Killer Minds x Crime House Crossover

Episode Summary: "The Smiley Face Killers with Dr. Tristin Engels"

Podcast: Killer Minds: Serial Killers & True Crime Murders
Host: Vanessa Richardson
Guest: Dr. Tristin Engels (Clinical & Forensic Psychologist)
Air Date: December 24, 2025

Overview

In this gripping crossover episode, Vanessa Richardson (of "Killer Minds") and Dr. Tristin Engels explore the enduring and controversial "Smiley Face Killers" theory. The episode delves into the background of a decades-long conspiracy theory which claims an organized group of serial killers have murdered dozens of young men across the U.S., leaving behind a haunting calling card: a painted smiley face. Together, Vanessa and Dr. Engels examine the evidence, psychological feasibility, criticisms, and the profound impact of unresolved tragedies—balancing true crime storytelling with expert forensic psychology insights.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin of the Smiley Face Killers Theory

[01:43–05:35]

• Vanessa recounts the suspicious 1999 drowning of Brian Welzian, highlighting minimal decomposition in his body despite being missing for three months.
• Retired NYPD detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte establish in 2006 a theory linking similar deaths—white, athletic, college-aged men—who go missing after drinking and are later found drowned near a spray-painted smiley face.
• Early pattern recognition: “They were coordinated attacks by a cabal of murderers with a unique calling card. A graffiti smiley face.” – Vanessa Richardson [01:53]

2. Detailed Case Study: Patrick McNeil

[06:41–13:38]

• Patrick, a 20-year-old Fordham University student, disappeared after a bar night in NYC, with witnesses reporting a car following him.
• Detectives believed evidence suggesting abduction, potential drugging, and even staged wounds or burning—but the police quickly ruled an accidental drowning.
• Gannon grows frustrated by bureaucracy and later becomes obsessed with unresolved cases, especially after surviving cancer.

3. Why Cold Cases Haunt Investigators

[13:38–14:53]

• Dr. Engels offers psychological perspective, explaining that unfinished cases often become “unfinished parts of an investigator's identity,” especially when blocked by resource limits or bureaucracy.

  “When you dedicate your life to helping people, unfinished work can stay with you… Closure becomes its own form of healing.” – Dr. Tristin Engels [13:38]

4. Launching an Unofficial Investigation

[14:53–19:57]

• Gannon teams up with Duarte and Doc Gilbertson, a criminal justice professor.
• They gather and analyze case details, discovering geographical and circumstantial patterns in more than 80 suspicious drownings—often accompanied by smiley face graffiti.
• Use of GPS and water flow analysis points to deliberate disposal sites.

5. Evaluating the Psychology: Group Serial Murder Viability

[22:45–24:24]

• Dr. Engels highlights the extreme rarity of organized groups of serial killers.

  “Serial homicide by nature... doesn't usually translate well into group behavior… The idea of multiple offenders working together seamlessly like this across states and years isn’t just logistically improbable. It's psychologically inconsistent.” – Dr. Tristin Engels [22:45]

6. Signature Behavior: Smiley Face Graffiti

[24:24–25:41]

• Discussion centers on the meaning and evidentiary value of the smiley face signature.

  “Signature behavior… is usually very personal… The smiley faces found near these drownings didn’t show that level of consistency.” – Dr. Tristin Engels [24:33]

• Commonness of the symbol weakens its connection as a definitive criminal signature.

7. Medical Evidence & Forensic Limitations

[25:41–29:24]

• Examination of GHB (date rape drug) found in some victims, but lack of consistent toxicology testing in earlier cases leaves gaps.
• Investigative limitations around water deaths—potential evidence washed away, and ambiguity on cause of death.
• Institutional preference for “accidental death” rulings to avoid protracted (and expensive) investigations.

8. Media Frenzy and Public Reaction

[36:01–41:57]

• KSTP News’s viral article brings national attention; detectives appear on major talk shows.
• The theory sparks public fear and anger, though authorities refuse to reopen closed cases.
• Academic world and many law enforcement agencies issue strong pushback, citing weak links and widespread confirmation bias.

9. Academic and Law Enforcement Critique

[41:57–43:24]

• Scholarly studies, notably the Center for Homicide Research’s “Drowning the Smiley Face Murder Theory,” critique the team’s methodology—especially variability of graffiti and lack of consistent crime scenes.
• Dr. Engels largely concurs:

  “When someone dedicates their career... it becomes incredibly difficult to separate the need to believe from the need to know… The theory feels emotionally true… But emotional truth isn’t the same as empirical truth.” – Dr. Tristin Engels [41:57]

10. False Hope, Victim's Families, and Meaning-Making

[48:13–49:36]

• Some families of victims express resentment, feeling misled or “used” as the theory failed to yield justice or answers.

  “The desire to prove a theory seemed to have become stronger than the need to serve the victim's families… People want to believe there's an explanation or a pattern and a villain. It's easier to have explanations or something to blame than accepting the possibility of a random tragedy.” – Dr. Tristin Engels [48:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On investigative obsession:

  “Unfinished work can stay with you. In Kevin's case…his renewed interest seems driven by interest, but also post-traumatic purpose.”
  – Dr. Tristin Engels [13:38]

• On confirmation bias:

  “The problem is, when you push for a headline-grabbing explanation like this, it can start to overshadow the pursuit of justice itself and…undermine the very victims and families they’re trying to honor.”
  – Dr. Tristin Engels [35:08]

• On the enduring mystery:

  “We may never know exactly what happened to the men who died. It's a mystery that seems to defy explanation. But a coordinated network of serial killers is certainly a compelling one.”
  – Vanessa Richardson [49:36]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Background & Introduction: 01:43–05:35
• Case Studies & Gannon’s Investigation: 06:41–13:38
• Dr. Engels on investigatory psychology: 13:38–14:53
• Formation of "Nationwide Investigations": 14:53–19:57
• Forensic psychology critique of group serial murder: 22:45–24:24
• Discussion of signature behaviors: 24:24–25:41
• Evidence debates & toxicology: 25:41–29:24
• Explosion in public awareness, media: 36:01–41:57
• Academic report & expert agreement: 41:57–43:24
• Family reactions & broader meaning: 48:13–49:36

Tone & Final Reflections

The episode strikes a balance between the chilling intrigue of an unsolved mystery and a thoughtful, science-driven skepticism. Vanessa guides listeners through the theory with a sense of empathy for both victims and investigators; Dr. Engels brings clear, reasoned psychological expertise, repeatedly cautioning against leaping from emotional resonance to empirical certainty.

Takeaway

While the Smiley Face Killer theory has deeply captured the public imagination—propelled by passionate unofficial investigation and fuelled by genuine ambiguities in several deaths—there remains little hard evidence to tie the pattern to a coordinated group of killers. Both hosts emphasize the importance of critical thinking, empathy for grieving families, and the dangers posed when hope, fear, and cognitive bias shape the pursuit of truth.

Listener Engagement Prompt:

"Do you think Kevin Gannon’s theory was correct? Are law enforcement agencies covering up these deaths? And do you think the Smiley Face Killers might still be out there? Tell us in the comments." – Vanessa Richardson [49:36]

Special thanks to Dr. Tristin Engels for clinical insights. New episodes of "Killer Minds" and "Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes" drop weekly on Crime House Studios channels.