The D.C. Snipers: Murder Manipulation and a Lost Boy Pt. 2

Summary

Serial Killers & Murderous Minds

Episode Summary: The D.C. Snipers: Murder Manipulation and a Lost Boy, Pt. 2

Release Date: July 16, 2026
Hosts: Vanessa Richardson & Dr. Tristin Engels

---

Episode Overview

In Part 2 of their deep dive into the D.C. Snipers, Vanessa Richardson and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristin Engels analyze the chilling partnership between John Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo. The episode explores John’s descent into megalomania, Lee’s manipulation and loss of self, the dynamics of their killing spree, and the psychological aftermath for both. Expert commentary provides context for the killers’ motivations, their relationship, the failures of law enforcement, and the ultimate legal reckoning.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Influence and Psychological Domination

• Vanessa introduces the concept of how those closest to us shape our lives—and how, in Lee’s case, John Muhammad’s influence turned deadly.
• The focus is on Lee as a “lost boy,” manipulated and psychologically battered until he became a killer ([00:59]).

First Murders and the Trust Built by Violence

• John’s original intent: kill his ex-wife Mildred and regain custody of his children, disguising the act with a campaign of random killings ([05:32]).
• They start by targeting people connected to Mildred’s escape, such as Kenya Cook ([05:32]); John abuses Lee after his initial hesitation.
• Notable quote:

  “John gifted Lee with a fake ID... It was John’s way of symbolically adopting Lee as his own son. And it meant more to Lee than he was able to put into words.” —Vanessa ([05:32])

Brainwashing, Abuse, and Conditioning

• John subjects Lee to weapons training and emotional manipulation.
• Dr. Engels debunks the myth that video games can turn people into killers, emphasizing the role of empathy erosion over media influence ([06:50]).

• “What John is effectively doing is teaching Lee that empathy, guilt, fear and emotional conflict are signs of weakness that need to be suppressed, ignored, or overcome...” —Dr. Engels ([06:50])

Escalation and Killings Across States

• The pair travels from the West Coast to the East, killing strangers for money and to build their “random crime” façade.
• Tactical innovation: John modifies a Chevy Caprice with a hidden gun port, facilitating anonymous shootings and mobility ([11:33] onwards).
• Police repeatedly miss critical clues (e.g., car sightings, bullet ballistics), highlighting investigative failures ([13:30]).

The Psychology of Power, Control, and Recognition

• Dr. Engels interprets John’s excitement at law enforcement’s mounting panic as a desire for power, not just revenge ([09:55], [15:01]).

• “For perhaps the first time in years, he isn’t the one reacting. Everyone else is. He knows something they don’t know. He’s directing events from the sidelines while everyone else will be scrambling to understand what’s happening. That’s a level of influence that he’s never had before. This is all about control for him.” —Dr. Engels ([09:55])

Expanding Chaos: Violence in the South and a Pattern of Mistakes

• John and Lee’s crimes spread through Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, and back to Washington D.C., with increasing carelessness (leaving fingerprints and evidence) as they gain confidence ([18:57], [21:36]).
• Dr. Engels notes the duality of criminal sophistication and inevitable error:

  “Offenders are not always highly sophisticated. They’re not always completely reckless either. In reality, they’re often both...” ([20:55])

The Sniper Spree and Media Frenzy

• In October 2002, the D.C. sniper attacks escalate—multiple daylight murders, creation of mass panic, intense media coverage ([22:58]).
• Lee’s unsettling reaction to violence:

  “As they drove off, Lee showed signs that he was becoming just as crazed as John. He laughed at the sight of the lawnmower continuing on without James.” —Vanessa ([23:08])

• Dr. Engels explains the possible psychology behind Lee’s laughter ([23:08]).

Hesitation, Morality, and Lee’s Remaining Humanity

• When ordered to shoot a child at a school, Lee aims to wound rather than kill, signifying a faint remaining moral boundary ([26:51]):

• “Children may not feel like anonymous victims to him... they may feel more familiar, more relatable, or more deserving of protection... This hesitation tells us that Lee still has independent values and he’s questioning what he is being asked to do...” —Dr. Engels ([26:51])

National Fear, Changing Motives, and Extortion Attempt

• With intense nationwide coverage and a growing reward pool, John tries to extort authorities for $10 million ([29:42], [32:02]).
• Dr. Engels reframes John as an opportunist:

  “Whether that’s power, attention, control, recognition, or financial gain, the violence is the tool and that is opportunism.” ([31:19])

The Beginning of the End: Mistakes Lead to Capture

• Forensic breakthroughs from earlier crimes (fingerprints, credit card) reveal Lee’s identity; authorities link him to John ([32:55]-[33:55]).
• They leave taunting messages to police:

  “Your incompetence has cost you another life.” ([35:22])

• Dr. Engels frames this as control and manipulation—parallel to the abuse John inflicted on others ([35:22]).

Arrest and Legal Aftermath

• John and Lee are arrested at a rest stop when caught sleeping in their modified Caprice ([36:23]).
• The trial: John receives the death penalty, Lee—by virtue of youth and his psychological manipulation defense—receives life without parole ([38:55]-[41:32]).
• Dr. Engels dissects the insanity defense:

  “There is evidence that Lee was, in fact, isolated. He was manipulated, dependent on John, and subjected to repeated psychological influence... But that’s very different from proving that he was legally insane or completely detached from reality.” ([39:12])

Reflections and Legacy

• Lee, now in his early 40s and still imprisoned, expresses regret and recognizes John's overwhelming influence ([41:32]).
• Vanessa closes the episode noting how Lee’s realization came “far too late.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Vanessa ([05:32]): “It was John’s way of symbolically adopting Lee as his own son. And it meant more to Lee than he was able to put into words.”
• Dr. Engels ([06:50]): “But what John is effectively doing is teaching Lee that empathy, guilt, fear, and emotional conflict are signs of weakness...”
• Dr. Engels ([09:55]): “For perhaps the first time in years, he isn’t the one reacting. Everyone else is. He knows something they don’t know.”
• Dr. Engels ([15:01]): “He is realizing his actions are becoming meaningful on a larger scale. And if he’s attracted to power, which I think it’s safe to say is the case, then that power just got exponentially bigger in his eyes.”
• Dr. Engels ([23:08]): “Human beings laugh for many different reasons. People sometimes laugh when they’re uncomfortable... it can also serve as a release of tension after a highly stressful event...”
• Dr. Engels ([26:51]): “Children may not feel like anonymous victims to him... That’s a very real limit. And whatever it is, this hesitation tells us that Lee still has independent values and he’s questioning what he is being asked to do...”
• Dr. Engels ([35:22]): “What’s happening here could reflect John’s growing confidence, his need for recognition or enjoyment from taunting police. The police have gone from obstacles to audience. And an audience makes him feel powerful.”
• Dr. Engels ([39:12]): “Those facts can make it more difficult to argue that he was in a dissociative state... his thinking, judgment, identity and decision making may have been heavily shaped by a relationship with someone with a lot of influence over him... But that is not enough to satisfy the legal standard of insanity...”

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:59] – Introduction to Lee and John's dynamic; theme of influence
• [05:32] – John’s first murder plot; symbolic “adoption” of Lee
• [06:50] – Dr. Engels on video games and empathy
• [09:55] – Psychological analysis of John’s need for control
• [13:30]-[15:01] – Law enforcement misses clues; John’s excitement at recognition
• [18:57] – Killings expand to the Deep South
• [23:08] – Lee laughs after a murder; Dr. Engels unpacks possible meanings
• [26:51] – Lee’s hesitation to shoot a child; Dr. Engels on morality and empathy
• [29:42]-[32:02] – Extortion attempt and notes to law enforcement
• [35:22] – “Your incompetence has cost you another life” note; Dr. Engels on taunting and abuse parallels
• [36:23]-[41:32] – Arrest, trial, and forensic analysis of insanity defense
• [41:32]-[42:58] – Reflections, Lee’s regret, and the legal aftermath

---

Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a meticulous, psychologically driven narrative of the D.C. Snipers case, focusing not on the brutality of the crimes alone but on the manipulation and abusive dynamics that allowed evil to flourish. Dr. Engels’ insights give depth to Lee’s transformation and John’s megalomania, while the hosts keep the focus on empathy, psychology, and justice. The story is a harrowing example of how manipulation and a hunger for power can destroy lives—not only of victims but those seduced into darkness themselves.

Transcript

[A]

Hi listeners, it's Vanessa. Before today's episode, I want to take a brief moment to tell you about a show from Crime House's sister studio, Rewind that I know you'll love. It's called Government that Doesn't Suck, hosted by professors Lindsay Cormack and Greg Jackson from History that Doesn't Suck. Ever wonder how the weather forecast on your phone is so accurate? Or how your mail still gets across the country for less than a dollar? Or who actually built the highway you drove on this morning? Each episode tells the surpr of an American institution that you'll never look at the same way again. Listen to and follow Government that Doesn't Suck every other Monday on Apple podcasts and Spotify, or watch video episodes on YouTube.

[B]

This is Crime House.

[A]

There's a saying that goes, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. It's the idea that those closest to us have the most influence over our goals, success and overall mindset. The thought is validating for those who feel surrounded by loyal friends, happy family and reliable co workers. For others who aren't so lucky, it could be the motivation they need to cultivate new relationships. And then there are those who don't even realize the impact others others have on them. They might not realize the toxic influence someone has until it's too late. In the case of Lee Boyd Malvo, his mentor and father figure, John Muhammad was more than toxic. He was deadly. John convinced Lee to commit horrific acts of violence. Eventually, Lee no longer recognized himself. And by the time he realized what had happened, there was no going back. He'd been transformed into a killer. The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Serial Killers and Murderous Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

[C]

And I'm forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.

[A]

Crime House exists because of listeners like you. Want even more, join Crime House plus and get both parts of every story dropped on the same Monday completely ad free. No waiting 3 days for part 2 plus crime house bonus episodes every month. To join, go to crimehouseplus.com or or if you listen on Apple Podcasts tap try free at the top of the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds page. Before we get started, be advised that this episode contains discussion of abuse and murder, so please listen with care. Today we conclude our deep dive into Lee Boyd Malvo and John Muhammad, better known as the D.C. snipers. In the early 2000s, John and Lee terrorized the D.C. metropolitan area and the rest of the nation. They killed almost 20 innocent victims and injured even more, all so that John could get to his real target, his ex wife. But despite all of John's planning, a series of careless mistakes finally brought them down.

[C]

As Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like how some killers become more crazed over time, why they may leave behind daunting messages for the police, and how the cycle of abuse can factor into murder trials.

[A]

And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?

[D]

If you're the proud parent of a puppy or kitten, you know you can't pet proof your entire life. There simply isn't a sock drawer high enough or a couch cover thick enough. But you can pet proof your wallet with Lemonade Pet Insurance. Whether it's an unexpected accident or a routine checkup, Lemonade can cover up to 90% of the bill. Plus they can handle claims in as little as two seconds. So before you turn into a complete helicopter pet parent, get a'[e-mail] pet if

[B]

you've been holding back on launching your dream business, it's time to stop making excuses. Shopify is where you finally go to get started. They offer everything you need to succeed from day one. They completely simplify the process so you can focus on what matters. Think about how you want your brand to look. Imagine the confidence of launching with a world class checkout system already built into it, allowing your customers to buy effortlessly in just one click. Whenever you run into a roadblock or find yourself asking those tough startup questions, Shopify's AI assistant called Sidekick is right there to help you build and troubleshoot. You get to build your dream on the same reliable platform that powers household names like Mattel, saving you time to scale. All you need is the idea Shopify handles the rest. Go to shopify.comtinderfoot to start your free trial today. That's shopify.comtinderfoot shopify.comtinderfoot

[A]

By February of 2002, 41 year old John Muhammad had brought his protege, 16 year old Lee Boyd Malvo, into his plot to kill his ex wife Mildred. John's end goal was to gain custody of his three young children, John Jr, Selena and Taliba. His plan involved carrying out a killing spree as a way to make Mildred's eventual death seem random. But even though John planned to kill strangers, the he started with someone he knew. On February 16th of that year, he'd instructed Lee to kill Kenya Cook in Tacoma, Washington. Kenya was related to a woman who'd helped Mildred get away from John. Afterward, John gifted Lee with a fake ID with the name John Lee Muhammad. It was John's way of symbolically adopting Lee as his own son. And it meant more to Lee than he was able to put into words. At the same time, John could tell Lee was shaken by what he'd just done. And to the military veteran, that kind of reaction was unacceptable. So despite his fatherly gesture, over the next few days, John was extremely abusive toward Lee. He berated him for being weak and forced him to play violent video games to remind him how to stay cool under pressure.

[C]

I just want to take a quick moment to dispel any myths regarding video game use. The research generally does not support support the idea that violent video games turn people into violent offenders. Millions of people play violent video games without committing violent crimes. Video games can desensitize people to violent imagery. But there is no evidentiary support that they will teach Lee to remain, quote, cool under pressure. He's not in an actual military simulation. It's not at that level of realistic. Nor is he likely experiencing genuine life threatening fear when he plays these video games. Jump scares, maybe, but life threatening fear is far less likely. But what John is effectively doing is teaching Lee that empathy, guilt, fear and emotional conflict are signs of weakness that need to be suppressed, ignored, or overcome. And remember when Lee hesitated before killing Kenya, that was likely because of some empathy. And without that, though, future violence becomes easier.

[A]

Well, John didn't just use video games to attempt to brainwash Lee. He also put the teenager through weapons training and physical drills. After about a month of all that, John felt like he'd honed Lee's killer instinct. They planned to strike in the Tacoma area again. However, in early March 2002, they were arrested for shoplifting food. Once they were out of police custody, John thought they should get out of Dodge. So they got on a bus to Tucson, Arizona, where John's sister lived. While there, they cased a nearby golf course and found a concealed area with a clear shot onto the links. On March 19, they settled into their hiding spot while a 60 year old man named Jerry Taylor was practicing. Alone and unassuming. John gave the order and Lee fired a single shot, hitting Jerry in the chest. He died instantly. Then either John or Lee ran onto the course and stole Jerry's cash and credit cards from his wallet. After that, they both fled to the nearest bus stop. But John stopped before getting on. He Told Lee they should wait for the cops to show up. He wanted to witness the chaos they had caused. It made him feel powerful.

[C]

Throughout the story, we've seen that John appears to be a highly controlling and dangerous person. He controlled what Mildred wore. He threw away her belongings and then gaslit her. He became jealous when her attention was directed toward his children. He stalked and threatened Mildred when she tried to leave. Again and again we see him reacting aggressively when people exercise independence or move beyond his influence. And then he loses control. When Mildred leaves, she obtains a protection order. She reports the children abducted. She changes her name and moves across the country. The people he most wanted to control are no longer under his control. So he plots his revenge. And here we are.

[D]

John.

[C]

Saying that watching the police response made him feel powerful isn't surprising when you consider all of that. In fact, it fits him for perhaps the first time in years. He isn't the one reacting. Everyone else is. He knows something they don't know. He's directing events from the sidelines while everyone else will be scrambling to understand what's happening. That's a level of influence that he's never had before. This is all about control for him.

[A]

As John rode the high of their Tucson murder, he still tried to keep tabs on his ultimate target, his ex wife, Mildred. To do that, he enlisted the help of a father's rights group. And In May of 2002, about two months after Jerry's murder, the group told him they'd tracked Mildred down in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C. specifically an area known as Clinton. So John decided it was time for him and Lee to head east. In September of 2002, they took a Greyhound bus from Arizona to Maryland. As they sat quietly watching the landscape rush by, John noticed the bus driver's backpack on the floor near her seat. Before he and Lee got off, John reached into the backpack and stole the driver's credit cards. It was enough to get them started in Maryland. However, the cards were soon canceled and they were in need of more money. So John revisited an earlier tactic targeting restaurant workers. Leaving their shifts and carrying the cash they'd earned burned. And at some point, they obtained a new firearm. On the night of September 5th, they waited outside an Italian restaurant in Clinton. At 10:30pm the owner, 55 year old Paul La Rufa, stepped outside. Lee shot him six times before he and John stole $3,500 from Paul as well as his laptop. Then they fled. They didn't stick around this time, so they had no idea that Paul had lived unfortunately, he didn't see who'd shot him, so he wasn't able to give a description. Investigators stored the bullets from Paul's wounds as evidence, but they had little else to go on. Meanwhile, John knew he and Lee needed a more reliable mode of transportation. So he used the cash they stole from Paul to buy a dark blue 1990 Chevy Caprice from an acquaintance in New Jersey. Now he and Lee could travel wherever they wanted with whenever they wanted. To conceal their crimes even more, John cut a hole in the trunk of the car above the rear license plate. The opening was just big enough to fit the barrel of a gun. He also removed the back seats, so whoever was shooting could easily stay concealed. Now, the car wasn't just their means of travel. It was their hideout and their getaway. And about a week later, they struck again. One night, they pulled into the parking lot of a beer and wine store In Maryland, about 7 miles outside of D.C. at around 10pm the owner of the store, Arnie Zelkovitz, and an employee, Benny o', Broy, stepped outside. All of a sudden, a shot rang out, and Benny fell to the ground. He'd been hit in his lower back, but fortunately, he lived. Neither Benny nor Arnie saw who did it, but when the police arrived, an employee at a nearby restaurant said they spotted an older, dark colored Chevy peel out of the lot. Right after the shooting. However, investigators assumed it was just another bystander leaving the shopping area, and they shrugged off the tip. So John and Lee were free to strike again. The very next night, on September 15th, they parked outside a liquor store just eight miles from Paula Rufa's restaurant. As the store's owner, Mohammed Rashid, closed up for the night, Lee fired at him twice. Rashid was hit, and he fell to the ground. He was still alive, but he didn't get up. Something inside him told him to pretend he was dead. Moments later, John approached and started rifling through Rashid's pockets. Rashid remained still as John took his wallet and ran off. Then Rashid rolled over, pulled out his cell phone, which John had somehow missed, and called 9. A helicopter airlifted Rashid to the hospital, where doctors told him he'd be okay. After surgery, he told investigators that before he was shot, he'd seen a dark car in the parking lot with two men inside. Police once again ignored the tip about the car. However, they did note that the bullets recovered from Rashid's injuries came from the same kind of gun they believed had been used in the attack on Paul Larufa. While the authorities didn't officially Link the two crimes. They took note of the similarities. And in the meantime, John was emboldened. He didn't know whether the police had connected things, but the possibility crossed his mind, and it excited him. John realized he didn't just want to be perceived as a local threat, But a national one.

[C]

The fact that John's excited people Are potentially connecting these crimes Is what's most interesting to me. Psychologically, that seems like a shift in focus. The shootings are no longer just producing victims to make the appearance of random killings so he can successfully murder his ex wife. They're creating recognition. People are talking about them, trying to understand them, and changing their behavior because of them. John is no longer anonymous, Even if his name remains unknown. He is realizing his actions are becoming meaningful on a larger scale. And if he's attracted to power, which I think it's safe to say is the case, Then that power just got exponentially bigger in his eyes.

[A]

Do you think John actually has a clear motive? Or is he just driven by this desire to kill and he's finding any excuse to do that?

[C]

It's really hard to say for sure. But if John's sole objective was to kill Mildred, There were far simpler ways to accomplish that goal. He had previously gone to her house with a rifle. He was capable of planning and thinking strategically. He could have devised another method that did not involve numerous innocent victims. He could have used Lee, who had no obvious connection to Mildred, to do that, the same way he's using him right now. Instead, he created this plan that required repeated acts of violence against complete, innocent strangers. That doesn't tell us exactly what his motive was or if he's just desiring to kill. But it does suggest that something more than Mildred's death May have been psychologically important to him. And the scale of the violence far exceeded what was necessary to accomplish what he alleges is his objection objective. And what we can say with relative certainty is John is driven by power and control. He's instrumental, he's manipulative. And he does seem to be enjoying this.

[A]

Confident he could prove he and Lee were a major threat, John decided they should branch out. He was eager to see what kind of terror they could stoke across the nation. And the further he and Lee went, the more they unraveled. The best summer wardrobe consists of pieces you wear on repeat because they're comfortable, versatile, and fit right in anywhere. That's why I love quince. They produce elevated essentials using premium materials Like European linen, Organic cotton, and washable silk, Minus the traditional retail markup. Their 100% European linen collection has become my summer obsession. The pieces are so lightweight, effortless to style and start at just $32. I love pairing their soft denim with an organic cotton sweater for chilly nights and adding their delicate 14 karat gold chains for a subtle finishing touch. Gorgeous and so easy to put together. By working directly with ethical factories and cutting out middlemen, Quince charges 50 to 80% less than high end brands. They also offer elevated essentials for your home. From kitchenware to bedding. Make your summer wardrobe feel easier. Go to quints.commurous for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.commurous for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commurous yo, it's Jey Uso from WWE

[E]

and I'm Jimmy Uso. Chumba Casino and WWE are hyped for the biggest event of the summer SummerSlam. I know I can't wait. There's nothing better to do while we're waiting than playing Chumba Casino. Sign up today and you could win a VIP experience with Chumba Casino and WWE for SummerSlam. So what are you waiting for? Play Chumba Casino and enter for your chance to win. Let's Chumble.

[C]

Purchase necessary BTW Group Void we're Prohibited by Long CTS &ZS21 Sponsored by Chumba

[A]

Casino By September 2002, 41 year old John Muhammad and 17 year old Lee Boyd Malvo had killed two people and injured three more across three states. The authorities hadn't connected the dots across the different jurisdictions, and as John's confidence grew, he became fixated on the idea of stoking national fear. So next he set his sights on the Deep South. It's not clear why John chose this region specifically, but once they arrived, he and Lee didn't waste any time. At around 12am on September 21, they pulled into a liquor store parking lot in Atlanta, Georgia. They turned up off the engine and waited. 41 year old Millian Waldemarium was closing up for the night when he noticed the dark blue Chevy outside. He didn't recognize it, so he stepped out to see what was going on. When he did, Lee fired and hit Million in the head. He and John then stole his wallet and sped off. First responders soon flooded the scene. They rushed Millian to the hospital. Unfortunately, he died hours later. Atlanta detectives recovered the bullets, but at the time they weren't aware of the shootings in other states. And since no one else had been around to see the blue Chevy, John and Lee quickly hightailed it out of Georgia and into Alabama without any issues. Around 7pm that same day, John and Lee shot two liquor store employees in Montgomery. 24 year old Kelly Adams and 52 year old Claudine Parker. Kelly survived, but Claudine did not this time. When police analyzed the scene, they found different pieces of evidence than what John and Lee had left behind before. Officers not only recovered bullet fragments that appeared to have come from an M16, but they also found a matching magazine. And when they analyzed the mag, they found fingerprints.

[C]

Offenders are not always highly sophisticated. They're not always completely reckless either. In reality, they're often both. John and Lee have put in a considerable effort in planning their crimes and their targets as well as their escape routes. But leaving some evidence at the scene isn't unusual. People tend to be good at planning for the risks they anticipate and much worse at planning for the ones that they don't. Another factor is success. The longer they avoid being caught, the more confidence they develop in their methods. And that confidence can gradually turn into complacency. They may begin focusing on what has worked in the past and pay less attention to potential mistakes.

[A]

Police in Alabama had obtained crucial evidence, but unfortunately the fingerprints weren't a match for anyone in their existing database. While multiple police departments struggled to zero in on their suspects, John and Lee headed next to Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And on September 23rd, they shot and killed a 45 year old beauty store employee named Hong Im Ballinger. They stole Hong Im's purse before fleeing. As they escaped, another employee spotted their dark color colored Chevy. It's unclear what other evidence the Baton Rouge authorities gathered, but John decided it was time for him and Lee to head back to the D.C. area where his ex wife Mildred lived. It seemed like he was making things up as he went, driven purely by a need to kill. Then around 6pm on October 2nd, John and Lee shot and killed a 55 year old man named James Martin in a parking lot in Wheaton, Maryland. They didn't steal anything from James like they had with previous victims. Instead, they sped off and found a rest area where they slept for the night. John was fully unchained. Now, Starting at around 7:40am on October 3rd, John and Lee killed four people in under two and a half hours. The first was 39 year old James Buchanan Jr. A landscaper who was pushing a lawnmower when he was shot. As they drove off, Lee showed Signs that he was becoming just as crazed as John. He laughed at the sight of the lawnmower continuing on without James.

[C]

Laughter doesn't always mean something is funny in the way that we normally think of humor. Human beings laugh for many different reasons. People sometimes laugh when they're uncomfortable, frightened, overwhelmed, shocked, or struggling to process something emotionally. That said, there are a few reasons Lee could have responded that way. I mean, firstly, humor is a defense mechanism. People sometimes laugh when they're confronted with situations that are uncomfortable to them because it creates distance from an experience or reality that is hard to process. It can also serve as a release of tension after a highly stressful event, and certainly sounds like that was a stressful event. Second, the laughter could be his way of aligning with John's expectations. Remember, by this point, John had repeatedly criticized empathy, distress, fear and hesitation as signs of weaknesses. So if Lee had learned that those reactions were unacceptable to him, he may have felt pressured to respond with a reaction that didn't generate concern. Especially if he felt he had to release some emotion, Then laughter would be a safe one, one that signaled alignment with John. And lastly, it could very well be an indication of Lee's changing relationship to violence. Constant exposure to violence or violent imagery can cause desensitization. Whatever the case, it's a very different reaction than the one we saw with Kenya.

[A]

As the two continued their spree, Lee seemed completely disconnected from reality. That morning, he and John killed two more people within a mile and a half radius. 54 year old Prem Kumar Wallkar, 34 year old Sarah Ramos and 25 year old Lorianne Louis Rivera. They shot Prem Kumar while he was filling his gas tank. Sarah while she waited for a bus, and Lori as she vacuumed her minivan at a gas station. These events marked a major shift in the investigation. Once so many murders occurred in quick succession, the police realized they may have a sniper on their hands and that it was only a matter of time before they took yet another victim. Investigators acted fast this time. A witness at the scene of Sarah Ramos's murder described seeing a white van with two men inside. Apparently the van sped off right after Sarah was shot. Police put out a BOLO for the van and soon tips came flooding in. However, John and Lee weren't driving a white van. They were in their blue Chevy, hiding in plain sight. They went to kill 72 year old Pascal Charlotte in the city of D.C. that night, John shot Pascal as he stood on a street corner waiting to cross. Police in Maryland quickly connected with the D.C. police. They realized they were probably looking for the same shooter who was clearly on the move. John must have sensed that police were catching on because he decided to strike further away next time. He and Lee drove to Fredericksburg, Virginia, about an hour outside D.C. on October 4, Lee shot a 43 year old woman named Carolyn Sewell. However, he and John didn't realize she survived. So John decided to scale things up again. Again. But this time he came up with a plan Lee never would have expected. John told Lee that he knew of a place where they could target multiple victims in one spot. A local middle school, specifically Benjamin Tasker Middle School in Bowie, Maryland. John also insisted that Lee be the one to pull the trigger. As kids got off the bus in the morning, Lee was torn. He didn't want to let John down, but he also wasn't going to comfortable killing children.

[C]

Lee is finding himself once again in another lose lose conflict. And the last time Lee hesitated was when he encountered Kenya. He likely hesitated as we discussed, because he identified with her. And to identify with someone generally there has to be some level of empathy. That is possibly what is happening here. Lee has been a vulnerable child throughout his life. And because of that, children may not feel like anonymous victims to him in the same way that adults do. They may feel more familiar, more relatable, or more deserving of protection. Another possibility is that children occupy a different moral category for many people. Even individuals who have committed serious violence sometimes maintain boundaries regarding children as targets. And having worked in prisons and jails for over a decade, I've seen this for myself. It's a very real limit. And whatever it is, this hesitation tells us that Lee still has independent values and he's questioning what he is being asked to do rather than accepting it without question like he has with the rest of their victims. So children appear to be a boundary for him. And it's more likely than not that he identifies with their vulnerability and he wants to protect that.

[A]

Lee may have been apprehensive, but he no longer had a sense of right and wrong. The only thing on his mind was John's orders. So on the morning of October 7, 2002, Lee took his position in the woods near Tasker Middle school. At around 8am he saw he had a clear shot of 13 year old iron Brown. Lee didn't want to disappoint John, but he also couldn't live with himself if he killed an innocent child. So he found a middle ground. Lee aimed for Iron's abdomen instead of his head. Fortunately, Iron survived. But the attack marked a major Shift in the national response to the shootings. Schools everywhere canceled outdoor activities and sports. And people actively avoided restaurants, supermarkets and gas stations. John and Lee had achieved the kind of mass fear and confusion that John had wanted. But he wasn't about to stop. Over the next week, the pair killed three more people in Virginia. 53 year old Kenneth Bridges and a 47 year old FBI analyst named Linda Franklin. The news of the shootings became the top headline across the nation. Because so many of the crimes had been committed in the D.C. metropolitan area. The media branded the unknown killer the D.C. sniper, unaware that a team of shooters was at large. Across the country, anxiety and panic skyrocketed. Especially because people were still reeling from the 911 attacks just one year earlier. All anyone wanted was for the violence to stop. And soon people started donating reward money to catch this ruthless killer. The pot grew into the hundred thousands. And that's when John realized the crimes could make him him rich. When he realized how much reward money was being offered, John thought he could extort that money instead. Even though financial gain wasn't his original motive, John became blinded by dollar signs. He told Lee they'd try to get $10 million. But John's vision was short sighted. And soon his get rich quick scheme would land a target on his own.

[D]

Back.

[A]

In early October of 2002, John Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo had gotten away with 14 murders and six non fatal shootings. They felt like they were untouchable. As the authorities searched desperately for leads and members of the public donated reward money, John realized there was more to gain from their crimes. He decided they should try extorting money from law enforcement. He and Lee started using payphones to call the FBI tip line as well as the Maryland authorities. They referenced crimes in other states like the one in Alabama and threatened to keep killing unless they got the money they wanted. But no one took the bait. Investigators were just too overwhelmed with all the incoming tips and couldn't act on each one right away. As their petty cash dwindled, John and Lee grew more frustrated.

[C]

It seems like John's motives continue to shift throughout their killing spree. But in reality, it actually highlights the type of offender John really is. So initially, his violence appears connected to a specific objective involving Mildred. But as the attacks continue, his crimes generate fear, attention, influence, media coverage, and now potentially money. As a result, like you outlined, John is discovering new rewards and has become increasingly willing to exploit whatever opportunities the shootings create. Whether that's power, attention, control, recognition, or financial gain, the violence is the tool and that is opportunism.

[A]

Soon, John and Lee tried out a new method to get their money. On October 19, 2002, they traveled to Ashland, Virginia, about 90 miles south of D.C. lee ventured into the woods behind a restaurant where he thumbtacked a note to a tree. The note outlined their demands, which included $10 million. But that wasn't all. Lee and John still possessed a stolen credit card from Arizona. It had been canceled and they wanted it reactivated with unlimited access to any ATM worldwide. They provided all the card info. Once the note was in place, Lee settled into a spot with a clear view of the restaurant. And just before 8pm he shot and wounded 37 year old Jeffrey Hopper. As he and his wife walked to their car. Local investigators, along with agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms arrived on the scene. The ATF's gunpowder sniffing dog led them into the woods directly to the tree where Lee had left the list of demands. But it turned out that wasn't all he'd left behind. Lee also discarded an empty snack food bag on the ground. Investigators saved it, analyzed it, and realized it was covered in fingerprints. Between that and the credit card information, FBI agents were confident they could zero in on a suspect. Pretty soon they realized the card had been canceled a month earlier after it was stolen from a Greyhound bus driver in Arizona. This was one of the first key discoveries that helped the authorities realize just how far reaching the sniper murders really were. And as agents continued digging, they noticed a record of a recent tip caller who'd mentioned a fatal shooting in Alabama. The FBI contacted the Alabama authorities and learned that the shooting was not only real, but that they'd obtained prints from a discarded gun magazine. This discovery blew the case wide open. Pretty soon, the FBI and D.C. area police realized that those prints were not only a match for the ones found on the snack food bag, but that belonged to a teenage boy. Boy named Lee Boyd Malvo. Lee's information had been entered into a federal database after he and his mother once tried to illegally enter the U. S. But that wasn't the only thing they found in his file. Apparently, Lee's mother Una had recently entered a bitter custody battle with a man named John Muhammad. According to Una, Lee had run away to live with John. And John had told Una he intended to adopt Lee. Now authorities had two suspect names. It was the first time they realized John and Lee might be working together. Now it was just a matter of tracking them down. Unfortunately, they didn't work fast enough. On October 22, 2002, John and Lee shot and killed a 35 year old man named Conrad Johnson on the top step of the commuter bus he drove in Aspen Hill, Maryland. When investigators combed the scene, they found another note. But it didn't contain demands, nor did it contain any potentially identifying information. It simply read, quote, your incompetence has cost you another life. End quote.

[C]

This note serves no practical purpose. It doesn't help them obtain money or advance their objective. It certainly doesn't help them avoid being captured. It's just communicating for the sake of communicating, which tells me there's a desire to influence, criticize, or interact with law enforcement beyond what's actually necessary. They're also shifting responsibility and blame for their actions onto law enforcement. That signals that John is positioning himself as the person of power and authority, which is not unlike what he's done in his relationships with Mildred or even Lee. The gaslighting, the coercion, the manipulation. The Darvo abusers are great manipulators and understand the importance of narrative control, which we talked about in episode one. What's happening here could reflect John's growing confidence, his need for recognition or enjoyment from taunting police. Or maybe a combination of these, which is often the case. The police have gone from obstacles to audience. And an audience makes him feel powerful.

[A]

John seemed to enjoy taunting the police, but he had no idea that his past mistakes would soon be his own demise. And investigators were digging up old records on John and learned about his history of domestic abuse. They quickly found Mildred and took her and the children into protective custody, foiling the original intention behind his plan. And John's history of abuse wasn't all they found. Detectives also scoured traffic logs and discovered that John had a 1990 Chevy Caprice registered under his name. They finally ran, realized they weren't looking for a white van at all. And now they put a BOLO out on the Chevy's license plate number. About two days later, on October 24, 2002, a Maryland driver spotted the Chevy at a rest stop and called the police. And at 3:15am a SWAT team surrounded the car with John and Lee sleeping inside. When they woke up and realized what was happening, happening, it was too late. They had nowhere to run. The D.C. snipers reign of terror was over. With John and Lee finally in custody, the entire country breathed a sigh of relief. The families of their victims could properly grieve. But as far as true justice was concerned, the real work was just beginning. Since the crime spanned several states and involved different violations, federal authorities pursued the charges they felt were most likely to lead to convictions. John was charged with one count of capital murder in virginia. And six counts of first degree murder in maryland. He was also charged with conspiracy, Committing murder during an extortion scheme, and possessing weapons While under a domestic order of protection. Lee received the same murder charges in Virginia and maryland, as well as committing murder during an extortion scheme scheme. The prosecution and the public Wanted to see John and Lee Pay severely for their crimes. And when john went to trial, it was clear they'd get their wish. In November of 2003, John Muhammad was convicted of capital murder and received the death penalty. Two years later, he was found guilty on the remaining six counts of murder. When lee went to trial, his attorneys hoped that John's convictions Would work in their favor. They called a psychologist to the stand who said john was a mastermind who brainwashed lee. The lawyers used this argument to build an insanity defense. They said that between the violent trainings and the fact that John had isolated Lee from his loved ones, Lee had entered a dissociative state. In other words, he'd completely lost touch with reality.

[C]

That's a very high burden to meet. But first, let's discuss what a dissociative state is. Is it's a disruption in the normal integration of consciousness, memory, identity, perception, or awareness. People experiencing dissociation May feel detached from themselves, Disconnected from their surroundings, Emotionally numb, Or as though events are happening in a dream. In severe cases, they may have memory gaps or feel like they're observing themselves from the outside. It doesn't mean that they've lost touch with reality like they're describing necessarily. They're still oriented. They know who they are, they know where they are, they know what's happening around them. They're just experiencing it differently. That's where I think the defense argument becomes more complicated. If they're arguing that alone. Based on what we've discussed, There is evidence that Lee was, in fact, isolated. He was manipulated, Dependent on John, and subjected to repeated psychological influence. Those factors could potentially affect judgment, autonomy, Decision making, and certainly contribute to dissociative symptoms. So the idea that Lee was profoundly influenced by John Is not unreasonable at all. But that's very different from proving that he was legally insane or completely detached from reality. Legal insanity means that because of a mental disease or defect, they were unable to appreciate the wrongfulness of their actions at the time of the offense. And throughout all of this, across multiple states, there's also evidence that Lee did understand what he was doing. He took steps to avoid being caught. He followed plans, and he recognized the consequences of failure. Those facts can make it more difficult to argue that he was in a dissociative state. I think the stronger argument for the defense, legally and forensically speaking, is that his thinking, judgment, identity and decision making may have been heavily shaped by a relationship with someone with a lot of influence over him him. That said, I don't think that is enough to satisfy the legal standard of insanity, which varies by jurisdiction. And I have never met nor evaluated Lee personally, but criminal responsibility cases are notoriously hard to prove.

[A]

In the end, the insanity defense did little to help Lee. In December of 2003, he was found guilty on all the same murder counts as John. However, the jury decided not to sentence him to death and he received life in prison without the possibility of parole. It's unclear whether the two ever spoke again after their trials and seven years later, on November 10, 2009, 48 year old John Muhammad was put to death. As of this recording, 41 year old Lee Boyd Malvo is serving out his life sentence at Keene Mountain Correctional center in Virginia. Although in 2020 changes to Virginia law made him parole eligible, so far it's been denied, but a court has ruled that he needs to be re sentenced, which hasn't happened as of this recording. In the time since the shootings, Lee has come to realize how much of a hold John had over him and the sheer amount of evil he carried out under John's orders. He's told reporters that he was a monster for what he did did. Tragically, that realization came far too late. Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer.

[C]

Serial Killers and and Murderous Minds as a Crime House Original Powered by Pave Studios Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on Instagram. Crime House don't forget to rate, review and follow Serial Killers and Murderous Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference and

[A]

to enhance your listening experience, join Crime House plus and get both parts of every single story dropped on the same Monday completely ad free. No waiting 3 days for part 2 plus crime house bonus episodes every month. To join go to crimehouseplus.com or if you listen on Apple Podcasts tap try free at the top of the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds page. Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson and for forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels and is a Crime House original Powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertzofsky, Sarah Camp, Alyssa Fox, Dana Rossi, Sarah Batchelor, Kaylee Pine, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.