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- [00:00]
A
And Japan, Chippy has gone to rrd. No one. No one, I don't care what anyone says. Saw this coming. It's the biggest news in kiteboarding in a long, long time. Maybe since when, Adrian? Since Liam leaving F1.
- [00:16]
B
That was pretty big. Maybe since north changed their name to Duotone. Also huge news in the industry.
- [00:22]
A
Yeah, it's that big. Also in this episode, we hear the first part of an exclusive in depth Ralph Grossel interview, which is very timely for reasons that you will see.
- [00:39]
B
Catastrophic equipment failure.
- [00:41]
C
Going for the boogaloo double just to get the landing.
- [00:45]
B
Had a couple of strings and it was extremely dangerous. Guys, I sent the trap. And it is gold for Ellie Aldridge and gold for Great Britain. It's rrd, baby.
- [00:58]
A
Yeah. No one saw this coming, did they? No one. I don't care what people say, don't believe them. They did not. This is such. Such a surprising move.
- [01:10]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's kind of like history repeating itself, really. You know, it's like if you think back to Harlem before they signed Scott Berenstein, which was their sort of first sort of move, no one really cared about Harlem kites. RD have a bigger history in the sport, but no one's really cared about RD for a long time. Maybe RD are following Haarlem. You know, Harlem are top dogs when it comes to performance, and maybe they want to rebuild their. Rebuild the brand on back of this. You know, it's interesting. Do you think Andre has any shares in the company as well?
- [01:45]
A
As far as I know, RRD pretty wealthy. They do well in fashion. Roberto Richie Designs is the full name, and they've got this kind of Italian orange chic to them, and they just happen to make kites. And that's where kind of the soul of the brand is. But you are right, Adrian. RRD have never made a good kite.
- [02:15]
B
Actually, some of my first kites were rd. I had the addiction, if anyone remembers, that was actually like a race kite. And I had the obsession. But, man, I had RD for. For a while. Not. Not a long time. Maybe at least a season and a half. I feel like part of the family.
- [02:32]
A
I'm not sure. Well, I am sure. I am sure that RRD has never made a good big air kite. I think the freestyle kites were mid pack back in the day. This is such a big risk for someone that is at the top of competitive big air. And there's quite a strong possibility that Andrea is going to be left without the tools he needs to build.
- [03:11]
B
Yeah, but fortune favors the brave man, you know, I mean, taking risks and having a go is what it takes. I mean, maybe there's more to come out of this than we know. I mean, how crazy is that? I don't even know what Alicia's kite is. It's just rd. You know, I know every model of all the kites, but when it comes to rd, I don't even know one model. I mean, do they still make the obsession? Is that still a kite?
- [03:34]
A
So Elice Rugio, who Adrian just referred to, was their premier big air competition rider. She famously got second place to Mica in the GKA Brazil event where she rode her ass off. Elice and Andrea go back a long way. They've been friends for a long, long time. And. And Elite texted me. When I said, is this happening? She said, I cannot say. But let me just tell you, I've wanted this for a very, very long time. I think Elite would have been pivotal in this. I also think, though, and I know I've said he might be left without the tools, and I do think that's probable reality. I think that it is the rider that is more important. And I think that Andrea is a very special kiteboarder. We don't have to say what he's achieved on podiums and in competition. I think what is most impressive is his ability to innovate. Everyone now, everyone in Mykonos is an Andrea Pincipi clone. The board spins with loops. That's him. I think philosophically, RRD is a better fit for Andrea. RRD put zebra print on their kites. They are bright orange. No one likes orange. They're bright orange.
- [05:16]
B
It's not in my color, Will. You'll never see me in orange, guys.
- [05:21]
A
They speak Italian and I haven't spoken to them, but I think there's a much better chance of Andrea being, like, nourished at RRD than at the biggest kiteboarding brand in the game that do not like Risk and just want to play things safe in Duotone, which is fair enough. They're the biggest brand and have been around forever, and that's the way they do it, and they are good at it. Yeah, I think Andrea could be better placed here. What do you think?
- [05:53]
B
I like what Mica said in the last podcast. She said, look, Andrea needs a very long leash, and that's not Duotone. Duotone don't like that. They like very clean cut, short leashes. Just to use analogy, I hope RD saves some money for rope because they got a beast on the rope at the end of that rope. But he needs that long leash to be who he wants to be. I mean, do you remember being for years we said, man, we need more bad boys in this industry because we're just clean cut, good looking boys all the time. We just need guys who are bucking the trend. And the biggest superstars in the sport generally go two ways. They either clean cut or they become heels. And I, and I'm not and I mean healers and they turn to come a bad guy. I use Conor McGregor as heels, not
- [06:39]
A
as a heel turn heel.
- [06:40]
B
It's a now turn heels, a progressing turn meaning you become a bad guy, you know. But those guys became, become bigger than the sport. I use Conor McGregor as an analogy. Last time he became bigger post fighting. So I'm not.
- [06:54]
A
Why though, what did he do? Well, tell me. I don't know anything about him.
- [06:58]
B
Just great at marketing himself. He became bigger on the back of been that reckless bad guy. He proved himself as a fighter first and then developed into this amazing businessman later. Andreas proved himself on the water. So I don't think this is a bad move. Whether he still performs on the water, I don't care. He's bigger than the sport now. And that's something that you'd said to me a long time. Andre is going to be bigger than the sport and we're already sort of seen this. You know, he's quite often on Italia, Red Bull stuff at different events. He's like the main guy there. So, so it's great for Andrea. I mean, I'm all for bad boys. We had once held high hopes for, you know, Tom Bridge to take over that role, but he doesn't really want to be that role, you know. Well, I think Andrea is going to embrace that. I think he's going to embrace this. I'm a rebel.
- [07:46]
A
Andrea is not pretending he's not playing a role. He is, he is a rock star. He can't help it. He can't help it. And it's so authentic. And yeah, I think, I think RRD have looked at him and thought this is how we do it. And I really, really applaud that because I do think Andrea has a lot left in the tank. I have no idea what the size of the deal is. Obviously we don't know and we wouldn't be able to find out. But yeah, I think this is such a big win for rrd.
- [08:26]
B
Huge. I mean I have reached out to Roberto Rich himself and I've also obviously reached out to Andrea and I'll gently work on that one. It's a. It's a massive coup. I, I can't think of a bigger move to a smaller brand ever. I mean, I, I sat all afternoon thinking about that. I know that I remember Renato Casadi saying he didn't really know Harlem.
- [08:48]
A
It's not the same, though.
- [08:49]
B
It isn't the same because they'd already had Scott. They'd already sort of been opening up that. Sort of opening up that pathways.
- [08:55]
A
Lorenzo had only won one king. I know it's King of the Year. I know it's the biggest competition in the sport, but he'd only won one King of the Year. He was not the Lorenzo Casata we know now.
- [09:02]
B
He'd also come off that horror show with the next brand he went to. I mean, he had pretty volatile six months, couldn't find the height, had the gear, the gear issues, and that was over quick. At that time, when we did the blank check with Lorenzo, there wasn't that many brands that had budget for him. You know, it's like we say, he made this brave choice, but maybe it was the only choice that came to the table, you know, and it's turned out gold. That's why I go back and say fortune favors a brain. Look, Andrea is a very, very smart guy. You know that he wouldn't have done this unless he didn't see the bigger picture. I think back to podcast, he said, you know, I want to do. I want to make this crazy kite. I've got these ideas. Maybe this is all him predicting the future. Maybe he knows where he's going.
- [09:47]
A
Do you know what? I know, and I'm pretty sure this breaks data protection law, but I know that a certain. I'll make up the email so you guys don't bombard him. But I know that apranchippy0fourotmail.com is a username that was signed up on a certain kite designing software in the past few weeks. So, yeah, I think he is gonna be involved in that. And you're right, that is something that he's always gone on about. And Duotone, we're never gonna let him do that because he wants to. He wants to, I know, make something mental. And I do think that he will really try and swing for the fences and not make something that is just middle of the road. I think he will really want to push and I think as well. Well, one, he's got the desire to. But two, I do think he has the. He's bright, Andrea, you said it before, he's a smart guy and I Think he would be capable of doing it in years to come? Whether RRD have the budget for huge amount of prototyping, considering it's like €300 to €500 a kite prototyping, depending on what material you're using. And Andrea will presumably need 30, 100 to do a whole quiver.
- [11:24]
B
He's a brand new guy in the design industry. Sure, he's going to be working with designers, he's going to be partnering up with someone, but if he's looking to push the kite a certain way, man, that's going to lead out a lot of prototypes, a lot of bridling, it's going to be a lot of work and that's going to be super interesting. But Andrea is a magnet. Watch this space. The best guys in the industry are going to come out and try and get involved with him, because if he can do something that's special, it's guaranteed. It's going to be. The best guys are going to be with him and they're going to be helping him.
- [11:57]
A
RRD bagging a big name has been something that has kind of been doing the rounds. It's been in the background, it's been gossipy for years now. When we first went to Mykonos with Lorenzo to do the blank check, which is a series where he tries everything, someone from RRD flew into Mykonos, didn't tell us, turned up at the beach with a prototype and said, do you guys mind if Lorenzo tries it? And we said, well, yes, we do mind because we're in a shoot and that's not a blank kite and you haven't told us, so can you please fly up once he's done with us? And they were good about it, they said, yeah, go on then. Fine. And he flew it and then he went to Harlem.
- [12:42]
B
So I looked on the RD website. So, I mean, there's a lot of people, most of them, you have no idea. If I go down, there's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Andre is in eighth position. Andrea Principe is an eighth position on that. Guys, put him on the top, put a crown on him and have everyone else at his feet. An eighth position on the list. That's almost insulting.
- [13:04]
A
It's. I just can't. I can't believe it's happened. I can't believe it's happened. I'm pleased it has, but it is very, very surprising.
- [13:15]
B
Is that the same sort of news when you. Did you feel the same way about this news when he. Hill went to Ocean Rodeo?
- [13:22]
A
No, Hill Wasn't heel at that point. He hadn't done the double. This is way bigger. Tell you what, I'm on the fashion side of RRD and it's actually quite cool. And if they use Andrea as a model, that is going to be sick. I hope they do. Surely they will they make orange cool. I don't know how they've done.
- [13:46]
B
Orange is cool. Orange looks cool.
- [13:48]
A
It's terrible, but they've made it cool. Honestly, you should look at some of this. It's epic.
- [13:52]
B
Dude, you've never seen me in orange.
- [13:54]
A
No, you wouldn't look good in orange.
- [13:56]
B
No, I look terrible. I look bad in orange. I played in some rugby teams there. Well, orange. I came on, I said, guys, I can't play in this. Change the kit. Where's the away strip? Let's play in the away strip.
- [14:08]
A
So you're going to try and get Andre on. This is your plan?
- [14:11]
B
Yeah, I've reached out to Andrea, I've reached out to Roberto, obviously. Yeah, look, Andrea is still a little bit media shy. He has been that way since the Dubai stunt, which is totally cool. And I. And I. I'm happy to give him that space, but I will gently try and push that one and hopefully in the near future get that on because there's just so much to break down with that Andrea situation.
- [14:33]
A
So who do you think knew Andrea was looking to leave and tried to get him as well? I think RD would have had a special connection to him being Italian speaking and through Alicia. But who else do you think was shopping?
- [14:51]
B
Dude, there wasn't a lot of time. He said, I'm out. And then three days later he said, here I am. Normally when people say they're out, there's like a downtime, right. And that's where all the brands, you know, they sit down, they have their meeting, how much money have we got? They're counting their pennies and they make the call. But I don't think he gave anyone any opportunity. I don't think he shopped. I think he went straight out. He got the offer, he thought about it. He was unhappy, as you said, in his previous position, or was maybe not unhappy, but maybe didn't feel like he was really shining. He got this opportunity and he just jumped ship.
- [15:25]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's not from him. That is our speculation. And actually I probably shouldn't have said that in the past interview because I said it like fact and it's probably not fair on Duotone or on Andrea. And I remember thinking that once it gone up, I Was like, oh, but we'll make mistakes, don't we? I think, though, that it. I think he's gonna miss that kite. And I think the only other kite he would have considered would be the Haarlem or the Slingshot.
- [16:05]
B
I mean, that's the next big question. Dude, do you think RRD are going to partner up with Brainchild? Like, Harlem, like, F1, like, read in. Because he has that relationship with Ralph, by the way. You know, Andrea and Ralph are very close. They've worked together for a long time. I mean, they've had a long relationship.
- [16:24]
A
I mean, Ralph designed the kite that Andrea had his biggest year on the 2023 EPOD lab.
- [16:32]
B
Is this something that's going to happen?
- [16:35]
A
I mean, it would make sense.
- [16:37]
B
That's the only thing it could be.
- [16:39]
A
I have heard nothing on that, though. And it does seem like RRD
- [16:47]
B
need help.
- [16:47]
A
Keep things in while they need help, for sure. But it does seem like they keep things in house.
- [16:53]
B
Even Alice saying, this is something I wanted for a very, very long time. It's the same narrative that we heard the guys in Harlem speaking. You know, we've heard this thing. Big things are coming. You know, we're going to change the game. We're going to change the world. I'm going to do something different. It's the same narrative every time. It wouldn't surprise me. I mean, when I was speaking to Ralph, you're going to hear part one of the Ralph interview coming up. He was very, very positive about his move to rd. It's a great thing. It's going to be amazing. Andre is going to be coming back, but he didn't give anything more than that. But he was very, very positive to me about it.
- [17:27]
A
I think if Andrea is going to do this and he is actually going to fulfill his ambition, I don't think there's any other way to do it. No one is pushing as hard as Ralph Grossel at Brainchild with a new facility and new materials. New, New materials.
- [17:44]
B
I mean, dude, he's just stepped up production massively, and now there's room. Now there's room. I mean, I don't know how he breaks down his time across the brands, but look, one thing that I know, Ralph, he's a born winner, and he wants success, and he loves success. He loves to be at the forefront of the industry, and that could be it. I mean, again, guys, we. This is all speculation. As you know, Colin and I love a good speculation, especially in a pie, but, man, it's. It can't be Anything else?
- [18:15]
A
Okay, let's hear part one of the Ralph Grossel interview. Exciting times. Adrian.
- [18:21]
B
Ralph, welcome to the podcast, my friend. How are you doing?
- [18:24]
C
Not too bad, thank you very much. Pleasure to be here, mate.
- [18:27]
B
It's been a crazy month for you with opening of the new facility at Brainchild. Leonardo Casati winning the world championships on your kite. I mean, is it always this busy in your life?
- [18:39]
C
Unfortunately, it seems to be, yeah, like this. But it was extra busy. Yeah, definitely extra busy, extra exciting. Having, having the opening at the. On the manufacturing side was a huge event and of course, achieving this very important milestone for us was fantastic. Fantastic to see.
- [19:04]
B
How do you go about inviting the Prime Minister to come and do the opening? Is that an easy task to do?
- [19:10]
C
No, actually not. We have been in contact with the government for quite some time in order to get support, like support in every single regard. For example, support in terms of the documents which have to be applied in terms of subsidies, for example, in regards of getting parts of the building subsidized, for example, the EV system, sorry, the photovoltaic system and so on. So there always has been a back and forth, but ultimately I think we triggered them by being very, very different, let's say, in comparison to the automotive industry. And I think, yeah, I think they somehow like the idea that that guy from Germany is coming over to this little country, trying to bring an industry which is normally very much established in Asia back to Europe. And I think they just like the idea. And the craziness of the idea itself
- [20:28]
B
was that one of the reasons why you chose Macedonia because they were open to supporting your vision? And I mean, I guess most people know why Macedonia or why North Macedonia, I should say.
- [20:39]
C
No, that was not the idea in first place at all when I started with the project. That was not any attachment to the governmental side at all whatsoever. I mean, the project was poorly founded by myself and our first investor and there was never the intention to get any subsidies done. We even didn't know that this is existing. But North Macedonia is not part of European Union. It has extremely good labor set up in terms of price to value. It's one of the countries in Europe where the labor is relatively low in comparison to other European countries. Of course, absolutely not in comparison to Asia or to Sri Lanka, but that was never the idea. And just after establishing the laboratory, we actually figured out that there are options and then we started to explore the options.
- [21:45]
B
I mean, when you talk about low labor, you're talking about high quality individuals, but at an affordable price. Is that what you mean?
- [21:53]
C
Yeah, 100%. I mean, this is the most important. I mean, we're in Europe, so you do have a generally different mentality from the people over the Asian mentality. It's just how it is. And some things are easier. For example, to explain what you mean by quality, like what is the value of a product is actually fairly simple to explain. But then of course, in North Macedonia, no one has ever seen a product like this before. So there was never an established infrastructure industry, in contrast to Sri Lanka or to China, where definitely this business, business, the sale business, let's call it, because everything is originating from the sales industry, in our industry. And yeah, Macedonia don't even have access to any sort of sea. So the business was completely new.
- [22:55]
B
I guess you're entering, let's call it phase two of brainchild. Right. How much bigger is the facility from phase one or its original sort of state?
- [23:05]
C
Yeah, I mean the phase two, as you name it, was always part of the initial plan. I mean, the initial plan is to have two different entities. The one which is the laboratory, which is able to create the innovation, which is then sent to the manufacturing side where the duplication is happening. And for us, it is actually literally the most important phase from the entire idea to have now these super, this really separated entities. They are also technically two different firms. So the size, when we're talking about the size, maybe the size itself is not that relevant. I mean, we have in the lab 1700 square meter of surface, and on the lab we have three and a half thousand square meter. So that is basically the ratio. But the point is more that on the manufacturing side everything is streamlined towards, towards duplication, where in the lab it was never intended actually to duplicate products. So what we had to do, because you can't do everything at once, we had the proof of concept in the laboratory. We basically started to produce, so to mass produce our products over there up to the point where we were not able anymore to even turn around and properly inflate our products because we just ran out of space entirely. So now with that completely newly created setup, with again another white piece of paper, where we have been able to get all the knowledge captured from the laboratory transferred into the setup of the manufacturing. That is a completely different approach. And we 100% have by any standards the most modern production facility when it comes to kites and wings in the world. Right.
- [25:15]
B
Now, did I hear you right by saying that the laboratory and the factory are different entities, like different companies or they under the same banner? How does that work?
- [25:24]
C
One company is called Brainchild Production, which is actually Brainchild Laboratory. It's like little error of naming. We will figure it out later. And the other one is called Brainchild Manufacturing. So it is, it is two entities. Because the reason of doing this is that we really also have a different purpose. Different purpose, different meaning. On the laboratory side, we can just also work for third parties. For example, if we have a company we're working with and not in the field of kite surfing or winging, where they want to have material developed or technology getting approved, then we can actually offer the service. So the lab is way more than just the hub of kite and wing innovation. It is a hub of innovation in itself and especially towards material development and then from the material over to production technologies. But these materials and production technologies can be used or transferred to other branches, to other industries. So that gives us a huge flexibility over there. And everything else is just sheer duplication. So it makes sense to have two different entities.
- [26:57]
B
So let's say a normal day for you, Ralph. I, I guess you spend most of your time in the lab, right? You're trying to innovate, you're trying to design, you're trying to think of new ways. Is that where your main focus is now opposed to the factory, which is just duplicating your outcomes? Would that be the right way to say it?
- [27:15]
C
Yeah, it is the right way to say it, but just duplicating, I would not this not agree on the word. Just because duplicating its.
- [27:24]
B
I don't want to cheat. Don't worry.
- [27:26]
C
Exactly, exactly. Let me explain it a bit more because the, the lab and the manufacturing also requires a different type of person to run it. Yeah, the manufacturing is run by people coming from the auto automotive industry, which is also very new within our industry in general. So I had the luck to convince people from automotive to actually starting the manufacturing. And Svetlana, which is running the entire show, she brought her team and she is fully in charge of not only setting up and running it, but also making sure that I have my freedom within the laboratory. And as you said. Yeah, for me it is extremely important to work on the innovation side because I'm capturing the knowledge and from everything I have been doing so far in my life, from all the different projects I have been involved. And yeah, that's where I also belong, to set up my infrastructure, the infrastructure I always have been dreaming of to be in the position to make my own decisions. I think that's very important because this is what it's all about. I always wanted to be in the position to make my own decisions. And here now with the lab, I have the right foundation, I have the platform created. And there we have just a handful of people, but all rounders, so not specifically like ladies working on one phase of the kite. We have people over there which has been with us since the very beginning. These are the people with the greatest set of knowledge and they are able to create new products based on new materials or if we are going to develop a para wing, which has, of course, nothing to do with a wing or a kite itself, inflatable. These are actually persons I'm. Yeah, I'm working with.
- [29:38]
B
You mentioned Svetlana there and her team. Did you find these people in North Macedonia or these people you recruited from the area, or is there just a lot of quality people in this country that can do that?
- [29:50]
C
I think the level of quality people in every country is always the same in percentage. And it's extremely hard to find skilled people in general. It's just a mathematical rule. And Svetlana has been working on the other side of the road at a facility, which is a German facility, creating wiring harnesses like cable trees for the automotive industry. They are the biggest single employee in North Macedonia with in total 14,000 employees. And she was there since the beginning. She has been working there for 12 years.
- [30:29]
A
She.
- [30:29]
C
She has seen the company growing and yeah, now she's basically taking her knowledge, the knowledge she captured over there, into a new project. And I. Let me quickly think about it, but besides Isabel, my wife and myself, we are the only foreigners. Yeah, we are definitely the only foreigners in our entire infrastructure.
- [30:57]
B
That's awesome though, right? I mean, it's great to be able to give that opportunity to these people who live around the area.
- [31:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have 235 employees at the moment. We had to establish bus lines to the villages to get them all collected.
- [31:14]
A
And.
- [31:16]
C
No, I mean, as. Yeah, as we said, like, I think this kind of project with all the aspects of trying to be as sustainable as ever possible to bringing this kind of handwork back from Asia to Europe is definitely a lighthouse project. You know, like, the people are definitely looking at us or tosses or however you want to see it. And they have been laughing at the beginning. They always have been laughing about me, really. They. They made jokes, you know, like that this. The stupid German is coming over and trying to build these. These bloody products over there. And then. And then actually they figured out that I, That I always fulfilled the Things I told them. Yeah. Because they, they couldn't believe it. And there's one maybe interesting story Major of Bitola. Tony once came and visited us because he heard that there's this German guy, he's making these funny colorful thingies. No idea what exactly we are doing. So he was visiting us and I showed him around, I showed him the technology. I showed him also like what I try to achieve, you know, like, and the way I'm setting up the company to have it run on solar power, that I really try to also positively influence the workers with creating more awareness about their own country. You know that the first thing we did, for example, one of my very good friends, Gohan, which is also from north Macedonia, he's a very well known photographer and we printed pictures he created from the nature of, of North Macedonia on cotton which is made in North Macedonia to a frame from wood made from woods made from Macedonia. And that was the very first thing we did. So we got our digital printer and the first thing we did, we printed pictures from the countryside of Macedonia. And just of course for us for a proof of concept that the printer is working. But also the initial idea was also to say like the ice. You're always complaining about your own country, but what you don't capture is that you literally live in one of the most beautiful areas in the world. And now we have these pictures on the wall since ever then we have them. And that kind of like logic I explained to Tony as well. And ultimately he was so like overwhelmed with everything that he really said. Like that it's. That it's unbelievable for him that within his career, within his life, because he's not normal politician. Like we know he's. He was a doctor and then turned to be a politician. And he said like it was. It's so fantastic and great to see that something within his career is actually happening. That there's someone coming and tries to do things better or different, but really has the motivation of changing things. Yeah. So. And since ever then he, he always tells me that he tells to everybody that story that this German came and he also told it to the Prime Minister. He's very proud of this. You know, like he's definitely more proud of this than I am. But he said like he's for him it's so cool. It has changed a lot of things he is looking at and he, it changed him. He. He told me so at least something, you know, whatever will be the outcome ultimately in the end only time will tell. But yeah, sorry for the Long story.
- [35:07]
B
No, it's totally cool. But you know the thing, Ralph, is I always think it's important to get people like Tony on your side. Right. Because there's always going to be a time you're going to need someone like that. And I always say relationship, relationship, relationship. It's the most important thing you can do. So yeah, it's, it's cool.
- [35:21]
C
Yeah, it's networking in general. Yeah, it's. And being connected and is very important if you have business relationship. I mean, for example, we try to get as many of our raw materials purchased within North Macedonia as close as ever by. And this is also something, you know, in the end we are in a small country that has only a population of 2 million people. So this is basically just a little city or like reasonable big city, reasonably big city in Europe. But everybody is connected to everyone. And it has its pros and cons. But the pro is definitely that if you have a problem, you will always find someone who knows somebody who's able to solve your problem. Which is really cool.
- [36:04]
B
Ralph, just before we get into the lab, which everyone really wants to hear, you mentioned solar. How is that solar production working? Do you know what percentage of power it supplies to the building? I'm guessing you have a big requirement. What is the offset and how does that work?
- [36:19]
C
Well, in the Laboratory we're running 100% on solar power. And the thing is the way it works in North Macedonia, which is, is really smart, you're not selling over capacities to, to the grid or in this, in this regard to the country. You're buffering it basically over there. So the same amount of current produced you can actually then you're getting deduct from your bill and this is like, that's, that's a really, really cool system because ultimately this is the way how it should be. You're feeding the current and you're getting something off. So this is working 100%, the lab is working 100 on solar average over the year. Of course, average over the year. Not in the winter, but in the summer. We are producing more than we are, we're needing. And on the manufacturing side, we are currently in progress of getting everything installed and ready for the solar system. It's not installed yet. We just hadn't had the ability and also the legal documents ready on time because we have been building the manufacturing in eight months. A three and a half thousand square meter production facility built in eight months is eight months. It's crazy. This is China time actually, or China speed, not time, but that's really China speed. And for us it was essential to actually move out of the lab because we have been running out of space, as mentioned.
- [37:52]
B
All right, let's talk about the lab. What actually happens there? What do you do on a day to day basis? I mean, is this like Tony Stark walking in and just having fun and just creating or where do you set your limits, limitations to when it comes to innovation?
- [38:06]
C
Well, yeah, we have a very wide range of different raw materials. I mean that's always the base on one side and then on the other side we have a huge complex array of different machineries which are of course required to enable innovation. And innovation can be pretty much everything. But the innovation I like to talk about the most is definitely when it comes to the material developments itself, like we have been investing into material development, roughly 1 million Euro in the last one and a half years, including machinery I have to say. But from that, from that 1 million, literally half a million, half of it is dedicated to raw materials. Because the problem is if you have ideas and you have very specific needs, then you have to order huge quantities. And yeah, huge quantity means if, if I need, let's say if I need a protection paper, like a paper which I need for colandering, I have to order not 100 meter, I have to order 20,000 square meters, you know, and then of course, because it is down to the requirement which, which we figure out and it's something like this is just not available off the shelf and it has to be produced. So and if you can imagine that just the paper you need, yeah, you have to go quantities 20,000 square meters, then what if you want to have the right glue or the right film, it's basically adding up. And yeah, we have literally hundreds of different individual single components and we are playing with it, we have the freedom of playing with it. I know exactly from the designer's point of view what I'm aiming for and I think this is the big advantage being in this multi role position, being kite designer for I don't know how long, way too long, I'm old and. And then also, yeah, having the ability to actually play with different components and starting to really understand how it's made and then yeah, trying to combine them in a, in a meaningful sense.
- [40:37]
B
You know, you use the word play, right, that's associated with word fun. Is this fun for you trying to find new materials? And does it ever get not fun when you go too far and have to come back and you think, oh man, I'll spend a Lot of money pushing to this extent because obviously you want to find the lightest, strongest material. Right? That's. I guess that's the name of the game.
- [40:56]
C
Yeah. The thing is, it is, of course, it is fun, you know, but it's fun, but it's also a huge responsibility. I always say, like, sometimes I go to the beach with a. With a. With a product, with a tight. With a new material, and then I'm. I'm always joking. I said, like, yeah, well, if I would just. Just add up the cost of that prototype. It's in the range of €200,000, you know, and then you take. And. And then you basically take the product and you fly it to realize it doesn't work, and then you make it back out of it. And this is really what it. What, what. What's R and D all about? You know, it is. It is the highs and the lows. It makes fun the moment the things are all coming together and you're able to finalize the puzzle. But it's definitely also extremely frustrating on the other side if you think you made it and then figuring out that you didn't. And then of course you try, hopefully most of the time, not always, but most of the time, then you try to understand why it's not working. So it's not a lost. Yeah. R D is normally never a lost, it's always a gain. So it is. It is absolutely fun. But, yeah, fun with. Fun with limitations.
- [42:17]
B
How do you find that balance with risk versus reward when pushing the boundaries in the lab? Because there has to be a balance at some point where you're like, man, I'm just going too hard here.
- [42:27]
C
Yeah, of course it is. I mean, we always have a clear. I mean, I always had, in my career or in generally in my life, a very clear target. You cannot achieve any goal if you don't have a target. So we are setting ourselves a target for everything. We set our target to create this infrastructure. We are setting ourselves a target to create materials and then resulting products based on these materials. So it's. It's always a thin line between overdoing and over engineering. This is like something I absolutely hate. I hate looking at people over engineering because that always means that they had too much money to spend. That's the only reason why you do over engineering. And we try to not do this. We try to be extremely focused. We try to work hand in hand with our suppliers to create that knowledge base which is required. And already right now, not having, let's say, the level of materials out there on the market. Yet I know that we have captured so much knowledge that we have good possibilities in the future.
- [43:43]
B
In Mykonos, I saw Baptiste on a kite, and the leading edge looked like it was made of aluminium. I mean, literally, when you look at it, it's like, is that a metal kite? I don't know if that's a new material or that's a color scheme. What am I seeing there, huh?
- [43:59]
C
So, first of all, you were not supposed to see it.
- [44:03]
B
I mean, we can take this part out if you want. I just thought I'd have to ask you, because, look, it's so striking in the air, in that evening light in Mykonos, that it's literally like the kind of thing you sort of glance at, but you, like, do a double take. You're like, what am I looking at? So crazy.
- [44:18]
C
Yeah, you're looking at something, which is absolutely crazy. But this is, as far as I can tell, and. Or I'm willing to tell. I mean, this is something. Let's put it this way. You have seen something we are able to create in house. We are able to learn from. From this kind of ideas. We can learn from it in a. In a sense of. We are exploring and pushing the boundaries extremely hard to all different directions. And I'm not sure if this kind of material will ever make it to the market, but we have gained very, very interesting results from it. We, for example, we learned that parts of the constructions are failing. We would never, ever expect to fail because the material is so rigid that things are failing. You would not even consider to be failed. I mean, this kind of material is like four. Four to five times stronger than anything I have ever seen before. But, I mean, it's a. It's an approach. As I said, flight characteristics of a wing or of a kite are very different. And what, for example, works on a kite, not necessarily works on a wing, and the other way around. So it's all about understanding the requirements of what we are doing. And sometimes we have to put these kites under the sunlight and. Yeah, but it was not intended to be recognized by you.
- [46:06]
B
By the way, it was after most of the writers had gone, you know, so let's let me put it that way. Hey, guys, I hope you enjoyed that. Don't forget to join in next week for part two of the Ralph Grossel exclusive.