Dr. Tristan Ingalls (5:13)

Crimes that appear random or motiveless usually aren't truly without motive. They're just driven by internal dynamics that are hidden, unconscious or irrational. By conventional standards, many crimes that appear random actually stem from from those internalized emotions or distorted thinking or even unmet psychological needs like rage, shame, humiliation, or a need for power. All of those could drive the person. In some cases, there may be psychosis or delusional thinking. They could be experiencing what we call command hallucinations, in which a voice is essentially commanding them to commit the act. They may be experiencing paranoid delusions, believing someone's a threat, when in fact they are not. No motive doesn't mean no reason. It often means the reason is deeply internal. And it could be disordered, impulsive, or hidden from the offender themselves. Even so, whatever the reason, these crimes require careful psychological analysis to understand the why, even when the who and the how are clear.

Vanessa Richardson (6:13)

When a serial killer commits their first murder, is there a sense of motive already? Or do they start killing by instinct and then go after certain types of people in the same way later?

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (6:24)

Great question, and one that's central to understanding how serial offenders evolve. In short, yes, there's almost always a motive behind their first murder. The motive can be emotional, sexual, psychological or symbolic. For example, for most serial killers, the first murder is a threshold moment. It's the point where fantasy crosses into reality. Because before that, there's often years of fantasizing. And this first kill is that attempt to actualize that fantasy. So over time, that motive becomes ritualized and more targeted, leading to recognizable patterns in victim selection or method. Even staging in some cases. And the transformation from first time killer to serial offender is usually fueled by internal reinforcement loops, addiction of some kind, especially to fantasy, and deep psychological disturbance, not necessarily randomness or pure instinct.

Vanessa Richardson (7:18)

Even though the authorities couldn't decipher a motive at first, they did have some promising leads. Next to Betty and David's bodies were the shells from a.22 caliber Winchester rifle. And multiple witnesses in the area saw a white Chevy Impala lurking around the scene. Unfortunately, none of that information led to a suspect. Investigators couldn't link the shells to a specific gun, and they weren't able to track down that specific Impala. Then every potential suspect they did talk to had a viable alibi. Weeks went by and then months without any developments. But seven months later, in July 1969, they got a tragic new lead. Late on the 4th of July 1969, a 22 year old wife and mother named Darlene Farren went out to buy fireworks. Or at least that's what she told the babysitter. In reality, she was picking up the young man she was having an affair with. 19 year old Mike Mageau. After Mike got in her car, Darlene drove them to Blue Rock Springs park and golf course. It was just a couple of miles from Lake Herman Road where David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen had been killed that past December. Looking for some privacy, Darlene pulled into a parking spot a few minutes before midnight and turned off the engine. But just as she and Mike began enjoying each other's company, another car pulled into the lot about six feet away. The car idled as if the driver was waiting for something. Mike started to get nervous, but Darlene assured him it was probably nothing to worry about. Then around 12:15, the car moved spots and pulled up right next to Darlene's vehicle. The driver left the headlights on as he got out and walked to the passenger side window of Darlene's brown car. Darlene and Mike thought it must be a police officer, so Mike rolled down his window as the pair frantically searched for their IDs. While they were distracted, the mysterious driver pulled out a 9 millimeter Luger and started shooting into the car. Mike was hit, though. He was able to scramble into the back seat, but Darlene wasn't fast enough. The gunman fired his weapon a few more times before retreating back to his car and speeding away. Once the attacker was gone, Mike managed to open one of the back doors. He crawled out of the vehicle, collapsed onto the pavement, and desperately waved for help. Moments later, a group of teenagers found him gasping for breath in the parking lot. They spotted Darlene soon after and immediately called an ambulance. Unfortunately, the EMTs weren't able to save Darlene, but Mike survived the assault and was sent to the hospital to recover.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (10:11)

So now we're seeing a pattern and some consistency emerging. Firstly, these are not random locations. They were deliberately chosen because they're secluded areas that couples go to for privacy. And this suggests preparation and intent. It gave the killer full control of the situation, both environmentally with a limited risk of interruption, as well as emotionally. The killer is targeting couples in their cars and using a firearm. So the method is also consistent. And based on what we know, this could suggest that the killer's driven by fantasy, resentment and a need for psychological control. Though he might not personally know the victims, they do represent those deeper emotional wounds I mentioned before, such as alienation, rejection and rage toward intimacy, or certain ideals and expectations.

Vanessa Richardson (10:58)

Would this tell us that the killer found the young victims to be particularly vulnerable?

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (11:03)

Yeah, definitely. We know that serial killers choose their victims based on vulnerability, availability and desirability. They were vulnerable because they were distracted, isolated, and there was no one around to help. They were available because they happened to be there when he was hunting. And they're desirable for the reasons I already outlined. They were symbolic of something deeper.

Vanessa Richardson (11:25)

Before the authorities could even start looking for Darlene's killer, a phone call came into the Vallejo Police Department. Speaking in a monotone, almost sinister voice, the caller said, quote, I want to report a murder. If you will go one mile east on Columbus Parkway, you will find kids in a brown car. They were shot with a 9 millimeter Luger. I also killed those kids last year. Goodbye. As soon as the call ended, a police dispatcher traced it to a gas station just a mile away from the Vallejo pd.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (12:01)

When a killer begins to initiate contact with law enforcement, particularly when they're not under immediate threat of being caught, it's rarely just about control of the case. It's about about control of the narrative and the validation of identity. The Zodiac is stepping into kind of like a role of puppeteer. During the commission of the crime, he's in control after the crime, he loses that. So contacting the police creates that secondary thrill. He is now watching trained professionals scramble, theorize and chase shadows, all while knowing he's still out there. And watching. Some killers, especially those with narcissistic traits, want credit for their crimes. We will get more into this behavior as you take us through the story. Essentially, the Zodiac wanted to be seen. He craved recognition. He craved power and psychological control, not just of his victims, but of law enforcement, too. Now he can have control after the fact. It's like the killing itself was the opening act, and the games he played after were his real performance.

Vanessa Richardson (13:03)

Well, unfortunately, the phone call didn't yield any further clues. And there wasn't any incriminating evidence at the crime scene either. Which meant the investigators only hope was that the surviving victim, Mike Mageau. Joe, had caught something important. Thankfully, Mike had gotten a good look at the gunman. He was beefy, with a round face and curly hair. He was around 5, 8, and maybe 26 to 30 years old.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (13:29)

This is the typical age range when serial killers become active.

Vanessa Richardson (13:33)

Police had a sketch artist draw up an image based on Mike's description, and they started to look for someone who was a match. But again, everyone they spoke to had an alibi. This case, like the Lake Herman Road incident, was at a standstill. And even though the killer had made a passing reference to the first murders in his phone call, the authorities didn't necessarily agree they were connected. But on July 31, 1969, three newspapers each received a letter that flipped those cases on their heads. It turned out the killer's game was just beginning. And it was more terrifying than anyone could imagine. In the late 1960s, the quiet community of Vallejo, California, was rocked by two violent attacks that left three young people dead. And even though the authorities weren't having any luck identifying the culprit, there was still hope that they could catch him. Because on July 31, 1969, several Bay Area newspapers received letters in written by the killer himself. Reporters at the Vallejo Times Herald, the San Francisco examiner and the San Francisco Chronicle all received the same versions of the same handwritten note. The writer claimed he'd killed David Faraday, Betty Lou Jensen, and Darlene Farren. To prove it, he offered up tidbits of information that only the killer and the police would know, like the type of ammo used and specific details about the victims. But he didn't write to the papers just to brag. He was giving them the chance to catch him. Along with the letters, the killer sent a 408 character cipher puzzle. One that, when solved, would contain information about his identity. And he didn't just want the journalists to crack them. He demanded the ciphers be printed on the front pages the next day, August 1st. By that Friday for the public to see, too. If they didn't follow his instructions, he promised he'd go on a killing spree, claiming dozens of lives, starting that night. Finally, as a signature, the killer left a circle with a cross through it, almost like the crosshairs of a rifle.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (15:59)

So let's talk about the letter. This letter wasn't just a confession or a warning. It was a declaration of identity. He wasn't afraid of exposure. If anything, he's daring authorities to find him, knowing he'd had the upper hand. Hand. And psychologically. This was the moment he cemented himself as more than a murderer. He became a narrator, a manipulator, even, like an anti hero in his own story. Thus that signature at the end. Now, let's unpack the cipher puzzle. By sending that, it indicates that he wants authorities to feel he's cognitively superior than them. And he knows so many things that they do not know, which makes him stand out as unique. And he wants to distance himself from ordinary killers in this way. He's not just confessing in the letter either. He's forcing people to work for him, which allows him to manipulate the flow of information and again, control the narrative. The Zodiac sent this cipher not just to confuse or taunt, but to cement that psychological control, validate his ego, and brand himself as a uniquely powerful person.

Vanessa Richardson (17:04)

What do you make of the escalation here?

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (17:07)

In my opinion, this escalation is one of the more fascinating psychological arcs that I've ever known. At first, you've got this mysterious phone call. He claims credit for a double shooting. He calmly gives the details that only the killer would know, and then he just hangs up. It's cold and it's controlled. And I believe that moment was about testing the waters, not just with law enforcement, but psychologically. I think at first, he wanted to feel out how it would feel to be powerful anonymously. Because he wants to maintain that control even after he kills. Like I talked about before, and since he was a mile from the police department when he called them, it makes me think that he had a vantage point in the distance to watch them scramble without being noticed in some way. And that gave him this thrill watching that reaction and the response. And that, I think, played into the evolution from that phone call to these detailed letters. And with Ciphers, and now this symbolic signature. From a forensic psychology lens, he needed to feel important, powerful. He was constructing an identity through these communications. And here's the thing. When killers like this don't get the reaction that they want, they either escalate or they unravel. And I think that's why he made those demands, because he so desperate to be in control, I think he fears the unraveling. So in a sense, the Zodiac wasn't just trying to terrify people. He was trying to own the narrative and control every aspect.

Vanessa Richardson (18:37)

Even with the threat of a killing spree hanging over their heads, the papers weren't sure if they should publish the letters. On one hand, it wouldn't look good to give into a murderer's demands, but on the other, they didn't want blood on their hands if they didn't comply. Ultimately, the editor at the Vallejo Times Herald decided to publish the materials on Friday, August 1. The other papers followed suit over the next two days, which seemed to satisfy the killer for the moment. With the killer's cipher made public, the FBI, Naval intelligence and amateur code breakers alike jumped at the chance to solve it. That included Donald and Betty Hardin, a married couple in Salinas, California. The Hardens were beginners at best, but Donald loved puzzles, and Betty had a keen mind. Since it seemed they were dealing with an egotistical murderer, she theorized that the cipher would contain multiple instances of the words I and kill. Using Betty's theory, the couple solved the cipher within days. The message began with a reference to a short story and movie called the Most Dangerous Game. It said, quote, I like killing people because it is so much fun. It is more fun than killing wild game in the forest, because man is the most dangerous animal of all. The message went on to say the killer believed his victims would be his slaves in the afterlife. It was a chilling glimpse into the killer's mindset and motivations. However, one crucial piece was missing. His name. And the cipher didn't offer up any other tangible leads either. But on August 4, 1969, the killer sent another letter, and this time, he introduced himself. It began with the words, this is the Zodiac speaking. Like the first letter, the killer revealed certain elements that only he or the police would know. For instance, he described how he'd carried out the attack on the fourth of July in very specific detail. And he taunted the authorities, asking if they were having fun with his cipher.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (20:50)

So that, quote, gives us a glimpse into how the Zodiac saw himself and his victims. Starting with him. He saw himself as a Predator and everyone else as prey. That kind of thinking is very classic predatory psychopathology. It's intended to dehumanize the victim, remove empathy, and turn murder into a game of power and intellect. In this case. Now let's explore how he viewed his victims. They were not people. They were objects or pawns. He also said he was killing to collect slaves for the afterlife. At first glance, that might sound delusional, but in the context of the zodiac, it's likely not a literal belief, but a way to elevate his crimes into something more cosmic. In his own distorted framework, he wasn't just a murderer. In his mind, he was a godlike figure determining who lives and who dies and what happens to them after death. Talk about grandiose. So when you put these two statements together, Hunting humans for sport, collecting souls, what you're seeing is a killer who wasn't just seeking control over life. He wanted control over meaning, over identity, over the afterlife. He wanted to craft, like, a mythology around himself that would make him unforgettable or eternal. It's the kind of psychological profile you often see in sadistic, narcissistic offenders who aren't content to kill quietly. They need to be seen and they need to be felt. And now he's actually branded himself, and that tells us he wants his name and his symbol to be known and even maybe outlive him.

Vanessa Richardson (22:21)

Well, now, the zodiac had definitely gotten people's attention. After seeing the second letter, Don Hardin called the San Francisco Chronicle to tell them he'd broken the cipher, and they believed him. But without any identifying information, the authorities weren't any closer to catching the Zodiac. And it wasn't long before he struck again. About seven weeks later, on September 27, 1969, two close friends, 20 year old Brian Hartnell and 22 year old Cecilia shepherd, were spending the day together. Cecilia was getting ready to leave the Bay Area to study music at the University of California, Riverside, while Brian was staying behind to study law at Pacific Union College in Napa, California. Before Cecilia left, they decided to spend a final afternoon together. So on the afternoon of the 27th, they packed a picnic and headed through a maze of windy roads to Lake Berryessa in Napa County. They picked a secluded spot and rolled out their blankets. As the early evening gave way into night, Cecilia became startled. She told Brian a man was coming toward them, but by the time he turned to look, the man had disappeared behind some trees. A few moments later, the stranger reappeared, seemingly out of nowhere. And now he was right in front of Them. He had a dark executioner style hood drawn over his face, and it had the Zodiac's symbol on the front. Before the couple could run, the Zodiac brandished his weapon at them. He told Brian and Cecilia that he was on the run after killing a security guard in Deer Lodge, Montana, and needed to to borrow Brian's car to get to Mexico. He promised if they cooperated, he wouldn't hurt them. That was a lie. As soon as the Zodiac had Brian and Cecilia tied up, he holstered his gun, then pulled out a long knife and stabbed them both repeatedly.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (24:24)

We're seeing a different kind of behavior than in his earlier crimes. And from a psychological standpoint, it tells us a lot. Showing up in a costume like this was not for disguise because he's quite literally advertising himself with the symbol on the front. This was part of a performance. He was becoming the character that he had been creating, and he wanted to be seen as such. And knowing that his victims may recognize his symbol because it's been published now in the paper, he knows that they'll understand who he is, and that makes it all the more thrilling for him. Now, the decision to use a knife instead of a gun is also incredibly telling and important. Shooting someone is quick. It's detached. But using a knife is more personal. It's slower, and it requires them to be face to face. It requires you to watch that fear build up in real time. And for someone like the Zodiac, who's clearly escalating, that would have delivered a much more intense psychological thrill than using a firearm. It's a shift from killing for control to killing for sensation. And remember, before he stabbed them, he tied them up and he spoke to them. He lingered. And that's just, again, an element of him wanting control. He wanted the control over their fear. It was emotional manipulation. The knife just extended that even more. So what does that say about his mindset? Well, it tells us that by this point, the Zodiac wasn't just committing crimes. He was living out that fantasy. That hood, executioner style with the symbol, the theatrics. It all pointed to someone who saw himself not just as a criminal, but like a myth in the making, almost. It's very deranged.

Vanessa Richardson (26:06)

Well, like his previous attacks, the Zodiac didn't stick around to see what happened to his victims. And unbeknownst to him, they didn't immediately succumb to their wounds once he was gone. Cecilia, who was barely conscious, managed to free a hand to untie Brian. Badly injured but still mobile, Brian ran in search of help and flagged down a park ranger. Unfortunately, Cecilia died in the hospital two days after the attack. But Brian made a full recovery and was able to give the police a description of their attacker. He was about 5 foot 10 and overweight, but not obese. Brian didn't think the man was much older than 25. Later, police would realize this description was very similar to the attacker from the fourth of July. And the Zodiac didn't wait long before he called the Napa Police Department. This time he said, quote, I want to report a murder. No, a double murder. They're two miles north of park headquarters. They were in a white Volkswagen Carmen Ghia, and I'm the one who did it again. The dispatcher traced the call. It had been placed from a payphone by a car wash in Napa. Within minutes, police swarmed the area. But they didn't get there fast enough. All they found was the phone dangling from the receiver. But the Zodiac had left other clues behind. Back at the crime scene, investigators found a handwritten note scrawled in black ink attached to Brian's car. The Zodiac's signature symbol was at the top. Beneath that, there were three dates. The first two read Vallejo, 1220, 1968, and 7 4, 1969. Those were the Zodiac's first two attacks. And the third was for the current day. September 27, 1969, 6:30pm with the words By Knife written right next to it. If there was any question as to who Brian and Cecilia's attacker was, that note put those doubts to bed. The Zodiac killer had struck again, and still nobody knew how to find him.

Narrator (28:29)

What if you befriended the son of a billionaire and he wanted to help you get rich?

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (28:34)

By this time next year, you should be a millionaire.

Narrator (28:36)

His house was stunning, the model on his arm, even more so when you.

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See him with this younger, attractive girl. It sort of helps sell the Yes, I do have a lot of money.

Narrator (28:45)

So you give him cash to start a business and wake up in a nightmare?

Vanessa Richardson (28:49)

You just scammed your own family. He's a ghost. He's a ghost.

Narrator (28:54)

Because this guy doesn't stay anywhere too long.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (28:56)

Ken Yanai Wen Long Chu Kai Bent.

Narrator (29:00)

Young and has a ton of aliases.

Vanessa Richardson (29:02)

Yanal Kendrick, Kazumi Yanai.

Ad Sponsor (29:06)

I was so angry. I wanted to get this guy.

Narrator (29:08)

So maybe you decide to do something about it.

Vanessa Richardson (29:10)

He gets thrown to the ground. He keeps yelling out, what did I do? What did I do?

Narrator (29:16)

Well, Ken, I'll tell you exactly what you did. From Sony Music Entertainment and Campside Media, this is Catch Me if youf Can Available now on the binge Search for Catch Me if youf Can. Wherever you get your podcasts to start listening today.

Vanessa Richardson (29:33)

By September of 1969, the Zodiac Killer had attacked three young couples in Northern California. Of the six victims, four were dead and two others had been injured following the Zodiac's attack on Brian Hartnell and Cecilia shepherd at Lake Berryessa on September 27. Napa police tried to find anyone that might have witnessed the crime or had eyes on the killer. The closest they came was a group of young women who'd been sunbathing at the lake around 2pm that day. A few hours before the attack, they claimed to have seen a husky man wearing dark clothing. It seemed like this may have been the Zodiac, but the information didn't lead them any further. However, one substantial clue did surface from the forensics team. The killer's footprints were visible going to and from the lake. Investigators were able to measure the killer at a size 10 and a half shoe. They were also able to estimate the man was over £200 by how far the footprints sank into the earth. It was promising information, but it wasn't specific enough for them to identify any new leads. And just a few weeks later, on October 11, 1969, the Zodiac struck again. 29 year old Paul Stine was a San Francisco doctoral student trying to make extra money by driving a cab on busy weekends. After a full day of airport runs and local drives, he circled the San Francisco theater district. After the shows let out. Around 10pm he picked up a passenger who instructed him to drive to the wealthy Presidio Heights neighborhood three miles away. The drive itself was uneventful, but when Paul stopped to let the passenger out, the man put a gun to Paul's temple and pulled the trigger. He died instantly. Three teenagers in a nearby building heard the shot go off. They called the police, thinking they were witnessing a robbery. But when the teens saw the man pull out a rag and wipe down the driver's side window and door, they knew it was something much worse. The teens called the police and reported seeing a white, stocky man at the scene. But somehow the description that went out to the police described the suspect as a black male. And because of that, the actual passenger was able to walk right by police cars speeding toward the scene.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (32:02)

This shift from targeting couples in secluded areas to targeting a single man is highly unusual because his previous victims were symbolic of something like young love or vulnerability. But with Paul Stein, a cab driver, an adult male in a public place, the murder seems more like a statement here. So we Know that the Zodiac wants to be feared. He wants to feel superior because he is both narcissistic and sadistic. Changing his MO like this allows him to instill even more fear. It's like telling the community and the authorities, all of who are watching and waiting for more information, anything on the Zodiac, he's telling them that he can and will strike at any time. Once you think you figured him out, he will surprise you, because he wants to be superior. He wants to be steps ahead. He wanted the public to feel unsafe everywhere. So ultimately, I feel like this wasn't about just a change in preference. I don't think that's what's happening. I think it was about evolving that whole spectacle that he likes to live out and play out, and it's about reinforcing his control over the fear that he's been generating.

Vanessa Richardson (33:11)

Even though the police had unwittingly let their suspect slip past them, there was plenty of forensic evidence left at the crime scene. A 9 millimeter shell casing was found on the floor of the cabin, which seemed to come this time from a Browning pistol. They also found a pair of black gloves that could have belonged to the suspect. But most importantly, there was a bloody fingerprint on the narrow panel between the front and rear doors of the driver's side. Unfortunately, the print didn't match anyone in their database. And it seemed like they were running out of time to find the Zodiac. Because two days later, on October 13, he sent out another letter. The message began like this. Quote, this is the Zodiac speaking. I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington street and Maple street last night. To prove this, here is a piece of his bloody shirt. I am the same man who did the people in the North Bay Area. And the letter ended with something even more disturbing. Quote, schoolchildren make nice targets. Okay, I think I shall wipe out a school bus some morning. Just shoot out the front tires and pick the kiddies off as they come bouncing out.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (34:28)

So once again, the Zodiac is really confusing everybody, and even me as a psychologist. Every time I think I'm getting somewhere with him, he does something that kind of throws you off of the same pattern or trail. So let's explore that. Why is he going from cryptic codes and these cocky letters to now threatening children like the most vulnerable members of society? This confirms what I was just saying earlier. It serves two distinct purposes. First, it's about power and fear, which we've established is, like, the major motivator for him here. And the Zodiac has already proven that he can Kill. And that he desperately wants control over that narrative. He's sending evidence to the police, he's proving this. But by threatening children, he's now struck at like, the emotional core of the community, of the entire community. Suddenly, parents weren't just afraid of lovers lanes, they were afraid of the morning bus stop and the idea that someone was out there deliberately targeting their kids. That's not fear, that's terror. Second, it's about desperation for attention. When killers like the Zodiac don't feel seen enough, or when the media starts to lose interest, or they're. They feel the public fear is fading, they'll then escalate their threat. Threats to reel everyone back in. And someone like the Zodiac, who craved that spotlight and fed off of control silence, was a threat to him. So the letters become louder, they become darker, and he needs to stay in control of the public's imagination. And of course, it's performative yet again, he's writing for an audience, and he's supposed to be the star, the one who has all the attention. And he just wants everyone to fear him on every level. Not just as a killer, but as an idea as well.

Vanessa Richardson (36:11)

Thankfully, the Zodiac didn't act on those threats. But he wasn't done taunting the authorities. And soon it seemed like he wanted to do more than just write letters. He wanted to be on TV. On October 22, 1969, 11 days after Paul Stine was killed, a man claiming to be the Zodiac called the Oakland Police. He said he wanted to talk to a high profile defense attorney named Melvin Belloc by calling into a local talk show. Melvin Beli was no stranger to publicity. He'd famously defended Jack ruby, who killed JFK's accused assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald in the early 1960s. And sure enough, when Beli appeared on KGO TV, hosted by Jim Dunbar, it appeared that the Zodiac kept his promise and called into the show. Belli did most of the talking to the caller, who said to refer to him as Sam. The first thing Bellai did was ask how Sam was feeling physically. He learned that Sam suffered from chronic headaches, but beyond that, it didn't yield much information. Toward the end of the conversation, Bell I invited Sam to meet him and Jim Dunbar at a nearby restaurant so they could discuss how to get Sam some help. Sam said yes. After the call, police vans and helicopters followed Belli to the restaurant. But after several hours, it became became clear that the Zodiac had no intention of showing his face. Then the same Sam started calling Belli at home. And police traced those calls to a Patient in a mental hospital named Eric Wheel. Although it seems like the call to the Oakland police had been genuine, it quickly became obvious Eric Wheel was not the Zodiac killer.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (38:01)

Of all the people to impersonate, the Zodiac was not the one. This is surely going to enrage him, because like I've outlined, these letters are his scripts. He's the star. He's wanting people to know it's him and so that he can't be confused with anyone else. And now someone's kind of copycatting him. Some individuals, especially those who feel invisible or powerless in their own lives, are drawn to the infamy of figures like the Zodiac. They see how much attention that they get, and they crave a piece of that. In rare cases, people genuinely convince themselves that they're connected to the killer in some way. They might believe genuinely that they're helping them or finishing their work, or even that they themselves are the killer, especially if they're struggling with severe mental illness. This seems like it might have been the case for Eric Wheeler, given he was in a psychiatric hospital while making these claims. And then there's the thrill seeking aspect. For some copycats, it's about the adrenaline and the high that comes from pushing boundaries, scaring people, toying with law enforcement, but without taking the same risk risks the original killer did, they got all the benefits. This isn't a new phenomenon. Copycats. We've seen it with Jack the Ripper, Son of Sam, even with the BTK Killer, for example. But make no mistake, copycats can be dangerous because some of them actually do go on to commit violence.

Vanessa Richardson (39:25)

Well, it seems like the Zodiac didn't appreciate other people taking credit for his work. Because on November 8th and 9th, 1969, about two weeks after the fake call with Melvin Belli, he wrote two more letters. They were addressed to the San Francisco Chronicle, and they contained a new cipher. Once again, he boasted how much smarter he was than the police. He didn't mention anything about being impersonated, though he claimed none of the sketches of him were accurate and that the evidence the police found in Paul Stein's cab was meant to mislead them. Even even worse, he said that on the night of Paul's murder, a policeman had stopped him to ask if he'd seen anything suspicious. He vowed that they'd never get that close to him again, because the next time he killed, they wouldn't even know it was him. From then on, the Zodiac said, all his kills would appear random. And no matter what the authorities did, he'd always be one step ahead. Thanks so much for listening. In the next episode, we'll continue to discuss the Zodiac Killer's cryptic messages, the possible suspects connected to his crimes, and the enduring legacy of a killer who to this day, has never been caught.

Dr. Tristan Ingalls (40:55)

Killer Minds is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on Instagram @killerminds. And don't forget to rate, review and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference and.

Vanessa Richardson (41:14)

To enhance your listening experience. Subscribe subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad free, along with early access to each thrilling two part series and exciting Crime House bonus content. Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson and Dr. Tristan Engels and is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Killer Minds team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertzovsky, Sarah Camp, Dan Merck, Beth Johnson and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.