Ep 375 | Will 'Discombobulator' Be Used On Americans? | Guest: Steve Baker

Summary

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Kibbe on Liberty Ep 375 | “Will ‘Discombobulator’ Be Used On Americans?”

Host: Matt Kibbe | Guest: Steve Baker
Date: March 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the growing reality of directed energy weapons—often previously chalked up as “conspiracy theory” fodder—and their potential deployment not just abroad, but against Americans on U.S. soil. Matt Kibbe brings journalist Steve Baker back for a follow-up, one year after their first conversation about the mysterious “discombobulator” weapons, which have since been publicly acknowledged by President Trump and described as operational. The conversation ranges from hard-won reporting, official leaks, and Cold War history, to profound warnings about government overreach and the lack of public debate and congressional oversight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Directed Energy Weapons: From Conspiracy to Reality

• Definition & Evolution

  • Steve Baker clarifies the terminology: “The typical phrase used is directed energy weapons because that then encompasses all the various technologies... There's the audio or sound version... the microwave version... and a new laser technology now also creates similar effects.” [02:46]
  • These weapons, once speculative, have now been confirmed by President Trump and others as real and actively used tools of war.

• Recent Use in Venezuela

  • President Trump referenced the “discombobulator” weapon used during the U.S. operation to extract Nicolas Maduro, boasting:

    “Made enemy equipment not work... Preventing Russian and Chinese rockets from launching and disabling defenses. So they pressed buttons and nothing worked. Nobody else has it. We have weapons nobody else knows about. It's amazing.” [05:09]

  • A Venezuelan soldier described the personal effects: head pain, immediate incapacitation, and soldiers “vomiting blood.” [12:20]

2. Mechanisms & Effects

• Specific Capability

  • According to a three-star SOCOM commander (as quoted by Baker):

    “With it, we can stop your heart. We can make you shit your pants.” [10:02]

  • Effects depend on tuning frequencies: can cause agitation, crowd disruption, severe physical symptoms, or even death. [09:31]

• Forms & Deployments

  • Larger truck-mounted “DEW” (Directed Energy Weapons) crowd dispersal tools have been public knowledge for some time.
  • Miniaturization now allows for “backpack size” units—more maneuverable and easily deployed, even covertly. [08:22]

3. Public and Political Reckoning

• Skepticism to Acceptance

  • Kibbe observes the acceleration of ideas moving from conspiracy to reality:

    “What is the average time between crazy conspiracy theorists to, ‘you were right about everything’? …it's hyper-compressed now.” [03:37]

  • Baker notes the normalization of public reporting by independent “citizen sleuths.” [03:52]

• Congressional Hearing

  • In May 2024, a bipartisan congressional hearing addressed concerns about these weapons. Baker reports that “legislators that are concerned about this on both sides of the aisle, very concerned about it.” [15:49]
  • Testimonies suggest reported use on Americans and international cases.

4. Deployment Against Americans: Fact or Fear?

• January 6th and Civil Liberties

  • Kibbe raises civil libertarian concerns:

    “The problem with all this… I'm concerned that these same weapons can and will and perhaps already have been deployed against American citizens practicing their First Amendment right.” [11:23]

  • Steve Baker and partners have searched for evidence that such weapons were used on January 6, specifically by scanning for “backpack” devices in the crowd. [17:35]

• Evidence So Far

  • No direct evidence yet of DEWs being used on 1/6, but LRAD 100x (a loud, high-decibel broadcast device) was present, though “not used properly.” [22:10, 23:07]
  • Some court cases suggest protestors acted utterly unlike themselves, fueling speculation about possible non-lethal agitation technologies.

• Color Revolutions and Domestic Use

  • Baker: Such weapons have been used historically in foreign “color revolutions” to ramp up agitation and violence, and he believes “the possibility that they’re being used domestically is extremely high.” [31:32]
  • Kibbe contextualizes with comparisons to MK Ultra and warnings about “domestic terrorist” labeling as pretext for extreme government action. [23:58, 33:59]

5. Ethical, Legal, and Practical Dilemmas

• Dark Side of Innovation

  • Baker recounts a specialist’s chilling warning:

    “You already know too... much, but you also have no... clue what the capabilities are.” [13:58]

  • Baker considers the risk that, once developed for national security, “these same weapons can and will and perhaps already have been deployed against American citizens.” [11:23]

• Whistleblower Ambivalence

  • Some developers are conflicted—seeing utility against foreign threats, but fearing domestic misuse. Baker describes a “black bag” meeting where a developer says the quiet part out loud:

    “Fuck, we never thought of that.” [33:48]

6. Historical Parallels and Precedents

• Comparison to Cold War Projects

  • References to Soviet and Western research into “psychotronic and psychotropic weapons.” [25:47]
  • Western acquisition of Soviet technology after the USSR fell, likened to “Operation Paperclip” after WWII. [27:36]

• The Havana Syndrome

  • Likely related to these technologies, involving U.S. diplomats suffering mysterious illness abroad. The CIA refuses to fully acknowledge its existence, but documentation exists on their site. [20:15]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Effects:

  “With it, we can stop your heart. We can make you shit your pants.”
  — Steve Baker quoting SOCOM commander [10:02]

• Presidential Boast:

  “We have weapons nobody else knows about. It's amazing.”
  — President Trump (reported by Kibbe) [05:09]

• Chilling Expert Warning:

  “You already know too fucking much. But you also have no fucking clue what the capabilities are.”
  — Developer/Special Ops Doctor to Steve Baker [14:10]

• On Developer Accountability:

  “Fuck, we never thought of that.”
  — DEW developer on (potential for) domestic abuse [33:48]

• On the Inevitable Abuse of Power:

  “Good people create these new powers and they never think about the consequences.”
  — Matt Kibbe [33:59]

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• [02:46] – Definitions: Directed energy, audio, microwave, and laser weapons
• [05:09] – President Trump’s acknowledgment of the “discombobulator” in Venezuela
• [09:31] – SOCOM commander on the effects: heart stoppage, incontinence
• [12:20] – Venezuelan soldier describes incapacitation, vomiting blood
• [15:49] – Bipartisan Congressional concern and public hearing
• [17:35] – Investigating January 6 for evidence of DEW deployment
• [20:15] – Havana Syndrome explained and related to these technologies
• [22:10] – No evidence of DEWs on 1/6, but LRAD 100x deployed
• [23:58] – Historical reference: Operation/Project Artichoke and MK Ultra
• [25:47] – Soviet, American, and British developmental history
• [31:32] – Belief that agitation weapons are likely used domestically
• [33:48] – Developer’s shock at potential for domestic political abuse
• [33:59] – “Good people create these new powers…”: On the inevitability of misuse

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Closing Thoughts

Steve Baker and Matt Kibbe express deep concern about the normalization of next-generation weaponry for domestic crowd control, the potential for abuse by unaccountable agencies, and the absence of grassroots or political leadership demanding transparency.

Kibbe ends with a call for “radical transparency” and citizen vigilance, warning:

“If you’re a domestic terrorist, all bets are off. And I think... that's why radical transparency is the only answer to this threat.” [34:48]

Baker’s work on these issues can be found at TheBlaze.com and on X @SteveBakerUSA. The episode closes with the hope that awareness—and continued independent reporting—can slow the drift toward Orwellian abuses of these technologies.

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Transcript

[Matt Kibbe]

Welcome to Kibbe on Liberty. I'm talking to my friend Steve Baker, a follow up on an episode we did about a year ago and what now President Trump himself calls the discombobulator. Energy weapons, sonic weapons, weapons that could in fact be deployed against American citizens. Check it out. Welcome to kibby at liberty, Steve. Welcome back, Matt.

[Steve Baker]

It's good to be back. Believe me when I say it's good to be back.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah, it's. I want to follow up on the last conversation we had, which was actually almost a year ago, maybe even more than a year ago, about these mysterious weapons, energy and sonic type weapons that you had been reporting on at the time. And also follow up on the Brian Cole case, the alleged pipe bomber, and how that doesn't really add up. And let's do this in two separate episodes because there's such disparate conversations. But there's for reference, people watching this, I think February of last year, we did a deep dive on these mysterious weapons that our government was apparently deploying. There was a lot of speculation at the time and now it's a lot less speculative. And more importantly, in late November of last year, you did an extensive interview with Thomas Massie, who had picked up. Again, he's busy. I don't know if you know this, but he's. I've noticed he's got several irons in the fire. But he had been one of the original skeptics of the government's narrative about the pipe bomber and you. And he picked it up again in November. But that'll be the second episode. If you guys are watching, we'll do that separately just because they're very different issues. As far as we know, there may

[Steve Baker]

even be connective tissue.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah, why not? But speaking of radical conspiracy theories, the last time you were on talking about these energy and sonic weapons. What's the right phrase, by the way? Am I saying the right thing?

[Steve Baker]

Yeah. The typical phrase used is directed energy weapons because that then encompasses all the various technologies. There's the audio or sound version of the weapons. There's the microwave version of the weapons. And recently, very recently, working and speaking directly with one of our sources that is part of the development of. Involved in the development of these weapons. There is a new laser technology that they're able to do even some of the same effects on the battlefield.

[Matt Kibbe]

Have you told Marjorie Taylor Greene about the space lasers? No, I haven't done that. What is the average time between crazy conspiracy theorists to. You were right about everything. Is this like 24 months? What's the life cycle of.

[Steve Baker]

It's compressing. Yeah, I mean, obviously. I mean, we used to. Now we're all saying, you know, Ron Paul was right about everything, but I think we're referencing things that he was telling us 25 years ago. Right, right, right. But it's hyper compressed now.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah. And this I can find optimism. And all of this pessimism you're about to shed on us because we have all of these citizen sleuths, yourself included. I guess you're not a citizen anymore, you're an actual reporter, but you guys have the ability to dig into the details of things without permission from either big media or the government.

[Steve Baker]

Yeah, I was digging into this before I had a paycheck to dig into this. It was something that was costing me money out of my pocket to learn and discover and work my way into the channels, the sources, the networks that understand how these things work.

[Matt Kibbe]

And that's a more typical story now, like the news comes from people that are not paid by anybody, not making money doing it. They just have a passion for, I would say love of country, but certainly a passion for the truth. But I want to start by quoting the president and pointing out that certain members of my production team were skeptical when you were talking about these crazy conspiracy theory weapons last time. But we'll see if we can convince him. He knows who I'm talking about.

[Steve Baker]

We should ask which part of the story elicited the skepticism.

[Matt Kibbe]

Well, let's ask him at the end of this episode if he's now convinced. But I want to start with a quote from the president. And this was a day or two, maybe the day after US forces, I'll say, invaded Venezuela and extracted Nicolas Maduro and brought him back to the United States. And this is what President Trump says, the discombobulator. I'm not going to talk about it. And then he proceeds to talk about it. Made enemy equipment not work. Preventing. This is from the New York Post, and there's some of it is a quote from him. And some of it is summarizing made enemy equipment not work. Preventing Russian and Chinese rockets from launching and disabling defenses. So they pressed buttons and nothing worked. Nobody else has it. We have weapons nobody else knows about. It's amazing. In another statement, he hinted at a secret sonic. That's in quotes. Secret sonic weapon. It's something I don't want to. Nobody else has it, but we have weapons unlike anyone has ever seen. So it's interesting because this is super secret. But Trump can't resist. Sort of bragging about this technology. And then around the same time, his press secretary, Carolyn Levitt posted this interview with a Venezuelan soldier who was part of the elite guard assigned with defending Nicolas Maduro, talking about the experience of feeling these weapons and how it immediately decapacitated all of Nicolas Maduro's troops. So I guess you're not crazy.

[Steve Baker]

I'm not crazy. I think that Trump was probably just as surprised as most Americans would be something certainly he's not spent time studying, he certainly has not spent the time that I've spent learning about them over several years interviewing the people that actually have participated in the development of these particular projects and weapon systems. So he probably, when he learned about it and got to watch the use of them on his Situation Room was learning about them then. And maybe he thought that they were super secret, but they're not super secret. And that's the part that is interesting when you're trying to convey this to maybe a skeptic is that we've known about it for a long time. And in fact you can go to the CIA's own website and go to their FOIA dump website, just do word searches in there and you can find out what they were learning about the Russians development of these weapons all the way back in the mid to late 50s.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah, so what, what actually happened in your understanding? What, what happened in Venezuela? What, what do we know about what weapons were deployed?

[Steve Baker]

What I, and I am going to tell you that I have not spoken to any of my sources since the Venezuelan event. I have not asked them specifically what weapons were used. But in the lead up to that, I know what I know and I know what they have shared with me in terms of what has been available and has been largely available to our special forces, particular the higher end operatives for a long time, you know, even, even going back to the 90s. But they've certainly become more miniaturized, better, better batteries, which means more power, that sort of thing. And, and the miniaturization has allowed these, these weapons to become backpack size and they've also become so highly, I'm using a word, specifically tuned because that's what it is. When you tune the frequencies properly, they can elicit different effects on the battlefield against your enemies.

[Matt Kibbe]

Talk about those effects. What, what can we do to people with these weapons?

[Steve Baker]

I think I probably said this the last time we were together. I interviewed a three star commander of socom and what he said to me this was, it wasn't off the record, it was certainly background conversation that I had. But he said, he, he said to me, he said, yes, we have such a weapon. And I was specifically speaking about the backpack version of the weapon and the exact quote. With it we can stop you har.

[Matt Kibbe]

We can.

[Steve Baker]

With it we can stop your heart. We can make you shit your pants. Now, I was asking him specifically about the possibility of those being used on January 6th to agitate a crowd because the actual operatives have referred this to me as an agitation weapon or that it can be used in such a manner. And so I was asking him about that. And so to finish his phrase, because I need to have the entire quote in context, he said, yes, we have such a weapon. With it, we can stop your heart, we can shit your pants. But I would not have needed it on January 6th. I would have only needed four or five of my best men to make January 6th happen. Now, what did he admit to right there?

[Matt Kibbe]

Thank you for joining me today on

[Free the People Announcer]

Kibbe on Liberty and for being part of our fiercely independent audience. Every week, my organization, Free the People, partners with BlazeTV to bring you this show. My guests bring smart perspectives on everything from current events to timeless philosophical debates. If you like what you hear, go to freethepeople.org kol and support Kibbe on Liberty so we can continue to produce these honest conversations with interesting people. Now, let's get back to it.

[Matt Kibbe]

And I want to get into. This is obviously the, the, the concern with me and as a, as a civil libertarian, I hear about these, these weapons and I immediately think, well, in the abstract it'd be great if we had a way to decapacitate people invading our country, attacking our country. But the, the problem with all this, and I'm speaking to you, Peter Thiel Palantir, you, Palmer Luckey Andrel, when you create all of these technologies and give them to our government in the name of national defense, I'm concerned that these same weapons can and will and perhaps already have been deployed against American citizens practicing their First Amendment right to peacefully protest, for instance. Maybe that hasn't happened yet, but it's inevitable that it might happen if we don't sort of expose it for what it is. I guess the President's already let the cat out of the bag, so it's safe to talk about this stuff now. But the video that Carolyn Levitt published, I guess it was an acknowledgement that it was true. The Venezuelan soldier talked about his head feeling like it was going to explode and the people around him, the soldiers around him vomiting blood. So this is pretty intense stuff. Yeah.

[Steve Baker]

I recently Went through a health episode myself. You're aware of the Sunday before Christmas.

[Matt Kibbe]

And by the way, I feel like you blamed me specifically because we might have been having cocktails before that happened.

[Steve Baker]

Yeah, three days. Three days beforehand there was a Christmas party at an undisclosed location here in the District. But, yeah, three days later, I had acute heart failure. And I immediately received a call from an individual who is a doctor who has been participating for quite a number of years on the various highest level in the development and fine tuning of these types of weapons as a doctor and what they can do and all of the things that go with that. And I had interviewed him a couple of years ago. It wasn't the first time I met him. We had met in social situations two or three times, first of all, for him to get comfortable with me. And then he finally agreed to meet with me. And when we got together, our phones went into a black Faraday bag and were put aside and turned off. And the first thing that he said to me at that time, he said, the only reason that I have agreed to meet with you, and I'm going to use his language, he comes from the special, you know, operatives community. But he said, the only reason I agreed to meet with you is because you already know too fucking much. He said, but you also have no fucking clue what the capabilities are. Fast forward two years later to this event that I went through a couple days before Christmas. And he called me to check on me, see how I was doing. And what he said to me was, he said, it is the most highly remote and unlikely possibility that your situation is connected, that this has been used on you. Although he said, what concerns me is we do have a new version of the weapon that can do exactly what happened to you.

[Matt Kibbe]

Wow.

[Steve Baker]

And so we had quite a lengthy conversation about this. I'm still, in terms of tinfoil hat ism, I'm not there. Look, I'm 65 years old. Happens. You know,

[Matt Kibbe]

I've seen your health regimen, so.

[Steve Baker]

Right, right.

[Matt Kibbe]

Although I believe that there are very important medicinal values in bourbon, I really do.

[Steve Baker]

Yes. Yeah, there is that.

[Matt Kibbe]

We'll do a different show on that.

[Steve Baker]

Right. But to answer your question more specifically, yeah, this cat has long been out of the bag. It just hasn't been normalized in everyday conversation. But it's getting that there was a congressional hearing in May of 24 on this very topic. It's a very nonpartisan issue, by the way. We have legislators that are concerned about this on both sides of the aisle, very concerned about it. And There is reported use of these weapons against American citizens on U.S. soil. And this has also been testified about in Congress. We know that this is happening from my sources inside the Special Forces, special operators community, intelligence community. And then as I said, I have been able to and been really lucky, blessed, honored, whatever, to have interviewed people at the highest levels in our military that have told me that, yes, this is something that is prolifically used now.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah. So by the way, I don't want to necessarily go down this rabbit hole because I don't really have any facts, but when, when you had your heart events, I immediately thought about Andrew Breitbart, who was a friend of mine and dropped dead suddenly while causing all sorts of trouble. I think he was 53, something like that of an acute heart attack. But let's talk about, let's remind people about the potential implications for January 6th because you've, you were looking through that crowd for the backpacks.

[Steve Baker]

Yes, I was and have been for a long time. I've, I've known about this technology for several years. And it was specifically because of January 6th that I learned a particular unit of our Department of War, now they call it at the time Department of Defense.

[Matt Kibbe]

Truth in advertising.

[Steve Baker]

Yes, yes. Have great familiarity with the backpack size version of this weapon. Now the one that most people are familiar with and you can go on YouTube and you can see it are these big truck mounted, what they call dew. Typically they're either microwave or they're sub audio weapons. They've got big disk antennas that broadcast into a crowd. They were designed for crowd dispersal, riot dispersal, that sort of thing. But also the larger ones could be used on the battlefield because they can hit you with an instant pulse of microwaves and you think you're on fire, you're not. But it literally has that effect of lighting up your skin or made of water and that water boils really quick under those circumstances. And they can do that on a battlefield. That's one version. Then you have the sub audio which is outside of the typical human hearing range, where they can also at certain frequencies pulse energy at such a high and intense low end frequency that they, depending upon where it tunes, they can affect your brain, your heart, your lungs, your kidneys, whatever. It's literally a tuning mechanism that can affect different parts of your body. These are the things that one in particular is one that's really suspected to be part of the Havana Syndrome. It's highly directional and it can be used against a singular target coming in and out of an office building or something like that you can get away from them. That's why these people who that claim to be victims of, what do they call it? There's a lot of people out there, it's quite a growing society of individuals who believe that they are particularly targeted in their skulls with these government energy weapons. But they can't get away from them. Well, that's just not true. You can. The experts who I've interviewed have said no. These guys are probably dealing with other psychological issues.

[Matt Kibbe]

It's locational. Yes, yeah, yeah, quickly, for people that don't know about Havana syndrome, explain that.

[Steve Baker]

Yeah, it basically it popped up quite a few years ago. We had our, you know, foreign services people, particularly State department individuals as well as CIA individuals that worked in foreign territories. Havana for one, and then other jurisdictions abroad where they were reporting severe illness. It could be anything from nausea to confusion, memory loss. And these were happening either periodically or extended periods of time or they became acute and they have been completely disabled by them. Fast forward years later and now you have a whole bunch of attorneys here in D.C. working on this issue, trying to get these individuals compensated, sated for something that doesn't exist. And to this day the CIA still doesn't admit that it exists. Even though as I said earlier, you can go to their website and go, oh well shit, it exists.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah, yeah.

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[Matt Kibbe]

I want to get into. You mentioned congressional concern and oversight, but is there any evidence or speculation that these weapons were in fact deployed on January 6?

[Steve Baker]

I have absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever. Except for the LRAD 100x is the only weapon that we have seen and identified in the crowd. I caught it on my own camera that day. I'm standing right in front, in fact I'm standing at one point, I was standing in front of one. As close as I am to you right now. Now the operators who set it up, which was from Metropolitan Police Department, this is a device that is, it's not a sub audio device, it's a device that in a very, very small package can produce incredibly loud crowd clearing audio. All right. Whoever was using it, didn't know how to use was. I'm standing right in front of it with my camera and it sounds like just somebody talking through a, you know, PA system.

[Matt Kibbe]

That is that encouraging or scary?

[Steve Baker]

I, you know, I don't know. And that's the one thing that we have, we have continued to look for for is I have variously been told that that particular device can be converted to sub audio. I know enough about music and audio through my 40 plus year career in music to know that I don't believe that it can create the sub audio tones necessary to create to be used as an agitation weapon. I just know that that weapon at the time as a crowd clearing device was not used properly. We also know that there were others that were in the crowd. Probably the same LRAD 100x device that were never taken out of the backpacks because we have identified the backpacks.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah, so I'm thinking about there was a recently declassified CIA document about something called. I think it was Operation Artichoke. Is that right? Either Operation Artichoke or Project Artichoke, I forget. But it was Artichoke. And Artichoke was this idea that you would. It's a precursor to MK Ultra. And it was the CIA speculating as to how they might mass dose people to manipulate their behavior. And they even speculated that we could do it through vaccines. And I only bring that up because I think it's wildly naive to think that, you know, there was the church commission and we are all told that MK ULTRA doesn't exist anymore. It was put to bed in the late 70s. Obviously Operation Artichoke doesn't exist anymore. But we should be keenly aware that our government, and particularly these intelligence agencies who seem mostly unaccountable, have a long history of doing it. So we should be rationally paranoid about what they might do to deploy this against American citizens practicing their God given rights. Particularly when it comes to protesting tyrannical government. I'm not talking about January 6th. I'm talking about some future event. As a former Tea Party organizer, it scares the hell out of me that they might just shut down peaceful dissent because it's inconvenient. Tell me about what's going on in Congress and who is actually leading the fight to get honesty and clarity on this stuff.

[Steve Baker]

I don't know that there's anybody leading the fight, but I do want to go back really quick and address something you just said. As I mentioned earlier, the Russians have been involved in the Development of these types of weapons, and more specifically the type that you kind of bumped into with MK Ultra, that sort of thing back in the 50s, they called them psychotronic and psychotropic weapons. And this was a convergence or the use of biologicals as well as psychotropic type drugs in connection with directed energy to create certain effects in the body. All the way back to the 50s, we were able to go back ourselves in our own research. And when I say we, myself and a couple of partners of mine, one being Joe Hanneman, he who co writes with me very often with the Blaze, and we have been able to dig up a lot of information about how these types of weapons were used by the British in the early 70s against the Irish, Northern Ireland. We were able to see how they were used in the 80s. And then we learned that it was at the fall of the Soviet Union that all of the government scientists, special forces people, generals that had access to this technology began selling it on the open market. So our, you know, industrial military complex people were over there. I mean, we basically had an invasion ourselves of Russia at the time with a lot of cash and a lot of money buying up these technologies, which is where we first purchased a backpack sized version of that weapon.

[Matt Kibbe]

So a merger?

[Steve Baker]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Kibbe]

I'm thinking of Operation Paperclip. I've gone down these rabbit holes of, you know, we hired all these Nazi scientists after World War II and it sounds like the same thing happened after the fall of the Soviet Union.

[Steve Baker]

Yeah, it did. And then now to get to your last question about who's the champion on the Hill? I don't think that there is a singular champion. There are people that are certainly interested. It's exotic. I mean, it's kind of like UAPs. How much of this do we really want to buy into or not? How much of this is going to affect our daily life? And if it's not, then what? You know, what's the point? You know, gas prices, egg prices, things of that nature, the tax rate affects our daily life. Do these other things really bother us? And I think that when we understand what's happening on the streets of America right now, when you look at Portland, Seattle, New York, Minneapolis, D.C. january 6, you see the possibility that the same types of not only technologies are being used to agitate crowds more easily, more quickly, or particularly individuals to throw themselves into and do things that they never, you know, wanted to do or intended to do in a protest situation. And that was the, that was the interesting part about January 6th is that we have incredible number of testimonies, particularly considering there were hundreds and hundreds of court cases where individuals. And I'm talking about military veterans, law enforcement veterans, first responders of all types, people that are used to stress, used to being in violence, never slapped their wife around or their children around at home. But they caught themselves doing things on January 6th. They would have never. And with tears in these trials or in their sentencing hearings, tears flowing down their face. Your Honor, I've never done this before in my life. I don't know why I did that.

[Matt Kibbe]

Wow. Wow.

[Steve Baker]

So I have to look. I haven't found it yet, but looking for fort has opened other doors.

[Matt Kibbe]

Well, let's wrap this up. But a final thought on this. We've complained a lot over the years about the militarization of the police. And so much of this is driven by the military industrial complex making extra wartime stuff. The combat vehicles and all the. All the black wartime gear. Now that. That's quite typical. You see police officers wearing this stuff. We're going to normalize the fact that that Capitol Hill police officer will eventually learn how to press that button and figure out how to use these things. And to me, it's extremely Orwellian that law enforcement would be able to deploy these kinds of things without any sort of ethical or legal questions or barriers to whether or not it's justified, whether or not it's appropriate. Because power corrupts.

[Free the People Announcer]

Right.

[Steve Baker]

Well, we know that the quote, unquote agitation weapon. This is a phrase that I didn't make up. This is a phrase told to me by special operators in our intelligence community and Department of Defense who told me of this particular version of the weapon. They have been used overseas in color revolution operations to elicit agitation and violence in crowds. Tuned properly, that's what it does and can do. Tuned another way, it can stop your heart, make you shit your pants.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah.

[Steve Baker]

And they believe, and as retired operators, that the possibility that they're being used domestically is extremely high right now because of a particular rogue organization in our government.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah, there's. I was, I was going to mention color revolutions because when you see, you know, what's going on in Minneapolis, it kind of looks like exactly what we would do overseas.

[Steve Baker]

The individual I told you about, the doctor that has participated in the development and testing of these weapons. When I met with him that time, I told you about black bag meeting. When he told me that there was still much I didn't know and didn't understand. And the reason why he met with me is he was actually trying to Talk me down from going public with this information. He said, there's still enough national security interest and there's still enough good use of these weapons. Maybe we saw that in Venezuela. There's enough good use for God and country to not reveal these technologies to the world, especially the very particulars that they can do. And he was trying to talk me out of it, of going forward publicly, to which I then asked him. And I said this to him. I said, if we're Talking about Navy SEALs, Delta Force operators, things of that nature. Nature. I said, they're probably 85, 90% Trump supporters, conservative Republicans, MAGA, even. I said, is that a fair number? And he sitting across the table from me, yeah, that's fair. I said, but the unit you come from, it's probably more like only 60%. And he goes, 45. And I said, okay. Couldn't you be convinced that you're doing the work of God and country to use those to end a political career of some type or to create a situation even domestically, like a January 6th?

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah.

[Steve Baker]

And this is exactly what's his reaction. He. He went, fuck, we never thought of that.

[Matt Kibbe]

Yeah, they never think of that stuff. Like good people create these new powers and they never think about the consequences. I've talked a lot with you, but with everybody, this casual use of the phrase domestic terrorist, that certainly didn't start on January 6th. It certainly goes back to the early days of the Tea Party, when organizing for Obama called tea partiers domestic terrorists. The Biden Justice Department called moms complaining at school board meetings domestic terrorists. And if you're a domestic terrorist, you know, forget what you did. If you're a domestic terrorist, all bets are off. And I think. I think that's why radical transparency is the only answer to this threat.

[Steve Baker]

I agree.

[Matt Kibbe]

So tell us, we'll do this again for the second episode, which we're going to go right into, but tell us where they can find your reporting on

[Steve Baker]

this subject right [e-mail] theblaze.com and of course, I'm on X@Steve Baker USA. And so that's where I do most of my rabble rousing.

[Matt Kibbe]

And to be clear, you're not feeling suicidal today?

[Steve Baker]

I am not feeling suicidal. I. I feel great. As a matter of fact, even after my heart episode, I'm doing really well.

[Matt Kibbe]

All right. Hopefully it stays that way. Thank you, Steve. Thanks.

[Free the People Announcer]

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[Matt Kibbe]

Sa.