Podcast Summary: Kibbe on Liberty

Episode 372 – "Deep State Operatives Won the Super Bowl"

Host: Matt Kibbe
Guest: Abigail Hall
Date: February 11, 2026

Main Theme

This episode satirically examines the intersection of U.S. state power, propaganda, and cultural spectacle, spotlighting the massive patriotic displays at the Super Bowl. Host Matt Kibbe and economist Abigail Hall (co-author of How to Run Wars) dissect how government and private actors collaborate to shape public narratives around war and foreign policy—often blending earnest analysis with tongue-in-cheek commentary in the style of “deep state” consultants.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Super Bowl as State Propaganda (00:00–05:30)

Costly Patriotism:
Hall shares her research on the cost of military flyovers at sports events, suggesting the Super Bowl’s elaborate spectacle likely cost upwards of $300,000.

“In terms of flight time... the ranges... were in the range of about the upper $100,000 to maybe around $300,000 for the flyover.” (Abigail Hall, 01:50)
Choreographing the Display:
The guests marvel at the flawless timing and “remarkable” choreography of the event, jokingly suggesting it's “almost too good for government work.”

“The timing of the flyover was so perfectly orchestrated. Really almost too good for government work.” (Matt Kibbe, 02:30)
NFL as a Propaganda Partner:
Discussion on how sports franchises, especially the NFL, have longstanding relationships with federal agencies for staging patriotic displays, blending public and private efforts to encourage support for government policies.

History and Mechanics of Paid Patriotism (03:33–07:05)

Deep Roots:
Hall recounts U.S. government collaborations with sports stretching back over a century (e.g., sports equipment sent to troops, local games fostering goodwill at military bases).
Paid Patriotism Exposed:
Senators McCain and Flake exposed “paid patriotism” in 2012, documenting millions spent by the Department of Defense on sports franchises to guarantee certain patriotic acts.
Modern Media Spending:
Kibbe notes that federal agencies spent $1.8 billion in 2023 on discretionary advertising—with the DoD leading at $1.14 billion.

Culture Warring and Narrative Control (07:05–14:51)

Surface Distraction:
Debates around culture (e.g., “Bad Bunny vs. Kid Rock” at the halftime show) can distract from more substantive policy discussions. However, Hall emphasizes these cultural elements are vital for framing public understanding of policy.
Media & Entertainment Influence:
Hall describes Department of Defense entanglement with TV and film, swapping access and support for editorial say—a long-standing channel for guiding public sentiment.
Imperfection in Control:
Echoing lessons from their book, Hall explains that even the best-run messaging campaigns inevitably let dissent or subversion slip through, e.g. artists using mass platforms to critique U.S. policy.

“No matter how well you do, you can't get it right 100% of the time. And so you're going to have things that slip through the cracks.” (Abigail Hall, 10:43)

Information, Surveillance, and the Modern Deep State (12:58–16:09)

The Challenge of Narrative Fragmentation:
While power over information is more diffuse, Hall points out how much leverage remains through data collection—mentioning platforms like TikTok and Ring as new nodes in the surveillance apparatus.
“Rational Ignorance” and Manipulation:
Because the public often doesn’t engage deeply with policy details, strategically-timed or vague narratives are effective.

Private Sector Participation and Campaigns (16:07–19:39)

Blurring Public and Private Lines:
Kibbe and Hall discuss “hybrid” entities like super PACs that launder pro-government messaging and launder finances, complicating transparency and accountability.
Short Attention Spans:
Strategic use of reporting lags and fast-moving news cycles ensures controversial narratives fade before sources are revealed or examined.

Censorship, Safety, and Constitutional Constraints (19:39–26:38)

TikTok and Censorship:
They discuss how control over digital platforms (like the Trump administration’s TikTok maneuvers) is wielded for narrative management, especially on issues such as Israel/Gaza.
Tradeoff: Safety vs. Liberty:
In classic satirical mode, Hall voices the “company line” that temporary suppression of liberty is a necessary tradeoff for safety.

“...if people want to be safer, then they're necessarily going to have to relinquish some of those freedoms. But again, keep in mind that this is only temporary.” (Abigail Hall, 21:43)
Constitutional Obstacles:
U.S. operations at home must contend with constitutional constraints—unlike abroad, where "the Constitution doesn't follow the flag." Hall jokes about finding creative legal workarounds.

Regime Change and Foreign Policy Narratives (27:43–36:04)

Venezuela Case Study:
They break down the U.S.-backed ousting of Nicolás Maduro—replacing him with his vice president Delsey Rodriguez, who's reframed as a “moderate” despite deep regime ties.

“She's not a moderate. She's, you know, dyed in the wool... She's not a moderate. Said she was Maduro's... right hand woman. And so it's really just a shift of power.” (Abigail Hall, 31:37)
Justifying Regime Change:
Success is measured in terms of media and public acceptance, not actual change in the freedoms or conditions of local populations. Legacy media’s complicity persists, incentivized by access and "scoops."

Media Control and Transparency (36:04–42:48)

Controlling Access vs. Legacy Approaches:
Kibbe observes that the current administration’s direct control over media briefings is a cruder version of what past governments have done, but with less pretense.
Rhetoric of Military Dominance:
Hall and Kibbe analyze the chilling shift in official messaging—e.g., the Air Force’s “united, ready, and dominant” slogan.

“Those first two words are kind of expected. That last word of dominant is new in some ways... It's an expensive proposition.” (Abigail Hall, 40:35)
Debt and Perpetual War:
Funding of endless war via debt (not direct taxes or bonds) distances the public from war's real costs and consequences.

“If it's like, hey, I'm having to pay... $1,000 more in taxes, what are you doing with that? That's a lot of scrutiny for policy. If... you shift over to... debt financing... people aren't really paying attention...” (Abigail Hall, 43:24)

Economics and Cultural Communication (46:07–54:41)

Costs Born by Consumers:
Hall gives concrete examples (e.g., Florida property taxes) to illustrate how government spending and taxation eventually filter down into consumer prices and inflation—though the connections are often opaque.
Making Austrian Economics Accessible:
The episode closes discussing Hall and Coyne’s upcoming book introducing Austrian economics and Kibbe’s related project on making those ideas accessible through pop culture references.
Satirical Method and Teaching:
Hall describes delivering public presentations entirely in the “deep state” satirical persona—sometimes horrifying students before breaking character:

“I see the absolutely horrified looks on their faces... then I get to the last ten minutes where I... drop the character... this moment of what just happened here, that's awesome.” (Abigail Hall, 49:50)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Media Narratives:
“We always have to keep in mind the importance of the relationship between a lot of journalists and insiders in Washington... They need that lead, that piece of information that no one else has, and we have that information.” (Abigail Hall, 34:55)
On Surveillance:
“Ring Doorbell now is effectively connecting all of us to this absolutely beautiful surveillance apparatus.” (Abigail Hall, 13:23)
On Public Rational Ignorance:
“Getting really informed about any topic, that requires a lot of time and a lot of energy. And frankly, there's really little payoff for people to be informed.” (Abigail Hall, 18:27)
On Narrative Control and War:
“It takes a lot to get people to go along with particularly your foreign policy agenda. And so that requires a lot of resources and a lot of various kind of iterations to your public... to really get people to, even if they don't accept the policy, to at least be indifferent to it.” (Abigail Hall, 06:25)
On Constitutional Workarounds:
“…the Constitution's obviously a really big one, but you're also looking at these kind of state and local policies that are also getting in the way... Fortunately, we have a lot of experience here too of working around policies or constraints that are hindrances.” (Abigail Hall, 23:15)

Timestamps of Important Segments

Super Bowl Flyover & NFL Propaganda: 00:00–05:30
Paid Patriotism, Millions Spent: 03:33–07:05
Cultural Narrative Distraction (Bad Bunny/Kid Rock): 07:05–09:09
Entertainment & DoD Censorship: 09:09–10:25
Slipping Through Cracks (Dissent): 10:25–12:58
Surveillance & Modern Tools: 12:58–16:09
Private Sector, PACs, and Rationale: 16:09–19:39
Censorship, Safety vs. Freedom: 19:39–22:31
Constitutional Constraints on Domestic Policy: 22:31–25:08
Regime Change & Media Management (Venezuela): 27:43–36:04
Media Control—Old Methods, New Face: 36:04–39:12
Military Chest-Thumping Rhetoric: 39:12–42:48
War Funding, Taxation vs. Debt, Public Awareness: 43:24–46:07
Economic Education & Upcoming Austrian Economics Book: 51:15–54:41

Conclusion

Rich with dark comedy, ruthless economic insight, and a dissection of layered propaganda, Kibbe and Hall provide a thought-provoking, often hilarious take on the manufacturing of consent through spectacle, narrative, and control. Their satirical “deep state” act underscores the subtle and not-so-subtle forces that shape American support for war and unchecked government power—offering listeners historical context, current examples, and engaging skepticism.

Podcast Summary: Kibbe on Liberty

Episode 372 – "Deep State Operatives Won the Super Bowl"

Host: Matt Kibbe
Guest: Abigail Hall
Date: February 11, 2026

Main Theme

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Super Bowl as State Propaganda (00:00–05:30)

Costly Patriotism:
Hall shares her research on the cost of military flyovers at sports events, suggesting the Super Bowl’s elaborate spectacle likely cost upwards of $300,000.

“In terms of flight time... the ranges... were in the range of about the upper $100,000 to maybe around $300,000 for the flyover.” (Abigail Hall, 01:50)
Choreographing the Display:
The guests marvel at the flawless timing and “remarkable” choreography of the event, jokingly suggesting it's “almost too good for government work.”

“The timing of the flyover was so perfectly orchestrated. Really almost too good for government work.” (Matt Kibbe, 02:30)
NFL as a Propaganda Partner:
Discussion on how sports franchises, especially the NFL, have longstanding relationships with federal agencies for staging patriotic displays, blending public and private efforts to encourage support for government policies.

History and Mechanics of Paid Patriotism (03:33–07:05)

Deep Roots:
Hall recounts U.S. government collaborations with sports stretching back over a century (e.g., sports equipment sent to troops, local games fostering goodwill at military bases).
Paid Patriotism Exposed:
Senators McCain and Flake exposed “paid patriotism” in 2012, documenting millions spent by the Department of Defense on sports franchises to guarantee certain patriotic acts.
Modern Media Spending:
Kibbe notes that federal agencies spent $1.8 billion in 2023 on discretionary advertising—with the DoD leading at $1.14 billion.

Culture Warring and Narrative Control (07:05–14:51)

Surface Distraction:
Debates around culture (e.g., “Bad Bunny vs. Kid Rock” at the halftime show) can distract from more substantive policy discussions. However, Hall emphasizes these cultural elements are vital for framing public understanding of policy.
Media & Entertainment Influence:
Hall describes Department of Defense entanglement with TV and film, swapping access and support for editorial say—a long-standing channel for guiding public sentiment.
Imperfection in Control:
Echoing lessons from their book, Hall explains that even the best-run messaging campaigns inevitably let dissent or subversion slip through, e.g. artists using mass platforms to critique U.S. policy.

“No matter how well you do, you can't get it right 100% of the time. And so you're going to have things that slip through the cracks.” (Abigail Hall, 10:43)

Information, Surveillance, and the Modern Deep State (12:58–16:09)

The Challenge of Narrative Fragmentation:
While power over information is more diffuse, Hall points out how much leverage remains through data collection—mentioning platforms like TikTok and Ring as new nodes in the surveillance apparatus.
“Rational Ignorance” and Manipulation:
Because the public often doesn’t engage deeply with policy details, strategically-timed or vague narratives are effective.

Private Sector Participation and Campaigns (16:07–19:39)

Blurring Public and Private Lines:
Kibbe and Hall discuss “hybrid” entities like super PACs that launder pro-government messaging and launder finances, complicating transparency and accountability.
Short Attention Spans:
Strategic use of reporting lags and fast-moving news cycles ensures controversial narratives fade before sources are revealed or examined.

Censorship, Safety, and Constitutional Constraints (19:39–26:38)

TikTok and Censorship:
They discuss how control over digital platforms (like the Trump administration’s TikTok maneuvers) is wielded for narrative management, especially on issues such as Israel/Gaza.
Tradeoff: Safety vs. Liberty:
In classic satirical mode, Hall voices the “company line” that temporary suppression of liberty is a necessary tradeoff for safety.

“...if people want to be safer, then they're necessarily going to have to relinquish some of those freedoms. But again, keep in mind that this is only temporary.” (Abigail Hall, 21:43)
Constitutional Obstacles:
U.S. operations at home must contend with constitutional constraints—unlike abroad, where "the Constitution doesn't follow the flag." Hall jokes about finding creative legal workarounds.

Regime Change and Foreign Policy Narratives (27:43–36:04)

Venezuela Case Study:
They break down the U.S.-backed ousting of Nicolás Maduro—replacing him with his vice president Delsey Rodriguez, who's reframed as a “moderate” despite deep regime ties.

“She's not a moderate. She's, you know, dyed in the wool... She's not a moderate. Said she was Maduro's... right hand woman. And so it's really just a shift of power.” (Abigail Hall, 31:37)
Justifying Regime Change:
Success is measured in terms of media and public acceptance, not actual change in the freedoms or conditions of local populations. Legacy media’s complicity persists, incentivized by access and "scoops."

Media Control and Transparency (36:04–42:48)

Controlling Access vs. Legacy Approaches:
Kibbe observes that the current administration’s direct control over media briefings is a cruder version of what past governments have done, but with less pretense.
Rhetoric of Military Dominance:
Hall and Kibbe analyze the chilling shift in official messaging—e.g., the Air Force’s “united, ready, and dominant” slogan.

“Those first two words are kind of expected. That last word of dominant is new in some ways... It's an expensive proposition.” (Abigail Hall, 40:35)
Debt and Perpetual War:
Funding of endless war via debt (not direct taxes or bonds) distances the public from war's real costs and consequences.

“If it's like, hey, I'm having to pay... $1,000 more in taxes, what are you doing with that? That's a lot of scrutiny for policy. If... you shift over to... debt financing... people aren't really paying attention...” (Abigail Hall, 43:24)

Economics and Cultural Communication (46:07–54:41)

Costs Born by Consumers:
Hall gives concrete examples (e.g., Florida property taxes) to illustrate how government spending and taxation eventually filter down into consumer prices and inflation—though the connections are often opaque.
Making Austrian Economics Accessible:
The episode closes discussing Hall and Coyne’s upcoming book introducing Austrian economics and Kibbe’s related project on making those ideas accessible through pop culture references.
Satirical Method and Teaching:
Hall describes delivering public presentations entirely in the “deep state” satirical persona—sometimes horrifying students before breaking character:

“I see the absolutely horrified looks on their faces... then I get to the last ten minutes where I... drop the character... this moment of what just happened here, that's awesome.” (Abigail Hall, 49:50)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Media Narratives:
“We always have to keep in mind the importance of the relationship between a lot of journalists and insiders in Washington... They need that lead, that piece of information that no one else has, and we have that information.” (Abigail Hall, 34:55)
On Surveillance:
“Ring Doorbell now is effectively connecting all of us to this absolutely beautiful surveillance apparatus.” (Abigail Hall, 13:23)
On Public Rational Ignorance:
“Getting really informed about any topic, that requires a lot of time and a lot of energy. And frankly, there's really little payoff for people to be informed.” (Abigail Hall, 18:27)
On Narrative Control and War:
“It takes a lot to get people to go along with particularly your foreign policy agenda. And so that requires a lot of resources and a lot of various kind of iterations to your public... to really get people to, even if they don't accept the policy, to at least be indifferent to it.” (Abigail Hall, 06:25)
On Constitutional Workarounds:
“…the Constitution's obviously a really big one, but you're also looking at these kind of state and local policies that are also getting in the way... Fortunately, we have a lot of experience here too of working around policies or constraints that are hindrances.” (Abigail Hall, 23:15)

Timestamps of Important Segments

Super Bowl Flyover & NFL Propaganda: 00:00–05:30
Paid Patriotism, Millions Spent: 03:33–07:05
Cultural Narrative Distraction (Bad Bunny/Kid Rock): 07:05–09:09
Entertainment & DoD Censorship: 09:09–10:25
Slipping Through Cracks (Dissent): 10:25–12:58
Surveillance & Modern Tools: 12:58–16:09
Private Sector, PACs, and Rationale: 16:09–19:39
Censorship, Safety vs. Freedom: 19:39–22:31
Constitutional Constraints on Domestic Policy: 22:31–25:08
Regime Change & Media Management (Venezuela): 27:43–36:04
Media Control—Old Methods, New Face: 36:04–39:12
Military Chest-Thumping Rhetoric: 39:12–42:48
War Funding, Taxation vs. Debt, Public Awareness: 43:24–46:07
Economic Education & Upcoming Austrian Economics Book: 51:15–54:41

wavePod

Ep 372 | Deep State Operatives Won the Super Bowl | Guest: Abigail Hall

Powered by Wave AI

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kibbe on Liberty

Episode 372 – "Deep State Operatives Won the Super Bowl"

Main Theme

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Super Bowl as State Propaganda (00:00–05:30)

History and Mechanics of Paid Patriotism (03:33–07:05)

Culture Warring and Narrative Control (07:05–14:51)

Information, Surveillance, and the Modern Deep State (12:58–16:09)

Private Sector Participation and Campaigns (16:07–19:39)

Censorship, Safety, and Constitutional Constraints (19:39–26:38)

Regime Change and Foreign Policy Narratives (27:43–36:04)

Media Control and Transparency (36:04–42:48)

Economics and Cultural Communication (46:07–54:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps of Important Segments

Conclusion

Further Reading & Resources

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kibbe on Liberty

Episode 372 – "Deep State Operatives Won the Super Bowl"

Main Theme

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Super Bowl as State Propaganda (00:00–05:30)

History and Mechanics of Paid Patriotism (03:33–07:05)

Culture Warring and Narrative Control (07:05–14:51)

Information, Surveillance, and the Modern Deep State (12:58–16:09)

Private Sector Participation and Campaigns (16:07–19:39)

Censorship, Safety, and Constitutional Constraints (19:39–26:38)

Regime Change and Foreign Policy Narratives (27:43–36:04)

Media Control and Transparency (36:04–42:48)

Economics and Cultural Communication (46:07–54:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps of Important Segments

Conclusion

Further Reading & Resources