Land Of The Rising Sun | The Megapod

Summary

Kitesurf365: Land Of The Rising Sun | The Megapod (Feb 5, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this special MEGAPOD episode, Adrian Kerr is joined by Ben, Pete (Steezy Pete), and Jason Vanderspade, bringing listeners an on-location experience from the Japanese island of Ishigaki. Between tales of travel mishaps, the oddities of Japanese shopping, and behind-the-scenes banter about kiteboarding gear and competitions, the crew dives deep into current themes in the kiteboarding world. The episode weaves serious industry observations with trademark irreverence, setting the tone for the next “Road to Pro” video series and touching on evolving formats, gear tech, brand economics, and the wildness of top-tier big air competitions.

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Main Themes & Discussions

1. Arrival in Japan & Team Dynamics

• Location: Ishigaki, a remote island near Taiwan, site for filming the second "Road to Pro" video series.
• Travel Trouble: The team describes their journey, with anecdotes about a plane misadventure—possible medical emergency/diversion (03:02).
• Uncertainty: Jason and Pete express apprehension about upcoming (secretive) filming plans.
  • "We're slightly concerned... I don't know what you boys have planned for us and I'm partially terrified." – Jason (01:59)
• Previous Series Recap: The pain of last season's pranks (including Pete's infamous Cape Town sponsorship request and a leg break) is contrasted with the new adventure.

2. Multi-Host Format & Podcast Feedback

• Listener Reactions: Ben and Adrian discuss mixed feedback on episodes with new co-hosts, acknowledging “pushback” from listeners who prefer the core duo (04:10).
  • "They said we don't want to hear from anyone. We just want to hear you two talking." – Ben (04:18)
• Finding Rhythm: Emphasis on letting the format evolve.

3. Cultural Encounters in Japan

• Shopping Madness: The team recounts a chaotic, surreal visit to Don Quixote, a sensory-overload Japanese store.
  • "It's like hell in a shop... an audio visual disaster... like a physical representation of social media." – Adrian (07:16, 07:40)
• Odd Acquisitions: Purchases include a horse mask, a Charizard plush ("taxidermy"), and a “massage gun” that’s actually a sex toy (08:21).
• Local Food Adventures: Wholesome yakitori meals, awkward refusals of raw chicken, and sampling of chicken hearts and necks (10:31-11:27).

4. Kiteboarding Talk: Tech, Gear, & Trends

Jason’s New Kite – Nash Psycho Envision

• Tech Details: Jason describes his new Nash kite, drawing comparisons to the Brainchild, but emphasizing unique tech.
  • "It is the latest leading edge material... beautiful canopy cloth... really, really fast. It’s the fastest." – Jason (12:12)
• Development Process: The intricacies of digital printing, Dacron materials, construction, and the difference between marketing and innovation (13:07).

Boots vs. Straps in Big Air & Freestyle

• Debate: Should more riders use boots for Wu Records? Jason argues they offer more control for boosting but most are set in their strap-riding ways (14:32-15:12).
  • "If it was just a session when you’re going to go out and boost, boots are for sure the answer." – Jason (15:12)
• Visual vs. Technical: Discussion of style, risk, and potential injury, plus references to Finn Flugel and Aaron Hadlow’s style evolutions.

Freestyle vs. Big Air Consumption

• Spectator Experience: Big air dominates but good freestyle still captivates, especially live (17:50).
  • "Watching a freestyle comp live is the sickest thing ever because big air, you’re on the beach getting blasted by wind... freestyle, you got a brisk 12, 15 knots and you’re checking the voice." – Jason (17:50)

Price Wars & Brand Economics

• Blank Kite Test Insights: A frank examination of how price-per-performance has complicated buyer choices with vast differences in kite prices, sometimes making a “full quiver” cheaper than a single flagship kite (21:48-23:08).
• COVID Overproduction: Brands flooded the market, driving prices down unsustainably (25:13).
• Industry Future: Predictions that “cheap” kites from brands like Gong may come to dominate, while legacy brands with no diversity or investment risk vanishing (26:41, 27:13).

Podium vs. Rider Fame in Kite Marketing

• Do wins sell kites?: The group debates whether podium finishes drive sales more than big personality riders.
  • "Podium results sell kites, not riders... But it’s starting to put pressure on the smaller brands." – Ben (27:42)
  • "Podiums give credibility... but a shitload of marketing [is needed] to support that." – Jason (28:03)

Competition Formats – One Design Kite Classes

• Fairness and Cost Control: A discussion unfolds about whether a "one kite for all" racing/class approach would level the field or introduce new problems (32:14-34:58).
  • "Would a one class competition where everyone has to ride the same kite... quality goes down and price goes up." – Pete (00:09, 34:58)
• Prototyping Expense: Reveals that each development kite can cost €500+shipping, highlighting the costs behind continuous innovation (29:13).

Evolution of Big Air Kites

• Timeline & Tech Progress: From C-kites and the introduction of bridles, to the D Lab Evo and recent innovations—each boosting rider performance and altering event outcomes.
  • "The further forward a kite flies and without having stability issues, the better it will perform." – Jason (31:15)
• Competition Dangers: The insane risks of pushing the limits at places like Lords of Tram.
  • "You have to be literally willing to die." – Jason (37:28)
  • Recounts of serious accidents (Josh Gillet, Janzun)—hard landings, near-death experiences.

Gender, Skill, and Risk in Big Air

• Female Progression & Perception: Extended acknowledgment of the women at big air events, both their risk and tenacity.
  • "I think that is what is impressive with the females, to be honest, just their willingness to want to go and compete." – Jason (42:31)
• Debate: Adrian challenges whether the praise skews towards misogyny—leads to nuanced reflections on skill vs. gender in extreme conditions.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (by Timestamp)

• Plane Trouble, Tokyo Layover
  • “The plane got diverted en route to Doha to Bahrain because someone maybe died on our plane. We’re not sure.” – Adrian (03:02)
• Don Quixote Shopping Hell
  • “It’s like hell in a shop... just an audio visual disaster.” – Adrian (07:16)
  • “When you get isolated... you turn around, it’s like a little maze... run back to the pack.” – Ben (09:08)
• Freestyle vs. Big Air Competition
  • “Watching a freestyle comp live is the sickest thing ever... it’s actually really nice to watch freestyle. Good powered freestyle.” – Jason (17:50)
• Women in Big Air
  • “12 girls that compete in that. They’re the only 12 girls on earth who would go out and ride that thing.” – Ben (40:12)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Time | |---------------------------------|-------------| | Arrival in Ishigaki, Japan | 00:36–01:59 | | Previous Road to Pro Recap | 02:25–02:50 | | Listener Feedback on Hosts | 04:10–05:08 | | Don Quixote Store Madness | 07:08–09:21 | | Local Food & Noodle Stories | 10:31–11:27, 21:00–21:18 | | Jason’s Kite Tech Deep Dive | 12:01–14:03 | | Kite Industry Price Wars | 21:48–28:34 | | Evolution of Competition Kites | 29:43–32:12 | | One-Design/One-Kite Debates | 32:14–36:39 | | Lords of Tram Danger Stories | 37:11–39:48 | | Gender & Risk in Competition | 40:12–44:14 | | Planning the Next Project | 46:25–48:50 |

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Memorable Moments & Humor

• Michelle Sky Haywood 2: Throwback to Adrian’s Instagram alter-ego chosen by fans (05:14–05:49).
• TikTok Spanking on Osaka Bridge: Bizarre street scene underscores Japanese culture shock (09:56).
• "No one wants a kite video like this": Team riffs on whether the new project is necessity or folly (46:34–46:52).
• Winging? “Never.”: Consensus that wing-boarding isn’t worth their creative or sporting energy (47:37).

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Conclusion & Overall Vibe

This MEGAPOD episode blends raw travelogue, technical deep-dives, industry critique, and the self-deprecating wit the crew is known for. Whether it’s dissecting the economics of kite prices, recounting gnarly accident stories, or ribbing each other over lost shopping experiences and leg breaks, the episode is a whirlwind snapshot of the kiteboarding subculture in 2026.

Final Quote:
“Just remember: never been seen, never been done. You’ll be part of history.” – Ben (48:47)

[END]

Transcript

[Jason Vanderspade]

Guys kiting not at a spot, everyone's thinking, big end. You see the one guy chucking passes, he catches eyes.

[Ben]

Would a one class competition where everyone has to ride the same kite, quality.

[Pete]

Goes down and price goes up.

[Adrian]

If we were at all interested in winging, we would have started that a long time ago.

[Ben]

Catastrophic equipment failure.

[Pete]

Going for the boogaloo double just to get the landing. Had a couple of strings and it was extremely dangerous.

[Adrian]

Guys, I sent the trap and it.

[Ben]

Is gold for Ellie Aldridge and gold for Great Britain.

[Adrian]

All right, we've made it to Japan on the quiet island of Ishigaki, which is about two and a half hours in a plane southwest of the Japanese mainland. It's actually really close to Taiwan.

[Ben]

Very close.

[Adrian]

I'm sat here with Adrian, who you've just heard, but Jason Vanderspade's here and Steezy Pete is here also. Hello, Pete.

[Pete]

Hello, hello.

[Adrian]

There we go. And yeah, this is actually our first full day here. We flew in yesterday and here we are today. We're battling the jet lag. We've just gone and played basketball, which is a bit weird. And yeah, we sat here to bring. Bring you all the latest from where we are, Adrian, what, what we're actually going to discuss.

[Ben]

We did our first kite surfing session yesterday at Sandy Feet Kite School, which is the school of Jeto, Kwano and Hika.

[Pete]

When's that open, Adrian?

[Ben]

Yeah, I don't know the tagline.

[Adrian]

October until March.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, beautiful spot. No wind, no sun.

[Jason Vanderspade]

There was wind. Yeah, we had a session yesterday. Well, when I say we had a session yesterday, I mean we all kite it for probably about four minutes. And Pete, I battled it out for a good hour. Took out some boards in the process of it.

[Pete]

Yeah, I had a great time though. It was very nice.

[Adrian]

So we're here to make the second series of the Road to pro stuff, which these two actually don't know what we're going to do. And later on today we're going to go through the story and it is quite loose. There's a reason why we didn't tell them what we wanted to do until we got them all in Japan.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Well, I mean, like 10 minutes before you guys sat down, Peter and I were actually saying we are slightly concerned or I don't know if we shall be mortified when we find out. I don't know what you boys have planned for us and I'm partially terrified.

[Pete]

Yeah, I mean, last season was pretty excruciating to make at points for you for Me. And I worry that if the ante is to be up this time, it might be, it might be, it might be quite something.

[Adrian]

So I remember at the end of last season you said, and this was on the day that we made them darts like twats on the Cape Town roundabout and made Pete go into the duo tone shop and ask for a sponsorship. And he said, this isn't even the most painful afternoon. What was more painful, do you think? That or breaking your leg?

[Pete]

Oh, the leg break doesn't even come close.

[Adrian]

It is really important this time, though, that you don't.

[Pete]

No breaking my leg. No, no, I shan't.

[Jason Vanderspade]

You guys had quite a journey getting it. But you guys, I'm looking at Pete and Ben and Sam, who's hidden around the corner. Care to fill us in on your process?

[Adrian]

Yeah, the plane got diverted en route to Doha to Bahrain because someone maybe died on our plane. We're not sure.

[Pete]

Yeah, we didn't get a good look at the situation, but the rumor mill working it, working its way down economy.

[Adrian]

So a couple things to cover. Jason Van Dispose on his new kites. Yeah, he's, he's a Nash. He's a Nash kid now.

[Jason Vanderspade]

I'm a Nash boy.

[Adrian]

Part of the Nash house, which actually you're going to go back to Cape Town.

[Jason Vanderspade]

I had to get the Nash team to move the shoot to the latter part of February so that I could be in Japan with you boys.

[Adrian]

Oh, yes, that makes sense actually because I spoke to one of the videographers trying to get them here and they were like, no, no, no, we're shooting with Jason. And at the end of Jane Feb, I was like, no, you ain't.

[Jason Vanderspade]

So priority set. But thank you Nash for being willing to shift.

[Ben]

Oh, I like the fact that you just signed and then started taking control straight away. Yeah, first shoot, can't do it. Nope.

[Jason Vanderspade]

I politely asked them to move it later and they were accommodating and willing, let's phrase it like that, but yes, otherwise very happy on it.

[Ben]

I don't think they would have done that for anyone else.

[Adrian]

What would Robbie want? That's the question. He would want this.

[Pete]

He would want this.

[Adrian]

Adrian, is it true that the reception to our multi host podcast has not all been entirely smooth and happy?

[Ben]

No, there was a little bit of pushback on the particularly the last one. I had a few people message me. They said we don't want to hear from anyone. We just want to hear you two talking. Which is basically what I, what I got. But I, I, I've been telling people, guys, we need to let people build into, to find people. We need to get that rhythm. And that will come. We're going to push on for a couple more months with this bringing in a third host. And if it doesn't work, we'll. We'll give up.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Do you not think that it's maybe that when you bring in a host, they too correct in the things that they're saying and not as unhinged as you two boys, possibly.

[Adrian]

He was actually pretty good.

[Ben]

Yeah, he was good.

[Adrian]

He was arguing with you and I was like, this is perfect.

[Ben]

Yeah, that was good. But it's also me and you, Ben as well. Right. It didn't really come and, and it felt, in the end, it just felt like we were interviewing and I don't want that. And we'll get out of that. It's just.

[Jason Vanderspade]

I do miss the old Michelle Sky Hayward two attitude from you, sir.

[Adrian]

Everyone does. Yeah. Things evolve, don't they? So Michelle Sky Haywood too. A lot of you won't understand what that is, but basically, when I first started on Instagram, I did, I put, I said to the audience, choose my next name. And Michelle Sky Haywood was like the pin up, sort of bikini kite babe at the time. So the audience chose her name. So I had to put two on the end because obviously she already had Michelle Scott at Michelle's Wood. So then that was my name on Instagram for many a month. And she's also your neighbor, is she not?

[Jason Vanderspade]

She lives down the road for me, yes.

[Adrian]

Who's gone more viral, actually? Her with her shit on her face reel or you with your endless reeling?

[Jason Vanderspade]

I'd say she won in the way that she actually managed to convince the mayor of Cape Town to join her in the frothy water.

[Adrian]

So let me just give a little bit context. She put up this reel of her accidentally. She's like in the frothy water in Cape Town and it's brown and it looks like shit goes in her mouth. And she's like, you know, she's, she's being a bikini babe, like oblivious to the fact that she's got shit in her mouth. So that went massively viral, people laughing at her. And then, I mean, it made British news.

[Ben]

It was in, it was actually print.

[Jason Vanderspade]

I mean, for, for clarity, it most likely, I mean, Cape Town waters do contain traces of E. Coli, so the probability of being shit in any water is high. But it is just sea froth from big swell. But I mean, the whole world thought that she was Just absolutely golfing in swimming turds. Basically.

[Ben]

We have sort of assassinated her. But she is actually a nice person.

[Jason Vanderspade]

She is actually lovely.

[Adrian]

Last night we went to a shop called Don Quixote, which has nothing to do with the good bit of literature. Yeah, but why is it called that?

[Pete]

I have absolutely no idea.

[Ben]

Because we were looking for shit in the jungle and we went to look for shit in a shop.

[Pete]

Honestly, that's. That sounds pretty on point.

[Adrian]

So, yeah, it's like hell in a shop. You walk in and there's about 10 different things you can hear all at once. Like 10 different songs all at once. It's just an audio visual disaster. And we were in there looking for taxidermied birds and massage guns. We only found one of those.

[Ben]

It's literally like if Temu was a.

[Adrian]

Shop, it's like a physical representation of social media. That's actually what social media feels like to me when I log on and look at that crap now. That's what that shop was like. Don Quixote. Anyway, so we're in there and we. Everyone walks in and has this, like, assault, physical, spiritual sensation that, you know, we all wanted to leave, so we kind of, like, went around like a pack. If you, like, went down a little aisle or something and felt isolated, you instantly wanted to run back to the pack. And anyway, we leave with not a taxidermied bird, but a. A horse. It's not a helmet.

[Ben]

A horse mask.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Adrian]

Jason bought horse mask. And then we bought a. We got a. Like, a stuffed dragon, which I actually think is a Pokemon. I think it's Charizard. That was either taxidermy.

[Ben]

Grand Charizard.

[Adrian]

That's as close as we got to a taxidermied bird, which I was quite disappointed with, but it's gonna have to do. And then we bought a. Jason bought a sex toy that he's going to convince Jetto is a massage gun.

[Ben]

We got a model airplane.

[Adrian]

A model airplane.

[Pete]

We got a model aeroplane. We did get a model airplane.

[Adrian]

Yeah.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Pete got sunblock.

[Pete]

Pete got sunblock.

[Adrian]

Yeah. That is the most vanilla, vanilla park.

[Ben]

And you're such a British tourist day. Look, everyone's coming out of these ridiculous toys and winter. Can you believe how cheap the sunblock is here? Look, it's a.

[Pete]

It's a potent winter, all right. It's not to be underestimated.

[Adrian]

And you got.

[Jason Vanderspade]

You got Sam to pay for it.

[Ben]

You're right about that shop. It's like, you know, you feel safe walking as a pack, but, you know, when you get isolated, you turn around, it's like a little maze and you sort of end up looking down. Oh, there's, there's someone. You run back to them and he's like, let's keep together. Pete actually texts the group, I'm lost, help me.

[Jason Vanderspade]

We couldn't find the counter.

[Pete]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Vanderspade]

And to put it in context, I was busy walking around with a disposable camera, a horse mask and a vibrator. And there was people looking at us and Pete just wanted to get out of them.

[Ben]

Let's say our experience with the shopping here in Japan is strange, right? You know, when we're in Osaka that first night waiting for you guys, we went to a four or five story building which was. Every floor was just chocolates, five floors of chocolates. And it was full to the brim, like it was the night before Christmas. And we were like walking there. Of course we're like two feet taller than everyone else. And we were like, should we go one more floor? Yeah, one more floor, one more floor. And we're like, let's just get out of here.

[Jason Vanderspade]

It was, it's an intense experience. I mean also when we were walking around the streets in Osaka, having a lovely time sightseeing, it was very overwhelming to say the least. But then we get onto this bridge and we see this whole 13 year old, 14 year old kid with an iPhone setup, recording a TikTok live, fully bent over. Some guy has a stick in hand and he's spanking him one. Screaming and screaming at the same time. And that. That's all I have to say.

[Adrian]

By the way, that was their first evening in, in Japan. Our first evening was we walk from our humble dwelling around the corner and sit down in a. What was it? What was it?

[Jason Vanderspade]

Yakitori.

[Adrian]

Yeah. Which is.

[Pete]

Which is like fried bits of chicken. Of all the chicken.

[Adrian]

Yeah. We sit next to this father and son.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Yeah, we had a really.

[Adrian]

It was wholesome, wasn't it?

[Pete]

Incredibly wholesome. We had a lovely wholesome chat with them. The one of the kind of bartender.

[Adrian]

Slash chefs of the place, you know.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Spoke a bit of English.

[Pete]

There's a little banter, some kind of cultural cross pollination going on. It was, it was beautiful.

[Adrian]

Really fertile.

[Ben]

You know, it's a classy place. When it's barman slash chef, that's never a good sign.

[Pete]

In this case, I'd say it was an excellent sign.

[Adrian]

The food was terrific. They tried to make us eat raw chicken.

[Pete]

We did veto that.

[Ben]

Yeah, that's good for salmonella.

[Adrian]

But I've had people in my personal life saying that's pathetic. Your first night in Japan, locals are offering you their cuisine. You're turning your nose up at it.

[Pete]

I mean, we went in for the chicken hearts. I thought that was quite.

[Adrian]

Yeah, we did eat chicken hearts. We ate mad awful. What else? Oh, chicken neck. Chicken neck, Chicken neck.

[Pete]

Chicken skin.

[Adrian]

A nasty floppy thing that's underneath. Okay. So at the weekend on the 7th and the 8th, there is some wind coming and it's coming from the north, the northwest. So we're looking at maybe leaving the island and going somewhere else. It's looking like 30 knots.

[Jason Vanderspade]

We're going to an island from the island?

[Adrian]

Yes.

[Pete]

Okay.

[Adrian]

But we would also kite an Ishigaki too.

[Jason Vanderspade]

That's looking good. I'm hoping that we can take out the nine square meters, maybe.

[Adrian]

What kite you want, Jason? If you're running a nine, that's a good question.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Thank you for setting that one up. I'm on the latest and greatest piece of technology. People have proclaimed, I think that's the right word, that it is out of Brainchild factory, but it is, in fact not. It is identical in every way possible. It just doesn't have senior rough. It is the latest leading edge material. It's got some stuff that I can't talk about in the stitching. It's got some beautiful canopy cloth. It's all very much like the top. Bigger kites at the moment, as you know, as the blank eye test, also experienced some of these latest and greatest materials. It is a wonderful kite. Really, really fast. It's the fastest. Because I've had pretty slow kites in the past. I think we can agree with this. This thing is rapid.

[Adrian]

What is it?

[Jason Vanderspade]

It's a psycho envision, but it is nothing like its predecessors.

[Adrian]

Okay, so five str, five struts.

[Jason Vanderspade]

It's. You can double the nine. You have to grab floats, but the nine doubles. It's fast. Just busy tweaking it now over the next two months and it should be out mid year, hopefully.

[Adrian]

So when you're described, when you're saying that it's similar to the Brainchild, that's because it's printed.

[Jason Vanderspade]

The digital printing is one thing. What makes Brainchild Brainchild is the way that they construct the kites. They use a specific leading edge. Dacron. I think they're using maybe 120 gram dacron. Um, and the way that they do their seams is they don't have stitching on the seams on the leading edge. And the segments, they weld it so it's welded. The whole leading edge is uniform. And then they use a really lightweight canopy cloth. I'm not going to say the name yet. And that's what makes branch out. Branch out. And obviously you got Rolf, who does all the designing and the bridles and the tweaks and stuff, which gives it that extra kick. But we were out there on par with the best guides at the moment in terms of materials. So I'm excited.

[Ben]

By the way, one of the legendary King of the Year brands.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Right.

[Ben]

I think they've won three, three King of the years on Nash.

[Adrian]

So it'd be great to see where Jesse's first one.

[Ben]

Jesse.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Jesse won King of the.

[Adrian]

Kevin never won on a read in.

[Ben]

No. Yeah, he won Jesse, Kevin, Kevin and two Kevin on Nash three.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Kevin on Nash three was on it.

[Adrian]

Yeah. And Karen was on the torch.

[Jason Vanderspade]

First year, actually the last ones he.

[Ben]

Was on the pivot. He was the first guy to really break away and go for that sort of bridles three. Yeah, three strike hiders up there. Bridles.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Bridles were frowned upon until 2016, 2017 maybe. Just wasn't cool. Handles, big handles, big fins, small boards, foot straps, bridles, short leashes. Disgusting question.

[Ben]

Why don't we see people go for Wu Records using boots? Because surely you can hold more power. You can really, you know, really get that sort of, you know, a lot more pressure in that kite and go for it. Because I think that boots in big air, with all the rotations and the speed you're coming in, you know, you really are risking it. But I think in going for a woo, I think boots would be. Would be perfect.

[Jason Vanderspade]

No, it's. That's actually, that's a good point. And to be honest, it would make sense if we all read boots actually just for boosting. But I think all of us are so like just used to riding straps that it doesn't even cross our minds, you know, because you don't know in your session if you want to do tricks and rotations. But if it was just a session when you're going to go out and boost, boots are for sure the answer.

[Adrian]

Oh, you reckon, man?

[Jason Vanderspade]

I reckon for sure. You take a one, a 132, maybe twin tip, rock some boots because you can really sit into it and hold power and quite big fins and you got all the advantage. Like the thing with straps is you got a very small part of fabric over your foot that is connecting you to the board and your heels and Your toes are loose, so you actually. You don't have full connection to the board. And as soon as you tighten up boots completely, obviously you have to position them right on your board, but. But you can see, look, you can feel the difference immediately. You can hold so much power and.

[Adrian]

You look sick and you look so.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Cool until you got a handle on the board as well. And really big fins with boots.

[Ben]

You know, it's interesting with Finn, right, because I think that freestyle need that next generation of guys to inspire people and I think Finn can do that. And it'll be interesting to see Finn Flugel. Yeah. Who features in the Blank Kite Test, episode number three, if he can inspire people to follow his trend, which Andrea and Lorenzo arguably did, and those guys, Janik before those. Do you think we'll see a move away from boots and freestyle? I mean, there's always going to be the old guard who's going to say, you've got to wear boots. It's the way you can do it. But Finn's proving that you don't need it. Right?

[Jason Vanderspade]

I mean, if you. If you looking at freestyle from a cool point of view, if you just want, like, visual pleasure, then the guys that are running boots, it's sexy, it's. It's power, it's raw straps, you kind of a little bit loose, a little bit flimsy and floppy, but you can really get good rotation in and stuff. I don't know. I guess it's just like when you're watching surfing, it's just like you see guys doing crazy, powerful carves versus guys that are just flicking about and doing airs. So it's just more like a visual preference, I reckon.

[Adrian]

You watch the early Aaron Hadlow stuff, though, that's in straps. Like the one that Tom Bridge loves is Aaron hadlow in Brazil 2007. He's in straps, getting these, like, mad positions that you wouldn't be able to get in boots because you don't have the ankle flexibility. So there's that and there's also the fact that you can just, I think, take more risk because you're not in boots. So you can fly out. It doesn't matter.

[Ben]

And Finn said that. Hey said, I'm not afraid to take a big crash because he just fall out of the straps. Easy. Yeah. It will be interesting to see if he can inspire more people into freestyle because I. I mean, listen, guys, we all like freestyle, right? And how cool was that? You know, during the Blank Kite Test, being up close and watching Sam do even just do simple three One, you know, three one threes around us. And it was so co to see and, and stuff like that. It was, it was awesome just to see freestyle close because we're so used to, I mean we've basically been covering big air for the last five or six years. But it was awesome to see that and be around that and hear the, the power of the landings and how much power they can pull out of those kites. And it's maybe a side of the sport that we people should get back into.

[Jason Vanderspade]

I think the coolest part about freestyle is actually the competitions. Watching a freestyle comp live is the sickest thing ever because big air, you're on the beach, you're getting blasted by wind, sand, sun. It's just brutal freestyle, you got a brisk 12, 15 knots and you're checking the voice. Chuck. Crazy technical things. Mad power. Like you said, it's, it's actually really nice to watch freestyle. Good powered freestyle.

[Ben]

I mean, Pete, you're a consumer. Do you enjoy watching freestyle or do you enjoy watching big ear more? And what of those two attracts you?

[Pete]

I think that I seek out big air content more as I think that it's kind of. It was the sport in the ascent. It's the part of the sport that's been in the ascendance since I started kiting and kind of the kind of heroes, Kevin Langry and co that is that those kind of late teens Big air riders were kind of the, they were, they were the, the, the, the it people of the sport when I started.

[Adrian]

So.

[Pete]

But there is something about when you see a really good freestyle clip, it just, just, it does look sick.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Like now especially like if you see guys kiting out at a spot, everyone's think big and you see the one guy chucking passes, he catches eyes like even, like even I'm riding and I'm busy watching this guy instead of all the other guys jumping and stuff. It's really like yo catches your eyeball.

[Ben]

I mean you've ridden around Tom a lot, right? You worked for the family, you've seen him riding. I mean it's all fun to see.

[Pete]

It is really cool to see. And you're absolutely right, Jason, when not everyone's doing certainly catches the eye. I think normal freestyle looks a lot better than quote unquote normal big air. I think, I think at the very top level of the sport, there's really seeing Andrea on kind of a full on full chat is. It's really, it's something else. It boggles the mind. But I think even Just kind of normal. Kylie rotations are kind of. Let's call it 15 meters versus kind of equivalent level freestyle. I think the freestyle is potentially.

[Adrian]

I think it looks better on Brazil. Yeah. I remember when we were coming to the end of Pete's first series Road to Me, we were joking that we'd make him do a handle pass in the next one. Can you remember what no Font said to you?

[Pete]

I can't, actually. I think it was, he's never going to do a handle pass.

[Adrian]

Pete dead in the eye and said, pete, you will never be able to do a handle pass. Which I thought was not in the spirit of things.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Shall we rewrite the script and do some handle passes in Ishigaki?

[Adrian]

Yeah.

[Jason Vanderspade]

The horse.

[Adrian]

What did you call it?

[Jason Vanderspade]

The horse track.

[Pete]

Horse tractor handle pass.

[Adrian]

High weight handle pass.

[Ben]

How did that make you feel, though, when no one said that to you?

[Adrian]

Boulevard to Boogie Loop.

[Pete]

I think I said fair.

[Ben]

But did you say fair because you felt intimidated? Because if you maybe didn't know him, you'd say, maybe I've got a chance to do it.

[Pete]

I think I just didn't really. I can't. I don't think I really took it to heart, really. I mean, you know, it's an entitled opinion. I don't really honestly know. I mean, you can think that and it's not even. It's a pretty valid thing to think. I mean, I'm pretty hopeless.

[Adrian]

But such was the beauty of Steezy poo.

[Pete]

Want to give it a go anyway? Really?

[Adrian]

Pete doesn't give a.

[Ben]

Well, we did play basketball with Pete today, and it was. Let's just say it was interesting.

[Adrian]

No shaming of Pete.

[Pete]

I'm not into ball sports.

[Adrian]

You can.

[Pete]

You can feel free to call my ball sports bulleted.

[Adrian]

Questions.

[Ben]

You're hearing all four of us opening.

[Jason Vanderspade]

A chocolate here and a break for the boys. It's going to be great audio and hard work.

[Adrian]

Japanese chocolate.

[Pete]

This is good.

[Adrian]

So on top of the food, we had amazing noodles.

[Jason Vanderspade]

The best noodles.

[Adrian]

I thought I'd had noodles, good noodles before. I hadn't.

[Jason Vanderspade]

There was about maybe a ton of flour sitting outside the door.

[Adrian]

Yeah, everything fresh there every day.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Making the noodles, rolling it, cutting it, cooking it, then reconsuming it, eating it.

[Adrian]

I don't know how interesting this is for people to hear.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Have you spoken about the Blank Artist?

[Adrian]

Oh, yeah. Okay, so the fourth episode's out.

[Jason Vanderspade]

We are off. I would say from my point of view, I am sitting in this room while the. The editor is sitting about 3 meters away from Me. And they're editing the final episode. I've heard the. The insights and the winners, but I dare not say.

[Adrian]

Tricky. Hang on, I'll finish my mouth.

[Ben]

No, keep going. I like it.

[Adrian]

This was a difficult one because we had a range of kites as brainchild kites in there. There's brand new north, unreleased north ones in there.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Yeah.

[Adrian]

It was the cheapest kite we've ever had in. In this test. There's new stuff from F1. There is a massive, massive range and they're all in there together, which would have been fine if we hadn't opened the can of. Yes. But this is how much this kite costs, which Sam Light wanted to do. And because it's his test, we sort of let him do it. But then of course, he's not picking what just performs the best, but what is best value. And then he takes you on a path that we haven't been down before. And then it was quite surprising where that path ended up. And it's quite convoluted, honestly, because you know this kite is technically the best, but it's twice the price because you can at the moment go online and buy 10 meter switchblades for 450 quid. If you can buy three switchblades for the price of more than three, you can buy four switchblades for the price of one kite. Like, there's no way that one kite can compete with an 8, a 7, a 9, 11 and a 13.

[Ben]

Yeah. I mean, there's even kites in the test and if you've been watching, you know that there's kites. You can buy two kites for the price of that. So, you know, the general quiver is a 9 and 12. I think that's the most basic quiver people have. You could get a full quiver for the price of the top kites, which. Which is crazy. I mean, I don't mind because I think it shows potentially what might be wrong with this industry. We've been talking about this race for the bottom for how long? When's that going to start happening? Gongs come into the market you and I were speaking about the other day, Jason. They haven't probably made the impact they really wanted. I know that Craig Cunningham, the new team manager, is talking to a lot and I think you even had some talks with. Are we allowed to speak with that? You even had some talks with Craig. But the race to the bottom is interesting. As soon as someone can produce a great kite and then get cool riders on it and people who sell it, that's Going to rock the industry. Because at the moment we're sort of going down the same road that windsurfing went down all those years ago, but just pricing ourselves out. Cycling as well, probably. And that then predetermines the type of people who get into kiteboarding.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Well, I mean, you're saying all this stuff now, but if you really think about it, for the average bloke, even for, let's say, the top levels, but for the average bloke, there is no really bad kite that they can buy from 2020 up. If you're looking at it that way, you know, like there is no bad kite. I mean, he's saying the rate to the race from the bottom or to the bottom, he's saying which kite is then the cheapest, like for value or. What are you referring to? You're referring to that?

[Ben]

I think performance. Performance at a good price point. But look, that you're always going to lose, right? There's always going to be some give and take, but it's just not cool to ride those kites. That's the problem.

[Jason Vanderspade]

But that's the thing. It's a. Yeah. So what you're saying is it's basically just all marketing. The reason kites got so expensive with the Honolulu run was purely marketing. Like, why aren't the best kites now made of a little, you know, like the NXT is great because it's a great kite, but there's other good kites that aren't made of a little. Like it's just, it's all marketing and if you can just mark at the bottom of the barrel kites in terms of price, people will love them.

[Pete]

Ocean Rodeo told people that you can. People will pay €3,000 for a kite. And so now everyone wants €3,000 for their kites. It's kind of sloppy, isn't it?

[Adrian]

The problem is, and you mentioned gong there, they're going to come in €600 price point for a 9, right? Or less. They haven't had the impact they've had because guess what? Cabrina Switchblades and Nash pivots have been 450. And that's. But that's not healthy that or sustainable that only that price. Because brands massively overproduced during COVID because there was a spike in demand and they thought that spike was forever. So they overproduced, flooded the market and now the shops have had insane buying power and can drive the price down. But that's not forever. I think in the next few years the Gonkites are Going to be the cheapest once all these switchblades have sold out.

[Ben]

Kai Mana, who, let's be honest, have done a great job in this sector. They've picked up all these cheap kites. They're selling it. We were speaking to Jetto and Hika yesterday that they're buying stuff from Kitemana because they can get a great deal for this school, which is awesome. Kite mana have actually taken this opportunity and really run with it and done a great job. But in respect to Tom and those guys at Kitema and the team there, they're growing this great tree, but they're like hacking the bottom of it apart, you know, so the tree's going to fall over at one stage, but I want these guys to do well. I think you said it to me one time, Colin. You said kite brands never disappear. They just. They just morph into something else. Yeah. What will be the first kite brand to actually disappear? Because, well, best is gone, you know. I know, but then, by the way, you can. That guy's still selling stuff.

[Adrian]

Right?

[Ben]

But I mean, kite brands have gone smaller kite brands. But let's talk about big ones.

[Adrian]

Plexifoil.

[Ben]

Flexifoil was big, but what's the next big one to, like, pack up shop and just give up? Unless you have winging and hydrofoiling and other sort of, let's say, income streams in your company and you're just focused on mainly Kaist, you really are in trouble. You do need to be very sort of diverse in your approach. And gong is backed up by having great wings and foils and stuff. Right. Maybe that they can afford to muck around with kites at the moment.

[Jason Vanderspade]

It seems like every successful brand at the moment is just driven by huge investors. So, like, I don't know. I think if you're. If you struggling to get investments into the brand, into buying athletes, into producing large quantities of kites and being able to sell them, I think you're struggling. So I don't know. Like, I think brands can always pivot and figure something out. And I don't know if they truly ever disappear until they really, truly give up. But I don't know who's willing to invest the most.

[Ben]

I still believe that podium results sell kites, not riders. I still think if you get kites on podiums, whether it's surf, hydrofoil, big air, you name it, people look at that and think, I want to be in that position. I want to be on the best kite. That's a problem because it's starting to put Pressure on the smaller brands.

[Adrian]

You agree with that?

[Jason Vanderspade]

I think podiums give credibility to the brand that the kite works and then through a lot of marketing and clever distribution, it sells kites. So indirectly, yes, for sure. I don't know if it's a direct impact, because a lot of people are very happy when they see one of their. Let's say people are fan of Lorenzo and Lorenzo wins, they're happy, but they're not going to be like, I need this kite. You know, if the brand markets it correctly and everything like that, then yes, for sure. So, like, you can't just win a competition and sell kites. There has to be a shitload of marketing to support that.

[Pete]

Do you think that the push, call it the technology wall, whatever you will, the push for development in big air kites and the equivalent or the associated increase in cost. Do you think that whole kind of win on Sunday, sell on Monday mentality, do you think that's part of the issue that's causing the massive price hike that we've seen recently?

[Jason Vanderspade]

What did they want to constantly develop new kites and have better and better gear? Yeah. I mean, your development is so expensive, like the amount of prototypes you're running to make a slight change to kites. I don't think people understand this. It's huge. Like you just absolutely ordering prototypes after prototypes. And the thing is, with prototypes as well, the shipping is just because you've got to get each kite in. So it's a very expensive process.

[Adrian]

What we talking, we're talking about €500 a prototype.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Yeah, about. And then shipping is probably around 300, 400 for the kites or something. So to get it quick, you obviously send in a bunch of prototypes at a time where you try to combine our shipments. But it's a very expensive process. But I think if we weren't pushing for development of gear, the sport would kind of stand still in a way, in terms of what the top level riders can do and how far kiting can go, you know, because if we were still on the sea kites from 2016, Mission Impossible.

[Adrian]

So, as a timeline, 2016 had low wins. King of the air on a duo Tone.

[Ben]

I think he was on the dice, wasn't he?

[Adrian]

Was it Vegas? No, it was Vegas.

[Ben]

You sure?

[Adrian]

Vegas, yeah, yeah, Green Vegas. Then Kevin comes with the pivot. So then bridles come in, but the kite doesn't loop that nicely, but he's got that extra lift. Then the north orbit comes in and all of a sudden you got the lift and it loops Nicely. Then kites came in that went even higher, like the XR and the Rebel. And then came the Evo D Lab, which just looped in a completely different way.

[Jason Vanderspade]

And that ocean rodeo for doubles, that's when the Alula started booming. But I mean the whole concept of kites with bridles pre2016 was wave kites. And wave kites inherently have to sit deeper so you get drift. So when they started really pushing bridal kites with big air, the concept was a little bit foreign because now you got to make the kite fly as far forwards as possible and have rapid turning. So there's a long process to get the kites to where they are now. I mean, what, 20, 26. And the kites, all the kites are pretty good.

[Adrian]

Yeah, they push forward in the wind.

[Jason Vanderspade]

I mean the NXT as well. You can see that kite, it just sits so far forwards. And that's also what gives a kite second of these days is that it just has to sit obscenely high when you're shooting in.

[Adrian]

So that's kind of the next evolution, wasn't it? When D Lab Evo, which sat really far forward, always wanted to push into the wind. Where's it going to go next?

[Ben]

Back out of the wind?

[Jason Vanderspade]

No, you can't. Like, like the further forwards a kite flies and without having stability issues, the better it will perform at what we needed to do for hang time and boost and everything. Because if you're taking off on a kick in your kites in front of you, you know how it goes, you go, you fly forwards. But if you go on a kite that's sitting well high above you, take off a straight vertical, you're getting lift and everything.

[Adrian]

So that's a difference for you as well. Coming onto this new national kite. It's above you.

[Jason Vanderspade]

It is.

[Adrian]

It was never above you on the air. Wash. I remember watching you at king of the year this year being like, look how far that sat back. Yeah.

[Jason Vanderspade]

So I don't know the evolution of kites at the moment. And also like, you got to look at if, like you got to look at the realistic thing of foil kites and where do they stand in terms of competition. I think as a consumer driven product, to get a foil kite that you're going to loop with is not there yet because you have so many issues with four kites. If you don't maintain it 100%, you have to trim it. Every other session you crash this thing you stuffed. So it's, it's not there yet. For the Normal consumer.

[Adrian]

One crash and it's like, yeah, it's done.

[Ben]

I wonder if there's any legs in like a one design type class where guys all have to ride the same kite and then it comes down to who's the skill of the rider, you know, I mean arguably we saw that a little bit with the Hydro 4, you know, this year when they went to Abu Dhabi, everyone was riding the Sonics, the, the fly surface Sonic, sorry, a one class design common in sailing. If you look at Olympic classes, right, it's all one class or registered, registered material. But then, then the ISE can control. Would a one class type competition where everyone has to ride the same kite, do you think we would see the same guys at the top?

[Jason Vanderspade]

You would see the same guys in the podium but the, the majority, the, the main pack of the fleet would look somewhat different. Because if you, if you being honest and realistic, the difference between the kites, let's say two years ago was massive. I mean you had the EVA D lab. There wasn't a kite that was even close to that, you know, like impossible. As soon as everyone else hopped on EVA D lab just for a front session, they landed everything they could dream of and more. But now, now I think all kites are pretty good, so I think the top guys would stay. There'll be a few other guys at the bottom and honestly, if it wasn't for, let's say kite politics, the whole fleet would be different anywhere whether it wasn't just a one class kite, you know. But yeah, I think a one class kite thing has legs for sure. Like why not, you know, they did it like you said with the hard four competition, but boards are pretty much all the same, bars are pretty much all the same. If everyone's on the same kites and same line lengths, then it's just down to skill of the ride and luck of the ghost.

[Pete]

I think especially in racing where you have far tighter margins for difference in equipment and the effect. It's like what we've seen in Big Air and the kind of the push, the push performance but a whole nother level and a whole other level of cost. So it's cost control primarily, but even if you have registered kit, you'll find that there will be the best thing. So for example, the VMG has dominated for many years now in, in hydrofoil course racing. And so yeah, you still end up on one kit, but it's cost control effectively, isn't it? It's cost control. It's.

[Ben]

Yeah, you know, I think we heard Connor bought was it 100 kites? 150 and just tested them all to find the best one. So there is discrepancy from every kite. Right. You know these kites, as you saw, you know in the how to get paid series, those people are hand sewing, there's going to be discrepancies in every kite. So even if we have a one class, let's say, let's say we're all competitors and I have less budget, you have more budget, you can buy more of this kites. You can go through each of those kites and just get it right. Well, I have to can only afford one. So again it's going to come down to, you know, you're talking about money. It's going to come down to who can afford to buy the most gear and find the kite that's perfectly tuned. Now we're getting to the same loop.

[Pete]

I think that's a really good point. And yeah, as you said, it's even when you have a one design class, you have, I guess, gamesmanship, don't you, you have all the. How far can you modify your equipment before it counts as cheating? I have stories from the windsurfing Olympic classes where they would be provided equipment and they would, there was a big, a big area of development and kind of discrepancy between the boards was the flex in the fins. And they would go and they would test the fin they were given and if they weren't happy with it, they would go around the corner, they would snap the fin in hard, they would take it back so they broke it and they get another fin and they just do that until they got the right one on race day. So yeah, there is that. And also the other issue you have is that in so many one design classes there's always a huge amount of. There's so often a discussion about durability and cost and effectively if you see you have a monopoly, quality goes down and price goes up. So even though money saving is a key benefit you do end up with, you can end up with just huge money, huge scalping on the part of the designer. Unless you if it's a true one design where you have only one registered manufacturer of the equipment.

[Jason Vanderspade]

I mean, Colin, that could be a.

[Ben]

Really good idea to do like a one design blank kite, big head competition where we invite five riders, we get five kites all the same blank, you know, all set up with, with in black or whatever color and we, and we do it that way because that could be, could be kind of fun. The writers don't know what they're writing. The audience gets to experience it. I think there might be some legs in that.

[Jason Vanderspade]

In big air. Now more so than ever, all the kites that the top guys are riding are relatively similar. Like we're all riding a 5 strut big air kite, you know, Like, I think there will be some like, moments, but I don't think it'll be super different. You know, like, there's so many variables and bigger outside of the equipment. Like if you look at a spot at Buckerist for the Lords of Tram, equipment matters, of course, to some degree, but when you're going, it's six. Not as much as a gust, not. Not as much as he has. Not even close.

[Adrian]

So.

[Jason Vanderspade]

So I don't know.

[Adrian]

It's. Yeah, that's gonna be the next comp, eh?

[Jason Vanderspade]

That is the next comp. That what we know. February, two months, back to that place. Every time I go there, I promise myself I'm never coming back. Here we are again.

[Pete]

Awesome.

[Ben]

You're the second person who said that because remember, Jeremy said to us, say, Tommy, I. I don't particularly like to go to Buckerist. It's not a spot for me.

[Jason Vanderspade]

It's.

[Adrian]

It's.

[Jason Vanderspade]

You can do crazy stuff and the spot provides good conditions. But in the strong days, let's say the last competition when it is 60 knots like that, if you really want to go for it and you want to win the title, you have to be so willing to absolutely destroy your body. And by destroy your body, I'm saying you have to be literally willing to die. Can I say that?

[Adrian]

Is that.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Or is that too extreme?

[Adrian]

Well, your good friend Josh Gillet was not that far off it. You face down in the water for how long? 20 seconds? Yeah.

[Jason Vanderspade]

No, he was gone. I mean, I don't think people understand that when you're jumping 25 meters high and let's say you're pulling a really big loop or double loop, you're getting over 100 kilometers an hour free fall. Sometimes you are flying towards that water. And when you're hitting water at 100 km an hour in an awkward position on your body from 25 meters with accelerated force forwards, it can go so wrong. And I mean, like you said with Josh Gillard, it did. He did it. He did a trick. Thankfully, it was only from, let's say, probably 15 meters, but it went as wrong as it possibly could. He was unconscious, underwater, got water into the lungs, had to do sepia on him, drag him to the beach, even Talking about it's still hectic. Took him into the beach. Julie. Luke and I thought he was.

[Adrian]

Everyone did.

[Jason Vanderspade]

He was. He was. He was gone. He wasn't responsive. We. We thought it was over. And then he eventually came to it. But it's.

[Adrian]

I'm still with you. I was still with you next to you when he did the crash. And yeah, you. I remember you watched the impact and like before the water had. Even before his splash had even, like, settled, you were sprinting to the jet.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Ski the way he was going to come out. Yeah. It's just.

[Adrian]

There was no communication between you and Luke.

[Jason Vanderspade]

You both just started running like, you know how it goes. We've been in the sport long enough that you can see when something's about to go very wrong. Yeah. And that was the case. We've had incidences when we're traveling to foreign parts as well. We had this one mission in France where Janzun took out short lines as well, and he just did everything wrong. There's a clip of it. And he also completely unconscious underwater, getting pulled down, drag him out the water, lift his head back under, and then we had to carry him 2km up the beach with a snap leg that was flopping all about. So we. There's. You can see when things are going to go bad and it comes. And that spot is just very. The probability is high, so you just have to ride smart. But with that being said, enough of the morbid stuff. We going back, we're going to find some magic gusts and we're going to stay alive, and that's it.

[Adrian]

Look at the other disasters from there. Can you remember Lorenzo's situation on Cabrinha Twice? Man, that was so hectic.

[Ben]

That's crazy to see the king of.

[Adrian]

The air as well.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Yeah, that happened.

[Ben]

Lukas.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Kites ended up in the cable park, but thankfully, that's just a challenge.

[Ben]

Every time we go there, something crazy happens. Kites getting whipped off off the beach.

[Jason Vanderspade]

And we had about five kite explosions last year on the beach.

[Ben]

I remember one year, I remember, like, people's chicken loops were just exploding under the pressure. It was just like blowing out. Every time I go there, I always have massive respect for the ladies. Actually, my respect for the ladies goes through the roof. I expect the guys to ride in that. But when the girls go out, it's really like, oh, man, these. These girls are. They deserve to be paid a lot more money. These girls deserve everything they get because what they're doing is. Is pretty impressive. The 12 girls that compete in that they're the only 12 girls on earth who would go out and ride that thing. Not a single other person would go out.

[Adrian]

And why. But why is it so impressive to.

[Ben]

You compared to that the girls have wanted. I've always said Mike McDonald is one of the most important guys in Big Air. He, he just gave us this amazing sort of factory to produce this young talent. But when Mike had the, the girls, he always sent the girls out in the marginal conditions because that's just what he did and that's just the way it was. But we've stepped up the game and the girls are going out in the same conditions for sure. The girls do go out in when it's a bit lighter. But I remember the times when I've seen those girls out there. There's that famous photo, Natalie body surfing, body body surfing, body dragging. She's got a kite up at 12. Actually, as you know, personally you wouldn't know. We know it because of the photo. The water is completely white around her.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Well, I mean that must be terrible.

[Adrian]

But why is it so impressive for you? Answer my question.

[Ben]

They're standing up and doing what they said they wanted to. When everyone, the whole industry said you can't do it.

[Jason Vanderspade]

For me, from my perspective, if you take gender completely out of this, right, let's look at all of us as kiteboarders. You look at the level of the girls and they are pushing, they're doing all wonderful things, but they're not of the same level and of the same experience as some of the guys. Correct. So if you just look purely at level, the fact that they are willing and want to guards in these conditions, regardless of whether they're women or men or whatever they are, they are kiteboarders of a certain level and they want to go out in 60 knots. When I myself a 85 kilo kiter kind of for 21 years couldn't even hold a 6. I couldn't even hold a 6. And they were vouching to go compete in this. So I think that is what is impressive with the females, to be honest, just their willingness to, to want to go and compete. And they're not of a crazy high level with crazy amounts of experience yet. And they want this, which is the cool part to me, I think that's what's impressive, to be honest, is what.

[Adrian]

These two just said. Does it stink of misogyny?

[Pete]

Misogyny?

[Adrian]

No. I'm asking Pete whether it does as.

[Pete]

A couple of hints perhaps, but I guess it's the kind of can the girls do it as opposed to, you know, why can't they do it?

[Jason Vanderspade]

Doesn't mean that. Just the issue though, because if I'm talking about. And I'm taking gender completely out of it and I'm looking purely at skill level.

[Adrian]

Yeah, but you can't take gender out.

[Jason Vanderspade]

But you can take gender because they, it's. We're looking at a sport that they're doing and then we're looking at the conditions that they want to perform in. You yourself can do a lay back roll, right? You can't. Can you do a kite loop? Exactly. Okay, so in lords of tram 20, or when was it, 20, 22, there were some women in there that could just do straight kite loops, for example, and they were out there in 55 knots. So regardless of gender, they still want to guard in these conditions and try big air tricks, which is terrifying on its own. And to me that's what's impressive, that they're fighting to compete in the stronger wind.

[Adrian]

You said this though. Yes, so. But the logic of that argument, opinion, does it, does it stand up?

[Pete]

I think no, to some extent it has some merit. I think, I think it's.

[Jason Vanderspade]

When I was of that skill level, they said that they are now when they would not do it, I wouldn't have gone out. I'm talking from experience, even me, like I'm in these conditions, I'm still terrified. There's no bravado there. I'm. I'm shitting myself. I was talking to Hugo before my heat and we were literally saying we are terrified. It is terrifying. And I've got a lot more experience and ability to do the tricks I want to do and wait and wait. But that's just, it's purely based on the fact that they want to do this. It's impressive.

[Ben]

Is Lords of Tram the windiest event.

[Jason Vanderspade]

We have now before it's the most violence.

[Ben]

Is it just because the structure where the wind rushes down those mountains across and just hits that spot, it just.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Feels like the wind is just blowing, boxing in a guy. There's no constant pull, there's no just. It's not. It is so violent and so powerful, it's unbelievable.

[Ben]

You spoke about winter winds being more gusty rather than a thermal. These trana winds, they are quite gusty. Right. There's big holes in them because it can, I mean, we've been there, it can be 15 knots and everyone's waiting and then just. You can look behind you, you just see this wall of water coming and then it's like, oh, hold on.

[Jason Vanderspade]

It comes through in schools. It's running off the mountain. And the way that you do your tricks at Lords of Tram is so different to everywhere else, because everywhere else you kind of feel a gust. And you know if the gust goes away, there's still some wind behind it that's going to keep you up. Lords of Tram, you're fully reliant on the gust to get you up and get you down safely. Because as soon as that gust goes away, there's nothing. Yeah, it's just. It's so different. You're riding for the gusts and you're hoping that the gust stays there until you land.

[Ben]

Would it be good to remove sequence riding then? Because I always find in the sequence it's always tough because there's always guys upset where you get the gust. I don't get the gas, you get the gust. I don't get the gust. And people can get really pissed about that. Do you think it's too dangerous to do a 12 minute heat?

[Jason Vanderspade]

You can't. If there's a spot with one takeoff spot, you can't just have a free fall. It'll be chaos.

[Ben]

They do that in Tarifa.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Yeah, but Tarifa is still different. The thing with Lords, the thing was France. Lords of Tram, there's one takeoff spot you can't take off before because there's rocks on the takeoff spots and there's no. There's no clean gust. The spot where you take off at France is about. No less like 10 meters, where the gusts are clean. Don't know why. If you take off anywhere else, there's such a high chance that something's going to go wrong. So it's a very, very small spot. And if you're not controlling the situation, the safety gets out of hand. You have to.

[Adrian]

It's a smaller spot than Tarifa.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Yeah.

[Adrian]

Okay.

[Jason Vanderspade]

The main spot, the takeoff spot, you're taking off like in this room.

[Ben]

What about to the right? When guys run up to this sort of creek that cuts through. Is that okay? Because, I mean, Andre often hits that way.

[Jason Vanderspade]

You get really good magic ghosts. It's more gusty, but you get more lofty gusts that come through for sure. It's violent, it's scary.

[Adrian]

So this afternoon we're gonna sit, we're gonna go to Jesse's kite school. We're gonna sit and we're gonna talk about what we're gonna try and do. No one has made a kite video like this before.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Oh, God.

[Adrian]

Yeah. No one has wanted a kite Video like this before as well.

[Ben]

Wanted to make or ever done.

[Pete]

Not both, I'll say. Nor they want.

[Jason Vanderspade]

So is this what the people need?

[Adrian]

Absolutely. They need it.

[Jason Vanderspade]

They don't realize it.

[Ben]

There's a bunch of tigers in the zoo. We're feeding them meat for this one. And on the same day this podcast came out, episode four and the finale of the blank kite test is out. Featuring Sam Light, which is a 12 meter blank kite test, which was super interesting to film and has proved to be, as you said at the start, a really interesting series. And we speak so much about Big Earth and we forget about free ride. Let's be honest, 80% of the market is free ride, right? So it's very interesting and if you haven't been watching that, definitely go check it out. Because Sam has a lot of experience and the insights he give gives about the kites is. Is actually second to none. And he's also doing different stuff. He's doing freestyle, he's doing some big air, he's riding free ride, he's foiling. And that's what free ride kite's all about.

[Jason Vanderspade]

When's a portrait kite going to chuck out a blank wing test?

[Adrian]

Never.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Right on the topic, shall we end it?

[Adrian]

Winging? Yeah, winging. I mean, if we were gonna. If we were at all interested in winging, we would have started that a long time ago, I think, just not.

[Jason Vanderspade]

So it would be hard to make a fulfilling piece of content about winging. About winging. Four episodes.

[Ben]

Also, the athletes are too close to the wing. You know, the good thing with the blank kite test, at all times, the kite is 22 meters away from finishes, sniffing. If someone's hands on the wing, they're like, oh, I know this bloody client.

[Jason Vanderspade]

Smell the thing.

[Ben]

Wing. So exactly the eve of starting this project, how are you feeling? Because I know you've been. This is the third one you've done and you know, superstar. I think the first one you were under a lot of pressure. The second one you had the accident. Are you looking forward to this project?

[Pete]

I'm really looking forward to it. I'm feeling quite rusty. I haven't been on the water very much. As I said at the beginning of this podcast in the last six months, but just lovely to be out here with the boys, really, you know, what a cool place. Seeing Jetta's home spot, you know, chatting nonsense.

[Adrian]

It's been a lot of that already.

[Pete]

Getting out in the sun, I mean, it's just. I'm very excited. I think we'll see if that excitement persists through the big reveal as to what we're actually going to Never been.

[Ben]

Seen, never been done. Just remember that it'll be part of.

[Adrian]

History There's a reason why on that note, take to us always. We'll see you in the next one. Goodbye.