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- [00:07]
Vanessa Richardson
This is Crime House. When you think of a serial killer, odds are a specific kind of person comes to mind. Someone who kills for the sick thrill of holding a human life in their hands and the rush of getting away with it. Someone clever and conniving, always a step ahead of the authorities. Joshua Wade was not that kind of person. He was chaotic and unpredictable, far from a criminal mastermind, but he was also dangerous because you never knew where he'd strike next. And when he finally did attack, it was too late to stop him. The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
- [01:17]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
And I'm Dr. Tristan Ingalls. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history. Analyzing what makes a killer Crime House.
- [01:27]
Vanessa Richardson
Is made possible by you. Please rate, review and follow Killer Minds to enhance your listening experience with ad. Free early access to each two part series and bonus content. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Before we get into the story, you should know it contains descriptions of mutilation and murder. Listener discretion is advised. This is our second and final episode on the Alaska based serial killer Joshua Wade. In 2000, Josh was implicated in the death of 33 year old Della Brown. And years later in 2007, he was charged with the murder of his next door neighbor, 1552 year old Mindy Schloss. Last time we covered Josh's traumatic childhood, his evolution into a dangerous criminal, and how he escaped punishment for one murder only to be charged with another. This time we'll cover the authorities attempt to bring Josh to justice and the disturbing revelations he shared once he was back behind bars.
- [02:35]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
And as Vanessa takes you through the story, I'll be talking about things like organized versus disorganized killers, the psychology behind violent acts in prison, and why Josh would choose victims that reminded him of his mother.
- [02:50]
Vanessa Richardson
And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?
- [02:59]
Morgan Absher
Hey, it's Vanessa. And if you love Killer Minds, where we take you deep into the psychology of history's most chilling murders, then you have to check out clues with Morgan Absher and Kaylin Moore. Every Wednesday, Kaylin and Morgan take you deep into the world of the most notorious crimes ever, clue by clue. And one thing I find really interesting about clues is how they break down the ways that even the smallest pieces of evidence can crack a case wide open. From serial killers to shocking murders, Clues dives into all the forensic details and brilliant sleuthing of the world's most infamous cases. Clues is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Clues wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [03:50]
Unknown
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- [04:40]
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- [05:11]
Vanessa Richardson
In the year 2000, 20 year old Joshua Wade was arrested for the brutal murder of a native Alaskan woman named Della Brown. But even though prosecutors had a taped confession, a jury acquitted Josh of murder and assault charges. Still, he was found guilty of tampering with evidence but only served a few years in prison. By 2004 he was out on probation For a little while, Josh stayed out of trouble. But once his probation ended in August 2007, 27 year old Josh returned to his criminal ways. He became fixated on his 52 year old neighbor, Mindy Schloss and decided to rob her house. But things didn't go as planned. Josh ended up kidnapping Mindy instead. Then he drove her out to a wooded area and killed her.
- [06:06]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
So Josh is very atypical when it comes to serial murderers because nothing about this is consistent. If we look at his victims, his first victim, Della, he engaged in necrophilia with and defiled her body. But he did not sexually assault Mindy or engage in that with her, even though he was reportedly romantically interested in her. If he was a serial sexual murderer, this would fit the profile in a sense, because they don't typically sexually assault women that they know. But he's not a serial sexual murderer. So why is this murder different? The only thing that stands out was he was alone when he took Mindy's life, whereas with Della, he was partying with his friends, he was under the influence, and he wanted to show off. This is markedly different behavior here, and those differences are significant. That's why, at least so far in the story, I remain a little unconvinced that he actually did all of those things with Della and didn't just happen upon her. But I also think his decision to ultimately kill Mindy was because she was a loose end and she could identify him to police if he did let her go.
- [07:18]
Vanessa Richardson
Well, it didn't take authorities long to realize Mindy was missing. And on August 9, 2007, six days after Josh killed her, investigators got a break in the case. There was surveillance footage from the ATMs Josh had used to steal Mindy's money. He'd taken precautions to disguise himself himself with a hat pulled over his eyes and a bandana covering his mouth. But at one point, he briefly pulled the bandana down, revealing the lower half of his face. It wasn't enough to identify him, but detectives made note of his jacket. It was black with distinct gray stripes down the arms. Then a few days later, investigators got their hands on more surveillance video. This time, it showed someone abandoning Mindy's car in a parking lot at the Anchorage airport. Although the footage was grainy, detectives could tell the suspect was a young white male. A week after discovering the surveillance footage, the FBI's K9 unit was sent to assist the case. Two bloodhounds were given a sample from the driver's seat of Mindy Schloss's car. Then the dogs were taken to an atm. From the surveillance video, the dogs picked up a trail and followed it down the street to the house next to Mindy's, where Josh was living. That was enough for the police to get a search Warrant, and by 5:00am the following morning, detectives were at Josh's door to execute it. Josh wasn't home, but he shared the house with two other young men. Unsurprisingly, the common areas were very messy. Dishes in the sink, dirty clothes scattered on the floor. But Josh's room was the complete opposite. The bed was made with crisp corners. The Floor was vacuumed. Clothes were hung up neatly in the closet. Even his collection of pornographic DVDs was meticulously organized. Investigators also found drawings in Josh's room. They mostly featured naked women in suggestive poses with devil horns sprouting from their heads. Every woman's eyes were left completely blank, empty white voids.
- [09:33]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
Let's start with his room. Given how disorganized Josh is when it comes to his crimes, the very orderly condition of his personal space seems contradictory. I think a lot of people may expect to see a room in chaos or disarray. However, this actually makes sense for Josh's profile. So why the meticulously organized room? All serial killers crave control. And given that Josh lacks impulse control and is quite a disorganized offender, one thing he can control and with little effort is his environment. The more organized his personal space feels, the less disorganized he may feel internally. But also, when you've spent a lot of time in a small cell, you have to share with another offender. You learn very quickly about respect and that respect, especially in prison and jail, involves being clean and organized, not touching anyone else's belongings and respecting your celly space. This could be learned behavior from the years that Josh had been institutionalized. Now, let's talk about the artwork. Psychologists use projective assessments to explore an individual's unconscious thoughts, emotions, and personality traits. A very well known projective assessment is the Rorschach test or the inkblots. An individual in that case is presented with an ambiguous image. And then we observe how they interpret them, and we look for themes. We look for signs of disorganized thinking and even psychosis or deviance. Josh's drawings can tell us something, even if they aren't ambiguous. For example, and without seeing them, the white eyes can suggest oppositional or uncooperative attitudes toward the subject. And in this case, that would be women.
- [11:15]
Vanessa Richardson
In addition to Josh's disturbing artwork, detectives also noticed that Josh's bedroom window gave him a clear view of the house next door where Mindy Schloss lived. They suspected he used the window to keep tabs on Mindy and learn her routine. But the biggest piece of evidence was a black jacket they'd found with gray stripes down the arms. It looked just like the one the suspect wore in the ATM surveillance video. Investigators also found a withdrawal receipt for 500 doll hundred dollars inside one of the pockets. It was starting to look like the police had found their guy. The officers working the case all remembered that Josh had previously been implicated in a high profile murder. Now, they were certain he was involved in another, but to confirm their suspicions, they had to bring Josh in for questioning and he was nowhere to be found. Officers patrolled his neighborhood for weeks, but they didn't see any sign of him until finally, September 2, 2007, Josh was spotted outside a friend's house. Squad cars descended on the location, but by the time they arrived, Josh had already fled the scene. He ran to the nearby apartment of a female acquaintance and asked to use her phone. When she hesitated, he forced his way in. Some neighbors saw what happened and called the police. Within a few minutes, they realized Josh was the man inside that apartment. It wasn't long before the SWAT team had the place surrounded. But when they told Josh to come out, he refused. And he wouldn't let his friend come out either. They weren't ready to barge in, though. The officers suspected Josh was armed and didn't want to take any chances. It was now a hostage situation and they had no idea what Josh was capable of.
- [13:17]
Unknown
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- [13:48]
Morgan Absher
Hey, it's Vanessa.
- [13:49]
Vanessa Richardson
And if you love Killer Minds, where.
- [13:51]
Morgan Absher
We take you deep into the psychology.
- [13:53]
Vanessa Richardson
Of history's most chilling murders.
- [13:55]
Morgan Absher
Then you have to check out Clues with Kaylin Moore and Morgan Abshur. Every Wednesday, Morgan and Kaylin take you.
- [14:03]
Vanessa Richardson
Deep into the world of the most.
- [14:04]
Morgan Absher
Notorious crimes ever, clue by clue. And one thing I find really interesting about Clues is how they break down the ways that even the smallest pieces of evidence can crack a case wide open. From serial killers to shocking murders, Clues.
- [14:20]
Vanessa Richardson
Dives into all the forensic details and brilliant sleuthing of the world's most infamous cases. If you're looking for a show that.
- [14:27]
Morgan Absher
Has compelling storytelling, crime scene analysis, and a new perspective through some of the world's most puzzling true crime cases, then you have to check out Clues. Clues is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Clues wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [14:52]
Vanessa Richardson
On September 2, 2007, 27 year old Josh Wade found himself in a standoff with the police after being connected with the disappearance of his neighbor, Mindy Schloss. He was hiding out in a friend's apartment. But even though the place was surrounded by a SWAT team, Josh refused to come out. And he wasn't letting his friend leave either. To try and take the edge off, Josh spent the next hour playing music and drinking alcohol. Then, drunk and in distress, he called his defense attorney from the Della Brown case. She advised Josh to give himself up. But still, Josh held out.
- [15:33]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
I have actually been called into situations similar to this, but in correctional settings, usually when they call me in, it's because an inmate had boarded up. That's what we call it. That means that they refuse to leave their cell, they're not letting custody come in, they're not accepting food, and they need to be removed from their cell. And they don't want to use force. We call it a use of force intervention. They call in someone like myself with mental health background or a mental health expert to help with the negotiation process. And what I've learned in is that whenever somebody is either having a hostage or in a hostage negotiation situation, or if they're boarded up like this, which is very similar, the reason that they're not complying is because they're trying to maintain a sense of control over the situation. They want to leave and end the circumstances on their terms. And usually there's some kind of bargaining that needs to happen in order for them to feel that they can relinquish control to the people who are outside that room or outside that apartment. Josh is someone who needs power and he needs control. And this is his way of maintaining some sense of that, knowing that he's going to be relieving himself of control for a very long time once those handcuffs go on him.
- [16:55]
Vanessa Richardson
Regardless of what Josh thought of the situation, he wasn't fully in control because it turned out he wasn't armed after all.
- [17:02]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
He.
- [17:02]
Vanessa Richardson
After another half hour or so, he let his friend go. Then he gave himself up. Once again, Josh was back in police custody, but the authorities worried they didn't have enough to convict him of Mindy Schloss's murder. They still remembered that he was acquitted of murdering Della Brown due to a lack of evidence the authorities didn't want to repeat. But they had yet to find Mindy's body. However, that worry was put to rest 11 days later, on September 13, 2008. That's when a utility worker found Mindy's partially burned remains in the woods outside the town of Wasilla. Not long after that, DNA taken from the steering wheel of Mindy's car came back as a match for Josh Wade. He was held without bail while the state put together their case against him. And this time around, there was plenty of physical evidence tying Josh to the crime scene. In addition to the DNA in Mindy's car, two of Josh's pubic hairs had been discovered on her living room carpet. Then there was Josh's jacket, which was found with an ATM receipt for a $500 withdrawal from Mindy's bank account. Plus, investigators discovered photos of Josh holding a.45 caliber Glock pistol, which matched a bullet casing found near Mindy's body. It was more than enough to tie Josh to Mindy's death. And on April 17, 2008, seven months after he was arrested, Josh was formally charged with first degree murder. Prosecutors also included charges for carjacking, plus use of a gun to commit murder, which made him eligible for the death penalty. In federal court, Josh was terrified of being sentenced to death. He shared his fears with a fellow inmate and accidentally discussed some sensitive details from his case. It's not clear what Josh said, but he got paranoid that the man would repeat the information. So Josh addressed the situation in the only way he knew how, with violence. In August of 2008, Josh attacked that other inmate. He pushed the man against a wall in a chokehold and threatened to kill him if he talked. It doesn't seem like Josh was punished for the incident. He was allowed to stay in the prison's general population, and it wasn't long before he went after someone else. Less than a year later, in May 2009, when Josh was 29, he allegedly attacked a different inmate this time. Like in the case of Della Brown, the victim was Native Alaskan, and the assault was sexual in nature. The inmate also was labeled as a person of low intelligence, caused by fear fetal alcohol syndrome. So Josh was specifically taking advantage of someone vulnerable.
- [20:01]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
So I've worked in maximum security state prisons for years, and violence in prison is a very common occurrence. Whenever there is an individual who's incarcerated, who's in the mental health program that engage in an act of violence against their cellmate or any other inmate for that matter, they call in mental health. And our role is to evaluate whether or not their mental illness played a role in the behavior. Very similar to, let's say, a criminal responsibility evaluation if they were in pretrial stages. But more often than not, when I am called in to assess this, what I have found is that the inmates who engage in violence, they've learned that violence means survival in a prison setting. They need to do that in order to Ensure that they don't become victimized later. It is also commonly used as a form of manipulation population to game the system that was motivated by personal gain. For example, if they can prove they're a danger to a cellmate and therefore a liability, the institution will give them a single cell status to reduce that liability. Single cell status is the most sought after status in a prison setting. Many people would not want to share such a small space with anyone for a number of reasons. One, especially if they're going to be in there for life, you want your own space. But being single celled, they can feel more comfortable physically and men that in mind, let's explore Josh's possible motivations for this. Obviously, he's worried that his cellmate will tell authorities the sensitive details he's shared. This could simply be a case of witness tampering. But at the same time, if other inmates knew that he would not address someone who, quote, snitched on him, it would affect his reputation, and we know how important that is for Josh. Confronting his cellly violently allows Josh to appear hardened for the sake of surviving in his environment. It's also worth noting that the last time he was caug was because friends of his told authorities about Dela's body and what he had said about it. So this is the second time now that Josh's need to talk about what he's done or to brag about something even if he is not the person that did, was his downfall. Which means he's projecting the anger he has toward himself onto his celly. Now let's talk about him targeting another inmate and sexually assaulting them. Sexual assault in prison is common, and because it's so common, there are federal laws and regulation to address it, and it's known as the Prison Rape Elimination Act. Also, incarcerated individuals with developmental delays are at an increased risk of victimization and exploitation. Josh targeted an inmate who was more vulnerable than most. He was developmentally delayed and a minority. He likely had very little protection. So why would he do this? Well, sexual assault's about power and control, and right now Josh is feeling a total loss of that. He's detained, he's facing the a death penalty, and at a minimum, life in prison. His old Sully is now a witness. He does not have support and he needs to regain power wherever he can.
- [23:11]
Vanessa Richardson
What does this behavior say about his self control or lack thereof, especially as he's awaiting trial.
- [23:18]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
Josh has been showing significant executive function impairment in specific impulse control deficits. The fact that he's unable to contain himself While awaiting trial indicates to me that he's likely resigned to the fact that he will be in prison for the rest of his life, at a minimum, and will be trying to create a reputation, which we talked about. It's something that he values, and this reputation will be his way of surviving in prison. Whether it's to ensure he's not targeted by others or to ensure a certain housing placement, there is a reason for it. And like I mentioned, sometimes individuals offend intentionally for a transfer or to get a single cell status. But Josh also significant executive functioning impairments. In specific, very significant impulse control deficits. He acts without really thinking or even planning, and then later experiences confusion or distress as a result. That's also a driving factor.
- [24:14]
Vanessa Richardson
Whatever motivated the attack, it didn't help Josh's case. If he was going to avoid the death penalty, he needed to be on his best behavior, and he clearly was at. So Josh asked for a plea deal instead. As part of the agreement, Josh had to plead guilty to the murder of Mindy Schloss in state and federal court. He also agreed to admit that he had killed Della Brown, even though he'd been acquitted on those murder charges. The deal went into effect on February 17, 2010. In accordance with the plea deal, Josh was sentenced to 99 years behind bars without the possibility of parole. On top of that, he was given a federal life sentence. So there was no chance he would ever be free again. Josh appeared to take his fate in stride. He acknowledged that even though he had a traumatic past, there was no excuse for what he'd done. He said, quote, I deserve much worse. I'm sorry.
- [25:15]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
So to consider the authenticity or genuineness of anything that I do in my work as a forensic psychologist, I always consider the context, the individual, and what the person seeks to gain. And when it comes to Josh seemingly taking responsibility for his actions, the context is clear. He's at a sentencing hearing. In order for the judge to accept the terms of the plea bargain, which included eliminating the death penalty, something that Josh was very fearful of, he had to make admissions. He had to take responsibility as part of that plea bargain, and not just of the murder of Mindy, but also of Della, Therefore, he had something to gain by saying this. And the fact that he says I deserve much worse, when at the same time, what is worse is the death penalty, and that was something that he intentionally wanted to avoid, speaks to the genuineness of that statement. Some serial killers do confess. They generally don't express guilt, let alone take responsibility. But of course, there are exceptions. And as I've been outlining, Josh is a bit of an outlier when it comes to the typical patterns of serial killer killers. This act of taking responsibility appears motivated by selfishness. His attempt at apologizing was expressed only to benefit himself.
- [26:33]
Vanessa Richardson
Well, Josh's apparent remorseful attitude didn't last all that long. During his remarks, the judge called Josh a coward for going after defenseless women. The comment seemed to get under Josh's skin. He told the judge that wasn't true because in the past, he'd also killed men. At that point, Josh had only been implicated in the murders of two women, Della Brown and Mindy Schloss. But if what Josh was saying was true, he had other victims. And eventually the full scope of his crimes would come to light.
- [27:14]
Andrea Canning
Dateline True Crime Weekly. Andrea Canning and the Dateline team cover breaking crime news around the country. And now a special series with daily updates from the trial of Sean Combs.
- [27:25]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
I'll be talking to NBC News correspondent.
- [27:27]
Unknown
Chloe Meloss every day after court about what she's seeing inside the witnesses, the evidence, and what it all means.
- [27:35]
Andrea Canning
Dateline True Crime Weekly. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:43]
Vanessa Richardson
In February 2010, 29 year old Josh Wade was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Mindy Schloss. Loss given his previous attacks on fellow inmates. Josh began his sentence in solitary confinement. But the isolation was too much for him and Josh soon requested a transfer to the federal prison system. He thought he might be able to fly under the radar there and avoid solitary.
- [28:11]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
This is the behavior that I've been outlying. Josh is institutionalized. He knows how to game the system. Him.
- [28:18]
Vanessa Richardson
Yes, exactly. Because he wasn't going to get a transfer just by asking for it. He needed to offer something. So in 2014, four years after beginning his sentence, Josh agreed to another plea deal. As part of it, he confessed to three additional murders on top of killing Mindy Schloss and Della Brown. Josh said the first one happened back in 1994 when he was just, just 14 years old. @ the time, Josh was living with his dad, who had refused to feed him after they'd gotten into a disagreement. Desperate for something to eat, Josh went out late at night to search for food on the streets. And he took his dad's gun with him. That was when he came across a 38 year old named John Michael Martin, a native Alaskan man with schizophrenia. John had been out having coffee with some friends at a nearby restaurant and left around 2:30am John was known to be a generous person. When he saw Josh. He offered to help the teenage boy get some food, but Josh was on edge. He didn't trust John. And when the man's back was turned, Josh shot him in the back of the head. Less than an hour later, John's body was discovered, discovered a quarter of a mile away from the restaurant. By then, Josh was long gone.
- [29:43]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
This is just more evidence that confirms that Josh is a product of his environment. He was a hungry young boy. Who knows how long he had been going without food or how infrequently he had meals. We know his dad had a pattern of withholding food whenever he wanted to punish Josh. And Josh knows that withholding food was not because of economic hardship, but because of cruelty and abuse. Imagine the resentment and anger that that would cause. Hunger depletes the emotional or psychological resources needed for self control. Hunger can also increase irritability or anger, which was likely compounded by anger toward his abusive parents and the lack of interventions from anyone. And it impairs decision making and it slows thinking. He's 14, so his decision making abilities are already impaired because he doesn't have a fully developed frontal lobe. He's seeking food out of anger, survival and instability. This is pivotal because this could have been the start of his impulse, behavioral patterns. I want to circle back to why Josh had that reaction to the judge when he called him a coward for attacking defenseless women, because that's significant. His reaction is also typical of someone who has been institutionalized because being called a coward is a challenge to his reputation or credibility and certainly his sense of power. Which is why he had to correct this perception of him by impulsively sharing these additional murders that he's never spoken about before. And that, I'm going to be honest, I have a hard time believing, given the circumstances in which he made these admissions, he was seeking to gain something and he was already serving life behind bars.
- [31:23]
Vanessa Richardson
Do serial killers tend to start young?
- [31:26]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
No, they don't. They typically start with sadistic or cruel behaviors towards animals or peers and gradually move to killing. The typical age of onset for serial killers is around their mid-20s. Of course, there are always outliers who start younger, but they are rare. In this case. It doesn't seem like Josh was looking to kill anyone his first time. Provided this is an accurate account. Yes, he did bring a gun, but he's a child and it seems as if he was initially looking to rob or steal to provide for himself, and then killed John. And once again, it felt like if this was true, it was an impulse that Was motivated by fear, anger, or slowed thinking. In fact, most if not all of his kills that he confessed to Appear to be disorganized or unplanned, not controlled and driven by impulse. There's no standard method for him. He targets vulnerable people and doesn't discriminate by gender. All of them appear financially motivated, with the exception of Della. It is a myth that all serial killers target exclusively women or exclusively men. For example, Dennis Rader, the BTK, targeted men, women and children. However, in most cases, serial killers do typically target an exclusive demographic. Like Dahmer targeted exclusively men and Bundy targeted exclusively women. Josh is once again atypical in a lot of ways so far.
- [32:48]
Vanessa Richardson
The next murder Josh confessed to happened five years later when he was 19. But even though he was still young, A pattern was beginning to form. In this case, Josh went after 30 year old Henry onto US Rock. In December 1999, Henry's body was found at a budget motel in Fairview, Alaska. And until John Josh confessed to killing him, his murder had gone unsolved. Like Della Brown and John Michael Martin, Henry was also native Alaskan. He was also mentally ill, although the nature of his condition is unclear. Josh didn't give a lot of specifics about the attack, but he said he'd killed Henry in a robbery gone wrong. Just a few months later, In August of 2000, Josh killed his fifth victim, who has yet to be identified. According to Josh's confession, this man was with Della Brown the night he murdered her. As Josh told it, he'd actually come across Della and the man she was with by chance. There was no mention of passing her on the side of the road like his friends had said during Josh's murder trial. Instead, Josh claimed he was looking for a place to avoid the police, Though it's not clear why. Ultimately, he chose the abandoned shed where Della's body was later found found. In this version of the story, Della and the unidentified man were having sex in the shed When Josh interrupted them. The man got angry and attacked Josh. During the ensuing fight, Della got hit in the head so hard she died. To cover up what happened, Josh said he knocked the man out and put him in the trunk of his car. Then he drove out to the woods outside the town of Wasilla, Close to where he'd later kill Mindy Schloss. Then he claimed he shot the man with a shotgun and left his body in the forest. However, as of this recording, police have yet to find his remains. In the wake of Josh's confession, Questions swirled about whether he'd committed even more murders. And according to his family, Josh did have additional victims. Josh's sister said he'd admitted to killing a convenience store clerk. She thought there were others he hadn't told her about, too. Josh's dad, Greg, also had his suspicions. He believed Josh had murdered other women besides Della Brown and Mindy Schloss, which Josh had alluded to during the Della Brown murder investigation. Greg had another theory, though. He thought his son killed victims who reminded him of his mother, Kathy Catherine. Josh had a rocky relationship with her, especially after she shipped him off to Alaska. According to Greg, Catherine had long, dark, curly hair, just like Della and Mindy. And interestingly enough, while Josh was in prison, he married an older woman who also resembled Catherine.
- [35:51]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
Serial killers who targeted women that looked like someone they knew, like an ex girlfriend or their mother, were generally organized killers. They had a desired victim, and as a result, they had to be cunning about it. They had to plan. They had to find effective ways to lure them. They had to know where to find them, and they typically fantasized about it beforehand. Mindy is the only victim that we know of that he intentionally targeted and possibly planned for. To some degree, Della and John he happened upon, and it's unclear how he came to find. Henry. Henry. Most, but not all, were native. Most, but not all, were killed with a firearm. The only similarities his victims consistently had is that they were available, vulnerable, and desirable. So was he intentionally targeting women who looked like his mother? It is certainly possible. Even though he happened upon Della, he still chose to allegedly assault her and defile her body. There is a reason for. For that. He's come across a lot of women in his life. He doesn't choose to kill each of them. So there was something about her that drew him to her. With Mindy, he had been watching her from next door. She may have been desirable to him because she looked like his mother. And this could explain why he really did choose to kill her in the end. This is supported even more if his wife also looks like his mother as well. But why? To understand that, we have to understand his childhood and his relationship with his mother. We know she was emotionally unavailable, neglectful, and did not protect him. As a result, he attempted to take his life. He may have hoped that this would have caused some kind of change in her, that maybe she would show how much she loved and valued him. But instead, she sent him to live with his abusive father. Targeting women who looked like her could have been a way for him to unconsciously release his rage for her. And then marrying a woman who looked like her could be a way to unconsciously get the love and loyalty from her that he never could. God. But in reality, only Josh knows how he feels about his mother. I'm personally not convinced that this is the case for Josh.
- [38:00]
Vanessa Richardson
In the end, Josh never talked about why he went after women who resembled his mother or why he killed his other victims either. But the murders he did confess to got him the transfer he was seeking. After his confessions in 2014, Josh Josh was moved to a federal prison in Indiana. However, he was still labeled as a danger to other inmates and remained in solitary confinement. He spent his time in an 80 square foot cell with only one hour a day outside for exercise. After that, he was transferred around a couple more times. Eventually, he ended up back in state custody in Indiana. And that is where he ultimately met his end. In June 2024, after 10 years in prison, Josh was found dead in his cell. He was 44 years old. As of this recording, the authorities are still investigating the circumstances of his death. The FBI is also looking into whether or not Josh had other victims, along with bringing closure to any unsolved cold cases. It could show shed additional light on Josh's psychology, who he went after, and why. Because in many ways, it seems like Josh didn't fit the typical mold of a serial killer.
- [39:20]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
Yeah, he really does not feel like a typical serial killer to me either. So does he meet the threshold of a serial killer? Well, he certainly has enough victims, according to him. I mean, we only have one that really is confirmed by him.
- [39:34]
Vanessa Richardson
Him.
- [39:35]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
The murders were all separate events, and there were periods of cooling off between each murder. I mean, there were several years between each murder at times. So according to the FBI standards, he does meet the threshold, but I'm not entirely convinced that he does. If he had simply just robbed each of his victims like he initially intended, even if he had assaulted them physically in the process, he would be very consistent with most individuals that I encounter in the correctional system. He seems to me like a, quote, career criminal who is opportunistic, transactional, and a product of his environments, which includes his time incarcerated. From what was shared in the story, there was no real evidence of him obsessing about murdering people or fantasizing about it. And I'm not convinced that he gained any psychological thrill or pleasure from the murders the way we typically see with serial killers. And also his confessions. They all seem to come when he has something to gain from them. And there's no DNA evidence that ties him to the crime. Scene. They can't find the remains of the people he's allegedly killed. They can't find the murder weapon. To me, it's something that I doubt. I doubt it very much.
- [40:46]
Vanessa Richardson
Would identifying more victims have a sort of snowball effect? Could it help solidify the type of person Josh targeted, therefore helping the FBI identify more victims on top of the that.
- [40:58]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
In my mind, the only way that this would be helpful is if there was more of a consistent pattern here and if they can actually find DNA evidence that ties him directly to these crimes. If not, it leaves more questions since we're profiling him with the lens of a serial killer. The lack of consistency alone, like I said, makes me question the validity of his confessions. They were all done after his conviction for the killing of Mindy. To me, it feels like he only disclosed them after his. His reputation was challenged by a judge and when he sought to gain transfer to the federal institution, which I think was motivated by safety concerns. Josh is also driven by a need for that power that a reputation and credibility give him, like I've already outlined. So I personally, if I was involved in this, would want to investigate whether or not it was actually him that even did these murders, or if he had insider knowledge and he knew who might have done them and that he wanted to take the credit because he's already serving life behind bars. It would help his reputation and it would facilitate a transfer, like I mentioned, is a way of manipulating the system to make things more comfortable for him. It's also quite possible that he simply wanted to be labeled as a serial killer for that reputation and that credibility alone. When we assess, we're assessing for people who malinger, meaning feigning psychiatric symptoms. But we also have psychological assessments to see if someone's trying to fake positively or over report certain things. And in this case, I feel Josh is over reporting actions and illegal activities that he may not have committed for a personal reason. He wants to gain something for that. He's overcompensating for years of feeling vulnerable and dependent. And this would certainly be a way, in his mind, to ensure that if people feared him, that wouldn't happen. Among the people he surrounded him with, that he wouldn't be a victim and he's gonna be surrounded with other offenders for the rest of his life.
- [42:57]
Vanessa Richardson
Regardless of how he's labeled, Josh's crimes left a deep, lasting scar on his cond community. Whether these crimes were planned or he went after a specific type of person, the result was the same. According to Josh, at least five people lost their lives because of him. Hopefully there wasn't more. But if Josh did claim additional victims, we can only hope they are identified so their families can find some closure. And if there's any comfort to be taken, it's that Josh, Joshua Wade will never be able to hurt anyone again. Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer.
- [43:51]
Dr. Tristan Ingalls
Killer Minds is a Crime House Original Powered by Paves Studios Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at Crime House. And don't forget to rate, review and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference and.
- [44:12]
Vanessa Richardson
To enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad free free, along with early access to each thrilling two part series and exciting bonus content. Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson and Dr. Tristan Engels and is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team, Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marina, Natalie Pertzovsky, Sarah Camp, Noni Aqualagu, Hania Saeed and Kerry Murphy. Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was ICE and Tracking an Alaskan Serial Killer by Monty Francis. Thank you for listening.
- [45:13]
Morgan Absher
How can one tiny clue change every everything? Kailyn Moore and Morgan Absher break it all down on their new show, Clues. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Just search Clues wherever you listen to podcasts.