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- [00:03]
Vanessa Richardson
Hi there, it's Vanessa. If you're loving Killer Minds, you won't want to miss my new show, a fellow Crime House Original Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes. Every Wednesday, I'll uncover the true stories behind the world's most shocking crimes, deadly ideologies and secret plots. From mass suicides and political assassinations to secret government experiments and UFO cults. Follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you listen. And for ad free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [00:50]
Dr. Tristan Engels
This is Crime House.
- [00:55]
Vanessa Richardson
In the late 1980s, a series of violent bombings tore through the state of Georgia. To the press, authorities and all the panicked citizens who witnessed these crimes, they appeared to be acts of terrorism. And in many ways, they were. But when it came to Roy Moody, things weren't that simple. In the turbulent American south of the 70s and 80s, where the established order clashed with emerging civil rights, Roy felt a deep sense of personal grievance. But in his mind, he wouldn't find justice in court. If Roy was going to get what he wanted, he needed to act without mercy, even if innocent people paid the price. The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
- [02:10]
Dr. Tristan Engels
And I'm Dr. Tristan Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes.
- [02:17]
Vanessa Richardson
A killer Crime House is made possible by you. Please rate, review and follow Killer Minds to enhance your listening experience with ad free early access to each two part series and bonus content. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. A warning. This episode contains accounts of abuse, racism, harassment and acts of domestic terrorism. Listener discretion is advised. Today we begin our deep dive on Roy Moody, a domestic terrorist behind a series of bombings in the 1980s. After being punished for a minor crime, Roy decided to get revenge on the system he believed had wronged him, leading to a campaign of horror throughout the American South.
- [03:04]
Dr. Tristan Engels
As Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like the dangerous effects of childhood abuse and abandonment, the escalation of verbal threats to physical action, and how a sense of self righteousness and delusional thinking can result in violence.
- [03:20]
Vanessa Richardson
And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer? Buying a car in Carvana was so easy, I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, Finance got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options, all within my budget.
- [03:39]
Dr. Tristan Engels
That's cool, but financing through Carvana was so easy.
- [03:42]
Vanessa Richardson
Financed, done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Financed, right? That's what they said.
- [03:48]
Dr. Tristan Engels
You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car today on Carvana financing.
- [03:55]
Vanessa Richardson
Subject to credit approval.
- [03:56]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Additional terms and conditions may apply. Just got a new puppy or kitten.
- [03:59]
Vanessa Richardson
Congrats.
- [04:00]
Dr. Tristan Engels
But also yikes.
- [04:02]
Vanessa Richardson
Between crates, beds, toys, treats and those.
- [04:04]
Dr. Tristan Engels
First few vet visits, you've probably already.
- [04:06]
Vanessa Richardson
Dropped a small fortune.
- [04:08]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Which is where Lemonade Pet insurance comes in.
- [04:10]
Vanessa Richardson
It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet.
- [04:13]
Dr. Tristan Engels
The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are.
- [04:17]
Vanessa Richardson
Handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't.
- [04:29]
Dr. Tristan Engels
They don't know what insurance is.
- [04:33]
Vanessa Richardson
Walter Leroy Moody Jr. Who went by Roy, was born into a society full of division when he came into the world in 1934 or 1935. It was 70 years after the Civil War had ended, but racism and white supremacy remained rampant. His hometown of Fort Valley, Georgia was heavily segregated, and being white, Roy and his siblings were born into a position of privilege within his community. But Roy did not feel privileged growing up. In 1940, when he was 5, he struggled in school. As punishment, his mother, Moselle, regularly beat him and his father, Leroy, refused to step in. In fact, he often yelled at Roy for crying out when his mother hit him. And that wasn't the only trauma his parents inflicted on him. In 1941, when Roy was 6, his parents moved to Ohio without him. His dad was a mechanic, but he'd gotten an opportunity to receive specialized training in military base management. Moselle and Leroy decided that their kids should stay behind in Fort Valley with their grandmother for the program's two year duration. Thankfully, Roy's grandmother was much kinder to him than his parents, but he still felt abandoned. As a result, Roy experienced repeated illness during this time and struggled even more in school.
- [06:00]
Dr. Tristan Engels
There are a few factors here that likely impacted Roy's development. Firstly, his home was physically and emotionally abusive. Like you outlined and based on what you described, his parents were authoritarian, which is a parenting style characterized by high demands, rigid rules, and little to no warmth. This alone can negatively impact a child's self esteem, their emotional well being, social skills Their behavior and confidence. Then there's the element of parental abandonment. Even if his home was loving, even if his parents thought what they were doing was best for Roy, and even if his grandparents provided a safe environment. Roy is still only six years old. He does not have the cognitive ability to fully understand why his parents are leaving him. And he doesn't know how to fully conceptualize how long two years really is. And what he he would likely internalize instead, because of his age and his developmental level, are negative core beliefs about his self worth or value, especially if there was inconsistent contact with them while they were away. And that negative belief can shape a person's future relationships and worldview. Clinically, we might see this manifest as a mistrust of others, a hypersensitivity to rejection, or even emotional detachment. And in some cases, the person might even cling to control and become rigidly self sufficient to avoid feeling any kind of rejection or abandonment in their life. It can really impact attachment style and interpersonal connections. In children that young high levels of anxiety are expressed somatically. They often complain of stomach aches, headaches, nausea, or making vague statements that they don't feel well because they're too young to understand or articulate what's happening psychologically. So these repeated illnesses that you mentioned, that could actually just be a result of separation anxiety or stress rather than being medical in origin.
- [07:56]
Vanessa Richardson
Even though his parents eventually do come back, does this kind of devastation in a child do irreparable damage to the relationship he has with them?
- [08:04]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Unfortunately, if Roy did internalize this as abandonment or rejection, that kind of wound doesn't just automatically heal the moment they return. In fact, it's even possible that their return would trigger more complicated emotions. Emotions that Roy is too young to understand or even articulate, let alone cope with. It might even be another trauma and an of itself. For instance, if his grandparents offered a stable, loving environment that was free from abuse, then being sent back into a home with his parents where abuse was present would be so destabilizing for him and emotionally damaging, very confusing. It's not just a change in caregivers. It's a loss of safety and another perceived abandonment. So in order to repair any damage that was done from this kind of separation, parents would need to have insight, show significant effort, and take emotional accountability. But Roy's parents already lacked emotional warmth toward him, and it's unlikely that they would suddenly be willing to do the emotional work needed to reconnect with Roy effectively. Given his unfortunate circumstances, it's unlikely this will repair Any damage and these compounding traumas will likely result in attachment deficits, personal rigidity, intimacy deficits, hostility toward authority, and controlling behavior.
- [09:25]
Vanessa Richardson
Well, Roy's parents returned to Georgia in 1943, and it's not clear what their family dynamics were like in the immediate years that followed. But when Roy reached high school, his father became more active in his son's life. It turned out Roy was good at mechanics. Leroy, who had his own garage at this point, was eager for his son to follow in the family trade. So every day after school, Roy headed to the garage and left. Leroy showed him the ropes.
- [09:51]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Leroy's interest in Roy at this point seems conditional. He's engaging with him when it serves his own interests. Like pushing Roy toward the family trade.
- [10:01]
Vanessa Richardson
Definitely. And going from essentially being ignored to becoming his dad's complete focus was overwhelming for Roy. He was afraid of disappointing Leroy and felt enormous pressure to perform. He couldn't handle the pressure and eventually stopped going to the garage altogether. Instead, Roy took up a new hobby, building model airplanes. This became his new passion. But Roy didn't have any money of his own, so he realized he couldn't actually buy any of the supplies he needed. That's when he decided to just steal them. No one ever caught Roy for his theft, and it doesn't seem like he did it again for a while, possibly because he was focused on other things over the next few years, like his growing resentment of his parents. Whereas early in his life he felt abandoned by them, now he hated being around them. If he didn't do his chores up to Leroy's standards, he would get an earful. And Moselle was still physically abusive, including with Roy's sister. But Roy couldn't bring himself to stand up to his parents. Instead, he took his frustrations out on an easier target. One day, his little brother Bobby, only a toddler at the time, accidentally knocked over one of Roy's model airplanes. Roy absolutely lost it and beat Bobby so severely that Leroy had to physically separate them.
- [11:27]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Roy's reaction to his little brother is an example of how abuse is a learned behavior. Children observe, model, and imitate behaviors in their immediate environments. Roy learned early on that both emotional expression, like crying and behavioral shortcomings, like struggling in school, were met with physical punishment. His parents modeled a pattern where anything deemed undesirable or imperfect was treated as a punishable offense, regardless of intent. And Roy is emulating that. That being said, you've probably heard the phrase abused people abused people. It gets tossed around a lot. But here's the problem. It's overly simplistic, it's misleading, and in many cases, just wrong. While it's true that a history of abuse is common among people who go on to harm others, the vast majority of people who experience abuse do not go on to abuse anyone. In fact, many survivors become fiercely protective, deeply empathetic, and even hypervigilant about never causing harm. Trauma doesn't turn people into abusers. It turns them into survivors. What they do with that trauma depends on dozens of other variables, like the presence of a support system, a person's temperament, their neurobiology, resilience, attachment, history, and whether or not they have access to intervention or support.
- [12:48]
Vanessa Richardson
The model airplane incident was the first time Roy showed violence toward Bobby, but it wouldn't be the last. Two years later, when Bobby was still quite young and Roy was old enough to have his driver's license, he offered to take Bobby to see some airplanes. At some point during the drive, Roy stopped abruptly and beat his little brother again. Bobby was understandably shocked and terrified. The beating had seemingly come out of nowhere. But incredibly, Roy did have a reason for the violence. He was still carrying around a grudge for what Bobby had done to his model airplane. Roy was clearly capable of holding on to grievances, and he also had a tendency to find the negative in every moment. For example, in March 1950, when Roy turned 50, Leroy bought him his own car. This was a generous gift, but Roy interpreted the gesture very differently. He saw Leroy's present as a control tactic that prevented him from having access to the family car. By this point, Roy and Leroy were constantly at each other's throats. And the more Roy acted out, the worse this feud became. Towards the end of high school, he wrote checks from the family account, stole gas from the pumps at his father's garage, and by the end of it, he refused to go into the family mechanic business.
- [14:10]
Dr. Tristan Engels
So his pattern of behavior so far could indicate the presence of conduct disorder, which is a precursor to antisocial personality disorder.
- [14:19]
Vanessa Richardson
And even though his home life was turbulent, to others outside his home in the community, Roy seemed like a bit of a hotshot. He was handsome and had a nice car when most boys his age couldn't afford that kind of luxury. It was during this time that he started dating his 14 year old neighbor, Joyce. Roy proved to be a terrible partner. He continued his pattern of abuse, subjecting Joyce to frequent mood swings that sometimes turned violent. The relationship reached its pinnacle of dysfunction when Joyce got pregnant. Abortion was illegal in Georgia, so she had to do a secret procedure that nearly Killed her. After the ordeal, 18 year old Roy left her and got as far away from the situation as he could. He joined the Army. It was 1953 and the Korean War had been going on for just over three years. But by the time Roy joined up in September, a ceasefire had been in effect for the last six weeks. As a result, his time in the army saw little action and was relatively short. The he was stationed in Boston for about three years and was then discharged in 1956. After that, Roy moved back in with his parents so he could go to Mercer College in Georgia and study medicine. Roy planned to work full time and finish school in three years. But that idea backfired. The pace was unsustainable and Roy's academic performance was bad from the start. He was put on immediate probation and wasn't even allowed to take his final exams because he didn't pay his full tuition. Over the next five years, Roy floated from job to job and woman to woman, never really finding anything that stuck. Eventually, the aimless young man gravitated towards a community of people called the John Birch Society. They were an extremist, anti communist organization that believed the government was against the people. When Roy joined up, he liked the way they preached about government conspiracies and retaliation.
- [16:26]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Roy's attraction to this group is very telling. It highlights his deep psychological alignment with the idea of retaliation. Given his history, particularly the unresolved anger and powerlessness he likely felt toward his father, as well as his own retaliatory behavior toward his brother, it's no coincidence that he gravitated toward a movement that frames retaliation as justified or righteous. In fact, I outlined how this mistrust and authority can root itself in his childhood from his abusive and authoritarian parents. So for someone like Roy, who had felt voiceless and controlled, joining a group that legitimized defiance against authority was validating. There's so much psychological power that comes with being surrounded by people who think like you. And in group settings we often see something called group polarization, which is when people's attitudes become more extreme due to the repeated validation of a group of like minded people. Alongside that is the phenomenon of groupthink, which is a dynamic that pressures members to conform, avoid nuance, or ignore inconvenient truths. Together, these processes don't just support someone's existing beliefs, they exacerbate them. And in extremist groups, that's the whole point. To replace someone's uncertainty with certainty and to transform personal grievances into a collective ideology. And that's A setting in which indoctrination thrives. And Roy's personal grievances are what drew him to this in the first place. People don't just get pulled randomly into extreme is thinking. Typically, they're often searching for something like control, clarity, identity, or belonging. Especially when those things were missing in their own childhood.
- [18:12]
Vanessa Richardson
Roy's new involvement in the society wasn't the only big life event to happen around this time. In 1962, when Roy was 27, he met a woman named Melba Price. This time he was ready to start a family, and the two welcomed a child together. The following year, they but that didn't mean Roy was ready for actual responsibilities. During the next two years, he was perpetually short on cash because he still couldn't hold down a job. To cover his expenses, Roy began writing bad checks, which eventually landed him in jail for fraud in 1965. The sentence was only about 30 days, but the experience had a significant impact on Roy. Between 1966 and 1967, he became quite depressed and started seeing a series of psychiatrists. Psychiatrists. One of whom eventually diagnosed him with a character disorder.
- [19:07]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Let's talk about this diagnosis. Character disorder was previously used in earlier versions of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or what we call the dsm. And it was used to describe enduring patterns of behavior that were inflexible, maladaptive, and resistant to change. And it behavior that caused interpersonal conflict, trouble with authority, or emotional detachment. It wasn't a precise diagnosis, but rather a broad term. And it was used for individuals who did not fit criteria for clinical conditions such as a mood disorder or a psychotic disorder. But they still had the traits that I just outlined. Now, character disorder has since been replaced with personality disorder, which I think everyone's familiar with. Now, given what we know about Roy, this does seem appropriate. If I were assessing Roy today, I would rule out antisocial personality disorder. Though we don't have the exact age. He began stealing or showing violence toward his brother. If it was before age 15 or even after, it could indicate conduct disorder. He also had inappropriate relationships with minors, risky behavior, fraud, and unstable interpersonal relationships. I would also assess for paranoid personality disorder since he exhibits persecutory beliefs, a victim mentality, rigid thinking and distrust, and authority, especially with his father. What first made me flag this as a possibility was when he was given his own car. Instead of being thrilled by that, like most people his age would, he assumed it meant his parents were trying to control him from using the family car. That was such an irrational belief There was no evidence for it, and within the context of the information we had, it was noteworthy to me. But overall, I think that the determination he had at character disorder was accurate for that time.
- [21:03]
Vanessa Richardson
Well, seeking help didn't seem to actually help Roy. After his diagnosis, he decided to start a new scam with a business he called the Associated Writers Guild of America. Here's how it worked. Roy would place an ad for proofreaders in out of state newspapers. Then he would charge a fee to anyone who answered the ad and asked to be put up for the job. But that job didn't exist, so Roy would just pocket their cash. It wasn't a lucrative scheme, though, and soon Roy tried to find another line of work. He enrolled at the John Marshall Law School briefly, but couldn't stay focused and never graduated. By early 1969, he was 34 years old, with no job prospects and a child to look after. His shame grew, and throughout that year, he frequently cheated on Melbourne. One of these infidelities was with a woman named Hazel, and Roy got her pregnant. When Melba heard about the affair, she finally kicked Roy out. Over the next three years, Roy lived with Hazel and the two had a son. But Roy hadn't changed his financial situation. He just never seemed to be able to hold on to a job. In 1972, when Roy was 37, he decided that getting a car would broaden broaden his career prospects. His old one was long gone, but he didn't have the money to buy one. Instead of waiting until he could actually afford a vehicle, Roy wrote a bad check to a man named Tom Downing. When Tom attempted to cash the check and wasn't able to, he repossessed the vehicle. This made Roy furious at Tom, and for the first time in a while, this furious gave him a sense of motivation. He realized that he hadn't been utilizing two major skills. He'd acquired his knowledge as a mechanic and his understanding of weaponry from the army. It occurred to Roy that he knew how to build weapons. And he knew exactly what he was going to use this skill set for revenge.
- [23:14]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Mom and dad, I'm growing at an alarming rate. And clothes you buy me this year will be very small very soon. But at least your wallet doesn't have to be my fashion victim. With low prices for school at Amazon, hope that helps Amazon spend less, smile more.
- [23:30]
Vanessa Richardson
Sixteen years from today, Greg Gerstner will finally land the perfect cannonball. Epic splash, unsuspecting friends. A work of art only possible because Greg is already meeting all these same people at AARP volunteer and community events that keep him active and involved and help make sure his happiness lives as long as he does. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at aarp.org local in early 1972, 37 year old Roy Moody was out for blood. He had written a bad check to buy a car from a man named Tom Downing. And when Tom repossessed the vehicle, Roy became furious. After that, he began to disappear into his workshop for hours on end and refused to let his girlfriend Hazel or their son enter. No one knew what he was doing in there until that May. On the 7th of that month, Roy took his son to visit his mom. While they were there, he received a frantic call from a neighbor. There had been an explosion at his house. Hazel was seriously injured. Apparently she'd gone into Roy's workshop and opened a package that she found there. But that package exploded because the thing Roy had been working on was a pipe bomb. It didn't take long for the police to find that out. When they looked at the scene, they found remnants of Roy's bomb along with a threatening note addressed to Tom Downing. They arrested Roy later that month and charged him with the manufacture and possession of an unregistered explosive. In the lead up to the trial, Roy's attorney wanted him to enter an insanity plea. He was tested by three different psychologists who all concluded there was nothing clinically wrong with him.
- [25:25]
Dr. Tristan Engels
People often assume that if someone has a serious mental health diagnosis and they engage in egregious behavior like this, that it must mean they're legally insane. But the reality is, the legal standard for insanity is much narrower than most people realize. Generally, most states require that an individual have a mental disease or defect, which is a legal term, and that disease or defect impaired their ability to understand what they were doing during the commission of a crime and impaired their ability to distinguish right from wrong. A personality disorder alone or a character disorder in those days is not a condition that impairs an individual's ability to understand right from wrong. Or Roy was trying to hide what he was doing from his family and it wasn't because he was worried about their safety. If safety was the reason, he wouldn't be building a pipe bomb near them to begin with. So more likely hiding it was about fear of being discovered. And that suggests rational thought when it comes to right or wrong. Now, it is true that people with personality disorders can be emotionally volatile, hostile, rigid, impulsive, or controlling, but they still know what they're doing rationally. They just tend to lack empathy, Justify their actions, or feel entitled to the behavior. Let's explain what I believe they meant. When they said there was nothing clinically wrong with Roy. Because I can see how that would be confusing to many. When he was diagnosed with a character disorder. We distinguished personality disorders or character disorders in those days. As distinctly different from clinical disorders like anxiety disorders, mood disorders, or psychotic disorders. And here's why. Clinical disorders are typically episodic, Meaning they come in episodes. Personality disorders are pervasive patterns of behavior. That shape how a person. Sees the world, Relates to others, and manages stress. Clinical disorders have a clear onset. And they can worsen or improve. And are more responsive to pharmacological treatment and therapy. Whereas personality disorders are gradual. And they begin in the in youth. But cannot be diagnosed until age 18. When their personality structure is more stable and developed. Individuals with personality disorders are less responsive to pharmacological treatment. Though it does certainly help manage emotional reactivity. But medication doesn't change someone's worldview or perceptions. Medication is intended to make clinical symptoms like sadness, anxiety, psychosis, or impaired sleep, for example, Be less frequent and intense. Clinical disorders disrupt functioning. Whereas personality disorders distort it. So when they say Roy didn't have anything clinically wrong with him. What they're saying is that his behavior is his thought content. Were attributed more to his enduring personality structure. Than to a clinical mental illness like a mood or psychotic disorder. And in legal terms, his functioning may have been maladaptive, even extreme. But it didn't stem from a disorder that would impair his ability. To understand reality. Or distinguish right from wrong. And because of that, he didn't meet the legal threshold for insanity. And three psychologists agreed.
- [28:34]
Vanessa Richardson
Was the earlier psychiatrist wrong?
- [28:36]
Dr. Tristan Engels
No. If anything, this confirms the previous diagnosis. And what the earlier psychiatrist concluded. This implies to me that a personality disorder is what Roy is likely suffering from. And given that we know about Roy's childhood, His attachment deficits, and his pervasive patterns of behavior. It truly just strengthens these findings.
- [28:57]
Vanessa Richardson
Well, without an insanity plea, Roy didn't have a lot he could say to defend himself. But he tried anyway. At the trial, he insisted on testifying. And had an excuse for the whole incident ready to go. He claimed that he had confided in a law school classmate named Gene Wallace. About his troubles. And it was Gene who dropped the bomb off at his house. There was just one problem with that story. There was no record of a Gene Wallace at the John Marshall Law School. But Roy somehow managed to introduce enough doubt in the case. And the jury ended up acquitting him on the larger charge of man manufacturing the bomb. Instead, he was only convicted of possession and sentenced to five years in prison. Roy began his sentence in the fall of 1972 without much else to do. Roy finally devoted himself to his legal studies and worked hard to overturn his conviction. In the process, he became good friends with his cellmate, Ted Banks, who was about 45 years old. Ted was a criminal from rural Kentucky, and he happened to know know how to make bombs. The two developed a barter system where Roy would give Ted legal help on his case in exchange for Ted's know how on bomb making. By the time Roy was paroled in August 1975, he was 40 years old. He wasn't able to overturn his conviction, but he left prison with something he wanted even more. A deep knowledge of explosives.
- [30:30]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Rory was someone with a strong need for control and a deep distrust of authority, which makes incarceration especially intolerable for someone like him. Prison doesn't just confine him physically. It's removing his autonomy, reinforces his persecutory beliefs and places him under the authority of a system he already believed was out to get him. That kind of environment is provocative to someone like Roy. And in response, we see signs of overcompensation. Attempts to reclaim control and reassert dominance, which is evident in his relationship with Ted and in how he spent his time while incarcerated. He wasn't just learning about explosives out of boredom or curiosity. He's incarcerated for possessing an explosive. So this interest in explosives isn't a new behavior. It's his attempt to refine an existing one. So his time in prison didn't extinguish that impulse. It reinforced and validated it. Much like his involvement in the Birch Society reinforced and validated his beliefs. Roy's need to feel powerful, vindicated, and in control only grew while incarcerated. And with it, so did his need for revenge, his technical knowledge, and his capacity for more harm.
- [31:44]
Vanessa Richardson
If Roy assumed he'd be able to step back into his old life again, he was sorely mistaken. When he returned home from prison, Hazel left him and got full custody of their son. After that, Roy seemed to go back to his same rocky, rookie existence. He was unable to find work and actually ended up getting charged with child abandonment for missed child support payments. This earned him 25 more days in jail. After his release, Roy spent the next few years trying to stay afloat, usually by testing out new scams. Without a reliable source of income, he typically relied on the women he Dated for a place to stay. He went to through a cycle of girlfriends like this for a while until 1981, when one of these relationships stuck. 18 year old Susan Kelly McBride was working as a waitress in an Atlanta suburb when she met 46 year old Roy. Something about him drew her in and the two started dating. With such a large age gap, Roy was almost a parental figure for Susan. He did things like teach her how to shoot so she could protect herself. But he also also saw Susan as a partner. He brought her in to help with his newly revived Writers Guild scam, along with another new business he'd started. Incredibly, these businesses actually started doing well enough that he and Susan moved into a nice house together. But this didn't seem like a good thing for anyone. Now that they lived together, Roy exerted a lot of control over Susan. He purposely isolated her from friends and family family and insisted she never leave his side. And it wasn't just Susan that Roy tried to dominate. During this period. He was increasingly antagonistic with his new neighbors. And anytime there was a small conflict, Roy would weaponize the justice system in his favor and slap them with lawsuits.
- [33:39]
Dr. Tristan Engels
When we look at Roy's behavior over time, there's a consistent psychological pattern of rigidity and control seeking behavior. Obviously there's mistrust or paranoia. He's got a lot of grievances and is retaliatory and he externalizes blame. He had a long history of feeling persecuted by people, even the courts themselves. In his mind, he was mistreated, misunderstood, or unfairly punished. So rather than avoid that system, he turned around and used it against others. And I believe this is because if he had felt punished by it, then it stood to reason that others would feel the same if he turned the system against them. This is projection and displacement. He couldn't undo the wrongs he believed he had experienced, but to him, he felt he could recreate it for others. And this fits with his pattern of retaliation. And it's also noteworthy that he's engaging in intimate partner violence as well.
- [34:37]
Vanessa Richardson
What does this say about his mindset in general? Do you think it indicates some kind of victim complex?
- [34:43]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Oh, yes, but not in like a sense of overall helplessness. It's not passive, it's active, it's retaliatory and morally distorted. It also feels feels deeper than victimhood, almost like it's at an identity level now. So recapping, he felt betrayed by his parents and likely his grandparents too, when they returned him back to his abusive parents. He thought Tom Downing repossessing his car was some kind of personal betrayal that he had to build a pipe bomb. And now he's exhibiting the same with his neighbors. He's a grievance collector, someone who ruminates on past lights, reframes consequences as injustices, externalized blame, and believes vengeance is justified. He's not the victim and the problems that he's creating, but Roy certainly believes he is. And he's incapable of seeing it differently.
- [35:35]
Vanessa Richardson
Amidst all this turbulence, Roy's professional life was actually looking good. He and Susan's two scam businesses were thriving, and in the winter of 1982, Roy started a third. But none of that made him any happier. He continued to exert control over Susan, physically and verbally, abusing her. And in 1983, Susan found something that made a lot of things about Roy click into place. It was an old newspaper clipping about Roy's prison sentence and the construction of the bomb that had hurt his then girlfriend, Hazel. When Susan confronted Roy about it, he didn't try to hide anything. In a lot of ways, this was an uneventful discovery. Susan didn't leave Roy, and he didn't seem to care that she'd found out about about it. But shortly after this, he also tried to go back to law school. For them, the conviction was a problem, and they denied Roy's application.
- [36:31]
Dr. Tristan Engels
This is a significant turning point. His denial from law school likely reinforced his grievances against the legal system even more. Also, his interest in law school, I think, was so he could continue to feel in control, powerful, and weaponize the legal system against anyone one that he perceives slighted him in any way.
- [36:52]
Vanessa Richardson
After that, Roy renewed his efforts to clear his name. He spent the next six years trying to appeal his conviction to no avail. Due to a statute of limitations and a rejection from Georgia's 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, Roy's attempts were thwarted multiple times around the summer of 1989. The constant rejection had thrown fear 54 year old Roy into a deep depression. But soon he found something else to focus on. One day he read a newspaper article about a type of nuclear reaction called cold fusion. In plain terms, the article stated that it would be possible to create an extremely effective explosion at room temperature. For months, Roy once again locked himself away in a work workshop, poring over books and articles about explosives. He told Susan he was obsessed with replicating cold fusion, but he didn't say why. After eight years of their volatile, abusive relationship, Susan knew better than to ask too many questions. And it seemed like Roy was aware of this because he started getting Susan to run some errands for him. He sent her to shop at all sorts of stores far away from their home to buy odd things like wire brushes, paper towels, brake fluid, scissors, faucet, tubing, and used typewriters. After each purchase, Roy demanded that Susan give him the receipts so he could destroy them. Finally, on August 20, 1989, Roy asked her to pick up some stamps. She did as she was asked, just like with all the other errands. And this was the last piece of the puzzle. With those stamps, Roy would mail out packages he thought would change his life and end someone else's.
- [38:51]
Dr. Tristan Engels
It's Wednesday. Adams. I see you're trying to distract yourself from your own banal thoughts.
- [38:57]
Vanessa Richardson
Let me help you.
- [38:59]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Here's a recording thing made of my latest root Canal. Wednesday. Season 2 is now playing only on Netflix.
- [39:24]
Vanessa Richardson
Introducing Invisible Choir, a true crime podcast that explores the most heinous murder murders.
- [39:29]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Through investigative storytelling, primary source audio, and exclusive interviews.
- [39:34]
Vanessa Richardson
She had turned to like, get away from him. He walked to his car, he pulled out the sword, and then he followed her. They found chunks of her hair in the grass. We'll take you on an unforgettable emotional journey to the crime scenes themselves as we explore the individual and community impact behind some truly horrendous, tremendous, and often preventable crimes. And I went into trying to convince myself that she stayed with a girlfriend.
- [40:02]
Dr. Tristan Engels
And maybe her phone was dead, she.
- [40:03]
Vanessa Richardson
Couldn'T charge it, or she didn't have service, I don't know. Just trying to convince myself that she would be okay. Subscribe, listen and review Invisible Choir on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. New episodes air every other Sunday. On August 21, 1989, a package was delivered to the Atlanta headquarters of the national association for the Advancement of Colored People, better known as the naacp. A secretary received the package on her desk and assumed it was a legal brief. Seconds later, she opened it, and chaos broke loose. The package instantly exploded, loaded, filling the office with tear gas and burning a handful of people. While this was happening, letters arrived at 14 different television stations in Atlanta, as well as the 11th Circuit, the court that had repeatedly rejected Roy's appeals. The letters were titled A Declaration of War. They said that widespread acts of terror would continue until the court learned how to do what it was supposed to do. Delivery equitable justice.
- [41:16]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Roy's escalating from verbal aggression to physical violence. And that's rarely impulsive or random. More often, it reflects an underlying need for control. And for individuals with certain personality traits, confrontation can feel particularly threatening. Not just emotionally, but existentially. They can interpret rejection, perceived humiliation, or loss of status as a threat to their sense of control or self worth. And that's a threat that's intolerable to some. Initially, they may attempt to regain control through verbal aggression, Dominating conversation, making threats, Assigning blame, or trying to shame the person who challenged them. But when this fails to restore their position, Physical violence may follow as a means of reasserting dominance or retaliating against the source of the perceived threat. This pattern is especially common among individuals with rigid thinking, Emotional dysregulation, and a strong sense of entitlement. For them, violence is not a loss of control. It is a strategy used to regain it. The underlying motivation is not impulsivity, but a need to punish and re establish power.
- [42:25]
Vanessa Richardson
Do you think this could just be a case of someone refusing to accept no as an answer?
- [42:30]
Dr. Tristan Engels
In a sense, I think this goes well beyond the refusal to accept no. It's an inability to. What we see in Roy is a clear and consistent pattern of interpreting rejection as persecution, which allows him to externalize blame Rather than engage in self reflection or accountability. He feel feels entitled not just to being heard, but to correcting what he perceives as systemic wrongs. But that correction is on his own terms. He frames his actions as justified responses to perceived oppression, Positioning himself as the one exception to the rules. And at this point, his world view reflects a rigid, almost delusional belief in his own moral authority. One that allows him to rationalize and escalate his behavior without any remorse. Yours.
- [43:19]
Vanessa Richardson
If roy thought his threats would work, he was soon disappointed. Shortly after mailing out his bomb and the letters, he filed yet another appeal with the 11th Circuit to overturn his previous conviction. Once again, he was rejected. Roy refused to give up, though. But before sending out more bombs, he tried to appeal to the u. S. Supreme court. While he awaited their decision, he read up on other cases that the 11th Circuit had processed, Most notably back when a judge had determined that all public schools in the surrounding county needed to eliminate racial segregation in all forms. And then that same judge rejected a plea from white teachers in another county who wanted to avoid being reassigned to predominantly black schools. There were two significant names associated with these cases. The judge, robert vance, and the attorney who argued in support of desegregation, Robert e. Robinson. Their decisions made roy's blood boil. To him, these cases were an example of how black citizens were finding justice in the courts, While white men like him were not as ill conceived as this line of thinking was. It gave Roy the excuse he needed to make good on the threat of violence he had promised in his letters. In Late November of 1989, 54 year old Roy called his former cellmate Ted Banks, looking for some gunpow powder. Ted said no, since he was trying to keep himself out of trouble. So Roy had to get the materials for himself. To do this, he poorly disguised himself with a pair of pink glasses and an orange wig that didn't even cover his dark hair, then drove to a spot about 15 miles away to buy what he needed. Now he just had to figure out who to go after next. That December, Roy got his hands on a zip code directory. He would leave the house at night, staying out for hours while he selected his targets.
- [45:20]
Dr. Tristan Engels
People often lump violent offenders together, but clinically and behaviorally, there are important differences between types of killers, especially when it comes to motive, emotional state planning, and target selection. For example, serial killers are typically motivated by psychological or emotional gratification, which may be sexual arousal, a need for control, sadistic pleasure, a sense of power. While some target victims opportunistically, many choose victims who reflect a specific demographic or are a symbolic representation tied to their internal fantasies, resentments, or fixations. Unlike serial killers, Roy reflects a type of offender who is calm, methodical and vengeful. He's driven by the belief that the world owes him and that violence is a legitimate response to that. He's not someone that's impulsive or opportunistic. His target selection's deliberate, it's grievance related, and it's tied to symbolic meaning. He targets people and institutions that he believes have wronged him, rejected him, or represent systems that have humiliated him in some way.
- [46:27]
Vanessa Richardson
Do you think Roy already knew who he wanted to hurt and was just making sure it was feasible during these stakeouts?
- [46:33]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Yeah, definitely. I mean, the fact that he got a zip code directory and started staking at the homes, that tells me he definitely had a list of specific targets and was trying to determine how and when he could attack or who he should attack first. This is a very clear sign of targeted violence.
- [46:51]
Vanessa Richardson
About a week after Roy's nighttime drives began, 55 year old Robert Vance returned home from running errands. The 11th Circuit judge was about to celebrate 12 years in his position and lived in an exclusive residential community in Alabama. When Robert got home, his wife Helen was waiting for him. She handed Robert a package that had just arrived. As he turned the parcel over in his hands, he noticed the return address belonged to a colleague who was fond of horses. Robert started opening the package, assuming it contained some equestrian related magazines, but before he could even look inside, it exploded in his hands. Robert died instantly and Helen was seriously injured. Just two days later, on December 18, 1989, a package arrived at the 11th Street Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta addressed to the Clerk's office. On its way into the building, technicians ran the package through a routine X ray screening and what they saw stopped them in their tracks. Through the scan, they could clearly see that the box contained what looked like a pipe bomb. The technicians immediately sounded an emergency alarm and evacuated the building. Moments later, the bomb squad arrived and dismantled the explosion explosive. The court had narrowly avoided catastrophe, but Roy's next intended victim wouldn't be so lucky. That same evening, 42 year old Robert Robinson arrived at his home in Savannah, Georgia. Robert was the first black student to ever graduate from the University of Georgia Law School and had become a formidable attorney who was a fierce advocate for desegregation. That night, Robert was supposed to be on his way to a Christmas party, but he decided to go home and open his mail first. When he got there, he found a small package no bigger than a shoebox. Robert tore it open and the bomb inside detonated. The explosion ripped into Robert and his injuries were so severe that he died later that night. When Roy heard about the attacks, he may have considered it a success. He'd wanted to cause an uproar in the court system and carry out an act of retribution for the way he had been treated. But Roy had no idea the bombs he built and took two lives with would soon become a roadmap for the authorities and it would lead straight to him. Foreign thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for the conclusion of our deep dive on Roy Moody.
- [49:48]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Killer Minds is a Crime House original Powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on instagram instagram@killerminds and don't forget to rate, review and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference and.
- [50:09]
Vanessa Richardson
To enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad free along with early access to each thrilling two part series and exciting Crime House bonus content. Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson and Dr. Tristan Engels and is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertzofsky Sarah Camp, Kate Murdoch, Meredith Allen, Hania Saeed and and Keri Murphy. Thank you for listening. It's Labor Day weekend and you deserve a treat like 25% off all of your Liquid IV favorites and exclusive gifts with purchase during Liquid IV's Labor Day sale. Happening now. Stock up on all your favorite hydration from the hydration multiplier to sugar free flavors and more. This is a limited time offer so stock up before it ends. Go to Liquid Item IV.com and use code LIV PODS at checkout to get 25% off site wide plus exclusive gifts with purchase at LiquidIV.com code LIVPODS.