Kibbe on Liberty Ep 365 | Bitcoin and Dive Bars: The Pillars of Civilization
Guest: Thomas Pacchia (Owner, PubKey)
Host: Matt Kibbe
Date: December 23, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the intersection between Bitcoin culture, community gathering, and the health of civil society—using the rise of PubKey, a Bitcoin-friendly dive bar/cafe and event space, as a case study. Host Matt Kibbe and guest Thomas Pacchia reflect on the destructive social impacts of COVID lockdowns, the political coming-of-age of the Bitcoin community (including its recent influence on national politics), and the timeless importance of gathering rooms like pubs for organizing culture and political change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pubs as the Heart of Community and Civil Society

• Gathering as a Foundation: Kibbe opens by defending drinking and social gathering not just for fun, but as a necessary incubator for honesty and real conversation, especially among political figures ([01:01]-[01:32]).
• The Loss from Lockdowns: Both note how COVID policies destroyed social infrastructure—dive bars and informal gatherings—that hold communities together ([03:17]-[03:35]).

“Pub Key was very much a product of COVID in a number of different ways. Two things that I love outside of my family are bitcoin and dive bars.”
– Thomas Pacchia [03:17]

• Pubs as Social Networks: The physical gathering places like PubKey replicate historical patterns where pubs are hubs for social and revolutionary interaction (e.g., Sons of Liberty, Thomas Paine’s pamphlets) ([36:37]-[38:21]).

2. PubKey: A Bitcoin Experiment in Community

• PubKey Origin Story: Started after the Pacchias saw their neighborhood bar failing post-lockdowns and wanted to create an accessible entry point for the Bitcoin-curious, avoiding exclusive “tech bro” or intimidating vibes ([03:35]-[04:55]).
• “Comedy Club for Nerds”: Pubkey hosts weekly Bitcoin and adjacent programming, comedy nights, trivia, and more, with an open-door policy ([05:36]-[06:57]).
• Special Offers: Patrons get a 21% discount when paying in Bitcoin to encourage real-world use ([06:57]).

3. Bitcoin’s Political Coming-of-Age

• 2024 Election Impact: Discussion of how Bitcoiners became a politically significant force, culminating in figures like Trump courting them at PubKey NYC ([07:52]-[08:41]).

“He bought 50 burgers and 50 Diet Cokes and paid in bitcoin. ...He was in full solicitation mode. ...Someone on his team told him that you guys mattered politically.”
– Matt Kibbe [07:58]-[08:07]

• Policy Shifts & Political Evolution: Trump’s newfound friendliness towards Bitcoin after earlier animosity is attributed to direct community outreach (e.g., Angela McArdle, David Bailey) and politicians realizing punitive policies galvanized Bitcoiners ([08:41]-[10:25]).

• Ross Ulbricht & Privacy Wars: The show discusses the lingering importance of political prisoners (like Silk Road founder Ross Ulbricht) as rallying points, and ongoing privacy battles involving projects like Samurai and Tornado Cash ([11:17]-[12:49]).

4. “Bitcoiners are not a Partisan Tribe”

• Disdain for Hard Partisanship: Both Kibbe and Pacchia stress that the core values attracting people to Bitcoin—privacy, free exchange, self-sovereignty—are deeply American and should not be pigeonholed politically ([21:07]-[22:09]).
• Diverse Adoption: Bitcoiners exist on both the progressive and libertarian ends, with localism and psychological malleability shaping the community—Boston “progressive Bitcoiners” vs. “self-sovereign” Texans ([22:09]-[24:54]).
• PubKey’s Neutral Platform: The bar/space doesn’t endorse candidates; it’s about hosting the conversation for all sides ([24:32]-[26:08]).
• The Importance of Plebs: Bitcoin’s strength lies in empowering end users to interact with the protocol independently, not just catering to exchanges, big companies, or political players ([24:54]-[26:08]).

5. The Ongoing Struggle to Make Bitcoin Everyday Money

• Adoption Barriers: Capital gains tax, complex regulations, and tech friction remain major disincentives for Bitcoin to function as a day-to-day currency in the US ([27:36]-[29:47]).
• Merchant Uptake: PubKey is actively converting local DC and NYC merchants to Bitcoin acceptance, providing training to lower the real “cost of adoption” ([30:12]-[31:57]).
• Community Support Model: Authenticity and a supportive Bitcoin base allowed PubKey to weather startup struggles, a model Pacchia thinks could work for any honest business ([30:55]-[31:57]).

6. The Cultural and Civilizational Stakes

• Bitcoin as Defense Against State Abuse: Pacchia and Kibbe argue that, just as in countries like Venezuela, Bitcoin empowers dissidents when states weaponize money ([32:20]-[33:38]).
• Need to “Orange Pill” the Mainstream: The need to onboard normies and avoid purity testing super fans—a parallel to the Grateful Dead and libertarian subcultures—is vital as crypto ideas go mainstream ([45:21]-[46:42]).
• Community Organizing as Core Mission: The bar serves as more than a hangout: it’s a means of addressing the “loneliness epidemic” and fostering bottom-up, resilient social networks ([49:14]-[49:34]).

“Pub Key really strives to address the loneliness epidemic. Just getting people out to the pub, the tavern, share food, share a couple drinks… It’s the most human thing that I think that we could have built.”
– Thomas Pacchia [49:14]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bitcoin as Psychological Mirror:
  “Bitcoin is a bit of a psychological mirror. You see what you want to see in bitcoin.”
  — Thomas Pacchia [22:09]

• On the Post-2020 Social Crisis:
  “Getting away from [pubs] in Covid was deeply disturbing and you can see that reflected… It takes a little bit for the Gen Z kids to calm down… They don’t really know where to put their hands or how to speak to the bartender.”
  — Thomas Pacchia [37:37]-[38:21]

• On the Need to Gather:
  “There was pre-2020 sort of a cultural backlash that said, I want to gather again and then use those social networks to actually start gathering, usually in a bar, because nothing replaces human interaction.”
  — Matt Kibbe [38:43]-[39:25]

• On Bitcoin’s Core Promise:
  “It was really built for people to run the node and be a voluntary participant in effectively a parallel system.”
  — Thomas Pacchia [24:32]-[24:54]

• On Superfans, Culture, and Going Mainstream:
  “Super fans define… any robust community starts with superfans. …But now it’s mainstream and normal people drink good beer.”
  — Matt Kibbe [44:24]-[49:42]

• On Political Weaponization of Bitcoin:
  “It’s not a red thing. It’s not a blue thing. It’s not a Trump thing. It’s an orange thing. It’s a core American value thing.”
  — Thomas Pacchia [48:27]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening: The Social Value of Pubs [01:01]-[02:29]
• PubKey’s Origin and Goals [03:17]-[06:57]
• Bitcoiners as Political Force (Trump Visit, 2024 Election) [07:52]-[10:25]
• Ross Ulbricht, Privacy, and Pardons [11:17]-[12:49]
• The Political Shift and its First Policy Outcomes [15:34]-[17:35]
• Bitcoin’s Internal Factions & Wider Tent [22:09]-[24:54]
• Barriers to Bitcoin as Everyday Currency [27:36]-[29:47]
• Community Building Post-Lockdown [35:56]-[38:43]
• Generational Social Skills & The Cost of Disconnection [38:43]-[41:06]
• Onboarding “Normies” & Broadening the Movement [44:24]-[46:42]
• PubKey DC & NYC Details, Invitation to Join [49:59]-[50:55]

PubKey Details & Invitation

• PubKey NYC: 85 Washington Place, Greenwich Village – Classic dive bar, Thursday public Bitcoin meetups, events posted online ([49:59]).
• PubKey DC: 410 7th St, Chinatown – Open 11am-2am, Wednesday meetups, Bitcoin Policy Institute office in the back ([49:59]-[50:42]).
• Find Them Online: Mostly Twitter/X, events livestreamed/recorded for YouTube and Rumble.

Conclusion

Kibbe and Pacchia underscore that community—whether around Bitcoin, food, music, or liberty—is foundational to both cultural and political progress. Pubs like PubKey are not just places to drink but to organize, debate, learn, and maintain civil connections. As the Bitcoin community matures and grows in influence, it faces the challenge of balancing its roots in self-sovereignty with the demands (and risks) of mainstream adoption—all while rebuilding the basic fabric of social life torn by recent years.

“We have to gather and we have to build community. Because cultural change is the only way out of this mess.”
— Matt Kibbe [49:14]