Kibbe on Liberty: Trump Is Disrupting Everything, and Maybe That's Good

Host: Matt Kibbe
Guest: John Popola
Release Date: February 19, 2025
Podcast Network: Blaze Podcast Network

Introduction: Embracing Libertarian Values Amidst Disruption

In Episode 320 of Kibbe on Liberty, host Matt Kibbe engages in a profound conversation with John Popola, the head of Emergent Order. The discussion delves into the transformative impact of former President Donald Trump's disruptive approach on American politics and explores the resurgence of a pro-American, libertarian ethos that diverges from traditional partisan lines.

John Popola’s Journey: From Traditional Entertainment to Libertarian Activism

John Popola begins by sharing his transition from a career in traditional entertainment—working at MTV, Nickelodeon, and Spike TV—to founding Emergent Order, a libertarian media enterprise. He highlights his initial foray into political activism through creative projects like the Canes vs. Hayek rap battles, which aimed to challenge prevailing Keynesian economic narratives and promote Austrian economics inspired by figures like Ron Paul.

[02:12] John Popola: "We ended up talking about a lot of things, but the emerging counter revolution of loving America again and how that's impacting all of the disruption that's coming from President Trump, but more importantly, how being pro America is fundamentally a libertarian story."

Radical Discourse and Libertarian Storytelling: Bridging Economics and Culture

Popola discusses the creation of Radical Discourse, a platform that merges economic arguments with playful genres to make libertarian ideas more accessible. He emphasizes the importance of storytelling in libertarian philosophy, arguing that individual liberty and personal growth are central to compelling narratives.

[20:15] John Popola: "I think the hero's journey is very fundamentally libertarian... No pain, no gain, and taking responsibility and exercising your freedom."

Kibbe echoes this sentiment, describing himself as "the intellectual bastard of Ayn Rand and Jerry Garcia," illustrating the blend of rigorous philosophy and creative individualism that characterizes their approach.

Surviving the Pandemic: Strengthening Libertarian Resolve

The conversation shifts to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on libertarian organizations. Popola recounts the challenges Emergent Order faced, nearly facing extinction due to lockdowns, but ultimately emerging stronger by reaffirming their commitment to liberty-centered initiatives.

[04:16] Matt Kibbe: "It was like a Season of the Walking Dead, really."

Popola reflects on how adversity reinforced their dedication to fostering a freedom mindset, emphasizing individual agency and the belief that the world can evolve through free cooperation.

Libertarian Philosophy: Self-Help and Individual Responsibility

Discussions evolve around the philosophical underpinnings of libertarianism, particularly its alignment with self-help principles. Both Kibbe and Popola highlight the influence of Ayn Rand's Objectivism, advocating for personal integrity and responsibility as foundational to a free society.

[07:45] John Popola: "Objectivism is the best atheist religion you can adopt... It allows for real diversity."

Kibbe adds a personal touch by referencing Howard Roark from The Fountainhead as a role model who embodies the responsibility of owning oneself and living with integrity.

The New Trump Coalition: A Non-Partisan Movement

A significant portion of the episode examines the evolving political landscape shaped by Trump’s disruptive leadership. Popola notes the emergence of an anti-authoritarian coalition that transcends traditional partisan boundaries, incorporating liberals disillusioned with the "authoritarian woke insanity" on the left.

[25:09] Matt Kibbe: "We're not a blood and soil nation. We never have been."

This coalition includes diverse figures like RFK Jr., Elon Musk, and Jay Bhattacharya, presenting a unique blend of ideologies united by a common disdain for overreach and a desire for genuine American renewal.

Immigration and Cultural Identity: Battle of the Borders

Popola introduces Battle of the Borders, a rap battle that pits Harvard economist George Borjas against Bryan Caplan in a debate over immigration policies. This project exemplifies Emergent Order’s commitment to addressing complex social issues through creative and engaging formats.

[45:35] Matt Kibbe: "All my great grandparents had was grit."

The discussion highlights the nuanced perspectives on immigration, balancing economic data with cultural and emotional considerations, and challenging simplistic narratives like "open borders."

Media Influence and Corporate Agenda: Exposing the Complicity

A critical examination of the media landscape reveals how advertising revenue from the military-industrial and pharmaceutical complexes skews news narratives. Popola and Kibbe argue that major media outlets are complicit in perpetuating government and corporate agendas, undermining independent discourse.

[34:33] John Popola: "The pharmaceutical industry stopped advertising on news networks, they would almost instantly probably have to fold."

They advocate for decentralized media platforms like Radical Discourse to counteract this influence and promote authentic, unfiltered conversations.

Technology and Decentralization: The Double-Edged Sword

The duo explores the role of technology in empowering decentralized movements while also posing new threats through advanced surveillance and data manipulation. Popola expresses concerns about AI's potential to empower authoritarian regimes, echoing the duality of technology as both liberating and oppressive.

[75:26] Matt Kibbe: "There's two things. Radical democratization, the right to know, liberating in ways that we could never conceive of. Insanely dangerous technologies that authoritarians can use to oppress us."

They stress the importance of vigilance and responsible use of technology to safeguard freedom.

Future Projects: Expanding Libertarian Outreach

Looking ahead, Popola discusses upcoming projects, including a documentary on the transformation of high school debate culture, which he argues has been corrupted by postmodern critical social justice philosophies. The goal is to highlight the importance of open discourse and critical thinking in shaping future leaders.

[77:46] John Popola: "It's very of the same kind of concern as our radical discourse project. And that's going to be coming out, you know, probably towards the end of the year."

Conclusion: Embracing America Through Libertarian Principles

In closing, Popola advocates for a renewed embrace of American values rooted in individual sovereignty and personal responsibility. He critiques both left and right wing populist extremes while advocating for a multifaceted approach to fostering a free and prosperous society.

[56:58] Matt Kibbe: "We could do clean and beautiful chaos at the same time."

The episode concludes with an optimistic outlook on the potential for libertarian principles to guide America's ongoing revolution of free thinking and resilience against authoritarian trends.

Notable Quotes

• John Popola [02:12]: "We realized the emerging counter revolution of loving America again and how that's impacting all of the disruption that's coming from President Trump."
• Matt Kibbe [07:45]: "I'm an apologist for Rand and I don't think that the caricature has ever been fair that what I get from her is the responsibility of owning yourself."
• John Popola [25:09]: "We are not a blood and soil nation. We never have been."
• Matt Kibbe [20:15]: "Libertarianism in its best form could be a self-help philosophy that basically says look in the mirror and take responsibility."

Final Thoughts

Episode 320 of Kibbe on Liberty offers a rich exploration of the intersections between libertarian philosophy, cultural identity, and modern political disruptors. Through engaging dialogue and creative projects, Matt Kibbe and John Popola illustrate the enduring relevance of individual liberty and free discourse in shaping a resilient and prosperous America.

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