Podcast Episode Summary: Ep 332 | The Pandemic Is Being Memory Holed | Guest: David Zweig

Podcast Information:

• Title: Kibbe on Liberty
• Host: Blaze Podcast Network (Matt Kibbe)
• Guest: David Zweig, Investigative Journalist
• Release Date: May 14, 2025

Introduction and Guest Background

In Episode 332 of Kibbe on Liberty, host Matt Kibbe engages in a profound conversation with investigative journalist David Zweig. The episode delves into the "colossal failure of the expert class during lockdowns," focusing particularly on the prolonged closure of schools and the complicity of journalists in perpetuating the crisis narrative.

Notable Quote:

[00:00] Matt Kibbe: "This week I'm talking with investigative journalist David Zweig about the colossal failure of the expert class during lockdowns..."

Early Reactions to the Pandemic

David Zweig recounts his initial response to the pandemic. Like many, he began by following the prevailing guidelines without significant skepticism. However, as the situation evolved, Zweig's background in science journalism and his inherent skepticism led him to question the prevailing narratives.

Notable Quote:

[05:22] David Zweig: "I sort of went along with everything, didn't question it too much... But very quickly, though, I felt like I wasn't seeing enough evidence behind what was going on in the media. It felt very hysterical."

Media Complicity and the Expert Class

Zweig criticizes the media and the established expert class for their handling of the pandemic. He highlights a systemic failure to revisit and acknowledge policy mistakes, contrasting this with the extensive scrutiny given to other major events like 9/11 or the Iraq War. The media, according to Zweig, framed the pandemic response in exculpatory terms, withholding critical analysis and fostering a narrative that avoided accountability.

Notable Quote:

[02:34] David Zweig: "...people generally are not inclined to go back and revisit their failures... there's a kind of apologia, if there is one, is framed as... we did the best we could."

The Issue of School Closures

A central theme of the episode is the prolonged closure of schools. Zweig discusses his deep dive into this topic, which became the focal point of his book, An Abundance of Caution, American Schools, the Virus, and A Story of Bad Decisions. He argues that the decision to keep schools closed was not supported by empirical evidence and was detrimental to children's education and well-being.

Notable Quotes:

[19:39] David Zweig: "We knew even in February that children were at extraordinarily low risk from the virus... the risk assessment is poor."

[24:49] Matt Kibbe: "Your general conclusion is this is a colossal failure of the elite class, a colossal failure of the media, colossal failure of public health..."

Media Suppression of Contrarian Voices

Zweig shares his experience with the New York Times, where he attempted to include critical perspectives on school closures in his reporting. The Times excised significant portions of his article that questioned the rationale behind keeping schools shuttered, effectively silencing critical discourse.

Notable Quote:

[12:32] Matt Kibbe: "You tell the story of a New York Times piece that you wrote where they excised the entire section about... you read the endnotes, the data on school notes."

[13:28] David Zweig: "So I did have a fair amount of content... And it was just completely black, barred from the piece. They just took all of it out."

Twitter Files and Social Media Censorship

The conversation shifts to the Twitter Files, where Zweig discusses his involvement and findings related to censorship of pandemic-related content on social media platforms. He reveals that both government agencies and social media companies collaborated to suppress information that contradicted the established narratives.

Notable Quotes:

[30:46] Matt Kibbe: "And this seems like a good place to bring up the Twitter files... you were one of the reporters that were given access to all of this very explosive conversations..."

[35:25] David Zweig: "Things that were true but undermining the official narrative... This is certainly the thing."

Institutional Incentives and Narrative Formation

Zweig delves into the structural and incentive-based reasons behind the widespread adherence to pandemic narratives. He argues that public health officials and media personnel were driven by institutional incentives that prioritized narrative alignment over empirical evidence, leading to policy decisions that were more about maintaining control than effectively managing the crisis.

Notable Quotes:

[39:36] Matt Kibbe: "Is compared to social media companies in a lot of ways, either it's self-censorship or some other kind of censorship."

[41:41] Matt Kibbe: "It's basically the same thing because the money is flowing... it's a fundamental corruption of the institutions that we depend on..."

Consequences and Accountability

The discussion moves toward the consequences of these failures, including the impact on individuals and the broader societal implications. Zweig emphasizes the importance of holding officials accountable, not necessarily through legal means, but by educating the public to prevent recurrence of such failures in future crises.

Notable Quotes:

[56:04] David Zweig: "I just don't think what happened was illegal in large. People can argue about it... What is important to me though is... creating a record of what happened."

[61:20] Matt Kibbe: "...this is why I'm still talking to you. I'm still wrestling with this..."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Matt Kibbe and David Zweig conclude the episode by reflecting on the shifting media landscape. Zweig notes the rise of new media outlets and the decline of traditional legacy media in effectively shaping public discourse. Both agree that fostering an educated public is crucial for mitigating the influence of institutional biases in future crises.

Notable Quote:

[63:10] Matt Kibbe: "But this is one of these light within that is seeing how, all right, there are other voices now coming through that are having a lot of influence."

[64:24] Matt Kibbe: "Your general conclusion is this is a colossal failure of the elite class, a colossal failure of the media..."

Key Takeaways:

• Media and Expert Class Failure: The pandemic response was marked by significant failures within the media and expert class, particularly in addressing school closures.

• Suppression of Critical Voices: Mainstream media outlets like the New York Times suppressed critical analyses that questioned official pandemic narratives.

• Social Media Censorship: The Twitter Files revealed a concerted effort to suppress information that contradicted the established pandemic narrative, often in collaboration with government agencies.

• Institutional Incentives: Public health officials and media personnel were influenced by institutional incentives that prioritized narrative conformity over empirical evidence.

• Need for Accountability and Education: Holding officials accountable and educating the public are essential to prevent similar failures in future crises.

Further Information:

• David Zweig's Book: An Abundance of Caution, American Schools, the Virus, and A Story of Bad Decisions is available for order at DavidZweig.com and SilentLunch.net.

• Connect with David Zweig:

  • Website: DavidZweig.com
  • Substack: silentlunch.net
  • Social Media: X Profile

This summary captures the essence of the conversation between Matt Kibbe and David Zweig, highlighting the critical examination of the pandemic response, media complicity, and the suppression of dissenting voices. For a deeper understanding, listening to the full episode is highly recommended.