Is Xbox Game Pass Ruining Video Games? - Kinda Funny Games Daily 09.08.25

Summary

Kinda Funny Games Daily – Is Xbox Game Pass Ruining Video Games? (09.08.25)

Brief Overview

In this September 8, 2025 episode of Kinda Funny Games Daily, hosts Blessing Adeoye Jr. and Snowbike Mike deep-dive into the hottest topics in video game news. The show’s main thread: the ongoing debate about the impact of Xbox Game Pass on the industry, spurred by recent comments from former Xbox, PlayStation, and Bethesda execs. Particular focus is given to concerns from developers regarding Game Pass, the complexities of subscription economics, and the trajectory of physical vs. digital game media. Other discussions include impressions from PAX West, new PlayStation 6 rumors, Wolfenstein’s future, and smaller news items. The hosts retain their trademark energetic, friendly, and candid tone throughout.

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Marvel Tokon Fighting Game & PAX West Highlights (00:42 – 11:10)

Key Points and Impressions

• Marvel Tokon Fighting Game (00:48 – 03:39)

  • Blessing praises the closed beta, calling it “the return of Dragon Ball Fighters” and noting developer Arc System Works' reputation as “the current fighting game Goats” (01:16).
  • The game features 4v4 matches with a shared health bar per team:

    “You can just stay with one character the whole time and then like just use the other characters as assist moves and stuff like that.” – Blessing (01:45)

  • Characters highlighted: Ms. Marvel, Iron Man (“projectile city”), and Star Lord.
  • Visual style and UI receive particular praise.

• PAX West Recap (03:39 – 11:10)

  • Blessing went low-key for vacation but valued meeting community members and recommends that all who can should attend a game show at least once.
  • “You come across so many different cool vendors, so many cool indie games…” – Blessing (04:16)
  • Indie Highlight: Letter Lost: Booth experience blends live escape room puzzles with game promotion (05:18).
  • Other shout-outs: Magic: The Gathering’s new Spider-Man set and future plans to attend MagicCon Atlanta.

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Sports Sidebar (08:01 – 10:09)

• Snowbike Mike summarizes a huge sports weekend, with highlights from NFL’s return and college ball.
• Notable: “It might have been one of the greatest football games of all time to watch.” – Mike, on Ravens vs. Bills (09:08)
• Tribute to Carmelo Anthony entering the Hall of Fame.

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PlayStation 6 Modular Disc Drive Leak (11:40 – 18:52)

Discussion & Perspectives

• Summary of Report (11:40 – 15:03)

  • New rumors point toward a modular, optional disc drive on the PlayStation 6.
  • Intended to reduce costs and adapt to uncertain economic conditions (including tariffs).
  • Sony reiterates focus on local hardware over cloud gaming.

• Community Divide on Physical vs. Digital (15:03 – 18:52)

  • Mike, all-digital, appreciates having options and not paying for unused hardware.
  • Blessing acknowledges the joy of physical media but sees it as increasingly niche:

    “There’s something just special about holding, like, a cartridge or holding a disc… But as time goes, we’re becoming more and more of a niche, slash, older audience that does things like that.” – Blessing (16:36)

  • Industry trend: Most younger/new players are digital-only; GameStop has transitioned away from games as its focus.

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Main Topic: Is Xbox Game Pass Ruining Video Games? (18:52 – 50:41)

Executive Criticisms & Industry Fears (18:52 – 22:34)

• Summary of Industry Voices (18:52 – 22:34)
  • Pete Hines (Bethesda ex-SVP): Argues subscription models can “create weird inner tensions” and hurt developers if not carefully balanced.

    “...if you don’t figure out how to balance the needs of the service and the people running the service with the people who are providing the content… then you have a real problem.” – Pete Hines (paraphrased at 21:04)

  • Supported by ex-PlayStation exec Shawn Layden and former Xbox Game Studios head Shannon Loftus.

Three Angles: Consumer, Business, Developer (22:34 – 37:39)

• Consumer Perspective (23:02 – 27:21)

  • Both affirm Game Pass is “the best deal in gaming” for consumers, listing recent top-tier day-one releases (e.g., Expedition 33, Hollow Knight: Silksong).
  • “...it’s a subscription. You can turn it on, you can turn it off, whenever it appeases you… That’s a major win.” – Mike (24:13)
  • Value for families and kids highlighted: “That is value.” – Blessing, recalling his nephew’s experience (26:55)
  • Blessing predicts eventual price hikes will force new evaluation.

• Microsoft’s Perspective (27:22 – 29:56)

  • Game Pass seen as a strategic win for Xbox’s relevance and consumer goodwill, even if not the runaway disruptor once hoped for.
  • “Nothing but small wins… that gets you in the news… a nice positive news cycle.” – Mike (28:44)

• Developer Perspective & Risks (30:00 – 38:14)

  • The real concerns: loss of retail revenue, pressure to adopt “post-release monetization,” and whether the service is truly sustainable or “healthy and helpful” for developers (31:57).
  • Blessing: “On the Game Pass side though, like, I look at that and I’m like, well, that seems like it makes sense to me as far as… why Game Pass is the strategy.” (28:44)
  • Reiterated: Some indies benefit greatly, but AAA space is more complicated.
  • Super Chat: David N. asks if Game Pass fundamentally changes game design; Mike and Blessing question that premise, suggesting failures (like Redfall, Tango Gameworks shuttering) are more about management than Game Pass itself (33:53).

Notable Audience & Crew Input

• Listeners share mixed experiences, including concern that Game Pass users “think every game is free” (36:22).
• Question over whether “lost” sales from subscription models push publishers to raise prices elsewhere (38:14).
• Barrett Courtney compares Game Pass to MoviePass, noting Game Pass’s deeper pockets (Microsoft) may secure long-term viability (40:19).

Is Game Pass Sustainable? (42:36 – 47:36)

• Blessing: “I am so worried about that… is Game Pass sustainable for us? I. I don’t know. They say yes, I just don’t know how.” (43:38)
• Mike argues Game Pass is stronger post-Activision/Blizzard, with Call of Duty and WoW bolstering the value proposition (44:53).
• Barrett clarifies there’s a difference between “a weak vision” and “an absolute ballooning of how much you own,” cautioning about risk (46:48).
• Blessing: Game Pass is “growing and getting stronger,” but the “ecosystem specifically, like, the studios and the games… I’m just seeing a lot of cancellations.” (47:38)
• Mike: Ultimately, player trust is in developers, not corporations; PlayStation still leads, as demand for Game Pass hasn’t fundamentally shifted the balance yet.

The Silver Lining: Creativity & the “Mid-Tier” Game (49:06 – 50:41)

• Game Pass has allowed many “midrange” or unconventional games (e.g., South of Midnight, Pentiment) to flourish:

  “For me that’s the dream of Game Pass…” – Blessing (50:06)

  • Mike: “We rarely talk about the hundreds of wins… over the 10 years doing this.” (50:12)

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Other Major News Segments

Wolfenstein Trilogy Not Over (53:13 – 61:15)

• Story Recap (53:13 – 55:02)
  • Machine Games co-founder Jerk Gustafson says Wolfenstein is intended as a trilogy—story not done yet.
  • Blessing and Mike, lifelong fans, agree hopes are high for a third entry.
• Memorable Moment
  • “Wolfenstein 2 is like one of the best FPS campaigns… We don’t talk about it enough.” – Blessing (56:46)

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Cyberpunk 2: Keanu Reeves Would Return (61:15 – 63:50)

• Keanu Reeves, asked by IGN, says he “absolutely” wants to return as Johnny Silverhand in Cyberpunk 2 (61:29).
• Blessing and Mike are open to at least a cameo appearance:

  “If Keanu Reeves looks at me, says, mike, yeah, I’d come back as Johnny. It’s like… Billboard. Quick. Cameo. He’s in.” – Mike (63:20)

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WE News & Wrap-up (64:04 – 68:20)

• Quick Headlines:
  • Nintendo lawsuit: Modder must pay $2 million for piracy (65:05).
  • PC Gaming Show Tokyo Direct is set; Moon Mystery release date.
• Super Chat Recap: Pete Hines’ Game Pass criticism sparks requests for a special Kinda Funny interview.
• “Perfect Dark” Canceled: Mike dismisses it as an IP unlikely to be a mass-market hit, sparking playful banter.
• Correction: Fitz writes in to clarify that most PS5 physical games run without Internet (67:45).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “It feels to be less and less. You go into a GameStop nowadays and it’s 90% Funko Pops and then a bunch of, you know, kind of sticky old game cases…” – Mike (17:45)
• “If you don’t figure out how to balance the needs of the service… with the people who are providing the content… then you have a real problem.” – Pete Hines, via Blessing (21:04)
• “As a kid, that is value.” – Blessing on Game Pass’s value for families (26:55)
• “You just want Call of Duty all the time.” – Blessing to Mike, after Mike downplays the loss of Perfect Dark (66:48)
• “We rarely talk about the hundreds of wins…” – Mike on the silent successes of Game Pass (50:12)

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• Marvel Tokon/ArcSys Preview: 00:48 – 03:39
• Letter Lost/PAX West Impressions: 05:18 – 07:09
• PS6 Modular Disc Drive Rumors: 11:40 – 18:52
• Game Pass Debate (Main Section): 18:52 – 50:41
• Wolfenstein Trilogy Discussion: 53:13 – 61:15
• Cyberpunk 2 & Keanu: 61:15 – 63:50
• Quick News (WE News): 64:04 – 65:48
• Closing Banter: 66:16 – 68:20

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Conclusion

This episode is required listening for anyone invested in the present and future of subscription gaming—particularly the complexities of Game Pass for consumers, developers, and the industry at large. Blessing and Mike deftly balance critical insight, community voices, and their signature banter, giving depth to the discussion around digital trends, economic realities, and the hope for creative, mid-tier games to thrive.

Transcript

[A]

Today's stories include a major feature of the PlayStation 6 has been reported. Everybody's chiming in about Xbox game Pass and Wolfenstein's trilogy isn't finished according to machine games of all this and more because this is kind of Funny Games Daily. Yo, what's up? Welcome to Kinda Funny Games daily for Monday, September 8, 2025. I'm one of your hosts, Blessing Adioye Jr. Joining me is the master of hype, Snowbike, Mike.

[B]

Bless. Welcome back. Mitch the Big dog. How you feeling today?

[A]

I'm feeling good. How are you feeling, man?

[B]

Feeling good. It's Monday. We have a little sports moment with Mike because it was a great sports weekend.

[A]

Tell me about it.

[B]

We got to talk about Sports Ball, but first I want to hear about you. How was the big Marvel Tocom fighting game?

[A]

Oh, Mike, Mike, let me tell you, Let me tell you because I did want to talk about it, but I forgot that I wanted to talk about it. That game is special, man. That. So the closed beta happened over the weekend.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think the easiest way to put it is it feels like the return of Dragon Ball Fighters. And I fucking love Dragon Ball Fighters.

[C]

Speaking my language there.

[A]

Yes. I mean it's Arc System Works, right? So they worked on Dragon Ball Fighters. They also do like Guilty Gear and they make so many fighting games.

[C]

They're the fighting game Persona fighting game as well. That also kicked ass.

[A]

I would say, I would probably call them the current fighting game Goats. I don't know if that's crazy to say. Chad, let me know if you, if you disagree. Chat in, super chat in, whatever. But I would say Arc System Works.

[B]

Are the current fighting game goats.

[A]

Fighting game Goats. Of course there's Tekken 8, of course there's Street Fighter 6. And so those would be the arguments there. But I think, I think the amount of games they put out and the amount of quality they put out with each of their games, they just do something special each time. And Marvel Token Fighting Souls feels like it's going to be another special one. It's weird kind of because it's 4v4, which is a lot of characters. They're talking about eight characters per match happening in this game. And also it's per team, one life bar. And so like usually in a tag fighter, if you think like Marvel versus Capcom, when you switch between characters, you're switching between new life bars. Here you got four, four characters you're choosing from, you're tagging in and out, but you all have one life bar. And so if you Wanted. You can just stay with one character the whole time and then like just use the other characters as assist moves and stuff like that. I really like this game. I think it's hard for me to get into like the, you know, deep mechanics and stuff like that because this closed beta was like very condensed. It was for maybe like six to seven hours each time I went live. And it would go down and had like maybe three to four sessions over the weekend. But at first blush, what I'll say, easy pick up and play. There's like an auto combo system that makes it really fun and engaging.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The characters so far I think are awesome. My favorites being Ms. Marvel. I think she's cool. She has a cool move where she'll stretch across the screen and pull herself across the screen. Was really fun. I liked Iron man as well. He's like, I mean, he's projectile city, which is exactly what you want out of an Iron man character. And then Star Lord. It's funny because I'm a Star Lord hater after Infinity War, but I love, I think I just like his character in video games because Marvel rivals Star Lord's fucking sick. And then here as well. I really like Star Lord art style. Fantastic. This is a great presenting game. I think the UI looks great. You look at the screen right now and you see like how all the colors pop. Even at the start of a match. The way the colors kind of fade into the levels. Looks so fucking good. I'm so hyped for this game.

[B]

Like, love that.

[A]

Are you. Is this one that you're looking forward to?

[B]

Have you gotten still high on the 2xko? But I mean, anything Marvel, right, We're going to jump into and this is probably the IP that would get me back into a fighting game that I would try again and like try to dive a little bit deeper than my normal. Here's a couple hours, then put down. So. Yeah, I'm super excited for this blast. And hearing you gush about it gets me even more excited.

[A]

That was a really fun one. Another fun one. Tell me PAX West. I got to go. Let me tell you, we're dying to.

[B]

Hear the stories over here.

[A]

I mean, I don't have many stories per se. What I will say is shout out to everybody who came through and said hi.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, I was there very casually. I was trying to be like a little bit more low key at PAX West. I didn't have any official plans. I was doing like previews and stuff. But like, you know, for the most Part I was there on vacation and to hang out and have a good time. And the amount of people that like, you know, saw me said, what's up, Ms. Portland? Kevin organized a meetup that sadly like I had a preview during and so I couldn't go. But I caught, I was able to catch him afterwards just on the show floor with a group of kind of funny best friends. And they were all so cool and awesome. PAX west is just amazing. If you haven't been. I know it's like such a privilege to be able to go to a video game convention or a video game show like that because like they're happening in major cities, you know, if you're from, if you're from somewhere that does that just doesn't do events like that. It's hard to make it out, which I understand. I'm from Champaign, so I get it. But if you have the privilege to at least once, you know, fly to a Seattle, fly to an SF or an LA or wherever these, a Boston, wherever you can find a convention like this. It's so worth doing, it's so refreshing, it's so fun. And you come across so many different cool vendors, so many cool indie games that like you would not have heard of otherwise, that have booths there where you're like, oh damn, that looks cool. And then you like, you know, wish list the gameplay later and like man, that was something special that I was only able to find on the show floor.

[B]

Such a standout indie and a standout booth. Cuz my favorite are the booths.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I love the presentation. I love how they set them all up. Give me two, give me two superstars.

[A]

I'm going to give you those answers in one. I got to look at my wish lists.

[B]

All right, One big winner.

[A]

Oh, why my wish list aren't loading. Hold on, hold on, hold on. We're going to do it. I got to organize by time. Letter Lost. So Letter Lost was a booth that like was where the, where the Indie Mega booth used to be, which isn't a thing anymore, which really saddens me. But the Indie Mega booth at PAX was this booth that just had all these fucking indie games, right? And they're all so, so cool and dope, but still in that area you can find like a rotation of cool, like smaller titles. Letter Lost had a booth there where you go and a guy comes up to you and he's like, hey, I found this letter for you. You have this, you got this letter in the mail and. And then he hands you an Envelope and you open it and it'll say, like, the envelope will say to the guy with cool hair or to the girl with a cool jacket, or to the person with like a nice smile or whatever, right? And they'll try to find something that fits you specifically. So I think for me, they said a person with a cool jacket because I had a. I had a nice jacket on. They give me the envelope and you open it, and it's like an escape room puzzle. Like, as you're standing there in the booth where, like, you'll read a riddle and. And you realize that you have to like, dial a number and then call it. Call it by figuring out like, the math problem or whatever. And then you call it and they'll give you another riddle that's like something, something. Table legs. Like the one I had had to do with table and legs. And so I'm like, okay, well, what is this? And then I look under the leg of the table, like at the booth, and they had another thing that was like, hey, talk to this person. Right? Like, they'll lead you through this multiple, multiple parts problem that then leads you to wish listing the game and then also joining their discord. But, like, it was a really cool, really creative way to introduce people into this, like, escape room style puzzle solving game, which, you know, I'm all about. And it made me excited. Like, I looked, I watched the trailer for the game and I was like, oh, this looks really cool. And so letter lost was that booth. If you want to. If you want to check out the game, it's on steam. If you want to watch the trailer, I love that.

[B]

Bless.

[A]

How's last week without me?

[B]

Plus, last week of that you was quiet, boring, slow. I had to put up with a lot of Roger in my life, and I wasn't happy about it. So we missed you a lot. We're happy you're back. Now I didn't get to talk magic with anybody as we revealed three or four brand new Spider man cards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With Tim, dude, which they were all very dope. Bless.

[A]

I watched it. I've never had so much FOMO in my life. But also, you and Tim rocked it. Like, I think you guys were actually the right duo to do that.

[B]

We're excited for that. You and I know are excited for Spider man end of the month.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I'm just itching to play some more magic. Everything's been good, bro.

[A]

And listen, I'll say here, I'm going to Magic on Atlanta during, like, like, as they're launching The Spider Man Magic set. I'll be in at Magicon Atlanta. And so if you're out there, say what's up?

[B]

Go see. Bless.

[A]

I don't know if I'm gonna do anything official yet, but, like, I will be there in a work capacity. And so I want to make something happen that seems really fun.

[B]

I love that. Bless. Well, quick little sports moment with Mike. We got to talk about a great weekend. Of course, Weekend one of the NFL football is now officially back. Bless. Let's just run you down some of the highlights. My CU Buffalos get a big win against Delaware State. Bunch of nobodies. Okay. But they played all three quarterbacks. That was kind of lit. Then we move to Mizzou versus Kansas. And all we wanted was Mizzou to win because why Bless. We're keeping eyes on Mizzou all season long to keep Greg engaged in college football. They won big against Kansas. Their rival, Massive W had to have it. Now let's go over to the gridiron. NFL's back. The greatest Sunday night matchup of all time might have gone on last night. Ravens vs. The Buffalo Bills in Buffalo. Final season of the big Ralph Stadium. They're going to say goodbye, move into a stadium, a new stadium next year.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So the final season opener there, down by 14, end of the fourth quarter, you're thinking, oh, it's over. Came back to win in stunning fashion.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

It was the greatest blessing.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

It might have been one of the greatest football games of all time to watch.

[A]

I saw people tweeting about it. I saw like the. It's fun being on. Like, I'm not on sports Twitter or sports Blue sky by any means. But mutuals, who I follow, who I won't even realize are that into sports. I'll see them tweeting. That's how I know there's some crazy happening.

[B]

Some crazy happening. And then finally, big shout out back to now the hardwood. Big shout out to Carmelo Anthony. Melo getting retired into the hall of Fame. Giving a shout out to the mile high city where he started. Denver took a chance on Melo. We love Melo throughout the years. And still mad that he went to go play for New York.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But I love you, Melo. You're the best.

[A]

Can I give you three more things from Pack SL Seattle? I want to hear one. Played Riftbound again. Riftbound is the league of legends card game that they're launching later in the year. I played against one of the developers, made a. Made a schedule. They're like, hey, come through, play it. I played against one of the developers. I won and I'd earned a neat badge. I should have brought the badge in. I earned a little badge that said I beat a death.

[B]

Which badge? Badge you put on a jacket.

[A]

It's like a badge you put on. Put on a jacket. Yeah, that kind of, that kind of thing. Other thing. They had a Red Bull creator lounge. I don't know if you follow like, you know, video game creators that go to PAX or whatever. You probably would have seen them post in there. Red Bull collabed with Peak, the video game collab to have a creator lounge at pax where you would go in if you're like a. Yeah, if you're like media or creator or whatever and you would like order Red Bull cocktails, non alcoholic. And let me tell you, that shit was a blast. They had to put photo ops too with like Peak stuff. It was a fun time. And then lastly, shout out to my sister. I went. So I went to Seattle to visit her because she just had a baby and so like it was, it was really like a vacation situation of being like, yo, let me visit family, let me hang out for the week. And yeah, it was very lovely seeing my sister and her new baby. So shout out. I know she doesn't watch, but I just want to anyway, shout out. Enough about that Mike. Let's talk about today's stories because this is kind of funny Games daily. Each and every weekday we run you through the nerdy news you need to know about live on YouTube, Twitch and on podcast services around the globe. If you love what we do, support us with the kind of funny membership on Patreon, YouTube and now on Spotify and Apple podcasts to get all of our shows ad free, watch us record them live and get a daily exclusive show for a chance to be a part of the show. Some of your thoughts and opinions as YouTube super chats as we go. Housekeeping for you. We're an 11 person business all about live talk shows. So today after kfd you're going to get Gamescast, which is our hollow knight Silksong review so far.

[B]

Dang.

[A]

Because that's a big old game.

[B]

Big old game. We tried to get Andy to beat him one weekend.

[A]

I was convinced he beat it until I talked to Barrett this morning. He was like, dude, no, he beat act one. I'm like, damn, that game's big. The big old game.

[C]

It's real big.

[A]

And then after games cast is the conjuring last rights in review and then the stream is some of that Rainbow six Siege. Is that correct?

[B]

Nick Scarpino's back. It's time for Nick to get on the sticks and play Rainbow six Siege with us. You can come through.

[A]

You might. You might see me on that.

[B]

Okay, Big Dog will be there.

[A]

I want to come through for that. And then if you're a kind of funny member, today's Greg Ways 21 minutes about how you are looking at the future of PC, Xbox and PlayStation handhelds. All wrong. Thank you to our Patreon producers Karl Jacobs, Omega Buster and Delaney the Psalm Twining. Today we're brought to you by Shady Rays and Factor, but we'll tell you about that later. For now, begin with what is and forever will be the Roper Report it's time for some News. We have six stories today, Baker's Dozen starting with our number one. It's a report the PlayStation 6 will go modular with optional disc drive. This is Darren Bothis at GameSpot. The PlayStation 5 turns five years old in November and talk about the yet to be announced PS6 has begun picking up lately. One idea that the proposed successor console could reportedly adopt from the current PlayStation hardware generation is a detachable disk drive. According to Insider gaming, having a detachable disk drive will allow Sony to reduce production and shipping costs of the PS6. This is also seen as a way to protect the company during uncertain times, likely a reference to ongoing turbulence in the market brought on by US President Donald Trump's tariffs. Essentially, this will allow consumers to choose between either a PS6 with a disk drive, a more traditional option, or a cheaper digital model that they can later upgrade with the add on. In comparison, the PS5 console first launched with either a built in disk drive or an all digital model, and people who bought the more affordable console had no option for upgrading at the time with an add on accessory. This changed when the slimmer PS5 console revision was introduced in and last year's launch of the PS5 Pro did not include a disk drive at all, although one can still be attached to it. Several years into the current console generation, hardware has only gotten more expensive over time. In Europe, the PS5 Digital Edition has reportedly been hit with shrinkflation as the internal SSD is being reduced from 1 TB to 825 gigs. Earlier this year, Sony announced price increases for digital and standard edition PS5 consoles across Europe, the UK, Australia and New Zealand. And an August the price of all PS5 console models in the US increased by $50 due to a Challenge due to a challenging economic environment. Sony said at the time. One other thing that we do know about Sony's next console is that the company will continue to rely on hardware over cloud technology. Back in June, Sony President and CEO Hideaki Nishino said that while cloud gaming continues to progress, consumers still prefer the local execution of games that comes from physical media or content downloaded directly to the console itself. Mike, what do you feel or how do you. What do you think about this disk drive situation?

[B]

Yeah, bless. This is a fun conversation to have here in 2025 and beyond because there is a clear divide of people who still hold on to the disc drive and want to be able to put in physical media. And then there are those who have moved on and just doing straight up digital. I, as someone who is doing digital only really like this option. I agree with this option of, hey, give me the option to buy the external hard drive if I need to and be able to have the disk player there if I want to. If not, I would prefer cheaper route. I don't want to pay for something I'm not going to use. And so it's a fun one because our audience in particular really holds on to that physical media.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And is all about being able to have that and not going the full digital route yet. Of course we talk about that with licensing and, and true ownership if you really have it or not. But right now when I read all that, I love that there's an option for both. Right. Hey, there's the idea of in uncertain times we want to be able to give you the cheapest option. Cheapest option for us as well. But if you still want that, we'll sell you an external, external disk drive.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean the article attributes it to uncertain times and the tariffs, which I think are true and exacerbate the situation. I would have assumed this would have been the case either way with or without the tariffs. That just feels like where everything's moving, especially with I think the push from PlayStation and I think the wider audience wanting or at least like the wider audience being more digital. You know, you mentioned our audience being physical and I think that makes sense. I think the more hardcore audience of gamers and the older audience of gamers. No offense our audience, but like, you know, I think that consists of people that want to hold onto that physical. Yeah, rightfully so. Also like physical is fucking awesome. When I was in Seattle, I went to all the Pink Gorillas. There's three Pink Gorilla stores in Seattle which are these retro game stores. And there's something just special about holding, like, a cartridge or holding a disc, even the PS5 ones. Like, I'm looking through and I'm seeing certain PS5 games on disk, and I'm like, dude, this. There's never anything like this, right? Like, there's something just special about getting to, like, read the box and, like, hold the game and do all that shit. But also, I think as time goes, we're becoming more and more of a niche, slash, older audience that does things like that. I think the younger audience, especially like a younger audience of growing PC players even, are just becoming more digital. And so I think for PlayStation and I'm sure more hardware companies, right? Like, the conversation then becomes, all right, how do we make this make sense as far as manufacturing costs and then also cost for the consumer, especially with the tariffs, especially with how things have gone down as far as the factors we have to consider for pricing hardware? I think this makes complete sense.

[B]

Exactly. But I think this is the way of the future. We'll see this with Xbox and Microsoft. We'll talk about this. Of course, Switch has their own options and what they're still doing with their game cartridges, so there's still a physical media market out there. I would love to see the percentage of how many people are actually buying physical media and plugging it into their console, because it feels to be less and less. You go into a GameStop nowadays and it's 90% Funko Pops and then a bunch of, you know, kind of sticky old game cases that you don't really want to bring home with you. So why are they sticky? They're sticky in there, man.

[A]

You know why they're sticky.

[B]

And then on top of that, it's like a lot of special editions for games are now just coming with a digital download code. And as well, it's.

[A]

Which is so whack, by the way. Yeah, I hate that. It's a. It's a collector's edition. Give me the disc in there.

[B]

I'm doing. Yeah. And most of the time now, the disc is just a licensing, where you just plug it in. It downloads the day one patch, or it's just the code, essentially, and you're still downloading the game or you still need Internet to use it. So a lot of these physical media things that we used to love are not the same anymore.

[A]

Yeah. Well, Mike, as physical is dying, we got to have more conversations about Xbox Game Pass. Let's move on to story number two. Xbox Game Pass once again is in the firing line. After Former Microsoft executive says it creates weird inner tensions this is Wesley Yenpool at IGN and this comes to the Super Chat question. Where do you stand on Xbox Game Pass and why? We're going to get into a deeper conversation here. It is one that I'm I think I'm most curious on the audience and your input, Mike. Like I have opinions, but also like I also don't have opinions on this. At the same time, my opinions I feel like are basic compared to what you or the audience might have here. So tell me in the Super Chats, where do you stand on Xbox Game Pass and why? Hot on the heels of former former Bethesda executive Pete Hines questioning Xbox Game Pass as a business strategy, a former Microsoft executive has backed the comments, insisting Microsoft's description service creates weird inner tensions. Last week, Bethesda Softworks former Senior Vice President of of Global Marketing Communications Pete Hines said gaming subscription services like Xbox Game Pass are worth jack shit if the game developers who create content for them are not properly supported subscriptions Quote Subscriptions have become the new four letter word, right? You can't buy a product anymore, heinz said. When you talk about a subscription that relies on content, if you don't figure out how if you don't figure out how to balance the needs of the service and the people running the service with the people who are providing the content, who without which your subscription is worth jack shit, then you have a real problem. End quote over on LinkedIn, former PlayStation exec Sean Layden expressed support for Hines comments, saying quote hits hits this nail right on the head. Quote the question is not is the service profitable for the platform? Layden, a vocal critic of video game subscription services, added, is it healthy and helpful for the developer is what we need to ask. End quote Lane's comment prompted a comment from former Xbox Game Studios VP Shannon Loftus, and this is spotted by Tweet Town, who provided some insight that benefits from coming from coming from a former Microsoft employee. Loftus, who retired from Microsoft in 2022 after 29 years at the company, served as a as a manager on several Xbox projects including Fable, Viva Pinata, Benjamin Zooey and Age of Empires. Quote As a longtime first party Xbox developer, I can attest that Pete is correct, loftus said. While Game Pass can claim a few victories with games that otherwise would have sunk beneath the waves Human Fall Flat, for example. The majority of game adoption on Game Pass comes at the expense of retail revenue unless the game is engineered from the ground up for post release monetization. I could and may Someday write pages on the weird inner tensions this creates. End quote. The suggestion Game Pass comes at the expense of retail revenue is a long standing criticism of the subscription service, one Microsoft was forced to admit in 2023. There's been much debate recently over the profitability of Xbox Game Pass, which Microsoft itself itself has said makes money even when factoring in the development cost of the games that launch within it and the lost sales of first party games, which people no longer need to pay individually for. Regardless, Xbox Game Pass remains a huge profit driver for Microsoft, which said in June that the subscription service had reached a new annual record of nearly $5 billion in revenue for the first time following the launches of the Elder Scrolls Online. Oblivion, or not Online, Just the Elder Scrolls, Oblivion Remastered, Doom, the Dark Ages and Indiana Jones and the Great Circle. So, Mike, there's a lot there. There's a lot comments from three former executives. Big names, big names. Where do you want to start here?

[B]

I mean, you know, I'm a consumer, so I like the consumer side, but I do really love hearing Pete Hines chime in on this. And then of course the follow up with the other two was like, this is definitely the information you want to hear. And those are the people who would know it very, very well. Bless. Of course there's a developer side, there's a Microsoft business side. So I think there's three here. Consumer developer, Microsoft business. Yeah, you pick what you want to start with on that.

[A]

I think the easiest place is the consumer because I genuinely, I know it's a, it's a phrase that gets thrown around in the Internet often and I think you hear on podcast and all stuff, right, talking about Xbox is the best deal in gaming. And like obviously things have shifted as far as pricing tiers and all that shit. But I think it still stands that this year you look at Xbox Game Pass and what we've gotten Expedition 33 on there, you got Hollow Knight, Silksong that launched on there, you got, oh.

[B]

There was another game, Ninja gaiden, Black Ninja Garden 4 will both be on that as well.

[A]

Like, I think the deal stands there as far as the bang for your buck. And I think in a, in an industry that is becoming more and more expensive, where games have moved up to 70 and are in the process of trying to move up to $80, I think when we're seeing tariffs and hardware costs become even more, you need to find ways to allow consumers to afford getting into this hobby that they love. Right. And I think game on a consumer side, specific consumer side Game Pass is an avenue for that. I think Game Pass is a value for consumers. Even still to this point. Is it going to be like that forever? Probably not. We'll see. But that's my take on the consumer.

[B]

Side, I agree with you. Bless. Of course, as prices continues to, to rise on the sub side of things, we'll have that conversation when is it too much? But on the consumer side of things, right now, in my eyes, it's still a major win, right, Bless. This is something that is. It's a subscription. You can turn it on, you can turn it off whenever it appeases you, whenever you want to jump into it. But when you look at it, right, having a catalog of a hundred plus games and really it's like two to three hundred plus games at your fingertips at any moment. To jump into saving you $70 on every first party title from Xbox and Microsoft, from really talented developers like of course we talk about ID Softworks or ID Software. With Doom the Dark Ages this year, it's like, yeah, that's saving me a ton of money when I could be spending $70 a pop on all of these titles. I get to jump into first party Xbox games with no thought. The partnership side of things I absolutely love. I continue to beat the drum. I of the EA Play Partnership where you get 10 hours of free play on every EA title that's released, right? So that means if you don't want to spend $70 on Madden, you can play your 10 hours, have your fill and never go back. NCAA or college football, NHL, all the list goes on. And even more EA titles, right? And so the Riot partnership where you get all the League of Legends champions for free, you get all the agents for free when you play Valorant as well. There's just so much that gets bundled into this subscription service on the consumer side that is not hard to love, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The idea of the Netflix of video games where I can sit on the couch and scroll for hours and look at games and go, I would never play that. I'd maybe play that. I'd never play that and have the option of like I'm stuck in a hole because I can't stop looking at games or having the moment of I'm clicking on games that I probably never play and, and jump right in. Having my friends be able to play these multiplayer games that we know you're probably going to spend one to three nights with and never go back to, saved me the 20 to $60 any day of the week on those, right? Like that is the major wins here on the consumer side that it's hard to be like. It's hard to listen and be like, the consumer side is bad because it seems like a major win for.

[A]

A couple years ago, I bought my nephew an Xbox One S for Christmas. And then like the next Christmas I travel down to hang out with them, right? And like they had played games that I would even think, right? Like, you know, this kid is playing not split fiction, it takes two. And I'm like, oh. And he's playing it off Game Pass. And I'm like, dang, like, I wouldn't even thought to about you. It takes you. But that makes sense for you and your brother to be playing this and you're able to discover that via Game Pass, let alone just a catalog of games were able to dive into and go, oh, my friends talk about this at school. Let's play that. That's something I would have killed for as a kid. You know, like, that is value.

[B]

The consumer side is nothing but positive. As of right now, when the price starts to go up, you can have that conversation of when is enough. But cloud gaming, PC gaming on the console gaming, this whole ecosystem and where we're at right now, with an Xbox handheld coming in, Xbox making a big push on PC and of course on the console, it's hard not to say it's still one of the.

[A]

If not a consumer friendly. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Subscription servicing gaming.

[A]

So where do you want to go from here?

[B]

Now let's talk about the. I mean, I think the fun one is the developer. So let's talk about Xbox first.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the developer is the 5050. You could be on either side of this. So let's talk about Xbox.

[A]

So, okay, here's my thing. Xbox. I have very big critiques of Xbox. Game Pass isn't one of them. Right. Like, if I'm thinking about two major critiques, one of my critiques is more so about Microsoft as a company. Not really Xbox. It's more so how they veered so heavily into AI, which I get. I don't want to act like AI inherently is a bad thing on the technology side, because I don't think it is. Right. But I think there are things involving generative AI and there are things about the BDS list and stuff like that where it's like, okay, there are things that are fucking bad about how Microsoft is operating. And I think some of that stuff affects Xbox on the side of like that then raining down on the other thing that I take as a big critique, which is how they have managed some of their publishing partnerships to the point where I'm looking at them, like, why would I believe you when you announce a partnership with Kojima to put out a game? Right? Like, I. I think that stuff is more of where I take issue with on the Xbox side of Game Pass, though. Like, I look at that and I'm like, well, that seems like it makes sense to me as far as. Like, as far as why this is the strategy, as far as why Game Pass is the strategy.

[B]

Microsoft, the trillion dollar company, Xbox being the gaming division of this, it seems like Game Pass is the win of it. All right? We're talking about a console and team that was in third place, needed something to buck what was going on in that and change their trajectory. And this was one of those small pillars that they can say that was a win. That started to get us in the good graces of gamers, that started to get more people on our side. Now, is it millions upon millions like maybe we all hoped it would be, and it really changed it? No, of course not. But it had a strong consumer base of from what, 2016. When did this start? Bear? I'm sure, 2016, 2017, you saw nothing but small wins on the Xbox as a whole side of saying, hey, more gamers are coming in. They always love to tout hey. Instead of saying sales numbers, now we can say, hey, 3 million players jumped into grounded and tried this on weekend. 130 million players played this over the course of its lifespan. Right. And that gets you in the news. It gets you having a nice little positive news cycle. I don't see anything on the Xbox side of Microsoft side that is a major negative from Game Pass because it is a trillion dollar company that can do all this stuff, right.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Now we get to the developers. There's the good and the bad.

[A]

Yes. I think that's where things get weird. Yes.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nick Scarpino has things to say about Xbox Game Pass.

[B]

I missed you.

[A]

Oh, he's dapping up Mike. He's just here to dab up Mike.

[B]

We missed you.

[A]

We were out of town at the same time. I forgot you were gone.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, Nick is back.

[B]

Everybody's back, bro. We missed him.

[A]

Nick. I'm gonna play rainbow six siege with y' all later. Hell, yeah. It's good. It's gonna be a good time.

[B]

You're my dude. All right. The developers is really what gets what gets the good and the bad and.

[A]

The part of Pete Hines quote that I Lock in on is where he says, oh, where is it? He says it's worth jack shit if the game developers who create content for them are not properly supported. And I think the not properly supported part is the important thing because I. There's no, like, there's no lever you can pull on the business side of things, on the financial side of things. That's going to be the. Oh, this lever is the objectively good lever. Hey, any game launching on Game Pass is going to be successful or going to be, you know, is going to do what it needs to do. I think as a game you have to look at what your aim is, what your audience is, what your, like, even your launch strategy on other platforms or your marketing strategies on other platforms and look at all of it as an amalgamation. How much is Microsoft slash, Xbox, you know, paying you to have your game on Game Pass? Is that going to serve your game well? Like, I don't think I'm on a double side thing, right. Where I think part of it has to be on the developer to know and understand what game they're making. And if that, if Game Pass is going to serve their game well. And then of course Microsoft needs to help usher them through that. Right. It's like, I think you need a team that has the experience, which I'm sure they have. I would assume they have. Right. A team that has the experience. Then talk to developers to be like, hey, is this a good deal for you? Yeah, like, is this it? Does Game Pass suit your game?

[B]

It's an interesting one because it seems like from everything they've ever spoke about, they've added all the initiatives to help people who are signing up for the ID @Xbox program or getting in on Game Pass to have these avenues of like, hey, we're here to support you. But yes, as a game developer, you should probably know what you're coming into and what you really expect. Because I think on the outside we all look at it, it's like, well, Microsoft just gave you X amount of dollars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now like, do with it what you will. Right. So what more do you need to succeed? And you should know that. So you can either say, tap them on the shoulder and say, hey, we need X, Y and Z as well to make sure we're there and ready to rock and roll. Right. Because we talk about this, you have now given up the upfront sales cost of this game, so you're not getting that revenue. Because we were hoping that Game Pass would supplement that in some way, shape or form. And so are you a living, breathing live service game where you should have monetization techniques ready to rock and roll and be ready for that, or is it, hey, this game is a one and done. We're going to put this out and hopefully the money from Microsoft has paid and you know, got us ready for a sequel. We or Nintendo Switch PlayStation will have that upfront cost where that can pay for the sequel. This got us through development X, Y.

[A]

And Z. Yeah, I want to bring in some super chats because a lot of people are running in with their opinions. David N. Writes in and says, isn't Game Pass only a short term consumer win though if it starts to fundamentally change how games are made and potentially change the DNA of acclaimed studios we love?

[B]

That's an interesting one. I mean are they changing the way that games are made? Right. Like you have to.

[A]

For me, that's the big question.

[B]

Yeah, I mean that's a, it's a statement to say that and say like games are being fundamentally changed but like are they Doom? The Dark Ages just came out a single player first person shooter that had no glitz and glamour of a multiplayer or anything different about it. It was just a straight up, here's a 10 to 12 hour campaign you played and enjoy.

[A]

I, I would want examples because I think the examples I think of, of where Xbox has fallen short, which let me tell you, I can list them. I don't look at Game Pass as being the issue. I look at Xbox management as being the issue, if I'm being frank. Right. Like when I look at Tango gameworks and them shuttering and then coming back under a different company. I don't look at that game launching on Game Pass as the issue. Unless there are reports out there that like really lay out like oh hey, no, this is where things get went wrong. I more so look at acquisition and just how Xbox as a company and their management has failed that, failed that studio and how a lot of their publishing initiatives for like these third party things, whether we're talking about John Romero's game or if we're talking about I guess just the list of games that they, that that have fallen through. I look at that more as a management thing. I look at redfall as more of a management thing. I don't see these as Game Pass failures, more so just Xbox failures.

[B]

Yeah, it's an interesting one. You bring up that right of like Tango gameworks, a team known for its horror games. Right. We don't know what happened behind the scenes, but was it because of Xbox funding and being purchased that they were, they were able to have enough funding, time, resources to make hi Fi Rush. Right. Would this be a team that would have just been stuck on the cycle of fighting for anything they could get off of just the evil within?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, are we able to get hi Fi Rush without this Xbox purchase? We don't know unless we do the research and ask the teams. Right. But you would hope that they were able to help them now afterwards. Right? A major fumble there that. I mean, we're talking about a great game, a great team. I don't know why you wouldn't keep that. Redfall. We've seen plenty of games come and be absolutely disastrous and bad. Right. And of course Phil Spencer came on the X cast and talked about we have to have better oversight. And that's one of those where you scratch your head of like you guys have been in the game for almost three decades. Like there's no way you don't have oversight. Where did it fall through the cracks? Right. And is that one of those of like, just get it out, let's get this over with or are they avoiding the hey, let's get to 90% and cancel this. Like we've seen other games recently, hey, let's make this partnership because we were riding the high off of COVID and now we're back and we're getting back to reality of more people are back at home or they're outside now and they're not playing as many games. That partnership we had, this game that you were making, it doesn't look like it's going to make it or it needs extra funding that we don't want to continue to put in. Let's cancel that now. Right. So there's been a lot of that lately for sure.

[A]

I want to bring in another one from Jordan White who writes in and says besides venturing out into new genres of games, I played most of this year's Game of the Year contenders through Game Pass. So that's their, their, their chime in there. I see Weiner says my six year old plays so many games in Game Pass but now thinks every game on Xbox is free. That's the thing is like I think there's a conversation to be had that's like I think a bit too on the anecdotal side. But like I'm willing to hear this conversation and like I. There are parts of this that I see as far as how Xbox Game Pass changes the perception of the value of video games. I think there's conversation there Right. And I think that's, it's weird and tough and kind of messy because I also think there's. You throw free to play in that. You know, they're talking about how their, their six year old, right. Plays so many games and they think that games are free. I think about the amount of free to play games that people that are older than 6, right. Have like grown up with that. They're probably like, well, why would I buy a video game when I wouldn't Fortnite, the, you know, my favorite game ever as somebody who's probably 18, 20, you know, 22, whatever it is, right. Like when that's something I play for free. When I'm looking at, you know, the amount of free to play games that I spent all my time playing with friends, I think there's a big conversation there as far as value. I mean, we're looking past Roblox and.

[B]

Fortnite that have dominated the gaming land space for almost a decade now, right? And like, is it on Xbox saying, hey, developers do this, or is it also developers looking at themselves saying, well, this is the biggest trend in gaming. This is what the Gen Alpha is growing up with.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And they're becoming older now as they turn into teenagers and young adults. Right. Should we be going after that audience? Right. We see Pete come out for $4 and does gangbusters. Right. So yeah, there's a new way of thinking and looking at video games for sure. From all aspects.

[A]

Yes. Aaron Lime writes in and says, could game prices be rising in part because of lost sales due to subservices? Are publishers making things inconvenient, chasing passive income? I mean, this kind of, kind of comes off to. Comes off of what we were just talking about there. I do think that there is a conversation to be had about exploring the scale of pricing. You know, I saw people were making a big deal over silksong being $20 this last week. I've been gone. So I'm, I'm late to all the, all the discourse stuff. Right. But you know, I, it's complicated and tough, right? And it comes down to, you know, your, your wallet is your wallet, right? You gotta spend money in the way that you can spend money, which means that some things are gonna be more expensive and some things are gonna be. In some games, like a Silksong may be more accessible because they're Silksong, right? And they're able to do that and be like, yo, we're no, we're going to sell this game at, at $20 peak. Is going to be more accessible to me. Game Pass is going to be how I play games. Right. I think that then puts the, the, puts the thing more or puts the pressure more on the companies that are pricing their game at $80 or $70, then look at themselves and go, hey, is this really an $80 game? Is Outer Worlds 2 really an $80 video game? Or do we need to lower the price of this a little bit? Hey, is Mario Kart's not a great example? Because they stood on that $80 and listen, turns out they'll get them sales either way. So Mario Kart might be the example of like, hey, you can launch this $80. They're going to piss people off, but you can do it. But I think you're going to have to see publishers explore that, that scale more. And I think that's just part of a changing, slash maturing industry. As far as, you know, how you're looking at the value of video games and what you had to do for pricing to get people in the door. I think that's just the challenge. I'll bring in one more. A lot of people wrote in about this. Thank you so much for gameplay. Davinster writes in and says, I love Game Pass. I treated the same way as Movie Pass years ago before they went out of business. Outside of a discussion point, I never understood consumers being mad about Game Pass. Barrett, I saw you pop up for a second. I don't. I'm not familiar with MoviePass. Is that a thing that MoviePass was.

[C]

I believe, a list before it was called a list. And it was like, yeah, that was like the thing we were obsessed with back in like 2019. But that like quickly kind of fell off of a cliff just because of how unsustainable that business model is. Sorry, I was going to put my camera on, but I froze. Yeah, there was another super chat I want to try to find as well that talked about the, just like the sustainability of it. And I think, you know, Game Pass is a unique thing where it's, you know, under Xbox, this is under Microsoft. So it has kind of this foundation that it can kind of settle on and take time to kind of figure out if that model works or not. Whereas, like, I forget if MoviePass was, if that was like owned by like a larger, like company or whatever, but that was definitely one that felt like too good to be true. Who was it who wrote in? Taven wrote in, says it feels like Game Pass benefits the mid range level of game the most. And in an era where the mid range doesn't really exist anymore. It's crippling to the AAA model. Things like Expedition 33 being the best mid range example. And I think that's, you know, a lot of people in chatter are saying like, well, Game Pass is obvious, obviously successful because indie devs go with Game Pass and all that stuff. And I think yes, for smaller teams who would like a guaranteed, like we're going to make this amount of money because we sign with Game Pass, like that is good for them. But in terms of like the long term structure of Game Pass, specifically Game Pass plus how big Xbox has ballooned in the last few years is what I specifically worry about of can it be successful enough to actually offset, you know, whatever. People aren't paying full price for all of these games that are under Activision and Bethesda and Xbox and all this stuff because we continue to see teams shut down, games canceled. And that is my particular worry when it comes to, to Game Pass now. Just because I think like maybe it is a solid foundation, maybe it is a solid business model. I think the weight that it is now under, especially in the last few years is a little concerning and that.

[A]

I do agree with. I think when we talk about like the different aspects of the consumers, the developers and Xbox, I think you can make the case that like each of those are positive things. I, for me it's the forecast of Xbox Game Pass five years from now, ten years from now. Is it sustainable? What does Xbox slash Microsoft as a corporation that is functioning around Game Pass. What does that look like long term? I genuinely, I am so worried about that. I think that comes, but I think that comes back to just how Xbox has been functioning in the last, I mean I could say decade. Right. But I think seeing accelerated since the acquisition of Activision Blizzard where yeah, it does feel like they're having to tighten up a lot because of Call of Duty because you have to like there's the scrutiny from the Microsoft side. Right. But then also, yeah, I think there's so many financials that go into that that you have to look at and be like, is game path, like is this sustainable for us? I. I don't know. Like, I know they say yes, I just don't know how.

[B]

Now the interesting one would be is it gotten stronger though, right. With the acquisition of Activision Blizzard King and Call of Duty now on your side. Right. And that game already having the monetization back end, being so strong and being a juggernaut. Right. What is the Xbox audience as we always have all these conversations about game sales is like we don't even worry about the Xbox numbers because it's so small, right? Is that audience so small that it doesn't matter giving them that on Game Pass because you know they're going to spend X, Y and Z on of course, in games, cosmetics. But now on the flip side, having the full price still out there with Switch and PlayStation still being one of the best selling games of the year each and every year, right? Does that slow down? It's only gotten stronger with that in my mind, World of Warcraft now being underneath your banner, right? You're trimming the fat of like we've seen plenty of teams and of course developers and publishers do this, of hey, I have X, Y and Z. I know that the pillars are this, this and that. The other ones aren't really big money generators and I either keep them for the boutique game experience, that mid tier game pass compliments, or hey, you're not really in this now in 2025, that's when they're going to cut what makes.

[A]

You feel like it's stronger.

[B]

I think Call of Duty is instantly stronger. I think World of Warcraft makes it stronger, right? Like thinking about Bethesda and those titles from their mainline groups are making it stronger. A better compliment for you to want to stay subscribed to the service, right? We have a fable coming out next year. You have a Halo gears, right? These are all major compliments. And now the idea of hey, this is going on to our mainstay that will hopefully have you next year going, should I be buying an Xbox? Should I be playing on PC and just subscribing? Because now over on PlayStation they're selling all these games at full price that they haven't been doing. So you would think that's going to be adding in the revenue over there to maybe cover the Xbox side of things or start to finally entice gamers of like, hey, these games that you like over here, maybe you jump ship, which we know very difficult. PlayStation has incredible titles, has the solid hardware. Gamers aren't doing that. But it's only been one generation, right? Let's go down one, two more generations and see if that starts to turn. Because that's clearly what they're betting on, right? Of like eventually people will either turn or they'll just keep paying full price and hopefully that's covering the margins that they want. But there's no way you can look at Xbox when they started Game pass to now and not think that they're stronger because of those acquisitions.

[A]

See, for me, I look around and I. Maybe it's how you define stronger, right? Because I look around this year and last year, and I, I look at the layoffs and I look at the studio closures and I, like, my reaction is like, no, it doesn't feel stronger. Like, I look at the cancellations and I'm like, no, shit. Seems like it's falling apart. And like, maybe this is just the turbulence you get through so you can get to the other side. And now you're. You're flourishing. But as of right now, like, as.

[B]

Of 2025, you can't say it's weaker in 20. 2016. That was built off the back of Sea of Thieves, Gears of War, and Halo and Forza.

[C]

I think there's a difference between.

[A]

A.

[C]

Weak vision, which is what it was in 2016, and an absolute ballooning of how much you own. And I think there's a. A distinct difference between those two things and the worries that that second one has.

[B]

Well, I think that we're seeing them start to cut the things that they have purchased that were added into all of that. Get out of, like, here's the things I wanted on this entree. Right. I didn't. I didn't want the green beans. So. See, a tango game works. Oh, I didn't want the mashed potatoes. Just gotta go. I'm here for the steak. And that's Call of Duty. That is the best Bethesda mainstays here.

[A]

Yeah. And I guess, like, if we're. The conversation is a Game Pass conversation that I think I do agree as far as, like, yeah, no, this year for Game Pass has been the. I don't. I don't know if I can say the strongest, but it's been a very fucking strong year for me.

[B]

Past five years has been their strongest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you look at it, partnerships, first party titles.

[A]

Yeah. I think Game Pass is growing and getting stronger. It's the Xbox ecosystem specifically, like, the studios and the games where I'm like, you know, I'm just seeing a lot of cancellations and I'm seeing a lot of things that makes me go, why would I trust this corporation to, like, give me. To, like, give me the fable that I want? When you just cancel the perfect dark game that you've been telling me about for forever now that you showed me trailers for? Right. Like, why do I have the trust they're going to give me the, like, the Kojima game and you just canceled multiple other, like, third party IP Stuff that you were publishing. Right. Like I think those are the things that I worry about. But also, yeah, like I think if you're talking about the Game Pass output, it's been good, it's been fantastic.

[B]

Well, we can't trust any corporation. We have to trust the developers, the hard working men and women out there. Yeah.

[A]

But we believe in keeping the developers from doing it.

[B]

But like Playground has a great proven track record of delivering on Forza Horizon and Forza titles. We're hoping that they can deliver a Fable game. Right. And it's like PlayStation is the exact same way. They're canceling games, canceling studios is the same way. It's like all these corporations are doing that. It's fun when we have this Game Pass conversation. Right. And how great it seems to be. But like PlayStation still dominant. PlayStation still has the games that gamers want and still seems to be doing the traditional route and doesn't need to do anything else. It's still winning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like that's the wild thing to say. So we could have a 40 minute conversation about how great Game Pass is and none of that matters because we still want to be on PlayStation and play their games.

[A]

I'll bring in, we got to move on but I'll bring in a couple more super chats because a lot of y' all are riding in. Jordan White says, but do you believe we would have gotten games like South Midnight Keeper and Pentiment without Game Pass? I feel like it allows developers to make smaller games and not expect every game to be a new, a new huge franchise for me that's the dream of Game Pass for me. There was the one we talked about earlier as far as the like the mid range games and I think I saw somebody mention like Clear Obscure was the like was the one. Right. But like, yeah, no, I look at south of Midnight as being one of those where you can put out a solid, you know, eight out of 10, like seven hour, eight hour video game and have it exist in this new ecosystem. Right. Because it's not about south of midnight selling 10 million copies. It's about south of Midnight being something that keeps the audience engaged and keeps the audience wanting to subscribe to Game Pass. Right. And having that on top of a Keeper on top of a pentiment. Right. Like for me that's the dream of Game Pass and I want to see that flourish because then yeah, you can have the Call of Duties come through as the most AAA of AAA things. You can have a doom, the Dark Ages come through as A AAA thing. Right.

[B]

Carry those. Yeah.

[A]

And carry those while you have these mid range things that can be quality, unique and the kind of games that I love the most.

[B]

We usually only talk about the negatives, right? There's probably 100 stories of indie devs, mid tier games or even first party studios that were able to, thanks to game pass, make a game that probably wouldn't have been selling well or find an audience without the game pass thing. Right. And we only kind of talk about the news of the negatives and the highlights. We don't. We rarely talk about the hundreds of wins that I'm sure they've had over the 10 years doing this.

[A]

Mike, we're gonna move on to story number three. But before we do, I want to tell you about patreon.com kind of funny and YouTube.com kind of funny games where you can go and get the kind of Funny membership which allows you to get shows ad free. Speaking of ads, let us tell you about our sponsors.

[D]

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[A]

And we're back. And Mike, we're not. We're not done talking about Xbox.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Story number three, Machine Games says Wolfenstein is a trilogy that isn't yet finished this is Chris Scolion at Video Games Chronicle. The studio head of Machine Games says it's not yet finished with the Wolfenstein story and would like to make another entry in the series. The Swedish studio recently developed Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, but before that it was mainly focused on the Wolfenstein series of first person shooters. This included two main entries, Wolfenstein the New Order and Wolfenstein 2 the New Colossus, as well as a prequel, a spin off and a VR experience. However, in the latest installment of a noclip documentary series about the history of Machine Games and co founder and studio head jerk Gustafson. No Gustafson. There we go. Said the studio always planned a main trilogy of games, meaning a third title remains underdeveloped or sorry, undeveloped. Quote I'm tired today. I apologize. Quote the first game is very much about protagonist BJ and how obviously he understands that the Nazis have won the war, but it's also a very personal journey for him. But at the same time he meets Anya, he starts to see that there are other things at play as well. Not only fighting Nazis and then moving into New Colossus. Then we move into a wider group of people around you being part of the Resistance, something bigger and something also like a family to you, but at the same time you're also preparing to start maybe your own family. I think this is important to say because we, we have always seen this as a trilogy. So that journey for BJ is even during those first weeks at ID Software when we mapped out New Order, we still had the plan for at least that character. What will happen in the second one? What will happen in the third one? I think that's important to say because at least I hope that we're not done with Wolfenstein yet. We have a story to tell, end quote. How does that make you feel, Mike?

[B]

Feels great, of course. First, shout out to noclip and Danny O'Dwyer and his team over there. Great stuff going on over there. Two parts of the videos out now. It's a three parter. Go watch it. It's been a ton of fun. Also, we love.

[A]

No, I mean, no clip that. They do great work.

[B]

Yeah. So go watch that stuff now. On the Wolfenstein side, of course, if you watched X Cast, me and Bear would scream from the top of our lungs how much we wanted Wolfenstein over Indy, right?

[C]

No, Mike, they made you scream from the rooftops. What?

[A]

Indeed.

[B]

We have to have it. And so, yeah, of course there was a trilogy, I'm sure, in that. And it's been fun to watch Doom and Wolfenstein come back into the, you know, zeitgeist. The fun of it all nowadays of like, how cool is this? But like, I'm sure after Youngbloods, I'm sure after getting Todd Howard coming to the studio going, I want to make an Indiana Jones game. I have a vision. It's probably like, okay, well, like, let's put BJ on hold for a little bit. Let's go see this journey through, see where it will take us. You never know. Indie seems to have gotten positive reception. It seems to have done well thanks to Game Pass. I'm sure we'll probably get a, an indie too, because you usually don't mess around when you have these kind of IP licensing opportunities of like, if you have a big name, you probably go chase that for the time being until it's time to say, hey, you know what? Indy 23 maybe didn't meet our marks or the, the audience is burnt out. We're ready for a Wolfenstein number three. Or hey, this is so popular, we can spin up a second team. Let's go do this. But on the Wolfenstein side, if you're like me and Baird, of course you want more Wolfenstein. Put me in there. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

You love Wolfenstein as well.

[B]

But blessing in there.

[A]

Wolf Sign 2 is like one of the best.

[B]

You want number three with us?

[A]

That's like one of the best FPS campaigns. And no, I, I played Youngbloods. I hated Young Bloods. I was, I, I loved Wolfenstein 2 so much that it made me hate Young Bloods with a passion. Why was that game like that?

[B]

Well, we took a hard left turn.

[A]

Such a hard left turn. No, I'm team with you. Where I like, I would have preferred a Wolfenstein 3 over Indiana Jones. And even now after playing Indiana Jones and liking Indiana Jones, I still would have preferred Wolfenstein 3 over Indiana Jones. Like that game I think is. Underrated isn't the word because I think people do give it as flowers. But I think just for how good that narrative is, how good those cutscenes are, how good the character work is, I think we don't return back to it enough. We don't talk about it enough. You know, I feel like that's one, that's one that should be in the conversation for like best video game stories of the last decade or best video game like narrative campaigns of the last decade. I fucking love that.

[C]

Both of them as well. Like they're, they're both fantastic. And like I hope they get back to Wolfenstein 3. I hope they don't hold their punches for a third Wolfenstein. Especially being on the other side of an Indiana Jones game. That's I would say a bit more, I mean obviously like kind of toned down, less aggressive to the Nazis.

[A]

Aggressive. Still aggressive aggressive but also just.

[C]

But more cutting commentary as well. Like Indiana Jones does it in a very like good, solid, safe way where the first two Wolfenstein games like make some really hard hitting commentary that I think hopefully kind of made people think about this kind of stuff a bit deeper. And so I hope they don't hold back on a third Wolfenstein after being a decade plus away at that point because it sounds like they have a story they want to tell, but it doesn't sound like that story is being currently developed. With this conversation, I just want to shout out once again Peter Spitz, Deck Spatek, who made a video saying they couldn't make this game today. Talking about Wolven signed 1 and 2 where Bethesda was at as a, as a company and where they're at now kind of post Indiana Jones. This is a fantastic video. Y' all should watch it. It's a great kind of breakdown of this.

[B]

So you're in the boardroom. Yeah, we just wrapped up Indiana Jones. We're on dlc. We're moving towards that. Are you raising your hand saying, hey, let's go back to BJ now?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Are you riding the high of Indiana Jones?

[A]

I mean, if I'm in the boardroom, I'm out there for my own self interest. So I'm saying fucking DNA Jones too. Let's make Wolf side again. But if I'm, I guess on the financial side, I would have to look at the numbers, right. Like, I didn't see how well Indiana Jones and the great circle did.

[B]

Is putting BJ on ice for a little bit. A positive. As we look at the Doom trilogy, we can point over to Doom and say, hey, that had three in a row. We saw it ebb and flow. We saw it up and down. On this last one, it had positives, but it seems to be a lot colder than the first one.

[A]

Can I tell you? Because I had a hot take that came to mind, but I was like, I'm not going to share this hot take because I don't want to have hot takes for the sake of hot takes. But since you bring up Doom the Dark Age, one of the things that I was thinking about just now was like, I would have taken Wolfstein three over Doom the Dark Ages. And I like Doom the Dark Age is fine, but I feel like I don't like Wolfstein being on ice because that game was. It felt like a trilogy. It felt like after Wolfenstein 2 there was more story to tell there. And I think on the gameplay side, it's fine to be put on ice, right? Of like, hey, you know, Doom one and Doom Eternal did like, I think did such a great job of redefining the series. And I feel like they got, they got so much juice out of those two games. And Doom the Dark Ages, you know, they found a flow with it. Hey, let's put it in the Dark Ages. New setting. We'll find some new things to do. But for me, it still felt like more Doom. Whereas I think a Wolfenstein would have more to say in a story. I think there's more to those characters that I would, I would love to see developed. And I, I would have loved that a bit closer. I don't, I don't like waiting this long for a Wolfenstein 3.

[B]

Yeah, you will probably have forgotten everything that happened in Wolfenstein 1 and 2 or the general audience will have already forgotten that. It will be kind of a reintroduction once again. So will be an interesting spot to put this team in. Of like, hey, it's seven to 10 years later and we're. We're jumping back into the finale of this and you're like, I don't remember.

[A]

Yes. It's like, I gotta watch. I gotta watch a YouTube video that. Which I wouldn't like. The Wolfenstein 2 all cutscenes YouTube video would probably be. Would probably, like work. That'd probably hit.

[C]

It probably does. So I'll look that up right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wolfenstein 3. I mean, you would hope that the team gets the opportunity to make it for sure.

[A]

Yeah. Let's move on to Cyberpunk 2 story number four. Keanu Reeves says he's absolutely wants. He absolutely wants to be in Cyberpunk 2. Wait, bear, how many views is that wolf sign?

[C]

That top one from gamers little playground was 1.2 million.

[A]

Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah, I would watch that game like a movie. Dude. I love that video game. This is from Michael Payton at IGN. Details surrounding Cyberpunk 2 are scarce, but fans of Cyberpunk 2077 can rest assured that the game's biggest star is down to return if given the opportunity. Speaking with IGN while promoting his upcoming movie Good Fortune, Keanu Reeves said that he wants to be part of the sequel to CD Projekt Red's 2020 game. QUOTE Absolutely. I'd love to play Johnny Silverhand again. Reeves said when asked if he'd be interested in revisiting his legendary Rockstar terrorist character in Cyberpunk 2. While many players believe Cyberpunk 2077 provided a suitable ending for Johnny and V story, depending on which ending of the game CD Projekt makes canon for Cyberpunk 2, the door may be left open for Reeves return. Could Johnny return in cameo form, perhaps having downloaded himself into someone or something else? Canon, canon, ending dependent? Could V end up becoming Johnny Silverhand in mind and body for Cyberpunk 2? Or perhaps it would be better to let Johnny and V rest and go for. And go for a fresh start with the sequel. Mike, did you play through Cyberpunk? No. Oh man, that's a good ass game. Did you try Cyberpunk?

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Okay, you just fell off. You didn't. You weren't feeling it.

[B]

Yeah, just, you know, the open world fatigue of it all.

[A]

That's fair. That's fair. I love Cyberpunk for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I don't really feel either way with this. I love Keanu Reeves character. I love Johnny's overhand cyberpunk. I'm not in a place narratively where I'm like, oh, I hope to see him come back or I hope to see him stay away. Like, I'm like, whatever works for the story, really.

[B]

Like, I give it a big thumbs up. Shout out to Keanu.

[A]

Shout out to Keanu.

[B]

Just a cool dude who's like, yeah, I come back. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, when you have such a big name as him, you're probably going to find a fun way to at least like put him in A fun way for just a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He doesn't have to be the mainstay of the next story, but, like, if Keanu Reeves looks at me, says, mike, yeah, I'd come back as Johnny. It's like, okay, let's figure this out. You know what I mean? Billboard. Quick. Cameo. He's in.

[A]

Cameo is like the way I would think about it.

[B]

He's in.

[A]

Cuz I don't. I don't even see Cyberpunk 2 being like a direct, direct follow up to Cyberpunk 1. That feels kind of like a nice contained thing. I would want, like a completely separate story within that universe is what I would look out of that. And so, but yeah, if you give me a billboard, give me a flashback cutscene of somebody going to a Johnny Silverhand concert. Come on.

[B]

He's in.

[A]

He's in. Mike, we talked a lot about some big old news stories, some gigantic news stories, some huge stories today, some fun.

[B]

News stories with you.

[A]

But if I wanted something smaller, say the tiniest news I need to know about. Where did I go?

[B]

Bless. I take you to our last story, the WE News Channel, where we cover all the small news items you need to know about.

[A]

Story number five, slash six is WE News story number number five. Originally was gonna be big news, but it's getting demoted because we got. So we got deep into that Xbox conversation, which I appreciate. It was really good.

[B]

It's a very fun conversation. Be great to have the whole panel and maybe a you and Greg. One on two with Pete Hines would be great. I'd love to hear Pete Hines a little bit more.

[A]

Get a three on two. We'd want you. Let's do four round two. Let's do four on one. Get your Paris on there. You know what I mean?

[B]

But it would be fun. As we see more and more kind of go or, you know, move on to the next thing. It would be fun to, like, kind of peel back the curtain and talk about that and see, you know, very interesting conversation here. Love to see where Pete would go with a conversation with us, how deep we could go.

[A]

So number five, that I'm turning into WE News. Switch modder, who ignored warnings from Nintendo and attempted to defend himself without a lawyer, ultimately must pay $2 million for enabling piracy. If you want to read the full.

[B]

Story, that's a wild story.

[A]

Tom Phillips at IGN wrote it up for you. But yeah, a dude was like, nah, man, I'm standing my ground without a lawyer against Nintendo. And now he has to pay $2 million and so you hate to see it. More Wii news for you. PC gaming show Tokyo Direct is set for September 28th and Moon Mystery is coming to PS5 Xbox series on September 18th. And that is it for We News. I'm going to take one more glance at Super Chats. I mean this comes off of what you just said. Mike Volkdasher says would love kind of funny getting Pete Hines on to discuss his recent Game Pass and Xbox views. I'm sure we would love that too. Pete Hines, if you're watching. Yeah. Coming out with us, please.

[B]

Love that one.

[A]

Janky023 says just got back home from Puerto Rico from my vacation week in Toronto or to Puerto Rico. Miss you guys last week and I'm very excited to see you guys live again. Welcome back home, Janky. And then we got a lot more just Game Pass conversations. Aaron Lime, right said it says how will game pass get stronger if they keep canceling their perfect darks, etc.

[B]

Yeah, but like Perfect Dark.

[A]

I'll let that sit.

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna let you.

[A]

I'll let that happen. What you got against Perfect Dark?

[B]

Perfect Dark wasn't gonna be massive. It's an IP that's 25 years old. You don't even remember the first Perfect Dark. You didn't play Perfect Dark Zero. It wasn't gonna be a win.

[A]

But like you don't want new and returning.

[B]

Sometimes you just have to be real with each other. You know what AAA gum shot.

[A]

You just want Call of Duty all the time.

[B]

I like to be the guy that's like gumdrops and lollipops, but sometimes we have to look at each other and just say that wasn't gonna be the one. And it's okay to say that.

[A]

You know what? Fair enough. Fair enough. That's hilarious response, by the way. I think that's it. Yeah. Like I'm scrolling. Basically a lot of. We've covered a lot of these already in the game pass conversation, so I don't need to repeat questions. So let's hop into kind of fighting.com you're wrong where you write in let us know what we got wrong and as we got it wrong so we can correct it. For those watching later on YouTube and listening later on podcast services around the globe, Fitz writes in and says Mike said most physical media nowadays are just licenses to play games. But that's not true. On PS5, at least, most physical games are playable without an Internet connection. Sure, many have patches, et cetera, but they are not required to install slash run the game. Hell yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They can all look into that for you.

[B]

This week's schedule. This week's schedule packed Big Dog, a lot of cool things. 2 in reviews this week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I hear this in review this afternoon will change your life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Greg's been talking about Miller says that this in review. He's going to do something that will change your life forever.

[A]

And that's it. I think this one I'm looking at is more of an opinion. It seems like. Mike, that's been a very successful episode of KHD with you. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. It's a good conversation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like me and you were the right people for this one.

[B]

Oh, you know Tim. But like, yeah, Tim would have been better for the physical stuff because he still holds on to discs.

[A]

Oh sure.

[B]

So, but like most of the conversation.

[A]

About Xbox game pass. So I love having you here because like yeah, usually if it's me and Greg, people complain, but I feel like me and you have a good dichotomy.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

Good conversation. Of course. This has been kind of funny. Games Daily. Each and every weekday we run you through the nerdy news and need to know about live on YouTube, Twitch and on podcast services around the globe. If you love what we do, support us with the kind of funny membership on Patreon or YouTube to get all of our shows ad free, watch us record them live and get a daily exclusive show. Enjoy the games cast next and the stream after and everything happening today. But until next time, Game Daily.