Podcast Summary: "What Is the Gospel, Really? Responding to John Mark Comer and Scot McKnight"

Know What You Believe with Michael Horton
Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Michael Horton
Key Guests Discussed: John Mark Comer, Scot McKnight

Episode Overview

In this episode, Michael Horton examines and responds to the current conversations and debates surrounding the definition and content of the Gospel, especially as taught by figures like John Mark Comer and scholar Scot McKnight. With Comer's growing influence among Gen Z and his emphasis on discipleship, alongside McKnight's push for a narrative, "King Jesus" Gospel, Horton seeks clarity: What, at its core, is the Gospel? The discussion navigates the boundaries between discipleship, ethical teaching, the identity and work of Jesus, and classical Christian doctrines, aiming to equip listeners for thoughtful engagement—both within and beyond the church.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. John Mark Comer's Impact and Gospel Criticism (00:54–04:28)

• Rise of Comer: Comer's work is highly influential among younger Christians. Brad East notes, “Now it’s Comer's world and we’re all just living in it.” (00:54)
• Comer's Critique: He laments churches failing to teach a "robust kingdom view of the Gospel," especially discipleship. He repeatedly hears, “I've been a Christian for 20... 35 years. I have never heard anybody talk about this before.” (01:54)
• Discipleship as the Gospel?: For Comer, preaching discipleship and apprenticeship to Jesus is foundational—“Kingdom of God, the Gospel of the Kingdom. This is basic cursory reading... and this is new information to them.” (02:39)

Horton's Counterpoint

• Horton challenges this, suggesting that many traditions have long emphasized discipleship—citing Dallas Willard and common evangelical teachings (02:58).
• Key Distinction: “It’s not just following Jesus’ example, it is listening to Jesus tell us who he is and what he's come to do... Discipleship entails learning not just by watching and by following an example, but hearing the words of eternal life from the Messiah himself.” (03:38)

2. What Is the Gospel? Kingdom Narrative vs. Narrow Definition (04:28–09:28)

• Comer's Teaching: Opens a series by asking, “What is the gospel?” and posits that many Christians have at best incomplete answers. He references Scot McKnight's idea: "The Gospels are the gospel." (04:28)

  • McKnight: “The entire story, open in your lap, from Mark chapter 1, verse 1, all the way to the end, the last paragraph, all of it is the gospel.” (05:54, quoted by Comer)

• Horton’s Clarification:

  • He notes that, while all four Gospels proclaim Jesus, not everything in them is "the gospel" in the narrow sense—e.g., Jesus’ commands summarize the law, not the good news of what Christ has done. (06:18)
  • Horton: “That’s not the gospel in the narrower sense… much of what Jesus says is law... meant to show us our hearts... so that we will look to him for salvation.” (06:50)

3. Gospel Content: Is Preaching Jesus Enough? (09:08–10:52)

• Comer’s View: "Anytime I announce anything about Jesus—his birth, his death, his incarnation, his teachings, his miracles... the great tradition of discipleship... I am preaching the Gospel of Jesus." (09:08)

  • He challenges the “John 3:16 Gospel” as simplistic: "If you search for that in the Gospel in front of you... you are hard-pressed to find anything remotely close to that in any of the four gospels of Jesus." (10:23)

• Horton’s Response:

  • Horton: “What you’re preaching is following Jesus. The Gospel is the basis for our following Jesus... I can only know that I belong to God in Christ because he saved me, because of what he's done, not because of how well I've followed.” (09:28)
  • Corrects Comer’s dismissal of “going to heaven” gospel: “He’s quoted John 3:16 in the gospel, the fourth gospel. So clearly one can't say that there's nothing remotely close to that in the Gospels.” (10:52)

4. Scot McKnight’s “King Jesus” Gospel: Narrative and Critique (11:27–19:24)

• McKnight’s Thesis: “1 Corinthians 15 is fleshed out in the Gospel sermons of Acts and the Gospels flesh out the gospel sermons in Acts... the gospel is the story about Jesus Christ.” (11:27)

  • McKnight eschews reducing the gospel to doctrines like justification, instead seeing the whole narrative—Jesus arriving, living, dying, rising, ascending—as the gospel itself (15:35).

• Horton’s Analysis:

  • While affirming McKnight’s emphasis on Jesus, Horton insists this can present a false dichotomy: “What do you mean the gospel is about Jesus?… what does it mean for Christ to be King?” (12:08)
  • Points out, “You can’t separate... justification, new birth, sanctification... from the story of Jesus...” and challenges the reduction of gospel to only narrative rather than specific redemptive acts (13:51).

• Key Quotes:

  • McKnight: “The gospel is the story about Jesus that fulfills Israel’s story.” (15:35)
  • Horton: “Whatever the Jesus story is, it has to fulfill the story of Israel, including…the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” (15:52)

5. The Relationship of Person and Work: Christology vs. Soteriology (17:23–22:31)

• McKnight’s Distinction:

  • “We have to distinguish between the benefits of the gospel and the gospel itself. … Christology precedes soteriology in the framing of the gospel.” (17:23)
  • Avoids making Jesus merely “an agent of the gospel rather than the subject.”
  • Emphasizes the concrete Jesus: “Not in an abstract theological way. I mean the guy in sandals in Galilee who shows up in the Gospels and we have to begin there…” (19:24)

• Horton’s Nuanced Agreement:

  • “Christology comes before soteriology. We have to know who Christ is to know the significance of what he accomplished… It's more bound up, more dialectical than this comes first and that comes first.” (18:10)
  • Draws from Athanasius, illustrating that Christ had to be both God and man, reflecting this interdependence of person and work (18:50).
  • Concludes, “You can't really distinguish even between the person of Jesus and the work of Jesus, because the work Jesus came to do is essential to his hypostatic union… His whole life, even beginning as a zygote in the womb of the Virgin Mary, was redemptive, was salvation, was the gospel.” (21:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Comer's Influence:
  "My students appear not only to be reading him, but to be reading no one else. Once it was Lewis and Chesterton... now it's Comer's world and we're all just living in it." (00:54, Brad East, quoted by Horton)

• On Discipleship & Gospel:
  "If the gospel is discipleship, then essentially the gospel is law... something we do, not the good news of what Christ has done for us." (08:11, Horton)

• On Narrative vs. Doctrinal Gospel:
  "The gospel is the story about Jesus Christ. I would pose justification or justice or Jesus..." (11:27, McKnight)

• On Person vs. Work:
  "You can't really distinguish even between the person of Jesus and the work of Jesus... His whole life... was redemptive, was salvation, was the gospel." (21:20, Horton)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:54-01:54 | Introduction of John Mark Comer’s influence and critique | | 01:54-03:38 | Comer and Horton on discipleship and gospel basics | | 04:28-06:18 | What is the gospel? Comer and McKnight’s narrative focus | | 08:11-09:28 | Law vs. gospel and the risk of focusing only on following | | 11:27-15:35 | Scot McKnight on the "King Jesus Gospel"; Acts and Gospels | | 17:23-19:24 | Christology before soteriology; McKnight and Horton’s exchange | | 21:20-22:31 | Horton’s conclusion: The indivisibility of person and work |

Summary & Takeaways

Michael Horton’s episode offers a thoughtful, occasionally pointed engagement with popular trends in gospel teaching, especially the kingdom- and discipleship-focused models championed by John Mark Comer and Scot McKnight. Horton welcomes their narrative and Christocentric emphases but warns against blurring the distinction between gospel as divine achievement (what Christ has done) and gospel as human imitation or ethical call (what we do). He highlights the theological necessity of holding together Christ’s person and work: the gospel is, inseparably, who Jesus is and what he has objectively accomplished for sinners. Ultimately, the episode is a call for clarity, humility, and depth in understanding and proclaiming the Gospel in an increasingly fragmented age.