Podcast Summary: Kibbe on Liberty - Ep 331 | DOGE Has Found Billions in Waste. Now What? | Guest: Rep. Thomas Massie

Release Date: May 7, 2025

Introduction

In episode 331 of Kibbe on Liberty, hosted by Matt Kibbe from the Blaze Podcast Network, Matt engages in a candid conversation with Representative Thomas Massie. The discussion revolves around recent legislative maneuvers in Congress, focusing primarily on a controversial bill aimed at penalizing American citizens for boycotting foreign products, the influence of the House Rules Committee, budgetary concerns highlighted by the Department of Government Efficiency (Doge), and the broader implications for the upcoming midterm elections.

1. Controversial Boycott Legislation

Key Points:

• A proposed bill aims to fine or imprison American citizens who boycott products and companies from Israel, expanding existing laws to include boycotts endorsed by entities like the United Nations.
• Rep. Massie vehemently opposes the bill, labeling it unconstitutional and a violation of the First Amendment.
• The bill was originally part of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) and was slated for a vote but was postponed due to opposition.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Kibbe [01:08]: "This proposed legislation … would fine and even jail American citizens for boycotting products and companies in Israel. I thought that was the most insane thing I've ever heard."
• Rep. Thomas Massie [01:49]: "It's not constitutional. I mean, I think it's a violation at least of the First Amendment."

Discussion: Massie explains that the bill seeks to penalize individuals for economic actions taken against foreign nations, questioning the legitimacy and necessity of such measures. He criticizes the bill's inclusion in the NDAA, describing it as a common tactic to pass controversial measures under the guise of broader, essential legislation.

2. The Role of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Leadership’s Response

Key Points:

• Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene preemptively criticized the boycott bill on social media, effectively rallying opposition.
• Massie and Greene were among only a few congressmembers vocally against the bill.
• Leadership recognized the unfeasibility of the bill passing and subsequently postponed it.

Notable Quotes:

• Rep. Thomas Massie [04:07]: "It was epic. It had a graphic to go with the epicness."
• Matt Kibbe [06:37]: "I just assumed … that Mike Johnson was just going to use Democrats to pass the bill."

Discussion: Massie commends Greene for her proactive stance, highlighting the power of social media advocacy in halting legislative actions. He attributes the bill's postponement to the combined efforts of a few principled members and strategic public opposition.

3. House Rules Committee and Emergency Powers

Key Points:

• The House Rules Committee, led by Speaker Mike Johnson, has been manipulating rules to bypass legal requirements for voting on presidential declared emergencies.
• A controversial rule stating "a day is not a day" undermines the 15-day window mandated by the Emergencies Act for Congress to vote on the legitimacy of an emergency declaration.
• Massie criticizes this maneuvering as a violation of established laws, enabling the President to wield excessive power without adequate legislative oversight.

Notable Quotes:

• Rep. Thomas Massie [33:29]: "We've had none of those votes in the House."
• Matt Kibbe [38:27]: "I call it a show because it's on Blaze TV … but the kids … tell me it's a podcast."

Discussion: Massie elaborates on how the Rules Committee has embedded restrictive language into resolutions, effectively nullifying the legal timeframe for Congress to assess emergencies. This tactic prevents meaningful debate and oversight, concentrating power within the executive branch.

4. Budgetary Concerns and Doge’s Findings

Key Points:

• The Department of Government Efficiency (Doge) has identified significant wasteful spending in Congress, amounting to billions of dollars.
• Despite recognizing these inefficiencies, legislative actions such as passing continuing resolutions have undermined efforts to implement rescissions and cut unnecessary expenditures.
• Massie expresses frustration over the inability to address Doge’s findings effectively due to political gridlock.

Notable Quotes:

• Rep. Thomas Massie [10:36]: "There was a moment at the State of the Union address… it was almost like a dystopian future."
• Matt Kibbe [16:36]: "The window is closing."

Discussion: Massie reflects on President Trump's acknowledgment of government waste and the subsequent lack of action to rectify these issues. He underscores the challenges in translating Doge’s reports into tangible budgetary reforms amidst partisan resistance and procedural obstacles.

5. Pharmaceutical Companies and Regulatory Capture

Key Points:

• The conversation shifts to the entanglement between pharmaceutical companies and regulatory agencies like the FDA.
• Massie criticizes the Financial relationships where pharmaceutical firms fund the FDA, leading to potential conflicts of interest and compromised regulatory integrity.
• The PREP Act is highlighted as a means by which companies shield themselves from liability, exacerbating issues of accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Kibbe [25:55]: "That's not a market, that's something else."
• Rep. Thomas Massie [25:22]: "It should be completely banned … Any of the people who are authors of the paper are supposed to disclose any of the money that they got from those pharmaceutical companies."

Discussion: Massie advocates for restoring liability protections for pharmaceutical companies and enforcing transparency in financial disclosures among government officials. He argues that the current system fosters corruption and undermines public trust in regulatory bodies.

6. Emergency Powers and Tariffs

Key Points:

• President Trump has been utilizing emergency powers to impose tariffs, citing various crises such as issues within Hollywood.
• Massie defends the legality of these actions, referencing constitutional provisions that grant the President authority to declare emergencies and impose tariffs.
• The manipulation of emergency declarations is criticized as a method to bypass regular legislative processes.

Notable Quotes:

• Rep. Thomas Massie [29:16]: "These emergencies … Trump has endorsed Lindsey Graham's reelection. Now, which is interesting to say at least."
• Matt Kibbe [30:07]: "If you've watched anything coming out of Hollywood, it is kind of a. It's a crisis. It's maybe not an emergency, but it's garbage."

Discussion: The hosts discuss the strategic use of emergency declarations to enforce tariffs, questioning the genuine necessity of these measures. Massie emphasizes the procedural legitimacy but warns against potential overreach and misuse of executive power.

7. Concerns Over Midterm Elections and Republican Strategy

Key Points:

• Massie expresses apprehension about the upcoming midterm elections, fearing that current policies may alienate voters and lead to Republican losses.
• He criticizes the party leadership for failing to prioritize meaningful reforms and for engaging in policies that may ultimately hurt constituents.
• The conversation touches on the economic repercussions of unchecked spending and tax cuts, predicting detrimental effects on national debt and economic stability.

Notable Quotes:

• Rep. Thomas Massie [50:08]: "I am very worried about the midterms."
• Matt Kibbe [55:53]: "Yeah, so a political version of the argument you just made … you're drawing out a scenario where people are going to be hurting."

Discussion: Massie warns that the Republican Party's current trajectory, characterized by increased spending and regulatory measures, may backfire in the midterms. He advocates for fiscal responsibility and policies that align with voter interests to maintain political viability.

8. Optimistic Outlook and Closing Remarks

Key Points:

• Despite the challenges, Massie remains hopeful about the potential for positive change through determined advocacy and strategic legislative actions.
• He highlights the importance of supporting like-minded colleagues and leveraging congressional powers to implement reforms.
• The episode concludes on an optimistic note, emphasizing the resilience and commitment of certain members of Congress to uphold American principles.

Notable Quotes:

• Rep. Thomas Massie [56:04]: "I have hope. I have lots of hope."
• Matt Kibbe [56:50]: "I'm sold. I'm in. Thank you, sir."

Discussion: Massie reiterates his commitment to reducing government waste, preventing unnecessary wars, and promoting fiscal integrity. He calls for solidarity among Republican members to effectively utilize congressional powers and support executive initiatives that prioritize American interests.

Conclusion

Episode 331 of Kibbe on Liberty offers a comprehensive dive into the complexities of current legislative actions, highlighting the tension between executive authority and legislative oversight. Through a detailed discussion with Rep. Thomas Massie, the episode underscores critical issues such as unconstitutional legislation, regulatory corruption, budgetary inefficiencies, and strategic political maneuvering within Congress. Despite the obstacles, both hosts convey a sense of optimism grounded in the belief that principled advocacy and strategic actions can foster meaningful reforms and uphold the foundational principles of liberty and accountability.

Notable References:

• Department of Government Efficiency (Doge): Highlighted for identifying and reporting government waste.
• PREP Act: Discussed in the context of liability immunity for pharmaceutical companies.
• National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA): The legislative vehicle for the controversial boycott bill.
• House Rules Committee: Criticized for bypassing emergency declaration protocols.

For more insightful discussions and detailed policy analyses, tune into future episodes of Kibbe on Liberty.