Pippa Van Ursul (2:16)

Got it noted. I also learned pink. I need a new laptop sponsored by you guys. Microphone sponsored by you guys, it's funny.

Colin (2:28)

Because about 10 minutes ago, Pippa's screen froze and Adrian just goes, look at this Dutch arrogance. Blonde, blue eyed, looking down at us, like sneering at us, nose in the.

Adrian (2:46)

Air, looking down their nose. It was like this.

Colin (2:52)

So Peppa, you've, you've had a big change. You've announced you've left Duotone. You haven't announced where you're going. But I think that's going to happen.

Pippa Van Ursul (3:01)

Soon.

Colin (3:02)

Not now.

Pippa Van Ursul (3:05)

Well, I am riding the new kite, which I'm very excited about and I'm now like literally today I'm shooting. So we've done already some shooting days for the announcement video and then it depends of my editor, my sister, how fast she will make it happen and then I post it.

Adrian (3:26)

Pips, where are you riding the kite? Because you know, you ride that kite in Blouberg. I'm sure every single person's coming up to you saying what's going on? Are you, are you trying to be a little bit smart and riding in Big Bay or riding at different locations to protect that information? Because obviously you want to have a good pop here. Right? You want people to be excited about it.

Pippa Van Ursul (3:43)

Yeah. So it's, it's impossible to, to, to really keep a secret here. But sometimes I just grab other brands in my hand so people get confused but then they still don't know. Like I just say I'm testing kites and. But surely some people know already. But that's like you can't really go around that in, especially not in Cape Town.

Colin (4:06)

Nice. And Pippa, was the change of kite, was that the driving force behind this change from Duotone to X brand to X brands?

Pippa Van Ursul (4:18)

Not, not just that. I think, I think I've been already for eight years, eight years on Duotone. And I think in the beginning like it was the, like the perfect decision for me. But at some point, like sometimes you just also feel that when you're that long with a brand, you kind of want to change a bit. And maybe visions like they, they grow out of each other and I've had an amazing time with you and they've been super good to me. Also when I was injured, like still being there, supporting me. So nothing bad to say about that, but I now I just have other ideas in my head where I want to go to. And then there was this brand that the vision just aligns perfectly because it's not just about kites. Obviously when I want to change to another, another brand, I really look into all aspects. The gear needs to be good, it needs to be innovative and I need to feel really good within a team because it's. For me, it's a lot about feeling as well. If I feel good within a brand, then I know everything just works better.

Adrian (5:30)

Pippa, what's the process to changing brands? I asked the same question to Jason and he. He actually gave me quite an interesting answer. So I'd be interested to know what your process is to changing brands. Do you chase brands? Do brands chase you? How does that sort of work? I guess when, like Jason said, when he announced he was leaving Air Rush, he had a lot more brands reach out to them. Have you had that same sort of situation where brands reached out to you when you were leaving Duotone and so said, hey, would you ride for us?

Pippa Van Ursul (5:58)

Yeah. It's kind of funny because I think sometimes the brands don't really see maybe possibility because I'm for eight years with Duotone, so I think they. They think you're like stuck, you know, or like not not being a possibility. And now that you announced that you're leaving, it opens a door for. For some brands, but then it's kind of already too late. But for me, I haven't really. Well, I had already some conversations in the past, but then it just. I didn't feel like leaving yet as well. And now it's just that I've had really good conversations with a certain brand, like at several. And then I was just, okay, this is the right time. I feel like I can. I'm ready for a change and that brand is going into the direction I want to, so. But it's hard to openly speak about it and not say too much because if I speak about the philosophy of me and, and of the brand, then I think it's obvious where. Where I'm going to.

Colin (7:11)

Pippa, you are someone that loved the Duotone Evo D lab. The first generation of it, the 2023 version, you really gelled with that kite. You won lots of tram on that kite and it fitted for you. What about that kite worked? And what in these new kites that you've been trying, have you been searching for? And is it different for you as a. As a woman and as a lighter rider? Are you looking for different attributes and different specs?

Pippa Van Ursul (7:49)

Yeah, definitely. I think it's also funny that you say it because I think a lot of people don't realize that is that most kites are built on a lot heavier people. I'm 60 kilos and majority of the guys is 85. So the testers are mostly guys and they work with a designer. So for me to. When I loop, it's really hard to get under the kite because I'm so much lighter. So I go behind it when I loop. And that's also what I struggled a lot with going to, for example, the Rebel D Lip. It's in a. It's an incredible kite as well. And if you see Andrea going on, it works super good for him. But for me it was. I struggled so much to. To also get the same like energy from the pop in the kite because I felt like I didn't have enough weight to match my energy with the kites. I felt like the kite was too aggressive. So then I felt the kite was controlling me instead of I was controlling the kite. And with the Evil D Lab it was. Why it works so well is that is I could bring it above my head better than the Rebel, for example. And which is really important because if it stays in front of you and you loop, you only gain forward speeds and not vertical lift. But what I also struggled with sometimes with the Evo D Lab is because it is Alula. So when the wind got like 25 plus already then I thought it was quite strong for me because I'm lighter. And so in. In light wind, I was the best on these kites. And I always kind of like the lighter wind, big air sessions because then the kite was perfectly matching to me. But as soon as it got stronger, I struggled a lot to hold down the power. And so in my decision to. To go to another brand, what I really need is a kite that works for me in light wind and a guide that works for me is strong and can maybe be two different. Let's say it doesn't have to be. How do you say it? One type of kite. It can be two types, but I need a brand to work with that has these options and that is also willing to. Yeah, listen to feedback of. Of a lighter rider. It doesn't need to be a woman, but it can also be a kid. And that is what I had most in the beginning conversations as well. Like do you realize that it is. Most of the kites are designed for men? Because I also feel like we can do certain changes in the chicken loop. The chicken loop can be a lot smaller because my arms are shorter than guys arms as well. So I want the bar to be closer to me. I need a kite that is. Yeah, works basically because that's also the thing. Like if a guy needs, for example, eight or a nine, it is tested in a very different wind strength than when I use an 8 and a 9. So these are the conversations that I had, and I match really well with the philosophy of the designers and with the rest of the team. So I am super confident that, yeah, we're gonna be able to change that. And it doesn't need to be a complete different kite. It can be. It can also be small changes in, like, a chicken loop size in the bridles, in everything. And I hope to really explain also to other, like, lighter riders, kids or women, what to do to make these small adjustments to make a kite work so much better for them. Because I think a lot of lighter riders are actually not even realizing that it can be so much easier. And I also think the harness is a big problem for me. I've actually tested the past two weeks some harnesses, and the smallest size of women or men's harnesses are just too big for me. Like, it's. It's too big on my back. So I would also like to. To make changes in that.

Adrian (12:07)

But going back to the top of that question, why the 2023 kite? Because I still see Mika riding that kite, you know, is it. Is that the kite that was perfect for. For you and her and the ladies, you know, because it seems to be the kite that if you had the choice, you would ride over the newer stuff.

Pippa Van Ursul (12:23)

Yeah. So, yeah, we have decided to pick that one over. Over the newer stuff. But that is. It is because we have quite specific weights and Mika and I are very similar weights. And you can see the guys are all riding the new sizes, you know, so for them, it works really well. It's not only been the preference, but it also been low on stock. So it was also harder to get all the smaller sizes from the new brand. So basically I just tested from the new brand that I'm going to.

Colin (13:00)

As a female in the big air scene, you're able to talk about the men's fleet without causing any big dramas. Okay. When we have here on. He can't exactly go and slag off Lorenzo, can he? It's just not going to happen. But you, Pippa, can say whatever you please. So let's talk about the upcoming year. Who do you think is going to win the majority of the competitions? And what.

Pippa Van Ursul (13:32)

I think there's going to be three riders that are going to be really good. I think it's Lorenzo. He is just a machine. As you see him training, you see him in competitions, he almost doesn't crash. He is very calculated. And also what you see, with Red Bull, King of the Air, like, they change the rules one day, be or not Chase, they just announce some changes in the judging criteria. He sits down with his dad and brother, and they figure it out as best as any other writer. So I think Lorenzo and I think Leonardo, they're going to be insane. And. But I also think Finn. I don't understand why Finn was not in. In Kota. I'm training with him now, and for me, he's been the most impressive rider from everyone. So. Yeah, like. But that's also. Yeah, I've. I've seen him train. It's just. It's just insane. Like, he goes on a. I remember because he's a insane freestyler as well, but he does bigger. He does para wing, he does winging, he does foiling. He does everything. And I remember he saw a video of Charles doing this tornado on the foil, which is. It's already really hard. Like, I've heard Charles talking about it, that it's impossible because the board is also really heavy and it's quite tough for his shoulder. Finn looks at the video. Next day, he tries it, lands it in two tries, you know, And I've seen him doing this with some other tricks as well. He just looks at it and then he's like, okay, I got it. And then he goes on the water and does it in such a short amount of time. And I also think that he has the. He is the only rider, I would say, that is at the highest level freestyle already and is able to get onto the highest level of big air. And I don't see that with another rider. I mean, we had Liam, obviously, he was insane freestyle and bigger, but I think Finn is even next level.

Adrian (15:45)

You started that conversation by talking about the judging at King of the Air. And I've always worried that the judges can sort of shift the way the sports written. Let's talk about the doubles. The judges stopped scoring the doubles as high, and the guy sort of got away with that. I don't like the fact that the judges are dictating the direction of the sport. I want the writers to push the sport the way they want to go. If Lorenzo wants to do doubles and Andre wants to do the big singles, which I seriously think gets a lot more pop from the crowd. Let them do that. But the judges. I do. Do you. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, the judges have got too many fingers in the pie for my liking. And also, you got to understand is that across the big five, which is the two World Championship, the King of the Air, the Mega Loop and Cold Hawaii. We've got three of them with one judging style and two of them with another judging style. So we are up against different styles and different sort of makeups the whole time.

Pippa Van Ursul (16:35)

Yeah. But on the other hand, yeah, I think the judges like to control it. But on the other hand, which writers are standing out? I think the writers are standing out. Like, look at Andrea. He does. He always does what he wants to do. He doesn't give shit. And I think that is very important is to always stay true to your own style. Because if you're going to copy someone else that were just going to work on what the judges want to see, it's not. You don't see that authentic style going through. And I think that's why Andrea is so good and why Lorenzo. I think Lorenzo's playing a bit more the rules of the judges, let's say. But he has his own style and he sticks to that and then he changes it up a little bit. But I do think that it's always working best when an athlete stays true to what, what they want to push.

Colin (17:30)

My next question is about Mika, who we spoke about earlier.

Pippa Van Ursul (17:38)

How good is she?

Colin (17:39)

Left foot forward now.

Pippa Van Ursul (17:41)

She's improving fast, like she is. I have seen her now, what was it, one week training in Cape Town? Well, she has been training it more to the left, but Jesus, like the, the back rotations with tic tac with flips. It's. It's really cool to watch and it also, I think it fires up the rest. I've been training a little bit to the, to the left as well, but it's. It's just so nice to use those kickers. And I think Mika can learn quick. She also has all these backgrounds from freestyle and the air awareness she has is. It's incredible.

Adrian (18:27)

That video she put out last week, middle of last week, I kind of feel like it's a bit of a. Like it's a bit of a you to the ladies, like, hey, you guys might be winning the titles, but just letting you guys know that, you know, I'm the real queen here. And you can even see the comments. I mean, look at the comments. Like, Franchesa's like, hey, slow down. You know, easy on the, on the rotations and the board offs.

Pippa Van Ursul (18:46)

But, yeah, leave some for us.

Adrian (18:48)

Yeah, I, I wish that she had. I wish she had that motivation to do that in the comps, you know, but maybe she doesn't have anything to.

Pippa Van Ursul (18:56)

Prove, but, but she doesn't want to do it. I think, I think Mika is a person that she just competes when she knows she wins. And like in this King of the Air, I for sure she would have done amazing. But the judges want to see people going on the waves. Like you saw it with me too. Like I struggle a lot going on the inside and you miss. I could do a triple back, but I don't score. And that was to the right. Well, even not other people doing added rotations in the, in the, in the girls march. But you need to show that, that you can use the waves, the left foot forward kickers. And I think Mika wasn't ready at that time. She had a lot of like back injuries. So I don't think that she is pulling out to just not wanting to compete. I think if she would feel that she could win and that her back was good, she would definitely be there. But I just, I do think that she only wants to compete when she can win. And if she's like, okay, I cannot win, I'm not going to compete. I also think it's super hard when you're, you're eight time world champion. How old is she? 21. 20. That so from a young age you're used to always win. So now if she shows up at the competition, like let's say Megaloop, I do not think that she could have won it last year. So I think it's, then it's maybe she is not willing to even learn that, you know, to be, to lose and fair enough as well. She's been competing for so long. I think it's, it's fine to not have to do every competition and maybe it's a smart way to do as well. Like sometimes I could also be like, oh, I need to be in every single competition. I need to be ready for this, this, this. I want to do the best I can. But you lose a lot of energy and time into that and you could also just train, be pulling out amazing training trips and tricks and then you're way stronger in the competition. Because I did that with my knee injury. I was out for a year physically on the water and then I took another year to just train tricks. I come at Lords of Tremor and I win it. And I think she is the only one that is approaching it a bit like that in girls. She just coach when she feels like it and she just competes when she feels like it. And I think I can learn a lot from that too because sometimes it's just my mind that is telling me, you have to train, you have to compete, and sometimes you just need to go a lot more by feeling. And I think Mika's very good at that.

Colin (21:44)

And what was it that led you to learn that about yourself? What happened in the past year or so that got you to this point?

Pippa Van Ursul (21:54)

I think also because Micah didn't compete that much the past two years, that's with like, there was. I felt more pressure on me and it's not necessarily that they have been telling me certain things, but it's just a feeling that I got like, oh, so normally I was a bit in her shadow within the Duotone team and now I need to represent the brand and I'm always a person that I put enough pressure on myself, I don't need it from anyone else because I want to do my best, you know, But I think because of this extra pressure that I felt then, it's working against me a lot. Like, physically, my, my body wasn't. I felt like healing as quick and it was just, I. I had so many forced thoughts, as in, oh, I. I need to gain weight to be. To be able to go in stronger winds, but my body wasn't liking that so much. And then I thought, okay, I just need to be as much time in the water and I need this and I need that. And at some point my body was just like you. I want rest. And that's what happens. And that's where you sit still with your brain because then you cannot do all these activities. And that's where I realized, okay, I need to change. I need to listen a lot more to my intuition because when I was young, I always had this belief no matter what, and I just listened to myself. And then as you become an athlete, you get more people around you and with. They mean the best for you. You know, like, I, I trust everyone in, in my team and my surrounding that they want best for me. But it also confused me a lot because I can sometimes listen to someone and just believe that, but I know my body best as well and I know sometimes what I need. But then I thought, oh, someone is telling me to do it this way, so I will just listen to that person and then it's going to work out. And I think that's what happens with when you become like a bigger athlete. You're going to have a team around you, you're going to have help, but you also as an athlete need to have the space to listen to yourself and not only make the athlete in you decide because there's Pippa and there's an athlete and the athlete is inside of me. But it's not just the athletes. And I think I let a lot of decision be based on what was good for the athlete part, but not necessarily good for me. So I just needed to find a balance.

Colin (24:50)

What lie did you believe about yourself that meant that you did lean harder on the advice of other people and maybe not trust in your own intuition as much?

Pippa Van Ursul (25:01)

I think because I got some injuries in the past and when you're doing rehab, you just listen to someone that says this, this is going to be good exercise. Don't do this, don't do that. And then I was in that for like one, half, two years. So then your own trust in your own body and decisions, you put them aside a bit. And I did that even when I was out of my injuries. I was still then like, oh, that's what worked for my injury part. So I'm going to continue doing that. And I think I didn't really realize at the start that I was doing that, but then I just stood on the water, do my warming up and I feel super fatigued and I don't know why. And it's, I think it's just because all these small decisions that, that I didn't listen to my body. If I just sit still for 10 minutes and feel like, oh, do I feel actually good? No, I don't. So I don't go Kaiden or I don't train now. I also pushed, I would say the, the personal things aside, like, I thought there was no importance in doing the fun stuff anymore because I was so like, tunnel vision on, I want to become the best athletes I can be. And I, and I still want that. But I just had this vision of I, I need to be world champion, I need to have this title and this, and then I would feel, feel fulfilled or like, then I have success. And I think that's the wrong way to go in it because I couldn't enjoy where I was at the moment. And that sounds maybe cliche, but it is like that. And I really needed to learn to be just in the moment and not only look at the past or the future, because that's what I did.

Colin (26:48)

A lot thoughts on the men's fleet and maybe give us an example of someone who you think does, does that well and, and someone, an example of someone who doesn't do that well.

Pippa Van Ursul (27:00)

It's always hard to, to look from the outside, I think, because, you know, maybe some people look at me and they think, oh, she's always like, good and everything. But then, like, well, I spent now, like, a lot of time with Luca. He's my housemate. And I think that, like, I've had, like, quite a lot of chats with him about this as well. And I think that he's. He's having that really good balance, but it's just because I know him really well. But maybe I look at another person, I think they have their shit sorted out, but they don't on the background, you know. So, yeah, Luca, for me is. Is a good example of having. Having that balance. And he. He is enjoying life a lot. Like, he's doing a lot of other activities, spending time with his friends and family. And I think that's what I'm also doing a lot more now to. To make room and space for. For Pippa in general. But I had a conversation with her and what I could see in the past with her as well is that I think we sometimes have a bit similar way of doing things. Like, the harder you work, the more chance we think we have to achieve what we want. And then I could feel the day I walked in at Dakota writers briefing, you always feel how everyone is feeling. And I could straight feel, Nathalie feels different. She feels a lot better and in tune with herself and her kiting. So I knew she was going to do good. And I think the biggest difference with her is that she has allowing herself a lot more and just her being her, you know, and not trying to. To maybe be a certain way or forcing herself to. To do so many things. And that opened my eyes a bit as well. I think I had that opening for myself already in April, like last year. But then seeing it with her was, for me, a good example. Okay. Yeah. It is what I see now happening, and it's. It's working out for her too, for me.

Adrian (29:19)

On the men's side, I think Steno also has a great balance. Right. He's, you know, he likes to get away from kiteboarding. He doesn't really, you know, he likes to do well. He obviously wants to, you know, he's pissed off and he doesn't do well.

Colin (29:30)

But that's new, though. That's new. He's never like that before. His stino's expectations have been raised now. Like, he was livid.

Adrian (29:40)

Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Colin (29:42)

But the previous versions of Steeno wouldn't have cared so much. He would have just, you know, he was happy, go lucky. Whereas this one, Jason Van der Spee and I walked past him and it was really light wind that day, and the conditions were shit. And Jason joked to him, he was like, you glad you out, bro? Like, as in, surely you are glad you're out. And Stino just, like, didn't laugh and just looked at us both and was like, no, I'm not glad I'm out. Like, we just completely misread the. Misread his mood.

Adrian (30:10)

But Colin Stino's happy go lucky ways was getting him to finals and semi finals. You know, I don't know if he's physically changed. He was happy go lucky, but he was getting the results, and he's always been getting the results, you know, even when he was on, when he was with Cabrino, and he sort of stepped it up again. But I'm not saying the king of the result was a bad for him. But he has that happy go lucky attitude, right? I mean, he's always good, a smile on his face, he's down. He trains when he has to train. And then look at his Instagram. You know, he's always away with Maurice doing stuff. And, you know, he's like, not just focusing on kiteboarding. And, you know, that's complete opposite to the Kasatis and Overbe, you know, who are on the water all the time.

Pippa Van Ursul (30:48)

Yeah, but his. I think his expectations change as well, is because he's been competing for long, but it's not that. He has been a lot on the podium before and now he's tasted that. And I think then your expectations change because you actually think like, oh, fuck, I am this close. Now I can maybe win, you know, so it's really hard to always keep the same attitude and the same feeling of going into competition because you're going to change. Like, the first time I competed, I was like that. I was just happy to be there and like, oh, la, la, la. I'm just gonna get my jersey on and that's it. And then, boom, I got all of a sudden third. I was like, oh, sick, I got third. But then you always want to do more. And that's why you're athletes. Like, you're always searching to improve, to get the best out of your performance. And if Stino was always, let's say five to eight, it's a very different mentality than when you've tasted that podium because then you're actually close. And then it changes, I think. And I think from when you're actually close, then you're gonna have this learning curve of not trying to change yourself too much and just keep on going. What works for you and really stay true to the person you are and then you can take the next step. Because we can look at Lorenzo. He is, yeah, he's just about competition and just on the water when it's windy. But if you were to put someone else, like, if Stina would have to do that, then that won't work for him. So with that mentality, he will not be come first. And I think that's what a lot of writers, or like, even also younger kids should remember. You're always your own person and really try to find what works for you and don't look too much at what everyone else is saying or doing. You can get inspired for sure. That's always good. But always really figure out what is your way.

Colin (33:02)

Let's talk about female kiteboarding in general. Yeah. I want to know, Pippa, now that you've changed a brand, how that felt, because you live with male providers as well, and you must know what the contracts look like and how the brands are dealing with people you're closer with. Luca Charity and Jason Van Dispel. Jason's just changed brands, obviously. Do you think the opportunities are fair towards women? Do you think they are equal? And do you think if they are not, do you think they are heading in the right trajectory or are they heading in the wrong trajectory?

Pippa Van Ursul (33:47)

That is a tough question. It is tough because the industry in general is in a difficult position. So it is hard to, let's say, say, oh, now we're all getting better contracts and it's all going super well in kiteboarding because it is harder. Everyone knows that. But in general, that's also like the conversation I had with the team I'm going to join is what I love about them, is that they have been, like, so supportive also with me because they want to push women and they want to create this equal opportunities. And that's what I find so important. But what I find a bit hard is that when I was young, I've always been in a complete boys soccer team, and I have never felt that I didn't. I had less opportunities or that I wasn't treated equally because I was in a boys team. And then when I looked at King of the Air, I was just like, I want to compete in that competition. I didn't look at if there were male or female in there. I just looked at the competition itself and I just saw myself standing in between those people, whether it was guys or girls. You know, I was like, I want to do that. And that's how I always approach the brands. Like, I've. I have never felt that, oh, I'm a female, so it's harder for me to negotiate or because I just know or knew what I'm worth. And I. I just communicate like that. I don't communicate as I'm a female. So it's going to be harder because if you go into it like, oh, it's harder for us as female. Yeah, obviously the conversation is going to be more difficult and in a less positive direction. But now I do, like, I don't see myself any difference, but I do believe that there is obviously, like, in companies and not only within kiteboarding, just in general, in the world where other people can see women in a different way, but I always believe that. I just see my chances as equal as others. But I reached out to a lot of sponsors beside the kiting industry, so I can make it work without just relying on the kite industry. And I think that's really beneficial for me. I just decided to make the vlogs because I always put myself in the shoes of a company. Why would they sponsor me? Not why would they sponsor a guy or girl, just why me? You know? And if you really think about, okay, what is beneficial for a brand, which direction do I want to go? And that's what I'm going to do. And if a brand doesn't want me, I don't. I don't care, because then I would never fit. So. But to answer your question, if we're going the right way, the brand that I'm going to be joining is pushing for it, and I'm super glad with that. So I believe we're going the right way. There's also. We have more competitions for females. We had talks with Red Bull. Like, everyone is. Is. Is. Yeah. Helping and to get us in the right direction. So I believe we have. Yeah, we're going in the good way.

Adrian (37:20)

Pippa, just let me jump in there. How do you know your worth and how do you work that out and how do you approach your brand with that? Because I think a lot of athletes do. You don't know that in the industry. I mean, you said you've gone to a lot of. Outside of the kiteboarding industry, and I think that's something that a lot of riders don't tap into enough.

Pippa Van Ursul (37:36)

Yeah, but you also have to realize that you have to be capable of quite a lot of things, I feel, because you need to kind of be everything in this industry. It's not like that you're a football player, and when you're young, you Just get put into this program where you can just focus on being an athlete. We need to focus on social media. We need to be good at business. We need to be good on the water. Like, there's so many aspects and I've been very privileged of being able to go to school when I'm young. I'm also. I like the kind of negotiation business part is my. It's my interest when I was already young. So. But if you're just interested in being an athlete for, for kiting, like there is obviously also that contracts that work for that. But you need to really find where your interests are. Like, I also like the vlogging part, you know, so that is quite beneficial for me as a. As a whole also for outside the kiting industry because then you don't only have the niche, but you also don't want to change your personality too much to be able to get contracts basically. But how do I know my worth? I think it's working also with a management a lot that I always try to surround my people that I can learn from. Because you need to put effort in it to. To be able to get to know your work because you cannot just expect, oh, I took one podium. Now I want to have this contract because it doesn't work like that. You have to put so much effort in. In everything. Like, you need to be conscious consistently in the world tour. You need to be good on social media. Like that's when your worth grows. And the more you talk with other pro riders, I think a lot of more providers get more open about their contracts and I think we should as well to help the younger generation out because I just want to get as many kids as possible in the sport and to create more opportunities for more kids to have a life that we have because it's amazing and we need to share that.

Adrian (40:02)

Pippa, you spoke about getting more opportunities for ladies. If we look at those big five events, we've got the two world championships, there's got men's and ladies. King of. There's got men's and ladies. The mega loop has men's and ladies. We've heard rumors that Cold Hawaii is going to go that way as well. Having those five major events or the big five men's and ladies fleets, is that enough for the ladies? Because honestly, I think the quality is there. I actually think the number of riders has actually dropped off in previous years before with the backall 2022 through all those years, we always have 12 ladies. Every comp we have 12 ladies at the. At the. We have 12 ladies in the GK every time, but I kind of feel like it's a bit shallow. Like, it's almost like that top echelon of girls, the top four or five have pushed away, and we can see that sort of difference in the skill level. But I feel like the level's gone up, but our number of girls who want to ride comps has actually dropped down.

Pippa Van Ursul (40:56)

I. I don't know if that. If that is the right way to say it, because I. I more believe that is the same with men. It's like it becomes quite hard when you just have a World cup and you just have the Red Bull events. Then obviously people want to compete in it, but it's a really big step. So. And that's where the buckle was so good for, is that you have these opportunity for more like to. To get into competitions. And we had that with a gta with freestyle, we had these qualifier events. So you don't have to straight be that good to be in a major event, because it also requires to be that you have money to travel, you give money to train, that you have money to compete. And that is the gap is just too big, you know, to go from training by yourself being an amateur, to boom, compete just in the World cup or Red Bull. So it would be really great if we can set up events like small events, just like local in Europe somewhere, maybe even here that you can have. But I don't know what's logistically best, but you just need those smaller, like, qualifier things.

Adrian (42:18)

The reason I say that, Pippa, is if you. And today I went back and looked at those fleets from full power and Cape Town, the backhoe fleets and all that, and it's. It's the same names we see today, but when you look at the men's fleets, that. It's a huge change from who was riding then to who's writing now. Does that mean. If you look at it that way, then I interpret it that. That we just don't have the numbers coming in from the bottom. We just don't have the young girls filling it up. It's the same. It's almost the same girls in every semifinal for the last four or five years.

Pippa Van Ursul (42:46)

Yeah. But you got to remember as well that for how long has men being able to compete in big air? So many years. It's not that I want to talk bad about that, but they have been probably doing the same kind of tricks for eight years almost. And then Yane came, changed it up so you cannot Expect women like if the amount of time that we have, we're doing Kaidlu Bordevsk now as well and obviously the guy's level is a lot higher but the guys had so many years to, to get where they are right now and it kind of took Janek to change it up, you know, and, but before that it was a lot the same, A lot of the same riders that were even from freestyle, like you had Kevin and Urine and Mark being on the top there, then boom, swapped to big air and they're on the top there as well. So they had for a long time the same names as well. So it just takes time to, for women to see other women doing it, get inspired. And those girls can be eight years right now or like let's say eight to 14. So it takes time for them to come and that is the same with the guys. Like before a Andrea Lorenzo and all these kids get inspired. It took a Jesse, a Kevin, a Mark to be there and now we're kind of in that position to, to show it for a couple of years and then all these young girls come that. But that's what my perspective is on it.

Colin (44:23)

Any young girls you want to shout out, Pippa? We know Aya Kasabova is maybe the strongest of them all. But are there any other girls that.

Adrian (44:32)

We'Re talking bigger as well at the moment primarily?

Pippa Van Ursul (44:35)

Yeah, yeah, bigger because I also, I don't even know the, the free self mates anymore. But I also know Rose from France. She's, she's writing, reading and just her mentality is really strong but she's not like as young as a, you know, like Aya is I think is in a really good position to become, to become super good. I've already seen her train like I was with her in Greece so she's going to head in the right direction for sure. And Rose is a new girl, but she is, I don't know how old is she? 23 already, but still like we need, we need as many girls so it doesn't matter the age.

Adrian (45:19)

Is age such a big thing on the girl side? Because you know, if we were sitting and Talking about a 23, 24 year old boy rider coming on and wants to get into big air, you, you'd say to him, dude, it's too late. But I think on the girl side still an option, right? I mean, yeah, definitely, I guess. Zara's 30 now. Is she 30?

Pippa Van Ursul (45:38)

Above 30 even? I think, I think definitely because you could see that, you could see that with the guys as well is that before they, the kind of, the older, the more heavy guys were always leading and now it's all these young guys because the level is like so technical as well. And it's also, can your body keep up? Because I also had conversations with Andre is like, I feel like a 40 year old already. I wake up and I have pain in my body. And so it's, it is also you want to, to have a long career and I think with the guys that's a lot harder right now than for, for women.

Adrian (46:19)

I do want to say something about Andrea. He's pretty good at looking after himself. I mean, Colin, you know, we've, we've stayed with Andrea. I mean if he, if he's around you and he's, you know, he's forever stretching, right? I mean he's on the ground stretching almost the entire day like a cat. So he knows the importance. I think if we go back a few years, he got into CrossFit and he realized, oh, this is not for me. You know, I'm just too stiff. You know, he, he does look after himself. I know a lot of people probably look at Andre and just think he's a wild man, but he's pretty good on the guy side. I mean, a lot of the guys, yeah, I felt like, you know, for many years, Colin, the guys were really into like the bodybuilding side get as big as possible and like marking these guys just like massive monsters. And then there was the move to lose weight and we had everyone cutting weight and I, I feel like we've got the, the sort of, the health and, and we've got that healthy balance now where guys are looking to stretch more, looking to be more flexible, obviously having more functional strength and, and being better athletes. Opposed to just being a bodybuilder.

Pippa Van Ursul (47:19)

Yeah, no, but I also think it's really good that it's going that direction because as you say, like, I think many people think that Andrea is just a radical guy and doesn't give a, about anything. But when you talk with him, he really cares and he, he really wants best for his body as well. But he still has, if you see the crashes that we, we all get and also like Francesca struggling with their, with their head now a lot. You don't want to get all these like double concussions and it is, man, it's, it's an extreme sport. If you, if you think about it yourself. How many times do you actually crash in daily life? Like, not that much, but we kind of sign up to be in a car crash every week, you know, so your body need to be able to handle that. And I think it's a really. You need to find the right balance between training hard enough but also training really smart.

Adrian (48:19)

I wonder, moving forward, the damage that these guys are doing on their body and, and how that will come out, because I think the freestyle guys, you know, a lot of the big names in the past, like Aaron and these guys are getting to that age where they're going to start feeling those. The wear and tear, let's call it the wear and tear on the body. You know, I think that's the, that's the best way I could say is like, you start feeling that wear and tear and it's. It's the stuff you don't know about until, you know, like, I mean, I was saying, sometimes I wake up, I can't walk, my ankle's just completely locked up and I'm like, I just slept, you know, I slept and I can't walk in the mornings. It's just crazy, you know, I mean, but that's just wear and tear from rugby over the years and just my ankle. It's just. I. I'm interested to. Because, you know, health, Health and safety is becoming such a big topic. I'm really interested to see how those athletes are over the next 10 years when they get to that age. It will be interesting to see what Andrea is like at 40 and. And those guys like 40. Well, Pippa, she is 40.

Pippa Van Ursul (49:16)

Yeah, but I. But that's also interesting to see because we don't have any pro that is at that age, you know, so we have to wait and see.

Colin (49:28)

We'll see. We'll get our Djokovic one day.

Pippa Van Ursul (49:31)

Exactly.

Adrian (49:32)

I mean, I want to say the crashes in freestyle are bigger just because you're in boots and there's a lot more whip. But other body. Is the, is the impact on the body bigger and bigger with the crashes that you're getting bigger? Because they're quite different crashes, right?

Pippa Van Ursul (49:48)

Yeah, but I think the overall impact, like when you go on freestyle sessions, never easy. When you do big air, you can have, I don't know, these just like lighter, softer landings all the time and everything goes well. But I think in general, the. Just the danger of where you put your whole body through as a whole is bigger. Like with. You can get nasty injuries with, with freestyle as well. But then it's more like you're scared of maybe getting your knees tweaked or your bones broken. But with big air, you think about more like, I would say more life threatening injuries because you hear people like passing out, getting their lungs clean, like it's, it's more those things as well.

Colin (50:39)

Pippa, you've been epic. Thank you for coming on and ironing a few things out and keeping Adrian on the old straight and narrow. That's been pretty.

Adrian (50:48)

What are you talking about, keeping me?

Colin (50:49)

Oh, I've been, I've been all for equality.

Adrian (50:52)

Excuse me. I've been one of the biggest voices in this industry for pro female voices. Is that correct, Pippa? Have I always been pro woman?

Pippa Van Ursul (51:00)

Well, there's supposed to say yes first.

Adrian (51:02)

It's supposed to say yes quickly, not leave a, not leave a five second pause before you say something.

Pippa Van Ursul (51:07)

Yeah, yeah. No, you've been, I already told you, you've been very supportive as well. When I, when I just started.

Adrian (51:13)

What about equal pay?

Pippa Van Ursul (51:15)

Is it. Is that about everything? Like prize money?

Colin (51:19)

Now he's saying prize money.

Pippa Van Ursul (51:20)

Yeah, that is a bit the thing. What I, because I also really understand the other perspective is that we have to pass less heats to, to get to a final than the guys because the guys are just more. And I, I just believe that when we can get equal prize money, maybe you can work in percentage. So the, the amount of those that are competing, you get that percentage of it. But that's the thing. Like I, I'm not really bothered. Maybe I'm not the right female talking for that, but just do it as far as possible and then I'm happy. If we get, if we are going to be able to get more women in, in competition, we need to do be paid the same.

Colin (52:07)

I think you've just contradicted yourself slightly there. So we'll probably.

Pippa Van Ursul (52:11)

No, I said if we have the right. If we have the same amount of girls competing as guys, then we need equal prize money.

Adrian (52:18)

So 18 men, 18 women, equal prize money.

Pippa Van Ursul (52:21)

Yeah. Then it's equal prize money.

Adrian (52:23)

And by the way, I want to see a mask for the ladies. I want to see a mask. The mask is awesome. I don't like this crown. You know the crown, you know the hedgehog crown that Natalie got? I don't like that. Terrible. Looks like someone just hacked it out of a bush.

Pippa Van Ursul (52:36)

I also don't like the fact that you need to say, yeah, I won women's division, King of the air. Like, it sounds crap. Queen of the air.

Colin (52:45)

Thank you for coming on. It's been good. You've. You've opened our eyes and yeah, we look forward to your announcement and we'll get, we'll get a little something from you when you do announce it as well, so people can hear. Hear how it's been for you on the podcast.

Pippa Van Ursul (53:03)

Yeah, definitely. Sorry to be too secret about it.

Colin (53:07)

You were good. You were good. Okay, Pippa, thanks very much and. But thank you to us more. So goodbye.