Episode Overview

Episode Title: Republicans Are Losing the PR War Over ICE
Podcast: Kibbe on Liberty
Host: Matt Kibbe
Guest: Jim Bovard, Investigative Journalist
Release Date: January 28, 2026

In this episode, Matt Kibbe and Jim Bovard dive deep into the current controversy over Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) actions, specifically focusing on the fatal shooting of a protester in Minneapolis. They explore the parallels between this event and the infamous Ruby Ridge standoff, examine the shifting political dynamics around police power, and discuss the dangerous implications of both parties embracing heavy-handed government tactics. Throughout, they underscore the erosion of civil liberties and the perils of political short-sightedness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. ICE Actions in Minneapolis & PR Fallout

• Fatal Shooting Incident: The discussion opens with analysis of the fatal shooting of Alexander Preddy, a protester in Minneapolis, and the subsequent public relations disaster for Republicans.
• Public Accountability & Cell Phones: The hosts note the futility of suppressing information in the age of ubiquitous cell phones, which has undermined official narratives (01:43).
• Legal Overreach: Trump’s DHS declared photographing or videotaping ICE agents illegal, contradicting court rulings and further eroding public trust (04:01).
• Confiscation of Evidence: Agents were reportedly confiscating cell phones to control the narrative after the shooting (05:10).

2. Political Strategy & Clash Creation

• Questioning Policy Motivation: Kibbe challenges whether the ICE prioritization of Minneapolis (a strongly Democratic area) was intentionally provocative, speculating it may have been designed to spark confrontation (07:42).
• Agent Training Concerns: Bovard points out the expedited training of ICE agents, noting that “47 days” was chosen as a nod to Trump being the 47th president—calling into question the agents' readiness (08:44).

3. Parallels to Ruby Ridge

• Summary of Ruby Ridge (1992): Bovard recounts the details of the Ruby Ridge siege and draws comparisons to the current Minneapolis case regarding federal overreach and loss of life without due process (14:49).
• Rules of Engagement: Both cases involve questionable use of deadly force under broad engagement rules set by federal agencies (17:53).
• Media and Public Pressure: Media exposure, via Bovard and others, was key in eventually achieving partial accountability at Ruby Ridge (18:59).

4. Flip in Political Alignments

• Role Reversal: The hosts remark on the reversal of traditional left-right stances: conservatives once championed civil liberties in cases like Ruby Ridge, whereas now, some Trump supporters defend aggressive federal policing (21:12, 22:04).
• Weaponization of 'Domestic Terrorist' Label: Both Biden and Trump administrations have misused the label for political advantage, eroding its meaning and chilling dissent (35:45, 38:00).

5. Deeper Erosion of Civil Liberties

• Suppression of Oversight: The Trump administration’s assertion that Americans have no right to know the identity of the agents involved in fatal shootings is called a "complete travesty" (30:36, 32:00).
• No Suspension for Shooters: Contrary to standard practice, the ICE agent involved returned immediately to duty, suggesting a lack of accountability (34:03).

6. Bipartisan Creep of Surveillance & Enforcement

• Both Sides Guilty: Democratic and Republican administrations have expanded definitions of criminality and terrorism, encouraging a cycle of abuse whenever power changes hands (39:29).
• Poor Long-Term Thinking: Kibbe warns that blindly empowering government enforcement arms sets a dangerous precedent for future administrations (42:00, 43:01).

7. Traffic Cameras as a Tangent on Authoritarianism

• Small-Scale Authoritarianism: Bovard discusses the unintended consequences of DC's increased use of traffic cameras—a microcosm of government overreach (46:06).
• Revenue vs. Safety: Policy has boosted revenues for the city but has done little or nothing to improve public safety; may have worsened it (47:05, 48:37).

8. Some Trump Administration Policies Supported

• Praise Where Due: Bovard acknowledges approval for Trump administration actions on rolling back DEI, climate policy, transgender guidance, some foreign aid cuts, and federal workforce reduction, while decrying defense budget increases (50:34).

9. The Loss of Constitutional Principles

• From Tea Party to Trumpism: Kibbe laments the decline of constitutional, limited government rhetoric on the right—replaced by a cult of personality and disregard for prior civil liberties advocacy (42:00).
• Danger of Historical Amnesia: Both highlight the danger of Americans (and especially conservatives) forgetting the lessons of past abuses (44:22, 44:49).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On ICE, Technology, and PR (01:43)

Jim Bovard: "You got people with cell phones, and it is devastating the official storyline."

On Policy and Public Relations (02:04)

Matt Kibbe: "If nothing else, it was always going to be a PR disaster because these conflicts lead to things like we just saw in Minneapolis."

On the Dangers of Expansive Federal Enforcement (04:01)

Jim Bovard: "Trump’s Department of Homeland Security... said that videotaping ICE agents is a crime... This is just a complete travesty of freedom of speech."

On Cell Phone Suppression (06:20)

Matt Kibbe: "Imagine thinking you could get rid of all the cell phones..."

On Training ICE Agents (08:44)

Jim Bovard: "...what was the training period for the new agents? It was 47 days. And why was it 47 days? Because Donald Trump is the 47th president. So here's your badge and your gun and your $50,000 signing bonus, and have fun."

On the Turnabout of Political Roles (21:12)

Matt Kibbe: "It was conservatives that were outraged at this assault on individual liberties... and now it's upside down."

On Misuse of 'Domestic Terrorist' Label (35:45)

Matt Kibbe: "It’s total bullshit that they have no business playing that game because that's what the other side does."

On Suppressing Officer Accountability (32:00)

Jim Bovard: "It's funny that the Trump people think that they can say the word doxing... and therefore it's okay to keep secret federal agents who killed American citizens. This is a complete travesty."

On Repeating History's Mistakes (43:01)

Matt Kibbe: "I've taken this radical, predictive position that someday a Democrat’s going to control that stuff again."

On Erosion of Fourth Amendment (43:08)

Jim Bovard: "DHS said... agents don't need a warrant to go door to door to search for illegal immigrants... just like the general warrant that the British had in the 1760s."

On the Loss of Principles (42:00)

Matt Kibbe: "These concepts have kind of left the vocabulary of the conservative right today..."

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Introduction, episode theme: government abuse and parallels between ICE, Ruby Ridge | | 01:43 | Cell phones and the collapse of the official storyline | | 04:01 | DHS declares videotaping ICE agents a crime; legal and constitutional concerns | | 08:44 | Questionable training and hiring of ICE agents | | 14:49 | Ruby Ridge summary and parallels to current case | | 21:12 | Role reversal: conservatives vs liberals on civil liberties | | 32:00 | Trump administration excuses for concealing shooter’s identity | | 35:45 | Weaponization of 'domestic terrorist' label by both parties | | 42:00 | Loss of constitutional rhetoric since Tea Party days | | 44:49 | Dangers of forgetting political history | | 50:34 | Brief discussion of Trump policies Bovard supports | | 53:57 | Trump attempts to de-escalate Minneapolis situation |

Closing Reflections

Kibbe and Bovard challenge their listeners—libertarians and conservatives alike—not to surrender civil liberties for short-term political gains. Their deep historical perspective and sharp critiques serve as a warning: empowering government to suppress dissent or over-police will backfire, regardless of which party is in power. In a time when both sides play the same dangerous games, defending the Bill of Rights must not become a partisan matter.

Where to Find Jim Bovard

• Website: jimbovard.com
• Articles: New York Post, Libertarian Institute, Mises Institute, Future of Freedom Foundation

This summary captures the flow, tone, and content richness of the episode for those who haven’t listened, spotlighting the core arguments, memorable lines, and the broader significance of the issues discussed.