C (2:16)

No, no, no. I'm honored. Number one pick. Come on.

A (2:21)

No, I'm sure I'm gonna get that.

B (2:22)

On a T shirt for you hill number one pick.

C (2:24)

I love it. I love it. Me, my face and LeBron James next to each other. He's doing me such a big favor.

A (2:32)

What about you two making out?

C (2:36)

I'm cool with that. I'm cool with that.

B (2:40)

Let's start off with the high five short line comp, which actually starts in a few hours. They have made some big changes this year. Hugh, you were in the fleet. I assume that you're not riding today. What's going on? But are you. You out injured or just decided. Decided to pull out?

C (2:54)

I mean, apart from the fact that I've been actually quite sick yesterday I was useless. The day before yesterday I wasn't great. But the winds picked up to 40 knots in the gust, so I decided to put being sick on the side and go anyway. So that's probably why yesterday was worse. But also I wanted to give my spot to all of the young kids around that really want to compete in an event. And I think this is, this is a good, like a cool chance for people to show what they can do. So it was. Yeah, those two, those two reasons.

A (3:28)

My question is, what's Jason Van Der Spee's take on it this year? Is he turning up?

C (3:35)

I believe he's joining. Yeah, I believe Jason Van Der Spey is joining the competition today. So that's going to be exciting.

B (3:43)

They have made some quite interesting rule changes. Last year they were sort of following the same king of the air, you know, extremity and height and, you know, guys bring technical riders. I was speaking to Jet Bradshaw on the last podcast and he said they're actually going to scrap that now and it's going to be all about who can get that kite the lowest. So I think that's a really cool move. Almost like they're just going to let the crowd, if the crowd pops and the crowd explodes, that's where the points are going to go. And I think that's going to probably favor the short line guys over, you know, the, the, the Stenos and the, and the Cohen's who won it last year, they, they brought quite a technical sort of game to it. What do you think of that heel? Do you think that's the right way to go to take the technical stuff out and let the guys just put that kite as possible and that's going to be the big scoring point.

C (4:26)

I mean, it's a, it's a show event, right? So you want to see the kite going extremely low. But I think last year we saw Cohen do a doobie, which is quite technical for 12 meter lines, but putting the kite as low as someone would on 9 meter lines who's just trying a super loop. So I think if you can combine it, I still think that will win the competition instead of just a straight super loop. But by the way, if you guys want, I do have some information on who's all joining, what the heats are like, who's in which heat, which riders are up against each other in the first rounds, etc. Etc. The first heat is Cohen Van Dijk, Jerome McGuire and Nathan Pizzuto. Second heat is Damian Rulofser Svenmek and Adrian Bartizzo. And then the third heat it is going down with Josh Gillett, Yusel Perlich and Dylan Brown. So that's, I think that's quite a big one. Then heat four is Stino Mill, Gianluca d' Ambrosio and Matthijs Hastebake. Heat five is Jed Bradshaw and Ross Dylan Player. And heat six is Adrian Lau, Nicholas Furry and Jason Van der Spy.

A (5:42)

Epic. Hey. Oh, I was there the beach last year and I just remember being like, how are they going so high on those length of lines? 12 some. And I think Jet's favorite size is 10 actually. I think Jason is like 9.7 or something like that. And I was just astounded with the fact that they were still getting the height. What has changed there? Is it something in the kite? Is it something in technique that's evolved very quickly in the past few years? And if it is the kite, what sort of kite do you actually want for these, for this, these conditions and this criteria?

C (6:20)

Well, I think it's safe to say that the kites got a lot better over the last couple of years. You can see like leaderboards, you know, the records are getting broken almost every other week it feels like. So the kites are definitely getting better. But there is a. I remember Jason once telling me there is like a sweet spot where it gets to 40, 45, 50 knots around that area that he feels he can jump as high on 12 meter lines as he can on 22. But it does need to absolutely howl. And today actually looks really promising. Let's hope it comes through. But if it comes through like that, Jason says he can go as high on even like his 9 meter line setup as 22. So if we, we're going to see like 20 meter super loops. That's quite exciting.

A (7:12)

Do you believe that though? Do you believe that if he was on 22 meter lines he would not go higher?

C (7:18)

Well, I mean, I don't I don't see why he would lie about it. So I do believe it. Yeah.

A (7:24)

Seems like a trustworthy individual.

C (7:26)

I've seen him go absolutely massive on 10 meter lines or something like that when we were on 22s and I was wondering if we were actually going any bigger. So. No, I, I believe that for sure.

A (7:38)

Yeah. Okay. Okay. And if you're going out and doing short line stuff, which kite in the core range are you taking and why Is it XR or would you rather go pace?

C (7:49)

I would, I would rather go XR because I just want to go really high. But I think if Jason would choose from our range, I think he would go for a pace because he does. You know, I, I have heard that using a quicker kite definitely helps putting the kite lower.

B (8:06)

By the way, a lot of people are going to be listening to this post. Post the event Adrian Low. Last year a lot of people were saying that he probably could have won, that he was getting the kite lower. Young South African kid riding on RD up against Jason. I think this is going to be a pretty interesting heat because Adrian has sort of gone to become a short line specialist, but only really commit to it. But man, I've seen him riding, man, he's that, that kite, he's getting that kite really, really low and he's throwing down almost recklessly a bit, you know, maybe that sort of five or six years younger than Jason and, and, and just maybe that, that age thing is letting him to, or sort of allowing him to, to push that little bit harder. Do you think he can knock Jason off there in that first heat?

C (8:47)

Did you say Adrian is almost riding recklessly? Because that's.

B (8:51)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he, he is riding recklessly.

C (8:54)

Yeah, yeah, well, of course, yeah, yeah. Like I think the high five short line competition is an absolute success if there is no ambulance for Adrian or Josh Gillett. Because those guys, when, when the competition starts on short lines, they just say whatever the consequences are, I'll, I'm fine with it, you know. So I think Adrian and Josh Gillett definitely are able to, to switch their brains off completely to go full, full out. And yeah, in that, in that case, Adrian can definitely give Jason a hard time. But Jason found the spot. What can we say? Short line goat, self proclaimed but at the same time, you know, kind of, kind of obvious one for me. So I would say Jason takes it, but Adrian can definitely put up a fight. Definitely.

B (9:48)

You think Cohen can go back to back here and win it again?

C (9:52)

Of course you don't. You don't bet against Cohen van Dijk. Right. I don't.

A (9:57)

Indeed. Indeed.

C (9:58)

Because that's, that's the thing. I think he will be able to combine some technicality with an extremely low kite angle. And if you're looking at Jason and Ucel, I mean, Ucel can do that boogie board of contra, he can do board of laid backs coming in with the kite really low. So Jussel also has that technical aspect and the kite angle, whereas Jason, I mean, he's just throwing down the craziest super loop. So in the end, I think it comes down to what they'll score instead of who's better at short lines. Because it's a different take if you're saying who's better at technical short line riding or who's better at throwing the kite down the very lowest. Because there's different answers to that.

A (10:45)

As you will have heard in previous podcasts, Jason van der Spee will be on a new kite for this competition. Jet Bradshaw will be on a new kite for this competition. You sell Parallax will be competing for the first time on his new kite. And that's something we're going to talk a little bit now in this podcast. But I wonder how much of a difference it's going to make. Like watching Jason Van der Spee on his Nash and watching Jet Bradshaw on his, on his Jacobson. Do they look the same? Has there been any adjustment there to your eye heel?

C (11:22)

I haven't seen as much of Jed as I have from Jason. I think Jason has looked like he's taken a, like a small step forward, if anything. And Jet, yeah, like I said, I haven't really seen enough. But these guys are all really good riders, you know, and I think especially Jason, I think he would be able to adjust to a new kite within an hour because he's just been kiting for so long. He's got such good feeling for the kite that honestly I don't think it matters what he competes on. And with Jet, like with the short lines, he's got such a feel to it. I think it's such a different way of kiting to ride 12 meter lines or 22 meter lines. Like a kite will react completely different. And I mean, I've seen him a little bit and he looks comfortable. So I think he'll, you know, Jet's gonna Jet.

A (12:16)

The other one we mentioned there is Yuso Paralluk who will be on his gong for the first time in a competition. And that's interesting because no one really knows if that kite is any good. I hear different stuff. I hear some people, I hear pros looking at it and being like, nah, that is not. That's not the thing. And then, you know, you watch him ride and he does look pretty good. I think that kites respond so differently on short lines than they do on long lines. Am I right in saying that? Hill?

C (12:47)

Yeah, that's. That's what I just said about riding 12 or 22. It's just a completely different ball game. And to me it looks like that gong kite works really well on. On 12 meter lines because it's so quick. And then it comes back to like the 9 meter lines, 10 meter lines. If the kite's really quick, you know, it will quick in a way that it flies quick, not turns quick, but it flies like it has a lot of flying speed. And I think that allows the kite to really go super low and still recover. Like. Like there's no problem. But then if you use that kite on 22 meter lines, it might be too quick and you lose a bit of a feel because the kite comes back into the wind window or shoots behind you and then sits there for four seconds before you start down looping and is not moving anymore. So then on 12 meter lines or 10 meter lines, the kite can be just the best kite there is for it. And on 22 meter lines it can be, you know, potentially could be the opposite. But I haven't flown the kite, so I really don't know. Everybody always has an opinion before they try it and I rather not do that. But if you ask me on 12 meter lines, it looks good, definitely. Or ucell just makes it look really good. But he's, he was very. He's very happy and optimistic about the feel on. On 12s on 10s.

A (14:09)

Okay, so the day is Wednesday 21st January as we sit down to record this first one and the previous sort of two months really basically in the lead up to King of the air throughout the King of the air period until now is referred to in the industry at a silly season because riders change brands and kind of Cape Town is where the team manager turn up and people get together and have meetings that they shouldn't really have and try and steal each other's riders. This silly season has been like all the other ones. Adrian, I think you've got a list of all the people that have changed. Should we go through them?

B (14:48)

Yeah, I'll go through these names. Now obviously Baby shark has left north and he still remains unsigned. I'm going to say yeah, unsigned is fine, I guess. Timo Boisma, one of our favorites, reached out to him. He still hasn't got any clarity on where he's going. Lewis Krathen has left Duotone. He's going to. Jason's left Air Rush, he's going to Nash. Papa Van Urel's leaving Duotone. She's going to use left core. He's going to Gong or he's gone to Gong. Nathan, Texas, left Duotone. We don't know where he's going at the moment. Jet Bradshaw's left north on his way to Jacobson. And I tell you, a young kid that I'm super interested in, actually, this kid called Martin Koborski, he has left Duotone. He's one of the sort of top young kids coming through from the world class kite Boarding Academy. And he's left Duotone and made a big break and gone over to F1.

A (15:32)

Yeah. Who of that? Can we talk about Adrian?

B (15:36)

Let's talk about Baby Shark Guys, because he's a person that we all know super well has got himself in this position where he's unsigned. Where does this leave Baby Shark Guys? What can he do? Because personally, I think if he's managed well, he brings a lot to a brand, right? He can wing, he can foil, he's great on Instagram, he sure can write his ass off when he's got his head in the right spot. I just think it's a management thing. I really. I. I think when he's managed well and when he's sort of catered for, you get the best out of him. What brands would be interested in someone like this? What, what, what do we reckon?

C (16:06)

I mean, the writing itself is obviously really good. I think he's got a cool personality. I think he'll do good with the next generation. I think there's plenty of kids looking up to him, plenty of kids in Brazil looking up to him. But I think he would need to sign somewhere with people who are with a team manager that's happy to put in a bit of extra effort to make sure that he's on top of everything. You know, he can't be signing with a brand where it's a big brand and there's no one, you know, managing him or keeping an eye out on every single move he makes. Because I think that's important for him right now is to have someone on top of it. Because he performs, he always does. Even, you know, if you don't get a result in competition, he always performs in a certain way. But I Think right now he definitely still needs, you know, a bit of guidance, you know, this kind of stuff.

B (17:05)

I mean, Colin, you've spent a lot of time with Baby shark. Where do you think he could go? What, what sort of brand would be interested in someone like him? Because I, I still believe that he brings a lot to the table.

A (17:14)

I think his potential is mad, honestly. I think if you talk to the trap about Baby Shark, they kind of exhale loudly and then say how dangerous he is and how, how quickly he's able to learn things and how he just lands like a cat. He has also got this kind of rock star appeal. He, when he turns up, he's, he can be like loud and gregarious and he can also be vulnerable with people and tell them how he's, how he's feeling, which is really compelling. If when you meet him in person but also online as well, you talk about his social media stuff, he has that ability to know what's going to work and know what isn't. Massive Brazilian following. The Brazilian culture is very supportive of their athletes. And yeah, he could be at the top of the sport. And if, if you're a team manager and you're listening to this right now and you didn't know he was at a loose end, I think you should pick up the phone and talk to that Brazilian.

C (18:26)

Yeah, he's, he's such a good kid also. Such a good guy.

B (18:30)

That's the thing here. I agree, you know, a lot of people just maybe judge them on what they see. But if you actually, you know, I've been speaking to brands about him. I said, if you sit down and talk to him, he's, he's a great kid, he's a super nice, friendly guy. And I think right now it sounds kind of crap, but I think you could probably, if you're, if you did some sort of strategic play, you could probably get them on a sort of train and trial basis, you know, just say, right, we're going to focus on Lords of Tram, you know, here's the gear, here's the training, Go and do the training. Right, let's talk again after that and, and let him build into a team because I think that's what he needs now. I think he needs small goals put in front of him, you know, right, you got, here's Lords of Tram, here's your gear, let's go train. Right, let's sit down after it break down. Make the next plan. Don't give them too much, just give them a little bit and just work them through it. I think that's the way. And I think there's brands out there who would do that. And I think that. I just think it's crazy just to let a guy like this slip away and fall into the hands of someone who puts a little bit of money on the table and it's the wrong kite. And I can see that happening, too. So I spoke to him this morning and messaged him. I said I'm going to give him a call in a few days. And, yeah, I want to see him with a team that's got a ceiling that he can fill up, because I think he can do that easy.

C (19:37)

Yeah. No, I mean, that's why I say, like, if. If he gets the. The right amount of guidance and the proper guidance, he can be on top. But it's nothing against him. It's not in a bad way at all. But I think he needs a bit of guidance to be right there. You know, I don't think he's gonna manage to do that on his own, which is completely fine. But just anyone who is able to guide him a little bit, I think he could do really good, especially if he ends up on a really good kite. Yeah, he's definitely got the potential. I think he's got drive and motivation. So, yeah, could definitely see him do some really incredible stuff.

B (20:21)

He's clearly talented, but he's a momentum guy. And when he's got the momentum behind him, whether it's the gear and he's at peace and he's happy where he is, that's when he sort of blooms, you know? So we need to find that again and help him. I'm going to put a little bit of time in to try get that dude back, because I would be seriously upset if he just sort of slipped away and.

C (20:39)

Nice. He's not. He's not gonna. He's not gonna slip away. There's no way he's gonna slip away. I don't see that. I don't see that. But it's. It's like people think he's. He's so sure of what he can do and he's very confident and stuff like that, but I think that's exactly what he needs in order to. To take it to the next level because he's. He's. He's right there and he's right there. He just needs some people to. To guide him and to believe in him more than he does. And then. Yeah, I don't see why he wouldn't.

A (21:06)

Be on the top heel last Question on baby shot the Megalodon he did at Lords of the Tram. Not this one, just gone. But the one before that. The riding left double loop, full inverted front flip as the second loop comes around. Has anyone done anything sicker in competition before or since? That or to you, Is that the pinnacle?

C (21:33)

If it would have been on a seven, it would have been the pinnacle. But there's so many. Yeah, but no, but it's, it's fair. I mean, he was, he was powered on a five, don't get me wrong.

A (21:42)

Was it a five? Whoa.

C (21:44)

But to say. Yeah, but to say that it's the sickest thing I've ever seen in competition, probably not. It would have to be either.

A (21:53)

This is, this is good. This is good.

C (21:55)

Josh Gillette's, I think either Josh Gillett's double loop laid back at like 26 or 27 meters, or Andrea riding in the final. Lords of Sven, Lords of Tram, same comp. Or Andrea's final run. I mean, like, any of the tricks that scored a nine were insane. We've had so many, so many incredible moments in competition. Liam's ugly kite loop double loop board off against me in King of the Air. And the last second was terrible. I think that was like that. Probably the lowest. That's, that's, that's the boring. The most boring I've ever seen in my life.

B (22:38)

It was about three or four meters below. That was awesome.

C (22:40)

Yeah. Okay, let's, let's, let's not dwell.

A (22:43)

Let's just move on the past.

B (22:44)

All right, I'll move on here. Colin, where would Timo Boisma go? What. What would Timo bring to a team? I mean, again, a guy who's finished his education, now starting to find a bit of form, starting to get some semi finals under his belt. Sort of like the year before. He was sort of in and out of competition. Didn't really finishing his studies. I kind of feel with Timo, we've got a bit of momentum going here. Kind of surprised he changed team, but he hasn't really been happy with Nash for a few years. What. What does he bring to the table? And we would be a good fit for him.

A (23:13)

Boy, he's good. He's really good, isn't he? He's always at all the main comps. He looks the part too, doesn't he? He's got like that kind of classic Dutch sex appeal to him that our gracious host here also has, obviously. And yeah, Timo, where should he go? Where is there a gap?

C (23:32)

I mean, honestly, Honestly, he could he could go everywhere. He could go anywhere, Right. I think he would just fit in. Tell me, tell me a brand where he wouldn't fit in. Because when you look at Baby Shark. No, you could see him on Core. Why not? He's blonde.

B (23:50)

He's blonde.

C (23:51)

He's blonde, he's quite tall, he's Dutch. I mean, that kind of. He might be the perfect. I might have to talk to the team manager right now. No, I'm just saying, where would you not see Timo? Because he fits in everywhere. If you look at Baby Shark, you could say, like, he's got a bit of a rock star vibe going about him. I don't think that fits with absolutely every brand, which is totally fine. But Timo, I think he fits everywhere, honestly.

B (24:19)

Do you think Timo just being purely bigger is a limitation where, you know, let's say Yosui can, he can wing, he can foil, he can jump on a surfboard, he can, you know, whatever. He can just touch anything and ride it. Do you think that's an asset to brands as well, to be able to do more than just fill your big air space up?

C (24:37)

I mean, if you're a brand and you're looking for a big air rider, you don't need them to wing. So it depends on the brand, Right? If you have a brand that has wings and has everything and it's just very wide, then, yeah, of course it makes sense to have someone who can do everything. But at the same time, if you're just looking for a bigger rider that's gonna do every single competition and has a chance to get a podium on. On any of them. Yeah, then, you know, it just depends on what, what a brand is looking for.

A (25:09)

All right. We obviously have no idea where he's going. That's actually the truth. Whereas a lot of these people we do actually kind of know, but we can't say because it's their job to say and it's their news. So we kind of have to honor that. What are we predicting, boys, for this year? It's looking like a two stop world tour, starting in Barcarez and then concluding in Mykonos, Greece. Whether that does that second stop does come to fruition, it's hard to know. Rebel qualifiers, from what I've heard, are gonna be quiet, but it looks like King of the Air and Mega Loop will happen for sure. Condition depending, obviously. So we're looking at a minimum of four major events. Cold Hawaii actually in there too. Five major events. Are there any gear releases? We foresee being Massive and kind of changing stuff this year. Are there any other external factors in the mix? What we thinking? What's 20, 26 going to bring?

B (26:15)

Colin, let me just jump in and talk about those, those big air stops. At the moment, I'm sort of breaking it down into like tier one, Tier two, tier three, because I think it's a good way for younger riders to look at it. Look, if you look at tier one, you got Lords of Tram, Myk, the Megaloop, Cold Hawaii and Kota, right? You got the two world, the two world championship stops. The Mega Loop, which is a major, Cold Hawaii, I think is a major for me. And then you got King of the Air in tier two, you got full power. And then tier three, you got a lot of parkour, Windsor Sinai. But I think what they. I think having those stops set up like that, it gives young riders an opportunity to think, okay, Paco wins a sign, a full power. That's my way to develop my name, build my brand, get some podiums and then push through into that Tier one. I think it's very difficult to start in tier one. I think young riders coming in now need to start looking at that Puckle Windsor sign a full power because he got multiple fleets, get some results, you know, build your name a little bit like the way Elliot Bhutan did this year. I think he probably, he probably admits he probably jumped the fleet a little bit. But I think if you've got tier one, you've got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 big, big stops, then you got full power, which is a tier 2. I think a lot of guys will still ride that. And then under that you got the Puckle and the Windsor Sinai and sort of domestic events. I think that looks pretty good to me. I think with the qualifiers, I think they, they got a bit of egg on their face this year. You know, there was some, some controversy with selections and I just don't think they need that hassle. The judges and the selections should be looking at all these events. They should be looking at those tier one events, maybe looking at tier two and full power. And they should be looking at those guys throughout the year. They're watching videos. I don't think we need to see them in all these other stops. I mean, I don't see it as a, as an important, important move anymore.

C (27:50)

Wait, did, did you say Elliott Baton jumped the fleet or did you say that he got two consecutive podiums and that's why he was up?

B (27:58)

No, I said he, he kind of like jumped.

C (28:00)

Just, just check.

B (28:01)

No, but I mean dude, he was okay to say that, bro, but he got a. He got a. He won full power pro2 and then he got a podium at the. The Italian event. I mean, to be honest, bro, that's jumping the queue for me. Okay, he put on a performance and.

C (28:16)

Did well, but I mean, he got two podiums. It's not like in Italy there was no one who was supposed to perform better than he was. Right. I think there were a couple writers that we expected to see on the podium instead of.

B (28:28)

I agree, but are those tier. Are those qualifiers, Are they tier one events for you? See, I would put them. If the qualifiers I'd put in the same level as Full Power Tarifa. They're not. They're not.

C (28:37)

They should be. They should be tier one, but nobody decides to. Yeah, but that. I think that's. That's up to the writers and the sponsors to, to start to appreciate more because now we have four events in the year. What if. What if Italy was. Or five. What if Italy turned out to be full Tier one event and everybody showed up? Would it have happened again this year? Probably.

B (29:04)

If you have this qualifying series and you say, okay, the results are directly going to impact your qualification to Red Bull King of the Air, then there's no chance for the elite batons and these people to get in. Because the way those qualifiers were set up, they had some pros, they had some guys in there, they were actually rotating around. I remember Jason missed out the very first time. He was like, why aren't I in fleet? But, you know, they. They're mixing it up, trying to look at new people. And I get it. Also, it's also taking away from, you know, there was some rumor that there was going to be a. A Taiwan, a Taiwan event, another qualifier in Taiwan. But sure, as the whole. The whole pro fleet from Europe's going to come. No Thai guys, no Asian guys? No, no, anyone from Asia is going to get a chance. Unless you start putting very, very strict rules on those qualifiers, it's just going to be like another one of the big five.

C (29:46)

I don't know, because we had an event in Italy and there were some Italian locals in there because writers didn't even make it to Italy, let alone Taiwan. So do you really think everybody's going to show up to Taiwan? I don't think so.

B (29:58)

But also, I love this, but also heal that the fact that people didn't know until they got to Cape Town that, well, what the fuck if I. My commitment to this was going to help my selection People didn't know that. Yeah, writers were unaware. They were unaware.

C (30:11)

The writers were unaware. The writers should have, in my opinion, used their brains just a little because it's a Red Bull qualifier. So obviously, if you compete in those, you get seen, and then you can see how people like how they ride in competition, because you can have entry videos of people that look absolutely fantastic, but once they get to a competition, they crumble. And you look at Elliot and he's got a really nice entry video, but nothing crazy. But then you see him compete, and he doesn't crumble. He absolutely thrives. So it gives the writers a platform to show what they can do in competition. Obviously, that's gonna play a part in how it gets judged. I don't think they need to spell absolutely everything out. Obviously, just showing up is not enough. But if you show up and you perform, then your name gets thrown in the hat. It's simple. Right? It's not rocket science. I think this.

A (31:09)

Let me just intervene here for a second, actually. We're probably. You've probably both said your bits, maybe on this, but the reason this is an important debate is because Jamie Overbeat was denied a spot at King of the Air, which was one of the major stories from last year. A lot of people felt like he should have been there. But he does have a point. Where was Jamie at that Italian qualifier? Was it communicated to everyone that it was important? No, but, like, it's called a qualifier series.

C (31:35)

Yeah, obviously, I think Jamie should have been in King of the Air. He's incredible rider, obviously. But at the same time, if these events get organized, why don't writers go there?

B (31:46)

Jamie's always done it differently. And by the way, Jamie rode the same amount of qualifiers as Alip Bataan. You know, he just. He got a semi final at cold Hawaii, and a cold Hawaii semifinal for me is better than a. Better than a podium in Italy. I mean, that's the thing. Look, we can go round and round on this. I don't think we're going to see too many Red Bull qualifiers this year. I think, as I said, I think they got some egg on their face if they have them. I think the riders like you say he'll. I think they'll be a little bit more sort of committed, a little bit more aggressive to it, and we might see more of that. Yeah, that's a. That's super interesting because it will be interesting to see how the guys approach that, for sure. Jamie and Hugo, the two sort of more glaring names that missed out. They will Be they'll be more committed. But then Hugo brought up a good point as well. Like, well, how come there's not qualifiers in my part of the world? Why do I have to fly from New Zealand for everything?

C (32:30)

Because it's just him in New Zealand and everyone knows it's not.

B (32:34)

No, they have, Asia, they have.

C (32:35)

I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, mate. But no, but let me just, let me just make this very clear. I'm not justifying why Jamie wasn't in. I have no idea why Jamie wasn't in. Okay, so let me just, let me just say that. But I do think if there's qualifiers for the Red Bull King of the Air to not go, it means there is a chance that you won't get selected. You know, if Jamie has the level to be on the podium, then he could have just won the Italy event.

A (33:09)

Indeed. Let's. Let's move it on. Let's move it on. We've said this. We've covered it to, haven't we?

C (33:15)

I mean it was flat water as well in Italy. He should have gone. He's really good on flat water. What can I say?

A (33:21)

Okay, we're moving on and we should have gone as well. That was the one event we didn't attend.

C (33:28)

He might have. He might have been doing 35 meter loop on a foil kite like shocking the world. He should have gone.

B (33:36)

Hil, how many qualifiers did you ride, bro?

C (33:40)

I rode the Tarifa one. I wrote cold Hawaii and I didn't make it to Italy because it was very last minute and actually from Tarifa. I don't know why but it was very freaking expensive and it took me three days to get there.

A (33:52)

Okay.

C (33:52)

So yeah, I wanted to go but I also had a project running around the same time and yeah, it just didn't work for me. I really tried but it didn't work for me. I would have gone for sure, but it was, I think €1200 to get to Italy from Spain.

B (34:10)

€1200?

C (34:12)

Yes.

A (34:12)

But also I'll say this for Heel so he doesn't have to heal. Was going to get into King of the Air regardless of a performance in Italy.

C (34:22)

No, but just because of my looks. Because of my looks is what Colin's trying to say.

A (34:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we're moving. We are. We're mo. No, no more talking. We're moving this on Heel. Everyone wants to know where the sport is going to head this year. What is the judging criteria going to try and push it towards in big air where are the riders going to try and take it? Where do you see it ending up?

C (34:46)

That's a very good question. I know that if it's going the direction where King of the Air was this year, with the variety score and the. And the overall writing is going to win it. It's going to be the year of the casatis. I think any, any one of them, both of them. Maybe we just have a 1, 2 throughout the whole year. I always like to see a bit of risk, not just complete writing, because complete writing does show the best rider in on, you know, on average. But at the same time, the best show to watch is when people are going all out going. You know, if we can have a competition where people are looping at 30 meters with the kite level, I'll take that any day of the week. Over 20 meter loops, but incredibly technical, both ways, both hands looping, contra looping, you know, like we want. In the end of the day, I think Big Air is all about a massive show of height, power, extremity and technicality, but with emphasis on height and power, in my opinion.

A (35:55)

Do we think. And heel. I know this is a really charged question for you, but I have to ask it because everyone's thinking it. Are we going to see more foil kites in competition?

C (36:07)

Oh, God.

A (36:08)

And the reason that's controversial, guys, is because Luca Taruti used a fall kite to knock hail out of King of the Air. Just to just, just remind the audience not to remind you here, Remember, audience first here on this podcast.

C (36:21)

It's a great question. I'm curious as well if that's going to be the thing that's taking over this year, but I honestly don't know. I mean, obviously there's a lot of riders that think it's the absolute future. Most of the riders that think that are fly surfer riders, though. But I don't. I don't know. I mean, I ride a foil. I tried a foil kite a couple times and it's like a different sport, honestly, where hang time is just, you know, it's. It's a complete different. It's a complete different game. But I think in strong wind it definitely loses a bit of extremity. But yeah, like I said, I. I'm curious about it myself as well.

B (37:07)

I don't know healers, any young writers coming out of. Coming out of call that we should keep our eyes on, or someone that you want to sort of give a shout out to, someone who's maybe not going to make moves this year, but it's Definitely a name for the future.

C (37:20)

Well, we all know Shahar Sabadi, right?

B (37:22)

My Tsaba Shahar, we don't need to talk about, bro. Come on. Yeah, let's move. Who's the next kid?

C (37:27)

If you don't follow Shahar's every single step, go and do it now. Is this, this kid is. This kid is the future, you know, why is the future. Because he's gonna do it and he's gonna do it the right way. He's not going to be cocky, he's not going to be arrogant, he's not going to be this next level competition beast that everybody hates. He's just going to be a nice guy and at the same time show everybody how it's done.

B (37:48)

Heel. You know what he said to me on the beach when I, when you guys were doing that sort of testing day? I said, mate, you're the, you're the, you're the core number one now. He says, he said, no, no, heel's the number one. I said, but mate, soon you'll be the number one. He goes, I'll always just be behind. Heel. How's that for sure? I said, mate, you need to knock him off. I said, he'll want you to knock him off.

C (38:05)

Yes, I do. I mean, he already does in terms of tricks he can do. I can just look at it and say, my goodness. And he's starting to go really high and he's putting the kite really low. And I think what's super excited about watching him now is that he's got that Lorenzo Leonardo technicality, but he's got the proper power in the loops that Andrea has been showing us as well over the last couple of competitions. So he's like, he's a really good mix, I think, I think his last reel or something he posted in where he's kiting in his home spot was just epic because it's technical, but it's super powered. And that's. Personally, that's where I love to see the sport going. Obviously we want to see rotations and board offs and tornadoes and all this kind of stuff, but if it's not done with a kite level and yanking you like crazy, then what's the point? So, yeah, for me is the future.

B (39:01)

Colin, who do you, like? Give me a young name that you're oppressed with and someone that's coming up that you think people should get to know.

C (39:07)

Mate, personally, I really like Shahad Spari.

A (39:12)

I mean, this is stupid to say because he was on the podium, but I do think Leonardo Casati is going to come through and probably be the one that topples the trap. So I can't really look too far past him. I think he's like Lorenzo, but.

B (39:32)

Just.

A (39:32)

So laser focused and like, has wanted it for so long and is so determined and I can see him putting everything. I can see him sacrificing everything to get there. So as a young rider, that excites me to watch in competition, it's Leonardo Casati. But I realize that's quite a vanilla choice in terms of people coming through. What about Maxwell Dahl coming out of Denmark? I think it's been a long time since we've had an amazing rider from Denmark, since Nick Jacobson. Really? Yeah. I think Maxwell Dahl, 1, he's got the riding too. When we met him and we've known him since he was a kid now. Yeah, he's just got that. There's some riders you just meet and you're just like, yeah, okay, he's got it. Brands are going to like this. Internet's going to like this. I like this. And, and he was that. So, yeah, he's my really young gun.

C (40:27)

Is Finn Flugel considered. Considered young or not Finn?

A (40:32)

No, no. He's a freestyle world champion.

C (40:36)

I'm just saying he's a problem.

B (40:38)

No, I'm trying to find names that maybe people don't know too much about. I think Max Tullett is a name that we could probably see more of. Has read in the GK in the past. At the age of 10, he came on the scene, everyone was talking about him, sort of drifted away with the school, but I think he's a bit more focused and, and back and, and, and the other kid that I really think is a name for the future is a couple years older than Maxwell Dahl, which is this young kid out of Wicker as well. Martin Kab Kobisky. I think this kid is super talented. And it's funny, we. We were just mentioning these names at the top. Oh, where are they going? Where are they going? People like Martin and Maxwell, they got brands asking them all the time to join. You know, I know they're cheap. I know they don't have that sort of, you know, that sort of capital need at the moment. But it's funny how those guys are, you know, just sort of saying no to brands where the other people at the top are trying to find brands. So, yeah, I think Max Martin, Max Tullett. Yeah. All these kids, I think they're going to be big names in the next two or three years. I Think Martin sooner because he's a little bit older. These kids are names for the future, so get used to them.

A (41:39)

And then in the women's, Aya Casabova, I think is leading the pack.

C (41:45)

Yeah, agreed.

B (41:46)

She's, I think, a five or six time junior world champion. She's a junior world champion of freestyle in strapless and big air. Yeah, kind of a. A pretty awesome talent. Really mature for age. I'm looking forward to seeing her next stage and next development because, you know, it was a breakout year last year. She did super well. I think she's ranked seventh in the ladies, so it'd be interesting to see where she can take that in the 2026 season. I don't think she has any pressure on her. I think it's. She can probably enjoy this year and then start thinking when she's 17, 18, about putting pressure on those top girls.

A (42:17)

Let's go back to the name you just mentioned. Hail Finn Flugel. He is the star of the third episode of the Blank Kite Test. He goes on a blank slingshot code and tears it to pieces. You're going to see that in the episode and you're also going to see it on Instagram and looking forward to it. My question to you here is what makes him so special? Because it's obvious he just is electric with a kite, electric on screen. But for you, what, what makes the difference?

C (42:48)

He's just a competitor through and through. I played table tennis against him like I think four years ago or something, and I think we played it to 11 or something and I was ahead 10 to 2 and I was just talking shit like, ah, mate, you're done. Like, you're not gonna come back from this. And he beat me 12 to 10. Just, just the little things, you know, Like, I love to see that in him. Like, he, he was not. It didn't do anything to him. He just had a smile on his face and he's like, okay, yeah, let's do it, you know, So I, I love that. I think he's. He's one of those guys that absolutely thrives in competition. And he's just, he's growing right now, you know, like, physically growing and he's becoming stronger and stronger. So I think, you know, if he gets a couple more kilos on him and he gets a bit more muscle, then he's just going to be unstoppable because in terms of technicality and kite feel, he's way ahead of so many riders already. So he's going to be a problem for Many years to come. Like, yes or yes.

B (43:54)

Do you think you can do it in multiple disciplines? I mean, he's doing the freestyle. He wants to do Big Ear. He's obviously doing the hydrofoil bigger as well. Hugo does it in multiple disciplines as well. The Casadi is doing multiple disciplines. Is that a viable training or pathway to get time on the water for Big Ear, or do you just think you need to ride the strong winds and you just need to be focused? Because those guys seem to be doing.

C (44:17)

It right for me. It would absolutely not be a possibility for him. I mean, it is because he's already there. We're talking about who's the biggest snob that didn't make it to King of the Year, or, like, who got, you know, who got robbed the most or whatever. We're talking about Hugo and we're talking about Jamie. But maybe Finn is. Is most worthy of being in there, because, honestly, he's doing everything. And if there's a new trick, he's already there. And if there's a new style, he's already there. And if there's, you know, he was doing S. Loop triple flips. Why. Why wouldn't he be already there? You know, so he can do both, I'm sure.

B (44:57)

Does he come up to Tarifa to train a bit as well?

C (44:59)

Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, it's. Let's say it's quite impressive.

A (45:07)

Epic. Epic. Yeah. Guys, he is on. Actually, when this podcast comes out, it'll be. That episode will be being released at 4, 4pm CET on Thursday the 22nd, so you can go and watch Finn and look out for it on Instagram, too. Yeah. Finn Flugel, one for the future, currently on Duotone and is touted to be the next big thing. I also think it's important here that he's German. I think it's been a long time since we've had a massive German name that flies under that flag hill. You speak German, don't you? Do you speak to Finn in German, though?

C (45:47)

No, I speak German, but I don't speak to Finn in German or to Alessa, like, maybe for fun every now and then. I think most German I speak to is to. To Jason, because he's learning. Yeah, he's learning and it's really fun.

B (46:04)

You should be speaking to Luke McGilloway. He's supposed to be learning German as well, isn't he? Didn't he tell us part of his contracts? That's got to learn German, mate. Flysafe. It's all in German. Every.

C (46:14)

Every meeting, he's going to have to convince me in German that foil kites are the future. That's going to be a great exercise for him.

B (46:21)

Maybe it's a free foil kite for some journalism.

A (46:25)

Heel. Tell us about the next few months for you. Hill and I, for some context, by the way, realized that we are both going to Japan to film some kiteboarding content, thinking it was going to be the most original stuff this year and that no one else had gone or would ever go. So we had a funny text exchange being like, shit, the other one's going, when are you going to Japan? Who you going there with? What you filming? And have you got any other projects on this year?

C (46:57)

Right now the plan is to go in March with Stiggy, but we haven't booked a flight yet, so it's not. It's not 100% set in stone, but we'll be looking to film a project there. And then there's a couple more ideas, but I don't want to tell them because then you might just do it with Jetto somewhere.

A (47:17)

Yeah, exactly.

B (47:19)

Jetto's a once a year. Once a year. We can only put up with them for a maximum of about 10 days. That's it.

C (47:25)

No, but I definitely want to do some cool projects to some really nice places or places people haven't kited yet or try to capture something that people haven't done yet. So there's ideas for that. I think there's more of a thing. There's more YouTube videos ideas right now than competitions happening. So I'm gonna have to shift my focus from only competing to filmmaking as well a little bit. And then getting brutally criticized by Colin.

A (47:56)

Yes, yes. I'll be quite damning, I'd imagine. And. Right, last question. Then. We'll let you go. Now, we know you take Padel incredibly seriously. It's something that I can't get my head around. But do you. Have you ever worked up a sweat, or is that something you're hoping to also achieve playing that this year?

C (48:16)

All right, well, I will say that tennis is more of a sport than Padel is. Absolutely. But I definitely sweat when I play Padel.

A (48:24)

Yes.

C (48:25)

I remember Colin and I played Padel for, like, an interview and it was a really cool match. And it was never broadcasted.

A (48:32)

Yeah. Weird that.

C (48:34)

Never broadcast.

A (48:35)

Just sort of. Yeah. Didn't quite make it.

C (48:40)

Quite sad.

B (48:40)

It just fell out the window on the way home from the. From the.

C (48:43)

I feel like that's kind of. Kind of the same story as Finn and me. Playing table tennis, but pretty much in paddle with.

B (48:50)

With.

C (48:50)

With Colin. Right. It would be quite cool to show the competitiveness, but no, it disappeared. Such a pity.

A (48:58)

We actually should bring table tennis table to. To the kite events. When there's no.

B (49:02)

When there's no wind, carry a table tennis table round. And we'll just buy it.

A (49:06)

We'll just buy it wherever we go.

B (49:08)

In the wind.

A (49:09)

No, inside. Inside.

B (49:11)

Inside where?

A (49:12)

Well, set up.

B (49:15)

We're going to carry a marquee and a tennis. We're going to set up a full indoor table tennis thing so the boys can hit the ball. Right, that's enough. Let. Let's. Let's wrap this up and get over here. It's a first episode for the year. It's been a success. But let's not kill it with a. With a marquee and a table tennis table.

A (49:29)

Okay. Okay. Yes. Good, good, good. He'll. Thank you very much for joining. You are epic and we want you back. We're gonna. We're gonna buy Hill a really nice microphone so we can hear his lovely bassy voice.

B (49:41)

Oh, here's the number one. Here's the number one. You'll get him something nice.

C (49:44)

I'm looking forward to it.

A (49:46)

Yeah.

C (49:46)

Might just start singing you some songs if you buy me a really nice one.

A (49:50)

Yes, good. Okay. Thank you to us, as always. We'll see you in the next one. Goodbye.