Podcast Summary: "Justified by Faith and Works? Defending Sola Fide"

Know What You Believe with Michael Horton
Host: Michael Horton | Guests: Gavin Ortlund, Jordan B. Cooper
Date: January 6, 2026
Episode Theme:
This episode centers on one of the most contested questions in Christian theology: Are we justified by faith alone, or by faith and works? Dr. Horton, Dr. Ortlund, and Dr. Cooper dive deep into the doctrine of sola fide (“faith alone”), outlining its roots in the Reformation, clarifying key terms, navigating apparent biblical contradictions (like Paul vs. James), and exploring the personal and pastoral significance of justification. The trio pays special attention to the Roman Catholic understanding after the Council of Trent, Protestant distinctions, and why this doctrine matters in a restless, works-driven world.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Justification: Catholic vs Protestant Views

[02:47 – 05:33]

• Catholic (Tridentine) View:
  • Justification is understood as a transformative process—entering a state of grace via baptism, then increasing justification through meritorious cooperation.
    • “Justification is a transformative process whereby the individual enters into a state of grace through baptism. ... There’s an infusion of grace into the soul and the grace of justification can be increased through merit.” — Gavin Ortlund [02:47-03:48]
  • Faith must be “formed by love”; merit plays a continuing role.
• Protestant (Reformation) View:
  • Forensic declaration: Justification is God’s legal declaration that, for Christ’s sake, a believer is counted righteous.
    • “It is a forensic declaration. It's a judicial statement, declaration over the sinner, that for the sake of Christ, one is declared perfectly just or righteous.” — Gavin Ortlund [04:06-04:18]
  • Distinction made between sanctification (transformative) and justification (legal/forensic).

2. Key Terms Clarified

[08:18 – 10:52]

• Forensic: Deals with courts and legality—not transformation inside the person, but a judicial verdict outside of them.
• Imputation: Christ’s righteousness is “credited” or “imputed” to the believer.
• Faith: At times means mere intellectual assent, elsewhere means living trust that includes love ("faith working through love").
• “If you don’t work hard at definition of terms, it can sound like James and Paul are just flatly contradicting each other.” — Michael Horton [09:53]

3. Faith’s Role: Instrument, Not Merit

[06:03 – 08:18]

• Faith is not the meritorious cause of justification; rather, “faith grasps Christ.”
  • “Really, justification through faith alone is another way of saying by Christ alone.” — Jordan Cooper [06:03]
  • “Faith is simply that which brings us into what Christ has done for us.” — Gavin Ortlund [07:52]
• Warns against understanding faith as the “one new work” God requires.

4. Pastoral Comfort: The Security Found in Christ’s Righteousness

[13:41 – 18:24]

• Justification gives a legal security before God, not based on fluctuating internal experience or progress:
  • “If it’s not legal, it’s not secure.” — Jordan Cooper [12:08]
  • “The judge is the very one who is currently our advocate and intercessor in heaven.” — Michael Horton [13:41]
• Quoting Ambrose: Christ as both judge and advocate—provides tremendous assurance for the believer.
  • “Can Christ then condemn you when he has redeemed you from death and offered himself on your behalf?” — Gavin Ortlund (reading Ambrose) [16:05]

5. Human Longing for Justification—A Universal Problem

[17:48 – 19:05]

• Secular societies may seem less obsessed with righteousness, but humans still long for justification—now often through achievement or social approval.
  • “You can be an atheist ... your whole life is defined by justification by works. You’re trying to make yourself right through what you accomplish.” — Michael Horton [18:24]

6. Imputed vs Infused Righteousness: The “Formal Cause” Debate

[19:48 – 21:10]

• Protestant doctrines stress the verdict rests on Christ’s perfect righteousness imputed to us, not our internal sanctification (which always remains imperfect).
  • “What I’m going to stand on on Judgment Day is not that [internal transformation]—it can’t be. I need the perfect righteousness of Christ.” — Michael Horton [20:50]
• Contrasts to the Catholic/Orthodox model that blends sanctification into justification, producing insecurity and the notion of purgatory as a further purification.
  • “Rome collapses sanctification into justification ... we know that that’s why purgatory is there.” — Jordan Cooper [21:40]

7. Biblical Support and Historical Confessions

[22:59 – 26:04]

• Romans 4 and Zechariah 3: Justification as “credited righteousness” and the exchange of garments as a metaphor.
  • “Our viewers can understand clothing as a great metaphor for the imputation of Christ’s righteousness.” — Michael Horton [23:37]
• Lutheran Formula of Concord: Justification is the forensic declaration (positive plus negative: imputation of righteousness and non-imputation of sin), with adoption closely linked.
  • “That righteousness includes both Christ’s active fulfillment of the law ... as well as his suffering on our behalf.” — Gavin Ortlund [25:13]

8. Answering the ‘Legal Fiction’ Critique

[26:04 – 27:35]

• Justification is not a legal fiction but reality grounded in the real obedience and sacrifice of Christ—His merits “really are mine.”
  • “We’re saying this is not a legal fiction. ... It’s a reality of a penalty Jesus paid, of a positive righteousness Jesus fulfilled.” — Gavin Ortlund [27:12]

9. Historical Theology: Augustine, the Fathers, and the Reformation

[27:35 – 32:09]

• The lack of clarity and development before the Reformation; Augustine’s reliance on Latin translation led to “making” righteous (rather than “declaring”).
  • “It’s an honest mistake if you don’t read Greek.” — Jordan Cooper [28:39]
• The “great exchange” (Christ takes our debts, we receive His riches) is a patristic theme, not just Reformation innovation.
  • “There was a consensus on the marvelous exchange.” — Jordan Cooper [30:53]

10. Paul and James: Are They Contradictory?

[34:00 – 39:39]

• The apparent contradiction (Romans 3:28 vs. James 2:24) is resolved with attention to context and language:
  • James addresses vindication—the evidence of living faith—rather than the means of being declared righteous before God.
    • “We do have ... other places where justification is not tied ... to explicit soteriological definition ... when Jesus says, ‘wisdom is justified by her children.’” — Gavin Ortlund [36:30]
  • Luther: There is a justification by works—outward, visible proof of inward reality, but this is not what Paul means by justification before God.
    • “In this disputation, Luther just very explicitly says there is a justification by works. ... Outwardly, nobody will see my faith.” — Gavin Ortlund [37:08]
  • Protestants affirm the necessity of good works—not as grounds, but as fruit.
    • “We want our viewers to understand Protestants believe in the necessity of good works and everything James is saying there.” — Michael Horton [39:39]

11. Faith Alone—but Not Alone

[41:48 – 42:43]

• “We’re justified by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone.”—attributes to Calvin.
  • True faith, while alone justifying, always produces transformation and love.

12. Final Pastoral Encouragement

[41:48 – end]

• One does not need perfect doctrinal understanding to be justified; the focus is Christ Himself.
  • “You don’t have to have perfect understanding of all the technicalities of justification to be justified ... What we ultimately want to direct people to is Christ Himself and the disposition of the heart to Him.” — Michael Horton [41:48]
• The justified love: Christians are not justified by their own love, but by God’s love in Christ, which then transforms believers’ own love.
  • “It’s not technically true that we’re not justified by love—we’re just not justified by our own love.” — Gavin Ortlund (referencing Sartorius) [43:30]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We’re not justified by love, but the justified love.” — Jordan Cooper [01:11, 42:43]
• “Faith justifies because it grasps Christ.” — Gavin Ortlund [07:32]
• “If it’s not legal, it’s not secure. And so it is actually good news that we have a legal relationship to God.” — Jordan Cooper [12:08]
• “The judge is the very one who is currently our advocate and intercessor in heaven.” — Michael Horton [13:41]
• “We’re justified by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone.” — Paraphrasing Calvin [41:48]
• “There was a consensus on the marvelous exchange.” — Jordan Cooper [30:53]
• “It can sound like James and Paul are just flatly contradicting each other ... It’s like an American and a Brit arguing whether football is the best sport.” — Michael Horton [09:53]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:47] – Roman Catholic & Protestant definitions of justification
• [04:06] – Forensic vs. transformative
• [06:03] – Faith as instrument, not merit
• [08:18] – Defining key terms: forensic, imputation, faith
• [13:41] – Pastoral comfort: Christ as judge and advocate
• [17:48–18:24] – Universal longing for justification
• [19:48–21:10] – Imputed vs. infused righteousness: the "formal cause"
• [23:37] – Zechariah 3: The clothing metaphor
• [25:13] – The Lutheran Formula of Concord summarized
• [27:12] – “Legal fiction” objection answered
• [30:53] – Patristic roots of “the great exchange”
• [34:00–38:04] – Paul vs. James, and Luther’s handling of James 2
• [39:29] – Necessity of good works in Protestant teaching
• [41:48] – Final encouragement: we’re justified by faith alone, but not a faith that is alone

Tone and Style

• The discussion is theological yet approachable, frequently looping back to practical comfort and assurance for believers. The presenters are careful to define technical terms and to keep the focus on Christ and the heart of the gospel, aware of the struggles and misunderstandings their audience may face.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This episode serves as a robust defense and clarification of the Reformation doctrine of sola fide (faith alone), insightfully addressing objections from church history, scripture, and everyday experience, with a continual focus on Christ’s finished work as the believer’s only hope and assurance. If you’re wrestling with questions about faith, works, assurance, or the relevance of “justification” today, you’ll find clarity, historical depth, and pastoral warmth here.