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Kibbe on Liberty
Ep 341 | Government Is Captured by the Pharma Lobby | Guest: Del Bigtree
01:00:11
At this year’s FreedomFest in Palm Springs, Matt Kibbe caught up with Del Bigtree, host of “The HighWire,” who has devoted most of his career to researching the vaccine industry.
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- [00:01]
Kibbe
Welcome to Kibbe on Liberty. I'm live at Freedom Fest talking to Del Bigtree about the progress that Maha is making within the Trump administration, about RFK Jr. S decision to vacate and reconstitute the CDC Advisory Committee on Childhood Vaccination and reasons we should be optimistic about our potential of taking on the medical industrial complex. Check it out. Welcome to Kibby on Liberty. Dell, Good to see you, Matt.
- [01:07]
Del Bigtree
It's great to see you too. It's good to be here.
- [01:09]
Kibbe
Yeah. We've been working to do this for a while. I got to know you a little bit at the RFK confirmation hearing party celebration, whatever that was, and I've been itching to talk to you because as someone that would consider myself a free marketeer and a capitalist and a libertarian, I've always known about the regulatory capture between big corporations and federal agencies and how they corrupt the regulatory process and how they game the system against small guys. But I really, really got red pilled discovering just how intertwined pharmaceutical companies are with the regulatory agencies to the point where the agencies and the scientists inside the government actually have ownership rights into vaccines that they're pushing on people. And that to me is not capitalism. It certainly isn't libertarian. It's cronyism. There's an F word that we use for this that.
- [02:13]
Del Bigtree
Yeah.
- [02:14]
Kibbe
So you're kind of the guy and you've been the tip of the spear blowing the whistle on this stuff for years.
- [02:20]
Del Bigtree
Yeah. And I'll just say as a political background, I grew up a progressive liberal. My parents were like 60s hippies. So I grew up with ideas of fighting for freedom. My parents marched in Chicago in the 60s and were about freedom of education. So freedom was a huge part of what it meant to me to be liberal. And I remember right before I got into the vaccine issue, I was having a conversation with a friend of mine that was very outspoken libertarian in California, was always trying to work on passing a law like we can't have streetlights that have like radar on it that you get a ticket and there's no police officer there, there has to be a police officer. Just I was like, you know, you really dedicated this stuff. And I was like, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. And he says one day the Democrats are going to step on an issue you care about and then you'll realize how dangerous they are, how dangerous the nanny state is. And I was like, alright, whatever. I mean, I see some of that and then it wasn't. But you know, really like a month or Two later, I was working at the Doctors television show on cbs and I got into an investigation. I got an inside source at a whistleblower at the CDC and, you know, made a documentary ultimately about it, but around this vaccine issue. And I realized it just changed it really. That one topic as a journalist really, I think, led me to libertarianism. I guess if I was going to pick a title now, I'd be libertarian. I certainly up until having that title, I would say I'm politically marooned. I definitely just find issues with both sides. But to get to your point as a journalist, every once in a while you come on a story that is just so vivid and so outrageous that you just can't let it go. And I think I've spent more time investigating, researching vaccines than any journalist probably ever. I have spent nearly $30 million just suing the government in the United States to get information they're holding on vaccines. Since there's no liability, liability protection, which is not free market. It's not right. I mean, to say this product cannot be sued if it kills you or injures you or destroys your family or your child. It's outrageous. So you're taking away any market force to make this a safer product. You know, so all of those under, you know, underpinnings made me see that corporate capture is so perfectly represented by pharma. And it's not just capture of the government, which it is. It's the number one most powerful lobby in Washington. It's outspending oil and gas two to one. And so you start thinking, my God, we fight one wars in the Middle East.
- [04:59]
Kibbe
Even defense contractors.
- [05:00]
Del Bigtree
Yes, it's the biggest. It is the biggest there is. And so. And what I would say to audiences as I was traveling over the years is, what do you think they're buying for that? But it's not just government. They also are the number one advertiser in all of television. So they own the television. They own your news anchors. So this is the part people really don't understand is, well, if there was really an issue with vaccines, I'd hear it on the news. No, because that news is actually owned by the pharmaceutical industry that's making the vaccines. And so whether or not you're seeing vaccine commercials, everything is a commercial. I mean, news is simply the commercial for the world. They want you to see that you're, you know, that you're living in or that they want you to believe you're living in. So all of these things, it is. It is regulatory capture. It's educational capture, it's entertainment capture. It's every pharma has got it all captured. And then when you look at what happened with COVID you recognize that even Bill Gates saw the future of world dominance is what it's health. I don't think anyone saw this coming. Everyone was looking at central reserve banking or, you know, maybe even AI, like other certainly problematic issues. But how did they try to take over the world? How do they try and take complete sovereignty away from us Health and a forced vaccine? And so all of these, this issue, I think, and it's why I've been so passionate about it, I felt like when I first started talking about vaccines and put out Vax, the documentary in 2016, I said, Our government is now, I think you could argue fascist in the, you know, in the description of it being a corporate government. The corporations own our nation.
- [06:47]
Kibbe
Government control the means of production, or corporate control of government. It's kind of a chicken and an egg thing.
- [06:52]
Del Bigtree
Right, Right, exactly. And I thought of all the issues that we that are. Anyone that's now paying attention to the government saying, we've lost control of this thing. This is that monster. It's become that monster. Our founding fathers warned us about that. You be careful how you feed it, careful how much power you give it, because it is going to want to devour you. You're going to have to, you know, stay vigilant. Well, we have not been vigilant and we now have. We just, I think when Donald Trump dodged that bullet, I think we all dodged a bullet that day. That's what I say. Because they were going after free speech, saying, we are going to end misinformation. That's it. We were about to lose the First Amendment, our ability to have this conversation, which means you can't handle, you can't deal with any of your other rights. And so all of it was hanging the balance around health. And I've said, you know, from the moment I got into it, if I could pick one issue that if everyone understood it, we would all see we've lost control of our government. It's vaccines. Because unlike banking, which if you don't have any money, banking means nothing to you. I'm poor. Who cares? I don't care if the Bilderbergers or the Ross, who cares? But every person, whether you're poor, middle class or, you know, incredibly rich, you have been involved in a program that you were told, I'm making my child healthier by injecting this product. You have a government that's basically putting out rules saying you kids can't even go to school, so they're using coercion to make you do it. And if you found out that it had never been tested for safety, that it may be causing more injuries than it is improving health, then that would be the wake up call of all wake up calls. And that's why I have been focused on this issue.
- [08:30]
Kibbe
So the news, and you've worked with RFK Jr. For I don't know how many years, but you guys have been collaborating and working together. And I guess the news for people watching this is what RFK Jr. Is doing with the CDC Advisory Committee on Vaccines. And I don't know when he fired the 17 guys and has replaced them with eight guys. But that just happened, right?
- [08:57]
Del Bigtree
Just happened. I mean, I haven't been paying attention to days, but I would say roughly five days ago, fired all 17 and then two days later. So I guess it's is it three days ago announced the first eight selections and obviously mainstream media is going crazy. I've been getting called by New York Times, Washington Post, everyone, and they're trying to tell a story, I guess that it's overreach that does the HHS secretary. I mean, isn't this beyond what he should be doing? Is I guess how they're trying to approach this. And what I've been saying is, you know, I was his director of communications when he ran for president. I spent the last three years by his side, you know, navigating these incredibly outrageous media waters in using social media the best way we knew how. But from the beginning, he was running for president to end regulatory capture. I mean, that was what he ran on, right? That and healing the divide. Can we all come together that we're all getting screwed by the government? That if we can get rid of regulatory, if we can get it back in the people's hands, maybe we'll all get along better. We'll realize, you know, many things that we have in common. So when someone, and then, you know, when he got sworn in, I was in. I was lucky to be in the Oval Office when he got sworn in as HHS secretary. And I just, I think all of us, probably on his core team, which was, you know, Amaryllis Kennedy and Charles Eisenstein and Stephanie Speer. I know I stood there and thought this is better than if he'd won the presidency because this is why we wanted him here. We wanted the president so he could fix these rigor threads. Instead he gets to be completely focused. But when it comes to a cipher if you're talking about regulatory capture. ACIP is the beating, throbbing heart of corporate corruption. It's exactly at the core of the problem we have. You have a group of compromised scientists and doctors, 97, when they did an investigation, 97% of them did not fill out their conflict of interest forms because they're all working for pharma. And so they're sitting there, pharma is stepping up and saying, here's our next great vaccine for your kids. And they're rubber stamping every single one of them, which is why we now have a vaccine program for our children. That's somewhere between 16 to 18 vaccines given between 74 to, I think 90 doses. They're now looking at, in some of them by the time you're 18. And not one of them ever went through the gold standard safety process of being compared to a placebo group in a, in a randomized controlled trial prior to licensure. That is, I mean, I don't even call that fraud. I don't know if you call that treason. I don't know. I don't know what you call that. But they're skipping the process of safety that all pharmaceutical, you know, products go through. And every one of these ACIP committees, and they've changed out over the years, has rubber stamped every one of these vaccines without a safety trial. And we're giving this to perfectly healthy children. Cancer patients are being cared for more. A new cancer drug. They will deny you access if you're stage four and dying, saying, I heard this trial's looking really good. Can I just try that drug? I'm willing to die, I'm willing to sign a waiver that don't even affect your trial. I'm sorry, we've got to really establish that it's safe before we can let you take it. This person's dying yet. So they'll run safety trials for four, five, six years on a cancer drug, but you're perfectly healthy. One day old baby is being injected with a sexually transmitted disease and a vaccine that had a five day safety trial, apparently with no placebo group. That's not a safety study. What could you find in five days and only 140 kids in the trial? How do our children not deserve more than that? So firing a sip. That is exactly what he needed to do if he was going to stick with his word to the public, which is, I'm ending regulatory capture.
- [12:49]
Kibbe
Thank you for joining me today on.
- [12:50]
Unknown Host
Kibbe on Liberty and for being part of our fiercely independent AUDIENCE Every week, my organization, Free the People, partners with BlazeTV to bring you this show. My guests bring smart perspectives on everything from current events to timeless philosophical debates. If you like what you hear, go to freethepeople.org kol and support Kibbe on Liberty so we can continue to produce these honest conversations with interesting people. Now, let's get back to it.
- [13:19]
Kibbe
So you bring up something that I'm pretty passionate about. I'm a. I'm actually a stage four cancer survivor. I'm cancer free for over 20 years. And I probably wouldn't be here today had the FDA not finally approved one of the treatments that saved my life.
- [13:36]
Del Bigtree
Yeah.
- [13:37]
Kibbe
So I'm a big race to try guy. Yeah. And I and President Trump passed some modest legislation in his first term to do that. But the flip side of that, and it's the same principle, I should have a right to try, but I should have a right to refuse. It's about my bodily autonomy and my health care choices and how I make those decisions with my family and my doctor and whoever I trust. I might actually trust Grok more than my doctor right now. But that's a different issue because I think there's a lot of institutional capture that goes throughout the medical system. And for some reason, people that are good on one of those issues are bad on the other, including some libertarians that were conflicted and apologizing for vaccine mandates when it came to Covid. And I never understood that.
- [14:30]
Del Bigtree
Yeah. I called my nonprofits the Informed Consent Action Network, because at the heart of this whole conversation is informed consent. We had, you know, we put on trial 16 or so Nazi doctors who all destroyed, you know, innocent people's lives by doing experiments on them. Some of those experiments were vaccines, some of them were drugs, some of them were surgeries. And, you know, when we came out of that Nazi experience, we had the Nuremberg trials. And out of the Nuremberg trials came the Nuremberg Code, which was the largest advancement in modern medicine. It's said to be like the foundational principle of modern medicine. And the number one rule, the first rule is, you know, informed consent. That the informed consent of, of the patient is critical in a modern, you know, democratic society. That no use of force or coercion to do anything in medicine, take a product, have a surgery, is allowed, that you are supposed to be presented with all the potential benefits, all the potential side effects and adverse effects. And then at the end of it is choice, you know, you know, I'm going to consent or not. And so every vaccine mandate right now is A break with the Nuremberg Code. We are breaking that code that nations signed across this world after what happened in Nazi Germany, which is we will never force a human body into any medical decision. They get to make that decision. And I'll take it this far. If the government of the United States can inject you with a product that you have no choice over, if they can say you cannot go to work and make a living and feed your family without injecting this product into you, you are so far from a free citizen, I would say you have the exact same rights as a farm animal. And everyone that was forced to take a vaccine in Covid, you were just reduced to the same rights as a farm animal. And the fact that anyone is standing against our fight to say that cannot be. I have got to be allowed to decide whether whatever gets injected in my child or doesn't, whatever gets injected into me or doesn't, whatever I want to do in medicine or I don't. If we don't have that choice, then I don't think you have a single other right that matters.
- [16:53]
Kibbe
Yeah. Another red pill moment for me was realizing, you know, when Anthony Fauci was imposing all of these things, they weren't. Well, some were. There were explicit regulations that the Biden administration tried to impose on us. Eventually, the courts pushed back on employer vaccine mandates and stuff like that. But most of it was not explicit government mandates. It was soft power. It was recommendations that were coming out of the health agencies. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, the. The child vaccine schedule that the CDC recommends is not legally mandated.
- [17:36]
Del Bigtree
True.
- [17:37]
Kibbe
But there's not a single doctor or institution that would refuse to do it because it gets you in big trouble. Is that. Is that accurate?
- [17:44]
Del Bigtree
That's absolutely right. I mean, let's be clear. Most of your health and medical legislation happens at the state level. And in some states, even at the school board level, you know, there's depends on where you're at or the health department. So all the CDC does, all that is, is a recommendation. And look, in some states, they're not giving you all 72 vaccines to get to school. Some of them is like, well, we need at least these 50, you know, so it changes state to state. But as you're pointing out, the recommendation is taken like gospel. And to not follow that recommendation, you know, until. I mean, it's changing now, but up until Covid, in this moment, to not follow through, that was heresy. But now we know. I think it's something like 80. 80%, 85%. Of healthcare workers in America are refusing the next Covid booster, which means they're now defying the CDC recommendation. And I just saw, and it's not just in America, people will try to blame Robert Kennedy Jr. For this drop in, in vaccine confidence, but the same stats are coming out of England. Bobby Kennedy doesn't work in England. In England, the NHS, now 85% of healthcare workers all didn't get the flu shot this last year. So not even Covid. It's starting to affect the perspective of all of these vaccines. Like, wait a minute, I don't think I need this thing. I don't think it works very well. And frankly, even as a healthcare worker, I'm not doing this anymore. So we are now. I mean, we're where I dreamed we would be. When I started in 2006, I was the only one talking about this. People say you're crazy. You know, vaccines are the greatest thing ever. How could you possibly be saying negative things about it now? I would say, you know, we're, we're, we're reaching, you know, near, you know, 50%, maybe even majority. If you look at, If I think 80% of the people, 70% of the people that are eligible for the recent boosters turning it down, vaccine hesitancy amongst parents getting all the vaccines. They're saying, you know, over, over 50% are now delaying at least one of the vaccines or starting to infuse their own judgment into the conversation, which is driving doctors crazy and driving the CDC and the FDA crazy.
- [19:51]
Kibbe
I love the intellectual sloppiness of a blanket statement, vaccines save lives. And I'm like, which one? It's not the same thing. And obviously some vaccines, vaccines do save lives, I think, I mean, I, and, but I. This, this idea that if you just call it a vaccine, it must be like a religiously held belief that that must be taken. It's crazy.
- [20:21]
Del Bigtree
It really is crazy. And I, you know, the big statement that I would say that I spent the first seven years of my work attacking one word, safe, of one mantra that was being delivered constantly by the pharmaceutical industry, which is vaccines are safe and effective, full stop. And I just thought if you drove down the road and saw a billboard that said drugs are safe and effective, no one would believe it. You'd say, well, I know that's not true because I just watched, you know, Vioxx or FenBen or OxyContin cancelled. So some drugs, probably one I don't even know is injuring. So we're gonna find out about it. So I know it does injure some people. It's not always safe. So we talk about every drug is safe and effective. You can't make that statement. Yet they have been boldly making that statement on vaccines as though vaccines are made by some separate set of angels inside of the same money grubbing institutions that are making these drugs that lose multi billion dollar lawsuits for having lived about the safety of their product. Right. And so I would say we have had success now. Covid helped a lot. One thing Covid definitely taught people that I was trying to make clear and they couldn't wrap their heads around it, which is many vaccines don't stop transmission. Like, what do you mean? I was like, I mean, I know you think that word means I can't catch the disease. There are many vaccines, including polio. Polio does not keep you from catching the disease. It keeps you from having symptoms. But you can be a carrier and you can spread it, which has a whole set of problems that no one wants you thinking about. Right. But finally, since COVID one thing that is definitely understood by almost everybody is some vaccines don't actually protect me from catching the disease. Then, you know, now I have the work to do to show you why that may actually be problematic. Maybe even more problematic than if you. He didn't take it at all.
- [22:18]
Kibbe
So one of the new members of the advisory committee is Robert Malone.
- [22:24]
Del Bigtree
Yeah.
- [22:25]
Kibbe
And I know him and I know Martin Koldorff and those are the only out of the eight that I would recognize because it's not my profession, but one of his points. And Jay Bhattachary makes this point all the time. Even the safest vaccines have downside risks. And it should be informed consent, but also some sort of risk assessment, cost benefit analysis for any single medical treatment that you ever consider. And you know, if you're going in for surgery, you have a conversation with your doctor, well, what might happen, what might go wrong, is the risk worth the reward of treatment, fixing this problem? And that, that seems like a fundamental principle of medicine. But we weren't allowed to talk about the downside risks of the COVID vaccine. I'm sure you got. I don't know how many times you got canceled.
- [23:20]
Del Bigtree
Oh, yeah, I mean, I think I was one of the first ones canceled. I lost my, I think it was my YouTube channel first and then maybe Facebook. Like I started my show the High Wire on Facebook and, and X. And very early on, I think one of the reasons I was one of the first ones to bring on a scientist saying it looks like there's some sort of insert in this virus, which means it had to have come from a lab. That got me in all sorts of trouble. I think I was reporting that in February of 2020, and then I really got in trouble when I said, look, this virus is not dangerous for people that are under the age of 50, especially healthy. If you don't have any comorbidities, if you are not suffering from diabetes or obesity, you almost have. You really have a zero percent chance here of dying. And I said to my audience, definitely, you know, if we want to protect the elderly, that are the ones at risk. And let's be clear, that's what made this virus so interesting. Usually it hits the kids first. Kids weren't being affected by it at all. It was just these elderly people usually had three or four comorbidities. And I said to my audience, let's do the right thing and go out and catch this cold. That got me in all sorts of trouble. Yeah.
- [24:35]
Kibbe
Herd immunity was canceled.
- [24:37]
Del Bigtree
Yeah, it's the.
- [24:37]
Kibbe
During COVID as well.
- [24:39]
Del Bigtree
The concept of herd immunity of a natural infection delivery immunity. I mean, like, and these are the things, by the way, that really actually helped me in the work I was doing you, because it went so far. It even went beyond the orthodoxy that many doctors have been raised in, because every doctor with blood moving through their brains knows, well, wait a minute. Natural infection is. If you survive that, that's the best immunity you can have. And when Tony Fauci started discounting that, that the natural infection wasn't delivering immunity but the vaccine could, I think you lost 25, 30% of the medical, you know, think tank of the nation going, I know that's not true. Right. And if it is true, it would be the first time we had ever achieved that. And there's no way you've given this vaccine to enough people. There's been no study long enough to make that statement, that we have suddenly discovered the first vaccine in history that delivers, Delivers better, more thorough immunity than catching the disease itself to the date. And we now know this. And I was saying it all along, if you really want herd immunity, the best immunity comes from having the infection.
- [25:52]
Kibbe
So I've been producing this investigative series for BlazeTV called the COVID Up. And I'm probably about to tell you a bunch of stuff that you've known for a long time. But it was inspired by a conversation I had with jay Bhattacharya in 2020, where he sort of casually mentioned the explosion in research funds coming out of NIAID and NIH after 9 11. And I kept digging into that rabbit hole, eventually talking to Dr. Richard Ebright, who has the receipts where, you know, his argument. And he's been Fauci's nemesis since 2001, saying crazy things like this might be really dangerous. You know, bioweapons. Creating bioweapons agents in labs so that you can come up with solutions to those could in fact destroy humanity. And back then, by the way, the New York Times loved him. Richard Ebright was a hero for saying these things. And Fauci was dragged in front of congressional committees time and again because he was working with Republicans, specifically neoconservative Republicans like Dick Cheney, who tapped him to do this. And my read on what's happened was that this was not, this was not a public health thing. This was a military thing. This was an intelligence thing. And it was a combination of bureaucracy and power and money, typical things. And just this insane hubris, a fatal conceit, you might say, that they could in fact create all these things and map out a top down government strategy for stopping that. And lo and behold, they somehow end up in China mysteriously creating these things and you know, came out, slipped out.
- [27:55]
Del Bigtree
Can you imagine if we'd heard that we were, you know, partnered with Russia in Russian labs developing bioweapons? Yeah, I mean, I don't, I. It shocks me how really all of America has just looked the other way. China, I mean, like if there was one. I'm not into, I'm not into war war, I'm anti war, I always have been. But I would say, you know, of the superpowers that we have to look at our risks in the future. China sits at the top of the list with Russia, China, maybe North Korea, you know, Iran, but it's right there, if not the biggest one, because the intellectual property issues and the things and the ways it can dominate us, you know, in the market space. And the most shocking thing right now, Covid to this point, is that they are still trying to whitewash this lab leak story, which the CIA now backs, the FBI now backs everybody. And if you, in the emails that I've won through FOIA requests and many others have won, where we see this, the, the little, the same scientist that wrote the big paper saying it could only be natural origin, but they're complaining to Fauci. I'm 60%, I'm 70% sure this must have come from the lab. That's what they were saying right before they were forced to cover it up. I mean, you want to Talk about a cover up. That document of like 12 scientists saying this is natural origin and anyone that says otherwise is anti, scientific, anti. And we now know that that is a fraud that was scripted by Tony Fauci. And when you look at what happened.
- [29:34]
Kibbe
Here, Bought for by Tony Fauci.
- [29:35]
Del Bigtree
Purchased by Tony Fauci. And when you think back to how this went down, remember as soon as it all started breaking in China, what was Fauci doing? I mean, Trump's like, I don't know what's going on, but maybe we should shut down the airports, I don't want it. And everyone's like, oh, you're a racist. And Fauci's like, don't worry about it, there's no problem. Look the other way. It was literally like the kid with his hand in the cookie jar going, nothing to see here. Check out, cookies are still there. Like, everything's fine. You know, he was already in a cover up dance, like, oh, it's never gonna come here. It's not gonna be a problem. And then all of a sudden when it did, then he told the story. I have the answer. I've got a vaccine. Moderna we've been working with, let's focus on, oh, I'm the hero, I've got, dude, you're the reason we're in this situation. And now really the moment that, you know, and it was even before Trump came in at be stopped became really clear. This is clearly by, you know, most viewings of it, a lab leak. And this is what I would say to you, and this is what I think is the most terrifying thing about the world we live in. When, you know, you're living in some sort of dystopian nightmare when people stop acting normally and even more specifically, when journalists and news organizations stop acting in their own best interest. And what I mean is the moment we are all told as journalists, it looks like it was a lab leak. What would be the second question? And I'm telling you, I've never heard it. What's the second question? How do we know it was a leak? How do we know, know it wasn't on purpose? I haven't heard anyone, not at fox, not cnn, I don't even know podcasters that will ask that question. But it's the most obvious question we should be asking. If we know it came from that lab, how do we know it was accidental? Because it's a bioweap. And by the way, as you cover it up still, and everyone's like, well, there's another booster Shot. And they talk about it like we're in a natural environment of disease. We are not. It very much looks like we are dealing with a man made bioweapon that is still sweeping the earth as we know it. Someone in a lab took a coronavirus that could not infect human beings and gave it what made it one of the most infectious things possible in human beings by manipulating it. And then this spike protein looks like it kills us in so many brilliant different ways. It can cause heart attacks, you know, myocarditis, pericarditis, it can cause blood clots, it can cause, you know, cancer, it shuts down our immune system. I mean this thing's amazing and yet we're living in a world where it's like it's just a natural virus. It's not. It's not. It appears that we increased the evolutional journey of a virus maybe 100 years, we maybe gave it a hundred year advancement. And by the way, you think this is over that same virus that was advanced to infect us, advanced to be carcinogenic and you know, and thrombocytopenia and all of it and it's just started there. We've got a couple of vaccines that seem like they can block it a little bit, or maybe it's evolved so it's trying to survive, which it does, and not be too much infectious. But if it gets back into the lungs or if it does something, if it figures out something else in the space that it's in now, we could be screwed forever. And the fact that no one in our government is saying can we get with China now and find out what this thing is? Can we get with Ralph Baric who I think has his fingerprints on this. Can we actually depose or maybe even put Tony Fauci in jail and find out what he really knows about this thing so that we know what his hands happening inside of our bodies, so that we know how we. By the way, wasn't that the whole point of this? You were going to plan the future? Well, it's in us now. It's, we're, we're shedding it onto each other. What is it? We have to know that this is not a normal flu.
- [33:39]
Unknown Host
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- [34:16]
Kibbe
Yeah. And, and to, to take it a step further. And this, this is Senator Rand Paul's point, who's now the, the chairman.
- [34:24]
Del Bigtree
Yeah.
- [34:24]
Kibbe
Of the, of the key committee. And, and he's pretty doggedly pursuing this. The reason we have to know the answer to that. Well, there's a lot of reasons, but one is they're still doing this research. I know they're building more dangerous things in labs. And, and yes, we apparently have cut off the first funding for Eco Health alliance. But I don't think any of it stopped. I think it's still, still happening. And, and even Rand Paul, like when he was ranking member, he tells this story in the COVID up. When he was ranking member, he couldn't get the Democrats on the committee to cooperate with him. He couldn't get the Justice Department to cooperate him and he certainly couldn't get Homeland Security in the intelligence agencies to cooperate with him. We'll see what he does as chairman. But he's going to need the full cooperation of not just RFK Jr. And the health agencies, but the intelligence agencies.
- [35:20]
Del Bigtree
Yeah. Well, and I think that that's the part of the story that as I started, you know, I mean, my high wire, we probably had 250,000 views. We do one show a week, maybe 250,000 views a week going into Covid. But by the climax of COVID we were doing 7 million views a week because I had to jump on everybody. I knew how to make the sausage. So I was able to predict a lot of the things that we ended up seeing happen. But when you look at this whole moment, the gain of function, who was involved in it? The part that started changing for me was after I interviewed Scott Atlas. I had been thinking, and this is the problem when we say they. It's really a problem for all of us that we. One of the things I've been trying to say to my audience is will you stop with the cartoon version of evil? You know that Bill Gates is evil. If you make these people inhuman, then you don't know how to fight them. You have to know your enemy. You got to give them natural characteristics. What I had missed is I thought Fauci and Burks and Redfield were all kind of in lockstep. I now see it very differently. Burks had a totally different agenda than Fauci. Did. In fact, she's come out. And when I interviewed Robert Redfield, we never believed in the vaccine. In fact, Deborah Birx thought it was a joke. She thought the thing was a joke. They would never do anything. And I'm like, wow. So when you look back at it, you know, she was Department of Defense. You know, they all. They threw us off with a scarf. She's supposed to be wearing epaulettes like she had all the way up until that job, but they went with scarves and like, oh, she's like, like supermom. But she was really put in by the Department of Justice to I think, run that experiment that you're talking about. She was all the social distancing, really, the social mental game. How much will this population put up with? How ridiculous can we be? We were being groomed. We were being groomed and tested and studied. I mean, the part of it that will forever blow my mind is the stand up, sit down, mass note, mask thing. I mean, if there's one thing that should have triggered the intelligence of any living being. I remember I went to a. Into a restaurant up in. Up in like Oregon, a very liberal place. And I came through the door with two of my friends and the bartender screamed, like, screamed like, leaped over the bar. You're a mask. I'd forgotten. Like, we're walking around with the mask. Okay, whoa, whoa. People like looking over and runs over and apparently. And like, literally I was like, okay, I got it, I got it. Hey, man. Like. Like he's got cancer or something. I don't know. And then he grabs three menus, sits us at the table right next to the door. I sit down. He says, now you can take your mask off. Yeah, I'm just like. I mean, I was doing interviews. I would always say, can you explain to me how that makes sense to you? What do you mean? I was like, how? What do you think is how? What in your mind is the science that when I'm standing through feet taller here, not wearing the mask, just putting everyone at risk, but now that I'm sitting here, I'm not, I can take it off. How are you making that make sense? He's like, that's just the rules, man. I don't question it. I'm like, boy, dude, you gotta question that. But that's it. That was an experiment. How far I think it could go. She didn't care whether they got a vaccine across, but the vaccine had a powerful agenda. And I do believe it was a huge part of why. Why Covid was blowing up to be what it was. They wanted every adult into a vaccine passport. They wanted mRNA. They wanted to put the billions of dollars in mRNA because it was the future. It was the dream of vaccine makers for a century. If we could make a vaccine overnight, not have to guess, not have to grow it in egg culture, guess what? The next year's flu season. If we had a product that we could go, the flu's here, let's check it. Oh, throw it in the computer. Fatty lipid, boom. The vaccine's ready tomorrow. Now we have strong flu shots that are exactly for the strain. That's their dream. But it was killing animals in animal trials for 20 years. Maybe if we throw a couple billion dollars at it, we'll figure out that problem.
- [39:15]
Kibbe
So Anthony Fauci, and I'm trying to figure out what this is. So you look at the World Economic Forum and the way that global health agencies kind of embrace the Chinese model, like the most authoritarian, the most anti human model. Supposedly that's where the idea of lockdowns originated. But if you look at all this stuff and you read what Anthony Fauci was actually writing with the now thrown under the bus, David Morens, he wrote this article that I quote all the time in the journal Cell, and it's late 2020, I believe is when he published it. But the end of the article is this sort of techno authoritarian manifesto about how the best scientists, in cooperation with the best political leaders, will reimagine society from the top down. And they're going to change the way we gather, they're going to change the way we eat, they're going to change the way that we get health care and how we live. And they use this phrase, we need to bend modernity, like is the most dangerously authoritarian. And Frederick Hayek would call it a fatal conceit.
- [40:34]
Del Bigtree
Right.
- [40:35]
Kibbe
So it's like socialism 2.0, but this version is just rule by experts. And we're all, as you said, we're guinea pigs, we're farm animals, we're going to be herded and we're going to be groomed to just sort of live with our overlords determining every aspect of our lives.
- [40:54]
Del Bigtree
Yeah.
- [40:54]
Kibbe
So part of it was like bureaucracy and money and gaming the system and corporate capture. But I think there's something more dangerous going on. I think they're starting to believe their own bullshit.
- [41:07]
Del Bigtree
Yeah, well, I think what I mean, I would say if you look back through, you know, history, religion used to do this. We use religion to keep you in line, you know, and you know, whether it's crusades or something like that, this is no different. In fact, I think you can understand it more if you see medicine as a religion. You've already sort of alluded to that already.
- [41:31]
Kibbe
I have a Fauci prayer candle.
- [41:33]
Del Bigtree
Yeah, right.
- [41:34]
Kibbe
So they made it a very religious faith.
- [41:37]
Del Bigtree
Yes. And so if you don't do it, you're a heretic and you're going to get us all killed. You're born with an original sin. Your baby has to be vaccinated on the very first day that it enters this earth. It is given a sexually transmitted disease called hepatitis B. We will call child protective services on you if you try to leave that hospital without getting that vaccine with your child. I just spoke about this yesterday. You know, they, they will say, well, we have to protect against. If mom had hepatitis B, we test every mother, and we know for a fact that only 0.5% of the mothers that give birth every year have hepatitis B. So you're giving this vaccine to 99.5% of children that never needed it. And that's just the beginning of the insanity. And a product, as I said, hepatitis B had a five day safety trial, no placebo group. Tons of side effects have been shown over the years, including multiple sclerosis, swelling of the brain, encephalitis, paralysis, Guillain Barre syndrome. And the entire vaccine program is built on a religion. In fact, it's the holy grail of modern medicine. And doctors just go along with it. Their clergy, their pope is Tony Fauci is Francis Collins. Whoever's dictating this stuff now, whatever the CDC says, that's what the Catholic church just stated. That's what we do. We do not question it. And I did a whole show on a meeting that the World Health organization organized in 2019, right before the pandemic in December in Geneva, brought in all of the best scientists in the world to discuss how do we stop vaccine hesitancy in the middle of it. Heidi Larson is the lead psychologist for the whole. And she said, our problem with vaccine confidence is we have a very wobbly front line now. Our doctors don't know how to handle these more in depth questions that are coming through the door from parents. And she said, because, let's admit it, she says to the whole room of 150 scientists, a doctor or nurse is lucky if they had a half a day education on vaccines. And so it's exactly how religion works. Starve you of actual information, make you believe in a faith that all you can Say is you have to have faith. I can't even explain it to you, right? And all I know is somewhere in my clergy or somewhere in the God of this thing, the studies were done. I know for a fact there's a mountain of science that, you know, there's literally a mount in this religion of studies have been done on autism. I can assure you that because I've had on the stand Stanley Plotkin, the godfather of the vaccine program, admit that he went on assumptions that he doesn't have science. The TDAP vaccine doesn't cause autism. I have his co author on the biggest vaccine book that is called Plotkin on vaccines. His name is Stanley Plotkin. They call it the bible of vaccinology. Katherine Edwards is another author. I have her on the stand under oath and being listed. You said that TDAP doesn't cause autism. Do you have any science to make that statement? I don't. You said that, you know, and hepatitis B doesn't cause autism. Do you have one study to prove that it doesn't cause autism? I do not. It's like six or seven vaccines. So we in the work I've done, if I, if CNN would ever report on it or even FOX would allow me to show you. Let me play you your. Literally the pope of your religion in Stanley Plotkin under oath is saying this mount is fictional. It doesn't exist. It's never been done. Robert Kennedy Jr. Is absolutely right. They have never proved that vaccines don't cause autism. And so what you're left with is the oral history of all of the injuries that have been out there. Real human beings talking to each other. And 80% parents with autistic children believe the vaccine caused it. They watched it with their own eyes. They witnessed it. In any crime, the witness is the most powerful thing you have. And in this case, they took the vaccine out of the lineup and keep saying we're looking for the killer here, but we refuse to put vaccines in there, even though 80% of the people as witnesses said it was the vaccine. And so the whole world is changing around this now. But to get back to it, that's a religion. When I have to have faith that my doctor was trained well enough to understand how vaccines work. They weren't. That I have to have faith that my doctor is doing his own research and doing studies to make sure that the new vaccine, like Covid, that he understands or she understands how it works, what the mechanism is that my doctor was trained on the immune system and understands when I'm talking about My child has had some rashes and things that makes me think their immune system, that they understand what that is. I have to have faith that the CDC is doing proper studies and demanding double blind placebo studies. That the advisor. I have to have faith that the advisory committee on immunization practices made sure for sure that the gold standard placebo trials were done for our childhood vaccine, at least at the level of cancer patients, is being cared for. I have to have faith in all these things. And when you have to have that much faith that your government, when it's mandating something, has made sure it's perfectly safe and it's proven that with that much faith, let's call this what it is. It is the religion of our times. Modern medicine is the most powerful religion in the world. And the WHO and the WEF and all of the health departments of the world are trying to use that to control us.
- [46:59]
Kibbe
I borrow Hayek's phrase, I call it scientism.
- [47:02]
Del Bigtree
Amen.
- [47:03]
Kibbe
Because it is sort of a techno scientistic authoritarianism. Let's talk about the good things that are happening.
- [47:11]
Del Bigtree
Okay, let's do that.
- [47:13]
Kibbe
Because I love the karma of Jay Bhattacharya sitting in the same chair that Francis Collins was probably sitting in when he rattled off that email that he wanted a devastating takedown of this fringe epidemiologist.
- [47:31]
Del Bigtree
Yeah.
- [47:32]
Kibbe
So we have, you know, we have, we have a seat of power. We have Marty McCary, we have obviously RFK Jr. We have Jay Bhattacharya and a bunch of other guys that you probably know better than I do. And some of the activists in Maha world are frustrated that things aren't happening enough. But my read is that things are happening and it's a pretty dramatic shift in culture and taking on the medical industrial complex, whatever we want to call this thing, it's a monster. Like it's wrapped its tentacles into everything, not just our government, but globally.
- [48:11]
Del Bigtree
I hope I've just described what I think is the biggest monster in the world.
- [48:15]
Kibbe
Yeah.
- [48:15]
Del Bigtree
I mean, when I say the most powerful lobby, not just America in the world, you know, WHO Health used to take sovereignty away from every nation in the world. We were all run through this monkey game by Health, by, you know, so it's the biggest monster there is that, that, you know, can one man go in and shift the entire, you know, corrupted culture? You know, maybe can he do it in three months? You know, I think we're, that's a.
- [48:48]
Kibbe
That'S a pretty taller.
- [48:49]
Del Bigtree
It's a pretty tall order. And, and so, but Look, I'm warming to the extremists in the movement because every movement needs that, right? Every movement needs the inertia from they keep us on us uncompromising spirit to keep us honest. But every movement also needs the guy that can get through the door, the woman that really comes across as reasonable. And that extreme energy sort of makes politicians say, just make sure that person doesn't come through. I'll listen to you. So it opens the door for people like Robert Kennedy Jr. That can navigate this treacherous chess game. I know Bobby, at least that I've watched him for three years. I see the things made about he's compromised or those. And I can tell you that, that that man is uncompromisable. The things that would shake most people that happened, the stories that would come out, you know, for most of us would be so horrific. You're like, I give up, I quit. I can't handle this. It's just dragging my family through the mud. I mean, he cares about his family, but he's unshakable when he has his eyes set on something. And I had more issue with the sort of uncompromising focus and spirit when we were trying to get him confirmed. It was so treacherous there. You know, a lot of the media or a lot of people were saying, oh, he's a shoo in. I knew for a fact he wasn't. I knew that if we didn't get Cassidy, this thing was over. This entire three year journey was going to come up short. And so to have the attacks. And why isn't he talking about vaccine? Was it why food, why sugar now? I mean, all of a sudden, now he's like, no, all of a sudden he has a conversation that he can give that is getting to all mothers in America isn't triggering their religious belief in vaccines right now and they're getting on board. He has a pressure we've never been able to achieve just in the vaccine space. And so how can you not see the strategy here? You know, and it was dangerous to have his own movement against him. On some level. I didn't want Donald Trump to see it. I don't want, I wanted Donald Trump to think, I'm winning this whole sector if I bring in Bobby. And you're all kind of starting to fight with these, each other. You're not looking like the best group, you know, voting block that I need on my side. So all those things mattered then. Now that he's in, I think that there's a place to say why any MRNA vaccine Why, why is Covid still out there at all? How is all the. I know you've seen as many studies as I have. This isn't. We're not talking one flaky study, two studies, I mean, top, you know, universities around the world are giving us a hundred different reasons to get the hell away from this. Certainly the COVID vaccine and probably MRNA technology altogether. But, you know, so I understand the demand, but the one thing I want to make clear, and this is something that Bobby and I talked about, you know, before he ever got in, if you ever get there, we have got to do the science and a way that everyone can see it and everyone can, you know, understand it. So if he just brings in all anti vaxxers, if he just wipes out the schedule himself, which some people are asking to do, that's how you make a sand painting that is going to blow away whenever either Trump fires him or the next presidential campaign happens. And we didn't achieve anything. We had a pause button. Bobby Kennedy does not want this to be a pause button on science. What he wants is to reinstate the scientific method and he wants to re evaluate the vaccine program because we have a problem. Marty Macri might be saying every vaccine from now on will get a double blind placebo trial. But that doesn't fix the problem that every vaccine our children are getting right now never had one. We don't know if they're safe. And anyone, when the pharmaceutical industry or any doctor tries to say, of course we know they're safe. We have been delivering these vaccines for 20 to 50 years, depending on which one you're talking about, and that proves they're safe. Oh, so you're going to use the health of our children as your evidence for how safe these vaccines are. Then let me point out the rise from 2012% chronic illness, either neurological or autoimmune disease in the 1980s when we were getting 10 vaccines, to now 50 to 60% chronic illness in America now that we're getting 72 vaccines, autoimmune or neurological disorder, more than 50%, more than 1 in 2 children now have immune systems attacking their own bodies. We're the only mammal this is happening to on the earth. We're the only mammal that is the devolving. Suddenly our bodies cannot walk this earth without attacking our own, you know, cells in our own body. Something has triggered a serious mistake. And I would argue it's the one product that does what? Tries to trick your immune system. Tries to trick your immune system into thinking you've had a disease and we don't trick it one time or 10 times or 20 times or 50 times, 72 times. We are tricking immune system of our children. Then, wow. We are shocked that their immune systems are now confused and are attacking their own bodies. And so they'll say, oh, so you're saying that that drop in health is caused by vaccines? I say, well what I am saying is you can't say that you didn't cause it and you can't say that kids are healthier, which is what you should have been able to do if vaccines were safe. And you can't. This is the sickest nation of children in the world. It's the sickest generation generation of children we've ever seen in this country. And that drop from 12% chronic illness to 54 or 60% chronic illness, depending on the stats, is the greatest decline in human health in recorded history. Never have we seen this before. And I put that at the feet of every doctor that was in charge while that was happening. Every regulatory agency, every fda, cdc, every HHS department. I don't care if it's fluoride in our water. Maybe it is. Maybe it's the pesticides and herbicides that are sprayed on 90% of our crops. Maybe it's the antibiotics that are in our beef. Maybe it's the non stick pan that had forever chemicals in it that you know that we've been eating often since the 70s. Or maybe it's a combination of all those things. But whatever it is, every one of those things was looked at by our regulatory agencies and said to be safe. So whatever this environmental toxic attack is coming from, it's going to lay at the feet of the people that have been telling us, just trust us.
- [55:33]
Kibbe
Ultimately your argument is that the scientific process should be allowed to ask the questions you just asked and anything less.
- [55:43]
Del Bigtree
Than that, it shouldn't allow for it. That is the scientific process. If there cannot be a question, it is a religion. If there's a question, it's science. And when you catch anyone in science attacking the question, then you now know you are in a very, very dangerous place. And you and I both know we've been living in that place for decades. And something J. Bhattacharya, God love him, really, really so eloquently talks about this all the time. Let's get back to the scientific method. No one should be attacked for asking a question. You should be excited to defend your product. You'd be excited to defend your hypothesis.
- [56:23]
Kibbe
Yeah, and that, and that's the mantra that I hear from Jay and RFK Jr. And everything in that wing. And I'll close out the optimism. My favorite Senator Rand Paul and my favorite Congressman, Thomas Massie.
- [56:39]
Del Bigtree
Yeah.
- [56:40]
Kibbe
I recently had them on the show separately, and they both said the part of the Trump administration they're most optimistic about is what we're talking about, that there's a lot of cool things happening, a lot more to be done, like we've just gotten started, but there's an opportunity here to make a difference.
- [57:01]
Del Bigtree
There really is. And all I can say is, you know, Robert Kennedy Jr. Is the only guy that could pull this off. And does that mean he is going to pull it off? It's sort of like a 007 or a SEAL team. We've sent a small group of people into a totally corrupted city. We're hoping we can somehow fix it from the inside out. There's no one more dedicated. There's no more uncompromising. And if you see his words aren't matching up to this is a man who believes in action, and I wish we would spend a little less time focused on the words that are coming out. Obviously, he's trying to dance a line and he's trying to win over the half of the country that need to agree with the science when they see it, or none of this will mean anything. If he only has 50%, you know, enrollment in whatever science has done or whatever changes are made, then this all flips on an election. What he's trying to do is say to all the pro vaccine people, trust me, I am not here to destroy your vaccine program. I'm trying to make it as safe as it can be. And to all of those that don't believe in vaccines, trust me, I am trying to talk to that side. I believe when I show the science, we are all actually going to have a kumbaya moment. And I'm going to say whatever I have to say to get you all into a room for that moment to happen.
- [58:29]
Kibbe
Yeah. So how do people find you and your program and all the stuff you're doing?
- [58:35]
Del Bigtree
The best way right now is thehighwire.com where I do my show every Thursday, talking about all these issues. As I said, a lot of the support we get for that show funds the legal cases that we bring. So we're the most litigious, I think, nonprofit in the health freedom space, certainly the most successful. We've won against fda, nih, cdc, hhs. We won back the religious exemption for vaccines in Mississippi. And when you heard that the FDA wanted to hold onto the Pfizer data for 75 years. It was our lawsuit that forced them to release all that in a year. We won the Moderna data. We won one the V SAFE data. So that show and that work we do, we get to celebrate what we're achieving on the legal cases, but it also helps fund all of that. And that and the basis of that is my nonprofit informed Consent Action Network. So but the high wire, you can see everything that I'm doing there. Cool.
- [59:27]
Kibbe
I really appreciate you joining me.
- [59:29]
Del Bigtree
Appreciate it.
- [59:31]
Unknown Host
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