Kill List Podcast: Special Interview with Best-Selling Author James Patterson

Hosted by Carl Miller

Introduction

In a special episode of Kill List, Carl Miller ventures beyond the gripping true crime narratives to engage in an insightful conversation with James Patterson, the best-selling author renowned for his Alex Cross series. Released on November 21, 2024, this episode delves into the intersections between Patterson's fictional detective work and the real-life investigation surrounding the dark web's kill list uncovered by Miller and his team.

Meeting James Patterson

The episode kicks off with Carl introducing James Patterson, highlighting his impressive career:

Carl Miller [00:00]: "It is the one and only James Patterson. His Alex Cross series began in the 1990s with Along Came a Spider and it's now getting its own Amazon Prime series, Cross, which is available to stream."

James Patterson is celebrated for his creation of Alex Cross, a character who embodies both a detective and a forensic psychologist, making him a multifaceted and relatable hero in the crime genre.

Inspiration Behind Alex Cross

James Patterson shares the genesis of Alex Cross, drawing from his personal experiences:

James Patterson [06:14]: "I worked my way through college at one of the best mental hospitals. I was an aide there. This was McLean in Belmont, Massachusetts... I really got interested in that area."

Patterson emphasizes Alex Cross's intellectual prowess and psychological depth, distinguishing him from typical detectives by showcasing his ability to solve cases through intellect rather than mere physical prowess.

Crafting Compelling Villains

A significant portion of their discussion centers on creating formidable antagonists:

James Patterson [08:47]: "The key to the villains... it has to be a worthy villain. So Alex is very smart, but if the villain isn't a worthy villain, it just doesn't work."

Patterson underscores the importance of villains possessing a blend of madness, instability, and intelligence, making them both unpredictable and intellectually challenging for Cross to apprehend.

Parallels Between Alex Cross and Kill List Investigation

Carl draws connections between the investigative challenges faced in Kill List and those navigated by Alex Cross:

Carl Miller [10:12]: "...deciding or judgments, always against the clock, like, always very urgently and at a tempo that was being dictated by the adversary in many ways, not by us."

James Patterson [09:25]: "It's never as simple in terms of what might be motivating the killer."

Both real-life investigators and fiction writers grapple with understanding the multifaceted motivations behind criminal actions, whether driven by money, control, or deeper psychological issues.

Challenges with Law Enforcement

The conversation highlights the obstacles faced when collaborating with police forces:

Carl Miller [15:18]: "We entered this very old fashioned waiting room full of banners with different campaigns against gender violence... They were laughing, laughing."

James Patterson [15:59]: "It's like any other profession. You're going to run into really good ones. You're going to run some that are awful."

Patterson acknowledges the mixed experiences one can have with law enforcement, recognizing both cooperative and obstructive behaviors. This mirrors the Kill List team's struggles when law enforcement doubted the legitimacy of their findings.

Stepping Outside Institutional Boundaries

Both Cross and the Kill List team often find themselves operating beyond traditional channels to achieve their goals:

Carl Miller [21:02]: "Effect on your family, the effect on you, the effect of making a mistake."

James Patterson [21:49]: "One of the reasons that Alex Cross is so successful is his ability to balance work and personal life, especially with his family being threatened."

This dynamic underscores the emotional and ethical complexities faced when pursuing justice, whether in fiction or real investigations.

Character Development and Family Dynamics

Patterson emphasizes the significance of family in Alex Cross's life, adding depth to the character:

James Patterson [26:35]: "People like... Alex's connection to his family, and they identify with it."

The Alex Cross series not only focuses on thrilling investigations but also on personal struggles, making Cross a relatable and enduring character for readers and viewers alike.

Adapting to Modern Realities

The discussion touches on the evolution of storytelling from Patterson's books to the Amazon Prime series:

James Patterson [20:09]: "The series on Amazon is closer to reality in terms of the kinds of things that a cop has to go through in modern day Washington, DC."

The adaptation reflects a shift towards more realistic portrayals of law enforcement challenges, aligning the narrative closer to contemporary societal issues.

Notable Clips and Insights

Throughout the episode, Carl shares clips from both the Kill List investigation and the Alex Cross series to illustrate their points:

1. Elena's Testimony [10:56 - 11:36]:

   • Elena: "...he had rented a room where he had weapons and munitions... He decided not to do it himself."

2. Police Skepticism in Spain [15:18 - 15:54]:

   • Reporter: "The Dark Web hired someone to kill her. What is this? It's a science fiction movie."
   • James Patterson: "Those creeps."

3. Alex Cross Interrogation [24:54 - 25:37]:

   • Alex Cross: "You thought you were special."
   • James Patterson: "It was one of the highest testing series they've ever done, which is cool."

These clips offer a tangible connection between the challenges depicted in the podcast and those in Patterson's literary and televised worlds.

Navigating Ethical Dilemmas

Carl poses a critical question regarding the ethical decisions faced during the Kill List investigation:

Carl Miller [27:15]: "...figuring out what to do with these kill orders... how to tell the targets, how to approach law enforcement."

James Patterson [27:47]: "Life in general... it's just a series of solving problems."

Patterson likens the investigative process to a continuous series of problem-solving, reinforcing the notion that both fiction and reality require adaptability and resilience.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the enduring appeal of the Alex Cross series and the shared experiences between James Patterson's storytelling and the Kill List investigation.

James Patterson [28:04]: "Pretty much every chapter there's a problem to be solved. It's just new problems and opportunities."

Carl and Patterson commend each other's approaches to tackling complex issues, whether in writing or real-life investigations, highlighting the universal challenges of seeking truth and justice.

Final Thoughts

This special interview seamlessly blends the worlds of true crime investigation and crime fiction, offering listeners a profound understanding of both the Kill List operation and the creative processes behind James Patterson's beloved Alex Cross series. Through engaging dialogue and shared experiences, the episode underscores the intricate dance between reality and storytelling in the pursuit of uncovering the truth.

Listen to More:

• Kill List continues to release new episodes weekly on Tuesdays, exploring diverse cases and deepening the investigation into the dark web's kill list.
• Follow Kill List on the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or join Wondery+ for early, ad-free access.

Note: This summary excludes advertisements and non-content sections to focus on the substantive discussions between Carl Miller and James Patterson.