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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the kitesurf 365 podcast.
- [00:04]
B
Welcome back to the show. I hope you all had a great weekend. Today I'm joined by Leonardo casadi. At just 16 years of age, Leo is already one of the best kiters in the world. As the fleet heads to Mykonos, it feels like he's in a perfect opportunity to potentially capture his first world title. Whether it's twin tip foil or strapless man, he's a serious threat in any competition. Don't forget to follow me at kaitsuya365 for all the latest episodes. Ladies and gentlemen, let's Leonardo Casati. Leo, how are you doing, brother? Good to see you.
- [00:43]
A
Good to see you, man. How are you?
- [00:45]
B
Yeah, doing good, man. Hey dude, how busy is Tarifa these days with this wind? I mean, how do you pro riders even handle all those people?
- [00:53]
A
Yeah, man, I'm here in Tarifa in these days, like one way full of wind, you know, we are training here with the boys, with Shafar, my brother Parker. Like, the conditions are really epic, you know, like, I don't know, like 14 hours every day with really good kickers.
- [01:14]
B
So yeah, because when I'm looking at those videos, there's so many riders in, in Balnearia and Balneario is so small. How does that work when you've got 20, 30 guys and they're all trying to kite?
- [01:25]
A
Yeah, man. I mean in these days, like I think it was one of the time I saw Tarifa with more people, you know, and yeah, it's actually like really hard also like for us that we know like how to jump because you know, the spot is small and you need to wait for your turn and then like everyone pushes you because everyone want to jump, you know, so then like there is no space anymore. So yeah, it's kind of hard. And then like a lot of people, they come in because they want to say, oh, I kite it in Balniavi, we told the poor guys, you know. And so also like this, it gets really full.
- [02:04]
B
And what happens if someone crashes, right, because you're pretty much all taking off in one spot. Is it just literally, let's just wait till that guy's out of the. Out of the box.
- [02:14]
A
Yeah, I mean, hopefully there is always someone that go get this boat. So he always go out a bit quick so the other people, they don't have to wait so much. But yeah, if someone crash, then you need to wait for him to go out because otherwise, you know, like it gets dangerous if you jump and Maybe he's downwind and, like, you land on him and then like, if. Also, if you get tangled there, it's not really, really nice, you know.
- [02:41]
B
Is Tarifa a good place to train for Mykonos? Because it is a kicker spot where Mykonos is arguably maybe a flat water spot.
- [02:49]
A
Yeah. I mean, like, in these days, it's the only place where there is wind. So, yeah, it's good training, but it's not like, really similar condition to Greece. You know, in Greece, you got a bit more gusty wind and, like, no waves. It's a bit choppy and here is like flat with some, like, perfect waves. So, yeah, I mean, it's good training to get new tricks in, but not really for, like, Greece conditions because it's a bit different.
- [03:24]
B
How many times have you been to Mykonos over the last few years?
- [03:27]
A
Actually, it's my first time that I will go there. I've never been to Mykonos. I wanted to go when my brother went there, but, yeah, I had some stuff to do and I couldn't join. But, yeah, I'm looking forward for the event.
- [03:42]
B
What did Lorenzo tell you about the spot?
- [03:44]
A
I mean, he told me that it can get really good. Like crazy. Crazy best spot in the world almost. You know, like every jump you do, you get 22nd hang time, he told me. Or you can get like, really condition, like worst condition ever. Gas you in. Like, you jump and you pull down. So, yeah, it's a bit tricky. He told me.
- [04:08]
B
I've been there a few times with Lorenzo over the years and I remember him coming off and he's like, bro, I don't even want to do loops. I just want to do straight jumps. It's so much fun, you know, because he was just going so high. It was. It was pretty awesome.
- [04:19]
A
Yeah, I mean, I guess sometimes it's. It's almost better to straight jump than to loop, you know, when it's gusty because you don't want. You don't want to really push if it's not good, win. You know, you don't want to get hurt and then maybe lose a competition. So, yeah, I think sometimes you also need to not do the crazy tricks. Also, if it's not good, win.
- [04:45]
B
Let's talk about the Lords of Tram. You got on the podium, you got third. Were you happy with that result considering it was cold, it was super flat water. Something that you don't really like.
- [04:55]
A
Yeah, I mean, I got the third, like two times in a row now. Like, this year was the Second time I got third in a row. And yeah, I mean the spot I is not my favorite spot, I would say. But yeah, I mean overall, you know, I'm happy I got third place because still a good place, you know. And now we are going to see all in Mykonos what's going to happen with the points and this. But you know, I beat. I struggle a bit to get the gas, you know, and device speed on the takeoff. So it's a bit tricky for me and I think for my brother too, it's not really the best spot for us.
- [05:36]
B
Why are you guys so much better in waves than flat water? Because you'd think flat water would just be easy to take off.
- [05:42]
A
Yeah, I mean it's not that we are not good in flat water, you know, because like tariff is flat, but it's different, you know, I think it's something that with the wind or like with the gust in France that, I don't know, maybe you cannot predict the gas. So it's something that we struggle. And for example, we go better in for example Cape Town or like wave spot because I mean from when we started kiting, we always train it with, with with waves. So we know like how to take them really good. And also like next year I will go train a bit early in barcares so like I will get better to it.
- [06:27]
B
When you look at Jamie Overbeek's takeoff, and a lot of guys have spoken to me about how much power and his takeoff in that, not just the final, but throughout the whole day, what's he doing different that you can see?
- [06:40]
A
Yeah, I mean, Jamie doing the final was something crazy, man. You know, I think he was on another level. Like he did really, really, really good tweets, you know. And like he got also perfect and like best hit ever I saw. And yeah, I think it helps you a lot to have like a more rigid board. And I think his technique on flat water, I think he's really the best, you know, knows how to like take the right speed, he knows how to take the right gas and then, you know, he perform really good tricks on that gas. And yeah, I think it's a combination of mean board, you know, and also kite.
- [07:24]
B
How much does that kite play into that for flat water takeoffs versus hitting waves? Do you think there's something in the kite as well?
- [07:33]
A
I mean, this is a really hard question, but yeah, I think for sure there is. Like you can see that the peak. Think the peak is the best kite in the waves, you know, like you Saw also Jamie in Cape Town. He was using the peak because he said that he was the best kite. And yeah, in flat water, like here in Tarifa, it works really good. And. But in France, I don't know, there is something with it that it doesn't make it work so good.
- [08:03]
B
Looking towards Mykonos, right, you're in amazing position to win a world title. I think the math is that you need to win the event and Jamie and Finn need to miss out on the final. Are you guys prepping for that? And Lorenzo's. Mathematically, it's pretty impossible for him to win real. Are you guys putting a plan in to win this event? And. And how's he going to help you win this event?
- [08:26]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's the goal, man, you know, like to win the band and yeah, I mean, Lorenzo can really help me win the event, you know, because it's like, yeah, now I think his chances to win, like, he cannot win anymore because he lost in the round three. But yeah, he can still help. Help me, you know, because if he's maybe in the round three with Finn and Jamie and maybe he knocks out Fino Jamie, then I have more chances, you know, so. Or like also in the final, we are in a final together and Jamie and Finn are in the final two and maybe Finn and Jamie needs to get like sec, second and third and they get first, so, you know, he can help me, like a bit of strategy there.
- [09:15]
B
I remember, Leo, the first time I saw you, I think it was 20, 21 full power Tarifa Pro 2. You got third place. Milan Lukic won that. I think you were like 10 or 11 years old. I remember the board being the same height as you. It's kind of crazy to look back over five years and see how you've changed as. As a rider and also as a man.
- [09:35]
A
Yeah, man, I remember that too. You know, like, my first comp was. Yeah, as you said, in Tarifa in the Pro Division 2. And I was actually 11 years old at that time and yeah, I got third place and there was. It was my first time competing with adults, you know, so. Yeah, and like with 14 OSWIND, I was like on my 5 meter, like full power, like, wouldn't hold it, you know, so it was a really good memory.
- [10:04]
B
Was Renato very strong on his planning back then when you guys went to that event or you guys went to have some fun and, you know, he's obviously built to that role as a coach.
- [10:13]
A
Yeah, I mean, of course now it's a Bit more different. But yeah, it was like, it was always fun for us. And yeah, that time we were not really like competing yet. We were just like trying to always have fun. And yeah, now, now it's a bit different, but yeah, I mean, was a really good event.
- [10:38]
B
Do you do a lot of work on your mental game and. And the mental side of kiteboarding? I know when it comes to the skills, you are one of the best pilots in the world. But how much time do you spend on the mental side of being in the right mental space when you ride and having the right mental strength when you go into these tough heats and competitions? Do you do a lot of work on that?
- [10:59]
A
Yeah, for sure, man. You know, so the. My dad famous outside and inside the water in like different exercise, like, you know, gym, like cardio and also stretching, you know, you want to be flexible also when you crash, you don't want to get injured. And yeah, also, like, as you said, on the mental side, that's really important. You know, it like help you a lot in competition. But also we have like a strategic side in, in the competition too, you know. And yeah, I mean, that's always fun because we also have like, we fix many goals. With my dad, we have like this daily, weekly, monthly and yearly goal, you know, like, for example, I say, you know, like, yearly goal is, I don't know, win quota, for example. So we really work on that with all this exercise. And also, like, it's really important the nutrition. So, like, my dad is also helping us on that. And it's really important what you eat to. For your body, you know, because it does a lot of damage if you don't eat good. So that's really what we do to work for the competitions.
- [12:24]
B
Do you feel like that as you're getting bigger and stronger, you're starting to close the gap on Lorenzo a bit because, you know, for a while Lorenzo was quite a lot larger than you. You know, you're a lot smaller, but, you know, over the last few years you've put on some more weight and you've become bigger and bigger. Do you feel like that's helping you close the gap on him?
- [12:42]
A
Yeah, man. So, yeah, actually from like two years ago, I'm. I got a bit stronger, a bit higher. Now I wait also a bit more. Not like Lorenzo, but still, like I remember I used to take one size less than him always when we were going kiting. And now I go and I always take the same size as him. And also like every, every day that we kite together, we almost jump the same height. So, yeah, I think I'm getting really close to him.
- [13:13]
B
How do you guys plan for that? Do you have moves that you like to do that Lorenzo doesn't? Do you guys have ideas? I. I know you guys have a lot of similar moves, but going into competition, you do want to be a little bit different, right? How do you differentiate yourself from Lorenzo? So the judges are seeing something that looks a little bit different.
- [13:31]
A
So, yeah, I mean, like, with Lorenzo, like, when we training together in the water, of course I have different tricks and he got also some different tricks. And that's like what we do. I do some tricks with that he don't do. He try to copy. And also me the same. If he don't do, he do a trick that I don't know how to do, I try to copy. And yeah, I mean, the competition we got. I think we got different tricks also. If you see a lot of tram. We're performing different tricks. And yeah, I think that's. That helps you to be a bit different and not to do the same tricks.
- [14:10]
B
Are you still going to ride the hydrofoil bigger this year and do the. The strapless as well?
- [14:14]
A
I remember that I started, like, when surfing when I was five. So, like, I want to be a waterman, you know, Like, I want to compete in every discipline possible. You know, like wave riding. I did one competition now in a cup of every day, and I'm gonna go to sealed for the hydrofoil comp and the strapless comp. So, yeah, that's something I'm looking forward. You know, I want. I want to become a waterman and maybe hopefully win one year in every single discipline.
- [14:44]
B
Is it difficult to win in strapless because you're up against guys that ride strapless every day, all year? They're so committed to it. Is it difficult for you to go in and compete considering that most of the time you're on a twin tip?
- [14:57]
A
I mean, it's for sure difficult, but I think it will also help me, you know, like, for example, in. In wave, like, it's a bit different, you know, you need to know how to eat the wave good, you know, like, it's a bit like surfing. You need to know how to take the right wave, you know, and because that helps, if you take a wave that is like 2 meter bigger, then, like, they will give you better score. And in a strapless, big area, I mean, I got fourth last year in SEALs, like, without training that much, because I think that's, like, quite similar to, like, to big game, you know, but like, you need also to know how to. To jump and this because you don't have the strap. So it's a bit of technique. And yeah, last year was crazy. I also beat at Pedro, you know that he became world champion. So, yeah, I mean, it's something. I think I can do it for sure.
- [15:55]
B
What about the hydrofoil Big Air? I think we all like to see that, but we don't want to see it in seven knots. Right? Seven knots is crazy. Well, what do you think the win range for hydrofoil Big Air? Because I would it if we can get Charles and Jamie and you and Hugo and your brother and everyone who loves to ride hydrofoils. I see Josh is riding hydrofoils and get them in like 20 knots or something like that. Where should the minimum be for hydrofoil? Big ear.
- [16:19]
A
Yeah. I mean, hydrofoil, you need, like, it's important that you. You really know how to use the foil, you know, and yeah, that's. I mean, I got third last. Last year I got third overall in Abu Dhabi. And yeah, I'm. I'm looking forward this year for the event in Seal that there is only gonna be one event this year. But yeah, I think would be cool that Charles come back competing. Jamie also, I don't know why he's not competing anymore in foil. And my brother Josh, I've seen a lot of really good people like training also now in Blue Lagoon with the foil. And yeah, honestly, I don't know why they're not competing. But yeah, I mean, foil, I. I do foil also because I want to have fun.
- [17:06]
B
You know, there should be a minimum win range. You know, I know hydro falls can go to but number Dhabi, when it was like seven knots, it was. It's pretty. Let's be honest. You know, I want to see it in like 15, 20 knots and. And see you guys really fly and see what you can do. Look, it doesn't have to be king of the air or megaloop wins because we have the. We have the twin tip for that. But I think hydrofoil still needs a little bit of wind. So, you know, you guys can at least loop the kites and you're not riding these big foil kites and brings a bit more excitement. And 20 knots is easy to find.
- [17:35]
A
Yeah, I think it would be better for sure to have a comp with. With 20, 25 knots. Like, for example, this, like last year in Abu Dhabi was like, literally no wind. Like, and we had to go out like on the 17 kite and like, we were barely jumping like 10 meter, so. Yeah, it's terrible.
- [17:56]
B
Hey, I want to ask you about the. The Red Bull age limit. You know, you are old enough to ride Red Bull and I've always said that if you're good enough. Do you think we should scrap the 16 year old limit for Red Bull because, you know, it affected you and Finn and Shahar. Now we've got young like Maxwell Dials coming through. Do you think we should get rid of this?
- [18:17]
A
Yeah. I mean, if you. If you think that when I was 14, in my first Lord of Tram, I won against Edgar and Mark, that they were like top riders at the moment, like I had the level to compete in the Red Bull competition, but I couldn't. And that's something like. It's something really that you don't want to happen. So I hope that like there are a lot of new talent coming now, like Niam, you know, like a guy here, you know, like a lot of these young kids coming. And I think they will have the level for sure to compete before they are 16. And yeah, I hope they will remove it soon because also, like, I got second at 16 at Kota, you know, and I could have the level to compete also before, you know, like when I was 15 or even 14, I could have competing kota, you know. But yeah, I couldn't. And as you see, like my first quarter I did, I got second place.
- [19:19]
B
Very rarely. Leonardo, do I see you look under pressure to me, but I remember at the Mega Loop, I felt like you were a little bit under pressure, you know? You know, you went for that double board off when Noam was really doing it. You went for the double lake backboard off. You sort of like started to ride like you were trying to find scores and you didn't have that flow on. Do you think that was just because it was the pressure of that first big event that you've been in?
- [19:42]
A
Nah, boy. I don't have pressure now. Honestly. Honestly. You know, we train with my dad and you know, we train to try to manage this emotion, you know, so that's why I never have pressure. And also like, I struggle a bit in Mega Loop, you know, like in the it against. You know, I didn't jump for like four or five minutes because I didn't have the good gas. And yeah, that's a bit what. What happened then I tried to do some doubles, you know, like to switch a bit to try to do something different to see if it they were gonna score. But yeah, didn't really got the. The height and yeah, I mean, anyway, it was like fun experience for me. You know, like you, you learn way more from, from loses than wins.
- [20:35]
B
Do you like that single trick format? I mean, you and your brother, you know, you guys have such a big bag of tricks. You know, all the rotations, all the kite movements. Do you like having an event where it is just a single trick?
- [20:49]
A
I mean, not really because it's like, I think for me, my opinion, I think it's blocking a bit, you know, the evolution of the tricks because like almost everyone can win the Mega Loop because like you just need to get one ghast. You go 5 meter higher than the other guys and they just give you better score. And if instead there were like two or three tricks counting, then was a bit more that the one that rides the best gonna win, you know, not the one that gets the gas. So I hope they will change this in the future.
- [21:26]
B
What about 18 meters? Did you like the 18 meter line length?
- [21:29]
A
Yeah, I mean I tried a few times before and it was okay. I mean the kite goes definitely more low than 22. So if that's what they want to see more like Megalop is an extreme competition. So I think that's perfect. If they want to, they want to look extreme. I think that's really good.
- [21:50]
B
Are you guys going to try get down to Mykonos a bit earlier and get some time in there? Because I mean, it's such a big event for you. There's a lot on the line. There's a lot of pressure obviously to, to win a world championship would be absolutely incredible. Especially like one year after your brother, your brother did it, which I think never been done in the sport. Are you going to try get down there if you can see a forec and, and get a little bit of training in or are you just going to go there and just go to work?
- [22:16]
A
No, yeah, for sure, man. I want to go as soon as possible. As soon as there is wind, you know, want to go there, train, because I've never kited there and I want to get used to the spot, you know, I want to know where to jump. Like I want to know how to get the right takeoff and yeah, so as soon as there is wind, now there is no wind, but as soon there is wind, I will go.
- [22:39]
B
This is a short event window. I mean it's a little bit worrying, you know, I mean they need at least two days to do this event.
- [22:46]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean like the forecast doesn't look so good. Like a lot of people told Me that last year in May, like end of May, beginning of June, there was already like 14 hours every day and like this year like there was no, no wind at all. Like also I think there is something going on with. I think it's called Super Nino and it's like something blocking the wind, you know, everywhere. So like you can see that there is no wind. And also like I think it's not really like it's six days like one week I think of wind and like they need to be lucky to finish the event as you said.
- [23:30]
B
Yeah, I mean dude, it's, it's a very, very tight schedule. I mean I would, it would be, it'll be super sad if we, we went there and that we didn't get the conditions off and it would be super sad if they sent the riders out in marginal conditions. That the other thing as well, right? What last thing you need is to be riding up against guys on. On Sonics or something, you know?
- [23:48]
A
Yeah, for sure. You know. Now you don't want that to happen to like compete in 20 knots and then like the guys that are foil kite, they go out and they just win because you know, because if there are 20 knots, the guys that use foil kite, they're going to win. And like imagine also like if there is no wind like 10 knots then are they going to like postpone the event one month later or they're just going to crown the world champion in one stop, you know, it's something you don't want that happen.
- [24:19]
B
I don't know, Leo. I wish I knew the answer to that, mate. Have you had a chance to ride many foil kites? I think I seen you riding some foil kites before and I'm talking about as a training tool. I know you'd never ride it in competition. And what's your thoughts on using foil kites for training?
- [24:35]
A
Yeah, I mean foil kites, I think they really like help you improve. I mean it's different, it's different between Pumpkite, you know, it's a bit slower, you need to like a bit know how to use it. But yeah, you know, like it helps you a bit like in light wind. Like I don't know with 50 knots it really helps you to train your a style trick, you know. And like for sure I never use the foil kite in competition because if not then like I don't want it to become a, a style competition, you know. Because if you go on the foil kite then it will become more and more hairstyle competition and like what we Want to see it's big game. So that's why I don't use polycite in the comp.
- [25:25]
B
Well, we're getting close to airstyle, especially with these board flips and, you know, throwing the board into the wind. And I know you're a big proponent of that. Is this just. Are we getting a bit crazy with these board flips? Are we. Are we pushing it too far?
- [25:37]
A
I mean, I'm always trying to. To push new tricks, you know, like osmosis flip with, like. And then, like, also normal flips with, like, tweaks, rotation. So it's something that I'm trying to improve, you know, because I think that's what. What judges also want to see right now. You know, they want to see, like, you doing crazy, like, throwing the board with crazy flip. And, you know, sometimes, like, you want to do these flips, but, you know, you don't want to lose a kite angle, too, you know, because otherwise it become just a game of, like, fleece and these. But then, like, your kite angle, like, goes totally away. Like, you can do, like, five, please. But then you loop the kite super late. And, you know, I really don't want to do this because I don't think it's what we want to see. It's not, like, as extreme as it was before with the kite angle. I think if you get the right kite angle with the right fleece, I think that's the best. The perfect solution.
- [26:48]
B
Can you do your flips with both hands? Because I know a lot of guys in recent years have been strengthening up their left hand for the board offs and the flips and the. And the rotations. Is that something you've worked on as well, to be able to do that with both hands?
- [27:00]
A
Yeah, for sure. You know, I think I'm really good with both hand. Like, I know how to do double flip with both hand. And that's because, you know, with my dad, we trained since we were young on both sides, so that really helped us. And that's also help you a lot, like, in competition, because if you go, like, for a trick, you can, like, do contrap on the same side, and that really help you for. For the trick, you know? And also, like, he wanted us to. To be good on both side, you know, my dad. So that's why we made the first and second place in kota because we jumped in both sides, me and my brother. You see us, we could jump in both sides to get that impression. Score higher.
- [27:49]
B
Well, look, Leo, really, really wish you the best of luck in Mykonos, man. I'd love to see you become a world champion like your brother. If it's not this year, it's definitely going to happen, man. Because I mean, at 16 years old, you're still a massive talent. Thanks for coming on the show, buddy. And I'll see you in Mykonos in a few weeks, man.
- [28:06]
A
Yeah, man, thanks for you. See you, Mykonos.
- [28:09]
B
Hey guys, I hope you enjoyed that episode. Don't forget, if you want to support the show, the easiest way is to support us for free. Rate beyond Spotify, share them in your local WhatsApp or kite surfing groups, or just simply tell your mates. If you want to support us more regularly, head over to portraitkite.com and check out all the madness there. If you don't know what Portrait is, Portrait is an independent media company trying to tell the stories of kiteboarding the way we believe they should. These projects are funded by people just like you. And if you believe in what we do and you want to support, head over to portraitkite.com the podcast guys will always be free, so you don't need to worry about that. If you want to find more episodes just like this one, use the search button@kiteserv365.com to search your favorite writer or topic. And we're going to be back this Thursday for the Megapod.