A (2:17)

Yeah, yeah, I think it is really important. It's the majority of the market realistically. You know, most guys cruising around doing a variety of things, sort of kind of somewhat focused on jumping and that's what all these kites were designed to do. So, yeah, it's very broad, you know, as a discipline obviously covers everything, but really it's what most riders are going to be using.

B (2:39)

I mean, you did some freestyle to the big air, you did foiling, you know, that's what free ride kite should be good at. Should a freeride kite be a jack of all trades or can it be some stronger in some areas? Because, you know, it's a difficult one to have one kite to, to do everything right.

A (2:56)

Yeah, I think that, you know, freeride looks different for everybody based on how you ride, your conditions, where you live, what your backgrounds are. So it all looks slightly different. For me. I did a lot of wakeboarding, so I've always had that kind of wake style influence and competed during the times of binding. So I was really into that. But you know, if I had happened to have really good consistency, consistent waves, you know, it might, it might have more of a wave influence and that then might play into the kite I choose. So I think, yeah, kites need to be free ride. Kites need to be good at everything and they don't necessarily need to, yeah, be really good at one thing. But still, I think in this day and age they've got to be a good big air kite, really, because that seems to sort of be the driver. You know, it's like an easy to use big air kite is how I see free ride kites.

B (3:48)

Do you think the industry's become focused on that single discipline? I don't want to say big air because, you know, it could be something else. But even now I see the big air kites that Andrea Lorenzo, you know, name it, Jeremy Ride. I see people using that kite for foiling, for, for everything. And you know, just they see that kite because the pros riding it, they buy it. Is that the wrong way to approach it, you think?

A (4:08)

Yeah, I think that is what's happening and I get it. Because if you, if, if you're watching someone that, you know, inspires you, you aspire to do those tricks and they're like, well, it works for them, it must work. So I do think that's really important. I think, you know, nowadays all kites are pretty good at everything just because they've come on so much. So you can have a Big Air specific kite that also is not bad at foiling just because they've all got so light and efficient, you know, across the board. So. And the other thing, yeah, with Big Air is it's always going to have that, you know, eye catching, you know, viral thing. So we do get exposed to it a lot on social media just because that is the majority of what people are posting. But I still think brands, you know, do still focus on their niche, you know, like Slingshot Bill released a specific wave kite last year, you know, which, you know, not, not that many brands have done for a while. So, and that was working with, you know, our wave team riders and designers and stuff like that. So I still think that there are these niches that are super important within our industry because that's what got a lot of us into it.

B (5:16)

You know, it's funny, I, I always think that the pros who go in every condition on different gear are almost the minority now. There's not, they're not so common then you got people like Jamie Overbeek and those guys who ride everything, like yourself. You go out if there's five knots and there's light wind or there's big wind, I, I kind of feel like that's almost where we used to be.

A (5:36)

Yeah, I think it depends where you are in your kite surfing, you know, journey, you know, how motored you are. Like, I see Lorenzo, like Lorenzo riding in the waves and foiling and yeah, I think just you. We all kind of go through different cycles of obsession. You know, sometimes I would just focus on, on one discipline, you know, as you become almost like obsessed with getting better and better and you can get in your head and think, oh, if I, if I go foiling, it might mess up my timing for my Big Air if you're really going to obsess over it. So really I think it depends where the riders are, you know, in their headspace based on, on their cycle of competitions and focus and stuff like that. But yeah, for me, I've always liked doing different disciplines and yeah, I've always enjoyed different disciplines and also making the most of the conditions at hand, you know, so, you know, there's no point trying to like do foiling when it's good for Big air or vice versa. I'm a big believer of that and that's what keeps it fresh and interesting for me. But you know, I've been doing it for sort of 20 years now, so that's what enabled me to keep my motivation up. If I think if I just did one thing, you know, I'd get bored and burnt out. But again, it depends if you're focused on a full world title chase. You want to. That's all you want to do.

B (6:45)

So, yeah, in saying that, now, I think about, you know, Lorenzo and his brother and Hugo and Finn who, who do multiple disciplines, and it's kind of crazy that, you know, Finn is a freestyle world champion. We can talk about Finn a bit later because he jumps on the code. But, yeah, these. This next generation of guys, you know, you talk about messing up your timing, they don't seem to have a problem at all. They just get on the gear and they're good to go.

A (7:07)

Yeah, for sure. And it also just goes to show how, you know, easy to use and adaptable the gear is as well. You know, they, they, they spend so much time riding it, it just comes so intuitive to them.

B (7:19)

Yeah. Let's talk about the test, mate. How did you feel not knowing what you're riding? Were they quite surprising to you in the way they performed and. And how they all felt? And was that an interesting experience, not actually having any idea what you were flying?

A (7:32)

For sure, yeah. I knew I wasn't going to be very good at guessing just because, you know, I wouldn't say I'm the biggest kite geek, you know, I'm not, like, looking at all the different brands and, yeah, I haven't maybe taken notice of all the different models that have been released over the years, have been in my own little bubble, so. And I sort of kept. Kept it like that before the test, I thought, I won't do any research. I'll kind of come, you know, fairly naive, and it'll give me a, you know, more organic view of all the kites, so. But it also was slightly embarrassing being so bad at best, when I look back on the video, I was like, oh, no, what a bloker. But.

B (8:07)

But I thought that was awesome, Sam.

A (8:09)

It made it funny.

B (8:10)

Yeah, I actually like that part when you got there and you looked down the line and it's in. It's in episode one and you're like, oh, it's like, I have no idea. But I, I actually thought that was actually the best part because it really showed that you were like, well, this is going to be tougher than I thought.

A (8:24)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think not knowing, you know, stops you having any kind of predetermined ideas about how the kite's going to fly based on, you know, what friends and peers and, you know, or I read online that I Have this impression of how it flies already. I did have. Obviously did have quite a lot of that because I'm exposed to a fair amount of it, but. And there was a couple of kites that were fairly obvious, and I was like, you know, I expect that, you know, brainchild one to feel like this because I've heard about it, but there was definitely like three or four. I was like, have no idea particularly. Yeah, the core. The core pace at the beginning. Just like I was like convinced it was an ozone. Yeah. So, so wrong, however, saying that. Yeah, I think that I also could. After doing that test, I think I could do another test with branded kites and give, you know, a subjective review. Maybe it wouldn't feel as authentic and biased like online. It might have a little bit, but I think that you could still give a. An overall review. Perhaps for those brands, you know, that don't want to do a blank kite test, you could just do a branded one.

B (9:36)

Maybe the idea of the blankness of the kite is that so you can speak freely without sort of feeling like, oh, I don't want to say anything bad here in case this brand, you know, comes after me. I mean, actually, you know, you not.

A (9:48)

Knowing so much I say felt bad watching my.

B (9:50)

No, no, no, don't feel bad at all.

A (9:52)

Maybe I was a bit harsh.

B (9:54)

Were you? Not knowing anything was actually really good because, you know, when we've done, like, let's say for the last one with Aaron, I mean, Aaron's ridden all those kites. It doesn't take him long till he pick up the kite. I mean, if you. If you look at Aaron, he's got his eyes closed, his fingers on the bar. It's almost like he's just downloading the DNA of the kite. You know, he knows he. And he could pick those kites out within one or two minutes of riding it. So it was awesome that you came from a little bit more of a blank sl. And I don't think you should have to feel bad at all because all brands also have to realize that you're giving your opinion and we're asking you as a key opinion leader for that, you know.

A (10:25)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. No. And in the end, particularly once I learned about the prices and stuff, it felt like it all kind of evened out by the end. But, you know, at some of the first comments, because they were such differing feelings of kites. But I was also, I was like, before it, I guess, slightly worried. I said, what if I can't tell the difference that much, You Know, like, I've not done testing in years. I've never been, like, a massive tester. I've never had, like, a massive drive to, like, be on the water testing different gear. But I still enjoy breaking down the feeling of it in my head and giving feedback. Like, I still do give feedback when asked on. And actually, I was really pleased to know that, you know, my intuition was bang on. I felt like, yeah, I know that I can feel the difference completely and how I like it. And, yeah, the pros and cons, you.

B (11:16)

Know, you bought price to the table, and that's something that we had never done before. And it was super interesting when you said, hey, I want to look at the prices. Were you surprised when you saw the difference in price ranges across those kites? Because the bottom line is they're all great kites, right?

A (11:30)

Yeah, yeah. Blown away. It actually suddenly made the ones that I had maybe given not as good a feedback, made them almost, you know, seem better value as some of the most expensive. Because, yeah, when we started to discuss it over a beer one evening in Egypt, I was just like, you know, how can you compare, you know, this thing that's like three times the price? You know, if you. If you were gonna, you know, have a race, a car race, and you had one with it enhanced, you know, carbon fiber and one that's just steel, obviously the one with the better materials is going to have an advantage. So, yeah, at the end of the day, the test comes back to performance, and having those, you know, enhance more expensive materials is going to give you an advantage. So it was only fair to bring that into as a factor.

B (12:15)

Did any of the kites surprise you once you found out the brand or the. Or the designer?

A (12:23)

Good question. I guess just the corn. Because I had no idea. There was a core I had in my head that it was an ozone more that I just committed to. I thought that that, again, that was maybe a prerequisite of how I thought an ozone kite would feel. You know, lots, like, quite lifty, based on what I've heard about them. Well, I'm just. I have to just go through each one in my head quickly. Yeah, I guess. Also, Kite 8, the Bandit, like, Pentatex thing, surprised me.

B (12:51)

I mean, I think the Bandit was your favorite for most of the tests. You're like, that's. That's my top kite at the moment.

A (12:56)

It was, yeah. And also, in hindsight, I wondered if it was anything to do with the mentality of it being like, the last one on the day. I don't know, but maybe not. Yeah, I just thought. But also maybe it was me again, assuming in my head that it was a brainchild because I could see it definitely had something going on from a distance. Obviously you guys don't let me get close to it, but, you know, even 20 meters away or so, you can still like just about see the leading edge shining and stuff like that and the panel layout. So, yeah, I thought. I was convinced that was a Brainchild kite for the whole time. So I was really impressed that it wasn't. Yeah, it still had that really light feel of the Brainchild kite, so that definitely surprised me. But they all did, to be honest. Yeah, I think there was only like two or three that were like a sure thing. Gas and the rest. I had no idea.

B (13:47)

I should probably add that to my point at the top that Sam can't get closer than the 22 meters to the kites. And we do that so he can't look at stitching and valves in particular. I think that's important.

A (13:58)

Sorry. Just to add to that, I would say in Egypt there's obviously a lot of kites and they're like, what was it the second day we were getting a boat out to the lagoon. You know, I can't help but look at other canopies that, you know, branded canopies, because that was definitely a telltale sign is the canopy layouts, the stitching, they're all somewhat unique. And you know, if I'm driving in a boat through like 100 kites, I can't help but looking at. And then I started to think, oh, I did start to get a couple based off that. Even though I was trying not to tee.

B (14:32)

I don't want to say that. We actually went up to this little lagoon and there's someone riding a kite that's in the test in the lagoon. We're like, God, what is going on here? Yeah, that was pretty funny.

A (14:40)

Yeah.

B (14:41)

Do these high end materials have a place in freeride, do you think? Are materials important in the freeride category?

A (14:47)

I think it's definitely important to consider because obviously, you know, people might have a budget, they might have an idea how much they want to spend. And also it really comes back to where you are in your kite surfing journey, like how good you are and what you aspire to do. You know, if you're like jumping, you want to get that extra 20, 30%. Maybe you're trying to break the 10 meter or 20 meter barrier. You know, those additional materials could give you a 20, 30% in performance, you know, just without you increasing your own ability. So if I would say, yeah, if you're an accomplished kite surfer and you really want a sportier kite, you know, that's, that's more exhilarating to fly faster and lighter, you know, more lift, etc. Then you're going to benefit from, from that. But if you're sort of beginner to intermediate and you're just mowing the lawn, even jumping, you know, even jumping five or six meters, you know, it's not gonna, you're not gonna notice any difference really. To be honest, I honestly don't think, I think you could put intermediates on, they still wouldn't be able to tell you the difference because they're all really good kites. I think that was one of my biggest takeaways of it. I was like, wow, it's so cool how far we've come. And even these, you know, even the most cost effective kites were still really good kites, which is really cool to see.

B (16:07)

Yeah, that's an interesting point because generally free ride kites, unless you're traveling around, you want to take one kite to a destination, you do multiple things. It's generally like a beginner entry kite sort of type of thing, like beginners getting in. And I think if you're a beginner and you're going to be putting that kite down a lot, which is going to happen when you first start kite boarding. Yeah, those high end materials, they might not be the kite of choice.

A (16:28)

Exactly. They're going to also be a lot faster and a lot more responsive, you know, so if you're a little heavy, if you're a little heavy handed, you know, perhaps learning to go out wind or tacking and stuff, you know, actually it turning twice as fast could, you know, get you in trouble as well. So there's an argument to say, you know, the, you know, the ones with the cheaper materials might even be more suitable for you also based on where you ride as well. I think that's a big factor. Like comparing the type of wind, I think is really, really interesting, you know, because obviously like in like I've got here today, cold wind is very dense and very punchy and strong. And that's where having like a more solid feeling kite, you know, in gusty wind, it really helps you. So if you're riding somewhere like that, you know, then those kites almost better. Particularly if you're like beginner, intermediate and you're trying to like slow it all down to just survive. So. Yeah. And then obviously if you're in hot wind, then having, like, a really sporty kite, you know, is really fun because it's also forgiving.

B (17:30)

You know, when the series starts, you see Sam walk and we have the kites on the beach. There was one kite that you recognized straight away, which was a code. And I hope you're. I'm happy you could pick that one out of the bunch. We obviously couldn't let you ride it. And we put Finn Flugel, the 20, 25 freestyle world champion, on to. Me and Ben were standing in the. In the ocean. He was just riding around us. That was pretty incredible. What did you think of Finn's performance, just jumping on your kite first time? And he loved it, by the way he came out. He couldn't stop talking about it. He's like, oh, mate, I love that kite.

A (17:58)

That's cool. Yeah. I mean, I didn't get to see it because, remember, you filmed like, the day I arrived, but obviously I saw his episode and, yeah, he's insane. He's like one of the riders to look out for, you know, I love how he's, like, doing stuff a bit differently, you know, putting his own spin on things. It's very unique. And also, you know, from a freeride perspective, he does it all, doesn't he? You know, he's just freestyle world champion, but then he can, you know, he could well win the King of the Air in the next couple of years. So, yeah, he's really complete ride. I'm excited to see, you know, how he develops his riding.

B (18:35)

Once you found out all the list of kites, were any of those kites in that, you're like, wow, that's a real surprise to me because we had eight different brands. I don't want to say the brands too much now because, you know, if you haven't seen the series, it is live on Portrait. Definitely go check that out. But with this kite set, you were like, well, I'm really surprised by that.

A (18:52)

Yeah, lots of them, I would say of 8, probably half of them were surprises. You know, obviously there was two or three that were sort of fairly obvious what they were. But then, yeah, lots of them were great surprise. Also how good they were. You know, some of the, you know, the. The cheaper ones that still really performed well. So, yeah, I would say half of them were big surprises. And then half of them were kind of as expected.

B (19:17)

Some of the great feedback was about you doing freestyle, and it's something that we don't get to see so much anymore in that sort of context. You Know, and a lot of people like that. And I, and I kind of think that's probably a forgotten side of free ride as well. Right. Free ride is not just jumping and maybe pulling your first loops. It's doing your own first unhook tricks or jumping on your foil. And I'm glad that you bought all those aspects to the test because it, it showed the true potential of what these kites can do.

A (19:42)

Yeah, it was fun actually getting back, you know, getting back on the horse as it were, because it's been a long time. I do, I do ride a bit of cable. Not loads, not anywhere near as much as I used to. But that sort of keeps some muscle mass for those type of tricks. But definitely not like, you know, those tricks are quite physical. So it does take a lot of commitment getting like physically ready to do those tricks. But it was still really cool to know that I still had the muscle memory to pull out a Mode 5 and a few of my like favorite stock banners. And yeah, I think the thing is it is like nice on the eye. Freestyle, you know, you can't deny that people enjoy watching it even if you don't understand what's going on and perhaps doesn't have the wow factor to the masses out of industry people. But I think a lot of people that, you know, are long time kiters actually do really enjoy watching it because it looks more, more kind of, what's the word?

B (20:39)

It's more technical a little bit as well, you know.

A (20:40)

Yeah, for sure.

B (20:42)

It's super cool to watch up close, you know, like even watching you and Finn just ride, you know, because we're standing in the water, you're riding around us. It's, it's kind of a cool spot to be, it's a spot you don't normally get to see freestyle that close. So it was really cool to feel it almost, you know, not just see it. We could feel the impact, you know, as the board hit the water and we could feel the sort of power through the kite. It was, it was cool.

A (21:03)

Yeah. And also, you know, it's the dream win to do it in like 12 meter Egypt flat water. Obviously it was a bit light in the lagoon that day when I was trying to do freestyle, but it doesn't get any better. So I was like, this is my version of freestyle. These are the tools I have with me. This is, this is the most fun, rewarding thing for me to do in these conditions. Obviously I did try some, you know, like big air, like old school stuff as well because I Think that's a part of it, but yeah, it's just making the best of the conditions and that is the most fun to do. But it has inspired me to do a bit more and try and film a bit more. You know, I think, yeah, it just needs riders that are really like driven to push like their side of things and not maybe like, you know, sort of joining the herd and following what everyone else does. You know, I think riders need to take more ownership of that and just also just, you know, try and be different, do their own thing.

B (22:01)

How much do you think sort of the logos, brands, the tribalism influence most people's kite buying these days? Because I kind of feel like, you know, if you learn on F1, you buy F1 if sort of almost like cultish, you know. Do you think that's something that happens?

A (22:16)

Definitely a factor, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think there's a couple of ways you like, you know, you want to kind of be included in the gang, you know, even if it's online or you might resonate with a brand style of marketing or look, perhaps. But then also, yeah, often people make their buying decisions on whatever they learn on. Right. So if you learn on one brand and you end up just buying that brand because it worked for me, it comes back to also having that positive experience, which is why it's so important to demo kites and also as what sells kites too. And the big thing, if also if you're like going to D platform, you know, you're going to change brands. It's a big investment now, you know, especially if you're buying those expensive kites, couple of grand each, it could be, it's a 10 grand investment, you know, or you got to, you know, you got to sell your other stuff, completely change and you're not going to do it unless you try it. So I think there's a bit of that. You trust a certain brand and also, yeah, there's their style of marketing and what they, they believe in and you stick with them. And it takes a lot to convince you to, to another brand.

B (23:28)

You know, we always encouraging people like you just said, go out and do demo days and go and fly kites. What should people look for when they are going to buy a kite? Is it a balance between the price and how they feel? I mean, I mean, because they're going to jump on kites and go like, this is amazing, but it's, it's three and a half K or three K. What would you suggest to people when they go to Demo days or they've got the opportunity to go to a testable and ride four or five different kites. And by the way, I'd suggest ride it in your. Right, in your board. You know, get as much of your gear as you can so you can feel as much as comfortable. Don't, don't jump on everything brand new because you'll. It'll be a real shock to you. What, what do you suggest?

A (24:04)

Yeah, that's good advice. Like not changing everything at once because, yeah, just try and change one piece of equipment to try stuff. So, yeah, keep your own board and demo other kites. It's really unique to each consumer. Right. Like based on their budgets, their conditions and the riding that they want to do. Also, it's a bit like buying a boat or something like that where you have this idea what you're going to do, but actually you need to be realistic with yourself. You know, you're like, yeah, I'm going to sail the world. I'm going to do double kite loop, you know, boogie loops, whatever. In reality, you ain't saying the word or doing double kite loops. You're probably just like lucky.

B (24:49)

And I've said both, I've said both of them many times. I'm going to say around the world, it hasn't happened and it's probably not going to happen.

A (24:57)

Yeah. So being realistic with yourself and then obviously just there's so much information online nowadays, which is really cool. So trying to like take in as much information of that and then thinking about how the attributes and the riding that they're going to be doing, you know, and it really also, yeah, it comes down a lot to the level that you're at as well and what. And what you want to get out of your sessions and then you can make that decision based off that.

B (25:24)

Well, like, Sam, you did an amazing job and we're going to do a 20, 26 blank kite test. I don't want to say the size, but we are getting a female to do the next test and we're super excited about that and that's going to happen at the end of the year. But look, Sam, I know we've had. You've got a busy morning, so do I. I just wanted to say thanks for jumping on. You didn incredible job. The feedback was awesome. The blank kite test is on portraitkite.com go check it out. Four episodes with Sam and featuring Finn Flugel. Thanks again, dude. You were super awesome and we will definitely have you back.

A (25:54)

Yes, yes. Thanks for the opportunity. Really enjoyed it.

B (25:56)

Hey guys, I hope you enjoyed that episode. Don't forget, if you want to support the show the easiest way is to do it for free. Rate me on Spotify. I'm loving those five star reviews. Share them in your local WhatsApp or kite surfing groups or just simply tell your mates. If you want to support us more regularly, head over to portraitkite.com and check out all the madness there. Portrait is an independent media company trying to tell the stories of kiteboarding the way we believe they should be told. All these projects are funded by people just like you and if you believe in what we do and you want to support us more, head over to portraitkite.com and check it all out. The podcast will always be free, don't worry about that. And if you want to find more episodes just like this one, use the search button@kiteser365.com to search your favorite writer or topic. And we'll be back this Thursday for the Megapod.