Hollow Knight: Silk Song Live Reaction and Breakdown - Kinda Funny Gamescast

Summary

Kinda Funny Gamescast — Hollow Knight: Silksong Live Reaction and Breakdown

Episode Date: August 21, 2025
Hosts: Greg Miller, Blessing Adeoye, Andy Cortez

---

Overview

This episode of Kinda Funny Gamescast focuses on live reactions and a detailed breakdown of the long-awaited Hollow Knight: Silksong release trailer. The hosts, a mix of longtime fans and curious newcomers, dive into their personal history with the Hollow Knight franchise, discuss community hype, analyze the new trailer, and comment on Jason Schreier’s investigation into the game’s unusually long development cycle. The podcast provides a vibrant, honest conversation on both fan expectations and indie game development realities.

---

Episode Highlights and Discussion Breakdown

1. Building Hype: The Wait for Silksong

• [02:29 - 09:11]
  • Andy Cortez: Shares how special Hollow Knight is to him despite joining the fanbase late, highlighting its unique boss fights and the community’s long wait for Silksong.
    • “I was super late to the party...but once I kind of got into it, then I saw the magic and unfortunately became somebody who joined all the other waiters.” ([08:49])
  • Blessing: Candidly admits never fully clicking with Hollow Knight, feeling odd being on the panel, given his lack of fandom.
  • Greg: Positions the moment as industry significance, not just fandom, calling Silksong “a moment, no matter what this is about to be.”

---

2. Personal Connections & Metroidvania Tastes

• [09:59 - 13:31]
  • Discuss the role of taste-makers and recommendations in the Kinda Funny group, with Blessing noting he usually trusts Andy’s taste but Hollow Knight remains an exception.
  • Andy goes into how presenting Hollow Knight on stream helped him appreciate its mechanics and boss fights, especially with chat’s help.
    • “For me it was the boss fights...that special feeling of the boss fights and the patterns, the grandiose...it’s a really, really, it's a good game.” ([12:49])
  • Blessing and Andy reflect on the challenge of Metroidvanias, getting lost, and how perseverance (and guidance) can unlock their magic.

---

3. Silksong Expectations & Industry Impact

• [13:31 - 20:43]
  • Greg: “Do you think there’s any chance this game lives up to the hype?”
  • Andy: Notes that Silksong may be the most hyped 2D side-scroller ever—surpassing even Mario in excitement thanks to community momentum.
    • “There will never be another 2D game talked about more than Silksong, hyped up more.” ([14:57])
  • Blessing & Andy: Discuss how the “meme” of waiting could translate into real sales, aided by constant community-driven marketing and Game Pass accessibility.
    • “Hollow Knight, as far as I’ve seen, has done the thing that I think any developer would kill for, where it just expands, expands, expands…” ([17:09])
  • The panel predicts the game will be a massive success, well beyond typical indie or Metroidvania standards, drawing comparisons to titles like Elden Ring for impact (not literal sales).

---

4. Release Date Predictions

• [21:32 - 23:04]
  • Each host gives their prediction for the Silksong release, believing it’ll arrive sometime between September–November, with jokes about further delays causing heartbreak.
  • Andy boldly claims: “This will be the most polished video game of all time—there will be negative bugs in this game.” ([22:56])

---

5. LIVE Hollow Knight: Silksong Trailer Reaction

[25:29 - 27:19]

• The crew watches the official release trailer for Silksong for the first time.
• Notable Quotes & Reaction Moments:
  • Andy (upon seeing gameplay):
    “There’s just so much sauce in this game.” ([25:45])
    “Got gooseies all over the place!” ([26:14])
  • Trailer facts: New crafting system, “lethal acrobatic action,” 200+ enemies, and over 40 bosses.
  • Greg:
    “It’s so gorgeous. Even as somebody who doesn’t kneel at the altar of Hollow Knight…just gorgeous.” ([25:56])
  • Blessing:
    “I can feel my hands hurt.” ([26:13])
  • The trailer ends with a dramatic title card:
    September 4th, 2025.
    • “September 4th!” ([27:14])

---

6. Post-Trailer Breakdown & Analysis

[27:29 - 32:28]

• Andy: Excited by how elaborate Silksong is, surmising the DLC-to-full-sequel transition. The scale (“over 40 bosses, 200+ enemy types”) blows him away.
  • “I love seeing the patterns of these bosses. Hollow Knight does such a great job having no dialogue, but so much personality…I’m just so pumped up for all the little freaky weirdos we’ll meet along the way.” ([27:32])
• Blessing:
  • Praises the art style’s evolution: “The more I see the varied environments, the more I’m like, damn, this shit really hits…” ([28:59])
  • Notes the trailer’s old-school vibe: “Vanquish over 40 bosses, 200 enemies...It’s a full game, not just like a DLC.” ([30:31])
• Greg:
  • Expresses awe at the platforming and challenge, comparing it to Celeste's forgiving emergent design: “I could see myself screaming into a pillow at 4:12 at night, mad as hell.” ([31:44])
• Andy: Anticipates the return of Hollow Knight’s famously difficult “Path of Pain” challenge.

---

7. Jason Schreier’s Article: Seven-Year Journey

[36:31 - 44:27]

• The crew summarizes Schreier’s scoop:
  • Team Cherry never faced a crisis; they simply took as long as needed with a small team to realize their vision.
  • The game ballooned from modest DLC to a full-sized, perhaps even larger, sequel.
    • “The lengthy production wasn’t the result of development challenges or obstacles...we are a small team and games take a lot of time.” (Team Cherry, cited by Schreier, [38:47])
• Discussion on the creativity and freedom of indie development, Team Cherry’s preference for quality over speed, their reluctance to grow the studio beyond a handful (currently 3–5 core people plus support).
  • “For them to talk about…we have these systems feeding into other things and we want to take our time…to see that full vision come to fruition—I think that’s absolutely fantastic.” (Blessing, [40:29])

---

8. Indie Success, Review Code Policy, and Mismanagement Debates

[44:54 - 60:13]

• Team Cherry not sending early review codes (to prioritize backers and due to time constraints), which the panel respects given their extraordinary position and organic buzz.
  • “This game does not need that...They just own the internet today by doing this.” (Greg, [45:55])
• Audience and panel discuss whether the lengthy dev time was mismanagement:
  • Andy: “I would only qualify this as mismanagement if it were a team of 30...To me, this is just three dudes hanging out making a thing they want.” ([58:43])
  • Greg: “This is art—they’re making exactly what they want.” ([59:21])
• Indie situation compared favorably against AAA pressures, lay-offs, and artificial deadlines.

---

9. Listener Questions, Metroidvania Recommendations, and Community Response

[53:56 - 57:49]

• Recommendations for Metroidvania fans:
  • Andy shouts out Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown, Axiom Verge, Blasphemous 2 as must-plays alongside Hollow Knight.
    • “Blasphemous 2...unbelievable art-wise, combat-wise, exploration. It’s unfucking believable.” ([56:43])
• Community live reactions:
  • “Played Hollow Knight on Switch, near release. Hollow Knight is my favorite game, hands down...the premiere had me in tears. It’s finally real.” (listener, Inner Jet Stream, [52:22])
• Panel predicts: Silksong’s broad appeal may still have limits—a masterpiece for fans and hardcore Metroidvania lovers, but potentially daunting for “hype hoppers” or the casual crowd.

---

Notable Quotes

• Andy Cortez:

  “There will never be another 2D game talked about more than Silksong, hyped up more...from here until the end of time.” ([14:57])
  “I think this will be the most polished video game of all time—there will be negative bugs in this game.” ([22:56])
  "I just love seeing the patterns of these bosses. And I think this game, Hollow Knight does such a great job with having no dialogue but having so much personality..." ([27:32])

• Blessing Adeoye:

  “I think they’re navigating this…really well. The Hollow Knight hype combined with the accessibility of Game Pass is going to do so much for the amount of people playing this.” ([20:43])

• Greg Miller:

  “This is art because they love the art that they can do...They’re making exactly what they want.” ([59:21])

---

Key Timestamps

• [02:29] – Andy describes Hollow Knight’s impact and the community’s wait
• [09:13] – Blessing’s relationship with Hollow Knight; trust in Andy’s recommendations
• [12:49] – Andy on what makes Hollow Knight special: boss fights and patterns
• [13:55] – Will Silksong live up to its hype?
• [21:32] – Release date predictions
• [25:29] – LIVE Silksong trailer reaction
• [27:32] – Post-trailer first impressions (Andy)
• [28:59] – Art style and visual overhaul (Blessing)
• [36:31] – Jason Schreier article recap
• [44:54] – Discussion of indie privilege, lack of early review codes
• [53:56] – Must-play Metroidvania recommendations
• [58:43] – Was the seven-year dev time “mismanagement”?
• [62:01] – Final community wrap-up and birthday shout-out

---

Tone and Takeaways

The episode delivers a mix of hype, respectful skepticism, and genuine admiration—for both Hollow Knight: Silksong itself and the unorthodox, “art for art’s sake” approach of Team Cherry. The hosts blend irreverent banter with heartfelt appreciation for the indie process, providing recommendations, context, and a sense of celebration as the release date finally arrives after years in the making. Whether you’re a die-hard fan or an industry watcher, this episode captures a defining moment in modern indie gaming.

---

For listeners new to Hollow Knight or Silksong:

• The game has ballooned from DLC to a massive, content-rich full sequel.
• The September 4th release is real—and will almost certainly be a landmark moment not just for Metroidvanias, but for independent game development at large.
• Expect glowing recommendations, but also a recognition that the game’s (sometimes punishing) intensity may not be for everyone.

For Hollow Knight fans:

• The wait is nearly over.
• The trailer confirms a staggering scale—200+ enemies, 40+ bosses, new crafting systems, and visual upgrades.
• Development has been slow, deliberate, and fueled by creative joy—not crisis.
• The industry, and the Kinda Funny crew, are right there celebrating with you.

Transcript

[Blessing]

Support for this podcast and the following message comes from America's Navy.

[Andy Cortez]

The Navy offers new graduates hands on.

[Blessing]

Training and experience in careers like computer science, aviation and medicine. Plus education and sign on bonuses.

[Andy Cortez]

Parents help your grads start their career.

[Blessing]

[e-mail] youm say you'll never join the.

[Greg Miller]

Navy, that you never track storms brewing.

[Blessing]

In the Atlantic.

[Greg Miller]

And skydiving could never be part of your commute. You'd never climb Mount Fuji on a.

[Blessing]

Port visit or fly so fast you.

[Greg Miller]

Break the sound barrier.

[Andy Cortez]

Joining the Navy sounds crazy.

[Blessing]

Saying never actually is.

[Andy Cortez]

Start your [e-mail], america's Navy forged by the sea. You say you'll never join the Navy.

[Blessing]

Never climb Mount Fuji on a port.

[Greg Miller]

Visit or break the sound barrier.

[Andy Cortez]

Joining the Navy sounds crazy saying never actually is living. Learn [e-mail], america's Navy forged by the sea.

[Greg Miller]

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Kinda Funny Games cast. I'm one of your hosts, Greg Miller alongside Forbes 30 under 30 aka New York Game Awards. Nominated aka wearer of a classic kind of funny shirt that you don't see often worn anymore. Here the only Covid one.

[Blessing]

This is a top three. Yeah, this is one of. Is this you, Andy? Did you make this one?

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Blessing]

I think this is a top three Andy design right here. I love this one.

[Greg Miller]

That's a great one. Yeah. When we made the we made the best we could. What we had to do when the COVID struck it's blessing out of Yo Yea Jr. Bring back the vid.

[Blessing]

You know who's with me?

[Greg Miller]

Whoa, whoa, no, hold on a second. I mean first off, I don't think it ever left two people I know from Pokemon have now gone down the road.

[Andy Cortez]

My grandma had Covid the whole time I was back home Comb by the way. And I was like couldn't even see her.

[Greg Miller]

Good visit. Good visit.

[Andy Cortez]

Waving at her from way over there.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Blessing]

How far down down the Alphabet have we gone with the strands?

[Greg Miller]

Oh, who knows anymore. You know, according to I've been paying a lot of close attention to the administration. They say it doesn't even exist. You know what I mean? They fired all scientists that were working on it. You know, doesn't matter. Hispanic heart throb Texas street Latino heat. Clicking heads and ripping them to shreds. The Globetrot and headshot in three point shooting root in tootin nitro rifle from Twitch tv. It's Andy Cortez.

[Andy Cortez]

A day we never thought would would arrive. I, I, I don't even know what to say or how to feel right now. But I've been keeping a close eye around the studio to see is anybody setting up for a let's play.

[Greg Miller]

So, ladies, gentlemen and enbies, as you know, this is the kind of funny games cast. Each and every weekday we come to you with the biggest topics in gamings, whether they be reviews, previews, or live reactions and breakdowns to what we're about to see. Today was scheduled to be something different for the kind of funny games cast. And then Hollow Knight Silksong decided to say we're not going to be a Jeff Keighley's thing. We're going to instead do our own presentation, YouTube Premiere, whatever the hell it's going to be this morning. Which meant we all looked at each other and said, do we want to wake up and be here at 7:30 in the morning? And that was a no. We didn't want to. We knew we were gambling. If it's a shadow drop and the game's out, it would have been cool to roll right from a. But we also like to sleep and it's, you know, they're not playing nice with our coast. So we're here to watch this presentation, which I have been told yesterday the YouTube premiere went up and it's something like two and a half minutes or something. It's not a long thing of whatever we're about to get for Hollow Knight Silksong. But it is the first official word about Hollow Knight Silksong at some time. So we us three have stayed off of the Internet.

[Andy Cortez]

I deleted my social media apps last night.

[Greg Miller]

Really? That's how big of a deal?

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uninstalled them and. But before. And it's all verified on Blue Sky.

[Blessing]

Oh, same.

[Greg Miller]

Congrats.

[Blessing]

That too.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

Very cool.

[Greg Miller]

I mean, happen for me a while.

[Andy Cortez]

Very cool to see a little badge. Oh, you know, La dee da. Yeah. It is what it is.

[Greg Miller]

Thank you, Blue sky for finally recognizing yeah, kind of funny's number one.

[Blessing]

You get the. The. The tweet from or I guess the post from a guy.

[Greg Miller]

100.

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah.

[Blessing]

From blue. @ Blue sky check. That was like congratulations on the blue check. And I was like, oh, is this official? And I clicked it and it's definitely not official.

[Andy Cortez]

No, it's definitely not official. It's just someone who's really proud and.

[Blessing]

It'S a blue check chaser. I've never heard they chase blue chate.

[Andy Cortez]

But again, Greg, you know, social media blackout. I got nothing up on my screen right now. I this morning. Roger's like, can you make a thumb, Andy? I was like, I'm not about to go.

[Greg Miller]

You almost did it. I saw you like, wait, no, I can't Google.

[Andy Cortez]

I'm not Googling silks. He's like, oh, good call.

[Greg Miller]

So.

[Andy Cortez]

But I've been keeping an eye out to see, like, is Kevin setting up the let's play last?

[Greg Miller]

Well, it's funny because when you walked in and I so you walked in with Barrett, and Barrett said, oh, well, fuck me, I guess to Roger, and I thought he. And I was on Fantasy critic, and I was like, does Barrett have Is something just. And I was. And then I was like, oh, no. Barrett's acknowledging that I said hi to Andy and I didn't say hi to Barrett.

[Blessing]

And I want to just put it out there.

[Andy Cortez]

He was here.

[Greg Miller]

No. Well, there's that. And also, Barrett is in the same camp as Blessing. They no longer get hellos. They no longer get hellos. They're always wearing headphones.

[Blessing]

For the record, I said hello to the coffee machine so many times when I walk in at the coffee machine, I see Greg walking by. I'm like, yo, nothing. And then he says immediately says, hey, Kevin.

[Andy Cortez]

Damn crazy.

[Greg Miller]

You are special.

[Blessing]

You can pick favorable.

[Greg Miller]

The amount of times I come in, Barrett's in the little pod listening to pop punk. And I go, hey, Barrett. I get nothing out of him. Him.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I don't care anymore.

[Blessing]

There's a difference when I'm setting up.

[Andy Cortez]

For the studio and when I'm walking in just having a fun time.

[Greg Miller]

You walk in wearing headphones all the time.

[Blessing]

Do you want me. Do you want to on time kfcd or do you want me to lollygag and having conversations with everybody in the.

[Andy Cortez]

Office when I Which one do you want exactly? When I walk in and I say, what up? I don't expect a response from Blessing anymore.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Cortez]

I know that he's building locked in a list. He's checking it twice. He sees his nice.

[Blessing]

And in this scenario, I didn't have headphones on or anything. I was just making coffee.

[Greg Miller]

I throw out. The Joe is so late, though, that it did throw me. I'm like, was that me? Because you all take evidence.

[Blessing]

Oh, okay. Me.

[Greg Miller]

I guess you start interactions with them to be like, roger, yo. And then you'll be talking to Roger like, oh, he's gonna talk to Rog again. I didn't know the king was gonna come down from his throne to acknowledge me today.

[Andy Cortez]

I throw out the general what up? And might get a response or two. And then ever since Mike switched seats, he never acknowledges me anymore. If he's, like, in a mood or if he's feeling a certain way.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, Mike. Mike's a vampire. You have to say hi to Mike.

[Andy Cortez]

Requires me to be like, what up, big dog? And like, hello, Andy. And I'm like, oh, he's mad at me for something. Yeah, he's uptight about something, you know?

[Blessing]

Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

I'm excited for this. Let's do this.

[Blessing]

We gotta figure out communication in this office.

[Andy Cortez]

Get the controller ready. Get the let's play lab ready.

[Greg Miller]

So that, I mean, I want to do the rigmarole and all that jazz, but number one, I want to know, Andy, why is Hollow Knight so special to you?

[Andy Cortez]

I. I'm. I was super late to the party, and by super late. I played it about three years ago.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

And I remember.

[Greg Miller]

When did Hollow Knight come out? I don't want to Google anything of this.

[Blessing]

2017, I guess we can't see the chat yet.

[Greg Miller]

For the record, all that different stuff.

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah, 20. It's been eight years. 2018, maybe. Yeah, 2018. Because the Silksong demo was first played seven years ago. I mean, that's, I think. Yeah. Oh, maybe it's long. Has it been longer? - 16, maybe? No, no.

[Blessing]

2017 is my, is my half court shot here.

[Greg Miller]

2018. Because I, I. Yesterday I went trying to contact Team Cherry to be like, are you releasing the game tomorrow? Should we change how we're doing our day? And I couldn't get a response. But I have a June 12, 2018 DM with them. It says, holy shit, Hollow Knight. Can we get codes for the Switch version? Kind of funny. Is all about, if possible, they say, hey, Greg, of course you can, man.

[Blessing]

Here you go.

[Greg Miller]

Thank you.

[Andy Cortez]

2017.

[Blessing]

You know the Steph Curry of release dates.

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah, bless those release dates. So I was super late to the party. I didn't really play it until I was already in the industry. And these are. There's a lot of games like that that are in my backlog where when I was busy in school, I wasn't playing a whole lot of games. And so this is one that I always heard the hype about. Always heard about Hollow Knight being this thing is where. And at the time, it's like, man, it's been three years. It's been two years since Silksong got announced. It's been three years since Silksong got announced and decided to do. Decided to stream it. And it was always one of those games that I would start up on my On a plane, on the switch. Yeah. Never got through with it. I was like, I just. I'm not in the right headspace for it. But once I kind of got into it, then I. I saw the magic and unfortunately became somebody who had. Who joined all the other waiters.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

Who have been, you know. All of the other accounts of is Silks. Is there Silks Song news today? Is there a release date yet? No. One of all those Twitter accounts that are all, you know, dedicated to Hollow Night. So really sort of I saw the light and became a believer. Even though all of the hype surrounding it, I was like, there's no way you could live up to it. And it totally does.

[Greg Miller]

Blessing, what's your history with Hollow Knight?

[Blessing]

I've tried Hollow Knight a few times and I've just not been able to get into it. This is one of those ones where I was almost like, should I take myself off of this? Because I feel like I wouldn't even call myself a fan. Right. But I feel like a fake fan showing up to a Hollow Knight, like, reaction.

[Greg Miller]

Well, I think at this point, Hollow Knight is. It's gone over the event horizon. Like, this is. I'm not a Hollow Knight Die Hard by anything. I'm where Andy was before. I've tried Hollow Knight a bunch and I appreciate this is not my kind of game or whatever, but as industry news, as industry people like Roger told me on the document he's made for Gamescast here because he spoiled everything for himself. He's put Jason Shrier's article that Jason teased on Only Night Live. So there's like a story as well, when we're done with this, of what the fuck's been going on. But I think so. I think it's like an industry. This is a moment, no matter what this is about to be.

[Blessing]

Yeah. But Hollow Knight's one of those games as well where I. Greg, you talk about Janet Garcia as far as like, her being.

[Greg Miller]

Talk about her.

[Blessing]

Her being somebody that she's allowed to recommend you any video game.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, right.

[Blessing]

Like, you are somebody who. Like you. You know my taste. You vibe with my taste. Like, if you recommend something, I'm going to check it out. I realized as we're sitting here that I think Andy is that for me where last night I had downloaded Void Breaker and the King is watching.

[Andy Cortez]

The King is watching.

[Blessing]

The King is watching.

[Andy Cortez]

Oh, my God. Stayed up with a real late run with King is Watching last night.

[Greg Miller]

What I like the King is watching. You keep talking about it, but I don't even know what it is. What is it?

[Andy Cortez]

It's auto battler kind of tower defense, but it's just like. It's. It's just the amount, the different permutations and variations of runs that you can have with this roguelite. It's so smart and so good. And I'm like, fuck, this is probably going to be a contender for me with as much time as I put into it.

[Blessing]

Yeah. So usually if Andy recommends something, I feel like Andy knows my taste. Slash has a lot of watching me. Oh, it is. The king is watching. But, yeah, I think Andy. A lot of Andy's taste is aligned with my taste in video games. And Andy likes a lot of the same things that I like in video games. And so, like Outer Wilds. I ended up loving Outer Wilds. Right. One of my favorite games, you know, the Souls obsession. Right. Like, I think transferred to me as well for some reason. Hollow Knight. The one exception has been Hollow Knight to a point where I'm like, maybe if I just push through. Like, maybe if I just get to the other side. Yeah, it'll be something where I'm like, oh, this is a. This is a goat. But I've just not gotten there yet.

[Andy Cortez]

I've been want. I saw a subreddit post couple of months ago being like, roger just beat this game. And by the way, we were out there, and we're like, roger, we probably should have had you on here. Right?

[Greg Miller]

He's like, yeah, an oversight.

[Andy Cortez]

A bit of an oversight.

[Greg Miller]

You know, Roger's favorite thing to do is be as quiet as a mouse. And then when it's too late, be like, you guys fucked up. You know what I mean? Like, he's not at the goddamn meetings every day.

[Andy Cortez]

Very, very true. But I can see why I got.

[Greg Miller]

Punched in the back of the head.

[Andy Cortez]

But I know, but I know he. I know that he played recently. He played Hollow Knight recently. And there was a post. I was like, why haven't Andy and Roger done a spoiler cast for Holiday? I was like, okay, first off, I don't remember games like that.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

And I've also played this three, over three years ago. I don't remember what was happening during the pandemic. Like, I. I beat the game. And luckily I had a lot of Twitch chats, help with, like, secret bosses and things of that. But I want to replay Hollow Knight in a way. That is what I've been doing with the Souls games, where I have been taking notes about characters and lore and making. Because I'm. I. I'VE I've got the bad ADHD brain and it's super hard for me to remember direction. So during my Hollow Knight experience, I would say for you, bless. A lot of Metroidvanias can affect me the same way. I think they affect you where it's easy to get lost and it's easy to kind of want to give up because you're just like, like where the.

[Blessing]

Am I supposed to go?

[Andy Cortez]

I haven't found the right entrance or whatever. But I ended up using a decent amount of help for directions and the chat was helping me out quite a bit with where to go and then that, that made the experience a lot more fluid and it's really, for me it was the boss fights. I am not up on Hollow knight lore like at all. But it was the special, the special feeling of the boss fights and the patterns that they do and the grandiose like here, here's this big guy and here's what his move patterns are and overcoming those challenges and then having that next big epic moment. The exploration was awesome. It's, it's a really, really, it's a good game, this calling. People weren't lying about it, you know.

[Greg Miller]

So question I have for you then. Do you think there's any chance this game lives up to the hype? Like are you confident like in what you're about to see and I assume the date, maybe even it's today, whatever we're about to get. Are you confident this game is going to be an all timer? This is going, this is a contender, this is in the running for like where do you, where's your level of anticipation? Expectation? I guess more than anticipation.

[Andy Cortez]

I think if it. One thing I'm super, you know, interested to see is what exactly is the length of the game going to be?

[Greg Miller]

How long was the first one is.

[Andy Cortez]

30, 40, 50, 70 hours depending on how much, depending on how much you want to do. You know what I mean? Like you could probably main path it and do it in like 25 hours maybe. But it took me a, it took me a good while and then there's a lot of like challenge levels. I think this game can live up to the hype if it has, if it has boss fights that are of equal like impressiveness not not only based on production but the difficulty of them along with needing a couple of good like story hooks to really get people going. Like, oh, this is why I love Team Cherry and the game and the games or the game that they make. I don't really know what else they Put out before that. I was thinking earlier as I was getting ready. I don't think from now until the end of time that there will ever be another 2D game talked about more than Silksong, hyped up more in the from here until the end of time, there will never be another 2D side scroller that ever, ever lives up to all of the is so. So I'm gonna be here. Is this like just the fervor that there is surrounding the community for the rest of time? I don't think there will ever. There will like what I need. You couldn't even give me a Mario game, a Mario World 2 and it do that. Like I just don't think any other game will have that. Like, you know.

[Blessing]

You think? Yeah, because I would like. I would say it would have to be. Maddie makes games. So I think has a different video game developer.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, they did something.

[Blessing]

Okay. Games.

[Andy Cortez]

Okay.

[Blessing]

Okay. KO no. Something along those lines. But the people who made Celeste, if they were to announce Celeste 2 and then not release it for a decade, maybe we get there. It would have to be the. Something like that.

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah, it would have to be the not releasing it part. Because I mean every time we do one of these presentations, I think the same thing that everybody thinks where it's like, man, you. You couldn't pay to have this amount of marketing for your game that they're not even paying for this marketing. It's just the. The crowd and the audience and the, you know, anticipation is doing it for the game.

[Greg Miller]

Of course.

[Andy Cortez]

I forgot we have a video to watch. Sorry.

[Greg Miller]

No, we're doing great. I mean this is what it's all about. I like this conversation a lot. Blessing then. I mean to talk about Hollow Knight Silk song and the build up to this point and the anticipation, the expectation. Something I thought was interesting and I want your take is just an industry professional, right? Not someone in this fandom yesterday or two days ago. And I forget if it was bs that's Blue Sky Tim or if it was Reddit, but there was a conversation going of like Hollow Knight at some point it has to be a bit for the industry. Right. Of like the people who in chat just want to spam that. Are they actually going to buy this? Are they actually going to show up for this game? What are your expectations? Not in terms of reception and quality, but in terms of sales. Like do you think this is going to set the world on fire or has this just become that meme that now that it's out it's like hey, let's Everybody rush area 51 and only x amount of people show up.

[Blessing]

Yeah, I don't think it's like the meme in terms of. All right, there's all this hype and then it only sells a million units or only has a million players or whatever in like the first month of it coming out. I think there is an audience that has a fervor for this game. And I think it's one of those things that we see where a game comes out and maybe at launch it doesn't have a big gigantic splash because it's a new IP from any developer and like, that needs time to grow. But Hollow Knight, as far as what I've seen, has, like, done the thing that I think any developer would kill for, where over time it just expands, expands, expands in terms of audience, because new people are always checking it out because Hollow Knight is kind of always in Vogue. People, YouTubers, creators are always talking about it. The Andy Cortez of the world are always talking about it. And even though you don't have this one big moment of like, Hollow Knight is the biggest thing ever, I think because you've had this buildup over time, you. You're going to see all these people who played Hollow Knight over the years show up and really get hyped for Silksong, let alone like the marketing of this game, funny enough. Like, not even on the dev side, right. But on the community side, I think that's going to do a lot as far as people being aware of it and people being like, it being the industry thing of, oh, shit, it feels like Half Life 3. It feels like this game that has been gestating for a long time. I got to check this out regardless, right? And I think it being on Game Pass does so much for that as far as the accessibility of it. And yeah, I, I imagine this is going to do big numbers.

[Greg Miller]

Now.

[Blessing]

I don't think it's going to be like Pokemon Scarlet at launch where it does 10 million or anything like that in the first week, but I, I think this is gonna, I think this is gonna be very successful.

[Andy Cortez]

This will be the 2D, the 2D equivalent. Let's stick with me because I'm with you. As soon as I throw it out there, you're gonna like, everybody's gonna flip their shit in chat. Those would be the 2D equivalent of Elden Ring. Not 25 million units wise, but grading on a curve where this game has been waiting for a long time when there was a while where we just Thought Elden Ring might have been canceled after a while and like that sort of hype builds everything up. And I, I, I think that Elden Ring did a lot more numbers because of the pandemic and getting your friends to play with you and then things like that. It's very similar to an Animal Crossing success story. I still would have sold a shit ton, granted. But I think that like where we expect maybe most 2D platformers or 2D metroidvanias to do 2 to 3 million, I think this will be closer to like the 10 million mark faster than we think it will.

[Greg Miller]

That Game Pass part is so important and I think to your point of like, you know, this hype train building up, everyone knowing how good Hollow Knight is and now having a Hollow knight to like even for you, who hasn't clicked with it, you're going to check it out.

[Blessing]

Yeah, I'll probably put it up.

[Greg Miller]

Even me who I Hollow Night. Just not. I'm going to play this. I mean I'm going to try it and hope that it gets. You know what I mean?

[Andy Cortez]

Like, I think curiosity, you're going to.

[Greg Miller]

See that whole thing that be part of that conversation be out there. They finally did this. If that's what I mean. They're going to, I mean the video today is quitting.

[Andy Cortez]

Whenever you see the due to economic climate like whatever.

[Blessing]

Whenever you see the tweet or post from them being like we hit this many players in the first few weeks. Right. Like it's, I don't think they're going to talk about units sold. I don't think they're going to be like we sold this many Hollow Knight units. I think it's going to be this many players played Hollow Knight and I think it's going to be a big number and I think Game Pass is going to be 100% largely responsible for it. And that's not to take away from Hollow Knight. Right. But like I think the Hollow Knight hype combined with the accessibility of Game Pass is going to do so much for the amount of people that are playing that are going to check out this game.

[Andy Cortez]

I hear a lot of doors and stuff shuffling over there. They're probably getting the, they're getting it ready.

[Greg Miller]

So do you, do you think the video we're about to see is going to be. And it's out now?

[Andy Cortez]

Well, I, I first off, I hate everybody on the panel for con for convincing me that it was even a possibility.

[Greg Miller]

I do. I didn't.

[Andy Cortez]

It was, it was Tim throwing it out there. And then Bless is like, actually, you may be right. Tim. And Mike is like, I mean, Tim had a whole.

[Greg Miller]

Like, he was supposed to be here. He was supposed to be hosting this. Then he had some kind of like, oh, I gotta. I can't do it. What's. Is he playing right now? Is that what he's doing?

[Blessing]

He's trying to get our. Our next stream sponsored by Hollow Knight.

[Greg Miller]

Why did we. Why did we hire Russ? What was the point?

[Andy Cortez]

I'm excited.

[Blessing]

What would. How disappointed would you be if at the end of the trailer they're like 26, it's coming out? Well, I was going to say November, but yeah, 2026 would be the. That'd be tough.

[Andy Cortez]

So that 2026 would be tough.

[Blessing]

That'd be tough.

[Greg Miller]

I mean that would be. Does that mean they're delaying the Xbox Handheld as well? I want to. I still got to do my rigmarole here. And then I want to get. I want to watch it and whatever. But like for our final. Right here, give me. When do you think it's coming out, Andy?

[Andy Cortez]

I mean, it's just everything that Tim was saying yesterday and all the other points that people kept adding on, I'm like, man, that. That doesn't seem like. It doesn't make sense. Like to. To have a two minute video. You know, maybe if it were in Keely's presentation and it was a six minute thing, you could or it just seems like all the stars are aligning. But I don't want to do that to myself. So I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say we've had Xbox break the rules before. Like all these games are coming on the next 12 months. The ROG Ally stuff does not affect me at all. Like, I don't care when that thing comes out. October, right?

[Greg Miller]

October 17th. Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

To me I'm like, it doesn't matter what you all think because Team Cherry has always just gone by the beat of their own drum. I'm going to say. I'm going to say November.

[Greg Miller]

Okay, bless.

[Blessing]

I'll say early October. I think it comes out before the Rog.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah. I mean that was such muddled messaging. I don't.

[Blessing]

I don't.

[Greg Miller]

I'm throwing all that away. I think it's September.

[Andy Cortez]

And I will say that this will be the most polished video game of all time.

[Greg Miller]

There's no way it could be bad.

[Andy Cortez]

There will be negative bugs in this game. Well, I mean, you know, little bugs.

[Blessing]

I was going to say there's bugs. Yeah.

[Greg Miller]

It'll fix other bugs. In other games polished. All right, well we're about to watch it because this is the kind of funny each and every weekday, four, sometimes three best friends gather on this table coming to talk about the biggest topics in video games, whether they be reviews, previews, or just things we need to react to. If you like that, we'd love you to pick up the Kinda Funny membership. You can grab it over on patreon.com kindafunny, YouTube.com kindofunnygames, Apple or Spotify. Of course, $10 a month gets you more than 80 episodes of ad free content and more than four hours of exclusive podcasting with me all by my lonesome talking to you in a series I call Greg Way. Of course you'd also get good karma supporting an 11 person small business. But we understand no bucks toss our way. No big deal. Like subscribe, share, leave a review. If you have Amazon prime, you have Twitch prime and you have a free 30 day subscription to give to somebody. Please give it to us even if you don't use it. Usually. If you are watching live right now, of course you can be part of the show with YouTube super chats. Super Chat. Your thoughts, opinions, how much you're laughing at us as we make predictions on things.

[Andy Cortez]

I didn't even consider that.

[Greg Miller]

What? That they can get you right away.

[Andy Cortez]

Just put like an overlay of a clown on me right now.

[Greg Miller]

No, I'm sure it's not that bad. Of course. Housekeeping or an 11 person small business. All about live talk shows. After this you're getting kind of funny games daily. After that you are getting the return of avpp. Avpp Alien versus Predator in review. And then it's Nick's first time playing Balatro. We got our finger on the pulse of games around here, you know what I mean? Maybe that will become Hollow Knight Silk song. We'll find out soon enough. If you are a kind of funny member. Today's Grand Regue is 17 minutes of me in a pickle down there.

[Andy Cortez]

Look at him down there.

[Greg Miller]

Oh, there he is. Thank you. Did you. Is that special or that just odd?

[Andy Cortez]

No, it just happened.

[Greg Miller]

Thank you to our Patreon producers, Carl Jacobs, Omega Buster and Delaney. The Psalm Twining. Today we're brought to you by Factor Shady Rays and Aura Frames. But we'll tell you about that later. For now, let's begin with what is and forever will be topic of the show.

[Andy Cortez]

What were you gonna say?

[Blessing]

Bliss? I was gonna say kick Nick off the stream. Let me continue my Hollow Knight playthrough.

[Andy Cortez]

Oh Let me get in there. Oh, so you're convinced you're. Yeah, yeah.

[Blessing]

No, I mean October is my prediction.

[Greg Miller]

Okay, Kevin, we are ready to react finally to this two minute trailer.

[Andy Cortez]

It's such a hard game to stream though. Oh, is it really Distraction. It's just like getting lost.

[Greg Miller]

It's release trailer is what it's titled.

[Blessing]

Oh, the release trailer.

[Andy Cortez]

That's the noises she makes.

[Greg Miller]

She's a. She woke.

[Andy Cortez]

Can I play as a guy of a haunted kingdom? There's just so much sauce in this game.

[Greg Miller]

It's so gorgeous. Again, even as somebody who doesn't like kneel at the altar of Hollow Knight. Just gorgeous.

[Andy Cortez]

Crap. Oh, a little crafting kit. Okay. Lethal acrobatic action.

[Greg Miller]

I look at that. I'm like, my thumbs are too fat.

[Andy Cortez]

Couldn't do it.

[Greg Miller]

Couldn't do it.

[Blessing]

I can feel my hands hurt.

[Andy Cortez]

Oh my gosh. Oh. Oh. Oh. A vast handcrafted world just got gooseies all over the place.

[Greg Miller]

200 God damn.

[Andy Cortez]

Wait, what did that take?

[Greg Miller]

Battle over 200 ferocious foes. Oh. Vanquish over 40 legendary bosses.

[Blessing]

What?

[Greg Miller]

How many bosses were in the first one? Andy? Ish. Restore.

[Andy Cortez]

I, I, I probably beat like maybe 2:20 or something.

[Greg Miller]

Oh, she got. Oh, damn. Oh, it's like smash. Oh. Hollow night. Silk song. September.

[Blessing]

Oh, let's go.

[Andy Cortez]

Oh, Goosey.

[Greg Miller]

September 4th.

[Andy Cortez]

Goosey.

[Blessing]

Two weeks from now.

[Greg Miller]

God.

[Andy Cortez]

Oh my God.

[Greg Miller]

Why is September and October so jammed up with games?

[Andy Cortez]

God, why am I so many games right now? I'm just so excited.

[Greg Miller]

Andy. First reactions hit me.

[Andy Cortez]

I mean it's, it's what you want. Like one thing I love is them giving you info to kind of maybe tell you, hey, this is why shit got maybe so out of hand. I'm sure maybe Jason Schreier will, his article will make things a lot more clearly, make things a lot more clear. But this game was originally supposed to be a dlc and I, I can totally see the team of Team Cherry being like, this is actually getting way larger than we thought. And what if it's just its own standalone? 40 over 40 bosses is crazy. 200 enemy. Like the enemy variety is going to be off the, off the charts with this one. I just love seeing the patterns of these bosses. And I think this game, Hollow Knight does such a great job with having no dialogue but having so much personality, conveying emotions. These like, you know, the enemies will just do like, they just like make sounds like that. But the, the, they're so good at having great archetypes that you either want to befriend and then you do befriend that one person and they're sick as hell and they join you on battle and then when they bite the dust, it makes you feel like shit. Or when you see them slowly turn into something else and it just breaks your heart. I, I think that's where a lot of the magic lies with Hollow Knight. And yeah, I'm just so pumped up for all the little freaky weirdos we'll get to meet along the way.

[Greg Miller]

What'd you think? Bless.

[Blessing]

Yeah. Look beautiful, right? Like, I, I. One of the things that always grabs me about Hollow Knight, right. Even as I'm playing and I'm getting lost, I'm getting frustrated is man, this game looks beautiful. I really do like the art style, which is funny because I think when I first, first played it, I didn't love the art style, but there's something about it I think maybe getting deeper into the game because I picked it up recently again on my Steam deck a few months ago. I think the more I see the varied environments, the more I'm like, damn, this shit really hits. As far as what it's doing visually and seeing this trailer like it continues to do that.

[Andy Cortez]

You got that same deck oled?

[Blessing]

No, I don't have the oled. I think it's time for me to upgrade.

[Greg Miller]

You got that Rog?

[Blessing]

It's such a. Yeah, but I don't use the Rog. I think I just prefer the Steam Fair. Yeah. Because it's like, I think I'm so entrenched in the Steam OS of things.

[Greg Miller]

Sure.

[Blessing]

And I'm like, get all this other.

[Andy Cortez]

Stuff out of here. It's such a beautiful like OLED game.

[Blessing]

Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

Like I. And I think what one other fascinating thing, art style wise guys, is they. Since the game came out and now that we confirmed 2017, we looked it up, the. There have been like, there have been so many games that are like, oh, they're doing the Hollow Knight thing and it's the, it's the, the striking contrast of colors with the, the really, really short focus with everything blurry in the background. Like sure, sure, they have that. You know, whenever we see. When Borderlands does its cell shading with the lines and stuff and we see other games start to do that. Like they have completely made this an art style that you've seen so many other titles kind of be inspired by, which I think is really awesome.

[Blessing]

Yeah. I also like that this trailer gives me like old school video game trailer vibes. Just as far as it being like vanquish over 40 bosses, fight over 200 enemies. Right. Like, the numbering of it reminds me of like when you. Yeah. Get old games and they're. You would, you'd watch them now and let. It's like, okay, those are kind of modest numbers. Even though these ones aren't necessarily right. But like, I kind of like them throwing out the thing of, hey, this is a full game. Right. We're not just treating this like a DLC standalone thing. We are packing this in with enemies, packing this in with bosses. And like, yeah, no, I get it gets me excited. It gets me hype. And even some of the combat encounters we see. Like there was the one toward the end that gave me super Smash Bros vibes. You're doing that one on one fight on the big platform and I'm like, damn, that looks good.

[Greg Miller]

No items. Final destination.

[Blessing]

Yeah, exactly. I'm like, man, that looks fun. And so it's a great trailer.

[Andy Cortez]

Who's this little freak? Yeah. I mean there's just so many. There's so much heart in these games regarding characters and I'm like I mentioned earlier, I'm so excited to meet a lot of little weirdos and freaks along the way that you're at first maybe thrown off by you like, oh, I don't know. And then you start to kind of read their dialogue. You're like, oh, you're the man. I, I hope to run across you multiple times. And I. The original Hollow Knight was filled with a lot of characters like that as well. What'd you think, Greg?

[Greg Miller]

Gorgeous. Yeah. Again, I, I look at some of the platforming and stuff they were doing in there. I'm like, woof. You know what I mean? Like, I, I loved Celeste. Celeste was very kind to me where it would let me change stuff and run difficulty, speed around to get where I needed to be. But like this year I'm like, this is the kind of. I could see me screaming into a pillow at 4:12 at night, you know, Mad as hell.

[Andy Cortez]

I'm so excited for the Path of Pain sequel if they end up doing that. There's a section in the first game.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

Called the Path of Pain, which is a super challenging. Just like the blades are underneath you and right above you and you have just enough space for yourself to kind of maneuver through there and you're, you're kind of traversing through the. And those are all just like challenge optional areas. But those. That's the stuff that I'm super stoked to see Return.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, I'm excited to see how this all turns out on September 4th and gorgeous. Just a really well done trailer I think calling it. You know man, this reminds me of the trailers of old. That's also really accurate. A very timeless game and a very timeless trailer I think for it. Yeah. But we'll find out why this game took so long. Jason Schreier's article from Bloomberg is why Silksong took seven years to make. We're going to read some excerpts from it, answer some super chats right after we tell you about patreon.com kindafunny YouTube.com kindafunnygames, Spotify and Apple. Of course, that's where you can pick up your Kinda Funny membership to get all of our shows ad free to get your daily dose of me, Greg Miller and our exclusive podcast Greg Way. And of course get some good karma for supporting a small business. However, right now you're not using those benefits. And that benefit of course is ad free viewing. So here's a word from our sponsor.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Between busy schedules and summer plans, sometimes all you got is a couple of minutes. Factor helps so many of us here at Kinda Funny. Eat smarter with Tasty Chef prepped meals that are dietitian approved and delivered right to my door. And now, with more than 65 weekly meals made for how we live and what I like to eat, we've got even more ways to fit in a real meal wherever the day takes us. On many occasions, Factor has completely saved Greg and Jen when they needed it most. Choose from a wider selection of weekly meal options, including premium seafood choices like salmon and shrimp at no extra cost. Eat smart@Factor Meals.com kindafunny50 offer and use code kinda funny50OFF to get 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for one year. That's code kinda funny50OFF@Factor Meals.com for 50% off your first box plus FREE breakfast for one year. Get delicious ready to eat meals delivered with Factor offer only. Valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase.

This episode's brought to you by Shady Rays. You know that moment, the one when you realized you left your favorite pair of sunglasses at the beach? We've all been there. I'll never forget leaving my incredibly overpriced sunglasses at a restaurant in Santa Monica. That was 13 years ago and it still haunts me to this day. But then I found Shady Rays and everything changed. Seriously good looking, polarized, durable and not stupidly expensive. And here's the wild part. If you lose or break them even on Day one Shady Rays will send you a brand new pair. No guilt trip, just replacements. So now you can actually wear your sunglasses without fear. Y' all know I've been outside in the sun a lot playing Pokemon Go and it's such a great experience wearing Shady Rays when I'm all out and about. Shady Rays is eyewear that has your back. We've teamed up with Shady Rays to bring you an exclusive offer. Check this out. You can head to shadyrays.com use code funny for 35% off polarized sunglasses, try for yourself the shades rated 5 stars by over 300,000 people. Shady rays use the code funny this episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. Our frames are the perfect way to relive your favorite memories that you created throughout this beautiful, beautiful summer season. No lie. Our frames are undeniably the best gift I have ever given family, friends, partners. Everyone loves being able to have beautiful frames showing off their loved ones and their favorite memories. Our frames are incredibly smart and easy to use, allowing you to upload unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. Plus the coolest thing, you can order the frame online and preload it with photos and videos using the Aura app so it's ready to go right out of the box when you give it to someone. There's unlimited storage so you can store as many photos and videos as you can find. And it's so simple to set up. Start reliving your favorite memories by visiting araframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get $35 off their best selling Carver Matte frame. That's a U R A frames.com promo code. Kinda funny. Support the show by mentioning us at check out terms and conditions apply. Our frames.com kind of funny.

[Greg Miller]

And we're back. And as we often do on Games Daily, we'll turn our eyes to the one, the only Jason Schreier over at Bloomberg, who of course teased when Team Cherry announced this that he would have a big story about everything going on over there. And he does. We go to Bloomberg why Silksong Took seven Years to make it's surreal to write, but it's true. Silksong will be out on September 4 after six years of near total silence from the developers and enough feverish anticipation to make it the most wish listed game on Steam. The sequel to the indie hit Hollow Knight, is releasing in two weeks. Team Cherry, the small team behind both games, announced the news Thursday in a trailer. Why did it take so long? Often such protracted development cycles are caused by mismanagement and result in painful burnout among the staff. But speaking to me last week on a video call from their office in Adelaide, Australia, Team Cherry co founders Ari Gibson and William Pellen said that making Silksong has been nothing but a joyful process. We've been having fun, gibson said. This whole thing is just a vehicle for our creativity anyway. It's nice to make fun things. The lengthy production wasn't the result of development challenges or obstacles. They said they just needed all these years to ensure that Silksong was exactly the game they wanted to make. It was never stuck or anything, gibson said. It was always progressing. It's just the case that we are a small team and games take a lot of time. There wasn't a big controversial moment behind it. Hollow Knight has been a massive. No, I'm sorry. Hollow Knight had been massive. And their plan at outset was to build a smaller world for Silksong. To ensure that the game felt just as deep, they'd implement an elaborate quest system that would offer the player reasons to backtrack and revisit old locations. In contrast to Hollow Knight, which had a single town full of shops and characters to meet, there would also be multiple towns, each serving as a hub for quests. Even at that point, we were recognizing that it was going to become another giant thing to rival the scale of Hollow Knight or probably exceed it, Gibson said. And then because of how we work, obviously the world ended up being just as big or bigger and the quest system existed and the multiple towns existed. Suddenly you end up six, seven years later. Quote Andy that's got to be music to your ears.

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah, that sounds. That sounds awesome. And again, a smaller team trying to not out punch their weight, but then realizing like man, we have so much stuff that we can possibly cook with. We have so many new ideas and kind of man, I'm not sure if it was your.

[Greg Miller]

If.

[Andy Cortez]

If it was the Elder Scrolls Online podcast that you did Greg.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

Where one of the stories was like well suddenly you out of town. And then it's like that's like now x more stuff. Yeah. And yeah to. To hear that, that's super encouraging. Just knowing that this going. This is going to be so content rich. Like obviously it's taken this long. There's gonna. This is gonna be a long game. I think at least I'd put it on the same sort of area of time to beat as Hollow Knight. Like I think this would be a. If you main path it maybe 25 or 30 hours or if you do everything 40 bosses is a lot. And you have to think about all the traversal and secrets and uncovering that will revolve around 40 bosses. And you know, try to do your dev math and add several hours onto that. Like it's. This is going to be a chunker of a video game that's super exciting as you.

[Greg Miller]

That was just an excerpt from Jason's excellent reporting as always over on Bloomberg. I'm paging through. Of course, Roger built that for us so we could have it. I like this quote here later in the article. Right. This is Pellen quote. There's a level of finish that has to be met throughout the entire game. All the way the systems interact, all the hidden work that pops up later on. It's multiplicative. As you add stuff, the process of trying it, tying it all back together just increases. End quote. Blessing. How's that sound to you?

[Blessing]

Yeah, I think that sounds realistic. And I. The thing that I, I like about the way that they're talking about this and the way it seems their development has gone is I. It's so much in contrast to the conversations we have in regards to AAA games and how, how those come together and how you gotta. We gotta make a live service because we gotta keep bringing in money. Oh, we have people to satisfy, whether it's shareholders, whether it's people at the top or whatever. Right. Like money needs to keep bringing in or coming in. So we don't have time to take our time to work on something that is curated that is, you know, meticulously thought out and planned. It's something that can be a masterpiece. Right. Like, I think that's something that is only afforded by such a few number of developers in the AAA space. Whereas, you know, I like that Team Cherry post putting out the first Hollow knight and making this has gone, hey, let's. Let's make something that we can stand by and something that's going to be our dream or something that at least, at the very least we believe in. And so for them to talk about. Oh yeah, we have these systems that then are feeding into these other things and like, we want to take our time. That way we can actually have those things be as fully fleshed out as they should be. Right. We want to see that full vision come to fruition. I think that's absolutely fantastic. I think this is such a nice thing to hear.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, this is. I mean, I can't urge you enough always to support Jason over at Bloomberg, but as I'm reading through this, you want to talk about Just like an amazing article, like an amazing team here as you talk to Gibson and Pellen and how like Gibson and Pellen about how small they are and how they wanted to stay that small and they just didn't want to lose the fun and obviously the success of this game and why they didn't have to do this, blah, blah. Gibson says we don't want to mess with the formula and then find out it's not fun. I used to, I used to manage teams in past lives. I don't really want to do that ever again, end quote. You talk about developers living the dream and doing again, the opposite. Now, granted, the outrageous success of Hollow Knight is what allows them to do this. Right? Where they can sit there and take as long as they want with this and go on. Right. They're talking about it in this fact. When the studio announced silksong in February 2019, Hollow Knight had sold 2.8 million. I'm sorry. The game has sold another 12 million copies since then, allowing Team Cherry to keep working on the sequel indefinitely without having to worry about running out of funds. Gibson says we're very lucky in that regard. I don't really, I don't really think about it that much. Maybe that's the privilege of it, end quote. Which of course it is. But how would a. To sit there and have that success and then go, we're going to stay this. We're going to stay Matt and Trey from South Park. We're not going to bring in 30 more people to make this studio to do our dream is making fun games by ourselves. And that's totally fine. To have a small thing and take this much time for it. Congratulations.

[Andy Cortez]

What were those numbers at home?

[Greg Miller]

Because I want to make sure I'm not screwing this up. Because they bring in.

[Andy Cortez]

Because in 2019 they announced that they had hit like the 2.5 million mark or something.

[Blessing]

I think so. They think they said 12 million since then.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah. So hold on, let me. I'm going to read the paragraph before because I thought I was missing context. Okay. Thanks to the first game's massive financial success, Gibson and Pellen no longer have to scrounge for leftovers. For Pellen, who has two kids and a third on the way, that's provided an inestimable peace of mind. Yeah, an inestimable peace of mind. For Gibson, who said he spends most of his time at the office, it hasn't changed much. Quote, I live in a very basic two bedroom apartment, he said. Sometimes I think, you know, what would be Better is a one bedroom apartment, because then there's even less to maintain.

[Blessing]

That's so funny.

[Greg Miller]

The game has continued to generate revenue by reaching new players, perhaps in large part due to Silksong's buzz. When the studio announced silksong in February 2019, Hollow Knight had just had sold 2.8 million copies. So in 2019, 2.8 million copies. The game has sold another 12 million copies since then, allowing Team Cherry to keep working on the sequel indefinitely without having to.

[Blessing]

15 million about in total. Good for them.

[Greg Miller]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

Three people.

[Greg Miller]

Two.

[Andy Cortez]

Two people.

[Greg Miller]

Well, I mean, that's Pellen. And now maybe I missed in the front when they were talking about how.

[Blessing]

Big as I was googling it seemed like, yeah, there's three people.

[Greg Miller]

My apologies. My apologies.

[Blessing]

Which is. Come on.

[Andy Cortez]

That's awesome.

[Blessing]

Yeah.

[Greg Miller]

Okay. Yeah. It all came down to their development style, which has been too much fun. Gibson and Pellen, who were joined by programmer Jack vine, composer Chris Larkin and a few contractors who help programming and testing. Start off by designing the core plane.

[Andy Cortez]

That's that.

[Blessing]

So when they say small team, it's extremely small team.

[Andy Cortez]

That is fantastic. I was always under the assumption that it was a 15 to 25. That is insane for a team that small to be taking on a behemoth like this.

[Greg Miller]

We have lots of super chats to get through, but one thing I think is interesting for our neck of the woods, when you talk about games journalism, Jason had two BS's. That's blue sky, Tim. In case you're wondering. Team Cherry told me they don't plan on sending out early codes for Silksong. Parentheses. They felt like it'd be unfair for critics to be playing before Kickstarter backers and other players. End quote, end parentheses. So don't expect to see reviews until after the games comes out. Jason follows up. For what it's worth, I don't think that's the only reason. They also mentioned that it take a lot of time to get codes and distribute them, et cetera. And they're a tiny team with lots to do in the next two weeks.

[Andy Cortez]

Pop agenda. Get him on it.

[Greg Miller]

Or any other third party student. You were not saying they have to work with my wife's company. Any other company.

[Andy Cortez]

Any other company. I get it. On it.

[Blessing]

I mean, that second reason I like more than the first reason. Right. But I also understand the idea of like, yo, we've been slaving away at this thing for six years. We're a team of three. We finally hit the finish line. We're ready to release it like, and we're going to release it in two weeks. This is one of those scenarios where I'm not necessarily mad at the no early review codes because like the fans that are excited for this game, they're going to play the game, they're going to get, they're going to go for it anyway.

[Greg Miller]

Let's, I mean, let's wade into the conversation of what review codes are. Review codes are marketing. They want you to know the game is good. They are working with a marketing company, PR company to go out and share these codes so that there's a buzz. So that if you weren't paying attention to this game, you got an 8.5 from IGN, I should go check it out. Blah, blah, blah, blah. This game does not need that. This game like they are succeeding. They are fucking crushing. Exceeding doesn't even like isn't the tip of the iceberg. They are the best case scenario. They are the sequel in so many ways. To Shovel Knight. They don't need a PR campaign. They just fucking own the Internet today doing this. They own Jeff Keighley every show that's happening. They don't need it. This is. I, yeah, I can't tell you how much I respect the now. Everybody's waited for this game so long. We don't need people coming out and saying it's good, bad or the other. Let's just get it to people's hands and let them play.

[Blessing]

I also think it's. It works the other way too where this game is going to get reviews, right? And instead of having the reviews be the day before launch or whatever, they're going to be a few weeks after. Maybe a week after.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Blessing]

And then you're going to get another bump of good press. Especially if the reviews come out and they're like 10 out of 10, like fantastic, over 90 on Metacritic and all that shit, right? Like, I think they're, they're navigating this and riding this wave really well. Especially with it coming to Game Pass. I think that's going to be like, not everybody has Game Pass, of course, but I think that does help as far as the review thing of the reason why you want reviews is so people can have these educated or can make these educated purchases. If you have Game Pass, guess what, like you're not paying as uneducated as you want form your opinion yourself or, or if you're a fan, like hop into this thing that you've been waiting so long for and then you get that extra wave a few weeks later. When it is all these reviews are in. Fuck this guy. This has tens now. I got to check it out. Right. Like I think that's going to do well for them.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, I think this is going to topple down the mountainside for years to come. If it's as good as we think it's going to be. But do you think it will be as good as we think it all might be? Many super chats wrote in of course to chime in on what we were talking about. Expectations you still can if you want and are watching on YouTube.com kindafunnygames as soon as I said that it flipped out. Hold on. I wanted to go back to Zip Zap Perette. Where'd it go? Oh my God, it's frozen. Zip Zap. I can't see you. There it goes. Maybe.

[Blessing]

I mean I'm seeing zip Zack. Oh, it is frozen.

[Greg Miller]

Why is it freaking out?

[Blessing]

Zip Zap says I think it'll meet die hard expectations but disappointing for casual hype watchers.

[Greg Miller]

Interesting.

[Blessing]

I, yeah, that's a question I'll throw to Andy.

[Andy Cortez]

Right.

[Blessing]

Like do you think the people that may have played Hollow Knight or tried Hollow Knight and fell off or people who don't already have interest in Hollow Knight, do you think this will be something that might bring them in? I, I don't kind of.

[Andy Cortez]

I don't disagree with that super chat, honestly. I think that this could be one of those that if this, if this genre isn't necessarily your. But you are buying in on the hype anyway and you do try it out. I think it could be like a. Oh, this is what all the buzz is about. Yeah, you know, it's a side scroller whatever. Like I, I could see the. Exactly what the super chatter said. The hardcores and the people who love difficult games or souls likes or just love Hollow Knight being like oh my God, it is as good as we were hoping. Kind of like Night Rain DLC or not Night Rain DLC Shadow of the Erdtree DLC coming out and being like there's no way that they could. Oh they did, yeah. From software is just that good. I think it'll hit that level with the hardcores like they mentioned. But I could totally see casuals who maybe aren't in it. Like they like the hardcores are playing it and being like ah, the side scroller whatever, you know, I mean it's.

[Blessing]

A. I think it's an interesting one to think about because It's a Metroidvania 2D action game which isn't the most inaccessible genre, right? Like, I think that's a genre that appeals to a lot of people, especially hardcore gamers, right? Like, if you like games that let you explore and let you get into combat, all this shit, which is a lot of games, right? Like that. I think naturally a lot of those things should appeal. And I'm saying this as somebody who Hollow Knight originally wasn't appealing to me. I think there's a difference between that and like, when I hop on the hype train for Monster Hunter and I play Monster Hunter, I'm like, oh, damn, this is. It's just a too different of a video game. My brain just does not vibe with this thing. I think Hollow Knight hits this place where if you're a hype train hopper, like, yeah, I could see. I could see you trying this out and not enjoying it, just like that happened for me. I can also see it happening the other way around where how many people hopped on the hype train for Monster Hunter and now they're like fog? This shit is actually really good, right? I. I think it works both ways. I think we're going to see a lot of people get into it.

[Andy Cortez]

I'm mostly fascinated to see how Tim rocks with it because I. Tim loves Metroidvanias, but I think that Hollow Knight is soulsy enough in its obtuse storytelling. And did he, did he, did he.

[Greg Miller]

Get with the first one?

[Andy Cortez]

I don't know if he ever fully tried it.

[Greg Miller]

Got it.

[Andy Cortez]

But I, I could see this game also. And it's one of those things where for the person who may not be into games like that, with how they're telling stories or how they're doing mechanics or, or, you know, people who are expecting the, the waypoint on the map to pop up. All that sort of Handholdy type stuff. I. For a certain amount of the audience who plays a game that doesn't hold your hand in that way, that could be a really special experience to go like, oh, I'm kind of figuring this out on my own. And this feels like such an organic learning experience where I'm not only learning how to play the game and how to fight enemies, but I really, really dig this sort of. Every mechanic is the way it is because of what the story is doing. You know, like how every mechanic in, in Dark Souls or, or Elden Ring has a purpose. It's not just, you know, take a health stim or whatever. It's like the flask means this and that and it's coming for, you know, like everything Has a purpose. And I think that. That. I think there will be some people that will be turned on to that because of the hype of this game, that maybe we're more Tim adjacent in terms of taste, where it's like, now you got to give me the waypoints. You got to give me the. All the checkpoints, fast travel right off the rip. Give me a double jump. Give me all that immediately. I think it could hit with some people who maybe haven't had an experience like that. And it goes. Oh, shit. This kind of gets me excited about video games again.

[Greg Miller]

Interesting. I like that a lot. As we wade through again, all these super chats. Thank you so much. I like this one up here. Played. This is inner jet stream. Played. Hollow Knight on Switch, near release. Hollow Knight is my favorite game, hands down. It made me fall in love with Metroidvanias. The premiere had me in tears. It's finally real, y'.

[Andy Cortez]

All.

[Greg Miller]

I love in our industry when there's that kind of relief when the thing you've been waiting for is actually happening now and it's there. I love seeing that right now in the streets. People go out and celebrate.

[Blessing]

That's dope.

[Andy Cortez]

What do you think the next. I mean, well, Half Life threes are always been there, but what do you think the next GTA 6.

[Greg Miller]

You're talking about the next big anticipated game?

[Andy Cortez]

No, but I mean, like the next thing that it's like, will it get canceled? Will it. Is it even real?

[Greg Miller]

I mean, clearly fair games. Oh, nobody cares about it. I am, because I want to be right when I said this game's never coming out.

[Blessing]

Like, what's one of those ones that people will actually care about? I mean, I think it'll be. It'll have to be announced as like a sequel to maybe like one of.

[Greg Miller]

Those Fable Kingdom hearts, but Bioshock, Mass Effect, those are all great. Maybe Wolverine. What the fuck is going on?

[Blessing]

What's the next big Larian game? You know, I mean, I feel like there's something like that of.

[Greg Miller]

So you want. You're talking about. They have to have the juice of, like, this studio I'm ride or die for. And they've announced their next project.

[Andy Cortez]

And yeah, their prior game had to have been a massive banger. And it gets announced, and then five years go by and we're like, dog, where is that shit? And you just start to wonder and you start to, you know, go through all the scenarios in your head.

[Blessing]

Could have been Earth Blade, but they can cancel.

[Andy Cortez]

You're so right. That's a good one.

[Greg Miller]

Andy, let me bring this one in for you. All right. Raymond K. Hessel, super chats and says my favorite Metroidvanias are Guacamelee, Ori and the Lost Crown. Ori and Lost Crown. Where does Hollow Knight fit in Yalls list for must play. And what are your other must play shout outs?

[Andy Cortez]

I think Lost Crown is. Is definitely a must play. Metroidvania. I only played Guacamelee back in the day on like, was it an. I guess it was like Xbox Live Arcade or whatever it was called. Like, I. I never fully got through that game back in the day. And that was in my weird. I'm not really gaming period because I'm just so busy with work and school. But I would say Lost Crown is a must play. Metroidvania. Just from a. Just from a mechanic standpoint. That's whenever we would talk about. It's like, dude, this is the game that you show people. You show students and game designers and people getting into the industry of like, this is how you make a Metroidvania and how you make all the systems kind of seamlessly intertwined with each other. I would put.

[Greg Miller]

Axiom Verge.

[Andy Cortez]

Ooh, Axiom Verge is a phenomenal one.

[Greg Miller]

It's funny now because, like, Nick Streams and games and. But like, that was the first game while working at. Kind of funny that Nick was like obsessed with and they're like, axiom Verge, like, it's awesome, it's great. You know what I mean? But like, that's the one you're all about. Nick.

[Andy Cortez]

Axiom Verge is a phenomenal Metroidvania choice of just. Yeah. Similar to whenever Metroidvania kind of stuns you and wows you with like, oh, that's what this ability does. And now these enemies are being affected this way. That's so smart. Yeah, I just love. I love when. When developers are smart, man.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, no, yeah.

[Andy Cortez]

When I'm impressed in that way, it's like, oh, dude, you're so good at this. Yeah.

[Greg Miller]

Yep, yep.

[Blessing]

That was me playing Metroid Prime. Like, Metroid prime gave me certain abilities where I'm like, fuck, that's what that. Like when they give you the ability to kind of like go faster when you're in the ball mode and that helps you on like these half pipe type shit. They're like, I didn't. I never clocked that as a. Oh, I could do. I can like go up these and build speed and that'll get me to another spot. What it is, it opens your third eye and you're seeing the world different. That's when Metroidvanias come together for me. And I feel like that's a good one. That's like a special amount of Metroidvanias are able to hit that feeling for me.

[Andy Cortez]

Maybe Metroid Prime 4 is the next big game.

[Greg Miller]

God, maybe.

[Blessing]

I can't wait. Somebody says animal well I with animal well.

[Andy Cortez]

Animal well is good. Animal is very good. Animal is very non traditional. So I would say like it's not for everybody, I don't think. Especially anybody who's like, yeah, I love principals of Lost Crown. I love cool abilities and combat stuff. Like it is definitely the. The artsy Metroidvania in terms of how it does mechanics, but that's also a ridiculously smart video game.

[Greg Miller]

This is an interesting take that. I don't agree.

[Andy Cortez]

Oh, blasphemous 2. Let me just throw that out real quick. Blasphemous 2 not the Last of Us 2. Blasphemous 2 is the game kitchen developers who just did Ninja Guy and Ragebound. And that that game is not only stunning art wise where they're doing pixel art with a tiniest amount of pixels and doing animations and you're just like, whoa, this must have taken so long to do. But the mechanics in that game and how everything sings together, it's also one of these sort of souls like Hollow Knight games in terms of, you know, all of the conditional things that I love in video games where, well, if you wear that hat and you go talk to her, she hates people that wear that hat. You know, like that sort of. I love that in video games and whenever you can experience that, you feel like you are experiencing something not everybody else has experienced and it just feels so special. But yeah, this game is unfucking believable. Combat wise, boss fight wise, but also like exploration and what they're doing with all of the NPCs, it's unbelievable.

[Greg Miller]

Hollow like Killian C Super Chats and says it's good. They're seeming it's good. There seemingly wasn't terrible shit behind the scenes at Team Cherry, but as a dev myself, what Team Cherry just described as mismanagement in terms of how they were making their own game. Cloister Super Chats in response to counter the other comment, I disagree with it being mismanagement. They got to do what they want and take their time doing it. We don't need milestones and tickets and whatever. So I'm happy for them. I'm way more with Cloister on This one of, like, this is the argument we have all the time of art versus business and milestones and vertical slices and cutting 20% of your game because you got to get it out. Like, that is the when we all bitch and moan about capitalism and big corporation, big publisher, making you get your game out from the little developer. These developers that were able to be so successful, their initial vision to then take seven years to make their next vision, Fuck yeah. Good for them.

[Andy Cortez]

I would only qualify this as mismanagement if it were a team of 30. And three years ago, they had to lay off six people, and then two years ago, they laid off eight people, and then they hired extra people the next year. And then you heard stories about, oh, is it canceled? Like, that's what I think of when I think of mismanagement. To me, this is just three friends with a couple of contractors doing things at their own speed, at their own pace, and doing what they want to do without the oversight of somebody saying, like, all right, get this.

[Blessing]

Yeah, we need the money now.

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah. I, I, to me, this is just like three dudes hanging out, making a thing that they wanted.

[Greg Miller]

This is art because they love the art that they can do. And again, mismanage. You would be like, oh, man, we took so long, we had to lay people off or we lost the house. They're sitting there with money to burn. They can do whatever the they want.

[Blessing]

Yeah. It doesn't even sound like they restarted the game 18 times or something like that. Like, if that was the case, then maybe there's a conversation of, like, oh, man, is there a better way to do this process? But it sounds like, yeah, they just took their time. And I'm even somebody who, when it comes to ip, one of the things right now with video games where we see games take forever to come out, and it's like, oh, man, I'm waiting forever for the next Horizon sequel. And they ended on a cliffhanger. I think that is a problem. But I don't think that applies to this. Right. This is a small indie team making a hollow knight. I was going to say hollow knight, but Hollow Knight Silk song. Right. And I don't think this is a thing of, oh, damn. Like, the fans are. The clock is on. Like, you got to finish the story. You got to do whatever. It's like, no, we're. Yeah, we're taking our time with the next thing, which I think is very admirable.

[Greg Miller]

I'm not even, like, fighting as a character, being crazy. 8080 HD and 4K says there's a middle ground though for sure. Seven years for a game like this is pretty crazy. Says who? Yeah, what are you, who's, whose expectations are you foisting? Like how long did it take to make any piece of art ever? Like you can you do it faster? Like, and I'm not even like they make, they're making exactly what they want.

[Blessing]

Yeah. I mean if you make a, like I think across art, right. Like whether it's an album, whether it's a 10 out of 10 movie, a 10 out of 10 novel that you've written. Right.

[Greg Miller]

If you Showdown championship.

[Blessing]

Whether it's winning the game. Showdown championship. Course, if you take a decade to make it and it comes out and it's a 10 out of 10 and all the people that worked on it are, we're happy with that work environment and feel good.

[Greg Miller]

Which does not happen in AAA development.

[Blessing]

Yeah, like, yeah. How is that not a win?

[Andy Cortez]

Yeah, there's no bigger success story than what they have been doing. Like I, yeah, I, I don't take a, like seven years to make this. It's like that, that comment sounds like such a. But there's no ray tracing or 3D graphics. Like, and I'm not saying that's what you're saying but like I, I, I don't like the thought that a small ass team can work at their own pace because, because they're not desperate to put something out to appease shareholders. I love that. It's just, yeah, we'll make it and it's done when it's done and we don't really need to, you know, if, if we, if Jason Shrier's article comes out it's like, well the game was supposed to be, you know, a co op roguelite and then we change plans midway through and then it was going to be a third, you know, a 3D beat em up and then we sort of like scrap that. It's like nah man, this is just people making what they want to make at their own pace.

[Blessing]

ADHD and 4K and chat did say all right, I'm convinced I changed my mind.

[Greg Miller]

Oh good. Thank you for being reasonable and listening. It's fun to have conversations. Our final super chat for the day on gamescast because you still have games daily. Up next comes from Matthew Morales who says birthday tax here guys. Thanks for all the laughs and fun birthdays.

[Blessing]

Happy Birthday.

[Greg Miller]

Happy birthday Matthew.

[Andy Cortez]

Now let's cancel the rest of the day and go play Silksong.

[Greg Miller]

Can't review codes everybody. Thank you for watching this. Games cast with our live reactions breaks down to this of course. 94 that's 9-4-Tim. You can get your hands on Hollow Knight Silk Song. We'll be playing and I'm sure streaming it that day, giving you reviews in progress before we get wrapped up there. But remember, if you want all of our reviews, previews and topics we need to talk about. Like subscribe, share everywhere. Kinda Funny is whether it be YouTube.com kindafunnygames, Twitch TV, kindafunnygames, Apple, Spotify, any other podcast service. Do that, leave a review, share with your friends. If you got Amazon prime, you got Twitch Prime. Give it to us. Of course, if you want to go that extra mile, support an 11 person small business chasing their dream, we don't care how long it takes us to make a show. You can go to patreon.com kind of funny YouTube.com kindafunnygames, Apple or Spotify to pick up the Kinda Funny membership. Get all of our shows ad free. Get your daily dose of me in a series I call Greg Way. And of course get good karma. For now, it's time to move into games daily before we move into Alien vs Predator, before we move into Balatro. So until next time, it's been our pleasure to serve you.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got a seat close enough to actually see and hear them. Sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to Travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.