Kibbe on Liberty: Episode 316 | Critical Theory Is Ruining Higher Education with Ilya Shapiro

In Episode 316 of Kibbe on Liberty, host Matt Kibbe engages in a profound conversation with constitutional scholar Ilya Shapiro from the Manhattan Institute. Released on January 22, 2025, this episode delves into the detrimental impact of critical theory on higher education, Shapiro’s personal experiences with cancellation at Georgetown University, and the pervasive influence of the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) industrial complex within American law schools and universities at large.

1. Introduction to the Episode

Matt Kibbe opens the episode by introducing Ilya Shapiro, highlighting Shapiro’s role as a constitutional scholar and his recent book, "The Miseducation of America's Elites". Kibbe sets the stage for a deep dive into Shapiro's experiences with academic cancellation and the broader issues plaguing higher education.

• Matt Kibbe [00:00]:

  "This week I'm speaking with Ilya Shapiro, a constitutional scholar at the Manhattan Institute. He's going to tell the story about his cancellation at Georgetown University. But also the DEI industrial complex that has taken over and corrupted American law schools. And what can be done to unweave that mess?"

2. Shapiro’s Background and Experiences

Shapiro reflects on the shift from virtual engagements during COVID-19 to in-person interactions and book tours, emphasizing the contrast in his professional life before and after his cancellation incident.

• Ilya Shapiro [01:02]:

  "My last book came out during COVID... Now my book tour is actually a tour of physical places and I get to come to studios to talk to people rather than just all do it remote."

3. Encounter with Woke Ideology

Kibbe recounts his first interaction with woke ideology during his time as a Tea Party activist, highlighting a pivotal moment on MSNBC with Don Lemon that revealed the shifting landscape of discourse around race and equality.

• Matt Kibbe [02:14]:

  "When I... said the word colorblind society... Don Lemon interrupted me... and it's like, that's not right, is it?"

This exchange underscores the growing resistance to classical liberal libertarian ideals in mainstream media and academic settings.

4. Evolution and Impact of DEI in Higher Education

Shapiro provides a historical overview of DEI’s rise within higher education, tracing its roots to the 1970s Bakke case and explaining how DEI initiatives have evolved from remediation of past injustices to enforcing diversity and equity of outcomes.

• Ilya Shapiro [04:01]:

  "States do have a compelling interest in educational diversity. And away we went."

He argues that critical theory has resurged with significant potency, profoundly subverting the foundational goals of higher education and legal institutions by undermining concepts like objective truth and due process.

5. Bureaucratic Corruption and Institutional Failures

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the bureaucratic mechanisms that facilitate the DEI agenda, moving beyond ideological battles to highlight systemic issues within university administrations.

• Ilya Shapiro [15:35]:

  "I think most of what the Department of Education does is unconstitutional, should be disbanded..."

Shapiro critiques the bloated administrative structures in universities, particularly focusing on the DEI offices, which he views as self-serving entities that drain resources without delivering tangible benefits to student welfare or educational outcomes.

6. Personal Story of Cancellation at Georgetown

Shapiro shares his harrowing experience of being targeted by cancel culture following a controversial tweet about Supreme Court nominations. This incident not only jeopardized his career but also exposed the inefficacies and partiality within university bureaucracy.

• Ilya Shapiro [09:03]:

  "I tweeted this out... and it is willful misreading and malicious misunderstanding of what I was saying to suggest..."

The ensuing investigation by Georgetown’s DEI office, which lasted four months, ultimately led to his resignation despite the technicality that spared his immediate employment.

7. Consequences and Institutional Response

Shapiro describes the aftermath of his cancellation, including the institutional reluctance to uphold free speech principles and the reliance on DEI policies to suppress dissenting voices.

• Ilya Shapiro [17:55]:

  "Any stakeholder... who not even is offended, but claims offense... puts you back into the star chamber, back into the inquisition."

He criticizes university deans and administrators for their amoral handling of such situations, prioritizing bureaucratic appeasement over genuine commitment to academic freedom and free expression.

8. Broader Implications for Legal Education and Society

The conversation extends to the broader ramifications of critical theory’s dominance in legal education, emphasizing the critical role lawyers play in upholding core American values like equality before the law and due process.

• Ilya Shapiro [42:32]:

  "Process became the process due to you based on where you are in the process. Privilege, hierarchy."

Shapiro warns that the erosion of these foundational principles within law schools threatens the integrity of the legal profession and, by extension, the American legal system.

9. Efforts to Combat the DEI Industrial Complex

Shapiro discusses various strategies and external pressures necessary to dismantle the entrenched DEI bureaucracy, including leveraging market forces, federal oversight, and policy reforms.

• Ilya Shapiro [31:28]:

  "It's like Soviet commissariats... making sure that it's politically correct. And that's gonna be very hard to root out."

He emphasizes the need for a concerted effort from multiple fronts, including legislative action and judicial oversight, to effectively challenge and reverse the DEI agenda’s influence in higher education.

10. Future Outlook and Shapiro’s Advocacy

Concluding the episode, Shapiro shares his optimism about recent developments and his active role in advocating for academic freedom. He hints at upcoming speaking engagements and initiatives aimed at promoting free speech and dismantling DEI-driven policies in universities.

• Ilya Shapiro [45:38]:

  "I doubt I'm going to be shouted down on this tour... knock it off. And my event... ended up being done well."

He remains cautiously optimistic, acknowledging the significant inertia within academic institutions but also recognizing the emerging pushback from various stakeholders advocating for a return to classical liberal values.

11. Closing Remarks

Matt Kibbe wraps up the episode by acknowledging Shapiro’s contributions and encouraging listeners to engage with his work, reinforcing the episode's central themes of intellectual freedom and resistance against ideological overreach in academia.

• Matt Kibbe [50:08]:

  "So give me a shameless plug for the work that you do at Manhattan and maybe something else that's of particular interest right now that your colleagues have done."

Notable Quotes

• Ilya Shapiro [04:33]:

  "The way that diversity preferences evolved... based on one justice's vote, Lewis Powell…”

• Matt Kibbe [07:42]:

  "I don't know what Shakespeare would think about that."

• Ilya Shapiro [15:35]:

  "It's, you know, it's all of these institutional failures and it's, you know, it's not a thorny problem of public policy or theory."

• Ilya Shapiro [31:28]:

  "It's like Soviet commissariats... making sure that it's politically correct."

• Ilya Shapiro [42:32]:

  "Process became the process due to you based on where you are in the process. Privilege, hierarchy."

Conclusion

This episode of Kibbe on Liberty offers a compelling exploration of the pervasive influence of critical theory and DEI agendas in higher education, illustrated through Ilya Shapiro’s personal trials and broader institutional critiques. Shapiro’s insights highlight the urgent need for restructuring academic policies and administrative practices to restore academic freedom, uphold constitutional values, and ensure that higher education serves its foundational purpose of fostering free and open inquiry.

For those interested in further exploring these themes, Ilya Shapiro’s book, "The Miseducation of America's Elites," provides an in-depth analysis of the issues discussed in this episode.

Listen to Episode 316: Kibbe on Liberty

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