Killer in the Code

Chapter 7: The Round Table (Part 1)

Host: Michael Connelly
Guests: Alex Baber (Cold Case Consultant), Mitzi Roberts (Retired LAPD Homicide), Rick Jackson (Veteran Homicide Detective)

Episode Overview

This episode features a roundtable discussion with key investigators and experts responsible for the central breakthroughs in the Black Dahlia and Zodiac cases. The team tackles questions from listeners, discusses new evidence and investigative techniques, and challenges long-held beliefs about the prime suspects. The discussion centers on Alex Baber’s investigation, including his decryption of the Zodiac’s codes and the identification of Marvin Margolis (aka Marvin Merrill) as a credible suspect in both cases. Participants bring insights from law enforcement, codebreaking, and historical records, debating the strength and implications of the evidence gathered.

Key Discussion Points

1. Law Enforcement's Engagement with the Podcast’s Findings

• [03:23] Rick Jackson: Law enforcement agencies in California have been notified of the group’s findings but control their own investigations with limited feedback to the team. LAPD and SFPD have received evidence and are assessing whether the suspect is viable, but, as Rick emphasizes, "they are not sharing with us what they were doing, which is understandable...we are no longer sworn law enforcement officers" ([03:53]).
• [05:03] Alex Baber: Notes he was the first non-police individual in decades invited to present to multiple agencies involved in the Zodiac investigation, including SFPD, Solano County Sheriff, Napa Sheriff, and the FBI.
• [05:41] Mitzi Roberts: Explains silence from law enforcement doesn't mean inactivity. Cold cases are typically not prioritized unless live suspects are involved.
• [06:34] Michael Connelly: Reminds listeners that their suspect, Marvin Margolis, died in 1993, which impacts prioritization by agencies.

2. Was Marvin Margolis (Merrill) Cleared as a Suspect?

• [08:45] Mitzi Roberts: Strongly disputes that Margolis was cleared by LAPD in 1947. She highlights her access to all case files and notes, "All I can say is I'm not satisfied that he is cleared." Also points out how weak or unverifiable alibis (often from close associates) frequently muddle historic cases.
• [11:13] Rick Jackson: Cites lead investigator Finest Brown’s testimony—stating Margolis was never properly excluded, noting the suspect’s close relationship to the victim was highly relevant.
• [12:35] Mitzi Roberts & Alex Baber: Emphasize that Margolis lied to detectives early on, pointing to a pattern that should cast continued suspicion.
• [14:17] Alex Baber: Details the ongoing manhunt for Margolis, his elusive nature, and the grand jury’s extraordinary secrecy: "if we allow Marvin Margolis to know outside of these four walls that we're attempting to locate him, he may elude justice forever." ([15:11])
• [15:48] Michael Connelly: Refers to William Mann's "Black Dahlia" book, which also singles out Margolis as the prime suspect, noting LAPD never obtained Margolis’s military records—revealing missed crucial information about his psychological fitness and Marine connection.
• [17:10] Alex Baber: Expounds that Margolis misrepresented his military role to police and that only the grand jury pursued his records.
• [18:43] Mitzi Roberts: Argues it's illogical to dismiss new, compelling evidence just because of a possibly faulty clearance eight decades ago.

3. Quality and Shortcomings of the Black Dahlia Investigation

• [20:47] Mitzi Roberts: Praises the dedication of 1940s investigators but acknowledges the case got "away from them" due to media frenzy, volume of leads, and limited resources which would be handled by a vast task force today.
• [23:08] Rick Jackson: Shares that then-police chief William Wharton publicly called the original investigation "bungled" and initiated a grand jury to start fresh.
• [24:27] Alex Baber: Adds that lead DA investigator Frank Jemison, at the end of the grand jury inquiry, advised the next grand jury to continue, believing they were close to identifying Short’s killer.

4. Addressing Arthur Lee Allen as Zodiac Suspect

• [25:32] Alex Baber: Discusses the public fixation on Arthur Lee Allen, largely propelled by media (notably the 2007 "Zodiac" film and Robert Graysmith's book). Baber dismisses Allen, noting he was cleared by handwriting, fingerprints, and DNA: "If I'm going to wager on, I'm not wagering on him as being the Zodiac."
• [26:49] On DNA: The DNA used to clear Allen came from Zodiac letter stamps in 2004. A partial profile sufficed to rule him (and others) out ([27:15]).
• [27:16] Rick Jackson: Confirms from a reliable SFPD source that Allen has been "officially eliminated" as a suspect.

5. Significance of Handwriting Analysis

• [29:13] Alex Baber: Two independent experts assessed handwriting samples from Margolis/Merrill and could not eliminate him as the Zodiac letter author; one provided affirmative evidence supporting authorship.
• [30:06] Rick Jackson: While not an expert, he remarks that unique characteristics in some Zodiac and Black Dahlia-linked samples are unmistakable.
• [31:49] Michael Connelly & Baber: Handwriting comparison requires the highest standards: "If they see one indication or a red flag...they have to state...a probability that he's not the author," but both analyses found no contradictory features.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Law Enforcement’s Role
  • "We have no control over where this goes once we make our notifications and communicate with law enforcement..."
    —Rick Jackson ([03:23])
• On Margolis’s Elusiveness
  • “There’s not enough information...or access to him to make that determination. All I can say is I’m not satisfied that he is cleared.”
    —Mitzi Roberts ([08:45])
  • "Nobody else of the suspects was ever hunted down in that manner, ever."
    —Alex Baber ([14:17])
  • "He lied to the detectives, which they kind of gave him a pass on that."
    —Mitzi Roberts ([12:35])
• On Process and Evidence
  • “If I’m going to wager on [a suspect], I’m not wagering on Arthur Lee Allen as being the Zodiac.”
    —Alex Baber ([25:32])
  • “The fact that you’re not hearing a lot...from law enforcement...is just the nature of this case.”
    —Mitzi Roberts ([05:41])
  • “Not one, but two experts...independently confirming—one beyond a shadow of a doubt, the other saying...most likelihood the author of the Zodiac letters.”
    —Alex Baber ([29:13])

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:23] Will law enforcement act on the findings?
• [05:03] Baber's unique presentation to multiple jurisdictions
• [08:45] Was Margolis really cleared as a suspect? (Mitzi)
• [11:13] Detective perspective on Margolis’s status (Rick)
• [14:17] Grand jury efforts & pursuit of Margolis (Alex)
• [15:48] Recent book supports Baber’s findings (Michael)
• [20:47] Critique of the original Black Dahlia investigation (Mitzi, Rick)
• [25:32] Debunking Arthur Lee Allen as Zodiac (Alex, Rick)
• [29:13] Handwriting analysis and expert conclusions (Alex, Rick)
• [31:49] The standards and process for handwriting exclusion (Michael, Alex)

Tone and Takeaway

The tone is collaborative, investigative, and at times candidly critical—not of individuals, but of systemic investigative limitations. The team challenges myths and internet theories, relying on forensic standards and cold case experience. The recurring theme is a commitment to following evidence to its logical conclusion—not just to satisfy media narratives or historical assumptions.

This episode is essential for listeners wanting substance over speculation in true crime, offering both a deep-dive into the concrete evidence and a pragmatic view of how famous cases sometimes outgrow even the best intentions of investigators. The story continues in Part 2.