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Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast
Insomniac's Ted Price on Retirement, Resistance 4 - Kinda Funny Gamescast
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- [00:01]
Ted Price
Exclusively on ESPN. UFC 312 Saturday. Reigning middleweight champion Dricus Du Plessis defends his title in a rematch against Sean Strickland. And Zhang Weili defends her strawweight title against undefeated tatiana Suarez.
- [00:18]
Greg Miller
UFC 312 Saturday at 10pm Eastern.
- [00:23]
Ted Price
Buy it on espnplus.com ppb.
- [00:38]
Greg Miller
What'S up everybody? Welcome to the Kinda Funny Games cast for Friday, February 7, 2025. I'm your host Greg Miller with a very special episode of the Kinda Funny Gamescast where I'll be interviewing soon to be unemployed Ted Price. You probably know him as co founder of Insomniac. Of course he's about to go into the Academy of Interactive Arts and science. Yes, AIAs is how I say it because it's the people who do dice. So I'm always saying AIAs. So when I have to say it out, I have to think really hard. The Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences. Ted's going into the hall of Fame there at the DICE Awards where I'll be hosting it alongside Stella on Thursday, February 13th. So we said hey Ted, come on by, talk about this and let's have a great time. And Ted said I can do that, but I don't have all the time in the world. And I said I can make 40 minutes work, don't worry. And then I went long cause I'm recording this later. Don't worry about it. But first I'm here to tell you this is the Kind of Funny Games cast. Each and every weekday we run you through the biggest topics in video games, whether they be reviews, previews or interviews. If you like that, pick up a Kind of Funny membership either on patreon.com kind to funny or YouTube.com kind of funny games or Spotify or Apple. What it gets you is good karma. You're supporting an 11 person small business of course, but you're also getting all of our shows ad free. You're getting the ability to watch the afternoon podcast like in reviewing the Kind of Funny podcast as we record them. And you're getting your daily dose of me, Greg Miller in a series I call Greg Way Housekeeping for you. Of course we aren't live right now. This is pre recorded because of Ted's schedule. So instead of the usual YouTube super chats you could give us, which gets you on the show. I've pulled blue skies, I plewed plu'd threads, I plewed tweets. I got everything from you. Thank you for supporting me and following me. Housekeeping, you already got Kinda Funny games daily before this with the nerdy news you need to know about. I bet all the news is great. There's a lot of turmoil in the industry every day and then the stream after this is supposed to be blessing playing Dark Souls for the first time but I'm recording this on Tuesday and you know how kinda funny works. We'll see what's happening on Friday. If you're a kinda funny member, of course you can get Greg way Thank you to our Patreon producers Delaney Twining and Carl Jacobs. Today we're brought to you by OURA Frames but we'll tell you about that later. For now let's talk about Ted Price insomniac and going into the AIAS hall of fame in what we call topic of the show. Tots. Tots. Tots. Tots. Tots. Tots. Tots. Tots. Tots. Really need you to say Tots with me, Rog. Oh, I didn't realize that it's weird when I say Tots all alone. That's weird. Okay, let's try it again. Try again. Ted Price. Oh, you're weird. You're doing a weird voice and you didn't do. Here's the interview as I live and breathe. Ted Price. Welcome to the show, Ted.
- [03:14]
Ted Price
Thanks Greg.
- [03:15]
Greg Miller
How are you?
- [03:16]
Ted Price
I'm doing great.
- [03:18]
Greg Miller
Has senioritis set in? Are you just your feet on the desk just throwing ball trash in there. You're playing hoops. What are you doing?
- [03:25]
Ted Price
I thought you were asking if I forget things all the time that we.
- [03:29]
Greg Miller
All have at this point, that's too late, that's long gone. No, you're wrapping up 30 years after CO founding Insomniac. What does that mean Right now as you barrel towards March being the end.
- [03:40]
Ted Price
Of the run, it really means being an advisor. As Chad Design and Jen Huang and Ryan Schneider step forward to be co studio heads.
- [03:49]
Greg Miller
Sure.
- [03:49]
Ted Price
And we all of us have worked together for a long, long time but they have been taking over actually for quite a while. Many of the things that I typically do. So I'm spending a lot of time talking to all the insomniacs and sharing thoughts and helping out where I can.
- [04:07]
Greg Miller
What is that been like? Obviously you've been at the studio for so long since you co founded it, you've gone through all these different seasons there to be there now ready to pass the baton to just be advising, to be seeing, I assume them planting the seeds for what comes next. What do you have right now emotionally going on?
- [04:32]
Ted Price
Well, what I feel mostly is a continued strong connection to all the insomniacs because I've spent. I just spent a lot of time and have for the last all 30 years, one on one with insomniacs and asking, how are you doing? What are the things that we need to work on? What are some thoughts that you have for in terms of how we can improve? That really hasn't changed other than I am more of a collector and I share what I learn with the rest of my team. And again, that isn't much different than what has happened for a long time. I just have a little bit more time to spend than I usually do with insomniacs. And this is sort of a. It's nice for me because a long time ago when we were all in the office together, I would spend a lot of time walking around and talking to people face to face and asking the same question, how are you doing now? It's via Zoom and it's my last opportunity to really connect with a lot of folks that I've gotten to know well over the last several decades.
- [05:38]
Greg Miller
You talk about being the last opportunity. Has that set in? Like, are you like having those moments of like, oh man, this is the final time I'm going to do X or Y or looking and seeing, you know, that we're running out of road here?
- [05:52]
Ted Price
Well, not really because I don't think I'm ever going to be fully disconnected from games or insomniac. I am truly retiring from the industry. However, I'm going to join the ranks of players and we'll be playing our games and playing other people's games and enjoying them as much or more than I have in the past. And when I come back to California, I do plan to stop in and say hello to the team and as really a fan. So I don't feel like it's truly a disconnection or a goodbye. It's more that I'm shifting into fan status.
- [06:27]
Greg Miller
Why was the time now, why after 30 years was this the time to step away?
- [06:32]
Ted Price
I think that Insomniac has continued to grow and evolve and there are so many insomniacs who have stepped up in a leadership position to have awesome ideas who can take the company further than I believe I can take it now. And I thought it was important to make space for people and to help us continue to take these big steps as we tackle more complex games, more games themselves, and just deal with a changing environment.
- [07:06]
Greg Miller
So, you know, you've been vocal, you've talked about it, your, your, you know, your post about leaving was about you. And you just said leaving the industry, of course, still being a player, still being a fan, still being all these things, but actually, like, leaving games. Like, is that a revolutionary idea to you? How does your family, your friends, how do they feel about this? Of, like, I think you know, for us, right, the players, the people who know you through the screen, through the PlayStation presentations, through blog posts, we know you so much as the games guy. Like, you are Insomniac. Do you feel that? Does games define you? Like, how. Where do you do? Are you struggling with what the next step is or why? Leaving games altogether?
- [07:47]
Ted Price
Not really. I feel like teams define me. I've always been on teams throughout my entire life. I've played on a lot of sports teams. I've been in various other types of teams. And Insomniac for me has been from the very beginning a team effort. And it hasn't. Even though people often see me associated with Insomniac and give me a heck of a lot more credit than I'm due, the reason Insomniac succeeds is because of all of the people who are constantly contributing ideas. It isn't about me. So I don't feel from my perspective that anything is going to change. However, from. I understand from an outside perspective, it may look like things are changing, but that's just not the case. It just happens to be that I've been the default person that people tend to see more frequently. That's just going to. That's going to change. But it doesn't mean anything in terms of what we produce or how we produce it.
- [08:37]
Greg Miller
You talk about teams, you talk about Insomniac, you talk about this legacy, what you've built there, and even just the checking in, I would want to know, how have you maintained that from starting Insomniac to where it is now? Because I think, you know, we. I put up questions, obviously, we usually do them on super chats. We're recording to tape today. So I put up questions across social media and so many people wrote in asking about, like, how you do that. Like, I love this one from Michael Gulliver. Well, as an Xbox fan, I. I'll be forever grateful for Sunset Overdrive, of course, but for all the other Insomniac games as well. My question, Ted, is how do you set and maintain such a high bar for quality and output while harboring a positive and nurturing work culture that Insomniac is known for? And before you even answer that, I think if you're just a casual gamescast listener, you need to know that as long as I've been doing this 18 years, Insomniac has always been what I would call a bastion of this, where people talk about how great it is to work at Insomniac, how much they care for their employees, how hands on Ted is. And obviously we see a tumultuous industry in 2025. The fact that you've been able as a small business, I understand maintaining that and doing that with 11 people, but to grow and grow and grow the way Insomniac has. I'd love to hear Ted, how you've both done it in Simon's question, but in me just continue to be this not safe space. It's a business and it's hard and things happen, but this place that is able to be ahead of the curve, I think on taking care of their employees.
- [10:03]
Ted Price
Thanks for saying that, Greg. And I appreciate the question too. I think it's. For us at Insomniac, it has been really useful to have a vision that encapsulates why we do what we do. And that vision is to create games that have a lasting and positive impact on people's lives. And we've been doing that, I believe, from the very beginning. And even though we weren't specific or explicit about that vision for a while, it was how we attracted people. It was sort of the gestalt of the studio. And eventually we memorialized it and it became a rallying cry consistently, which meant, not that we weren't just making games for players so that we could have a lasting and positive impact on players. It also meant that we were very. We're passionate about having a positive impact on Insomniacs, people who join us. For me personally, I love the creative process. I love working with people and experiencing that kind of magic that you get when we are all doing away the problem collectively and coming up with a solution that we all feel good about. That's the kind of zilaration that to me, typifies the creative process at Insomnia. And I wanted that selfishly to be. I wanted to be surrounded by that. So for me, it was really important to ensure that from the very beginning we involved as many people as possible and the big decisions we made. And we're extremely transparent about why we were doing things so that there wasn't any mystery about why we were deciding to do one thing or another. And what was great about what has been great about that process is in the best cases, it provides a lot of ownership for folks on the team who Want to be engaged, who want to make a difference for players. And it helps us all unify behind a game direction, a game feature, the company vision, you name it. So it's that collaborative feel that really I've personally been excited about and motivated by from the very beginning.
- [12:08]
Greg Miller
Why do you think that's such a struggle at other places, other developers, other publishers?
- [12:13]
Ted Price
I don't know. I haven't been a part of another developer or publisher. I feel like it actually is. I talk to a lot of people who come from other development teams or other publishers and will express their team oriented experiences and what they like the most. They often bring those experiences and new suggestions to us to help us get better in the same field. So I gotta say I think our industry is one of the few industries where this collaboration, this building of different skill sets, different backgrounds is welcomed and encouraged. And it stands out to me in a world that has really become very divided. And I think, I believe it results in the kinds of games that make an impact on players. I see it all the time, not just at Insomniac, but all over the industry, of course.
- [13:07]
Greg Miller
Yeah, I mean, hear, hear. I think that's very well said to your point of, you know, making an impact, making lasting and positive impact. Two of the write ins that stood out to me were funny. One came from Chris Anka, of course. Chris Anka is a celebrated comic book artist. He worked on into the Spider, across the Spider Verse for character design. Some of his suits are in your Spider man game. But he responded on Blue sky and said, can you tell Ted that playing his games inspired me into learning character design and dictated the trajectory of my life. So as someone who likes his art. Great job, Ted.
- [13:39]
Ted Price
It's fine. They're not my games. I just want to make that clear.
- [13:44]
Greg Miller
It's been 30 years, Ted. Take the victory lap. Just take the. We're going to talk about your dice going to the hall of Fame in a second. Take the victory three laps, sir.
- [13:53]
Ted Price
It's been fun and it's, it's something I will cherish forever. This experience of really being able to be at the ground floor with the team, building something from nothing. That's, that's a blast.
- [14:05]
Greg Miller
And then Andre Lima Aru, another celebrated comic book artist and kind of funny best friend who's drawn Spider man as well, pops in and says, just tell him that I played Ted's games when I was a kid and now I play them with my daughter. That's a testament of how consistently awesome his work has been.
- [14:22]
Ted Price
Give me Way too much credit. But I will say that for all of us at Insomniac, when we hear stories about that, when we hear folks who have grown up with our games and now we're playing them with their kids, that's why we do this, right?
- [14:35]
Greg Miller
Yeah.
- [14:37]
Ted Price
Have that kind of impact and hear those stories from people because it reminds us that what we do is important to people, it has a cultural effect and it makes the world a better place. It's easy to forget about that when you're wrestling with deadlines and constraints and all of the things that go along with large budget games. It's really great to hear those kinds of, that kind of feedback from players.
- [15:01]
Greg Miller
When you set off on this journey 30 years ago and you start working on Disruptor, did you expect that? Were you thinking about the end product reaching people and then them giving feedback back to you?
- [15:13]
Ted Price
Not at first. I think that when Al, Brian and I were, and a few other team members were focused on Disruptor, what we were trying to do really was just get it out the door. We were on that game, learning how to make games. And we're fortunate to work with Mark Cerny, who gave us a pretty great tremor on what to do in terms of production and level layout, level design. So as has been the case with pretty much every one of our games, we had a limited budget and we had to finish it up and make sure that what we were releasing was polished enough that players wouldn't be frustrated. So it wasn't until after we shifted that we, I think, took a step back and thought to ourselves, okay, well this actually was. This did strike a chord with players, or at least those who got a chance to play it because it wasn't marketed particularly broadly. But we learned from that was, this is a good thing, we've figured some stuff out, let's take it further. Let's actually expand the market or the players to whom we're talking. And that led to Spyro. And of course you've probably heard this story before, but when we shipped Disruptor and realized that Dispenser probably wasn't going to sell that well, it was really great that Mark Cerny suggested that we think about a different audience. In particular the family friendly audience on the PlayStation. And that's where the idea for Spyro came about. And one of our artists, Craig Stitt, had talked about always having wanted to make a big game about a dragon. And then when he said that, that was the spark that really lit us up and resulted in a very quick prototyping of this game. And again, when we were developing this sort of, to answer your question a second time, we were thinking about who would play it, but we didn't really have much of a sense for how many players would experience it. And in fact, the first six months after we released the game, we weren't really sure how it was going to do. It wasn't selling particularly quickly, but it just kept going. And eventually when we started getting physical letters, because back then we were mostly getting physical letters from players, we started realizing that people do like this. They enjoy the quirkiness of the character, the humor, the accessibility of the game design. And that powered us up to keep going with Spyro.
- [17:38]
Greg Miller
So now that we're doing this trip down memory lane, going through all the different insomniac ip, you've told me how you come to Disruptor, you told me how you come to Spyro. How do you come to Ratchet and Clank?
- [17:48]
Ted Price
Ratchet and Clank was the result of acknowledging Spyro's constraints. Spyro as a four legged character with no real hands meant that we couldn't take the gameplay mechanics much farther than we had in Spyro 3. And you probably remember in Spyro 3 we introduced additional characters because of Spyro's limitations. Those characters had hands, those characters could hold things and do things with them. But we wanted to branch out further and do something that wasn't. That was more than a collectathon and start integrating more adventure game, RPG ish mechanics to our games. And so that's where Ratchet was born. That said, we had to stumble a few times before we even began working on Ratchet. We spent a lot of time working on a more mature game which we called Girl with a Stick. Didn't ever have a real name and didn't quite succeed with that one. And we were up against the wall when we weren't going to be able to get that one published. And then Brian Hastings suggested that we do a game about a little furry alien that rockets from planet to planet. And again, it was like what Craig had done on Spyro. It was that spark that got everybody excited and we said, yes, let's do that. And now let's start thinking about how we can take the action platformer genre further and do something different with it versus going back to collecting gems on Spyro.
- [19:24]
Greg Miller
You know, you talk about. Well, I talk about right now. You're getting inducted into the AIAS hall of Fame at the DICE Awards hosted by me and Stella next week on Thursday. And I'm Very excited about that. And you know, oh, there's teams and it's all this. You get more credit than it's worth. I think what's interesting as I'm going through here and I'm talking to you about these games, you bring up Girl with Stick, right? This thing that didn't work out and never saw the light of day. And you've done such a great job over the years. When you come in and you host AIAs game makers notebook, which is the podcast for the Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences, AIAS Game Makers Notebook, and you interview other devs and you talk to them. This sounds like a leading question or a fishing question. It's not. But do you think we as an industry share enough the projects that didn't make it? Because right now as I go through and I'm talking about let's talk about Spyro, let's talk about Ratchet, let's talk about resistance. People are at home or don't maybe didn't know some of this. They're missing. They forgot about like, oh my God, the run of games insomniacs had the Ted's been a part of yada, yada yada. There's been Mrs. Along the way. Right. Prototypes that never saw the light of day. Like, do you think we talk enough about that?
- [20:30]
Ted Price
I think on the Game maker's Notebook developers really do open up and it's a wonderful place for folks to just let loose and share. And I think the way we've positioned it, and this is a great kudos to the academy for setting this all up, is that this is the podcast about helping others learn from our mistakes. And I'd say this is my interpretation of it. It may not be everybody's interpretation, but what I've seen is that each person I've had the good fortune to interview spends more time on what they didn't do well and how they, what they learned from those experiences. And it's wonderful. And I, I talk to game people who want to get into games, who listen to the podcast and they often bring up those moments and say it was so good to hear this person talking about when they didn't quite hit the mark. Because it makes me feel better, it gives me confidence for sure to step into the ring and know that anybody can succeed, anybody can fail. But at the same time, we're all on this journey together in games and there's a real willingness to share this information because it's that rising tide floats all boats, which is again, one of those very Unique things about our industry that stands apart to me from other industries across the world.
- [21:46]
Greg Miller
Let me bring in one of the questions the super chats, if you will. Shane Bailey writes in and says, as an independent studio up until 2018, I'm sure your team pitched a lot of cool ideas to different publishers and IP holders. Is there a favorite of yours that you can talk about that you wish was greenlit? Do you ever think about that? The one that got away?
- [22:04]
Ted Price
That's a great question. Yeah, I'll share one.
- [22:11]
Greg Miller
Okay.
- [22:11]
Ted Price
Resistance four.
- [22:13]
Greg Miller
Hey. Oh my God. You just killed. So many questions. Everyone wants to talk about Resistance 4.
- [22:20]
Ted Price
We did pitch that one and it was a wonderful concept and it just, in terms of timing and market opportunity, didn't work out and. But it, but it was. It was the result of a lot of Insomniac team members being passionate about extending the story further. Because I do believe that Resistance has set up a really cool alternate history base where anything can happen. Where with the Chimera and where they go and what their origins are. We spent a lot of time working on backstory and brainstorming on what. Where we could take this in the future. And personally, I love this franchise. I was fortunate enough to be creative director on the first few Resistances and I will remember many, many moments, good and bad. I guess visually, when it comes to development, taught us all a lot about how we could elevate ourselves under some pretty heavy in some pretty difficult situations for sure. But unfortunately, we love the fan response and we know that fans ask pretty regularly if we're going to do another Resistance? There's no answer to that. But I will say we pitched Resistance 4 and it was cool.
- [23:35]
Greg Miller
Well, here's the thing. Now you're one of us. You're a gamer. You're almost on the outside, like, you know, just daydream with me. Do you think we'll ever see Insomniac turn to Resistance as gamer? Not as. Not as. Anyhow, you're out, you're done. You don't know, I assume, what happens next. Like everybody.
- [23:52]
Ted Price
I mean, honestly, I hope so. Yeah, I would love to see this story taken further. To me, it's near and dear to my heart. There are so many cool things about it said. I do strongly believe that there's a reason everything happens. And when I look back at the games that we've made, the ones that were received well, the ones that weren't received well, the ones we didn't get to make, all of those have led us to where we are Today, Sure. Which is having an amazing relationship with Marvel and working on games that we are truly excited about because Marvel has entrusted us with many of their beloved characters, and we have the opportunity to tell our own stories about them. And that partnership with Marvel, it really is unique and it gives us an opportunity to reach even more players and tell bigger and we think deeper stories.
- [24:44]
Greg Miller
I have so many different directions I want to go right now, because I have one more. There's one Resistance 3 question here from Samuel. Let's just do that. And then I want to get back to Marvel, but I also want to talk about dice and I also want to just tell you I love you. But Samuel says Resistance three criminally undersold for how good of a game it was. Was it purely a sales thing that determined the IP retiring, or was it a sentiment within Insomniac? You kind of just touched on it. You said you had a pitch for Resistance 4, but it was a multitude of factors. That's why it didn't happen.
- [25:13]
Ted Price
Yeah. Resistance Act 3 was intended to end that chapter of the Resistance franchise. I mean, with the way that we ended with Capelli and sort of closed a lot of loops on various smaller story items. And we wanted to do that so we would have more options in the future whether we were to go ahead with more Resistance games or take another turn. When you work on a franchise for a long time, it's nice to have a chance to move on to something else. And at the same time, it's also nice to be able to come back to it. So fortunately, because we're part of Sony and Tony owns the intellectual property to Resistance, we will always have that opportunity to revisit Resistance. And if that. If it works out again, as a fan, I'm going to be pretty excited.
- [26:01]
Greg Miller
Good answer. Again, we're going. I like this idea of going blow by blow through your games right now, Insomniac's games, because of course, we're talking about you entering the AIAS hall of Fame Fame on Thursday, February 13, at the DICE Awards, hosted by me and Stella. Let's jump to Resistance Fall of Man. You're talking about all these lessons you learned. And we just did an interview a couple weeks ago with Shuhei Yoshida. You might have known him, he just retired, you know what I mean? He's doing the same thing. Everybody's just leaving, you know what I mean? But one of the things he talked about was that PlayStation 3 launch, that generation and how difficult it was. Right? Of course. Cell processor. But y'all were right there with resistance. And I assume when you're talking Fall of Man and you're talking about the things you had to learn on the fly, is that some of it? Was it working with the PlayStation 3?
- [26:47]
Ted Price
Yes, we had. We were transitioning to the PlayStation 3 from the PlayStation 2. We've been working on Ratchet and Clank on the PlayStation 2. We were also for the first time entering into multi game development because we were also working on Ratchet Deadlocked and we knew and wanted to branch out into multiple games to actually create a little bit more of a safety net for ourselves because often the more games you have going on, the more opportunities you have, but more importantly, the more opportunities creatively for a team.
- [27:21]
Greg Miller
Sure.
- [27:22]
Ted Price
As I said before, when you work on one franchise for a long time, it can be challenging. So we wanted to give Insomniacs different opportunities. Hey, are you interested in a more realistic sci fi shooter? Do you love platformers? We got both and as we grew we continued to expand what we were doing. But during the year before the PlayStation 3's launch, things were moving really quickly on the hardware front and we were doing double duty trying to finish the game and also responding to last minute changes in the os, working through brand new mission procedures and it all came down to the wire. We were inspired to get it done and make sure that we would launch on time with the PlayStation 3. One of the reasons is that if you are a launch title with any console or any new platform, it really does help cement a particular IP and people. If you make a good game, sure, ideally people will see that game as synonymous with the platform and that helps as you're thinking about sequels for the rest of that particular platform's life. And so that was one of our goals. And through a lot of incredibly hard work by insomniacs and a lot of nail biting and last minute decisions in support by Sony, we got it done. And that was really, really gratifying and satisfying at the same time.
- [28:47]
Greg Miller
Oh, I bet. Let alone the fact that the reaction, you know, you said it, of course you'd be, you're going to be attached to the system if you do it. But it was the idea that fans resonated like people love resistance. To this day, as a PlayStation guy, when I talk about PlayStation IP resistance inevitably comes up of how much people loved this, you know, Nathan Hale story. And then obviously as it goes on to become multiple games, like you guys did the damn thing. So it's like you should be proud of it. I'm Glad it worked for you. And I'm glad it did that for Insomniac. And I think again, you know, you talk about the lineage of Insomniac, and that's where it gets so interesting here, where it's like as you start looking through the list of games, right, Because I love over on your. Again, the press release where they're talking about you joining the hall of Fame for dice, right? The AIAS hall of Fame. It goes. Under his leadership, Insomniac has shipped 35 games across major platforms, earning a reputation as one of the industry's most prolific developers. And it's to that point, right, where you're. We're talking about Spyro, right? But then you're talking about Ratchet and Clank. But then you're talking about Ratchet, Clank going commando up your arsenal. Ratchet Deadlocked Resistance Fall Man. Ratchet and Clank Future Tool Instructions. We got a quest for Booty Resistance 2, Ratchet and Clank. It's. It was an ongoing joke when we did podcast, beyond the amount of listeners and guests who would come on thinking that Insomniac already was first party PlayStation because you were so synonymous with PS1, PS2, and then PS3. There's no question in that. Just, it was like you're talking about the output and the incredible stuff you guys were doing. Like, you had such a tear here of being the PlayStation guys and gals before you were the PlayStation guys and gals.
- [30:21]
Ted Price
Thanks. I mean, I give a lot of credit to just the people we got a chance to work with from the very beginning at PlayStation. People like Connie Booth, Grady Booth, Grady Hunt, Yoshida, who you already mentioned. Mark Thurney, who wasn't part of Sony, but worked very closely with them. Art Demirjian, Joe Castano, Greg Phillips. I mean, these are all folks that we love. I mean, we consider them insomniacs because we work so closely with them and they always had faith in us and always supported us. Now, we weren't part of Sony, but when we decided that we were looking to become part of a larger organization, Sony was an obvious choice because we, we had such a strong relationship with them.
- [31:04]
Greg Miller
I want to talk about that. I want to talk about the Switch. I want to talk about the games that come after those games. But first, I want to remind you we wouldn't be here without you supporting us. Pick up a kind of funny membership so you don't have to hear ads like these.
- [31:14]
C
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- [32:18]
Greg Miller
Okay, so like I said, we're. I want to get to getting acquired by PlayStation. Why you make that decision. But when we're here on the timeline, this is where it gets interesting. Where again you were the PlayStation folks for so long even though you weren't the PlayStation folks, but you were the PlayStation folks. And then we get Fuse, then we get Sunset Overdrive. And not like back to back, but you know what I mean, like this happening Song of the Deep, a game you know, I adore. We have, we have a, we've had a big breakthrough at home. You know, I have a 3 year old Ted on the bookshelf. I brought home this last trip, a book of Sonic the Hedgehog stories. This is interesting because these sonic 5 minute stories have far fewer drawings in them than like the Spider Man 5 minute ones which get me so excited because on the bookshelf and when he was in the womb I would read to him the Song of the Deep novel that came with the collector's edition. Because you know how much I love Song of the Deep. So I'm very, we're very close to be able to read Marin's story all the way through to him. And I digress. Talk to me about this period where you've been PlayStation for so long even though you aren't first party and here you're like, you know what, we want to branch out. We want to do something like Fuse. We want to do something at Sunset Overdrive.
- [33:28]
Ted Price
Well, you said it. We wanted to branch out. We wanted to ensure that we were trying different things, working with different publishers, reaching different audiences. And we were fortunate that our engine team, we call them, our core team, had developed an amazing cross platform engine and we could much more easily make the decision to move on to Xbox or on to produce a PC game or work with Oculus on VR games. So these were things that we embraced and gave it a shot and gave a shot and we learned a lot. I mean, good example is long of the deep. We had a relationship with GameStop which was really different. I mean we. I never imagined that we would have a game outlet as a publisher that was. That was very different. But I loved working with the folks that we got to work with there. Working with Microsoft was also a really positive experience for us with Sunset Overdrive. That was a chance for us to do something very different with RIP and take some real creative risks with the game. And we always take creative risk. But this game was almost polarizing just because it was so out there at times. And it, I think, garnered us another corner of the market that we might not have reached otherwise. It also set us up really well for Spider man because you know that when you play the game, a lot of the mechanics in terms of the bouncing and the grinding and just the freedom of movement kind of as a primer for us when it came to making Spider man feel good in terms of his traversal to the city.
- [35:09]
Greg Miller
Let's talk about location.
- [35:10]
Ted Price
Every single one of these games was meaningful to us. Even if they didn't hit as big as some of the other games that we had done. They were all a lot of fun and new challenges.
- [35:19]
Greg Miller
And I assume they're all learning experiences, right? You take something different from them. And I'm not trying to set you up here, but my interpretation of Sunset Overdrive always was like this was kind of the answer to Fuse, where Fuse, I felt like went through its big stylized change right where it went from having the style to being something else. With ea, there's a whole bunch of stuff happening there. And I thought Sunset Overdrive was you guys, like, let's be weird again. Let's make something super weird. Let's make. And we'll make it what we are. And their Xbox publishing, but they'll be fine with. And am I off base, did that? Is that kind of how it was? Because it's always been my interpretation.
- [35:52]
Ted Price
Well, absolutely. I think every game that we do Those learnings that we took from the previous game. No question about it. I love Fuse. I thought Fuse had a fantastic co op mechanic that was really underrated by fans even today. The character switching in, it was something that we were really proud of. And the weapons, as usual, were really out there and something that we spent a lot of time brainstorming on. But that helped us develop even better muscles for the next Ratchet game, right. In terms of what we were thinking about with weapons in the Ratchet world. So every one of these games, regardless of success, is something special for the team. And I think we all look back fondly on various aspects of each development, and at times we remember some of the harder lessons learned from every one of those developments, and it makes us stronger.
- [36:41]
Greg Miller
So then let's catch up. 2018 in Spider man, you start in on this. Obviously, working with Marvel games, working with PlayStation, not part of the PlayStation family yet. Talk to me about the chicken and the eggs on all three of those decisions. Is it PlayStation and John Drake coming to you saying make a Spider man game? Is it you coming and saying we should make a Spider man game to Marvel Games? Is it? Then why are. At what point do you say, maybe it's time to actually make this official and get a ring from PlayStation? How does all that work?
- [37:12]
Ted Price
It was actually Connie Booth who came to us initially and said, hey, the Marvel team would be interested in talking to you. And that was awesome because we got to meet the Marvel team, Jay Ong and his folks, really quickly after that, and realized that there was a lot of chemistry already between us. We all had similar interests. We wanted the same thing from our games and things. We just took off. And what was nice was early on, we had the opportunity to discuss which characters might make sense for us to embrace. And Spider man stood out immediately because Peter Parker as a person and Spider man as a character sort of reflect who we think we are. Always trying to do the right thing. Sometimes we don't get there in terms of delivering on what we want, but we're never going to stop trying. And that's Spider man and Peter Parker. So he really spoke to us emotionally and then in terms of mechanics that were there for us to take advantage of. Wow, that was a playground for us. And we really, as I said before, took what we learned from our previous games and just amped it up with Spider Man. That said, it also gave our core team, our technology team, the opportunity to really go big with what we could display on the PlayStation, how far we could push it so all of those things came together for us as a developer to produce something that we were and have always been really proud of. Now, that started around the 2014, 2015 timeframe and we shipped Spider man in 2018 and immediately went on to actually, we're working on Miles Morales and beyond. We began talking to Sony right after we had launched the game because we realized that as our games grew, it would be great to be even more closely tied to a large partner who could fund our ambitions. Right. And not have to worry about. Most independent developers worry about, which is finding the next partner. And it was getting harder and harder because the risks in this industry have been going through the roof as budgets increase. So we knew from the beginning that our cultural philosophy was very closely aligned with Sony's just because we've been working so closely with Sony partners for decades. So it was a no brainer for us to join the Sony team.
- [39:43]
Greg Miller
Okay, I'll accept it. I'll accept that as an answer from you. We're talking, I don't know, I'm just giving you our time. I want to get this one in because it's a. I think as we talk about locomotion, we talk about web sling, we talk about, you know, going from Spyro on four legs to Ratchet on two. I like this one from Agent Otzel who wrote in and said, throughout its history, Insomniac has always been at the cutting edge of gaming technology. Eg, with the level of detail rendering of PS1, Spyro Trilogy. Which of Insomniac's technical achievements are you most proud of? Ted?
- [40:19]
Ted Price
There are a lot that's like asking which game is your favorite game or what's the game are you most proud of that Insomniac has produced? It's easier to point to some games and what the games have been able to do. Ratchet and Clank ripped Apart for us was a really wonderful opportunity to showcase what our render team and our art teams, animation teams had been able to produce. Working together. As we moved on to the PlayStation 5, it was for us taking the Ratchet, this, this idea of Ratchet as a stylized, incredibly colorful universe and taking it further. Right. That and fans, we think, responded really positively to that and call and give it a lot of kudos for being one of the more visually, I don't know, stunning, yeah, games on the PlayStation 5. And it came out early in the life cycle too for the PlayStation. So we, we were all of us really proud of how all the teams contributed to this visual spectacle and then on the Spider man front, I mentioned this before, but building New York as closely to the real New York as we could and allowing players to swing through it at ridiculous speeds was a very impressive technical achievement by our core team. And of course, it's not just our core team. It's our art team, animation team, design team, audio team. Everybody is involved with ensuring that when you're swinging through or moving through New York quickly, it's a smooth, seamless experience. It's not just about technology. It's about all the teams working together to optimize what we have on screen and using a lot of tricks to ensure that it always looks good no matter where you are or what you're doing. It's a big, big. I mean, the obvious here, but it really is a big environment. And our goal from the beginning was to make it really feel like New York and like you are truly swinging to New York. And getting there took a lot of incredibly hard work, but we love the response that people had. And last thing I'll say about this, because I could talk forever about Spider man, is that I think one of the most. Some of the most fun moments for us when people take screenshots of their building or their apartment and send it to us and say, I live here, I work here. And that's kudos to the Insomniac Environment team for really going all out to make these places reflect a real thing.
- [42:57]
Greg Miller
Yeah, no, I mean, it's in no exaggeration to say how incredible that is, because that, you know, when we got review code and I was finally able to roam, like, you know, it took. It dawned on me at some point on night two, I think of, like, wait a second. And I opened up Google Maps and I was like, where's the Ghostbusters firehouse? And then I looked at your map and I was like, it probably swung over and there it was. And I was like, dang. Like that. That's what you're looking for in those kind of games, that kind of level of immersion. Ted, I am running out of time with you, as you know, but we've caught up. Insomniacs been acquired. We talked about Spider Man. We've done that. I want to get you some just quick fire questions from the chat before I get you out of here. Of course, I will remind everybody, like I said, you are being inducted into the hall of fame at the 28th annual DICE Awards taking place February 13th at 8pm Pacific. So come check that out when me and Stella host that. That's the oh, look at that. You got it tossed up right there. February 13th, I'll be. I'll be all over on Twitter and everything else about it, so you'll see me jabbering about it. But to get out of here, I like these four or five questions. Here it goes. So I like this. You know, again, you host this or you did many times host the AIs podcast, right? And it was just a wealth of knowledge. Everyone should go subscribe to that podcast, but then listen to ted's episodes especially. I like this glc.
- [44:14]
Ted Price
I love everybody's episodes. There are a lot of fantastic hosts who talk to people across the industry and have many different professions in the industry. So it's a very. It has something for everybody.
- [44:24]
Greg Miller
Greg Rice just did one with the thank Goodness yous're Here Folks, and I really like that one about how they make the game so funny. But I digress. This is about you. GL says, as someone who wants to get into the games industry, what advice can you give?
- [44:37]
Ted Price
Find a company who makes the kinds of games that you love and whose culture you admire. And if you can meet people there, look for job openings there. I suggest the targeted approach because every company in this industry is a little different. And we find at Insomniac that those people who joined us because they love the games that we make and love the kind of culture that we have tend to stay with us, and that's what we are looking for. We want fans to be people who are fans of what we make, to be on our team. So know a lot about who you're applying to and go after them versus spreading a wide net.
- [45:20]
Greg Miller
That's.
- [45:20]
Ted Price
That's my suggestion. It's a harder road, but I think it ultimately results in even better choices down the road.
- [45:29]
Greg Miller
Great answer. Nestle hand writes in and says, as much as I know how much you love game Dev, Ted, I wonder what is the one thing you will not miss about the games industry?
- [45:44]
Ted Price
That's a hard question to answer.
- [45:46]
Greg Miller
I know, right?
- [45:47]
Ted Price
I think I'm not gonna miss looking for bugs when I play games.
- [45:52]
Greg Miller
Are you? But are you gonna be able to turn that off? Are you not gonna be able to play the game? Oh, there was a frame drop there.
- [45:58]
Ted Price
That's my plan. It really is. I. I have been telling my teammates that I am so excited to pick up a game for the first time after March and not by default fault. You're looking for collision errors or flip sliding or, you know, all the things that just kind of been burned into my brain over the last 30 years. So I'm hard switch to flip, but I'm intending to flip it.
- [46:18]
Greg Miller
Okay, I'll check in with you in, you know, a year and see how that's working for you, see if you're actually able to turn it off. Taylor says. What was the most stressful period during your tenure that also ended up paying off?
- [46:33]
Ted Price
I think the most stressful period was when we had moved away from working with Sony and we were getting comfortable with working with other partners who had completely different approaches than we did. I think we had become so compatible with Sony in terms of our approach and philosophies that it was a little bit of a shock and took some adjusting to work with other publishers. And that can be distracting when you're trying to get games out the door. And I think for every developer publisher relationship, it takes time to mature and get to a place where both parties are comfortable. And during that period when we weren't working as closely with Sony, we didn't give it enough time. We didn't give ourselves a lot of time with these other publishers before we ultimately went back to Sony. But at the same time, I think we knew what we were looking for. And we knew that from the beginning we had best and most compatible partner we had. Had always been Sony.
- [47:30]
Greg Miller
Cool. Fair enough. Okay, this next one comes from Tweak X. I'll warn you, it's gonna sound uncomfortable, but I think it's an important one. And then we'll get back to good stuff. Tweak X says. Hey, Greg, can you ask Ted how does it feel as the head of. I'm sorry, how does the head of a studio respond when something like a leak happens at the studio? What's the. Usually the first thing that happens then? How do you address the studio about it?
- [47:52]
Ted Price
I think transparency is key and meaning explaining what happened, what its impact is on the company, on our games, on our partners, so that everybody understands the negatives associated with it. Could be elite, could be anything that has been important for us, no matter what, from the very beginning. Is that being transparent, telling people both the good and the bad news so that everybody understands how we can make better decisions in the future.
- [48:23]
Greg Miller
Excellent. And then back to wrap it all up, I kick it to our friend of the show here, of course, a kind of funny best friend through and through, Cameron Kennedy, who says, not even a question. And it's something we already talked about, but it's where I want to end. The actual thing I'd like to be touched on is Insomniac Avoiding things like crunch, giving proper time off over the holidays, and encouraging remote work from home while still having a higher output than other studios that seem to be doing the opposite. TED again, what Insomniac does is what makes them an S tier studio. You take care of your people in such an impressive way and I know you're a team and this, all this stuff, but it's been you at the head for 30 years, so you need to be lauded for that. And I think that's a big reason about this Dice hall of Fame induction.
- [49:05]
Ted Price
I appreciate it. We're never going to stop trying to do the right thing. And Insomniac, we may not always get it right, but we definitely have the will to constantly improve and that's going to continue way beyond me. And it has been a part of our DNA from the beginning and everybody who comes in embraces that. So I think that's what makes Insomniac special.
- [49:23]
Greg Miller
Well, like I said, Ted Price is of course leaving the games industry, but not before he is inducted into the Academy of Interactive Arts and Science hall of Fame. I'm so used to saying aias, it's weird to say it out. Yeah, right. At the 28th Annual DICE Awards taking place Thursday, February 13, 2025 at 8pm Pacific with me and Stella hosting. Ted, I can't wait to see you in party in Vegas.
- [49:48]
Ted Price
Same here.
- [49:48]
Greg Miller
Thanks.
- [49:49]
Ted Price
Thanks a lot, Greg.
- [49:50]
Greg Miller
Thank you. Congratulations on 30amazing years, the hall of Fame and everything else. To everyone else watching, of course, this has been the Kinda Funny Gamescast. Each and every weekday we run you through the biggest topics in video games. If you like that, of course, pick up a Kinda Funny membership on patreon.com kindafunny YouTube.com kindafunnygames Apple or Spotify to support us and all the independent work we do. Until next time, it's been our pleasure to serv.