Kibbe on Liberty — Episode 356

"Where’s the Beef: In Argentina or America?"
Guest: Rep. Thomas Massie | Host: Matt Kibbe | October 24, 2025 | Blaze Podcast Network

Overview

In this episode, libertarian host Matt Kibbe sits down with Congressman Thomas Massie for an in-depth discussion on the American beef industry—why the price of beef is soaring, what US policies are doing to both producers and consumers, and how current and proposed government interventions (particularly beef imports from Argentina) are contributing to a complicated, often counterproductive market. This conversation, motivated by President Trump's plan to increase Argentinian beef imports, explores Massie’s legislative proposals for reform—namely, restoring Country of Origin Labeling (COOL) and advancing his PRIME Act, which aims to free small producers from onerous federal regulations.

This is part one of a marathon two-episode discussion: the next episode promises to cover Massie's views on the Israel-Gaza conflict, AIPAC, and the coalition trying to unseat him.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of the Government Shutdown and Beef in the News

(01:15–03:00)

• Government shutdown has "not too many people have noticed" (01:31), but allows for this extended conversation.
• Conversation triggered by President Trump's plan to import more Argentine beef to bail out Argentina and address US inflation and beef prices.

Massie: "My beef is not with the president. It's with his policy." (03:05)

2. Beef Prices, Imports, and Market Dynamics

(03:05–09:54)

• "Not enough revenue to solve Argentina's problems... In supermarkets, it may be a quick fix, but it's not going to work long term." (03:20)
• Importing beef may temporarily lower prices, but the core issues are longstanding: declining US cattle operations, consolidation in meat processing (4 companies control 85% of market), and convoluted supply chains.
• Cyclical nature of cattle supply: Cattle inventories are at a 60-year low; it takes years to increase herd size due to biological and farming constraints—a contrast to pork and poultry.

Massie: "The supply chain for some foods is three years long... what we were doing during COVID... you're affecting the price of apples five years from now." (10:12)

3. Pandemic Aftershocks and the Supply Chain

(09:54–12:54)

• COVID-19 disruptions (lockdowns, school closures) interrupted planting/harvesting cycles, forcing slaughter of dairy herds and impacting supply for years to come.

4. Producer Incentives: The Cattle Cycle Explained

(12:54–14:46)

• High beef prices incentivize cow-calf operators to sell more calves to feedlots, reducing breeding stock, thus perpetuating low supply and high prices in a cyclical pattern.
• Imports during high-price periods disincentivize young US farmers from entering the business.

Massie: "High prices of cattle solve the problem of high prices of cattle. Like eventually more people get into the market when the price goes up, right? So there you have it. That's why it's cyclical." (15:22)

5. Commodity Prices and Beef Supply

(14:46–18:37)

• Beef markets are intertwined with corn and soybean prices; when feed is cheap, feedlots buy more calves, increasing demand.
• Bringing down cattle prices with imports now threatens long-term US beef supply and resilience.
• Two legislative solutions are suggested: restoring Country of Origin Labeling and reforming processing regulations.

6. Country of Origin Labeling (COOL) and International Trade

(18:37–25:24)

• US lost mandatory COOL in 2015 after a WTO ruling argued it unfairly discriminated against imports by increasing their tracking costs.
• Massie believes major meat packers pushed Canada and Mexico to challenge the law to buy foreign beef cheaper.
• Criticizes Congress for immediately complying with WTO: "Those judges at the WTO are not in my copy of the Constitution." (19:12)
• Voluntary and mandatory options for country of origin labels are discussed; current lack of transparency benefits large packers, not US farmers.
• The ability to differentiate (and earn a premium on) US beef is lost without labeling, to the detriment of domestic producers.

Massie: "If the US Farmer can't differentiate a superior product... they could buy calves cheaper, they could make and sell the beef at the same price at the supermarket." (19:12)

7. Consolidation and Regulatory Capture in Meat Processing

(26:28–34:05)

• Regulatory burdens and consolidation have funneled 85% of processing to just four companies, two of which are foreign-owned (Brazil's JBS, China's Smithfield).
• Massie describes himself as a small, inefficient "self-dealer," barely breaking even on cattle farming.
• Lobbyists and associations like NCBA (National Cattlemen's Beef Association) often align with big packers, not small farmers.
• Regulations are biased toward large plants; local processors must invest heavily to meet national-scale bureaucratic demands (e.g., facility requirements, full-time USDA inspectors), shrinking opportunities for smaller players.

Massie: "If you want to start your own little processing company... you have to comply with all the same regulations that the Oscar Mayer wiener factory has to comply with." (31:51)

8. The PRIME Act: Local Solutions to Federal Overreach

(34:05–45:04)

• Loophole: You can (legally) buy an entire or partial cow and have it processed at a custom facility for personal use, but not by the cut or for retail.
• PRIME Act would allow intrastate sales of locally processed beef (by the cut, at retail or restaurants) without mandatory federal USDA inspection.
• Local rules and surprise inspections would still apply; Massie argues this makes food safer, not riskier, due to consumer-farmer accountability.

Massie: "[PRIME Act:] the federal government, in my opinion, and in the opinion of our founders, had no authority to regulate intrastate commerce... the regulations will be at the state or local level." (43:41)

9. Industry Objections and Safety Myths

(45:04–49:34)

• The meat industry claims public safety would be at risk without federal inspection.
• Massie rebuts: almost all large-scale foodborne illness outbreaks are traced to big, USDA-inspected facilities, not small, local processors.
• Industry stirs fears of trade wars (tariffs on soybeans, etc.) to pit other farmers against reforms.
• Points out hypocrisy: similar exemptions exist for poultry, seafood, and apple juice—but not beef or pork.

10. America First, Consumer Choice, and Pragmatic Libertarianism

(49:34–54:09)

• Americans can’t "put America first" in beef purchases without transparency; origin labels exist on almost every other product.
• Massie advocates transparency—not protectionism—so consumers can make locality, quality, and ethical choices.
• Discusses decline from organic label rigor, why "local is better than organic," and skepticism of foreign inspection standards.

11. Summary—What Would Fix the Problem?

(54:09–56:30)

• Two main solutions:
  1. Mandatory country-of-origin labeling so consumers can choose and US farmers can differentiate product.
  2. The PRIME Act to allow small processors to sell locally, returning regulatory power to states and communities.

Massie: "Free the beef is what you're saying?" — Kibbe (56:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On US vs. Argentine Beef Imports:
  “The president's proposal isn't going to solve the problem long term, either of the two problems that he’s trying to solve, unfortunately. By the way... my beef is not with the president. It’s with his policy.” — Rep. Massie (03:05)

• On WTO and US Sovereignty:
  “Those judges at the WTO are not in my copy of the Constitution… the Supreme Court is supposed to be the Supreme Court. There’s not supposed to be a court more supreme than the Supreme Court. Yet that’s what the WTO pretends to be.” — Rep. Massie (19:12)

• On Market Cycles:
  “High prices of cattle solve the problem of high prices of cattle. Like, eventually more people get into the market when the price goes up, right? So there you have it. That's why it's cyclical.” — Rep. Massie (15:22)

• On Regulatory Capture:
  “If you want to start your own little processing company... you have to comply with all the same regulations that the Oscar Mayer wiener factory has to comply with.” — Rep. Massie (31:51)

• On the Rationale for the PRIME Act:
  “The regulations will be at the state or local level. And if you think this is too radical, you better not go to Kroger’s or a steakhouse, even tonight... the level of regulation that’s appropriate, I believe, is... surprise inspection, or your state may require inspecting you once a year.” — Rep. Massie (43:41)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:13] — Government shutdown background
• [03:05] — Why Trump’s beef import plan won’t fix the problem
• [09:54] — How COVID-19 disruptions ripple through the food supply
• [12:54] — The cattle cycle and market incentives
• [18:37] — Country of Origin Labeling & WTO interference
• [26:28] — The meatpacking oligopoly & regulatory capture
• [34:05] — The PRIME Act, custom processing loopholes, and local food rights
• [45:04] — Industry objections and safety rebuttals
• [49:34] — America first, consumer choice, and ideological framing
• [54:09] — Massie’s two legislative solutions
• [56:30] — Transition to part two: foreign policy, AIPAC, and more

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, technical but accessible, imbued with dry humor and libertarian skepticism—Massie puns frequently ("I would never steer you wrong"), while Kibbe keeps the discussion focused on practical solutions to cronyism and regulatory excess.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a detailed, inside look at the beef industry’s woes—escalating prices, regulatory hurdles, consolidation, and failed international trade policy—through the experiences and proposals of one of Congress’s few practicing farmers. Massie makes a clear case that less federal control and more consumer transparency would benefit both small producers and American dinner tables. The proposed solutions—restoring country of origin labeling and passing the PRIME Act—are presented as both constitutionally sound and common sense. Those interested in the intersection of food, politics, and freedom will find much to chew on in this hearty conversation.

(Stay tuned for part two, covering Massie’s foreign policy positions and the political efforts to unseat him.)