Changing Times | The Megapod

Summary

Kitesurf365 – The Megapod

Episode: “Changing Times”
Date: July 31, 2025
Hosts: Adrian Kerr (A), Colin Colin Carroll (B)

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Overview

This episode of The Megapod dives deep into the rapidly evolving landscape of big air kiteboarding, reflecting on changes from the 2023 Red Bull Megaloop to today’s scene. Adrian and Colin reminisce about the sport’s heroes, discuss equipment innovation, and speculate on upcoming talent and competitions. The tone is irreverent, candid, and playful, blending insider knowledge with honest debate, keeping both seasoned fans and newcomers engaged.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comparing 2023 vs 2025: "Texture of the Landscape"

• Colin coins the term “texture of the big air landscape” to describe how the scene has shifted (01:06).
• They look back at the Megaloop 2023: murky skies, short-notice call-ups, and frantic rider logistics.

  “Everyone flew in the night before or the day of because it was unbelievably short notice. Less than 24—I think it was 20 hours notice.” (06:48 – A)

• The emergence of new kites and sponsor brands, like Harlem, and their impact.

  “Harlem wasn't a player… They jumped on the brainchild opportunity before anyone else did and are now making the kites that are challenging… companies with so much bigger resources.” (15:46 – A)

• The discussion frames 2023 as a gritty, old-school event, on the cusp of today's more technical, professional, and commercial scene.

2. Rider Transitions, Momentum & Mental Game

• Examining Andrea’s career resurgence and training intensity.

  “I’ve actually never seen a guy who stretches so much when he’s sitting on the floor… Andre is razor focused and he does a lot of training off the water.” (04:07 – B)

• Jamie Overbeek’s professionalism and gear changes, contrasted with his event strategy.
• Comparing the longevity and mental resilience of champions:

  “A lot of people win [King of the Air] once and then go on to really struggle… and [Andrea]'s one of the only people that hasn’t.” (03:35 – A)

• Liam Whaley’s injury explored as a classic “chicken or egg”: Did physical or mental pressures come first?

  “Liam's actually really clever. He's almost too smart to do an extreme sport at a high level… The guys that do not think whatsoever seem to thrive in big air better.” (19:26 – A)

• The rising generation: new stars like Hugo Wigglesworth, Baby Shark, and Leonardo Casati, and whether technical innovation or raw power will be rewarded by traditional mega loop judging (24:48 – A&B).

3. Wildcard Dilemmas & Event Selection

• The dilemma over giving wildcards to past winners vs. new faces.

  “The talent’s too high now. There’s just too much on the line and there’s too many guys who want to ride.” (08:10 – B)

• A spirited debate: Should “Baby Shark” or Marc Jacobs get the next Megaloop wildcard?

  “If Mark was put in above him, do you think it would give Baby Shark the kick up the ass that he so obviously needs?” (11:35 – A)

  • The verdict: Baby Shark’s got the skill, but “needs that mental capacity.”
• Logistics and commitment: Marc Jacobs’ round-the-world travels just to possibly make the last-minute event (07:23 – B).

4. Women’s Field: Progress & Challenges

• Recapping likely female qualifiers based on King of the Air rankings (26:44).
• Noting the depth of women’s big air is still developing.

  “The talent is kind of shallow, right. I’d like to see more young girls coming through, more young ladies stepping up…” (31:51 – B)

• Talk about the unmet potential and injuries sidelining strong contenders like Jasmine Cho and Nina Rautenbach (29:11 – A&B).
• Mika’s ambivalence toward left-foot-forward events and speculation about her future.

  “She’s one of the most epic kiteboarders to ever touch a kite. But… she won’t go early enough. She won’t train for it.” (28:04 – A)

5. Equipment Innovation & Budget Kiting

• Evaluating the impact of affordable kite brands—especially Gong.

  “It could crash the price of kites, which we’re sort of excited about, honestly.” (36:15 – A)

• Hands-on takes: pros and cons of Gong kites, comparing them with classic brands like Cabrinha.
• The spread of “budget” gear could democratize the sport, but also threatens legacy brands.

  “If something’s gonna turn the industry on its head, I love it.” (36:34 – B)

• Revealing Gong’s massive online marketing spend.

  “They spend 1 million euros a year on Google advertising.” (39:48 – A)

6. Competition Forecasts & Format Innovation

• Anticipation for the next Megaloop, Cold Hawaii, and King of the Air—featuring technical progression, fresh locations, line length innovations, and higher event standards (40:39 – B).
• Brainstorm: “Ghost Cam”—an idea for superimposing trick comparisons to help analyze rider performance, and debating its viability in variable competition venues (41:07 – A&B).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Texture Talk:

  “I thought looking at the texture of the big air landscape in relation to the Megaloop 2023 vs 2025…” (01:06 – B, reading his own message)

• Andrea’s Focus:

  "I've never seen a guy who stretches so much when he's sitting on the floor… Andre is razor focused…" (04:07 – B)

• Legend Status:

  “If you win King of the Air, you’re like a… you go down as a legend for life.” (26:30 – B > 26:37 – A)

• Mika’s Mindset:

  “Her exact words were, ‘I don’t have anything to prove.’” (22:03 – B)

• Colin on Liam's Overthinking:

  “Liam’s actually really clever. He’s almost too smart to do an extreme sport at a high level. He’s too cerebral…” (19:26 – A)

• On Women’s Fleet Depth:

  “…The talent is kind of shallow. Right. It’s kind of a bit weak when you look at it like that. I'd like to see more young girls coming through…” (31:51 – B)

• On Gong's Disruption:

  “The rest of the industry are all quite worried about Gong, obviously, because it could crash the price of kites, which we're sort of excited about, honestly.” (36:15 – A) “If something’s gonna turn the industry on its head, I love it.” (36:34 – B)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:43 – Reflections on Red Bull Megaloop 2023 and sport evolution
• 01:41 – Big Air landscape: evolution, big names, and new kites
• 03:26 – Andrea’s resurgence, mental pressure, and King of the Air legacies
• 05:23 – Jamie Overbeek, his gear journey, and professional mindset
• 06:48 – Logistics of last-minute competitions and commitment
• 08:10 – Wildcard debates: who deserves a shot?
• 15:46 – Harlem’s rapid rise in gear sponsorship and tech
• 17:45 – The mental and physical challenges in elite athlete performance
• 24:48 – Future trends: technical progression vs Megaloop simplicity
• 26:44 – Women’s division: likely picks, injuries, and the next generation
• 36:15 – Equipment revolution: Gong’s pricing and impact
• 40:39 – Looking ahead: majors to watch in 2025 and potential format innovations
• 41:07 – “Ghost Cam”: tech innovation for competition coverage

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Flow & Style Notes

• The conversation is fast-moving, blending tangents, banter, and in-depth knowledge.
• Hosts openly debate, poke fun at each other, and self-deprecate their own expertise.
• Technical analysis is balanced by stories from behind the scenes, with a frequent eye on how sport culture is shifting.

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Closing Thoughts

• Hosts emphasize the excitement for upcoming major events and the importance of innovation, both on and off the water.
• There's a keen sense that kiteboarding is at a generational and technological turning point, and both are eager to see how competition, gear, and talent will adapt.

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For those who missed the episode, this summary delivers the pulse of the current big air kiteboarding scene and the unique flavor of The Megapod’s candid, honest commentary.

Transcript

[A]

Yeah, well, I was.

[B]

It kind of felt a bit dated.

[A]

When the bib's on and the buzzer's gone.

[B]

Do you think we'll see a previous winner?

[A]

Murky grey skies.

[B]

I mean, was the rise a good kite?

[A]

Chicken or egg?

[B]

The next sort of phase of the Megaloop.

[A]

Everyone went nuts for that.

[B]

That's a really good question. Catastrophic equipment failure.

[A]

Going for the boogie loop double just to get the landing. Had a couple of strings and it was extremely dangerous.

[B]

Guys, I sent the trap. And it is gold for El and gold for Great Britain. We're back, Colin. Another week goes by in the world of kiteboarding. A lot's been happening. Not has it?

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna say.

[B]

No, it's not. Not too much. But I was actually watching the Red Bull Megaloop the other day because I like to watch old comps and, you know, just relive that excitement. And sports changed so much, man. It's. It's. It's kind of interesting how. How much it's changed.

[A]

I'm gonna read out a message that you sent to our work group at 9. 25 this morning.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I thought looking at the texture of the big air landscape in relation to the mega loop 2023 versus 2025. Texture of the big air landscape. That is not. That's not in your vocab.

[B]

It is actually.

[A]

That is generated by.

[B]

Why would I ask AI to do that? No, but I was actually talking about the texture of the landscape. You know, maybe I just thought I would impress you guys all in the morning when you woke up to my text, you know.

[A]

Yeah, well, I was. I was taken aback by it.

[B]

The texture of the landscape.

[A]

Let's talk about the difference in textures then take us back to 2023. Paint the picture. Give us a feel.

[B]

There's just interesting points. Right. I mean, the first. The first one that made me laugh is that. That heals. Riding ocean rodeo. I mean, it seems like a long time ago since we saw Heel on ocean rodeo. Right. How was that? Was that two years he was with them?

[A]

Yeah. And he. Whatever they paid him, he would have outsold his salary for sure because everyone went nuts for that first Alula kite that you did. The double on that we've got a copy of. We've got a blank copy of it that never made it into a test. I can't really remember the rise. Yeah, I've got a rise.

[B]

I mean, was the rise a good kite?

[A]

No.

[B]

I mean, I think at the time it was just revolutionary in it. In the speed it Created, I think. I mean, I. I guess he doesn't mind me talking about this. I remember being on the beach the day before and he was having all these problems with his bridle and he was cursing walking around, how the. Am I supposed to compete on this with this bridle that nothing's in line? And he was just trying to re. Get it resort. And obviously it had. He'd worked with Su K in the Cape Town season before helping with the bridal. So, yeah, that. That was pretty interesting to. To see that. And the other thing that made me laugh was the focus then was all doubles, right? It's all everyone talking about Andre. I want to do the snake and I want to do the S and all this stuff, which I don't know if Andre ever landed a snake or S in competition, but he seems to, has he? No. And for sure Lorenzo has.

[A]

Snake.

[B]

I think Andrea's just buried that now. He's just. He's moved on from that. He's looking. He's doing that classic, looking to the.

[A]

Left, thinking, he must have my eyes.

[B]

Done. I'm talking about done in practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking about in competitions.

[A]

The only place it matters, mate, when the bib's on and the buzz is.

[B]

Gone, is Andre got that momentum back, that 23 momentum. You think? Does it feel that way to you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, he's won the last two big events, right.

[A]

It's amazing what just winning a King of the Air does, but a lot of people are suffocated by it. A lot of people win it once and then go on to really struggle in the coming months and years. And he's one of the only people that hasn't. If you think about it, Nick Jacobson wins it. Gone. Marc Jacobs wins it. Gone. Kevin, super successful again and again. Aaron super successful again and again. Lorenzo wins it. Hasn't won it since. He's won other stuff, but not since.

[B]

It'S a big call. I think with Mark, it's tough. That's tough on Mark. Just purely for the fact that the game changed after 2022. Right. The new guys turned up and they just took it to a. To a new level. You know, Andre, I mean, he did back up talking about Andrea maybe getting the momentum back from that 23. He did win Lords of Tram convincingly, like the thing, by about four or five points. I mean, that's probably set that ball in motion. You know, we saw him in Mykonos. You know, a lot of people that Andre, he's Not training. He's doing this. I've actually never seen a guy who stretches so much when he's sitting on the floor. He's just constantly stretching and moving and manipulating himself and. And I can assure you guys, Andre is razor focused and he does a lot of training off the water. More training, I think, than the other boys do. I know Lorenzo said he does go to the gym, but only if there's no wind. If there's wind, he doesn't. He just trains on the water.

[A]

I think Overbeak probably trumps it all in terms of professionalism.

[B]

Did you see that picture of him on his. On his Instagram the other day with his shirt off? Bro, He's a big unit.

[A]

That's not the sort of content I get excited about, honestly.

[B]

But I'm impressed by the physique. I was. I mean, he's nothing like Peter. He's like a stretched out Peter, you know, he's. He's a mate. He's a big boy now, man.

[A]

That's Peter Overbeek, his father, by the way, who is great behind the camera. I think Jamie Overbeek is spending more time on the water than anyone else on earth right now, but he's not chasing the big wins. This is what has always sort of plagued him. Whereas, you know, Lorenzo, Jeremy, Andrea got to where they are by flicking back and forth between Tenerife, Tarifa and Greece.

[B]

But you know what, though, dude, I can. I'll push back on that by saying, look, not every event is held in thermonuclear winds, you know, and you do have to be able to ride all types of conditions. And I think Jamie. That's Jamie's strength that he can push it in the marginal wins, you know, the 25 to 30, which is marginal for big ear, I guess, apart from.

[A]

This King of the air.

[B]

Yeah, well, I mean, again, he just got. He just got a bit unlucky there. I mean, he just. He just ran into Steno, who just seemed to have the wind and wave on tap that day. You know, just. He would tack out and just push the red button and boom, they would just line up in front of him. But, you know, it's funny, speaking of Jamie, back then, he was on Ozone, then he went to independent, then he went to F1. Now he's back to independent. So Jamie's changed so much in those last two years from. From the. From that Melo back then. Wasn't really happy with Ozone, Went independent, went to F1, never really settled back to independent again. So he's changed a lot in those, in those two years as well.

[A]

Let's take you back to the texture of 2023. So it was like murky gray skies, aggressive rainy wind that was coming through in front slowly building throughout the day. Everyone flew in the night before or the day of because it was unbelievably short notice. Less than 24 I think was 20 hours notice. It was ridiculous. Marc Jacobs flew from New Zealand to the Middle east and just sat there in case it got called. That's how committed he was to get in there and riding Megaloop.

[B]

I think he was coming back from the Wind Seekers Fest in Egypt. He got off in Dubai and waited just in case they caught it, then change his flight and flew. But yeah, I mean it's, yeah, whatever he's, he's holding plans, he's making, you know, booking hotels and different countries and just waiting. Do you remember Lorenzo pulled out? He was with us the week before.

[A]

Yeah, we were, we were filming the blank check the week before with him. He came down with a nasty flu and we left a 17 year old boy on his own in the Airbnb without a car. See ya. See ya.

[B]

Lorenzo. 25Ks from the spot.

[A]

Somehow forgave us. Yeah, somehow forgave us for that and.

[B]

Bought it and bought the bags back.

[A]

Legend. Legend.

[B]

It's interesting when you look at this mega, this mega loop. The first 10 guys, all of those guys have thrown one competition, one mega loop and, and Lorenzo's the only guy who hasn't. Unlike the, you know, the Cota where you got people like I think Aaron and, and, and Kevin, they've written like nine king of the years. Right. I mean all these guys have only ever written one Red Bull Megaloop except for Lorenzo who's never in one. So that's, that's pretty interesting. I think in the past with the Mega loop they used to have, they'd always give a wild card to the previous winners. You know, Ross has always written Lassie always gets a wild card. Josh. I, I don't know if they're going to give those guys cards this year or going to give them spots. I just think the, the talent's too high now. You know, there's just, there's just too much on the line and there's too many guys who want to ride. Do you think we'll see a previous winner outside? Outside of Andrea.

[A]

Lasso Walker won't be in 2015 winner. He won't be a knees out with injury at the moment. Probably Wouldn't have made the fleet. Regardless, if we are honest, Aaron Hadlow's never done it. He could be put in. And in my book, obviously I'm quite biased. I bloody love the guy, but I think he deserves a spot. He can put his kite low. He's been doing it in competitions forever. He's good at this shit. Give him a spot. Marc Jacobs. If north and mystic are sponsoring megaloopies in with a better shot, would you.

[B]

Give it to Baby Shark over Mark? If there were, if there was sponsors, wildcard, let's just call it that. We don't know, would you go Marc Jacobs or would you go Baby Shark? Because he's. I could pitch a case for Baby Shark. He does short lines.

[A]

Does he?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Okay, let's argue this then. I'm back in Mark for that because he's a major winner. He wrote his ass off last time was double looping when no one was. He's more experienced and those are my points.

[B]

Okay, great points. But he also made massive strategic errors which he admitted to after by not changing the line lengths and going too long on the lines.

[A]

Baby Shark's never done that.

[B]

Baby Shark does that religiously. But I mean, if you are going to build your stable of athletes moving forward, you know, Mark is. Now I see Mark as that R and D guy. I don't know how many more competitions Mark's going to make. I think he'll do king of the year this year just because he got a semi final last year.

[A]

Semi final, didn't he? Thank you. That's another point.

[B]

I mean he. But by the way, he only went into, I don't know was it was round three or the quarterfinals of the Megaloop last time because Luca Trudy got knocked out. And rather because it's only a one trick and done rather than one run a man short, they just shifted up Mark, who got picked at the post actually by Luca in the. In the heat before and put him in. So I, I mean also I'd love to see Mark there, but I would also love to see Baby Shark there. I think that, you know, we saw him riding the day before the Megaloot last time and he sort of seemed thrive in those conditions. And he's definitely grown a lot since then. So it'd be super cool to see him get an opportunity in the second biggest major in our sport.

[A]

If Mark was put in above him, do you think it would give Baby Shark the kick up the ass that he so obviously needs?

[B]

I mean, I really hope so. I mean, I really hope so. Look, some people take longer to get it right. Other people, you know, it's like that. You know, we were, we were using Hugo as a good example, right. Hugo's just come on the scene and probably New Zealand's number one, Hugo Wigglesworth, he doesn't have the experience yet, but man, he's just got that mental game. Baby Shark has all the experience in the world but doesn't, doesn't have that mental capacity. I hope he grows into that and finds that and, and, and can start putting out those results. Yeah, it's a, it's a, that's a, that's a tough one. I, I, I think I'd like to see Baby Shark there just because I think it's the, I think it's his time, you know.

[A]

Well, I'm sure you do think that. Okay. But yeah, I remember that session before. So the night before we fly in with Baby Shark because I can't. Oh, he was first reserve, actually.

[B]

I don't think he was, I think he, he wasn't a reserve. And when we got there we just went to the, because they were, actually went really deep into the reserve list, if you remember, because it was such a short notice and baby, we put Baby Shark's name forward and I think, I think he was like two or three on the list. Pretty much wasn't going to get a chance. But yeah, last, last minute, Larry. Top stuff, you know.

[A]

So we went to the event site for a session the night before. You know, he hasn't ridden King of the Air yet. Doesn't even know he's in King of the Air at this point. He was just sort of breaking through and we were filming him extensively for the YouTube documentary we did that was part of a three part series. And yeah, he was kind of impressing everyone and worrying everyone at that point. It was so, it was distinctive because it was so dark. Like it was a grim day in Holland. Gray skies, brown water, howling winds, people in coats, goggles everywhere. So much sound moving videographers in the sea for it. And everyone turned up with this like amazing energy that you don't get at any other kite events other than King of the Air. Everyone turns up and is like, this is a big one. And you can kind of see that in the riding and the commitment as well. Andrea winning it with that double loop on a 8 meter evo D lab which we hadn't seen doubled at that point and yeah, just falling out the sky basically and just about saving his own legs and Doing that strange, like twitchy thing he was doing with his feet at that point, like kind of lifting one foot, one foot pad up and then the other one and back and forth in order to like, I don't know, brace for impact or something. But yeah, and also this was the 2023 to add to the. The final layer to the texture was those amazing interviews he did where Yellow Langary gets the microphone.

[B]

I don't even know if that's a question, but what the. Ooh. And off he went.

[A]

Yeah, he gets the microphone offer without me and then just goes. And then hands it back to her at the end. And yeah, amazing event, wasn't it? So let's look forward to this year. What's the texture going to be interesting?

[B]

You said that because I also said that it felt really special and really cool to be there because it'd been the first time in four years. But then at the end of the day, looking back at it and then listening to the comments and this chat from the live stream, it kind of felt a bit dated in the format. And I think now moving forward, we've got a new location, a new sort of feel to it, shorter line lengths. I really feel like this is sort of maybe the change or the sort of the next sort of phase of the mega loop. I think it was just a bit of a wake up call for, hey, this is a great idea, but it does need a freshen up. And I think we felt that. I want to say one more thing about Lorenzo. Lorenzo now rides Harlem 2023. Harlem wasn't a player, wasn't. It definitely wasn't a major player. It wasn't even. It was a brand. It wasn't even a player. It was just a brand.

[A]

It was kind of not even a brand, honestly. It was like no one had heard of it. No one. And if you had heard of it, you were mates with the people that run it. That was it. That was it. They were always nice guys and they were always making shit kite. And then they were. They're still nice guys, but then they jumped on the brainchild opportunity before anyone else did and are now making the kites that are challenging, like businesses and companies with so much bigger resources to R D. And I've nabbed Lorenzo Casati and Aaron Hadley and Lana Herman, who should not be forgotten. So, yeah, you're right. The emergence of Harlem and Harlem's Dutch and it feels super Dutch. They've even called it Harlem, which is a place in Holland not far from Amsterdam.

[B]

Pretty cool. It's Kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy to think the, the look, I'm sure they're doing well. 100 they're doing well, and I hope they do do well out of it. The other, the other thing that, you know, sort of raised my eyebrows was, you know, Liam got second in that event. He's only written one comp since that event, and that's the. The Baccarat's Lords of Tram, which, by the way, he did super well at. I hope he's still got ambitions to do well in comps, but he rode that comp, I think. Unlucky not to win, to be honest. And then it wasn't. It was a few weeks after that where we started hearing the rumors about his back and he was starting to struggle. You know, he said on that last podcast he didn't really feel it straight after. He sort of felt it the few days leading into it on the plane, but that's when it's sort of. That was the catalyst. I think that was the one that sort of pushed him over the edge and made him realize that this isn't a small problem. It's going to be a big problem.

[A]

Here's a question for you. Liam's back injury. Was it the physical back problem that gave him. That put him in a mental hole, or was it his mental situation that made him susceptible to things like backs and made him feel all that pain? Chicken or egg?

[B]

That's a really good question, Colin.

[A]

Thank you, Adrian.

[B]

Yet I think a lot of elite sports people battle with some type of, you know, mental pressure and anxiety at times. I think that's just part of being an elite level sportsman. And if you think about it that way, then you have to think getting the back injury is like, you know, it's like. It's like water and sand. You know, it just opens up all these different rivers and it just can navigate into every channel of your body, which then opens up these pathways, ways for insecurities and anxiety to. To rush in. I. I would like to say it's that way and that sort of makes sense, but I've also seen guys. But no, but that doesn't make sense, though, because Liam isn't a mentally weak guy. He's very, very mentally tough. So you'd have to think that the back injury just. Just broke the camel's back. Really? Which way? Do you see it?

[A]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Which is why I wanted your take on it. I can't decide. I flipped back and forth.

[B]

Oh, really? So how. What's your view opposite to me then? If you could put that into a short narrative. See, I'm using these big words today. Got 10 hours sleep, narrative texture.

[A]

So, yeah, your argument was that the back hurt, so then the water and sand and everything hurt. So you think the back came first. So I'll try and argue the other way. I think, yeah. Liam, he is mentally tough for sure. He's amazing in a heat. But this was the first year that a really young person, a Gen Z, a tiktoker, had come through and had held up a mirror to him and shown him that being world champion in bigger is going to be really difficult for the first time. And I think that could easily give you an existential crisis, particularly when you're the poster boy of the sport. You have. You're the kind of king of Tarifa almost, you know, massive kite school there and have all this expectation on you. But the thing that I. The thing I'll say about Liam that I think does maybe lend itself towards it being a mental thing and therefore the back and therefore other things is that Liam's actually really clever. He's almost too smart to do an extreme sport at a high level. He's too cerebral, he thinks about stuff. And the guys that do not think whatsoever seem to be able to thrive in bigger better than those before. I think this is why he was also so good at freestyle though, because it's so technical. You need to break down every single element. There's about 10 things that you need to be juggling all at once in freestyle, you know, you need loose limbs in order to be like, flowy and therefore powerful. You need the kite in the right position. You need to pop the living out of it. You need to be spotting your landing, you need to be rotating. You're looking down so you rotate quicker. You need to be going a bit downwind on your pop so that the kite's in the right position so it slides back and then goes, you know, you need all that. Whereas Big Air was different and I think Liam's too smart. I also think Micah has this problem too. It's not a problem yet, she's winning everything. But at some point, Mika's too bright to be in this, like, macho, kind of turn your brain off and send it, bro sort of world.

[B]

We're sort of hearing that from Mika anyway, right? Her exact words were, I don't have anything to prove. And she's 2020. I think she might be 21 now. I mean, I don't have anything to prove. That's kind of crazy, right?

[A]

So, yeah, there's the. You've seen the inside of Liam Whaley's mind from us. Who? We don't. We don't know. We don't know. Don't listen to us whatsoever.

[B]

Do you think it's an age thing as well? I mean, of course, as you get older, you become less.

[A]

How old do you see? Is he? 27?

[B]

No, I think he's probably 29 now. Isn't he?

[A]

Liam Whaley?

[B]

I think we have this. We have the same conversation. How old Liam is all the time. I think he's either 28 or 29. Let's go 28.

[A]

He's 96, therefore he's 28.

[B]

Turning 29.

[A]

His birthday's on November 4th. Bros.

[B]

So he's going to be 29 for King of the year. Yeah. I mean, it's like you have to think that there is something in that as well. Right again then Mark is 35 now and still pushing it. I think it has to be to be Aaron and Mark at that age and still wanting to do it and still pushing and still prepared to. To push hard. I guess Mark's probably pushing harder than Aaron. I think it's probably fair to say it's kind of impressive and I hope that's. Yeah. I mean, I don't know where the mental breakdown starts or when that starts happening in big air, but a couple big crashes which Liam's had, man, that back is going to be on his mind forever.

[A]

20, 25. Texture paint it.

[B]

This could be Jeremy's first competition since he broke his leg.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

That's crazy too. That's been a long time. That's been a real long time.

[A]

So last time he was out there in a bib, he was world champion.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Suck on that.

[B]

And they haven't named the last six or the girls yet. But it's interesting, you know, like when you look at these six guys who you could choose off the video entries, I kind of feel like this next generation of kiteboard is quite technical. You know, we're seen to have moved away from the doubles. We're, you know, people like the big low powered singles now. But the guys are so technical in the way they ride the Zach Adams, the baby sharks, you know that the way they. The way they. The Hugos, the way they can move the board. And I feel like the Harden mega loop judges don't like that. The mega loop's always been simplicity by nature. Right. It's throw the biggest Most powerful crazy mega loop. You can. You can actually technically win with just a sick mega loop. You're not going to, but you could. But I mean, are they going to want to see this technical stuff now? Is it going to go that way on the 18s?

[A]

You're right. On those young boys, that's the only. That's their only card. That's their weakness, isn't it? Like if you chuck Leonardo Casati in the Megaloop, he won't rotate any less than three times. Four times. He won't.

[B]

In that next group, you got Baby Shark, Sugar Wigglesworth, Zach Adams, Leonardo Casadi, I guess. Well, Timo Bossima, he's been around some time. Parker Sage, that sort of group of. Of Rider. I would be. I'd be very surprised if there's a bolt over this one. It doesn't normally happen.

[A]

Are going to get chewed up and spat out at this one just because of what. Because they don't do short lines.

[B]

I don't think 18s is going to be that much different. I.

[A]

You know, it's going to be so different. It's going to be different. The really good guys will adapt for sure.

[B]

You think. You think people are going to struggle on 18s?

[A]

Yeah. The top five is going to be the same. We're going to see the same people in semi finals and final for sure. But outside of that there's going to be a gap. I know this stuff. I know bloody everything. Remember.

[B]

I think the technicality will still be there for sure. It's going to be interesting to see who that next six is because it is arguably the second biggest event in our sport and it's a. It's an amazing prize to win. It doesn't have the same power as a King of the Air. If you become one of the kings of the lineage of the kings. People don't really look at the mega loop in the same way. I guess. I guess it made Lassie walk and it definitely made Ross Dylan play and it actually probably arguably made Josh Emmanuel's career. So maybe it does. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if you do win this, it will make your career.

[A]

It's a big. Yeah, it's a big deal. It'll make your career. But it's not as big of a deal as winning Kenny. There's. It's not.

[B]

Yeah. You don't. You don't automatically get legend status. Right. If you win King of the Air, you're like a. You go down as a legend for life.

[A]

If. Okay, so we've Gone. We've talked about maybe the final positions for the men's who are going to be the six women.

[B]

Yeah, that's it. Well, let me just read the six girls from King of the Air because we might. That might give us quite a good reference. Anjali Buu, Zara Huginrad, Francesca Maney, Natalie Lambrick, Pepper Van Ursul and Jasmine Cho.

[A]

Okay, so two are going to be out from that. Jasmine Cho is going to be out. Angelique Boyo will be out for sure.

[B]

I think Zara Franchesca and Pippa, you can basically lock them in. I think Natalie probably, if she can get a good video that leaves two.

[A]

Open, she'll have a banging video. I was watching her ride in Mykonos.

[B]

She was a joke actually. We saw her riding 18 meter lines there as well. It's kind of crazy. The girl needs to write 18s by the way. They can, they can ride normal 24s. So what two girls would you be thinking to go in there? Mika? Definitely no, she's not interested.

[A]

I do you know that she said.

[B]

She'S gonna, she's gonna go to case.

[A]

Left foot forward.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, she doesn't want to do that. I think she wants to focus on the King of the Air ladies division and get that one in the box. And I think if she can win that, I think she might be done with competition.

[A]

She can't. She's not going to win that. It's left foot forward. She's not going to go to Cape Town early enough.

[B]

You don't think she's good enough?

[A]

Not left foot forward, do you?

[B]

Don't think Michali Soul, if she put her mind to it, can do the Marc Jacobs of 2020 and convert?

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[B]

Does she want to.

[A]

She's one of the most talented epic kiteboarders to ever touch a kite. But she's not gonna, she won't try. She won't go. She's not gonna go early enough. She won't train for it.

[B]

I don't think does the boogie Bordeaux on the inside and the girls are just doing straight board offs. Maybe she can do it on the inside.

[A]

Yeah, but what three tricks is she going to do on the inside? Three she can do.

[B]

She can do Left foot forward. She can do. She can't. She does like old Andre the way Andre used to do it. She's do it by contras. Right, so you're shooting the message here. She just told me that's the one she wants to focus on. Does is she going to do this? Absolutely. Not. What about Lana Herman? What. What's the update on her? Where's she at?

[A]

She's still not back riding. But she's epic. She is epic. And it's still quite a long way away, eh?

[B]

Well, the videos are in. I mean, we should be finding it.

[A]

Yeah, but she'll have a ridiculous video. It'll be amazing. Her video.

[B]

Okay, well, let's look to the last podium we had. What about Sara Sadiq podium? That Lords of Tram?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think she's fringe, right? She. Let's be honest, she's probably French.

[A]

I would have said Nina Rautenbach from Germany, but she's been out with a knee injury as well. But watching her train last year, I was like, oh, my word, she's gonna be a problem. But then, yeah, injured has been out, but she's back now. But I think that's quite a distance to go. Also. It would kind of be our first competition, so that's a ridiculous thing to even put forward. Who else?

[B]

It's a tough one for the girls. And. And that's. That's the funny thing. Like, you know, we were asking about Zara. Are you happy with sex? Is six the right number? When you actually look at it this way, it's difficult, man. Is these. You couldn't even. You. You couldn't make a fair 12 lady fleet with. Of. Of certain standard level. When I look at the guys, Fleet poor. It's, you know, it's spot the weakness, and the weakness is maybe the person who's doing. Doing something differently opposed to everything else. So with the girls, it's tough, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Who else? One more girl. Come on, let's dig one more girl.

[B]

By the way, I don't actually know French. I don't actually know where Jasmine Cho is it with her injury, but I know she is coming back from an injury. She's obviously been in the States preparing for that. Anjali. Just. Nobody knows with Anjali. I just never know.

[A]

She's out.

[B]

She's done. Is she done?

[A]

She's out. I think she's probably done.

[B]

That's a shame.

[A]

I know. But I think she's probably done.

[B]

What about. What about Michelle Sky Haywood? Hey, if you want to hear Michelle. Michelle Sky Haywood, I think you're gonna have to tune into the members podcast, which we're going to record on the weekend, because we got some funny to tell you about that one. No pun intended.

[A]

That is gnarly. That is gnarly. What he's referring to last woman who's really good. That could sd.

[B]

Wow. I mean, she sort of burst on the scene a bit. Right.

[A]

Zoe Peters.

[B]

Zoe Peters is a good shout. She could. But again, it's like, I feel, I feel like with Zoe, she's got everything and she pulls off big tricks, but I just, I want to see some consistency from her as well. You know, Aya Kasabova getting super young there. Her time. Yeah.

[A]

And I think it would be amazing opportunity for her and could be the kind of jump that she would need because at the moment I think she's unsupported, but she's super good, really technical, going places. So I think stick her in. That's what I would do.

[B]

It's kind of shallow though, when you, when you look at the girls like that. And by the way, I'm not putting the ladies feets down at all. You know, we've always been a big supporter on that. But it's kind of. The talent is kind of shallow. Right. It's kind of a bit weak when you look at it like that. I'd like to see more young girls coming through, more young ladies stepping up and putting their hand up and, and hopefully we see in the next few years like the I Casabovas and that to, to put pressure and, and sort of follow what the men have done where you've got sort of there just. I mean, there's untolds of young men who want to get into these fleets who are either A, not young enough or B, just sitting behind legends. And I, I hope we're not getting to that same situation column where we had with King of the. Of the past, where it was like, it was like harder to be dropped from the competition to then to make the competition, you know, I mean, we are at a purple patch of men's begin. We've just got probably 18 guys who are so good. I hope we don't get stale in those guys. And I think I, I hope that we. We see sort of constant changing, constant sort of freshing of the fleet, because that's what Kite Body needs to sort of keep momentum going because if it doesn't, it gets a bit stale. And we saw that with the king of the air and years gone by.

[A]

We don't want boring podcasts.

[B]

We don't want any more podcasts like this one.

[A]

Indeed.

[B]

What about Hugo, man? You think he's got a chance? I'm high on Hugo these days. And by the way, Luca is in. You know, we were speaking last week about potentially of using that new, the Sonic Luca is already in. He. He got into the 10. If Hugo can get in the 6. That's just a great, great realization from Fly Server again, going back three years, two years. Fly Server wasn't really in the game back then as well. So they're another brand that's making big moves. It's got the Woo record, it's got Top R, it's got a podium at King of the Air. Yeah, that's kind of cool to see as well.

[A]

Indeed. We need to talk about Gong, Adrian. Whenever we mention it on Instagram, it just sort of kicks off. People are doing two things on Mass. It seems they're either really interested in whether that really cheap kite is any good. They want to know. The other thing is that because we've put it in a series that's funny. And it's alongside the Hadlow Kites, for example, that Jason Van Display managed to get 8 of. People think that we've put it in, like, to poke fun at Gong. And it's producing, like, a response that I wouldn't have picked like, Gong kind of like fans and loyalists are coming out and being like, oi, Gong is epic. What other Kite brand has that? It's kind of mad. And my response to those people is like, we've put it in a series that's seen by tens of thousands of people. Like, we're.

[B]

We're promoting Gong.

[A]

They're like, stop it. Like, you kind of couldn't get much better advertising for it.

[B]

Actually, Colin, I saw you riding the gong, and actually, I think your highest jumps and Mykonos were on the gong over the nxt. And that's absolutely. From. A few of us are on the beach.

[A]

Yeah, but that. Okay, one, the wind picked up when I was on the gong. I don't know, it had.

[B]

You looked awesome.

[A]

Have I not. Have I been riding for only a month or something?

[B]

You looked awesome on the gong. I'm just gonna say it.

[A]

Look, Adrian, I'm experienced enough to tell you that it was windier when I was on the fucking gong.

[B]

I'm just winding you up. Go.

[A]

Also, the nxt is an 8 meter, as opposed to the gong being a 9, but the gong is really good for 600 pounds.

[B]

You're right. It's a good kite for how much money it is. I've picked it up, I've touched it. I can tell a good kite by the feel of the mater. Hey, by the way, I picked up that Oreo Kaido. Whichever one. The one that decathlon. And at the time, the felt cheap. But I also thought it was. It looked okay, but it felt cheap. This looks a lot better for sure.

[A]

So the rest of the industry are all quite worried about gong, obviously, because it could crash the price of kites, which we're sort of excited about, honestly. Or at least I am. Are you excited about it or are you fearful?

[B]

No, I. Dude, if something's gonna turn the industry on its head, I love it.

[A]

It just might bite the hand that feeds me. But if kiteboarding can become more accessible, then I think we've got to support that, haven't we?

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

And yeah, so I feel the online excitement for gong and also on the beach, like, that's that we have loads of blank kites and people just look at them and kind of wonder what they are. They don't talk to us about them. Get a gong out. And everyone's like, oh, okay. And then. And if people come up to me and talk to me about it, I'm like, do you want to go? They're like, yeah. You know, is it for the really, like, wanting to progress really quick, wanting to do new scary shit, wanting to feel comfortable in all sorts of conditions?

[B]

No, it's good enough for Ayrton.

[A]

No, that's the top of the range one. We're talking about the 600 quid one.

[B]

How much is the top of the range one?

[A]

Well, I don't know. I'd have to go on the website. Fine, fine. Gong Kite, Mike Decathlon. Even cheaper now. 500 quid, apparently. Oh, king of water sports. That's a UK shop. Cabrina Switchblade. 20, 23. 489 pounds. Drifter. 23, 369 pounds. What size? 10 meter. 420 pound for a Cabrino Drifter. That's what bloody Lorenzo did the triple loop on. Cabrino Switchblade. 20, 23. 10 meter. Yeah. 600 pounds. What is going on there? That's. That is. So if they're selling it for 600, that means they must be buying it for less than 300.

[B]

The price of the top gong. The 9.9meter. This is the ETO Aramid DP Team Series. It's 980 Euros. Brand new, still cheap as fuck.

[A]

Guess how much this Cabrino Switchblade 10 meter was meant to be.

[B]

How much?

[A]

17, 29 pounds. It's now 600 quid.

[B]

Not a good sign for Cabrina.

[A]

What's going on? Anyway? You wanted to know how much the most expensive going was.

[B]

That's how much.899 meter.

[A]

I want to Know if the boards are any good? That's what I want to know as well. The bar looks fine. The boards, I don't know, they might be real flimsy. I might be just shite. They look okay aesthetically. Not that we judge anything on that. Adrian. Absolutely not. Absolutely.

[B]

We're not judgmental at all.

[A]

Oh, absolutely not. I think GONG is here to stay and it's gonna be a major thing going forward. Do you want to know some scary stats about gong?

[B]

Give me some stats about one stat.

[A]

I know that they spend 1 million euros a year on Google advertising.

[B]

What? Next week the podcast is brought to you by gong.

[A]

No, that's it. They would never. They just spend it all on Google.

[B]

Hey, that's kind of funny. Wow, that's a lot of money. But you know, like, GONG has a good reputation when it comes to falls and stuff like that. So let's see what the texture of the landscape looks like in a couple years time with gong.

[A]

Oh, lovely texture indeed. Indeed. Wind noise, segue to a level ending. So, Adrian, you've. We've painted. We all know the texture of 2023. We sort of got a vague idea of what it might be for 2025. Any final thoughts, mate?

[B]

Bring on the Megalo, bring on Cold Hawaii. Bring on these events. I'm. I'm desperate for high level competition. I don't care too much for these qualifiers, but I want to see these big ones, these three big majors coming up at the end of the year. That's what I'm interested in. Yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be awesome to cover these events. We'll be at cold. We're going to be at all those events actually. So it's going to be super awesome. We'll bring you live coverage as usual, or at least same day coverage. And yeah, bring up, bring on the second half of the year.

[A]

Amen, brother. One thing we're thinking about doing is like Ghost Cam, which is where we set up a camera that's static and then we can overlay two different riders tricks. But the more I've been thinking about it is somewhere in like Tarifa where the takeoff is the same. That's really effective. But for Cold Hawaii and for Megaloop and for King of the Air, they're taking off in different places. So really, how good is Ghost Cam gonna be for that?

[B]

I think Ghost Cam might be quite good if we just got two riders and we got them to go out and follow each other and do the same trick. So okay, guys, we're gonna do. You guys are going to go out, follow each other, do a late back and then you get the guys riding out with each other. That could be quite cool. But obviously ghost cam would be perfect in competition because it could just show, you know, kite angle and height and everything like that. But maybe the first time we do it, we. We sort of maybe set it up a little bit more and make it a bit more contrived. But that would be still kind of sick to do, I think.

[A]

Anyway, that's an idea we're toying with. One week to go until the fourth episode of Road to Programs out. If you haven't watched episode three, two and one yet, they're out now. We just sent the email for episode two, so people have been checking in with that. But be aware that episode three is out and it's good. It's good. Okay, thanks to us as always. We'll see you in the next one. Goodbye.