Listen Now: How Do You Cope? - Kill List

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kill List – Episode: "Listen Now: How Do You Cope?"

Release Date: March 10, 2025
Host: John Robbins
Guest: Justin Hawkins (Lead Singer of The Darkness)

Introduction

In the episode titled "Listen Now: How Do You Cope?" from the Kill List podcast by Wondery | Novel, host John Robbins engages in a candid conversation with Justin Hawkins, the charismatic frontman of the rock band The Darkness. The episode delves deep into Justin’s personal battles with drug and alcohol addiction, his journey through rehabilitation, and the profound impact these experiences had on his music career and personal life.

Controlling the Narrative

00:00 – 02:03

John Robbins sets the stage by introducing the podcast's theme of exploring human resilience and coping mechanisms. He emphasizes the importance of discussing both struggles and the subsequent hope that emerges from overcoming them.

Justin Hawkins opens up about the challenges of maintaining control over his personal narrative amidst public scrutiny. He reflects on how society often indulges in voyeurism regarding celebrities' downfalls without offering genuine support.

Justin Hawkins [02:03]:
"There's a morbid voyeurism about people who do what I do, because we like to go, oh, look at them, they're fucked up, aren't they? But at no point do they try to help. They'd rather watch it unravel."

Experience with Addiction and Rehabilitation

02:03 – 07:47

Justin recounts his descent into addiction, detailing his heavy drug use during the early years of his career with The Darkness. He candidly discusses an interview where he humorously exaggerated his drug expenses, which inadvertently cast him as a poster child for rehabilitation—a label he found frustrating as his primary passion was music, not advocacy.

Transitioning out of rehab, Justin describes the intensive 28-day residential program he underwent. He highlights the various therapeutic approaches he engaged in, including group therapy and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR).

Justin Hawkins [05:04]:
"It was residential, cut off, surrounded by people from all different walks of life... I did some EMDR and other types of guidance."

John probes into whether Justin had a support team to reintegrate into the music scene post-rehab. Justin explains that instead of following typical aftercare protocols, he chose to distance himself entirely from his previous social circles to prioritize his sobriety.

Justin Hawkins [07:47]:
"It's been 18 years on coming up to 19 years now, and it's because for the first five or six years, I kept out of everybody's way... I couldn't do it then, probably wouldn't have survived it."

Impact of Sobriety on Career and Personal Life

07:47 – 09:06

Justin emphasizes that his decision to isolate himself was pivotal in maintaining his sobriety. By removing himself from environments and relationships that could jeopardize his recovery, he was able to continue his passion for music without falling back into old habits.

He sheds light on the internal struggle between his dedication to music and the temptations of substance abuse, illustrating the thin line artists often walk between creativity and self-destruction.

The Role of Drugs in The Darkness' Success

09:06 – 12:04

Delving into the intertwined relationship between his music and substance use, Justin narrates how initially experimenting with drugs provided him with a surge in confidence, which he deemed as "performance-enhancing." This reliance quickly morphed into dependency, becoming a cornerstone of his onstage persona.

He reflects on how the high-energy, adrenaline-fueled environment of the music industry can make addiction seem almost advantageous, as it temporarily boosts performance and creativity.

Justin Hawkins [11:30]:
"It was preposterous. It was a performance-enhancing drug in those first moments of experimentation."

However, Justin acknowledges the unsustainable nature of this reliance, recognizing that true success and longevity in his career were only achievable through sobriety and self-control.

Conclusion and Key Insights

Throughout the episode, Justin Hawkins provides an unfiltered look into the challenges faced by artists in balancing their personal battles with public expectations. His journey underscores the importance of mental health, the strength required to reclaim one's narrative, and the profound impact of making conscious choices to prioritize well-being over fleeting successes.

Key Takeaways:

Control Over Narrative: Taking charge of one's story is crucial, especially in the face of public adversity.
Isolation for Recovery: Sometimes distancing oneself from toxic environments is necessary for sustained sobriety.
Performance vs. Well-being: Temporary boosts from substances can hinder long-term success and personal health.
Resilience and Growth: Overcoming addiction fosters personal growth and a more authentic connection to one's passion.

Justin’s story serves as an inspiring testament to the human spirit's capacity to overcome and thrive despite formidable challenges.

Notable Quotes:

Justin Hawkins [02:03]:
"There's a morbid voyeurism about people who do what I do... they'd rather watch it unravel."
Justin Hawkins [05:04]:
"I did some EMDR and other types of guidance."
Justin Hawkins [07:47]:
"I kept out of everybody's way... I couldn't do it then, probably wouldn't have survived it."
Justin Hawkins [11:30]:
"It was preposterous. It was a performance-enhancing drug in those first moments of experimentation."

This episode of Kill List offers a profound exploration of coping mechanisms, the cost of fame, and the journey towards self-redemption. Justin Hawkins' heartfelt narrative provides listeners with valuable insights into the complexities of addiction and the unwavering pursuit of personal and artistic integrity.

Transcript

A (0:00)

Hello, I'm John Robbins and I'm dropping into your feed today to tell you about a podcast I think you'll like. It's called how do youo Cope? A podcast where we dig deep in what it means to be human. Each week I sit down with extraordinary guests, people you may know, people you might not, to ask the very simple question, how do you cope? From grief and mental health struggles to moments of self discovery, we explore the journeys that have shaped their lives and helped them grow. But this isn't just about the struggles. It's also about the hope and strength we find when we push through. Whether it's hearing how someone turned a setback into a new opportunity or how they found light in the darkest of times, every episode is a reminder that even in our most difficult moments, we're never truly alone. New episodes are available every Monday. Wherever you listen to podcasts. There'll also be bonus episodes filled with extra good stuff on Thursdays or if. If you're a Wondery subscriber, you can listen to episodes early and ad free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery app. I'm about to play you a clip from my episode with Justin Hawkins where he spoke about leaving the band the Darkness to help him recover from drug and alcohol addiction. If you like what you hear, search and follow how do youo Cope? Wherever you get your podcasts. So welcome, Justin, to How do you cope? We're recording this a little bit later than we usually record these, so we've both got our mugs of sleep tea. So if they take effect throughout the podcast and it becomes too meditative, people listening may. May just fall asleep with how relaxing our chat is.

B (1:36)

I think it's going to affect the.

A (1:37)

Cadence very much, so it's going to be like an ASMR recording.

B (1:40)

Oh, I hope so. Should I lean in? Yeah, you can do it, actually. What?

A (1:44)

Well, I wonder if maybe we could start with what it's like to sort of not quite have control of your own narrative over the years, especially when, you know, the darkness really became massive. Did you notice a sense that there were elements you were no longer in.

B (2:03)

Control of that narrative? The one that is the common perception of the Darkness trajectory is that we came from nowhere and then we were huge and then I took all of the drugs, fucked everything up, and then we stopped for a bit and then we started again. And I think, I don't know, I always think there's this sort of. There's a morbid voyeurism about people who do What I do, because we like to go, oh, look at them, they're fucked up, aren't they? But at no point do they go, let's try and help this person. They'd rather watch it unravel and, you know, observe the chaos and the descent and then just go at the end. Yeah, well, didn't see that one coming. Sarcastically, you know, I did an interview where I'd. I applied some crude mathematics to the amount of money that I'd spent on drugs based on a typical week, and then with some multiplying factors, and I sort of arrived at a figure of about probably 150 grand is what I thought I probably spent on cocaine in three years. And then that's a figure that's just been thrown back at me again and again. But the only reason why that interview happened in the first place was because I was told, we got this story about you, we're going to run it and you have an opportunity to give your side of it, or we'll just run it our way and it won't be nice. So your best option is to take part in this. So I felt obliged to, at least, as you said, to use your expression, try and control the narrative a little bit and actually put a bit of my flavor and my voice into the thing. And then I knew that I'd always have the opportunity to do that joke, you know, like it was a massively inflated number and it couldn't have been more than £149,000 that I spent. You know, I just thought that would keep me going because I knew it was going to haunt me because that's the nature of it. So suddenly I was the poster child for rehabilitation and it was really irritating because I was trying to do music. That's not really what I signed up.