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[00:00]
A
We got Double G on for a big announcement, and we want to hear all about it.
[00:08]
B
Catastrophic equipment failure.
[00:10]
C
Going for the boogaloo double just to get the landing. Had a couple of strings and it was extremely dangerous.
[00:17]
A
Guys, I sand the trap.
[00:18]
B
And it is gold for Ellie Aldridge
[00:22]
C
and gold for Great Britain. And we're here with Tennis Masters, and we would like to welcome to the podcast number one, 35 plus, the Wimbledon champions of Great Britain.
[00:37]
A
Over 35. I haven't won.
[00:40]
B
What is this?
[00:41]
A
Okay, ready? What's the edge? No, we started.
[00:43]
C
We already started.
[00:44]
A
What is the age part of it? This is not part of it, is
[00:46]
B
it 30 to 34, one hit, people only.
[00:50]
C
You look like Roger a little bit. And I think for this event, that's a great thing. Like Roger on Wimbledon was kind of
[00:56]
A
unbeatable, so the audience have no idea what you two are talking about, by the way.
[01:01]
C
Of course they do. Tennis is way bigger than kiting. Wimbledon. Wimbledon. Wimbledon.
[01:07]
A
Okay, yeah, they know about that. They know about that. Okay, ready? The podcast is going to start here. 3, 2, 1.
[01:19]
C
Wimbledon. Sorry, mate. I'm just proud of you. That's. That's all.
[01:26]
A
Thanks. Thanks. Okay, Adrian, you might have to start this one. Actually. I think I've kind of.
[01:31]
B
I think we already started, mate. We're already here, but we're here with Double G, the legend himself.
[01:35]
C
Hello, boys.
[01:35]
A
Well, we are, and you've got some quite large news that you've announced last week, so we thought we better get you on front and center to hear all about it. So you've signed with Vantage. Are you happy about this?
[01:49]
C
I'm very happy about this. It's very exciting for me. More than just the gear, I think the team is just crazy. Like, I met all the guys. They're all incredibly passionate, and I don't know. I honestly don't know if there's any team like it where everyone's just spending every minute trying to improve gear or being on the water. And it's like, we're in an R D group right now, and they're like, Sunday evening, 11:30, just before midnight, they're sending through stuff that they're testing in, like, in a simulation. And they're like, okay, what about this? What about this? What if we move this picture here? What do we do?
[02:27]
A
This?
[02:27]
C
What do we do? That. So that. Honestly, that stuff makes me super motivated. So that's epic because I think a lot of brands could build a really good kite. But it doesn't take the material because we all know what material Everyone uses it takes the right team. And I think that's, you know, what I'm by far most excited about right now.
[02:48]
B
You know, Hill, it's interesting that you're saying that because that's. That's communication and brand focus that we've heard from other brands in particularly Harlem. They're very much like that. Get the team involved, talk about every decision and really drive. And I think that really comes out of more smaller boutique teams. I think in big corporate teams that that type of behavior gets lost. Right?
[03:08]
C
Yeah. And also I think what I'm. Another part that I'm really excited about is that for the last five years, I've always been on the most expensive kites on the market. And right now I can find so much performance in a kite that's really affordable for so many people. And I think that's, you know, what. What we want essentially just for kite surfing is to make kite surfing grow again. It's not. It's not only about which brand makes money, but I think it's like, let's make kite surfing like a proper thing and like, let's make it easy to get into. And that's. Yeah, let's not make it that expensive to get started or just to get people over the hump. Because I've been teaching in Tarifa for seven years, and in seven years of teaching, there's been maybe three people that after the first lesson said, yeah, this is not for me. Everybody likes it, but everybody needs to get over the hump, you know, And I think if we can lower that, that bump, let's say, then I think we could get more people on board.
[04:12]
A
Feel like the common perception advantage is that they are scientific and data driven. How true is that? Because I guess up until now, kites haven't actually really been that scientific. It's been much more trial and error and feel. Yeah, yeah. With your thoughts, please? Him?
[04:32]
C
Oh, absolutely. I think, you know, whatever they do, everything goes through a simulation. It's. It's completely different to what other brands are doing. And I think that's also a part where it got me excited because it's just completely different. I think you always have to be in touch with the latest tech, in touch with the latest materials, with the latest, you know, and right now, AI and testing things in simulations or using technology in order to improve your product. I think in any kind of business is what's really needed. You always need to be on top of the game. And if you design and produce kites the way they did 15 years ago. You're missing out. So to have a team that's always on top of it and always excited to try something new and to test with new, new technology, I think that's, you know, that's. That's epic.
[05:28]
B
I can't remember now, but it was many years ago. I had Robin Vanderpooter on the podcast, and back then, even back then, he was talking about the early stages of Vantage. He was saying, I want to be a tech company first. At that stage, it wasn't ever going to be a brand, but he was talking about using wind tunnels back then and, you know, using different, as you said, different technologies of design. Is that still the case?
[05:51]
C
Yeah, like, I. Some. So in this R D group and these Vantage groups, sometimes, like, there's a video of a simulation coming through, and the guy filming it, I think it was Casper on this one. He's just like, dude, look at this, look at this. This is insane. And I'm just looking at lines, and I don't understand shit, you know, like, it's so technical and so, like, I was like, oh, yeah, what am I looking at? You know, like, it's a. It's a completely different thing and a different way of looking at it, and I think that's what's going to make it successful because there's so many different eyes on the product and there's so many different opinions, but yet everyone's open to all kinds of feedback. So there's no ego in it. There is no. If I. If I go completely against whatever they say. If they say, okay, this is going to be the kite. And I said, well, for me, it feels like this one. There is no ego hurt. There is no discussion. There's just like, oh, really? Why? Can you tell me? And then I, you know, I say what I like to say, and they. They just take everything in. And I think that's already, like, a really cool part where, you know, otherwise you could find yourself in a discussion with someone that says, no, this has to be. So this is better. We're gonna use this. Like, okay, so why is this better? What can we use? And what about if we do this and this? How we combine this feeling with that feeling or this setup with that setup. And so far, I mean, at least it's been flawless.
[07:23]
A
What are you looking for? What do you want?
[07:26]
C
I want top performance from someone who's never flown it in 15 minutes, 10 minutes. I mean, five minutes. That's what I would want.
[07:37]
A
You want confidence?
[07:39]
C
I want people to be confident. Right from the start and to be able to extract the performance right from the start. Because I think there's a lot of kites on the market right now that have incredible performance, but only for the top 2% of kite surfers in the world. And I don't think that makes sense.
[07:55]
A
Yeah, we saw that in your Heel Speaks series, didn't we?
[07:58]
C
Yeah.
[07:59]
A
Okay, and by top performance, do you mean ability to jump high? Do you mean easy looping? Do you mean versatility?
[08:08]
C
I mean top performance. So the kite that goes the highest or one of the highest, and the kite that has that can have an easy loop, that can have a deep loop, that can recover quick, but still gets you all the feeling. So it's, it's difficult because all these things they counteract with each other. Right? So if I want epic hang time, then in the loop, the kite's gonna slack too much. So you need to find like a beautiful in between from everything and just that performance, that combination. I mean, I think at some point you decide, okay, now I want, I'm just gonna focus on more hang time. Like, I think the NXT is a good example where I think, I feel like they said, okay, we just want a lot of hang time. We want a lot of control, the down loop, we want a lot of control on the flight. But if you loop the kite really low on, let's say 23, 24 meter lines, we don't know if it's going to come back up. You know, like, I feel like. And that's not a negative, it's just a decision. You know, you say, okay, we want hang time over crazy kite angle. Because I think most people would like the hang time. So that's a performance and how easy is it to get that performance? And I think that's where, you know, ideally we get to a point where you launch the kite and you're like, okay, let's go, I got this. And within a couple jumps, you get everything out of it.
[09:32]
B
We've seen these kites perform, right? I mean 20, 25 Lords of Tram. I mean, I saw Nelson Holes going huge on that kite. I mean, that wasn't the, the latest, the fifth gen, but man, he was going massive back then. And I was like, I mean, of course we, we've known about Nelson, you know, but especially coming off that crazy head accident. But man, he was going big on that kite back then. And I guess that kite's come a long way since then.
[09:55]
C
No, for sure. And I think what many people don't realize is that A guy called Ivan that works in the, in the team with Vantage as well. Yvonne Tamborero, he had the surfer record, I think for three years on a Vantage kite. So it's proven to go high. And like in the last couple of weeks when I was riding here in Balniario and in Gran Canaria and wherever we were riding, you could just see that were right there with the biggest jumpers in the, in the game. And some days was, I think I did a. I almost did a 26 meter doobie board off on a 10 meter, which is just insane. Like, I've never done a loop at that height on a 10 meter in my life, any gear that I've ever ridden. So that's just, that just speaks to the potential that's in it and the performance that it already has. Right. Because I'm talking about, you know, we have the team and we could, we can do something epic, but we already have something epic. Right? Right. Because I've never done a loop of any sort at that height. And I think that day there was maybe, I think I would say 10 loops over 20 meters on a 10. And that's, that's quite special, I think, because that 10 is just. It handles like a 9, but then you get the hang time of a 12. You know, like, it's, it's. For me, it's just a beautiful combination because I'm 90 kilos as well. So I think for, for other people, the nine or the eight would be insane. And I think that's a great sweet spot. I think that's a great spot to be.
[11:28]
A
The footage of you on a 12 also is pretty remarkable. Like, that was something that was completely impossible in kiteboarding only a few years ago.
[11:36]
C
It's funny because it feels like yesterday that I think it was Nick saying a couple years back, I've never looped a 12 with ease. And that always stuck with me where I was like, that's crazy. Imagine looping a 12 with ease. And now the 12 that we have is just. The kites are so playful. It's really fun. And today I'm going for a session on. And I got a 14. And I want to see how easy that one is, like how playful that one is to loop. And if we still get the hang time, because that's the cool thing with these decron kites. Like, they do have twist that allows you to have a really playful kite and like a 6 meter doubles. I think this 6 meter will triple for sure if I get the right conditions. I'm Excited to try. Um, so, yeah, it's just. It's a very playful kite. And I think in the beginning that's what people will be happy to. To ride. You know, like just to get the feeling. Just to feel the easy. Like how easy it is to ride the kite and to get started and do your first jumps and just gives you a lot of confidence.
[12:37]
B
He. I'm loving this excitement, but I was just saying to you before we started to record, you know, I was listening to. It's actually almost five years ago to the day, August 16, 2021. You're on the podcast talking about your move to Ocean Rodeo. You were talk there and it's a better fit for your interests. You know, I know it's that you was talking about. It's an unknown brand. They're bringing new materials. You were talking about maybe opening up a new way of kiteboarding, wanting a difference from Yannick and, and knowing the risk versus the reward. I kind of feel like this is history repeating. I mean, that move to Ocean Radio, dude, changed the sport. It changed the way kites were designed. It changed kite designers. You know, kite designers had to work harder because of you. Do you think you can do the same with Vantage?
[13:18]
C
I think it's a little different because I feel like Ocean Rodeo was a brand that almost no one's heard of. And now I know that on the international stage, maybe Vantage is not quite there yet, but in Holland, it's quite massive. Like, I was. I was in Holland, I think, a few weeks back, and I was surprised with how many Vantage kites there were on the water compared to some brands that I won't name, but I think have a lot of hype right now. But I did, I saw like two kites on the water from those brands, you know, where I'm like, what's happening? So I think that what Vantage did different to. To what other brands are doing is that they're setting up an incredibly sound structure to start off with, make sure that on the business end there's enough money being made, enough kites being sold, enough gear being distributed, a proper community built. I think the community that they've built with, with, with their clients is one of the most active, maybe the most active there is. They're on a WhatsApp group just going nuts constantly. Kind of the WhatsApp group, you guys are going as well. And then they looked for someone to bring some credibility to the brand instead of a lot of brands, I think get some big names in and then think, okay, we need to now build the structure. And now we need to start selling kites. And now we need to see how we're going to do the marketing part and how we're going to create the community. So I think this is definitely, let's say, the opposite way of what I think almost every brand is doing or has done. And yeah, I think it's quite smart. So it doesn't feel like I'm taking a risk because the company they've built so far is already incredibly sound and, and doing really good.
[15:13]
A
Speaking of taking risk, you didn't go to rrd, but Andrea did.
[15:18]
C
Yeah.
[15:19]
A
Thoughts and feelings.
[15:20]
C
I don't know. I'm sure he made the right decision for him. It's. I don't know. I didn't, I didn't look into rd, but I think, you know, I'm going to Vantage, which is a Dutch company. And I have to say that I do really like that part that I'm still kind of representing my, my home country as well and just dealing with all this kind of stuff about kites and technology and how to improve the gear and everything. Being in Dutch, even though English is like a second nature to me, it's. It's different, you know, it's. And it's exciting. So I think that's also a part where I got excited about Vantage, and that's probably also what Andrea is feeling with rrd that, you know, he's, he's representing his home and yeah, I think for him it's a good fit hill.
[16:07]
B
Can I ask you about the boards? You know, you're a rider who's very much been interested in the boards, right? I mean, you've always spoke to me about how you like the boards to be. You know, you're a bigger guy. You put a lot of pressure through the boards.
[16:20]
A
You remember how many ocean rodeo boards you used to break?
[16:25]
C
Yeah. At least.
[16:26]
A
Snapping them like crackers.
[16:31]
C
That's true.
[16:32]
B
You really match with that rotor board. Right. And you said to me, you know, if I go somewhere, I want to take this board. But I've seen you riding their board. Is, have you warmed up to that board or is that board really connected with you?
[16:42]
C
Yeah. So right from the start, I wanted to ride the rotor board because I was excited about it. And I tried it in, in Barcarez and it was really good. So then I rode it in flat water spots like Egypt. I had it there. Bagnario is also pretty flat with just a little kicker at the end. And the board just. Yeah, I could just see it in my surfer stats that I was having so much more speed on takeoff and that I was saying, okay, this is, you know, this is giving me that extra explosivity and I really enjoy that board. And this is also in a period where I was looking for a kite and I wanted to try a lot of different gear and I wanted to have a board that was neutral. So this board was doing everything for me that I wanted. And then I was kind of hesitant to try the vantage board because I'm like, I'm so happy on this one, you know, like, let me just, let me just ride this one and vantage. Honestly, I don't understand how they've been so cool about everything because they were like, dude, if you like the board, just keep on writing the board. There's no pressure for. From us to. To to have to ride our board. You just. You should write whatever you feel most comfortable. And, and this. They've been super cool because they created this black kite for me with capital stickers and sponsors for Mykonos as well. And then they came over to Tarifa to fine tune it to exactly what I like. And then after that, they said, look, if this is the best kite for you, use it in Mykonos. If it's not, write anything else, we don't mind. And they already spent money to make like a 7, 8, 9 and a 10 customized for me free of charge, you know, so they've. They've been as. As chilled as you could be. Kind of like a kite mana sponsoring, where they're like, just take whatever is best for you. Which I think is. Is speaks to. Speaks volumes of what they stand for and that they wanted to do it exactly the right way. And then I said, okay, but at least let me try a couple times in the. On the 1:36. And then I found that the board is really quick as well and that I was having the same takeoff speed as I was having on the rotor board. And then I think the. The vantage board, it's the Inertia Gen 4, the carbon version. It's just for me, it's better everywhere. So if you have the rotor board on flat water. Baliario Barcarez, Brazil maybe I haven't been there with the board, but I could imagine because it's flat, the board's epic. But then when it's in Gran Canaria, I found that the vantage board was really nice and all round. It has a little bit more rocker. I think that helps. And it was just if I need to have a board that works for all the spots that I go to all year round. It's just for me, the. The better choice at the moment. But honestly, I think if Roto wanted to, they could change that pretty easily by giving the board maybe a bit rock, a bit more rocker, or just adapting it a little bit. I spoke to Moraine from Rota and he already had a few ideas. He's like, oh, maybe we could do this and this and it will work better in the wave. So, yeah, it's definitely a board that I think is incredibly good. But then for me, I want something that's good, like all round. And at the same time, truth be told, I would like to completely support vantage the full way, like they. They are doing with me, even though they're giving me the freedom to basically do whatever I want. Like, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if now we have mega loop. And I would say, like, ah, you think I could use another kite for this competition? Because I would feel best about it. They'd be like, okay, well, if that's best for you, do it. You know, and that's. I don't know if any brand would allow that.
[20:36]
A
You were in Gran Canaria on the day where Lorenzo hit the ceiling of the earth.
[20:43]
C
Yes.
[20:43]
A
Tell us about the conditions that day.
[20:46]
B
What.
[20:46]
A
What was going on.
[20:47]
C
I'm a little. I'm a little bummed, actually, because that day I was on the water as well, but I was trying a different setup, which I didn't check with the Vantage team before. So that's. That's on me. And it wasn't working the way it was working in Tarifa because I changed something on the line length and the pigtail, and I was like, ah, let me just try. So I was still managing to go like 26, 27 meters. But, yeah, Leo and Lorenzo were especially Lorenzo, I think hit 30, maybe seven times or something. So, yeah, it was a. It was an epic day. I love that. It's just. Every time it's that rough and that raw and that just. It was just the three of us on the water and the boys were on sevens with 18 meter lines going 30 meters.
[21:33]
B
Wow. Whoa. That's crazy.
[21:35]
C
18 meter lines?
[21:36]
A
Yeah.
[21:37]
C
Just ridiculous. Not just going 30 meters high, but also looping the kite below every time. So it's. It was like the best action that I had in months, you know, at least it was epic. I love that. Every time I. I'm in a. I'm in a. I'm in conditions like that. I'm like, this is Actually what I'm built for, you know, this is. I love this. Like, it scares the out of me. It still does, but then it gets me so fired up.
[22:05]
B
You mentioned doing a different setup. Were you trying 18s and getting ready for Mega Loop? Is that what you were riding as well?
[22:12]
C
No, I was like somewhere in between, like a 20 meter line setup. It was because I was shooting the entry video for. Or the announcement. Not the entry, Jesus, the announcement video for vantage. So I wanted to get like the most amount of height with the right kite angle. But obviously changing your line length does something to the shape of your kite and you need to make some adjustments that I didn't make. And yeah, so that, that was, that was on me. But it was still just an epic day. Just insane.
[22:42]
A
Would you say it's the best kiteboarding you've ever seen that day? Those two?
[22:49]
C
I don't know. It was epic. But the best kiteboarding I've ever seen, I don't know. I think it would still be Jamie and Barcarez because it was in a competition and he scored a 10, so. Or Andrea. The year before was epic kiteboarding. And I don't know, maybe some like, barker the year before with the doubles. I don't know. Just a lot of Barez stuff I hear now. And I actually like kickers more than I like flat, so I need to think about that one. But it was epic. Epic freaking kiteboarding from both of the brothers.
[23:25]
B
I even see them busting out some doubles as well. We haven't seen doubles in so long. It was actually kind of funny to see the guys doing double board off late backs, you know?
[23:33]
C
Yeah, it's nice. I did, I did comment I missed doubles. It looks, it looks nice. But you know, who knows, maybe I can bring him back on a. On a seven or on an eight, even on these vantage kites. So my mom asked me the other day, she's like, why, why are you not doing doubles anymore? Like, well, because it's not scoring. And my mom said, yeah, but you're double G. That's quite funny.
[23:58]
A
Don't forget your roots, boy.
[24:00]
C
Yeah, don't forget your roots.
[24:02]
A
If doubles were to come back in competition, how would they have to be? How would it look?
[24:08]
C
I think I want to say that we haven't had the win for proper doubles, but we had, we did have like Cold Hawaii last year. We definitely had the win for it. And I think like that day I was absolutely stacked on a nine. If you take a seven, you go as high for sure you Know, maybe not on every jump, but you can send the kite up much easier. You can edge harder. You for sure go that height. I don't know why we've lost it. I do agree that on a five or on a six, even for some kites, it doesn't look as good. Like, the clip from Lorenzo, now that he posted on Instagram, is really high and really sick. And all I think is like, oh, man, how would it look with eight? Because the kite's quick enough, you know, but you just see that it moves through the wind window so quick that you kind of lose that excitement of the slack. And the moment where you're like, oh, is it going to catch him? Because I think that's what still makes it exciting, you know, I think doubles and S loops were exciting because there were a lot of moments where you were at the tip of your seat where you think, like, oh, I don't know if he's going to manage to get underneath the kite where now there's a single loop and then you're on the tip of your chair, maybe, because you think, could he do eight added rotations instead of. Is he gonna smash to bits and pieces? So it's a different kind of excitement. But I think that's, you know, that's what makes doubles, the and S loops the best, is this extremity factor that's through the roof. But we've had a lot less injuries since we started doing single loops, so maybe that's also a good part. You know, let's see. I think if you do it properly, then. Yeah, if you do it proper, then for sure it's still going to score.
[25:53]
B
Going back to the kites, I mean, dude, number one, the kites look sick, by the way. I love the way they look. I mean, the colors are awesome. Mean, there's something about that. When I. Even when I just looking at the. At the page now, I'm like, bro, that. That teal looks so nice on the black, you know?
[26:07]
C
Yeah, yeah, it's nice.
[26:09]
B
Is there going to be an opportunity for you to do some more shoots with, let's say, Stig and. And promote the. Promote the brand on the. On a bigger scale?
[26:19]
C
Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, with capital, we're still making videos. So I was talking to. Well, let's keep it a secret for now. I was talking to someone this morning about a project somewhere on the other side of the world, and let's see if we can make that happen. That would be really fun. So definitely, definitely gonna do projects because that's like Patagonia last year made me so excited and it was like such a different level of excitement and sort of an adrenaline or a rush as well to create stuff like that in places like that. So, yeah, that's something I definitely want to continue pushing forward with Vantage.
[26:58]
A
Any danger of Vantage using Alula or the light stuff that Brainchild are doing, or are they going to be Dacron a lower price point?
[27:07]
C
Well, I think. Well, we're definitely testing with other stuff, but I think what Vantage doesn't want to lose is how they've grown their company so far, which is basically saying Dekron can keep up with whatever you guys are doing, you know. So I think also for them, I think it's quite smart to hold on to that DNA. But at the same time, like we spoke about before, if we find something that's genuinely better and that improves the performance by a crazy amount, then we would be stupid not to use it. And then we could say we make. We build a performance model that's a little bit more expensive. But we hold on to the Dacron kites as well, that have a 9 out of 10 performance, but the performance models are more expensive. They have a 10 out of 10 performance. Basically answering your question, if there is some better material, then we definitely test it and if it works really well for us, then we'll definitely use it.
[28:04]
B
Kiel, are you going to be involved in the R and D side of the company as well? Is that part of your contract to do the development of the next generations of kites?
[28:13]
C
Yeah, I would hate it to have it any other way. That's what I'm excited about. And I think that's where we could really do something special, where you have the voice of your team writers and you really use them, you know, because in the end of the day, I think it's a team effort. There's things that they can do and they know that I don't, and there's things that is like that the other way around. So if you are able to. To use each other like that fully and use the full potential of that, I think you can do something special and just trust each other, you know, trust each other in the process. So if I'm giving feedback on a kite, I'm just telling you what I feel. And I think if you're a designer, it's quite easy to say that doesn't make any sense and that's not what you're supposed to feel, and then just discard it, you know, and I think that's. That's what happens with. With a lot of writers that give their feedback. And to be honest, like, anyone that gives their feedback, you should listen to, because that's what they feel, you know, So I think that's. That's what. What they do really well is that I just say what I feel, and they're 100%, you know, with it.
[29:30]
A
They've signed you for your epic banter, obviously, but mostly because you're a writer that will be able to put Vantage into the likes of Red Bull, Mega Loop, Red Bull, King of the Air, Big GK events. I assume that's the expectation on you. What is the expectation on them? What do they need to deliver for you?
[29:57]
C
I think, honestly, for me, what they need to continue to deliver is just to stay as passionate as they are and, you know, keep growing the brand the way they have with the same dedication and passion that they. They have had already. Like, that's. That's basically all I'm asking for.
[30:16]
B
I mean, this must be so motivating for you here, because I. I can imagine the last few months has been pretty tough, you know, for you and Zara. I mean, for both of you. Has this been a real sort of light at the end of the tunnel and giving you that? Man, I. I want to go back and spend the five, six hours on the water like you used to and. And put the big sessions in and. And. And start improving you as a rider as well, you know, improving yourself.
[30:39]
C
Well, it's funny because now that I get back on these kites, I've realized that I'm doing tricks that I haven't done for two years, you know, where, I don't know, I was lacking a bit of confidence or the kite had too much power, or I didn't have the connection with the kite that I have now. So those are things that are actually really, really cool and really motivating. Where I was doing a back roll board of tornado that I haven't done since. I think the last time I did it was on an ocean rodeo kite in Oman in, like, light wind. And I did it in Balaria the other day on the 10. I think I initiated seven, and I landed all seven. So that speaks volumes of how confident I am on the kite. And then, you know, like, I'm excited to. To push forward, and that's really fun. And in terms of competition, I'm definitely hoping to get into King of the Air again. I've been selected for Mega Loop, so I'm really excited for that, but that's not something that they expect from me. They don't expect me to compete. They just expect me to do my best and to grow with them and to continue to keep, you know, to keep them honest and yeah, spread the bird, spread the word about what the kites are for, who the kites are for, what they're good at, what they're not good at, where we need to improve and just, I think just be a voice, you know, for, for them, towards the, towards the customer.
[32:08]
A
Hey all, thanks so much for coming on and we're excited by this. Honestly. It's so cool to see you and Andrea changing mid year to smaller brands where you can both have a massive impact. You both shaped and changed the sport in a remarkable way and I think you're both in a position to do that again in these smaller brands. I just think you both found a home there and where some where you can be really encouraged to go and do and pursue whatever you want. So I'm excited and thanks for coming on and sharing with us.
[32:44]
C
Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, I wouldn't say that changing in the middle of the year was a cool thing, but it was, it was something, you know. But yeah, I'm also, I'm really excited about this next chapter. I, I really am. And I think this is going to be really fun. Really, really fun. Representing the Netherlands, B.

Summary6 min read

Kitesurf365: Giel Vlugt on Joining Vantage Kites | The Megapod

Host: Adrian Kerr
Guests: Giel Vlugt (“Double G”), Colin Colin Carroll
Date: August 6, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode of The Megapod on Kitesurf365, Adrian Kerr and Colin Colin Carroll chat with professional kiteboarder Giel Vlugt, recently signed to Vantage Kites, for an in-depth discussion about his career move, the ethos and R&D focus of Vantage, equipment performance, future projects, and broader trends in kiteboarding. The conversation delivers both technical details and personal insights, blending humor and reflection with insider perspective on the kiteboarding scene.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Giel Vlugt Announces Move to Vantage Kites

[01:35 – 04:10]

Giel (“Double G”) shares his excitement about joining Vantage Kites.
Emphasizes Vantage’s unique team dynamic: “More than just the gear, I think the team is just crazy… everyone’s just spending every minute trying to improve gear or being on the water.” (Giel, 01:48)
Notes the brand’s relentless innovation culture, with late-night R&D group discussions and real-time simulation sharing.

2. The Vantage Approach: Tech & Teamwork

[04:11 – 07:21]

Adrian describes Vantage as “scientific and data driven,” and Giel agrees: “Everything goes through a simulation… It’s completely different to what other brands are doing. AI, testing things in simulations, using technology to improve…” (Giel, 04:32)
Decision-making is collaborative: team riders’ feedback is heard, no egos involved.

3. Accessibility and Affordability in Kiting

[03:08 – 04:11]

Giel values Vantage’s commitment to making high-performance kites more affordable, hoping to “lower the hump” so more beginners can enter the sport.

4. R&D and Rider Input

[05:51 – 07:21]

Vantage’s R&D group shares highly technical wind tunnel simulations.
Giel appreciates the lack of ego in decision-making: “If I go completely against whatever they say… there’s no ego hurt. There is no discussion. They just take everything in.” (Giel, 06:30)
Rider feedback is actively sought and respected, contrasting with more hierarchical, traditional brands.

5. Defining Performance for All Riders

[07:22 – 09:32]

Giel’s ideal: “Top performance from someone who’s never flown it… in 5, 10, or 15 minutes.” (Giel, 07:25)
Wants kites that are forgiving and confidence-inspiring for all, not just elite riders.
Explains the intricate balance of performance factors: hang time, loop ability, playfulness, and accessibility.

Notable Quote

“There’s a lot of kites on the market that have incredible performance, but only for the top 2%. I don’t think that makes sense.”
— Giel Vlugt, [07:38]

6. Vantage’s Track Record in High Performance

[09:32 – 11:36]

Discusses historical big air feats by Vantage kites; recounts his own 26m board off on a 10m Vantage kite.
Details the lively performance of the new Vantage kites—even large sizes can now be safely looped: “The 10 handles like a 9, but then you get the hang time of a 12.” (Giel, 10:30)
Reminisces about kiting progression: what seemed impossible a few years ago has become routine.

7. Comparing Industry Moves and Brand Structures

[12:36 – 15:12]

Reflects on his previous landmark move to Ocean Rodeo (2021), which pushed the entire sport’s materials tech.
Vantage’s approach is contrasted with typical industry patterns: “They built community and structure first, then brought on credibility, rather than the other way round.” (Giel, 14:03)
Vantage “already incredibly sound,” so his move isn’t a risk.

8. National Affiliation and the Appeal of ‘Home Brands’

[15:18 – 16:07]

Adrian: “You didn’t go to RRD, but Andrea did. Thoughts?”
Giel: Proud to join a Dutch company: “I do really like that part… representing my home country as well…” (16:03)
Suggests similar motivations for Andrea’s move to RRD (Italian).

9. Board Tech: From Breaking Boards to Finding ‘The One’

[16:07 – 20:35]

Giel’s notorious for snapping boards due to his size/power (“Snapping them like crackers,” Adrian, 16:24).
Detailed evaluation of the Vantage Inertia Gen 4: a versatile carbon board he now prefers over his Rotor standby—especially across different conditions.
Praises Vantage’s “chill” approach: “They were like, dude, if you like the [other] board, just keep on riding the board. There’s no pressure from us…” (Giel, 17:08)
Notes he’d like to “completely support Vantage… like they are doing with me.”

10. Session Stories and Big Air Showdowns

[20:35 – 24:01]

Recounts epic Gran Canaria sessions with Leo and Lorenzo—looping at 30m on 7m kites and short (18m) lines.
Giel tinkers with setups (not always checking with R&D): “That’s on me.”
“Every time I’m in conditions like that, I’m like, ‘this is actually what I’m built for… it scares the sh*t out of me. It still does, but it gets me so fired up.’” (Giel, 21:36)

11. Bringing Back Doubles and The Progression of Competition

[24:01 – 25:53]

Discussion on the return of double loops.
Giel’s mother: “Why are you not doing doubles anymore? You’re Double G.” (23:49)
Safety note: single loops have decreased injuries, but double/S-loops offer unique excitement.

12. Brand Direction: Materials, R&D, and Content

[26:57 – 29:29]

Vantage will keep developing with Dacron for affordability and reliability, but will also test new materials (e.g., Aluula) for high-performance lines if justified.
Giel will be closely involved in R&D: “I would hate it to have it any other way. That’s what I’m excited about.” (Giel, 28:13)
Capital (Giel’s media project) and Vantage committed to producing creative, global promotional content.

13. Expectations and Motivation

[29:29 – 30:38]

Obligations: “They just expect me to do my best and to grow with them…” (Giel, 31:00)
Vantage wants him to bring the brand to big events; he expects the company to “stay as passionate as they are.”
Comments on personal rejuvenation: renewed confidence, rediscovered tricks, and excitement for Red Bull King of the Air and Mega Loop.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

On Vantage’s R&D culture:
“Sunday evening, 11:30… they’re sending through stuff they’re testing in simulation. And they’re like, ‘OK, what about this?’ And I’m like, what am I looking at? It’s so technical.”
— Giel Vlugt, [02:21, 05:51]
On Affordability & Community:
“Let’s not make it that expensive to get started… If we can lower that bump, I think we could get more people on board.”
— Giel Vlugt, [03:08]
On Board Choice:
“If you like the [other] board, just keep on riding the board. There’s no pressure from us… That speaks volumes for what they stand for.”
— Giel Vlugt, [17:08]
On Big Air Evolution:
“The 10 is just… handles like a 9 but you get the hang time of a 12. It’s a beautiful combination.”
— Giel Vlugt, [10:30]
On the R&D Process:
“If I’m giving feedback on a kite, I’m just telling you what I feel… anyone that gives their feedback, you should listen to, because that’s what they feel.”
— Giel Vlugt, [28:13]
Humor & Family:
“My mom asked me, ‘Why are you not doing doubles anymore? You’re Double G.’”
— Giel Vlugt, [23:49]

Important Timestamps

01:35: Giel introduced, Vantage announcement
04:32: Adrian: “How scientific is Vantage?”
07:25: Giel defines ideal performance for kites
09:32: Discussing big air sessions and high kite performance
13:18: Comparing the move to Vantage with his earlier Ocean Rodeo switch
16:07: National pride in joining Dutch brand
16:42: Board choices and the Vantage Inertia Gen 4
20:35: Epic Gran Canaria session recounted
23:33: Discussion about bringing doubles back
26:57: Materials and tech direction for Vantage
28:13: Giel’s involvement in Vantage R&D
29:56: Brand expectations – both ways
30:38: Adrian on the impact of mid-season team changes

Tone & Closing

The tone throughout the episode is upbeat, informal, and passionate—with frequent laughter (and tangents) among the hosts and their guest. Giel’s enthusiasm for both the technical and cultural dimensions of his new partnership is clear, as is the hosts’ respect for his influence on the sport.

Final words from Giel:
“…I’m really excited about this next chapter. I really am. And I think this is going to be really fun. Really, really fun. Representing the Netherlands, B.” ([32:43])

This summary covers all technical, personal, and industry-shaping content from the conversation, presenting a concise yet comprehensive overview for any listener—whether you ride kites or just want to know where the sport is headed next.

Loading summary

Transcript89 lines

[00:00]
A
We got Double G on for a big announcement, and we want to hear all about it.
[00:08]
B
Catastrophic equipment failure.
[00:10]
C
Going for the boogaloo double just to get the landing. Had a couple of strings and it was extremely dangerous.
[00:17]
A
Guys, I sand the trap.
[00:18]
B
And it is gold for Ellie Aldridge
[00:22]
C
and gold for Great Britain. And we're here with Tennis Masters, and we would like to welcome to the podcast number one, 35 plus, the Wimbledon champions of Great Britain.
[00:37]
A
Over 35. I haven't won.
[00:40]
B
What is this?
[00:41]
A
Okay, ready? What's the edge? No, we started.
[00:43]
C
We already started.
[00:44]
A
What is the age part of it? This is not part of it, is
[00:46]
B
it 30 to 34, one hit, people only.
[00:50]
C
You look like Roger a little bit. And I think for this event, that's a great thing. Like Roger on Wimbledon was kind of
[00:56]
A
unbeatable, so the audience have no idea what you two are talking about, by the way.
[01:01]
C
Of course they do. Tennis is way bigger than kiting. Wimbledon. Wimbledon. Wimbledon.
[01:07]
A
Okay, yeah, they know about that. They know about that. Okay, ready? The podcast is going to start here. 3, 2, 1.
[01:19]
C
Wimbledon. Sorry, mate. I'm just proud of you. That's. That's all.
[01:26]
A
Thanks. Thanks. Okay, Adrian, you might have to start this one. Actually. I think I've kind of.
[01:31]
B
I think we already started, mate. We're already here, but we're here with Double G, the legend himself.
[01:35]
C
Hello, boys.
[01:35]
A
Well, we are, and you've got some quite large news that you've announced last week, so we thought we better get you on front and center to hear all about it. So you've signed with Vantage. Are you happy about this?
[01:49]
C
I'm very happy about this. It's very exciting for me. More than just the gear, I think the team is just crazy. Like, I met all the guys. They're all incredibly passionate, and I don't know. I honestly don't know if there's any team like it where everyone's just spending every minute trying to improve gear or being on the water. And it's like, we're in an R D group right now, and they're like, Sunday evening, 11:30, just before midnight, they're sending through stuff that they're testing in, like, in a simulation. And they're like, okay, what about this? What about this? What if we move this picture here? What do we do?
[02:27]
A
This?
[02:27]
C
What do we do? That. So that. Honestly, that stuff makes me super motivated. So that's epic because I think a lot of brands could build a really good kite. But it doesn't take the material because we all know what material Everyone uses it takes the right team. And I think that's, you know, what I'm by far most excited about right now.
[02:48]
B
You know, Hill, it's interesting that you're saying that because that's. That's communication and brand focus that we've heard from other brands in particularly Harlem. They're very much like that. Get the team involved, talk about every decision and really drive. And I think that really comes out of more smaller boutique teams. I think in big corporate teams that that type of behavior gets lost. Right?
[03:08]
C
Yeah. And also I think what I'm. Another part that I'm really excited about is that for the last five years, I've always been on the most expensive kites on the market. And right now I can find so much performance in a kite that's really affordable for so many people. And I think that's, you know, what. What we want essentially just for kite surfing is to make kite surfing grow again. It's not. It's not only about which brand makes money, but I think it's like, let's make kite surfing like a proper thing and like, let's make it easy to get into. And that's. Yeah, let's not make it that expensive to get started or just to get people over the hump. Because I've been teaching in Tarifa for seven years, and in seven years of teaching, there's been maybe three people that after the first lesson said, yeah, this is not for me. Everybody likes it, but everybody needs to get over the hump, you know, And I think if we can lower that, that bump, let's say, then I think we could get more people on board.
[04:12]
A
Feel like the common perception advantage is that they are scientific and data driven. How true is that? Because I guess up until now, kites haven't actually really been that scientific. It's been much more trial and error and feel. Yeah, yeah. With your thoughts, please? Him?
[04:32]
C
Oh, absolutely. I think, you know, whatever they do, everything goes through a simulation. It's. It's completely different to what other brands are doing. And I think that's also a part where it got me excited because it's just completely different. I think you always have to be in touch with the latest tech, in touch with the latest materials, with the latest, you know, and right now, AI and testing things in simulations or using technology in order to improve your product. I think in any kind of business is what's really needed. You always need to be on top of the game. And if you design and produce kites the way they did 15 years ago. You're missing out. So to have a team that's always on top of it and always excited to try something new and to test with new, new technology, I think that's, you know, that's. That's epic.
[05:28]
B
I can't remember now, but it was many years ago. I had Robin Vanderpooter on the podcast, and back then, even back then, he was talking about the early stages of Vantage. He was saying, I want to be a tech company first. At that stage, it wasn't ever going to be a brand, but he was talking about using wind tunnels back then and, you know, using different, as you said, different technologies of design. Is that still the case?
[05:51]
C
Yeah, like, I. Some. So in this R D group and these Vantage groups, sometimes, like, there's a video of a simulation coming through, and the guy filming it, I think it was Casper on this one. He's just like, dude, look at this, look at this. This is insane. And I'm just looking at lines, and I don't understand shit, you know, like, it's so technical and so, like, I was like, oh, yeah, what am I looking at? You know, like, it's a. It's a completely different thing and a different way of looking at it, and I think that's what's going to make it successful because there's so many different eyes on the product and there's so many different opinions, but yet everyone's open to all kinds of feedback. So there's no ego in it. There is no. If I. If I go completely against whatever they say. If they say, okay, this is going to be the kite. And I said, well, for me, it feels like this one. There is no ego hurt. There is no discussion. There's just like, oh, really? Why? Can you tell me? And then I, you know, I say what I like to say, and they. They just take everything in. And I think that's already, like, a really cool part where, you know, otherwise you could find yourself in a discussion with someone that says, no, this has to be. So this is better. We're gonna use this. Like, okay, so why is this better? What can we use? And what about if we do this and this? How we combine this feeling with that feeling or this setup with that setup. And so far, I mean, at least it's been flawless.
[07:23]
A
What are you looking for? What do you want?
[07:26]
C
I want top performance from someone who's never flown it in 15 minutes, 10 minutes. I mean, five minutes. That's what I would want.
[07:37]
A
You want confidence?
[07:39]
C
I want people to be confident. Right from the start and to be able to extract the performance right from the start. Because I think there's a lot of kites on the market right now that have incredible performance, but only for the top 2% of kite surfers in the world. And I don't think that makes sense.
[07:55]
A
Yeah, we saw that in your Heel Speaks series, didn't we?
[07:58]
C
Yeah.
[07:59]
A
Okay, and by top performance, do you mean ability to jump high? Do you mean easy looping? Do you mean versatility?
[08:08]
C
I mean top performance. So the kite that goes the highest or one of the highest, and the kite that has that can have an easy loop, that can have a deep loop, that can recover quick, but still gets you all the feeling. So it's, it's difficult because all these things they counteract with each other. Right? So if I want epic hang time, then in the loop, the kite's gonna slack too much. So you need to find like a beautiful in between from everything and just that performance, that combination. I mean, I think at some point you decide, okay, now I want, I'm just gonna focus on more hang time. Like, I think the NXT is a good example where I think, I feel like they said, okay, we just want a lot of hang time. We want a lot of control, the down loop, we want a lot of control on the flight. But if you loop the kite really low on, let's say 23, 24 meter lines, we don't know if it's going to come back up. You know, like, I feel like. And that's not a negative, it's just a decision. You know, you say, okay, we want hang time over crazy kite angle. Because I think most people would like the hang time. So that's a performance and how easy is it to get that performance? And I think that's where, you know, ideally we get to a point where you launch the kite and you're like, okay, let's go, I got this. And within a couple jumps, you get everything out of it.
[09:32]
B
We've seen these kites perform, right? I mean 20, 25 Lords of Tram. I mean, I saw Nelson Holes going huge on that kite. I mean, that wasn't the, the latest, the fifth gen, but man, he was going massive back then. And I was like, I mean, of course we, we've known about Nelson, you know, but especially coming off that crazy head accident. But man, he was going big on that kite back then. And I guess that kite's come a long way since then.
[09:55]
C
No, for sure. And I think what many people don't realize is that A guy called Ivan that works in the, in the team with Vantage as well. Yvonne Tamborero, he had the surfer record, I think for three years on a Vantage kite. So it's proven to go high. And like in the last couple of weeks when I was riding here in Balniario and in Gran Canaria and wherever we were riding, you could just see that were right there with the biggest jumpers in the, in the game. And some days was, I think I did a. I almost did a 26 meter doobie board off on a 10 meter, which is just insane. Like, I've never done a loop at that height on a 10 meter in my life, any gear that I've ever ridden. So that's just, that just speaks to the potential that's in it and the performance that it already has. Right. Because I'm talking about, you know, we have the team and we could, we can do something epic, but we already have something epic. Right? Right. Because I've never done a loop of any sort at that height. And I think that day there was maybe, I think I would say 10 loops over 20 meters on a 10. And that's, that's quite special, I think, because that 10 is just. It handles like a 9, but then you get the hang time of a 12. You know, like, it's, it's. For me, it's just a beautiful combination because I'm 90 kilos as well. So I think for, for other people, the nine or the eight would be insane. And I think that's a great sweet spot. I think that's a great spot to be.
[11:28]
A
The footage of you on a 12 also is pretty remarkable. Like, that was something that was completely impossible in kiteboarding only a few years ago.
[11:36]
C
It's funny because it feels like yesterday that I think it was Nick saying a couple years back, I've never looped a 12 with ease. And that always stuck with me where I was like, that's crazy. Imagine looping a 12 with ease. And now the 12 that we have is just. The kites are so playful. It's really fun. And today I'm going for a session on. And I got a 14. And I want to see how easy that one is, like how playful that one is to loop. And if we still get the hang time, because that's the cool thing with these decron kites. Like, they do have twist that allows you to have a really playful kite and like a 6 meter doubles. I think this 6 meter will triple for sure if I get the right conditions. I'm Excited to try. Um, so, yeah, it's just. It's a very playful kite. And I think in the beginning that's what people will be happy to. To ride. You know, like just to get the feeling. Just to feel the easy. Like how easy it is to ride the kite and to get started and do your first jumps and just gives you a lot of confidence.
[12:37]
B
He. I'm loving this excitement, but I was just saying to you before we started to record, you know, I was listening to. It's actually almost five years ago to the day, August 16, 2021. You're on the podcast talking about your move to Ocean Rodeo. You were talk there and it's a better fit for your interests. You know, I know it's that you was talking about. It's an unknown brand. They're bringing new materials. You were talking about maybe opening up a new way of kiteboarding, wanting a difference from Yannick and, and knowing the risk versus the reward. I kind of feel like this is history repeating. I mean, that move to Ocean Radio, dude, changed the sport. It changed the way kites were designed. It changed kite designers. You know, kite designers had to work harder because of you. Do you think you can do the same with Vantage?
[13:18]
C
I think it's a little different because I feel like Ocean Rodeo was a brand that almost no one's heard of. And now I know that on the international stage, maybe Vantage is not quite there yet, but in Holland, it's quite massive. Like, I was. I was in Holland, I think, a few weeks back, and I was surprised with how many Vantage kites there were on the water compared to some brands that I won't name, but I think have a lot of hype right now. But I did, I saw like two kites on the water from those brands, you know, where I'm like, what's happening? So I think that what Vantage did different to. To what other brands are doing is that they're setting up an incredibly sound structure to start off with, make sure that on the business end there's enough money being made, enough kites being sold, enough gear being distributed, a proper community built. I think the community that they've built with, with, with their clients is one of the most active, maybe the most active there is. They're on a WhatsApp group just going nuts constantly. Kind of the WhatsApp group, you guys are going as well. And then they looked for someone to bring some credibility to the brand instead of a lot of brands, I think get some big names in and then think, okay, we need to now build the structure. And now we need to start selling kites. And now we need to see how we're going to do the marketing part and how we're going to create the community. So I think this is definitely, let's say, the opposite way of what I think almost every brand is doing or has done. And yeah, I think it's quite smart. So it doesn't feel like I'm taking a risk because the company they've built so far is already incredibly sound and, and doing really good.
[15:13]
A
Speaking of taking risk, you didn't go to rrd, but Andrea did.
[15:18]
C
Yeah.
[15:19]
A
Thoughts and feelings.
[15:20]
C
I don't know. I'm sure he made the right decision for him. It's. I don't know. I didn't, I didn't look into rd, but I think, you know, I'm going to Vantage, which is a Dutch company. And I have to say that I do really like that part that I'm still kind of representing my, my home country as well and just dealing with all this kind of stuff about kites and technology and how to improve the gear and everything. Being in Dutch, even though English is like a second nature to me, it's. It's different, you know, it's. And it's exciting. So I think that's also a part where I got excited about Vantage, and that's probably also what Andrea is feeling with rrd that, you know, he's, he's representing his home and yeah, I think for him it's a good fit hill.
[16:07]
B
Can I ask you about the boards? You know, you're a rider who's very much been interested in the boards, right? I mean, you've always spoke to me about how you like the boards to be. You know, you're a bigger guy. You put a lot of pressure through the boards.
[16:20]
A
You remember how many ocean rodeo boards you used to break?
[16:25]
C
Yeah. At least.
[16:26]
A
Snapping them like crackers.
[16:31]
C
That's true.
[16:32]
B
You really match with that rotor board. Right. And you said to me, you know, if I go somewhere, I want to take this board. But I've seen you riding their board. Is, have you warmed up to that board or is that board really connected with you?
[16:42]
C
Yeah. So right from the start, I wanted to ride the rotor board because I was excited about it. And I tried it in, in Barcarez and it was really good. So then I rode it in flat water spots like Egypt. I had it there. Bagnario is also pretty flat with just a little kicker at the end. And the board just. Yeah, I could just see it in my surfer stats that I was having so much more speed on takeoff and that I was saying, okay, this is, you know, this is giving me that extra explosivity and I really enjoy that board. And this is also in a period where I was looking for a kite and I wanted to try a lot of different gear and I wanted to have a board that was neutral. So this board was doing everything for me that I wanted. And then I was kind of hesitant to try the vantage board because I'm like, I'm so happy on this one, you know, like, let me just, let me just ride this one and vantage. Honestly, I don't understand how they've been so cool about everything because they were like, dude, if you like the board, just keep on writing the board. There's no pressure for. From us to. To to have to ride our board. You just. You should write whatever you feel most comfortable. And, and this. They've been super cool because they created this black kite for me with capital stickers and sponsors for Mykonos as well. And then they came over to Tarifa to fine tune it to exactly what I like. And then after that, they said, look, if this is the best kite for you, use it in Mykonos. If it's not, write anything else, we don't mind. And they already spent money to make like a 7, 8, 9 and a 10 customized for me free of charge, you know, so they've. They've been as. As chilled as you could be. Kind of like a kite mana sponsoring, where they're like, just take whatever is best for you. Which I think is. Is speaks to. Speaks volumes of what they stand for and that they wanted to do it exactly the right way. And then I said, okay, but at least let me try a couple times in the. On the 1:36. And then I found that the board is really quick as well and that I was having the same takeoff speed as I was having on the rotor board. And then I think the. The vantage board, it's the Inertia Gen 4, the carbon version. It's just for me, it's better everywhere. So if you have the rotor board on flat water. Baliario Barcarez, Brazil maybe I haven't been there with the board, but I could imagine because it's flat, the board's epic. But then when it's in Gran Canaria, I found that the vantage board was really nice and all round. It has a little bit more rocker. I think that helps. And it was just if I need to have a board that works for all the spots that I go to all year round. It's just for me, the. The better choice at the moment. But honestly, I think if Roto wanted to, they could change that pretty easily by giving the board maybe a bit rock, a bit more rocker, or just adapting it a little bit. I spoke to Moraine from Rota and he already had a few ideas. He's like, oh, maybe we could do this and this and it will work better in the wave. So, yeah, it's definitely a board that I think is incredibly good. But then for me, I want something that's good, like all round. And at the same time, truth be told, I would like to completely support vantage the full way, like they. They are doing with me, even though they're giving me the freedom to basically do whatever I want. Like, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if now we have mega loop. And I would say, like, ah, you think I could use another kite for this competition? Because I would feel best about it. They'd be like, okay, well, if that's best for you, do it. You know, and that's. I don't know if any brand would allow that.
[20:36]
A
You were in Gran Canaria on the day where Lorenzo hit the ceiling of the earth.
[20:43]
C
Yes.
[20:43]
A
Tell us about the conditions that day.
[20:46]
B
What.
[20:46]
A
What was going on.
[20:47]
C
I'm a little. I'm a little bummed, actually, because that day I was on the water as well, but I was trying a different setup, which I didn't check with the Vantage team before. So that's. That's on me. And it wasn't working the way it was working in Tarifa because I changed something on the line length and the pigtail, and I was like, ah, let me just try. So I was still managing to go like 26, 27 meters. But, yeah, Leo and Lorenzo were especially Lorenzo, I think hit 30, maybe seven times or something. So, yeah, it was a. It was an epic day. I love that. It's just. Every time it's that rough and that raw and that just. It was just the three of us on the water and the boys were on sevens with 18 meter lines going 30 meters.
[21:33]
B
Wow. Whoa. That's crazy.
[21:35]
C
18 meter lines?
[21:36]
A
Yeah.
[21:37]
C
Just ridiculous. Not just going 30 meters high, but also looping the kite below every time. So it's. It was like the best action that I had in months, you know, at least it was epic. I love that. Every time I. I'm in a. I'm in a. I'm in conditions like that. I'm like, this is Actually what I'm built for, you know, this is. I love this. Like, it scares the out of me. It still does, but then it gets me so fired up.
[22:05]
B
You mentioned doing a different setup. Were you trying 18s and getting ready for Mega Loop? Is that what you were riding as well?
[22:12]
C
No, I was like somewhere in between, like a 20 meter line setup. It was because I was shooting the entry video for. Or the announcement. Not the entry, Jesus, the announcement video for vantage. So I wanted to get like the most amount of height with the right kite angle. But obviously changing your line length does something to the shape of your kite and you need to make some adjustments that I didn't make. And yeah, so that, that was, that was on me. But it was still just an epic day. Just insane.
[22:42]
A
Would you say it's the best kiteboarding you've ever seen that day? Those two?
[22:49]
C
I don't know. It was epic. But the best kiteboarding I've ever seen, I don't know. I think it would still be Jamie and Barcarez because it was in a competition and he scored a 10, so. Or Andrea. The year before was epic kiteboarding. And I don't know, maybe some like, barker the year before with the doubles. I don't know. Just a lot of Barez stuff I hear now. And I actually like kickers more than I like flat, so I need to think about that one. But it was epic. Epic freaking kiteboarding from both of the brothers.
[23:25]
B
I even see them busting out some doubles as well. We haven't seen doubles in so long. It was actually kind of funny to see the guys doing double board off late backs, you know?
[23:33]
C
Yeah, it's nice. I did, I did comment I missed doubles. It looks, it looks nice. But you know, who knows, maybe I can bring him back on a. On a seven or on an eight, even on these vantage kites. So my mom asked me the other day, she's like, why, why are you not doing doubles anymore? Like, well, because it's not scoring. And my mom said, yeah, but you're double G. That's quite funny.
[23:58]
A
Don't forget your roots, boy.
[24:00]
C
Yeah, don't forget your roots.
[24:02]
A
If doubles were to come back in competition, how would they have to be? How would it look?
[24:08]
C
I think I want to say that we haven't had the win for proper doubles, but we had, we did have like Cold Hawaii last year. We definitely had the win for it. And I think like that day I was absolutely stacked on a nine. If you take a seven, you go as high for sure you Know, maybe not on every jump, but you can send the kite up much easier. You can edge harder. You for sure go that height. I don't know why we've lost it. I do agree that on a five or on a six, even for some kites, it doesn't look as good. Like, the clip from Lorenzo, now that he posted on Instagram, is really high and really sick. And all I think is like, oh, man, how would it look with eight? Because the kite's quick enough, you know, but you just see that it moves through the wind window so quick that you kind of lose that excitement of the slack. And the moment where you're like, oh, is it going to catch him? Because I think that's what still makes it exciting, you know, I think doubles and S loops were exciting because there were a lot of moments where you were at the tip of your seat where you think, like, oh, I don't know if he's going to manage to get underneath the kite where now there's a single loop and then you're on the tip of your chair, maybe, because you think, could he do eight added rotations instead of. Is he gonna smash to bits and pieces? So it's a different kind of excitement. But I think that's, you know, that's what makes doubles, the and S loops the best, is this extremity factor that's through the roof. But we've had a lot less injuries since we started doing single loops, so maybe that's also a good part. You know, let's see. I think if you do it properly, then. Yeah, if you do it proper, then for sure it's still going to score.
[25:53]
B
Going back to the kites, I mean, dude, number one, the kites look sick, by the way. I love the way they look. I mean, the colors are awesome. Mean, there's something about that. When I. Even when I just looking at the. At the page now, I'm like, bro, that. That teal looks so nice on the black, you know?
[26:07]
C
Yeah, yeah, it's nice.
[26:09]
B
Is there going to be an opportunity for you to do some more shoots with, let's say, Stig and. And promote the. Promote the brand on the. On a bigger scale?
[26:19]
C
Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, with capital, we're still making videos. So I was talking to. Well, let's keep it a secret for now. I was talking to someone this morning about a project somewhere on the other side of the world, and let's see if we can make that happen. That would be really fun. So definitely, definitely gonna do projects because that's like Patagonia last year made me so excited and it was like such a different level of excitement and sort of an adrenaline or a rush as well to create stuff like that in places like that. So, yeah, that's something I definitely want to continue pushing forward with Vantage.
[26:58]
A
Any danger of Vantage using Alula or the light stuff that Brainchild are doing, or are they going to be Dacron a lower price point?
[27:07]
C
Well, I think. Well, we're definitely testing with other stuff, but I think what Vantage doesn't want to lose is how they've grown their company so far, which is basically saying Dekron can keep up with whatever you guys are doing, you know. So I think also for them, I think it's quite smart to hold on to that DNA. But at the same time, like we spoke about before, if we find something that's genuinely better and that improves the performance by a crazy amount, then we would be stupid not to use it. And then we could say we make. We build a performance model that's a little bit more expensive. But we hold on to the Dacron kites as well, that have a 9 out of 10 performance, but the performance models are more expensive. They have a 10 out of 10 performance. Basically answering your question, if there is some better material, then we definitely test it and if it works really well for us, then we'll definitely use it.
[28:04]
B
Kiel, are you going to be involved in the R and D side of the company as well? Is that part of your contract to do the development of the next generations of kites?
[28:13]
C
Yeah, I would hate it to have it any other way. That's what I'm excited about. And I think that's where we could really do something special, where you have the voice of your team writers and you really use them, you know, because in the end of the day, I think it's a team effort. There's things that they can do and they know that I don't, and there's things that is like that the other way around. So if you are able to. To use each other like that fully and use the full potential of that, I think you can do something special and just trust each other, you know, trust each other in the process. So if I'm giving feedback on a kite, I'm just telling you what I feel. And I think if you're a designer, it's quite easy to say that doesn't make any sense and that's not what you're supposed to feel, and then just discard it, you know, and I think that's. That's what happens with. With a lot of writers that give their feedback. And to be honest, like, anyone that gives their feedback, you should listen to, because that's what they feel, you know, So I think that's. That's what. What they do really well is that I just say what I feel, and they're 100%, you know, with it.
[29:30]
A
They've signed you for your epic banter, obviously, but mostly because you're a writer that will be able to put Vantage into the likes of Red Bull, Mega Loop, Red Bull, King of the Air, Big GK events. I assume that's the expectation on you. What is the expectation on them? What do they need to deliver for you?
[29:57]
C
I think, honestly, for me, what they need to continue to deliver is just to stay as passionate as they are and, you know, keep growing the brand the way they have with the same dedication and passion that they. They have had already. Like, that's. That's basically all I'm asking for.
[30:16]
B
I mean, this must be so motivating for you here, because I. I can imagine the last few months has been pretty tough, you know, for you and Zara. I mean, for both of you. Has this been a real sort of light at the end of the tunnel and giving you that? Man, I. I want to go back and spend the five, six hours on the water like you used to and. And put the big sessions in and. And. And start improving you as a rider as well, you know, improving yourself.
[30:39]
C
Well, it's funny because now that I get back on these kites, I've realized that I'm doing tricks that I haven't done for two years, you know, where, I don't know, I was lacking a bit of confidence or the kite had too much power, or I didn't have the connection with the kite that I have now. So those are things that are actually really, really cool and really motivating. Where I was doing a back roll board of tornado that I haven't done since. I think the last time I did it was on an ocean rodeo kite in Oman in, like, light wind. And I did it in Balaria the other day on the 10. I think I initiated seven, and I landed all seven. So that speaks volumes of how confident I am on the kite. And then, you know, like, I'm excited to. To push forward, and that's really fun. And in terms of competition, I'm definitely hoping to get into King of the Air again. I've been selected for Mega Loop, so I'm really excited for that, but that's not something that they expect from me. They don't expect me to compete. They just expect me to do my best and to grow with them and to continue to keep, you know, to keep them honest and yeah, spread the bird, spread the word about what the kites are for, who the kites are for, what they're good at, what they're not good at, where we need to improve and just, I think just be a voice, you know, for, for them, towards the, towards the customer.
[32:08]
A
Hey all, thanks so much for coming on and we're excited by this. Honestly. It's so cool to see you and Andrea changing mid year to smaller brands where you can both have a massive impact. You both shaped and changed the sport in a remarkable way and I think you're both in a position to do that again in these smaller brands. I just think you both found a home there and where some where you can be really encouraged to go and do and pursue whatever you want. So I'm excited and thanks for coming on and sharing with us.
[32:44]
C
Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, I wouldn't say that changing in the middle of the year was a cool thing, but it was, it was something, you know. But yeah, I'm also, I'm really excited about this next chapter. I, I really am. And I think this is going to be really fun. Really, really fun. Representing the Netherlands, B.