Serial Killers & Murderous Minds

Episode: SERIAL KILLER: Sante Kimes Pt. 2

Release Date: January 22, 2026

Hosts: Vanessa Richardson and Dr. Tristin Engels, Clinical and Forensic Psychologist

Episode Overview

In this gripping conclusion to the two-part series on mother-son con artists and killers Sante (also spelled Shantae) and Kenny Kimes, "Serial Killers & Murderous Minds" dives deep into their later criminal spree. The hosts unravel the psychology of Sante's manipulations, her toxic enmeshment with Kenny, and the chilling lengths they went to in pursuit of wealth and control—including the infamous murder of Manhattan socialite Irene Silverman. Dr. Engels provides expert forensic insight into their pathological bond and the psychological mechanisms at play.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Sante and Kenny’s Criminal Escalation (00:55–06:15)

• After years of fraud, Sante and Kenny reportedly murdered a banker, Syed Bilal Ahmed, in the Bahamas in 1996, later fleeing to Miami.
• Despite having wealth, Sante continued shoplifting for the thrill and sense of power.
  • Dr. Engels: “People with her personality structure often steal not because they need the item, but because the act itself gives them a sense of power, excitement or relief.” (05:44)
• Kenny started getting caught up alongside his mother in these crimes, cementing their co-dependence.

The “Team” and Enmeshed Relationship (06:15–10:10)

• After another shoplifting bust, Sante and Kenny relocate to LA, living lavishly under aliases and recruiting a team of transient workers for errands and to buy firearms.
• Observers noted Sante and Kenny’s relationship was “too close”—even being mistaken for a couple.
  • Dr. Engels: The relationship is “a breakdown of boundaries, but not necessarily a sexual relationship... It's emotional regulation, validation, and control... All of those were her strategies. They were ways to maintain her grip on him and reinforce the dependency that she’d been engineering since he was a child. This is about possession and psychological fusion.” (08:07)
• Vanessa probes whether Sante’s history of abuse might have perpetuated unhealthy dynamics with Kenny.

Fraud, Theft, and First Murder—David Kasdan (11:22–13:08)

• Sante forged property documents in a friend’s name and set fire to the Las Vegas property — when David Kasdan, the victim, pushed back, Kenny murdered him at Sante’s behest.
• Dr. Engels: “Years of dependency, isolation, and emotional control likely impaired Kenny’s ability to see himself as separate from his mother. Her needs became his obligations. Her enemies became his problems to solve. And the more he conformed to her expectations, the more his moral boundaries weakened.” (13:08)
• Both hosts explore the “why” behind their lack of self-awareness and destructive pattern: Sante’s narcissism and Kenny’s conditioning (14:18).

The Silverman Plot: From Targeting to Killing (15:07–29:11)

• The pair, now on the run, eyed Irene Silverman’s $7 million Manhattan townhouse as their last, ultimate score.
• They executed a meticulous con: Kenny moved in under a false identity, spying on Irene and collecting paperwork for forgeries.
  • Sante’s need for control manifested in obsessive planning and even donning a wig for a failed notary impersonation.
    • Dr. Engels: “What is shocking … is how much she’s willing to risk just for those thrills and for that end goal. … If she was worried that that specific notary would report what she was doing… she clearly didn’t show it. … For her, getting caught isn’t a deterrent, it’s an inconvenience.” (24:11)
• Eventually, after exhausting more elaborate (and bungled) attempts at fraud, Sante and Kenny murdered Irene—her body was never recovered.
  • Dr. Engels: “Instrumental violence is … harm committed out of calculated intention. … The more extreme the shared act, the stronger the psychological hold.” (27:52)
• The mother-son relationship had become entirely fused—Kenny now followed Sante’s orders with little hesitation.

The Arrest and Interrogation (31:08–37:12)

• Police, with help from a coerced former accomplice, orchestrated a sting that ended in Sante and Kenny’s arrest.
• In custody, Kenny “couldn’t function” without his mother—repeatedly calling out for her in desperation.
  • Dr. Engels: “This is a classic sign of extreme dependency... He’d spent his whole life responding to her cues and relying on her to define what’s right, what’s wrong... he’s too psychologically dependent to the point that his entire world falls apart the moment she isn’t there to hold it together.” (35:00)
• Their car and collected belongings provided key evidence (forged IDs, credit cards, a bag at the Plaza hotel containing the murder weapon and forgeries).

Conviction Without a Body: Courtroom Theater (39:35–46:17)

• The prosecution, despite having no body, built a damning circumstantial case using Sante’s own obsessively detailed notebooks and witness testimony.
  • Irene Silverman’s taped phone call—where Sante tried to scam her Social Security number—was matched verbatim to notebook script.
• The jury found them both guilty on all counts; both received life sentences.
• Sante’s sentencing statement was combative and self-pitying:
  • Sante, to the judge: “This is the first time in United States history that an innocent mother and son have been convicted of a crime that didn’t happen.” (45:18)
  • Dr. Engels: “If Shantae can reframe herself as the victim… then she doesn’t have to confront the reality of what she’s done… Admitting guilt would mean admitting weakness, flaws, and a loss of control.” (46:17)

Aftermath: Desperation, Betrayal, and Death (47:21–end)

• Awaiting extradition to California for Kasdan’s murder (potential death penalty), Sante and Kenny attempted to control their story in the media but only worsened their reputations.
• Kenny, in a breaking point, took a Court TV reporter hostage with a pen, demanding authorities spare Sante the death penalty in exchange for her release.
  • Dr. Engels: “Taking the reporter hostage was him in pure crisis mode trying to save his mother’s life. He reacted the only way he knew how—impulsively, dramatically, and with total disregard for the consequences.” (49:43)
• Ultimately, Kenny confessed fully, tried to protect Sante, and testified against her (ironically betraying while trying to save her).
• Both were convicted for Kasdan’s murder, receiving more life sentences. Sante died in prison in 2014; Kenny remains incarcerated in California.
• Final Reflection: Kenny’s “blind faith” in Sante left him isolated, lost, and doomed to repeat his cycle of confinement in perpetuity.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Engels (On Enmeshment):
  “It is most certainly a breakdown of boundaries, but not necessarily a sexual relationship. … It’s emotional regulation, validation, and control.” (08:07)

• Vanessa Richardson (On Sante’s scheme):
  “That last one would be the hardest. … In an attempt to figure it out, Shantae called Irene one day, pretending to be a sweepstakes employee and claimed Irene had won a free trip. But Irene wasn’t easily fooled and hung up.” (22:48)

• Dr. Engels (On instrumental violence):
  “The methodical nature also shows how completely she had absorbed Kenny into her thinking. When someone is this enmeshed, the crime becomes a shared mission.” (27:52)

• Kenny Kimes (in custody):
  “Mom, what should I do?” (34:47)
  Indicative of his total psychological dependence.

• Sante Kimes (at sentencing):
  “This is the first time in United States history that an innocent mother and son have been convicted of a crime that didn’t happen.” (45:18)

• Dr. Engels (on Sante’s denial and performance):
  “If Shantae can reframe herself as the victim, as the misunderstood figure at the center of some conspiracy, then she doesn’t have to confront the reality of what she’s done…” (46:17)

• Dr. Engels (on Kenny’s hostage-taker moment):
  “Taking the reporter hostage was him in pure crisis mode trying to save his mother’s life. He reacted the only way he knew how… with total disregard for the consequences.” (49:43)

Key Timestamps

• 00:52: Episode theme introduction; Sante’s blind faith and psychological grip over Kenny.
• 05:44: Sante’s shoplifting compulsion; Dr. Engels’ psychological analysis.
• 08:07: Deep dive into enmeshment and boundary breakdown.
• 11:22: Fraud escalates to murder (David Kasdan).
• 13:08: The psychological roots of Kenny’s complicity—dependency and impaired autonomy.
• 15:07–20:52: Laying out the plan to target Irene Silverman.
• 22:48: The notary ruse and escalation of the Silverman plot.
• 27:52: Instrumental violence and the psychology of shared criminality.
• 31:08: Arrest operation and police sting.
• 34:47: Kenny’s panic and regression in police custody.
• 39:35: Investigators realize “Manny Garon” is Kenny Kimes; unraveling the evidence.
• 45:18: Sante’s sentencing outburst.
• 49:43: Kenny’s hostage crisis and confession.
• 52:25: The final fate of Sante and Kenny.

Tone

Thoughtful, forensic, at times incredulous—balancing clinical insight with gripping, accessible storytelling. Vanessa’s narrative presence is both empathetic and direct; Dr. Engels brings a calm, analytical expertise that demystifies the psychology without excusing the crimes.

Final Thoughts

This episode masterfully dissects not only the criminal acts of Sante and Kenny Kimes, but also the psychological foundations that enabled them—from enmeshment and boundary violations to narcissistic entitlement and dependency. It’s a chilling, insightful exploration for anyone interested in the dark intersections of crime, family, and the human mind.

Next episode preview: The hosts will deep-dive into another murderer’s psyche—details at the end of the episode.

For those fascinated by true crime, psychology, and the blurred lines between love, control, and destruction, this episode is essential listening.