SERIAL KILLER: "The Blood Countess" Pt. 2 with Dr. Harini Bhat from Hidden History

Summary

---

SERIAL KILLER: "The Blood Countess" Pt. 2

Podcast: Serial Killers & Murderous Minds
Hosts: Vanessa Richardson, Dr. Tristan Engels
Guest: Dr. Harini Bhatt (Hidden History)
Date: May 21, 2026

---

Brief Overview

In the conclusion of their two-part deep dive into the infamous "Blood Countess," Elizabeth Bathory, hosts Vanessa Richardson and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels—joined by Dr. Harini Bhatt—explore the final years and psychological unraveling of one of history's most prolific and debated female serial killers. Intertwining historical context, psychological dissection, and the legacy of rumor, the episode investigates whether Bathory truly was the monster of legend or a victim of conspiracy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Power, Rumor, and Paranoia (03:02–08:34)

• Context:
  Elizabeth Bathory presided over her estate alone as her husband, Count Ferencz Nádasdy, was often at war. Rumors swirled about the horrors within her castle walls, specifically the torture and murder of young peasant girls by Bathory and her inner circle, spearheaded in part by her confidante Anna Darvulia.
• Religious Tensions:
  After Bathory’s suspicious burial practices, tensions with local clergy rose—threatening Anna with excommunication as the suspected "dark influence" behind Elizabeth.
• Quote - On Compartmentalization and Morality:

  “Someone holding strong religious beliefs while also engaging in extreme violence can seem contradictory, but it’s also not a new concept... It’s compartmentalization.”
  — Dr. Tristan Engels (08:34)

• Psychological Framing:
  Dr. Engels explains how power can lead to moral justification and detachment, masking violence as “deserved” or “necessary.”

---

2. Loss, Escalation, and Psychological Decline (10:27–15:01)

• Ferencz Nádasdy’s Death:
  With Elizabeth’s husband’s passing in 1604, she lost her primary source of stability and support.
• Downward Spiral:
  Left vulnerable and overwhelmed, Bathory’s violence became increasingly erratic and severe.
• Violence as Regulation:
  Dr. Engels describes Bathory’s violent acts as emotional regulation tools:

  “Her violence is used as a regulation tool. When she’s frustrated, when she’s distressed, when she needs a release, she turns to violence.”
  — Dr. Tristan Engels (13:45)

• Escalation and Experimentation:
  The forms of torture diversified, reflecting both loss of control and a need for stimulation.

---

3. Intensification and the Blood Rituals (15:01–26:10)

• Relocation and Increased Brazen Violence:
  Bathory moves to Castle Čachtice for privacy, setting up a new torture chamber and ramping up her brutality even further.
• Obsession with Youth & Blood Bathing:
  Spurred by Anna Darvulia, Elizabeth begins to believe bathing in the blood of virgins can restore her youth, using this ritual as both solace and a desperate grasp at control.
• Quote - On Aging and Control:

  “The one thing she cannot control... is the natural process of aging. Seeing herself aging likely represents a loss in all of those areas. And unlike people or her environment, it’s something she can’t dominate or reshape.”
  — Dr. Tristan Engels (20:53)

• Public Displays of Violence:
  Notable moment:

  “Benedict watched as Elizabeth pulled out a dagger and proceeded to stab each one of the girl’s fingers... burned them until they were black.”
  — Vanessa Richardson (22:10)

---

4. Expanding the Victim Pool & Downfall (26:59–42:25)

• Switch to Noble Victims:
  After Anna’s death, guided by a new forest witch, Bathory turns to preying on girls from affluent families, exploiting finishing school customs to lure aristocratic daughters.
• Calculated Deception:

  “She’s leveraging her identity and her knowledge of social structures to gain access and reduce suspicion. And this is a very serious escalation because she’s targeting families of higher status, which is very risky...”
  — Dr. Tristan Engels (33:39)

• Brazen Torture Presages the End:
  Bathory’s attacks become too conspicuous; injured noble girls are seen by their families, resulting in formal complaints escalating to the king.
• Arrest, Confession, and Trial:
  In 1610, the authorities arrest Elizabeth and her accomplices. Over 300 witnesses testify; estimates of victims range from 80 to 600.
• Quote - On Interrogation and Confessions:

  “Torture is not at all considered a valid or reliable interrogation strategy... the risk of false or distorted confessions increases.”
  — Dr. Tristan Engels (40:28)

• House Arrest and Death:
  Elizabeth is never formally imprisoned but confined to Čachtice Castle until her death in 1614.

---

5. Legacy, Legend, and Debates (42:25–44:54)

• Alternative Narratives:
  Debate persists whether Bathory’s crimes were real or fabricated by political enemies. Some posit the “finishing school” was legitimate, Bathory a victim of misogyny and power struggles.
• Enduring Folklore:
  Bathory remains entrenched in vampire legends, ghost stories, and as a cautionary historical figure.
• Quote - On Historical Certainty:

  “Whatever the truth is, one thing’s for certain. Elizabeth Bathory’s reign struck terror into the hearts of those who crossed her. And in the end, her tale continues to haunt and mystify us.”
  — Vanessa Richardson (44:54)

---

Extended Conversation: Hidden History & The Role of Science in Dark Legends

(44:54–53:16)

• Dr. Harini Bhatt’s Background:
  From oncology pharmacy to science communication, Dr. Bhatt discusses her transition into history podcasting:

  “As much as I love science, I equally love history... Science, as you probably know, Dr. Engels, is dramatic, it’s exciting, it’s thrilling, just like anything else, like a Netflix series.”
  — Dr. Harini Bhatt (45:10)

• Historical Analysis with Modern Science:
  The team explores applying today’s scientific understanding to age-old mysteries, like Bathory’s case and the “Dancing Plague of 1518.”
• Critical Open-mindedness:
  Dr. Bhatt and Dr. Engels highlight the importance of keeping an open yet evidence-oriented mind when investigating historical accounts riddled with rumor and legend.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Arrogance and Power:

  “Having someone witness this, whether they’re part of her inner circle or not, reinforces her sense of dominance.”
  — Dr. Tristan Engels (23:50)

• On Desperation and Control:

  “She’s exhausted her initial victim selection pool... her sense of power allows her to believe that she can actually act on this and target elite children in the first place.”
  — Dr. Tristan Engels (34:55)

• On the Persistence of Rumor:

  “No matter how many young girls she tortured and killed, Elizabeth couldn’t outrun her political problems.”
  — Vanessa Richardson (17:51)

• On Truth vs. Legend:

  “Many people today believe that none of her alleged crimes actually occurred and that it was all made up by her political rivals.”
  — Vanessa Richardson (43:45)

• Expert Analysis of Historical Phenomena:

  “Mass psychogenic illness... typically involves the rapid spread of symptoms through a group, especially in high stress environments without a clear medical cause. The symptoms are very real and they’re driven by psychological and social factors.”
  — Dr. Tristan Engels (49:25)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Compartmentalization & Religion: 08:34–10:27
• Death of Ferencz & Escalated Violence: 10:27–13:45
• Violence as Emotional Regulation: 13:45–15:01
• Relocation and “Bloodbath” Rituals Begin: 15:01–20:53
• On the Ritual of Bathing in Blood: 21:51–26:10
• Switch from Peasant Girls to Nobility: 32:14–34:46
• Arrest and Testimony (300 witnesses): 38:53–41:10
• Reliability of Torture-Based Confessions: 40:11–42:25
• Legacy, Folklore, and Political Debate: 42:25–44:54
• Conversation with Dr. Bhatt on Hidden History: 44:54–53:16
• Bonus: Dancing Plague and Mass Psychogenic Illness: 48:28–52:59

---

Final Takeaways

This episode paints a nuanced portrait of Elizabeth Bathory as both a product and perpetrator of her brutal era—a woman whose psychology spiraled under isolation, whose violence became both ritual and coping mechanism, and whose legend continues to blur the lines between vicious reality and politically charged fiction. Through historical context and forensic insight, the podcast challenges both sensational myths and revisionist skepticism, leaving the “Blood Countess” forever trapped between truth and terror.

---

Transcript

[Vanessa Richardson]

Hi listeners, it's Vanessa. Before we get into today's episode, I want to tell you about another show I think you'll love. Hidden history with Dr. Harini Bhat. Every Monday, Dr. Bhat goes where history gets mysterious. Vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, paranormal phenomena and events that science still can't fully explain. Dr. Bot treats these moments like open case files. Not myths, not superstition, just incomplete explanations waiting for a closer look. Hidden History drops every Monday. Follow now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen, so you never miss a mystery. This is Crime House. Rumors play a role in all of our lives. We've all heard stories about a co worker or a friend of a friend. Usually these little bits of gossip are harmless. For most people, the stories fade, we forget about them and move on. But sometimes a rumor can be so monumental and so horrifying that it lives on for centuries. When Elizabeth Bathory went from noble daughter to feared countess, the rumors about her sent a chill through her medieval Hungarian town. Today, her haunting tale lives on. And we're left to wonder. Was the Blood Countess a ruthless killer? Or was someone out to get her? The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is serial killers and murderous minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

And I'm forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Ingalls. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Crime House is made possible by you. Please rate, review and follow serial killers and murderous minds to enhance your listening experience with ad free early access to each two part series and bonus content. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Podcasts and today, Vanessa and I are thrilled to welcome back Dr. Harini Bhatt, the host of Hidden History, the debut show from Pave's new history studio. Rewind.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

So happy to be back with you two.

[Vanessa Richardson]

So glad you're here and you're welcome to come on anytime. And just like last time, Dr. Bott will introduce today's episode. Then be sure to stick around at the end for an extended conversation between her and Dr. Engels about all things hidden history.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

Thanks, Vanessa. Before we get started, please be advised that this episode contains discussion of murder, torture and violence to women and children. So please listen with care. Today, Vanessa and Dr. Engels conclude their deep dive into the life of Countess Elizabeth Fathory, better known as the blood countess. In 16th and 17th century Hungary, Elizabeth had everything, land, power and riches. But she also hid a dark secret. Her thirst for blood left hundreds dead, making Elizabeth one of the most prolific serial killers ever. As Vanessa goes through the story, Dr. Engels will be talking about things like why people in power may kill out of desperation, how that desperation fuels new gruesome killing methods, and the impact of widespread rumors and gossip on murder investigations. And as always, they'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?

[Vanessa Richardson]

I've been cleaning out my closet and simplifying my wardrobe, just focusing on pieces that make everyday dressing feel simpler, not more complicated. That's really why Quince has been such an easy brand to keep coming back to. Everything has that clean, minimal look that makes it easy to put outfits together without overthinking it. The pieces are designed to be versatile, so they work across a lot of different outfits and situations, which makes building a reliable rotation feel pretty effortless. I've been leaning on their basics a lot because they just remove a lot of the guesswork from getting ready. What's also been consistent is how comfortable everything feels while it still looks polished. The fabrics are soft right away, but they don't lose their structure or feel worn out as the day goes on. I picked up a few items expecting them to just be simple staples, but they've ended up becoming some of the most reached for pieces I own. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.commurous for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.commurous for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commurous if you've tried to lose weight before, you know how frustrating it can be to feel like nothing really sticks. The cycle of starting over again and again can get exhausting. That's why Weight Loss by Hers is designed to offer a more sustainable approach with access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications, including the Wegovy Pill and the Wegovy Pen. With Wegovy through hers, you can lose up to 20% or more of your body weight when combined with diet and exercise. And it works by helping regulate your appetite so you can eat less and maintain progress over time. And for those looking for an alternative to injections, it's also available as the first GLP one in a pill. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.com cereal to get personalized, affordable care that gets you that's f o r h e r s.com s e r I a l forhers.com cereal Weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk. As to get started and learn more, including important safety information, wegovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit forhers.com by the early 1600s, Elizabeth Bathory was in her early 40s and married to Count Ferencz Nadojdi. On the outside, the couple seemed like all the other nobles in the kingdom of Hungary at the time. Forens often went off to war and Elizabeth presided over their land. In his absence, however, rumors abounded as to the mysterious and deadly truth of what was happening within the walls of Nadojdi Castle. Elizabeth Ferencz and a few trusted members of their household staff, a woman named Anna Darvulia, a young man named John, and three other women named Helena, Katarina and Dorothea were brutally tort and killing countless young girls. These young girls were members of the peasant class who had come to the castle to work with no idea they were marching straight toward their gruesome deaths. After Elizabeth summoned the local priest to remove some of the girls caskets, the priests became suspicious because Elizabeth wouldn't allow them to actually view the bodies as was custom. After that, the priests refused to perform burial rites, which put them in a standoff with Elizabeth, who likely knew that if she continued burying bodies in random places like she used to, then she could get caught. Elizabeth racked her brain for a way to get the clergy off her back. Unfortunately for her, they were quicker than she was. They'd set their sights on the one member of Elizabeth's court they despised most, Anna. Anna had taught Elizabeth everything she knew about torture and murder. And while the clergy didn't know that for a fact, that they suspected it. Because Anna was notorious for her dark magic prowess, By Easter of 1602, the priests were thinking of taking drastic action by excommunicating Anna. This was a huge punishment because it meant Anna had no chance of entering heaven. Despite how violent Elizabeth and Ferenc were, they were also deeply religious. And this was the last thing they wanted for their beloved partner in crime.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Someone holding strong religious beliefs while also engaging in extreme violence can seem contradictory, but it's also not a new concept. And there are a few ways to understand it. First, we have to consider the context. In their time, religion was part of daily life and identity and social structure. It wasn't necessarily a reflection of moral alignment. But there are also psychological explanations as well. And one is something we talked about in part one, which is compartmentalization and I know we do talk about this concept a lot on this podcast, but it is an extremely common psychological mechanism. Case in point, a person can maintain a religious identity in one area of their life while engaging in harmful behavior in another. A woman can be a mother in one aspect of her life and engage in harmful behavior toward children in another. How many cases have you also heard of or covered that involve someone of faith or even a member of the clergy? It's not something new. Another explanation is moral justification. That's framing behavior in a way that reduces internal conflict. They view their actions as necessary or deserved. And in Elizabeth's case, this applies because she targets girls she feels are beneath her. So her religious beliefs don't appear to be applied equally to everyone. Anna also plays a role in maintaining her system of violence. She taught Elizabeth a lot and she's central to how it is carried out and sustained in her household. So when the clergy targets Anna, it can create instability and threaten Elizabeth's entire structure. And that's where the tension, I think, was going to come in here. Because now an authority that Elizabeth actually recognizes is challenging. Something that she has relied on to maintain both control and consistency in her micro world.

[Vanessa Richardson]

It would take a lot to stop Elizabeth Forens and their accomplices from doing what they enjoyed most. Fortunately for them, Ferencz knew exactly how to solve their problem by donating a large sum of money to the church. After that, the priests dropped the issue completely. It's not clear whether Elizabeth ever tried to get them to remove more bodies from the castle, but it's possible she decided to keep a safe distance from the clergy from then on. Especially when she lost the only person who could keep her safe from them, Ferencz himself. About a year earlier, Ferencz had fallen gravely ill. His health was up and down for the next few years. At one point he was well enough to return to battle, and in doing so, he solidified his reputation as a celebrated war hero. But when he returned home in 1604, 48 year old Ferencz fell ill again. This time he was confined to his bed and on January 3rd of that year, he died. Elizabeth was devastated. She'd not only lost her husband, but she was now a widow, which was one of the most vulnerable positions for a land owning noblewoman. She was left to defend herself and her castle in the middle of a violent war.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

In episode one, we talked about Elizabeth's upbringing and how despite having power and resources, she relied heavily on everyone else to guide her from a young age. Everything was done for her, she was taught think how to act and how to exert control, but not necessarily how to think on her own or operate without that guidance. That pattern continued with friends. He wasn't just a partner, he was part of her structure. He reinforced her behavior, supported her authority, and played a role in how she was navigating decisions and stability. So when he's gone, she loses that anchor. And now she's expected to function independently by managing a castle, maintaining the power without him, him, and doing so in the middle of a war. But if she doesn't have the ability to do that confidently, she's going to fall back on what feels familiar and effective. And for Elizabeth, that's control. So rather than adapting in a new way, she's likely to double down on asserting dominance, using anger and violence as a way to manage the uncertainty and regain a sense of stability.

[Vanessa Richardson]

In the wake of Forensa's death, Elizabeth's bloodthirst seemed to spiral even more out of control and she turned to Anna for emotional support. Unsurprisingly, Anna encouraged Elizabeth to find peace, doing what she loved most, torturing her servants. And that's exactly what Elizabeth did. For the next few years, she went on an all out spree. She became more violent, not just in her everyday actions, but whenever she needed a pick me up. If Elizabeth caught one of her servants making even the smallest error, a poorly sewn gown or a crooked apron, she would stick them with pins and needles or even cut their flesh with knives. Once, when a servant girl dared to say she was thirsty, Elizabeth forced her to wade neck deep into frigid cold water, then poured water over her face as she stood there.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Elizabeth's behavior is quite erratic in the sense that she doesn't have a standard M.O. in her case, her behavior is tied to what it does for her. And based on what you've described, her violence is used as a regulation tool. When she's frustrated, when she's distressed, when she needs a release, she turns to violence. So the specific act may vary, especially in severity, but the purpose is consistent. These different methods are more reflective of escalation, experimentation, or possible habituation, which we discussed in episode one and the search for the same psychological effect. There may also be elements of displaced anger where relatively minor triggers like a mistake or a request provoke a much more extreme response. The reaction is displaced, proportionate to the situation, because it's tied to something bigger internally. This explains why she's not doing it in the same ritualized fashion that she was previously as well. Also, you do see parallels in more modern cases where serial offenders describe violence as relieving tension or providing a sense of control or stimulation. Violence serves a purpose for Elizabeth, and that's what keeps it going.

[Vanessa Richardson]

No one was safe from Elizabeth's fury, and that rage was the only thing distracting her from the loss of her husband. All Elizabeth wanted to do was make her servants suffer and watch the life drain from their eyes. At the same time, she was aware that villagers were still whispering about her and the clergy was still onto her. So in order to gain a little privacy, Elizabeth and her inner circle traveled to one of her other estates, which was located in Vienna. Once there, she kicked her killing spree up a notch. But she quickly realized that the sound of her victim's screams were so loud they could be heard by monks living across the street. Desperate to kill with impunity, Elizabeth relocated again. She went back to Hungary. But instead of returning to the Nadozhdi estate, she moved permanently into another estate, Castle Cheda. And this castle became the execution block for many unsuspecting and innocent victims. It's said that the majority of Elizabeth's tortures and murders occurred inside or around Castle Chaita. But even though nobody there was onto her yet, Elizabeth's position in society was in jeopardy. She was almost 50 years old, and without her war hero husband to protect their lands, her political rivals were circling. She had to find a way to protect what was hers. And soon she had an idea all it would take was a little blood.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's Name youe Price Tool for years. With the Name youe Price Tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget enough. Hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy. Or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit progressive.com and give the name your Price Tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.

[Ross Store Announcer]

Girl winter is so last season, and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs you're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Done.

[Ross Store Announcer]

Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.

[Vanessa Richardson]

In the early 1600s, Elizabeth Bathory was left widowed and unprotected from her family's political rivals. She moved into Castle Chata, where she set up a new torture chamber and a new revolving door of unsuspecting victims. But no matter how many young girls she tortured and killed, Elizabeth couldn't outrun her political problems. Beyond hoping for the king's protection, there wasn't much Elizabeth could do if another noble family decided they wanted to move against her. One option was to get married and find shelter that way. The only problem was she wasn't exactly a great marriage candidate. She was getting older, past childbearing age. As time passed, Elizabeth started to feel more desperate, like she had nothing to hold on to. And that caused her to unleash violence like never before. According to some rumors, if her servants didn't complete their needlework well enough, Elizabeth would send them to the torture chamber within the castle. There, Elizabeth and members of her inner circle would stick the girls with needles, burn them with fire irons, and leave them beaten and maimed. Sometimes they kept the girls alive for days in their battered states, only to watch them starve to death.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Now we're seeing a shift back towards something more structured, controlled, and intentional, which coincides with her moving around and finding a more private estate to do this in. She has the time and the privacy now. And keeping her victims alive after severely injuring them is prolonging the process, which allows her to maintain control over it. That serves multiple functions. One is the extension of her dominance. She's controlling how the harm happens. And two, she gains gratification from observing the suffering of others. And that may connect back to her childhood and that early exposure. She repeatedly witnessed suffering back then, especially because it was tied to power. That can create a learned association where the observation itself becomes meaningful or reinforcing to her. At the same time, this reflects desensitization and escalation, because prolonging the experience can intensify it for her. Her behav behavior is becoming so much more deliberate, more sustained, and so much more tied to control and reinforcement than it has in the past.

[Vanessa Richardson]

By 1607, it was estimated that her List of victims had already reached 200. And now that Elizabeth had moved to Castle Chada, she had plenty of new burial ground, including the local cemetery gardens, drainage ditches, grain bins, and fruit pits. It was the most alive she'd felt since her husband died. But there was still one problem. No amount of torture and murder could turn back time. Apparently, around this time, Elizabeth became obsessed with her appearance and was known to go into fits of rage where she would smash all the mirrors in the castle.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Well, unfortunately for Elizabeth, the one thing she cannot control, no matter how endless her resources are, is the natural process of aging. She's 50 years old, widowed, and vulnerable to political rivals. And because of her age and her inability to bear children, remarrying is unlikely. Like you mentioned, and she knows this. So her avenues for protection, for political stability and security of her estate are very limited right now. And I think this reaction reflects that. It's about control, status, and survival. Seeing herself aging likely represents a loss in all of those areas. And unlike people or her environment, it's something she can't dominate or reshape. For someone who relies so much on controlling everything, that's a very threatening limitation for her. And that explains this reaction. I don't think it's about vanity at all.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Soon, Elizabeth realized that what she loved most, torture and violence, could be the solution to her problem. Most likely, Anna was the one who gave Elizabeth the idea to bathe in the blood of virgins in order to preserve her own youth. For a long time, Elizabeth had already been using chicken blood to cast spells against her family's war enemies. Now, according to rumor, she started draining her victim's blood to keep herself young. By doing so, she earned the nickname the Blood Countess because apparently, even though Elizabeth had reached a new level of brutality, she also wasn't shy about what she was doing. According to one account, Elizabeth started attacking her servants in front of household staff members who weren't part of her inner circle. In one instance, a man named Benedict walked in while Elizabeth was berating a young girl for making a sewing mistake. Benedict had worked for Elizabeth back at Nadojdi Castle. Now he was in charge of security at Castle Chada. When he entered the room and saw what was happening, he knew that he wasn't supposed to be in there. The girl looked terrified. Not only that, but he recognized her and knew who her parents were. He had no desire to be present for whatever was about to happen. But before Benedict could leave the room, Elizabeth told him to stay. And he had no choice but to obey. Her. So Benedict watched as Elizabeth pulled out a dagger and proceeded to stab each one of the girl's fingers. And she kept going from there, stabbing her in the hands, arms, chest, and. And back. Soon, the girl was lying on the floor, barely conscious. And that's when Elizabeth held a lit candle to her hands and burned them until they were black. The girl's injuries were completely beyond repair, and eventually she died right before Benedict's eyes.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

There are a number of reasons why Elizabeth might have allowed Benedict to witness this horrific scene, and one is a belief in her own immunity to consequences. In that time period, there were far fewer constraints on someone like her. Power was concentrated, and intervention from authority figures like the King, for example, was rare, unless something became significant enough to demand the king's attention. So over time, she may have come to expect that she would not be challenged. And we talked about how her behavior has reduced the likelihood of anyone doing that to begin with. Another reason is that this has become so normal and so routine for her that she blurred her boundaries entirely. She may no longer actually feel she needs to hide anything that she's doing, especially after so many years without any consequences. She also could have become disinhibited, meaning she is now back into reactionary violence again, rather than contained in controlled violence. And that would mean that she's struggling to regulate and her rational thinking is narrowed. But there's also, again, that power component. Having someone witness this, whether they're part of her inner circle or not, reinforces her sense of dominance. It communicates to others what she's capable of, what her expectations are of them, and what they're required to tolerate if they're going to be in her household.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Do you think it's possible that she took some kind of twisted pride in her new reputation as the Blood Countess,

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

given that she is back to using violence in this less structured and more reactionary way, I think that it's more likely than not that she was desperate for this new ritual to work. As the Blood Countess, she's required to bathe in the blood of children. When you try and picture that, which I know is a really horrific thing to even want to picture to begin with, but that requires a large supply of blood, and she probably requires it frequently. And in that sense, it seems like this is really more out of desperation than pride, if anything, especially. Especially when you consider why she started this ritual in the first place and what's actually driving her desire to do this to begin with.

[Vanessa Richardson]

It's not clear whether Benedict actually witnessed Elizabeth drain the girl's blood. But he wasn't the only one who'd witnessed incidents like this, and many staff members had come to believe she was bathing in blood regularly. If that was true, it seemed like Elizabeth was happy with this ritual. But if her desire for beauty was at all motivated by a need to remarry, it didn't happen. And then, by 1609, Elizabeth stopped noticing the age reversing effects of her literal bloodbaths. She needed to find a new way to appear young and powerful. Soon she found a way, and it would involve her darkest deed yet.

[Prime Originals Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus Elle every year after the Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point and more slow burns, second chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.

[Plan B Announcer]

Plan B is a backup birth control option that's there for you when things

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

don't go according to plan.

[Plan B Announcer]

It specifically works after unprotected sex and before pregnancy occurs by temporarily delaying ovulation. Plan B is available nationwide at all major retailers and through delivery apps like DoorDash, no ID, prescription or age requirement. It's the number one OB GYN recommended brand of emergency contraception and it won't impact your future fertility. That's freedom to be use as directed.

[David Ridgeon]

Jacqueline Furlan Smith, a 40 year old former Canadian military trainer, moves to Costa Rica to follow her dreams, but in the summer of 2021 vanishes without a trouble.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

How can a woman just go missing and us put out all that effort

[Narrator]

to find her and she's still missing?

[David Ridgeon]

I'm David Ridgeon and this is Someone knows something, season 10 the Jacqueline Furlan Smith Case, available now on CBC, listen and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vanessa Richardson]

By 1609, 49 year old Countess Elizabeth Bathory had killed an estimated 200 of her own servants. Each victim was a young girl who belonged to Hungary's peasant class. For most of her life, Elisabeth killed and tortured these girls for sheer enjoyment. But over the last couple of years, she'd allegedly been doing it so she could drain their blood and bathe in it. According to Elizabeth's dark magic beliefs, this ritual would keep her young and Elizabeth was in desperate need of her youth because as an older widow, her country's rivals were coming after her. For a while she'd believed the bloodbaths were working, but recently it seemed like the effects were wearing off. Elizabeth needed A new solution to her beauty problem. Normally, she would have turned to her longtime friend and mentor. In all things dark and evil, Anna darvulia. But she couldn't do that, because that year, Anna suffered a serious stroke and died again.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Some of this builds on what we've already discussed. About Elizabeth's dependence on others. For structure and guidance. But here it becomes more cute. We've seen how Elizabeth reacted When she lost a functional anchor in her life when her husband died. She didn't necessarily adapt by becoming more independent. Instead, it seemed to destabilize her emotionally. But losing Anna is slightly different. Because she's tied directly to a belief system. That's rooted in her need for control. So Anna's death likely created more uncertainty about that ritual's effectiveness, Especially in the absence of the fact that she has no proof that it's been working, which we know it doesn't exist. There isn't. There's not going to be any proof of that. And that will increase urgency for Elizabeth. And emotionally, that may not present as grief, In a typical sense for her. And given her history, it's more likely that it's going to show up as agitation, frustration, or escalation. It's likely going to intensify her behavior. The more she realizes how little control she really has. And how there are very few in her circle. That are left to guide her. Or conversely, project the blame off. So she's likely going to try and seek guidance elsewhere if she can, if there's even an avenue for that. And she's likely going to become more reactionary. Just based on what we know about her past behavior. Because historical behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

[Vanessa Richardson]

So Elizabeth seems obsessed with control. And strokes are pretty sudden. How do you think that element of surprise May have affected her?

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

I think it's really going to amplify the flaws. In her dark, ritualistic belief system. That she's operating in. Because no matter what ritual she practices. That's going to reverse her halt aging in her mind, she cannot stop nature from taking its course. She can try to alter her external appearance in different ways. But internally, she has absolutely no control over that. Her body can fail at any moment. The same way it did for Anna, her mentor. And that's significant Because Anna was the one who guided her. And assured her in the first place. That she could control the aging process, that this ritual would do what it was intended to do. So her sudden death becomes a very real contradiction. To everything. That Elizabeth has been really relying on. And was led to believe from her. It exposes that belief system. And that's threatening because it means that Elizabeth is vulnerable and that some things are simply beyond her control. And Elizabeth is not someone who would be willing to accept that openly.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Elizabeth definitely must have felt like she was losing everything. In the wake of Anna's death, she seemingly spiraled into anger and panic. So you are absolutely right. She was more terrified of aging than ever before. And she needed guidance once again. According to the legend, Elizabeth turned to black magic. She started meeting with a forest witch who would perform spells for her. And it was this witch who gave the Countess a new idea. The blood of the peasantry wasn't going to be strong enough to work as an anti aging potion. What the Countess really needed was noble blood. So Elizabeth employed her four remaining confidants, John, Helena, Catarina and Dorothea, to start looking for girls from more well to do families. To do this, they had to search well beyond the town of Cheda. Part of this had to do with Elizabeth's growing reputation as a violent, bloodthirsty ruler. But it also didn't help that the population of young, available girls was drying up. Elizabeth had already killed so many of them. So the servants searched well beyond that town, going as far as Vienna to seek out aristocratic families who hadn't heard all the rumors about her. Once they found them, the group would sell the families on a lie. They'd tell parents that their girls or sisters would be sent to a finishing school where they would learn from one of the great noble women in Europe.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Elizabeth is once again defaulting to her status for credibility. Nobility carries assumed trust, so parents are more likely to believe her because of who she is, not because of what she's promising. And as we discussed in episode one, this arrangement is actually a very plausible one. Daughters of noble families were educated through governesses, or they were often sent to other aristocratic households to learn etiquette or language and social conduct. That's how Elizabeth was raised. So she understands the system the same way she did with the priests. And more importantly, she knows how to exploit it. That's what makes this so predatory. She's taking something familiar and she's weaponizing it. That is instrumental, calculated deception. She's leveraging her identity and her knowledge of social structures to gain access and reduce suspicion. And this is a very serious escalation because she's targeting families of higher status, which is very significant and a very risky shift because it suggests a deeper level of moral disengagement.

[Vanessa Richardson]

What can we glean from the fact that she's willing to try and trick people who, in her eyes, are just as smart and capable as she is and are on her level.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

I think it signals her overconfidence and again, a shift in risk tolerance. But more importantly, it goes back to that desperation that I was talking about. She's operating under pressure because she believes that this is necessary for her own survival. And she's exhausted her initial victim selection pool, and there are no available peasant girls any longer because of her, which is just truly horrible to imagine. But it's her sense of power that allows her to believe that she can actually act on this and target elite children in the first place and then actually get away with it. I don't think she's actually thinking beyond this.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Elizabeth was taking a huge risk by going after wealthier families. And the risk paid off. The idea was attractive enough for several families who happily sent their daughters and sisters to Countess Bathory's castle. Little did they know, they were really sending the girls to their graves. Between 1609 and 1610, Elizabeth ran this so called school as a new country kind of torture chamber out of Castle Chada. Girls were shackled together and beaten savagely, and Elizabeth barely tried to hide what was happening. Townspeople regularly saw the Countess in the company of young girls whose faces were bruised and disfigured. Things were even worse inside the school. One witness claimed to have seen girls strung up and hanging from the ceiling by their hair. Benedict, the head of security who'd watched Elizabeth stab and burn a girl to death, saw countless other incidents where girls had their mouths forced shut with needles or had their hands beaten to a pulp with a hammer. Bodies continued to pile up, and rumors spread far and wide. Other members of the castle staff, local gravediggers, and regular townspeople all knew that going to the school was a death sentence. But despite her decision to go after rich victims, the Countess wasn't worried about appearances. Her violence was becoming increasingly brazen. But there was just one problem with her new plan. Normally, the gossip about her behavior might not have been that big of a problem for Elizabeth. After all, she'd been torturing and killing girls for decades by this point. But this wasn't gossip anymore. Unlike peasant families, the parents of these rich girls were able to do something if their loved ones went missing. And some of them traveled to Chada to try and figure out what was going on. When they came to the castle demanding to see their children, Elizabeth sent the girls out in hopes that this would calm their concerns. But it did the opposite. The girls would emerge from the school visibly weak and battered, barely able to stand up or speak. The parents were horrified and demanded that something be done to stop this evil, sadistic countess. These complaints traveled up the chain of local government, and eventually they reached the King of Hungary himself. When the king heard about noble girls being tortured and killed, he declared that Elizabeth Bathory had to be convicted at once. And so, on December 29, 1610, George Torzo, the Viceroy of Hungary, stormed into Elizabeth Bathory's home. He and his men detained her and the four accomplices who'd been helping her carry out the killings. The accomplices were themselves tortured and ultimately confessed to their crimes. Times and during the court investigation that followed, over 300 people, including the accomplices, other staff members, and even some townspeople, testified about the horrific things they'd seen. Based on these testimonies, the court believed Elizabeth was responsible for at least 80 deaths, but they also thought that number could be as high as 600.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

It's unfortunate that it took the targeting of noble families for any authority to intervene, but at least at long last, Elizabeth is being held accountable. And for someone who has never had to answer to anyone until this point, and who has conditioned all of those in her orbit not to question or challenge her, was also taught that violence is a normal way of maintaining control. This moment is going to produce several different reactions out of her, and the first is likely going to be shock and disbelief. The protection that she's relied on through her birthright and her belief system is no longer holding up for her, and that's going to lead to defensiveness or denial, especially if her identity is being threatened. So for decades, she's been the ultimate authority in her household and in her system, and now she's being detained, questioned and accused by someone with greater authority and in a way that she can't control. And importantly, it's happening in front of other that's exposure and that's threatening. The same environment that she once controlled is now witnessing her loss of power in real time, and they're even turning against her. In this moment, Elizabeth is losing all control that she thought she had.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Nowadays, is torture considered a valid interrogation strategy, or do you think it's more likely that people will say anything to stop their suffering? We know that Elizabeth's story is highly debated. I mean, it's been so long. So do you think it's possible her four accomplices provided false confessions?

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Firstly, torture is not at all considered a valid or reliable interrogation strategy. Research has been very clear about this. The concern about torture is exactly what you raised. Humans are wired for survival. When someone is in extreme pain or distress, their primary goal becomes ending the suffering, ending that pain. Pain, not necessarily telling the truth. People are going to say whatever it is to end the suffering. And that can increase the risk of false or distorted confessions. And that makes any information that is obtained under those conditions not reliable. So most interrogations now involve building rapport first because those conditions produce more reliable confessions. That said, because of what research tells us, her accomplices could have also provided false confessions. That doesn't mean mean everything they said was false, but it does mean we can't assume that their confessions were fully accurate or voluntary either. What does matter, though, is how that information is evaluated. When you look at their statements alongside other data, like the physical injuries that were observed on the victims, their own personal accounts, the victims specifically reports of the missing girls, Elizabeth's pattern of behavior over the years and the concerns from the victims, families trying to reach their children, you see areas of overlap. And to me, that's where it becomes more informative. As a forensic psychologist, collateral information is never treated as fact on its own. It's treated as data, something to be weighed and compared against all these other sources of information. And in those cases, when the statement or the self report aligns with other evidence that we have other documents, it can contribute to a more supported understanding of the full clinical picture. So we look at, at the like, we try to weigh everything out in one.

[Vanessa Richardson]

According to Elizabeth, none of it was true. In fact, she had a much different story to explain all the deaths. Elizabeth claimed that one of her students had killed all the others in order to steal their jewelry and then took her own life when the staff members learned what she'd done. Unfortunately for Elizabeth, no one bought it. She and her accomplices were ultimately charged with the murder. Murder of 80 victims. Her accomplices were tortured for their crimes, and in the end, they were sentenced to execution. But the same couldn't be said for Countess Bathory. Elizabeth didn't receive any prison time. Instead, she was basically put under house arrest, destined to live out the remainder of her life at Chada Castle, which she did peacefully until she fell ill and died. Died in 1614 at the age of 54. After Elizabeth died, she was reportedly buried in the castle's church, which the local villagers were not happy about. There was such an uproar over it. Elizabeth's remains were supposedly moved to her hometown. But Elizabeth Bathory's story didn't end with her death. Today, there are countless ghost stories about the Blood Countess, from her apparition appearance, hearing in the castle ruins, to people hearing the horrible screams of her victims, to supposed curses and even a rumor of a vampire. But the legends surrounding Elizabeth aren't just related to the supernatural. Many people today believe that none of her alleged crimes actually occurred and that it was all made up by her political rivals. According to some, Elizabeth's finishing school was exactly that. She provided young girls an education who otherwise wouldn't have had access to one. Whatever the truth is, one thing's for certain. Elizabeth Bathory's reign struck terror into the hearts of those who crossed her. And in the end, her tale continues to haunt and mystify us. Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer. But first, check out this extended conversation between Dr. Engels and Dr. Harini Bhatt. And be sure to stick around after for a special preview of hidden history.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Dr. Bhatt, I'm so excited for you to join us. Like I said at the beginning of episode, we can always use more doctors here at Pave Studios. And before we dive into Hidden History, I would love to talk to you about your background some more and the approach that you're taking to this show.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

I've been so happy to speak with both of you. And yeah, let's talk a little bit about my background. So I have my doctorate in pharmacy and I did a further specialization fellowship in oncology hematology. So this was not my career that I ever thought I was going to do. This is a second life in many ways. When Covid started, I started posting science videos and as the story goes, the rest is history. Pun intended. But I've always loved as much as I love science, I equally love history. And honestly, I think a lot of people think science is boring and rigid because there is no context and the context is really the history or the story behind the science. Otherwise it's just a list of facts. So that's really what I decided to do with my other channel today. I learned science where I really talk about science, but the history and the story behind it. Because science, as you probably know, Dr. Engels, is dramatic, it's exciting, it's thrilling, just like anything else, like a Netflix series. So I really want to make sure that science is as interesting, but there's always like that history behind it. So that's why I'm doing Hidden History. It is diving deep into those stories that I can't really do in short form and really Going into all the theories, all the unrelated, unexplained, all the unanswered questions with that science through line throughout.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

And we're diving back into history with a scientific lens that we have now, knowing what we have now that didn't apply back then. It's so interesting, especially with this case. Right. This is. We're talking about 1500s in Hungary. There's a lot of things that they didn't know about back then that when you're looking at it from a lens now, that we can apply. And when there's a lot of supernatural or paranormal aspects to that, do you use that to kind of challenge things, some conspiracies maybe, or bring a little bit more of reality testing to some of those theories that people have brought forward. Is that what you bring to your podcast?

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

Absolutely. And I think that's what makes it so fun, is we don't want to, you know, disregard the myths, like, say, like the Loch Ness Monster, for example. I think that's part of the fun is the mythology. But what makes it more enriching is viewing it from a 2026 lens and saying like, hey, hey. Yes, there might be this myth or these theories about a Loch Ness monster, but actually the reason why they think there's a Loch Ness monster is a lot of the science behind that lake. And that, to me, is even more fascinating.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Absolutely. I think the same applies for me, too, when we look at historical cases from so long ago where there's a lot of socioeconomic things that apply or sociological or psychological aspects that apply that were not widely understood back then that we can look at from a lens now. That is a very clinically fascinating thing for me to apply in today's world to cases that we, you know, existed way back then. And I really love doing that in cases like Elizabeth Bathory's case, for example. I love that about your podcast. Now let's talk about hidden history a bit more. Speaking of your podcast, what really stands out to me is how you do that, how you approach history with that scientific touch and looking at evidence with such an open mind and every. And following every path in until you can make a determination like that.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

Yeah. And that's something that was really surprising to me, especially when you're dealing with historical mysteries like I do on my show. It's important to keep an open mind, especially when you encounter a scientific explanation. It's so important to really look at it with a critical eye. Speaking of, I'd actually love to get your thoughts on this, because in our Very first episode, we deal with potential mass hysteria or mass psychogenic illness. Now, some spoilers ahead, but here's the background and again, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. So it's all about the dancing plague of 1518. That year in the European city of Strasbourg, a woman stepped out of her house, started dancing and couldn't stop. Before long, people all over the city had joined her, and some of them, the only thing that could stop them was death. After a month or two of this going on, it finally stopped after the city conducted a ceremony in the name of Saint Vitus. From what you know about MPIs, does that sound like it would fit the bill?

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Bill Ooh, this is really fascinating. I have actually never heard of this case before, which is why I love your podcast so much, because this is just like we talked about. We get to apply a modern day lens to a very historical case. And I'm so glad we're talking about this. So let's walk through it. Mass psychogenic illness, or mpi, typically involves the rapid spread of symptoms through a group, especially in high stress environments without any clear medical cause. The symptoms are very real and they're driven by psychological and social factors, but. But not medical ones, not like a toxin or a disease. And by the sound of it, a lot of those elements certainly line up. You described a sudden onset by this woman that spread throughout the community, and then a shared behavior that escalated as more people joined in. The environment is very important to consider too. In that era, people struggled with famine and disease, and that is definitely a high stress environment where MPI is more likely to occur than normal. Not. But you said this lasted what, about a month or two? Most cases of MPI that we've studied don't typically involve something that's that prolonged or that severe. Statistically, they last a matter of hours to days and in very rare instances or very rare cases, a few weeks, especially if it's socially reinforced, which this actually seems to be the case. Typical symptoms though of MPI are dizziness, fainting, shaking and nausea, not dancing and not to the point of collapse or death. That is very atypical from what we know about mpi. So that also doesn't quite fit. So that makes me think, was there some kind of toxin or disease that might have caused this? Because those were widespread back then. But what known diseases or toxins whose only symptom is uncontrolled dandruff? Do you know of any? I mean, to my knowledge, I don't. I'm not A medical doctor. But do you?

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

Yeah, I mean this, we go into this in the episode, but one of them, one of the theories is ergot poisoning from.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Oh, that's fungal, isn't it?

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

But I think that's really interesting, like giving more context to the MPIs. I didn't think about the environmental factor. They were probably under a lot of stress. So it. I wonder if it's a combination of factors. It could be.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

MPI explains. And this is why the open mind part you were talking about is so important. Because this was very real and we don't want take that away. Right. It happened. It was very real for the people involved. And that's why that open mind and that critical mind are very important to hold together. Because all that to say MPI explains how this behavior could have spread, but it doesn't necessarily explain why it started or why it was so extreme and why it was so long. And because of that, it makes me think that in addition, there might have been something cultural that was driving this. Like I don't know if it was maybe a religious or a spiritual belief. It feels reminiscent to something called social contagion where one person's behavior or symptoms appear and then others begin to exhibit similar ones because their mind and body are responding to that shared social context. And that's especially true in close knit communities and especially if they're under stress like it was back then and then and then. Especially if there's shared cultural belief and cultural belief systems. And that reminds me of something like the Salem witch trials. All that to say, I think it partially explains it, but I don't think it's a full picture and I think it's more than likely a combination of things.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

So fascinating. Thank you for that insight. I'd love to have you on the show sometimes.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

I would love to be on this show. It sounds so fun. Just say the word. And Dr. Bhatt, thanks again so much for joining Vanessa and me. For anyone who hasn't checked out hidden history yet, can you tell them where to find it?

[Narrator]

Of course.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

You can check out new episodes every Monday on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and on YouTube at HiddenHistoryPod. Follow and subscribe so you don't miss a moment.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Amazing. I'm already such a huge fan and looking forward to many more amazing conversations. And thanks to all of you for listening. Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support if you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media rimehouse and don't forget to rate, review and follow Serial Killers and Murderous Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly does make a difference and to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Serial Killers and Murderous Minds ad free along with early access to each thrilling two part series and exciting bonus content.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels and is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios, this episode was brought to life by the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds team Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertzofsky, Alyssa Fox, Sarah Batchelor, and Carrie Murphy.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls]

Thank you for listening and stick around. We've got a sneak peek of hidden history just for you.

[Narrator]

When it comes to mass psychogenic illness, there's not much you can do to protect yourself, your mind and body. Weaponize your own belief against you, blurring the lines line between fiction and reality until a perceived threat is made very real. And once it has you in its grip, there's no letting go. Before we get out of here, I want to introduce you guys to a segment we'll be doing at the end of each episode called if It Happened Today. As the name suggests, I'll be looking at the event in question and asking what would it be like if it happened right now? So let's imagine that on a summer day in 2020, 26, a young woman steps out of her downtown apartment and just starts dancing. Your first thought would probably be this girl's on something and you wouldn't be alone. It's actually been pointed out that the Dancing Plague has a lot of similarities to modern rave culture. The Dancing Plague has even been called the world's longest rave. And think about it. People at raves go long stretches without falling food, water or rest while they dance. Their movements aren't graceful or coordinated. Of course, there are plenty of ravers out there who aren't on drugs, and soon enough people would realize this girl in the street isn't on them either. So maybe you'd think as more people join in, is this a flash mob? Some sort of protest? Maybe an event put on by an online streamer? I'm sure it would come off as all fun and games with bystanders live streaming to tickets, TikTok, and every social media app until the dancers start collapsing. Doctors would take some of the dancers in for testing just to find that nothing is physically wrong with them and all of a sudden it would be all over the Internet. Endless Reddit theories, blog posts and speculation. Maybe some fringe religious groups would take it as a sign that the apocalypse is here. One thing's for sure, there would be plenty of opinions on it. But eventually, with what we know about mass psychogenic chronic illness now, someone would realize the truth. The question is, would anyone believe them? If we're actually thinking about it with a modern lens, like if that happened today, I think the best analogy is Havana Syndrome. If the dancing plague happened in 2026, I'm pretty sure scientists would label it as mass psychogenic illness. In other words, mass hysteria. In our current landscape, it's easy to go online and find a viewpoint that supports your thinking. It can be a good way to seek out a community of like minded people or fall into a dangerous echo chamber. Back in 1518, the ceremony at the shrine of St. Vitus helped the dancers feel like something was helping them, that they had found the solution to their curse. They united around a common cause and found a way through. But could that happen today in 2026? You tell me. Would we be able to harness the that fear that started our dancing plague and worked together to end it? Or maybe we succumb to it one by one, until the whole world is one big deadly party. Thanks for listening to this preview of my new show, Hidden History.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

If you want to hear what happens

[Narrator]

next, follow Hidden History on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or subscribe on YouTube.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

I'm Katie Ring, host of America's Most Infamous Crimes. Each week I take on one of

[Vanessa Richardson]

the the most notorious criminal cases in American history.

[Dr. Harini Bhatt]

Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Available now wherever you get your podcasts. Looking for your next listen? Check out hidden history with Dr. Harini Bot. Every Monday, Dr. Bot goes where history gets mysterious vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, and events that science still can't fully explain. Follow Hidden History now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.