Kibbe on Liberty, Ep 359 Summary

Title: The UK’s Speech Laws Are Absolutely Mental
Date: November 5, 2025
Host: Matt Kibbe
Guest: Reem Ibrahim (Head of Media, Institute for Economic Affairs, London)

Episode Overview

This episode of Kibbe on Liberty features a lively and sometimes jaw-dropping conversation between host Matt Kibbe and Reem Ibrahim. They dive deep into the astonishing realities of speech policing in the United Kingdom—stories of arrests for mean tweets, the chilling impact on everyday citizens, and the cultural and legal backdrop behind these policies. The pair draw connections between UK and US attitudes toward free speech, government overreach, digital ID, the COVID-era lockdowns, public health paternalism, and the historical context of the liberty movement on both sides of the Atlantic. Delivered in a candid, humorous, and at times incredulous tone, the episode ultimately asks: if speech is violence, what happens to real liberty?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The UK’s Speech Policing Crisis

• Astounding Arrest Rates:

  • UK authorities averaged 33 arrests per day for “speech crimes” in 2023—over 12,000 arrests in a single year ([01:01], [01:17]).
  • Police resources are tied up policing speech rather than real violence or property crime.
  • "The amount of money and resources that must be spent on crimes like this is...astronomical.” —Reem Ibrahim ([01:38])

• Case Studies:

  • Lucy Connolly Case: A mother, previously without any record, tweeted an emotional reaction during a violent tragedy, suggesting burning down asylum seeker hotels, then deleted her tweet 4 hours later.
    Sentence: 31 months in prison (served 9 months). “That is absolutely astronomical... being arrested and given the harshest sentence possible purely for her speech.” —Reem ([02:19])
  • Comedian Graham Linehan: Arrested, strip-searched, and hospitalized after joking provocatively online about gender issues. Five armed police met him at Heathrow. “If a joke is a crime, that means you are able to actually be imprisoned. We are in a pretty awful situation.” —Reem ([05:48])
  • Silent Prayer Arrests: People have been arrested for silently praying in their heads outside abortion clinics—criminalized by presumption under “buffer zones.” “That thought is a crime no matter what it is.” —Reem ([08:01])

• Legislative Framework:

  • Section 19 of the Public Order Act, 1986: Criminalizes publication of material “likely to stir up racial hatred,” allowing for prosecution based on subjective consequences ([11:26]).
  • Communications Act, 2003, Section 127: Blanket provision against “grossly offensive” messages ([12:35]).
  • Malicious Communications Act, 1988: Also targets “grossly offensive” or “indecent” messages ([12:51]).
  • Non-Crime Hate Incidents: Police can register personal details for ‘hate incidents’ even if not criminal; will simply inform the citizen they've committed one ([09:47]).

• Political Instrumentalization:

  • These laws, often decades old, are now “weaponized” for political agendas, against critics of government or controversial policies.
  • There’s a “double standard” in enforcement, and no US-style constitutional free speech protections ([11:26]).

2. The Cultural Difference: UK vs. US on Expression

• Lack of Liberty Culture:

  • “A lot of Brits support this stuff. There isn’t that fundamental desire for freedom of expression.”
    —Reem ([18:34])
  • Historical and cultural roots, including the absence of a written constitution, mean UK citizens often accept government intervention “for their own good” ([18:34], [26:41]).

• Poll-driven Compliance:

  • Most survey data show UK society is generally comfortable with restrictions on “offensive” or “hateful” speech.
  • "Brits are quite nanny statist. They quite enjoy the government intervening in their lives." —Reem ([18:34])

• American Perspective and First Amendment:

  • Kibbe draws contrast with US First Amendment tradition and describes how, despite its erosion, “there is a very American instinct to want to be able to speak freely.” ([26:00])
  • Both agree: the US needs to be vigilant, as similar patterns of censorship—especially online, post-9/11, and in digital platforms—are emerging ([21:07], [23:04]).

3. Censorship, COVID, and Government Overreach

• Lockdowns and Information Control:

  • The Five Eyes nations (UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) implemented strict COVID lockdowns, often suppressing dissenting opinions.
  • “The crowd had opinions that might be quite critical of government officials... one of the ways they sustained lockdowns... was through stifling dissent.” —Kibbe ([35:48])

• Examples of Overreach:

  • In the US, parents speaking at school board meetings were labeled “domestic terrorists.”
  • The expansion of anti-terror and hate-speech powers creates a slippery slope: “If we’re all terrorists, then we all have no rights.” —Reem ([26:41])

• Health Paternalism and Social Engineering:

  • UK’s ban on tobacco for those born after 2009 seen as a legacy policy, driven by government-funded lobbying and disconnected from evidence ([37:09]).
  • Minimum alcohol pricing, mandated calorie labels, and other interventions justified by the existence of a socialist healthcare system: “If the government controls your healthcare, they want to then control your health.” —Reem ([41:01])

4. Digital ID and the Infrastructures of Control

• Digital ID Rollout:

  • The UK government is pushing mandatory digital identification that would centralize and track citizens' movements and activities ([44:23]).
  • “It will fundamentally change the relationship between the state and the individual... It creates a map of who you are, where you’ve been, what you’ve been doing.” —Reem ([41:01], [44:23])

• Expansion of State Power:

  • Potential for digital ID to be used in “good citizen vs. bad citizen” social credit systems akin to Chinese models, tracking everything from carbon footprints to speech ([44:23]).

5. Libertarian Movement and Optimism

• Historical Roots:

  • Reem recounts the founding of the Institute for Economic Affairs (IEA) by Anthony Fisher, inspired by F.A. Hayek’s Road to Serfdom—a legacy pivotal to Thatcher, Reagan, and the rollback of communism ([54:11]).

• Lack of UK Liberty Infrastructure:

  • The UK is described as having few, underfunded pro-liberty organizations and lacking an American-style “liberty movement.”
    “We don’t have that privilege. We don’t have a hundred organizations fighting for liberty. They don’t exist.” —Reem ([53:41])

• Hope for Change:

  • “Liberty is the most compassionate value because it means that people can pursue that flourishing for themselves.” —Reem ([58:23])
  • The future rests on telling human stories and communicating the compassionate side of liberty, not just facts and logic.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We are arresting 33 people a day for mean tweets.” —Reem ([01:01])
• “If a joke is a crime, that means that you are able to actually be imprisoned.” —Reem ([05:48])
• “Speech is not violence. Physical violence is violence. That is literally the definition of violence. For goodness’ sake, speech cannot be violent.” —Reem ([10:30])
• “We’ve never had freedom of expression... Americans just don’t know how good they’ve got it.” —Reem ([17:26])
• “If you’re a terrorist, all bets are off. Like, you don’t have rights, and maybe... you’re a mom that is really pissed off about school lockdowns. Well, if you’re a terrorist, you don’t really have any right to free speech.” —Kibbe ([25:24])
• “If we’re all terrorists, then we all have no rights.” —Reem ([26:41])
• “It’s feminist to be pro-gun because it means that I, as a woman, can have equal power to men.” —Reem ([50:28])
• “Without the IEA, there would be no Thatcher, no Reagan, and perhaps not the collapse of the Soviet Union. So quite the feat for a lowly chicken farmer.” —Reem ([57:37])
• “Liberty is compassionate.” —Reem ([58:23])

Important Timestamps

• Speech crime statistics, Lucy Connolly case: [01:01]–[04:47]
• Graham Linehan and abortion clinic ‘thought crimes’: [05:03]–[08:28]
• UK hate speech laws’ history & abuse: [11:07]–[13:30]
• Political consequences, UK cultural attitudes: [15:45]–[18:34]
• US–UK comparison, First Amendment, and digital censorship: [21:07]–[24:58]
• COVID-era lockdowns and censorship infrastructure: [29:38]–[33:08], [35:48]–[37:09]
• Public health paternalism (tobacco, alcohol, calories): [37:09]–[41:01]
• Digital ID and the future of surveillance: [41:01]–[45:38]
• Knife bans, right to self-defense: [46:48]–[51:39]
• Liberty movement in the UK and IEA’s origins: [53:41]–[57:37]
• Liberty as compassion, cultural optimism: [58:23]–[59:50]

Closing Thoughts

This episode is a stark warning and a hopeful call for those concerned with liberty, free speech, and government scope. The UK’s speech laws are both “mental” and a sobering reminder that cultural acceptance of intervention enables legal overreach. Through personal stories and sharp historical context, Kibbe and Ibrahim spotlight the real human (and cultural) consequences of trading liberty for the illusion of safety or kindness. Their optimism: the battle for liberty is a cultural (and human) one, and storytelling—even cracks, even jokes—still matter.

Connect with Reem Ibrahim & the IEA:
Institute for Economic Affairs: iea.org.uk
Reem Amir Ibrahim on X (Twitter), Instagram, LinkedIn: @ReemAmirIbrahim

Listen/Watch: Blaze Podcast Network, Free The People