Kibbe on Liberty Ep 364 — The Epstein Files Are Dropping This Week

Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Matt Kibbe (Free the People)
Guest: Rep. Thomas Massie (KY)
Podcast Network: Blaze Podcast Network

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the upcoming release of the Epstein files, a process catalyzed by Representative Thomas Massie’s legislation mandating transparency around the notorious Jeffrey Epstein case. Massie and Kibbe explore the political infighting, legislative hurdles, and the critical importance of public pressure in overcoming entrenched resistance from political and law enforcement leadership. The conversation offers candid inside baseball on House procedural tactics, infighting within both political parties, and the personal toll on whistleblower lawmakers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background of the “Epstein Files Transparency Act”

• The bill was designed to ensure the public release of all DOJ and FBI materials related to Jeffrey Epstein, overriding prior restrictions on grand jury information.
• Massie: “I wrote this legislation to say it has to be released within 30 days to the public. I don't trust my colleagues — release it to the public. And not in some encrypted file format that's impossible to search. It has to be in a searchable format.” [09:57]
• The law’s deadline is December 19, 2025.

2. Unusual Legislative Tactics and Fast-Tracking the Bill

• Discharge petitions rarely succeed; achieving 218 signatures was historic.
• Massie leveraged a dormant House bill (“a parked car”) to bypass usual delays and expedite his proposal.
  • “What I did was take an existing shell bill... I went and found that parked car and put the payload in it. So my discharge petition didn't require 30 days for a bill to mature.” [22:58]
• The Senate did not amend the bill, passing it by unanimous consent before the formal paperwork even arrived.
  • “They passed it before they had it. I've never seen the Senate move that quickly.” [04:32]

3. Political Isolation and Legislative Hostility

• Both President and Speaker Johnson strongly opposed the bill, labeling support a “hostile act.”
• Despite being the bill’s author, Massie was pointedly excluded from the White House Christmas party.
  • “There's one person he didn't invite, and it's the guy whose bill he signed last week.” [01:53]
• Media and party leadership smeared the legislation, falsely claiming it would endanger victim privacy or leak child sexual abuse material.

4. Cross-Party Tactics and Unusual Coalitions

• The bill ultimately passed the House 427–1, with bipartisan support, demonstrating overwhelming public and cross-aisle demand.
• Key Democratic and Republican co-sponsors—including Nancy Mace, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Lauren Boebert—faced intense pressure, threats, and ostracization.

5. Survivors and Public Pressure as Catalysts

• Survivors’ public testimonies and relentless activism on Capitol Hill played a pivotal role.
• Massie credits constituent activism and independent media with overpowering establishment resistance:
  • “We had all these forces against us, but we had two very important things for us: the survivors, and the people calling up their congressmen and saying, what's your deal?” [28:24]

6. Procedural Guts and Strategic Delays

• Speaker Johnson delayed swearing in new House members to stall the petition, in effect waging “siege warfare” to keep Massie from the 218-vote threshold.
  • “It was siege warfare for five months. No side gained any more. But then I gained one. A few months in, I gained one. A few more months in, I gained the other.” [24:26]
• Massie exploited procedural rules and congressional vacancies to advance his cause against intense party discipline and bureaucracy.

7. Legal Authority & DOJ Accountability

• The new law specifically overrides old restrictions on grand jury materials and bars redactions to “avoid embarrassment.” [14:17]
• The DOJ has announced a reopening of the Epstein investigation, possibly as a tactic to shield some files from release.
  • Such a move is only legally valid if the DOJ specifically explains how release would harm a current investigation.
• Massie: “If they don't release it at the DOJ, they're criminally complicit... we took the steepest hill to climb and we climbed it and we got there.” [20:07]

8. Personal Toll, Party Retaliation, and Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Departure

• Marjorie Taylor Greene, key co-sponsor and ally, has announced her departure from Congress, facing threats and attacks not only from the left but also from right-wing and MAGA factions, including President Trump.
  • “It's a new thing to receive death threats from the right. And that was happening to Marjorie and to her children.” [31:04]
  • Massie robustly defends Greene’s integrity against rumors and coordinates the reality of congressional pensions and public smears.

9. Nature of Massie’s Support—Voters Value Independence

• Massie’s constituents don’t always agree with him, but they respect his independence and willingness to "rock the boat," which he casts as a referendum for outsider voices in DC.
  • “What I hear most frequently back home is... in the 10 or 20% I don't agree with you, I know you believe what you're doing and you're fighting, and I'll take somebody who's doing that over a rubber stamp.” [36:43]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Exclusion from the White House:
  “There's one person [Biden] didn't invite, and it's the guy whose bill he signed last week.” — Thomas Massie [01:53]
• On Overriding Party Discipline:
  “Some of them took it to heart... and then all of a sudden one day, after calling it dog crap for five months, they were told to eat the dog crap. And Clay Higgins is like, I ain't eating something I call dog crap. So I've got respect for him.” — Thomas Massie [07:00]
• On Bipartisan Legislative Tactics:
  “We worked on this together [with Ro Khanna]... And what we have done, I've sent with some of my other colleagues in Congress, we sent a letter to Pam Bondi asking for a briefing.” — Thomas Massie [17:46]
• On Legislative End-Runs:
  “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you… and then you win.” — Matt Kibbe and Thomas Massie [24:22–24:27]
• On Media Blackout:
  “I would say we had Fox News against us. But Fox News didn’t report on anything. It was like, total blackout on this.” – Thomas Massie [27:48]
• On Independently-Minded Representation:
  “I vote with Republicans 91% of the time, but in the 9% of the time, they're taking up for pedophiles, starting new wars or bankrupting our country. I ain't going along with it.” — Thomas Massie [36:46]

Important Timestamps

• 00:00 — Introduction and failed invitation to the White House Christmas party
• 03:23–03:53 — Discussion of unusual House and Senate procedural moves
• 04:32–07:00 — Senate passage and critique of leadership opposition, pressure on co-sponsors
• 09:57–14:17 — 30-day public release requirement, legal mechanics to bypass grand jury secrecy
• 14:15–17:46 — What 302 forms are, contents of Epstein files, and why the law overrules prior precedent
• 17:46–20:07 — DOJ maneuvers to block or shield information, congressional oversight
• 22:13–27:47 — The role of survivors, public pressure, party leadership attempts to stall or sabotage progress
• 31:04–36:46 — Marjorie Taylor Greene’s exit, safety threats, and the value of independent political voices

Summary Takeaway

This episode is a close look at the intersection of institutional inertia, political self-preservation, and outsider reform in the American legislature. Massie’s persistent and creative approach forced one of the most secretive and sensitive investigations (the Epstein case) into open sunlight, propelled by public outrage, bipartisan pressure, and unsparing directness. The conversation highlights how legislative arcana, whistleblower risk, and populist activism can sometimes puncture even the most fortified walls of officialdom—if the pressure is relentless and the tactics inventive.

For listeners keen on behind-the-scenes political maneuvering, accountability battles, and real talk about DC’s double standards, this is required listening. The coming December 19th release of the Epstein files will be a direct outcome of the very activism and procedural know-how detailed in this episode.