Ep 346 | Ron Paul's Legacy Can't Be Overstated | Guests: Tom Woods, Bobby Gray, Justin Amash, and Chip Roy

Summary

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Kibbe on Liberty Ep 346: "Ron Paul's Legacy Can't Be Overstated"

Host: Matt Kibbe | Date: August 20, 2025
Guests: Tom Woods, Bobby Gray, Justin Amash, Chip Roy

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Overview

In this special live episode recorded at Ron Paul’s 90th birthday celebration in Lake Jackson, Texas, Matt Kibbe gathers prominent figures from the liberty movement to discuss Ron Paul's transformative influence on their lives and on American politics. Through intimate and energetic conversations with Tom Woods (author and economist), Bobby Gray (crypto entrepreneur), Justin Amash (former congressman), and Chip Roy (current congressman), the episode explores Ron Paul’s unique legacy—his integrity, his impact on sound money and foreign policy debates, and the way his fearless advocacy for liberty redefined civic activism and inspired a new generation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tom Woods: Personal Impact and Movement Building

[01:09 – 11:16]

• Early Encounter & Influence: Tom Woods shares his first brush with Ron Paul at age 16, spotting a 1988 presidential bumper sticker, which sowed seeds of curiosity. He describes periodically checking on Paul’s reelection, taking comfort in his continued Congressional presence.
  "Every two years, I would check to make sure Ron Paul had been reelected...knowing he was still there made me feel better." — Tom Woods [01:59]

• Unanticipated Movement: Woods recounts the explosive, unexpected nature of Paul’s 2007-08 presidential campaigns—the "End the Fed" chants, the renaissance of Austrian economics, viral videos, and palpable excitement that lifted both Ron Paul and Woods’s own public profile.
  "I couldn't have predicted...there’d be a renaissance of Austrian economics...But it definitely gave me a boost in a number of ways." — Tom Woods [03:10]

• Grassroots Revolution: He notes how social media democratized liberty messaging, bypassing traditional gatekeepers and making radical ideas—sound money, non-interventionism—mainstream for new audiences.
  "It meant that if you had an idea that wasn’t somewhere between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole, you might have a fighting chance of being heard." — Tom Woods [06:54]

• Paul’s Sincerity and Media Hostility: Woods highlights the infamous 2012 MSNBC "missing Ron Paul" incident and the Ron Paul blimp—expressions of how the establishment tried to ignore or diminish Paul, but the grassroots found their megaphone.
  "He’s changed nothing about himself...He doesn’t flatter people. He doesn’t say what focus groups want him to say." — Tom Woods [09:31]

• The Future of the Legacy: Woods is optimistic, seeing liberty-minded voices gain more exposure not by compromise but through being interesting and authentic.
  "Our folks are getting more and more exposure...not by compromising, but by being interesting, informed, entertaining, lively, and different." — Tom Woods [10:35]

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2. Bobby Gray: Sound Money, Crypto, and Testifying with Ron Paul

[11:49 – 22:09]

• Genesis in Honest Money: Bobby Gray’s journey began in 2008, tracing societal issues to monetary policy, leading him from gold and silver to founding American Open Currency Standard. He credits Dr. Paul as a catalyst.
  "Every rabbit hole I went down...it was always the same thing. It was always money." — Bobby Gray [12:12]

• Crypto Evolution: Realizing the digital future, Gray transitions from metals to launching "Texas Coin," a geographical, state-centered crypto project.
  "If we're going to be successful with our mission of honest money, we have to use the tools of today's times." — Bobby Gray [12:45]

• First Meeting & Testifying: Presents a Ron Paul coin at FreedomFest (2009) and later is invited by Dr. Paul to testify at his final subcommittee hearing on sound money in 2012—a pivotal moment.
  "I got my five minutes of fame...telling the federal government exactly what we thought about what they’ve done to money so far and to stay out of it." — Bobby Gray [14:48]

• Cautious Optimism on Crypto Legislation: Although the regulatory climate has improved, Gray expresses skepticism about government intervention and Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs).
  "It's great that that's completely changed. It's, it's, it's absolutely wonderful. But I don't trust any of it." — Bobby Gray [17:14]

• Crypto as the New Liberty Tool: Gray sees decentralized, transparent digital currencies as the next essential tool for liberty and honest trade, while noting the unique challenge for traditionalists to accept a non-physical monetary system.
  "We actually have a currency, a monetary system, that is completely transparent...and that's a powerful concept." — Bobby Gray [18:55]

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3. Justin Amash: Sincerity in Politics & Hopeful Populism

[22:52 – 35:07]

• Finding a Role Model in Paul: Amash was inspired as a young man by Paul’s 2008 campaign, finally seeing a candidate who embodied the principles he valued—and did so as an authentic, imperfect person.
  "He was who he was. And he presented himself as a human being with all the greatness of Ron Paul and also all the flaws. And I think that was beautiful..." — Justin Amash [25:14]

• Dr. No and Congressional Isolation: Discusses inheriting the "Dr. No" persona along with Thomas Massie, noting that Paul’s unyielding independence was once unique but now is somewhat less lonely for liberty-minded legislators.
  "They made fun of him. Dr. No was not a compliment...But by the time that you and Thomas got there...it was different." — Matt Kibbe & Justin Amash [26:22]

• Politics as Platform, Not Solution: Amash argues that while Congress can’t save the country, principled voices must stand as beacons for others to inspire activism and maintain hope.
  "Congress is not going to save us...But it is important to have those people standing there standing up for principles." — Justin Amash [29:19]

• Making Liberty Cool Again: On the evolution from the Ron Paul Revolution to the Tea Party and MAGA, Amash expresses belief that the younger generation can be won over to hope-filled, community-oriented libertarianism grounded in great philosophical traditions.
  "What Ron Paul presented was much more hopeful than what we see today...There will be room for that next generation to embrace that hope again." — Justin Amash [31:18]

• Hope and Positivity as Core Legacy: Echoing Daniel McAdams, Amash stresses Paul’s optimism and trust in the American people as the central legacy he seeks to carry forward.
  "He was hopeful. He loved the American people, he trusted them, and he had hope that we had this ability to work things out for ourselves." — Matt Kibbe [32:29]
  "He really did change my life. I’m not sure that I would have served in Congress the way I did if he didn’t exist." — Justin Amash [34:35]

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4. Chip Roy: Internalizing Ron Paul’s Lessons on Spending, War, and Localism

[35:34 – 56:05]

• Texan Roots & Political Awakening: Roy traces his journey to the ‘90s, when Paul’s challenges to federal power, war, the Fed, and spending drew his focus—principles now more widely echoed in DC, even if mostly privately.
  "How many times every day I hear the phrase ‘Ron Paul was right.’..." — Chip Roy [36:28]

• Connecting Fiscal Policy and Liberty: Roy argues that unchecked spending and the growth of bureaucracy are fundamentally at odds with freedom; persistent attitudes in Congress still favor "spend now, worry never."
  "You're taking all of that and you're giving life and you're giving license to this massive bureaucracy that then undermines our ability to function and live free." — Chip Roy [37:54]

• Foreign Policy Shift and the ‘Forever Wars’: Roy shares his own evolution from post-9/11 hawk to non-interventionist, having witnessed Iraq’s failures as a Hill staffer; credits Paul’s courage in raising "blowback" and non-intervention arguments.
  "There was an entire industry...that was not good for our national security or...our help as a nation." — Chip Roy [41:00]

• Blind Spots Among Conservatives: He and Kibbe bemoan the GOP’s historic refusal to rein in defense spending—Paul’s great heretical stance—while hoping current efforts to reform the military-industrial complex can break old cycles.
  "For some reason, we will give DOD a blank check, assuming that that big bureaucracy wouldn’t possibly waste the money..." — Matt Kibbe [45:07]

• Natural Disaster Response and Federalism: Roy highlights local resilience in the aftermath of Texas floods, arguing that community action—not endless federal bailouts—should be the default after disasters.
  "The federal government is not an ATM every time there’s a disaster...We can solve this problem." — Chip Roy [49:10]

• Incremental Victories & Reason for Optimism: Despite setbacks, Roy points to small gains in transparency, Medicaid reform, and reauthorization fights as evidence the liberty movement is making tangible progress.
  "These seem like crumbs, but they’re incremental gains against an establishment that’s meant against the average American." — Chip Roy [53:07]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sincerity as a Revolutionary Act in Politics

  • "He doesn't seem like a revolutionary guy, but in politics, sincerity is hard to find." — Matt Kibbe [09:56]

• Ron Paul as the Reluctant Prophet

  • "He knew he was speaking something that he believed in, and you could tell...he wasn’t worried about the appearances." — Justin Amash [25:41]

• Money & Freedom: The Core Battle

  • "We have a monetary system that is completely transparent...We have the most perfect form of money that’s ever existed." — Bobby Gray [18:55]

• Congress as Stage, not Salvation

  • "Congress is not going to save us...We have to do the work as people who care about liberty." — Justin Amash [29:19]

• Party Change Echoed by a New Generation

  • "There is at least a recognition that we need to do that. That's a good thing. And that's a product of Ron and...the libertarian worldview." — Chip Roy [46:15]

• Hope as Enduring Legacy

  • "He really did change my life...he set an example that I think maybe I'll never live up to, but I'll always be striving for it." — Justin Amash [34:35]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Tom Woods on the Ron Paul Movement’s Emergence: [01:09–11:16]
• Bobby Gray’s Crypto Evolution & Testimony for Paul: [11:49–22:09]
• Justin Amash on Sincerity, Hope, and Congressional Lessons: [22:52–35:07]
• Chip Roy on Fiscal Discipline, Defense Blind Spots, and Federalism: [35:34–56:05]

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Final Takeaways

This episode underscores the deep, multi-generational impact of Ron Paul—a leader whose unwavering sincerity, dogged independence, and devotion to liberty created not just political ripples, but a lasting network of individuals and communities fighting for honest money, non-intervention, and self-determination. By transforming outsider ideas into mainstream debates—often against fierce resistance—Paul has fostered a legacy that is as much about hope and community-building as it is about policy.

As the guests make clear, the Ron Paul Revolution is alive not merely in Congress, but in the hearts and minds of people—educators, entrepreneurs, lawmakers, and ordinary citizens alike—willing to carry the torch of liberty in evolving and ever-hopeful ways.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Kibbe on Liberty. I'm actually in the BlazeTV studios in Dallas, Texas, and I spent the weekend at Ron Paul's 90th birthday party. This special episode featuring some of my favorite people in the world. We're going to talk about what Ron Paul did to change their lives. His legacy is massive. Check it out. Welcome to Kibby on Liberty. Welcome, everybody. This is the very first time I've done something really live, so we'll see how beautiful this chaos gets. I am at The Ron Paul 90th birthday party in Lake Jackson with my good friend Tom Woods. Welcome, Tom.

[B]

Matt, a pleasure.

[A]

And my idea for this is. And we're just gonna keep bringing people in. My idea for this is to talk to some of the most important people in the movement about their Ron Paul origin story. Like, how important was Ron Paul to you building out your career as a young educator?

[B]

Well, my story goes all the way back to seeing a Ron Paul for President Libertarian Party bumper sticker in 1988. And I was 16 and saying to my mother, what does that even mean? Like, I've never heard of this guy. And she tried to explain it to me, but I started to. I had him in my mind. Like, I knew who he was, and I knew he had been a former congressman. And in 1993, I had a chance to meet him briefly. I got a book autographed by him. So by the time he ran For President in 2007, I knew all about him. In fact, I had kind of lost interest in politics around 1996 because Bill Clinton versus Bob Dole. I said, I cannot bring myself to get interested in this. So I just gave it up. But every two years, I would check to make sure Ron Paul had been reelected. I had no idea what he was up to. You know, the Internet was very much in its infancy in those days. But something about knowing he was still there made me feel better. And election after election, I would find he was still there. He was still there. So for me, when it was announced that he would run for president, I thought, well, this will be interesting because he's very different from anybody else who would be running. And I can't wait to see how it turns out. I couldn't have predicted that people would chant, end the Fed. That there'd be a renaissance of Austrian economics, that all these things would have come out of it. But it definitely gave me a boost in a number of ways because I started being the opening speaker for him at a lot of big, big events. And people got to know Who I was. And there was a. In 2009, I was at CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, or I don't know if it's outside Washington, it doesn't matter. But at that event, that was the event in 2009, my book Meltdown on the Financial Crisis had just come out. That was the event where for the first time I was surrounded by people who wanted to get a picture with me and get my autograph. And I was standing there talking to Dan McCarthy who's at ISI now. And all of a sudden, when the doors opened, this happened. I remember looking over at him, Dan, what is happening? I don't know quite what happened, but being in this Ron Paul orbit has been a real thrill for me because for one thing, after he left office, he decided to create a homeschool curriculum, self taught, video based, K through 12. And he said, would you create some courses for that? So I did that. And this is stuff. Yeah, I could have created those courses for my own audience, but this is Ron Paul asking me to do it. And I really felt like being able to do that was my way of feeling like something that you've accomplished will outlive you. This could be. Help educate people for the long haul, you know, and it was, it was all because of this, this one man. I mean, I know people who have gotten married because they met during the Ron Paul movement. And I mean, there were all kinds of crazy great outcomes that happened that he could never have predicted. But with me, it was like I knew this guy was a hero. I was gonna be glued to the set when it came to his presidential campaign. And in fact, I remember there would be video clips coming out every day on YouTube, like a bit of a speech, he gave a bit of an interview. And I would just. I was so unproductive that year because my day would be, well, what, what's he up to now? What provocative thing has he said now? And so, you know, of course he didn't win. I understand that he didn't win, but I think about, there are a lot of other people who didn't win. You know, Jon Huntsman didn't win. I bet nobody listening to this remembers Jon Huntsman. Duncan Hunter didn't win. No one remembers Duncan Hunter. Yeah, exactly. But Ron Paul. So here's an interesting thing. 2008, he released the book the Revolution. And it was like a manifesto of his ideas. And publishers were unconvinced about this because they said, oh, the general consensus of publishers was no one's going to Remember Ron Paul after the election. So there's no point in publishing this because it came out in like April of 2008. You know, he's going to be long gone and forgotten. But there was one publisher, Grand Central Publishing, that said, let's roll the dice on this, and ended up hitting number one on the New York Times list over at Wiley. The old guard at Wiley said, this will sell 8,000 copies. Forget it. But the young people at Wiley who tried to get this contract said, it'll sell 8,000 on the first day. Like, you don't get the phenomenon that this guy is.

[A]

Yeah, you know, I heard about Ron Paul for the first time in probably 1982 from my professor. Oh, you got me beat because I'm older than you. Dr. Hans Senholtz, who was an intellectual mentor. And he kept talking about this young congressman who was talking about honest money and all of that stuff. But like, like you said back then, the club, we all knew each other by name because there weren't any of us. And something happened with the first Ron Paul Republican campaign and followed by the Tea Party, the Ron Paul revolution. The Tea Party was fueled by the Internet and social media and that democratized everything. And these ideas that were so important and persuasive to us, we finally had the megaphone to we could reach everybody.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it meant that if you had an idea that wasn't somewhere between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole, you might have a fighting chance of being heard. You know, if you had a criticism of the Federal Reserve. No one had criticism of the Federal Reserve. You might actually have a fighting chance of being heard. Or if you thought that the debate over US Foreign policy was much too narrow. It was just between two different wings of interventionists. What if there was a non interventionist? You actually had a chance for being heard. I think in 2008, a lot of Americans weren't quite ready for that message yet because it was so different from anything they'd ever heard. And now it's like, you know, for half the country, it's the most obvious thing in the world. We should stay out.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, for, for a hot minute you had Elon Musk, the head of Doge, talking about ending the Fed, very expressive on the non interventionist ideas of Ron Paul. So we're, we're like knocking on the door to the halls of power now. And it's not, it's not driven by, you know, save for Bravehearts like Thomas Massie. It's not driven from the Inside, it's driven from the bottom up.

[B]

Yeah. And that's been a. What a bizarre thing this has been to observe over the years. I mean, when. When that first campaign was taking place, you will recall distinctly that the media went out of its way either to ridicule him or ignore him. Like he just was not a factor I'm probably tonight going to mention because I'll never forget this in 2012. They still will try. In 2012, MSNBC had a graphic on the screen and it was a list in order of how much campaign cash they had on hand of the GOP candidates in. In quarter two. And it was Romney. Romney was number one, but Ron Paul was number two. But on this graph, they had number one, number three, number four, number five. There was no number two. And so it reminds me of in the first campaign. Now people will argue about whether this was a good use of money or not. I refuse to consider such mundane concerns. The Ron Paul movement ran a blimp over the country as a way of saying, look, NBC isn't gonna tell you about this guy. No one else is gonna tell you about this guy. What if we put a blimp in the sky that tells you to Google Ron Paul?

[A]

You know, so corporate media was always a problem, but I don't think they appreciated at that point the power of social media. And they would have. Eventually the censors would turn their targets on social media. But at that time, the money bombs were literally bombs because everybody could do it without their permission.

[B]

And it was so thrilling. I mean, this was a guy who had, without complaining, given speeches to rooms full of 35 people, you know, and now he's giving the same speeches to a room with 3,500 people and watching these money bombs come in. And he's changed nothing about himself. He hasn't. He doesn't flatter people. He doesn't say what focus groups want him to say. He's the same guy, but yet he had reached the remnant.

[A]

It's that intense sincerity I think was so revolutionary. I mean, he doesn't seem like a revolutionary guy, but in politics, sincerity is hard to find.

[B]

Yeah. If possible, he's unrehearsed.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's real. So what do you think the future holds? We have about a minute left. The future holds because the show, the main stage, was started by a comedian and then a musician, and we have all of these entertainers and persuaders and people that are genuine rock stars in social media. What's next for the Ron Paul legacy?

[B]

Well, what's interesting now is that a guy like Piers Morgan, who frankly just wants ratings, he wants views, he wants clicks, has realized that people in our orbit bring him exactly that. So he'll do it. So he'll bring them on. And so our folks are getting more and more exposure, and again, not by selling out, not by compromising, but being interesting, informed, entertaining, lively, and different. Not the same old drones we're all accustomed to. So for that particular reason, and in that regard, I have some optimism for the future.

[A]

Yeah, I love watching Scott Horton and Dave Smith pick apart their debate partners.

[B]

Yeah, it's a blast.

[A]

It's a beautiful thing to see. Thank you, Tom. I really appreciate you doing this.

[B]

My pleasure, Matt.

[A]

All right, thank you. Thank you for joining me today on.

[C]

Kibbe on Liberty and for being part of our fiercely independent audience. Every week, my organization, Free the People, partners with BlazeTV to bring you this show. My guests bring smart perspectives on everything from current events to timeless philosophical debates.

[A]

If you like what you hear, go.

[C]

To freethepeople.org kol and support Kibbe on Liberty so we can continue to produce these. These honest conversations with interesting people. Now, let's get back to it.

[A]

Okay, Bobby, I. I'm meeting you for the first time live.

[D]

Yeah, thanks.

[A]

Good to meet you. And give us. I want to talk about your Ron Paul moment.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think people need a sort of a quick elevator pitch. You're. You're a crypto entrepreneur, and you're doing some pretty innovative stuff.

[D]

That's. That's very recent in my. In my Ron Paul story. I've been doing honest money since 2008. I started the American open currency standard back when I figured out that there was something wrong with the world and that every rabbit hole I went down to find the solution, there was always the same thing. It was always money. And so I tried to figure out who was doing something about the money supply. I found this thing called the Liberty Dollar. I kind of liked it, but thought I could do it better. So I started the open currency standard. Fifteen years later, you know, I finally took off my gold and silver blinders and got totally into cryptocurrency because it's just the future of money, and the world's not making any more gold and silver coin buyers. And so if we're going to be successful with our mission of honest money, we have to use the tools of today's times. We have to use the tools that the kids are using. You know, if children are the future and the future is digital and we want them to embrace the same things that are important to you and me. We've got to speak to them in their language. And so my daughter, everything that's valuable for her is on her phone.

[A]

Right.

[D]

She's not going out and buying a safe to fill it up with gold and silver coins. So I finally saw that the writing was on the wall for me. In 2023, I set out to figure out really which crypto was the best. Everything I came across, I always had the same problem. It's all almost now totally controlled by the same banks and institutions that Bitcoin set out to decide disrupt or foreign nations. And so when I figured that out, I said, we need a Made in America crypto. This was before it was cool to say that.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And so I said, let's. Let's make Texas coin. Nobody's done that yet. Let's create a coin for Texas by Texans. And our strategy that makes us different from everybody else that's in the crypto space is that we're exclusively building our digital currency mine here in the state of Texas. And so it's the only one that has a geographic limitation on that. But this whole story began because of Dr. Paul. And I virtually met him back in 2007 on the movie America From Freedom to Fascism. I don't know if you remember seeing that.

[A]

I do. Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

And we're in his office, and he's got this little paper inbox on his desk that says, don't steal. The government hates competition. And I'm like, what is this? Who knew that there was a man in government today that actually has integrity and makes principled decisions that follow the Constitution? What kind of a unique thing. And so I made a Ron Paul coin, and it ended up being a bit of a success. I got to present him with the first one at Freedom fest Las Vegas 2009. So that was the first time we actually got to meet in person. And I was a little bummed out because I thought that the work that I was doing was so important in the spirit of freedom and liberty. But we didn't really interact much until I got an email in 2012 inviting me to testify in front of Dr. Paul's very last domestic monetary Policy subcommittee hearing regarding sound money, parallel currencies, the roadmap to monetary freedom. And I thought that was like. I thought it was a mistake or something because, you know, I'm doing all this work and we're successful, but, you know, it doesn't seem to be reaching up to those high levels. And I Said, okay, I'll do it. And I got to my five minutes of fame going in and telling, you know, the federal government exactly what we thought about what they've done to money so far and to stay out of it. You know, don't legalize gold, don't legalize silver. Just stay out of it. Because everything you guys get involved with, you have a tendency of messing up. And we'd just be better if you left the market alone. We're going to find a way to survive like we always do. So I was having a conversation back then about alternative and complementary currency before most people ever heard of bitcoin. I wasn't a bitcoin fan back then because if you come from the world of gold and silver, it's the opposite end of the money spectrum. So that was really important because I am able to do what I do today because of that moment in time, back 13 years and five days ago where I had an opportunity to present and say what was on my mind, share my story with the world. And it's the same language, it's the same message that I have today. It's just I swapped out the gold and silver horse and buggy for a digital currency rocket ship. And if it wasn't for that moment, that opportunity to speak at that level with Dr. Paul, nobody would take what I'm doing today seriously. And I owe everything that I have today to Dr. Paul for that opportunity and that moment in time that I'll never forget. That's why I'm here today.

[A]

I wish, as much as I like what Dr. Paul does on the outside, I wish that subcommittee was still doing that work. And I think maybe not enough people were paying attention. I wonder what Dr. Paul or you would say about what's happening with Washington D.C. vis a vis court crypto generally. Because we at least jumped out of the frying pan.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

When the SEC was openly hostile to all crypto entrepreneurship and like, you know, trying to throw people in jail just for being entrepreneurs.

[D]

And it's great that that's completely changed. It's, it's, it's absolutely wonderful. But I don't trust any of it. I don't know how much you trust when the government says they're going to get involved in something, it usually means to watch out and they've got some other agenda. So I'm concerned as well. You know, there's a lot of discussion today about cbdc, the central bank, digital currencies, and, you know, we've promised to kill those things.

[A]

Right, right.

[D]

Executive Orders saying we will never have one. And yet if you go out to like a gun show and you talk to normal Americans and you ask them if they're into crypto, they say, yeah, which one? Xrp. And that seems really strange because XRP kind of seems like a CBDC to a certain extent. And so we'll see what happens. I think that what we can definitely appreciate is, like you said, the crypto task force at the SEC has been disbanded. And now we're going to see a lot of creativity, we'll see a lot of development in that space, which for a long time was, was very difficult to even think about doing without your bank account getting shut down or, you know, getting a nasty gram from somebody that, that says you can't do that here. You got to go find some other part of the world to develop your, your blockchain enabled business. So we'll see. It's, it's yet to be really known what the government's got up its sleeve.

[A]

I always, always take comfort in the fact that politicians like Elizabeth Warren or Hillary, Hillary Clinton are apoplectically worried that someone might actually be able to trade something anonymously, might actually be able to hold something of value anonymously. That tells me that this may be the most important strategy for liberty in the future.

[D]

It is.

[A]

Is that, is that what you think?

[D]

It absolutely is. I mean, for the first time in a very long time, hundreds of years, we actually have a currency, a monetary system that is completely transparent. I mean, you said anonymously. You know, crypto is not really. There are some privacy coins out there, but with crypto, you're trading transparency for that anonymity. And so we now have a monetary system where we know exactly how many coins there are, we know exactly how many they make per day, we know who gets them, we know what's required to get your hands on some of those freshly mined coins. We know how easy it is to send them from here to the other side of the world and back without having to go through a central gatekeeper authority. And so we have, I think, what is the most perfect form of money that's ever existed. And that's a big nut to swallow for a lot of people, especially the guys that come from the gold and silver world, where if you can't hold it, if it's not in your hand, if it's not locked up in your safe, then it can't be real. And so it took me 13 years to get over that concept. But the fact that you can perfectly split a crypto coin into thousands of little fragments. The fact that you can not, it's impossible to make a counterfeit bitcoin. You know, if I tried to send bitcoin from my wallet to your wallet and I had fake bitcoin, it would never reach your wallet. And so to think that that is a currency that's not provided by the government, not provided by a central authority, is a powerful concept. And so what we need to do is we need to educate, we need to really shrug off some of the skepticism, cynicism and some of the fear that we've had, you know, because crypto is dark web and it was money laundering, it was all these bad things. But really what we have at the core is this financial technology that puts the control of money back in the hands of us, the people. And I can't think of a more powerful tool to make it possible to continue fighting for freedom and liberty than honest money. It's at the bottom, it's the foundation of all of these things. And that's why it's so important that we have good honest currency, so that we can deal with each other through honest trade, through producers and consumers, outside of the realm of the government and the Fed.

[A]

Maybe the most important legacy of Ron Paul is turning people onto a philosophy based on sound money and explaining why it was so important for all of the other things we care about. If we hate forever wars, we should care about sound money.

[D]

They go hand in hand and we hate. Exactly right.

[A]

Government crushed by debt. We should worry about sound money.

[D]

But crypto gives us it's debt free, sound money. It's. And it, you know, even Dr. Paul is, you know, still trying to embrace that concept of really, is it possible that this, this digital currency has shed its physical form and yet improved in its terms of being an honest force? And that is absolutely the case. It might take you a long time to understand that, to grasp it, but that's what I want people to see. I want them to see what I see. That we've got now powerful tools on our devices in our hands that will allow us to take honest money out everywhere fast.

[A]

All right, Bobby, I really appreciate you stopping by.

[D]

Thanks so much. See you again.

[A]

Good to see you.

[C]

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[A]

So my idea for this particular show, we're here, obviously celebrating Ron Paul's 90th birthday, but we're all his children in one way or another, his intellectual children, his political children. Inspired. I just heard from Tom woods that people that met at Ron Paul rallies are in fact having children. So this is not just a metaphor, but I'd love to hear your Ron Paul origin story.

[E]

Yeah, So I was interested in liberty at a young age. I thought about running for Office in the mid-2000s, and at around the time I was thinking about running for office and really getting excited about going there as a Liberty candidate and being a Liberty representative in the State House. At the time, Ron Paul was running.

[A]

For president, and this was 2008 or 12.

[E]

This was 08.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

So it was so exciting to me to see someone out there representing so many of the principles and values that I believed in. And it's something I'd never seen before. You know, I was still pretty young. It's not like when you're in your 20s, you're necessarily, you know, all that up on politics the way, you know, that I might be today as an. As a person in my middle age. But at that time, I knew that we had not had a candidate like this, if ever. It certainly hadn't been a very. It certainly had not happened in a very long time.

[A]

You know, maybe. Maybe Thomas Jefferson's first run.

[E]

Right, right. So it was so exciting to me to have that inspiration out there and to have someone that I could hold up as an example for what I wanted to be. And, you know, even though the establishment was coming after him, to me, this was the future of politics. It was Ron Paul. It was someone who was fighting for each of us, who didn't care about the political labels, they didn't care about the partisanship was more about how can he advance liberty. And he was building hope. And he did it in such a seamless way. He wasn't, you know, in my view, the greatest orator of all time. He was himself.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

You know, he was who he was. And he presented himself as a human being with all the greatness of Ron Paul and also all the. The flaws. And I think that was beautiful for me as a. As a upand cominging legislator.

[A]

And so weird in politics to have someone who is so fanatically sincere Right. Like, you knew. You just knew he wasn't lying to you. And that.

[D]

Exactly.

[A]

That was such a different thing.

[E]

Exactly. Like, he was a guy who would say what he thought, and if people booed him and if people didn't like it, he didn't mind. He knew he was speaking something that. That he believed in, and you could tell, like, he wasn't worried about the appearances. You know, he wasn't there to put on a show for people or to please people. He was there to tell you what he believed and the way he would talk about the Constitution and, you know, how he wanted us to return to those central and basic principles. It was so inspiring to me. As a young legislator or young candidate.

[A]

At the time, did you and Thomas Massie, when you served in Congress together, ever fight over who was the authentic Dr. No as the inheritors of the Ron Paul legacy? I was thinking about this because I actually worked on the Hill way back when. Dr. Paul was there and he was all alone. Like, people cannot appreciate. You know, they made fun of him. Dr. No was not a compliment. And they made fun of him because he would just vote no on things. But by the time that you and Thomas got there, there. There was a little bit of safety in numbers. Maybe not enough, but it was. It was different. You could work together with someone that actually shared most of your values.

[E]

Yeah, it definitely helped to have Thomas there. It was. I hope it was some relief to Ron that I was there to provide a little bit of backup in that term. We served together, and then Thomas came soon after that, and then there were the three of us.

[A]

Okay, so you guys did cross over.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, we did. We were all there together.

[A]

Did he literally hand you the torch?

[E]

There is no. No handoff. And, you know, I never feel like I'm worthy to really take that torch. The thing he has, none of us really has. In the same way, you know, there are other ways in which I hope that I have been influential, and I hope that maybe in the future I will continue to be influential, but nobody has quite what Ron Paul has. And, you know, with Thomas, the great thing is I don't think we have to fight over who is going to take the torch in that sense, because Thomas and I voted so similarly on many of the controversial pieces of legislation that it wasn't ever an issue. You know, if before, you know, if Thomas was not there, the votes would have been something to one a lot of times without Ron Paul, without Thomas, if it was just me, it would be something to one with Thomas. There it was always something to two.

[A]

So I am a recovering part political activist and you and I over the years fought some political battles together. You are a recovering congressman. And I wonder what you and I think about Ron Paul. Like so he used politics as a cultural stage and I think his impact outside Washington DC is astronomically larger than anything he could have done in Congress. Do you have an opinion? I don't think it's an issue either or thing. But do you have an opinion about where your voice, our voices should be? Should, should we be in Washington D.C. or will you convince my wife to let me leave?

[E]

I do think we need those voices in Washington D.C. you know, I was, I was talking earlier to people during, you know, the celebration about how Congress is not going to save us.

[F]

Right.

[E]

Who we have to save ourselves. It's going to happen in our own communities, it's going to happen in our churches, it's going to happen in our neighborhoods. We need to do the work as people who care about liberty. Congress is not going to be there to save us. But it is important to have those people standing there standing up for principles, whether it's Ron Paul or Rand Paul or Thomas Massie. It's important to have those people who serve as a beacon for others who you can look to. And even if they're losing those battles, you can look to them for inspiration because that's how I got started. And I want, you know, I think we have to have those people to inspire that next generation. So it's not just about how can we build in the community on our own. We have to have that person who is shining the light and saying, hey, follow me. You know, I might be losing right now, but you can be part of my team here, you at home, you can be part of this battle and we can do it together.

[A]

Yeah. Thinking about the Ron Paul Revolution in 2007, 2008, that some in many ways morphed into the Tea Party. There was huge overlap in those two things. And of course the Wall street street bailout happen. So it's a perfect storm. And technology for the first time allowed people to find stuff out for themselves because the media wasn't going to tell them they never would have. And your career was very much born in that foment. How confident are you that the ideas of Hayek, who I know is very important to you, the ideas of Mises, the ideas of the Austrian economists and the Scottish Enlightenment philosophers, that whole body of stuff that you and I love, how confident are you that we can make that cool with the kids?

[E]

I think we can. It's going to take some time. You know, right now, there's a MAGA movement, and sometimes libertarians feel at home within that movement as well. But there are big differences. There are big differences. And I think what Ron Paul presented was much more hopeful than what we see today. And I think that there will be room for that next generation to embrace that hope again. There will come a time when we say, okay, enough with the tension and the partisanship and the animosity, and we want to embrace hope, hope for a better future where people work together, they come together, and they try to advance liberty and let people live their lives and make decisions for themselves instead of having someone else make decisions for them. So I am a believer that this will come around and we'll have a future where those views are, again, front and center. But it's going to take some time, and it's going to take people who are standing up both in Washington and at home to make that happen.

[A]

So you're reminding me of an X post from Daniel McAdams, who is a longtime Ron Paul associate and was recounting being there working with Dr. Paul on his final exit speech, which, if you haven't seen this, everybody go right now and download this and watch. Watch it five times. But the thing that Daniel said that I think echoes what you just said, is that the most important thing about Dr. Paul was that he was hopeful. He loved the American people, he trusted them, and he had hope that we had this ability to work things out for ourselves. So if there is such a thing as hopeful populism instead of resentful populism, I mean, I call myself a liberal libertarian populace, and I think it's a hopeful philosophy.

[E]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that is the big difference between Ron Paul and a lot of people who talk today. And, you know, I think within the libertarian movement, there has increasingly been a bit of negativity and a bit of that, you know, sort of cultural tension that didn't exist that. That Ron Paul was not really about, you know, he was reminding us about what was great about this country, what was great about our Constitution, what was great about liberty. And, you know, his view of people was that they were good, that they could come together and they could make sure that people live in a free society. And I think today there is more resentment and. And it's unfortunate, but to me, that's what I remember most about Ron Paul. It was that positivity. It was that sense that things were going to get better and not such a focus on, like, how bad things are, but more of a focus on. Isn't what we have beautiful? Like, we have a beautiful constitution. We have beautiful people who can come together for.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. So any words to Dr. Paul as you wrap up?

[E]

Well, I just want to say thank you to Dr. Ron Paul. He really did change my life. I'm not sure that I would be the person I am. I'm not sure that I would have served in Congress the way that I did if he didn't exist. I mean, he really impacted my life, influenced me and set me on a course and set an example that I think maybe I'll never live up to, but I'll always be striving for it.

[A]

Love it. Love it. Thank you for coming by.

[E]

Thanks, Matt.

[A]

At Kibbe on Liberty, Freedom is a.

[C]

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[A]

So now an actual live congressman. So we're just going to spend the next 10 minutes blaming you for everything. Always everything.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

So what I'm doing is I'm bringing a bunch of people onto my show and I really want to hear your Ron Paul origin story. You're an actual Texan.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

So you probably have one and I don't know what it is.

[F]

Yeah. So, you know, when I was kind of coming of age politically in the 90s, you know, there was this congressman from Texas who was, I think, on his second go right. In 96, if I get my time right as I just come out of college and, you know, he was kind of speaking this language that I was trying to figure out and understand and talking about things that, and I'll tell you, funny now, all my buddies in the Freedom Caucus and a bunch of people were all saying that, you know, how many times every day I hear the phrase Ron Paul was right. Right. In terms of the Fed, in terms of spending, in terms of, you know.

[A]

I heard you say that on stage and I want to, I want to stop you there. How many of them are willing to say it out loud in public?

[F]

Well, not as many as, not as many as you would hope, but I think maybe some increasing numbers, though, right. I mean, in terms of, of certainly the principles. Right. In terms of the Fed, in terms of recognizing how far Things have gone and I think it's just taken too long to get there. But bottom line is with Dr. Paul, he was speaking a language that was, you know, for me as a, you know, I went to uva, kind of a Jeffersonian kind of worldview, understanding the Constitution and understanding the Declaration and all the principles, but the whole notion of not just the Fed, but spending and the size and scope of government. You know, there was a Republican establishment that was talking a big game about balanced budgets and things, but were completely off the map. They just completely not, you know, where they needed to be. And it all sort of came to fruition for me when I went to the Hill as a staffer in the 2000s. And then I was saying, well, that guy's making sense. And all these guys under the Bush administration, everything else, government's getting bigger. This stuff's crazy. And both in terms of war and intervention as policy spending and the entire machine of government, it all started to click for me, particularly in that window of time.

[A]

Yeah, like the simple logic that Washington hates that you can't actually borrow $38 trillion unless you can create money out of thin air. Should. Should be something that more of your colleagues care about.

[F]

I do believe that more people today really, truly are getting it because it's gotten finally so bad that they don't have any choice but to get it. But I don't think still, I do still think there's a gap for people to understand the connection between that spending and the size and scope of government and how that by its very nature undermines liberty and undermine. It's empowering the bureaucracy that's at war with us. It's not just the Fed and the printing of the money and the inflation, all bad. But you're taking all of that and you're giving life and you're giving license to this massive bureaucracy that then undermines our ability to function and live free. And I think that's at the core of some of the things that I'm actually hopeful about in the current administration. And Russ voted omb and some of the things they're doing, some of the stuff that was going on with Doge, a lot of that was there were some shiny object and all that, but a lot of the stuff to try to peel back a lot of the bureaucracy, there is a war going on with that entrenched bureaucracy in a good way. And that is a good thing that I think is a product of what you were just talking to Justin about going back to Tea Party Freedom Caucus MAGA where are we now? Like what? Populism. All of that is now led to a place where I think there is a proper effort to undermine the bureaucracy. But the Congress is still catching up. You know, they just never met a dollar they didn't want to spend. And Reagan was right when he said, I think Johnny Carson in the 70s, he goes, every program you put forward should have a tax bill attached to it. Not because we're pro tax, but to make. You have to understand that there's no free lunch. And the problem is every member of Congress thinks they can just write a check and then not pay for it.

[A]

So I think it was Tom woods or. No, it was Justin. Justin Amash mentioned the Ron Paul clash with Rudy Giuliani and the first time at a Republican debate where someone.

[F]

Oh, eight.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, 2008, made a principled argument for non interventionism and used this term that the government had always used called blowback. And there was blowback to Ron Paul talking about that. But today you see obviously your colleague Thomas Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yeah, A number of Republicans are more comfortable, and I don't want to talk about a specific war, but more comfortable with the idea that we can't fight all the forever wars ever without destroying us. Empires die and republics thrive. And we're looking a lot like an empire now.

[F]

Yeah, I mean, look, I'll try to do quickly. I'm a child of the 80s, grew up under Reagan, you know, beat the evil empire, communist wall coming down and then nine, 11 happens. Right. And so you have this patriotic like, yeah, let's go get the bad guys. And what happened during that time and I was on the Hill as a staffer and I took a trip to Iraq, a rule of law trip, to go see what they were doing over there. And I'm getting driven around everywhere and I'm like, we're building soccer fields and we're like doing all this stuff and I'm going, what are we doing? Like, this is not a battle to protect our interests. This is a effort to go out and nation build and to do things that are far afield. And it became very clear to me that there was an entire industry, an entire universe built around this that was not good for our national security or frankly our spending or our help as a nation. Like right now, for example, like our health care system, which is brutally expensive and you can't get the doctor of your choice, insurance companies run it, hospital corporations, Medicare, Medicaid and the veterans stuff is all off the charts. Well, we just voted I voted against it, of course. But a few years back, a burn pit bill which, you know, we had veterans who were hurt in war. It was like a $600 billion entitlement. Every one of these things we do dominoes. So back to the intervention. When you have an interventionist policy, when you're going around and doing nation building, when you're in endless wars and endless conflicts, when you have AUMFs that are now 23 years old, literally like you know, the AUMFs going back to 0103 Iraq, we still have an Iraq AUMF. Like why Saddam Hussein's been dead for 17 years or something. So, you know, this is the kind of thing that I think there is a philosophy that is growing that people understand. And I think to I think to his credit, I think President Trump and a lot of people administration, I think have it bent in this direction. We'll see what happens in Alaska here soon. About Russia and Ukraine.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. The mystery to me and I always felt like perhaps defense spending was the Achilles heel heel of the Tea Party era because push came to shove. If we were trying to balance the budget, if you're trying to eliminate the debt, there was, there were caps on domestic and defense spending and it was Republic that undid that deal.

[F]

So interesting you say that and you may agree or disagree on what we're trying to do in part of this whole process going with the Trump administration of what we just did. And there are a lot of elements of the big beautiful bill I didn't like. There are a lot of elements that I think we got some wins but not debating that people don't understand fully why we had a defense pot of money in that bill, which I was reluctant. But here was the reason. The reason was we'd kind of lost that ability to bring break defense and non defense. So the agreement which we'll find out in September how real it is and this is going to be a big and epic fight or maybe it won't be. I hope we stand to it. But is that the spending has to stay flat for defense and non defense this year and going forward we got to hold that spending down. The idea was to put a pot of money in for modernizing the military while Hegseth is supposed to be ripping apart the bureaucracy finding more savings for anything in the future. And then break the back to your point again, love or hate the strategy, break the back of what you're talking about. Everything in town is driven by defense spending. Republicans want defense spending and then they will go to Democrats cut an unholy alliance deal and then you get non defense spending and then you get bloated supplementals that then snowball. And we're trying to find ways to break the back of that. And there's some in the administration who gets that we need to break the back of that and that's what we're trying to do.

[A]

I really hope that I get to say happily that I was wrong and you were right on this.

[F]

I, and I hear you and look the right and wrong on this. Let's be very clear and I say this, I've said it publicly at the time and I was in the Rules Committee putting up charts and concerns with where we are on the spending levels and the, on the, on the big beautiful bill. But in terms of Medicaid restraint, in of terms, terms of cutting out some of the subsidies, in terms of work requirements, on some of the food stamps and on Medicaid, in terms of some of the policy changes we got, some of those were things we never did before that we were able to actually crack open. Now the expense for doing those things, very costly. The problem with putting defense spending into a mandatory bill, very concerning. But at this point, it's almost like the Convention of the States debate or whether you want to open those things up or not. At some point you're like, we got to try whatever we can because whatever's been work has not been working. So I'm, I'm open to whatever we can. When I've got some friends at OMB that want to go slash and burn some of this, I'm like, well, let's try.

[A]

Well, I want you to bring this message back to your fellow conservatives because the thing that's always mystified me as, as someone that I started off as a budget hawk, I was a budget economist and I was focused on this. And the more you looked at it, you realize you couldn't balance the budget with, with exploding defense spending and that had to be part of the story. But there's a blind spot with conservatives and if Dr. Paul was, was here, he'd I think, agree with me for some reason. We will give DOD a blank check, assuming that that big bureaucracy wouldn't possibly waste the money, wouldn't possibly grow their empire, wouldn't possibly do things like, like any other bureaucrat in the Health and Human Services. Fill in the blank. Conservatives are very good fighting against the welfare states, but horrible on the.

[F]

I agree. I do not disagree at all. What I am, I'm going to be modestly rolling the dice on right now is that. And part of it was like what leverage they have. I mean, you only have. You have a narrow majority. You're trying to figure out how to hold the boats. But what I'm rolling the dice on is that there is a stated desire by Pete at the Pentagon and by some of the administration to blow up what has been driving that for decades, which is the appropriators having their teeth in the appropriation cycle during the discretionary to then go to K Street and go to all of the lobby around town and to go all of the contractors who are driving all the show. And now there's an effort to say what can we do to break that up? Can we get more nimble and better defense on lower budget with better contracts and then get the Pentagon to break what they've been doing for three decades? There is at least a recognition that we need to do that. That's a good thing. And that's a product of Ron and that's a product of you and that's a product of the libertarian worldview. But just all of us who in our concentric circles of conservatarian conservative, libertarian budget hawk telling the truth to the American people and telling the truth about what's going on, those things are killing our country. What the medicine is depends on who the doctors are, I guess. But that's what we're trying.

[A]

So since we've gone down this path, do you think there's a way, and I think this is what you're arguing. Is there a way to get out of these omnibus chromnibus New Year's Eve BS bills that none of you know what's in it until after you pass it.

[F]

So, you know, somewhat infamously right in December, I was fighting against one of those massive bills and against the debt ceiling increase with no actual discernible fiscal restraint. And somewhat notably that kind of blew up into a public spectacle. And then we.

[A]

That you felt for a moment what it meant to be Dr. No.

[F]

Yeah. And that's okay. That's a good thing. Right? And I was, I was good with it, had no problem with it. But that served as the nucleus through the spring of what became, and by the way, what became a big moment when the Budget Committee, when the four of us killed the big beautiful bill in the Budget Committee because we were demanding that we get spending cuts commensurate with the tax cuts. So now fast forward now, here we are. Part of the deal was that we're going to have spending at or below Current levels, that was the deal. So we better stick to it or I think there's going to be some hell to pay this fall and we'll see what happens. CRs, appropriations, all the stuff. The problem we have right now is you got to have 60 votes in the Senate and there's such disparity and disagreement. It's hard. So my prediction is we end up in CR territory rather than omnibus territory, which is good and bad. Relatively flat spending, but you're not doing your job to do appropriations. But I do think we're going to be able to at least hold that spending down at a CR level and go try to work heading into the next cycle. But we'll see. We got to try.

[A]

So I'm waiting for Glenn Jacobs. Do you know Glenn? Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. No, no, I don't see. He's not here, so.

[F]

No, that's fine. But we can go while we're waiting on Glenn.

[A]

Yeah, we'll keep going.

[F]

Want to go another thing, Fire away.

[A]

Oh, gosh. So let's take it back to Ron Paul and his legacy here. No, before that I wanted to get a quick update on the floods in the Hill Country.

[F]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

How are things going?

[F]

Yeah, that's great. And it's actually, and I'll tie it back to Ron because of he being such an instrumental part of my view about limited government. And he and I were just talking about this. Proud to represent Kerrville. Floods were terrible. You know, we lost 120 people, 27 of those little girls from Camp Mystic. But the amount of faith based and community driven response to that, that has been so uplifting in response to that. And importantly, $100 million of giving that has gone to the community foundation, the Hill Country. And unlike some of the money that I think was wasted in California, this is money that. And we're getting updates on real time, going to people in real time to help them, help get them back on their feet. Small businesses, cash flow, interest free loans, all sorts of things to help people function. And importantly, the message I've been delivering is the federal government is not an ATM every time there's a disaster. We're the eighth biggest economy in the world. In Texas, we have 33 million people. We can solve this problem. I want this to be a model of success, of how you respond to tragedy, local action. Yeah, the feds can have a role. If they've got some tools and some planes and some stuff, that's fine. We all agree with that. But they're not supposed to be an atm. And I think this is a really good story out of a tragedy of how you can rally around as a community and do things the way Texans, Americans are supposed to do it. Help your neighbor, help your friends, do it locally, do it through charity and giving. Stop going to the federal government for a frigging free check.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know where that federalism thing came from because I'm actually old enough to remember when states had that responsibility. And because they had the responsibility, they can't pawn it off.

[F]

Well, the first thing that happened, I get back to Capitol Hill and all my colleagues, they're prayerful and thoughtful and I'm grateful for that. But one of the first things, I had members come to me on the floor saying, well, when are you going to get a supplemental? We need to do a supplemental for your people. I'm like, why? Yeah, FEMA might have some dollars there that they were using to do this, but that should be in the hundreds of millions or tens of millions, whatever it is, in response. And then they're done. We're not. They come at these like they use it as an excuse to write another big check to grow the bureaucracy so they can go buy more votes at home. And this goes to the heart of the problem. And again, I think we do at least have some new generation of people who get this more. But that old guard in common Congress still thinks, write a check, get a vote, write a check, win an election. And that is the wrong way of thinking. Yeah.

[A]

I can't help but notice that Florida and Texas do a better job responding to natural disasters than, say, California. Aren't you the guy that got in trouble for questioning the blank check to California after the wildfires?

[F]

Yeah, I was among a few. But, yeah, I mean, and that's. And I'm trying to be consistent. Consistent right now. It's like my people were hurt. It is a. It was a devastating thing for us. A lot of damage. I mean, it's crazy how bad those floods were, but those things happen. F5. Tornadoes happen, hurricanes happen. We have to be ready to be able to deal with those as a people. And look, if we're not going to be serious about this and consistent about it, then we're not being honest with ourselves. And that's spending of money. It's as Tom Massey, my good friend, dear friend. And you know, again, we all should be consistent. Praying for him after he lost his wonderful wife, Rhonda last year. But, you know, he grabbed my iced tea and he put it in a glass. Famously. You've seen that video where he then diluted it with water showing the impact of what happens when the Fed prints money and when, you know, we've got all the borrowing that we do. And look, I'm still optimistic that the legacy of Ron Paul Tea Party Freedom Caucus getting founded and core elements of, of the MAGA movement is a response to the old guard establishment Republican and Democrats who have been spending us into oblivion. But they haven't found religion yet. We still, you know, we're still seeking it.

[A]

There's that Ron Paul hopefulness.

[F]

Yeah, well you gotta be.

[A]

Yeah, you have to be. Cause on any given day you're getting your butt kicked and it's can't be fun.

[F]

It isn't. But it also. Look, I mean part of it is I, and I've said this to the crowd out there, we, we've achieved some things like I mentioned out there. Fisa, right. You say, well, we didn't get the warrant requirement we wanted FISA we were fighting for. We lost it by one vote. But what did we do? We kept it to a two year reauthorization instead of five. The old Republican Guard would have pushed that out five or ten years. We put a bunch of provisions in there to make it better. Amendments I put in committee and Judiciary Committee to increase liberty, increase our transparency. And now it's going to come up again next April. So we get another bite at the apple. These seem like crumbs, but they're incremental gains against an establishment that's meant against the average American. And we're winning some of those fights and we shouldn't lose sight of all of the work, these events, Ron Paul, all the things we've done that have led to this moment. We get frustrated and we see things like the big beautiful bill and we see the bad, we see more borrowing and we see spending for good debate and reason. But then remember a trillion dollars that we just got out of Medicaid when they, they all told us 18 or you know, six months ago, you're not going to touch Medicaid. Well, we did meaningfully and we were able to get real reforms put in there, embedded in there. Real changes on some of the ACA subsidies, real changes on direct primary care, put in health savings accounts. That's a product of all of our fight for liberty.

[A]

Like I say, I hope you're right, I hope I'm wrong and I love. We'll wrap up with this.

[F]

I think we're both right and both wrong, but that's my view. Yeah.

[A]

Always. Right?

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

We lost Glenn Jacobs. I think he's still on stage.

[F]

Okay.

[A]

I want to wrap up just by saying something that I've said to you before. I first met you in 2008 when you were a Hill staffer and you were one of the few Republican staffers that was willing to work with us on the outside to oppose the Wall street bailout. Yeah, it was not fun because it was a Republican president, I think Republican. No, Republic, Republican House, because I remember John Boehner walking up the aisle with Nancy Pelosi, and like you, you stuck your neck out. And I really appreciate that.

[F]

Well, I enjoyed doing it because it was the right thing to do. And I remember being in a meeting with a bunch of Republican leadership staffers, and there was a group of us, we're over the Heritage foundation, and we were cheering because it had failed like, three or four times on the House floor. They were fighting it out, and we were cheering. They're like, oh, my God, we're gonna die. And we're going, look, there's not too big to fail. You guys are crazy. But. But anyway, we were fighting that all as hard as we could. And, you know, now all these bailouts, they've had consequences. All of this stuff has added up. We were right. And I think all of these things, although I gather some of the things that you and I both agree have caused problems. Let's remember all of the gains that we've gotten in educating people, and then we're demonstrating where we need to go. Some of this stuff was set in motion, and it was set in motion by a boomer generation, frankly, that just started spending a hell of a lot more money than they should. And now you've got, I think, new generations of Americans who might get it and can do something with it.

[A]

Well, out of the Wall street bailout was born the Ron Paul revolution, Tea Party movement and momentum that we had. So I always look for an opportunity.

[F]

Amen.

[A]

Thank you, Congressman.

[F]

Appreciate it.

[A]

See you, Matt.

[C]

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[A]

And you if, and if you want.

[C]

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