#1115: March 10, 2006

Summary

Knowledge Fight #1115: March 10, 2006

Release Date: February 9, 2026
Hosts: Dan and Jordan

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dan and Jordan revisit the March 10, 2006 broadcast of The Alex Jones Show. Their main aim is to analyze and dissect memorable calls, conspiratorial rants, and the often contradictory logic of Alex Jones during this era. The conversation pivots from Nostradamus conspiracies and 9/11 trutherism to dubious medical claims and grifty ads, exploring how Alex Jones’ style, rhetoric, and grifting techniques have evolved—or stayed the same—over time. The episode also examines the pitfalls of fear-based marketing and the problematic way sensational anti-pharma content can easily bleed into pure pseudoscience.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Bright Spot Segment & Opening Banter

Timestamps: 01:10–05:00

• Jordan’s bright spot: Fulfilling a previous “non-bright spot” by getting Dan a pair of coveted sweatpants. Jordan and his wife set high standards for comfort, creating an inside joke around the ritual of what to wear while recording.
• Dan’s bright spot: Facing his internalized feelings about visible tattoos, he gets his first openly visible ink—a magic spell from the video game "Eternal Darkness"—symbolic of healing and restoring energy. The two reminisce about the meaning and addictive nature of getting new tattoos:
  • “My experience can't take away from yours.” — Dan (02:00)
  • “Who gives a world's ending? Such a great attitude to have.” — Jordan (06:42)

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2. Listener Shoutouts & Sonic Adventure 2 Chow Tangent

Timestamps: 07:23–09:16

• Policy wonk shout-outs segue into a tangent about Sonic Adventure 2’s Chow raising mini-game, nostalgia for old video game systems, and a bit of absurdist banter typical of the hosts' style.

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3. The Nostradamus Caller: Surreal Conspiracies and Alex’s Skepticism

Timestamps: 10:27–17:37

• Alex takes a call from “Cameron,” who claims Nostradamus accurately predicted 9/11, with bizarre specifics about hijacker Mohamed Atta bringing the West Nile virus to New York.
  • “Muhammad Atta brought the West Nile virus with him and unleashed it…” — Nostradamus caller (11:11)
• Alex immediately mocks Nostradamus prophecies as “pure tribe" and is visibly annoyed by the call:
  • “I'm not here to make friends... This is NOT a variety show.” — Alex Jones (16:19)
• Dan and Jordan reflect on the innocence of 2006 conspiracies (“good, clean fun”) compared to the present era’s sharper edge:
  • “I hate to say it, but it’s good, clean fun compared to what we live with now.” — Dan (12:44)
• The hosts question whether the caller is a real believer or a prankster, but appreciate that the surreal takes annoy Alex, which feels like a wholesome use of early conspiracy-mongering radio.

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4. Alex Jones’ Prophecy, Prediction Grifts, and Aversive Comparison with Psychics

Timestamps: 18:18–28:48

• Alex describes how he “predicted” 9/11, drawing a distinction between rational, research-based prophecy (his own) and supernatural fraud (Nostradamus and psychics):
  • “From deep study… and deep meditation…true, the highest form of intelligence, which I have, organically.” — Alex (23:42)
• The hosts call out the obvious grift: making endless inconsistent predictions, then highlighting the few that “came true”—a classic psychic/con-man trick.
  • “He knows what he’s doing. He’s able to articulate how what they do is a scam. So it’s impossible to pretend that he doesn’t get it. Yeah, he knows how. He’s fucking with people.” — Dan (22:05)
• They note Alex’s later revisionism: in hindsight, he claims his insights were divine revelation, not research:
  • “God sends him some jolt, he can do magic. But if you confront him… it’s not gonna work.” — Dan (25:04)

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5. Misreading of Prophecy & Biblical Misinterpretations

Timestamps: 33:39–39:27

• Alex tries to distance himself from Nostradamus by referencing the Bible’s Revelation as “real prophecy.” He hilariously paraphrases—and misrepresents—biblical lines, mistaking ancient mourning rituals (throwing dust on one’s head) as literal predictions of 9/11’s aftermath.
  • “The act of throwing dust on one’s head is something that’s frequently done to express despair… Alex doesn’t really care about the Bible… he just sees the word dust and decides it must be about 9/11.” — Dan (36:05)
• The hosts dig into the origins of cultural signifiers like “throwing dust on one’s head,” noting how prophecy gets misused to fit modern narratives.

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6. Shifting 9/11 Narratives: From Standard Trutherism to the Nerve Gas Theory

Timestamps: 40:34–44:13

• Alex pivots to a new (at the time) 9/11 truther take: Mohamed Atta and others were government agents, nerve-gassed on the planes, which were then remote controlled into the Twin Towers.
  • “Mohammed Atta didn’t do anything. Mohammed Atta was a US agent who thought he was taking part in drills. He was nerve-gassed on board those aircraft...” — Alex (41:11)
• The hosts highlight the contradictions and shifting narratives in Alex’s storytelling, tailored to whatever audience he’s entertaining or whatever scapegoats are needed.

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7. Conspiracy Ecosystem: The Plant Caller and Self-Reinforcing Paranoia

Timestamps: 43:47–45:41

• The next caller reassures Alex that the Nostradamus guy was “an agent” planted to distract him, reinforcing the show’s culture of suspicion and persecution. Dan and Jordan liken this dynamic to a bar full of Alex’s 2006 callers, each feeding the other’s paranoia.
  • “That guy’s a plant. I didn’t ask for this!” — Jordan (44:24)

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8. Fear-Mongering Ad Break: “Prudent Places USA” and the Survivalist Grift

Timestamps: 46:06–49:21

• Alex runs an ad for “Prudent Places USA”—a disaster CD-ROM marketed by his sponsor, a water filter company, further illustrating the symbiotic, fear-driven sales tactics at play.
  • “New Millennium Concepts doesn’t sell water filters because they’re passionate about cleaner water… It’s easy to sell using fear, and Alex’s show is a fear-based marketing setup.” — Dan (47:05)
• The hosts note how the show engineers anxiety, then offers expensive solutions—from filters to bug-out maps—that “solve” the very fear it creates.

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9. Anti-Pharma Documentarian Guests & Questionable Storytelling

Timestamps: 51:00–59:34

• Alex brings on “Emmy-winning” guest Robert Mancero to complain about his anti-antidepressant documentary being rejected by SXSW, spinning a victim narrative of censorship. The hosts quickly deduce Mancero’s career has mostly involved minor or local projects, and his storytelling about climbing the Disney ranks is likely embellished.
  • “I was a temp, and by that I mean I wasn’t a temp… That’s like a person who imagines—OK, so I’m an extra on some things, then I was so good I’m now starring…” — Dan (52:31)
• Mancero’s documentary, “Prescription Suicide,” presents a one-sided collection of family testimonies blaming SSRIs for suicides, with no fact-checking, scientific rigor, or counter-narratives:
  • “There’s no experts, there’s no doctors telling you facts. It's just the families telling you what happened.” — Robert Mancero (57:24)
  • “It’s about blaming medications for people committing suicide. His documentary is flawed in the concept, and from an execution standpoint, it sounds artless.” — Dan (58:17)

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10. Gwen Olson: Anti-Pharma Memoirist & Dangerous Anecdotes

Timestamps: 63:00–71:15

• Guest Gwen Olson pushes her book "Confessions of a Prescription Drug Pusher and God's Call to Loving Arms," blending personal trauma with aggressive anti-medication proselytizing. Dan clarifies that while skepticism of Big Pharma sales tactics is warranted, Olson’s personal tragedy and religious interpretation bleed into broad, dangerous claims:
  • “Her argument expands to being anti-medication in a way that her story does not earn… I resent this book and I think her approach and the impact of that book has done far more damage to people’s mental health than anything she did as a pharmaceutical rep.” — Dan (68:38)
• The hosts call out the overreach of anecdotal, family-driven anti-medication arguments, especially when deployed as cudgels against science-based medical care.

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11. Big Pharma Criticism vs. Medical Quackery: The LiesMed, Inc. Cancer Ad

Timestamps: 78:04–81:34

• In a wild juxtaposition, Alex airs an ad for LiesMed Inc., a laser "cancer cure" company later prosecuted for fraud. The ad boasts "no side effects," making Alex's anti-pharma moralizing immediately hypocritical.
  • “I’d take Alex’s shit about antidepressants… more seriously if he wasn’t accepting ad money from this wildly irresponsible and fraudulent company.” — Dan (79:40)
  • “You’re just saying, ‘oh, I have magic.’” — Jordan (81:00)
• The hosts recount the tragedy behind the scam: “patients” refused legitimate care, worsened, and sometimes died, in part due to Alex’s platforming of such predatory grift.

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12. Ron Paul Call-In: “Impeach Bush!”, Executive Power, and Lost Libertarian Hopes

Timestamps: 86:52–89:35

• Congressman Ron Paul calls in to discuss the (then) looming Democratic takeover of Congress and possible impeachment proceedings for Bush. Alex is enthusiastic about “punishing the executive branch,” a stance at odds with later years’ defense of Trump-era abuses.
  • “I think anything that diminishes the power of the executive branch or central government is beneficial to the people…” — Ron Paul (87:49)
  • “I will 100% support the opposite of this a little bit down the road when your son is a bummer…” — Dan (88:12)

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13. Legacy, Reflections, and Scandal Tangent

Timestamps: 91:41–96:14

• Dan and Jordan ruminate on how 20 years of shifting political and conspiracy landscapes transformed Alex’s worldview, and how libertarian figures like the Paul family facilitated the far-right pipeline eventually seized by Trumpism.
• The episode wraps with an extended riff on changing eras, Juggalo culture, and the latest far-right influencer scandal, underscoring the circus-like absurdity and tragedy of this whole ecosystem.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Nostradamus Caller:
  “What did Nostradamus think of Giuliani? … You're getting visions of the future… and then Giuliani pops up.” — Jordan (13:23)

• On Alex’s Grift Awareness:
  “He’s able to articulate how what they [psychics] do is a scam. So it’s impossible to pretend that he doesn’t get it.” — Dan (22:05)

• On Contradictory 9/11 Theories:
  “My version is correct. My version goes off the facts… My version will change in six months.” — Jordan (42:26)

• On the Quack Cancer Ad:
  “We can destroy tumors of any size without adverse side effects…” — Alex’s Ad Copy (78:40)

• On Fear Merchandising:
  “Alex’s content is a feeding mechanism that creates the fear that the products he sells are meant to alleviate. It’s a predatory cycle…” — Dan (47:05)

• On Anti-Pharma Anecdotes:
  “The goal of any mental health intervention is to make your life more boring. Yeah, that is the goal.” — Jordan (62:20)

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Episode Structure & Key Timestamps

• Bright Spot, Banter, Show Intro: 00:04–07:17
• Policy Wonk Shoutouts & Sonic Tangent: 07:23–10:09
• Nostradamus Caller & Early 2006 Conspiracies: 10:27–17:37
• Alex’s Prediction Grift & Distinction from Psychics: 18:18–28:48
• Misreading Prophecies & Biblical Spinning: 33:39–39:27
• Nerve-Gas 9/11 Theory: 40:34–44:13
• Caller Claims Plant/Agent Disruption: 43:47–45:41
• Survivalist Ad Analysis: 46:06–49:21
• Robert Mancero Guest Segment: 51:00–59:34
• Gwen Olson’s Memoir & Anti-Pharma Arguments: 63:00–71:15
• LiesMed Cancer Ad & Fraud Analysis: 78:04–81:34
• Ron Paul Segment: 86:52–89:35
• Wrap-up, Scandal, and Closing: 91:41–end

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Tone & Style Notes

The episode combines sharp sarcasm, critical analysis, personal anecdotes, and bantering asides. Dan and Jordan employ humor to underscore the surreal and often tragicomic nature of 2000s conspiracy media, while grounding their criticism in a genuine concern for the public harm Alex’s rhetoric and grifts have perpetuated.

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Takeaway

This episode is a time capsule: it captures the evolution of American conspiracism, the grifter ecosystem, and the alarming ease with which snake oil, paranoia, and sensationalism coalesce. 2006 Alex was already laying the groundwork for symbiotic scam marketing, epistemic chaos, and the normalization of self-reinforcing paranoia—an instructive listen for anyone tracking the roots and consequences of InfoWars’ legacy.

Transcript

[Jordan]

Red alert.

[Dan]

Red alert. Red alert. Red alert.

[Jordan]

Red alert.

[Dan]

Red alert.

[Jordan]

Red alert.

[Dan]

Red alert. Red alert.

[Alex Jones]

Knowledge Fight.

[Dan]

Dan and Jordan.

[Alex Jones]

I am sweating. Knowledgebody.com. it's time to pray. I have great respect for Knowledge fight. Knowledge and flight. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys. Knowledge fight.

[Jordan]

Dan and Jordan.

[Alex Jones]

Knowledge Fight.

[Dan]

Need.

[Jordan]

Need money.

[Alex Jones]

Andy in Kansas. Andy and Andy, stop it.

[Jordan]

Andy in Kansas.

[Alex Jones]

Andy in Kansas. It's time to pray. Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding us.

[Dan]

Hello, Alex.

[Caller]

I'm a. I'm a huge fan.

[Alex Jones]

I love your word. Knowledge fight. Knowledge fight dot com.

[Dan]

I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to knowledge Fight. I'm Dan.

[Jordan]

I'm Jordan.

[Dan]

We're a couple dudes like to worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.

[Jordan]

Oh, indeed we are. Dan, Jordan.

[Dan]

Dan, Jordan.

[Jordan]

Quick question for you.

[Dan]

What's up?

[Jordan]

What's your bright spot today, buddy?

[Dan]

Well, it is still February and so that means you go first.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

As is tradition.

[Jordan]

As is tradition. My bright spot is a fulfillment of my previous non bright spot. Hey, how about that, my friend? You got yourself some sweatpants.

[Dan]

I do and I'm thrilled. Honestly. I wanted to just put them on, but then I'd have to take off my shoes and everything and I'm going to. I'm going to put them on as soon as you leave and I will let you know. I'll give you a full report. I'm excited, though.

[Jordan]

I expect nothing less. And I fully expect you to be wearing them at our next recording.

[Dan]

You have set. You and your wife, quite frankly, have set the bar incredibly high for these things, though. Like, I don't know if they can live up to the hype if they.

[Jordan]

Don'T deliver for you. That doesn't bother me because they delivered for me, my friend.

[Dan]

Sure.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And my experience can't take away from yours.

[Jordan]

No, it can't.

[Dan]

But hey, who knows? I don't think I. I'm a sweatpants snob.

[Jordan]

We'll find out. I'm hoping that you like them. Realistically, just so I can then wear my pants to record to.

[Dan]

You could do that anyway.

[Jordan]

No, I can't.

[Dan]

You're welcome to.

[Jordan]

No, no, no. You can't have one person in jeans and one person in sweatpants. There's a very clear problem there.

[Dan]

I think when they're you and I. Yes, you can, because you're spiritually already in sweatpants and I should be wearing slacks. Or something, you know, like.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Dan]

Every time before we start recording. Sometimes I will not on and I will put on shoes.

[Jordan]

Rogers style.

[Dan]

I don't feel like I can record the show in sandals or without shoes on.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Same doesn't apply to you.

[Jordan]

I, I understand that, but you know, when in Rome, if we were recording in my place, we're both wearing sweat or I'm wearing sweatpants at least. But I'm coming in.

[Dan]

I'm still wearing shoes.

[Jordan]

Yeah, well, of course.

[Dan]

Even if I'm in your house.

[Jordan]

Listen, you wear shoes in my house. I wouldn't. I wouldn't suggest not wearing shoes.

[Dan]

Dogs all over the place.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Dan]

Well, thank you. And thank you to your wife. It was very sweet.

[Jordan]

You are welcome. And she was so excited to get them for you.

[Dan]

That's wonderful. So nice. So nice.

[Jordan]

Yes. What's your bright spot?

[Dan]

Well, Jordan, I realized that I had not a bright spot, but a dark spot. And I'm pointing at you.

[Jordan]

I can feel it. See this? I do. I sense it right now.

[Dan]

The dark spot was me.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And here's why.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

We are the tech guys.

[Jordan]

That's true.

[Dan]

That was our phone number for a while. And I realized that I was not living up to my end of the bargain.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

You were getting tats.

[Jordan]

I was.

[Dan]

And I was not getting tats.

[Jordan]

You were not.

[Dan]

And so I decided to rectify that by getting a new tattoo.

[Jordan]

Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

[Dan]

This is the first tattoo that I've gotten that is not or is exposed when you're wearing short sleeve shirts.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

The other things would be covered by that. So this is very vulnerable and public in a way that I cannot hide it. So it's a real new life. It's a real new jump off point for me. Yeah. Um, it's. It's an. It's an interesting feeling.

[Jordan]

I bet.

[Dan]

Just have. Like, I can't hide this.

[Jordan]

My family or my, my dad specifically. No tattoos. I don't know tattoos. So until I was maybe 26, all of my tattoos were coverable.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Every single one of them. They didn't know I had tattoos until a few years ago.

[Dan]

I love tattoos and I don't judge people who have them. Even in like, I don't know, your face or your hands or very visible places. I don't judge. But I realized that I did have some internalized judgment, like when it came to. All right, am I going to do this myself?

[Jordan]

Sure. I gotcha.

[Dan]

And I had to confront that a tiny bit. But yeah, worked through it. I got A spell from the game Eternal Darkness.

[Jordan]

Nice.

[Dan]

One of my old favorite games.

[Jordan]

I like it.

[Dan]

Some real fond memories of getting stoned and hanging out with Nikki. Gifts and getting scared of games.

[Jordan]

That is what tattoos are for, I swear to God. Yep.

[Dan]

Yeah. It's a magic spell for a spell called the Magic Pool.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

And the effect that it has in the game, it's actually a little bit of a cheat, kind of.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

Because if you get this spell, it'll create something over you that gradually restores your health and sanity. Sure. And kind of makes it like, eh, anything can hit me, but I'll recover.

[Jordan]

Right. Right.

[Dan]

Because I can keep hitting this spell.

[Jordan]

It's a borderline infinite health hack.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But it's in the game.

[Jordan]

It's in the what? You can't not use it.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

If they broke the game, you get to use it.

[Dan]

It's not like these Lovecraftian horrors are going to, like, play fair.

[Jordan]

Yeah. That's true.

[Dan]

Yeah. If you have this at your disposal, you got to use it.

[Jordan]

That is true. Yeah.

[Dan]

So just nothing but fond memories about the playing this game.

[Jordan]

And it looks great.

[Dan]

Yeah. That's still healing up. But I'll post a picture for people.

[Jordan]

To enjoy when the time is right.

[Dan]

But yeah, I'm. I'm going to get some more.

[Jordan]

Absolutely. You got the. You got the feeling now that you didn't have the last time.

[Dan]

What do you mean? Like the.

[Jordan]

I mean that. Yeah. Like, Like, I don't know when it happened. Maybe it was my third tattoo where I was like, I'm going to be getting tattoos forever.

[Dan]

Oh, no. This is my third.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And I felt it after each one.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And then I just didn't have more ideas of things to do or I put things on a back burner.

[Jordan]

Gotcha.

[Dan]

Or was like, I'll get around to it later. But I did want to after each.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

I think there may just be, like, follow through.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Now that happens.

[Dan]

Because who gives a.

[Jordan]

Who gives a world's ending? Such a great attitude to have it.

[Dan]

So. Yeah. That's. That's what I'm up to.

[Jordan]

I like it.

[Dan]

Yeah. Yeah. Today we got an episode to go over, Jordan.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

We're staying in the past.

[Jordan]

Hell yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's good times back then, baby.

[Jordan]

It is good times.

[Dan]

2006 is hitting pretty well right now. Yeah. So we're going to talk about March 10, 2006, and honestly, I kind of had a iffy position on this particular episode for reasons that we'll discuss as it goes.

[Jordan]

Along. Okay.

[Dan]

But I decided, ah, fuck it. It's a different flavor. Let's do it. So we'll do that.

[Jordan]

Excellent.

[Dan]

In a moment. But first, let's take a moment to say hello to some new wonks.

[Jordan]

Oh, that's a great idea.

[Dan]

So first, to all the wonks in the Facebook group, but a special shout out to me. I just passed my FA F I N R A licensing exams. So now when somebody asks me, how's my 401k doing, bro? I will legally be allowed to answer them. Thank you so much. You're now policy wonk.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Thank you. Next Chows From Sonic Adventure 2 battle are the Chimeras Alex has been warning us about. Thank you so much. You're now policy wonk.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

You thought I was going to say chaos, didn't you?

[Jordan]

I did think you were going to say chaos, but is that not how it's pronounced?

[Dan]

No, it's the chaos. It's like the little baby things that are like the. Those birds in Final Fantasy.

[Jordan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

The Pokebows.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Chocobos.

[Dan]

Chocobos.

[Jordan]

Yeah. All right.

[Dan]

They're like that, the little kind of.

[Jordan]

Things, but it's spelled chaos.

[Dan]

Yeah. Chow.

[Jordan]

All right, that's fine. No, I get it. I understand the concept.

[Dan]

You can get them to race each other. That's in Sonic Adventure 2 battles traditional Chocobos. If you hit them, they turn evil.

[Jordan]

Not. Well, actually, it is a little bit chocobo y. If you hit them, they'll. They'll fight you back.

[Dan]

Yeah. Or if you just raise them with the evil characters too much, I think they also turn evil.

[Jordan]

Oh, well, that'll just happen.

[Dan]

Dr. Robotnik.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

If you go in there and hang out with the chows as Dr. Robotnik, he'll, like, pet them and go, yush. Very cool. Memory.

[Jordan]

Yosh.

[Dan]

Next. I'm a bearded trans lady from Buttfuck, Kentucky, funded by the globalist to study philosophy. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Thank you. And we get technical credit. Mix Jordan. So thank you so much to shout out from big Taco from Austin. Always on the prowl to crop dust Alex J. At any restaurant, sporting event, solar eclipse, chicken, fish fry or pill factory around town. Thank you so much. You're an Iowa technocrat.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Caller]

4 stars. Go home to your mother and tell her you're Brilliant.

[Alex Jones]

Someone, Someone. Sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy Shark. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.

[Jordan]

He's a loser.

[Alex Jones]

Little, little kitty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce. Jesus Christ.

[Dan]

Thank you.

[Jordan]

Yes. Thank you very much.

[Dan]

So In Sonic Adventure 2 battle, they're like in order, 100% it. You had to do the little chow side stuff.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

It's. It was infuriating. Like there's the whole game and you can just play those levels. Yeah. And get better at them.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But with the Chows, you got to raise them. You got to keep feeding them like they're Tamagotchi pets and stuff. And you gotta. You gotta train them and influence them to become good or evil. Oh, such an annoying aspect of that game.

[Jordan]

Yeah. That doesn't sound fun at all.

[Dan]

No, but I did do it.

[Jordan]

Course you did.

[Dan]

Hundo'd that?

[Jordan]

I've been there before, my friend.

[Dan]

Yep. So like I said, I had some iffy feelings about whether or not we would cover this episode, but it became worthwhile. And one of the reasons that I was kind of on the fence about it is a little boring at the beginning.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

It started a bit slow.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

And so there's nothing really to talk about until a ways into the first hour when Alex gets to taking some calls, of course, he goes to the phones and he gets a call from a guy who wants to talk to him about Nostradamus.

[Jordan]

Now I am so in.

[Dan]

Yeah. So here is where this call begins. Excellent.

[Alex Jones]

Let's go ahead and talk to Cameron. And Cameron, where you calling us from today?

[Dan]

Hello?

[Alex Jones]

Yeah. Sounds like you're on a speakerphone. Are you there, sir?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Jordan]

How are you, Alex? Good.

[Alex Jones]

You're on the air, sir.

[Caller]

Great. I have some breaking news for your listeners regarding 9 11.

[Alex Jones]

Okay.

[Caller]

The Prophet Nostra Amnest. You know him, right?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

Put absolutely no stock on it. It's. It's just pure, pure tribe.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, yeah. He said that In July of 1999, the King of Terror would come from the sky. And everyone thinks nothing happened. But actually something did happen in July of 1999. 911 hijacker Muhammad Atta first came to the United States by plane. Also In July of 1999, the West Nile virus appeared in New York City. It's my belief that that piece of garbage brought that over with them and unleashed it to New York.

[Jordan]

So sorry.

[Alex Jones]

And so he act. He works for the Arabs, right? He's.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes. So. So that Giuliani could set up the World Trade center command center in case of biological attack. You see, Ada brought the West Nile virus with him and unleashed it so that Giuliani could tell us more.

[Alex Jones]

Tell us what?

[Dan]

You.

[Alex Jones]

From the tea leaves of Nostradamus?

[Dan]

Well, that.

[Caller]

That's what I. That's what I know.

[Dan]

What an asshole.

[Jordan]

Wow. Wow.

[Dan]

So rude.

[Jordan]

What a dick.

[Dan]

What did you tell me more about this Nostradamus fellow that you're so, so friendly with?

[Jordan]

I. I could not be happier with the idea. Well, here's. Okay, here's my problem with living in a fascist dystopia. Right? You don't get that now. You don't get that.

[Dan]

Nope.

[Jordan]

When you're living in a more reasonable time, unreasonable people have a flavor to them.

[Dan]

2006, you get a guy calling in. I have breaking news about 9 11. I read something by Nostradamus.

[Jordan]

Exactly. That's some shit that doesn't exist in a fascist dystopia.

[Dan]

I hate to say it, but it's good, clean fun compared to what we have to live with now.

[Jordan]

I mean, yeah, it's not clean fun, but it's good fun.

[Dan]

Yeah. And Alex is sincerely annoyed. Yep. And they can't do anything about it, really, other than be mean to this.

[Jordan]

Call and what else is there to say? What? Somebody's like, I think Mohammed Atta brought the West Nile virus to New York.

[Dan]

And Nostradamus wrote about the West Nile virus that Muhammad Atta was going to spread in New York, but it was also part of enabling Giuliani to start a command center in the World Trade center to respond to the West Nile virus.

[Jordan]

What did Nostradamus think of Giuliani? I think that's the question that I am now faced with. Like, right, you're getting visions of the future. You're you. I can see the future and all that stuff. And then Giuliani pops up.

[Dan]

What do you think you will be in Borat to know we are America or whatever the fuck?

[Jordan]

I see the Four Seasons, but not a hotel.

[Dan]

Yeah. So Alex is like, hey, hey, dude, Nostradamus sucks.

[Alex Jones]

I mean, give me more details. Tell me about Nostradamus.

[Caller]

Oh, he was. He was just a prophet back in, I think, the 1500s. And he said that in July of 1999, King of Terror would come from the sky. And that's when Muhammad Atta, the piece of garbage, came over the 911 lead hijacker, and he brought with him the West Nile virus and he unleashed it. And that's what I believe. Nostradamus is talking about when he said the King of Terror would come from the sky.

[Alex Jones]

Okay, thank you for the call. I appreciate that. I'm not here to make friends, okay?

[Dan]

In a fucking reality show. What the hell is going on here? I'm not here to make friends.

[Jordan]

I'm here to make friends with people who think Nostradamus could see the future. Okay, wait. Nope. This is a radio show that is specifically about making friends with those people.

[Dan]

I am not here to play nice with you fools. That's just great. That is a great reaction. It's just. It's juicy, you know, you feel it.

[Jordan]

I mean, and it makes you wonder about that guy. You know, he brings such a burst of character energy.

[Dan]

Garbage.

[Jordan]

Absolutely. What are you talking about? You're not using emotion right when you say piece of garbage.

[Dan]

Well, and he's saying it repeatedly. Specifically about Muhammad Ada, which is almost like a character tick.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Which makes me think like, okay, this could be a prank call.

[Jordan]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

Like, this seems like something to give a character layer. Yep. Layers or something. But I also could believe it's real. I don't know why.

[Jordan]

I mean, yeah, it could be. That guy seems like an interesting guy.

[Dan]

Either way, he's annoying Alex, and that's great.

[Jordan]

I'll tell you what he is now. Probably a Nazi. Probably a Nazi.

[Dan]

I don't know. See, one of the things that I've learned from listening to these old episodes of Alex's show.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Is that someone like this, you hear that voice and you're thinking, I don't know, 30s? Sure. That guy's 80. There are so many people who have voices that you think like, oh, that's just someone in their. Their 30s or 40s, and they're like, I'm 77.

[Jordan]

All right?

[Dan]

So, like, I think. I think I'm. I'm clocking him at dead.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

In 2026. All right.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

20 years is a long time for an 80 year old to keep keep going.

[Dan]

And Nostradamus predicted he wouldn't make it to 100.

[Jordan]

That would be. That would be a really good prediction from Nostradamus.

[Dan]

So Alex is like, I'm not here to make friends. I'm not here to humor you assholes.

[Jordan]

He's here to win.

[Dan]

When you say stupid things about Nostradamus, I'm going to tell you, you're stupid.

[Alex Jones]

I'm not here to make friends. I'm not here to pat you on the head and act like I take what you have to say serious. This is Not a variety show. And I don't blame people who have variety shows. I'm going to fight for my life. I'm going to fight for my family's.

[Jordan]

What would you blame them for?

[Alex Jones]

I'm going to fight for my life. And I want you to know you're in a fight for your life. Your life, your liberty, your pursuit of happiness, your very existence. A psychopathic Nazi like eugenics pushing Malthusian social Darwinistic Wrecking Crew is in control. And they wear fancy three piece suits and have multi billion dollar PR companies spewing high tech propaganda. But they can be defeated and they will be defeated. Number one, I don't believe in Nostradamus and what he had to say. The guy was a quack. Number two, the very quatrain you just read is not a real quatrain. That was put out by what, News of the World or whatever. At the time I had to get 50 calls probably on air about it after 9, 11, along with that smoke devil supposedly in there. And people love this type of stuff. It's just, it's, you got the wrong show, brother.

[Dan]

Hey brother. You got the wrong show.

[Jordan]

The wrong show, brother.

[Dan]

Now I want to say one thing right off the bat, and that is that I think he landed on Wrecking Crew as a noun. And that was a masterwork that was so good that he was trying to figure out what he was going to call them and calling them a wrecking crew. Solid.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that was land in the plane.

[Dan]

So it's also fair that Alex doesn't like Nostradamus. I'm cool with that. People who use prophecies to run scams generally don't like other people who are in the same business. So that's cool. Yeah. But what's interesting here is that Alex is just making up that this is a fake quatrain. It's absolutely authentic and it's From Nostradamus Century 10 collection. Quatrain number 72. Alex's belief system relies on magic. So he can't really just dismiss Nostradamus as a weirdo who wrote stuff that people try to force into fitting world events after the fact so they can freak themselves out and pretend that they can know the future by doing the right kind of decoding. He believes the same shit. So if he were to just take the position that the idea of a literal prophet is dumb, then he risks attacking his own worldview. And he can't do that because he doesn't have other tools that he can use. Alex just tries to Invalidate the caller's question about Nostradamus on a technicality. It's a fake quatrain, man. Brother. It's a particularly interesting tactic for Alex to use and be wrong about because about 75% of the quotes that he cites in his documentaries and on his shows are fake. Almost everything he thinks Thomas Jefferson said is misattributed. And if he's such a stickler about authenticating something like a Nostradamus quatrain, you'd think he'd put a little bit of effort of the same type into Jefferson.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

But he doesn't.

[Jordan]

No, no, it's. It would be a strange thing for Alex to denigrate the entire concept of prophecy to begin with.

[Dan]

This guy's a kook. He's a kook. He's a wacko.

[Jordan]

But it sucks whenever you get a spiritual argument that devolves into technicalities. That blows. That's just the worst feeling in the world.

[Dan]

Well. But also, like, it raises an interesting question, and that is like, okay, what about the real quatrains, then? Do you think those are prophecies or what? Like, if this weren't fake, would you then be freaked out by it?

[Jordan]

That's a good question. If it weren't. Okay, what level of fakeness would freak you out? Would it be even more freaky if it was just attributed to somebody else who snuck it into Nostradamus's stuff? You know, like, it was written by a similar guy, just not Nostradamus.

[Dan]

Oh, you meant from, like, the 1500s.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Okay. Yeah. So not Shaq.

[Jordan]

Not technically Shaq. Unless we don't know something about Shaq.

[Dan]

He's a genie. No, that was just in that.

[Jordan]

No, that was just in that movie.

[Dan]

So Alex, he has a. He's got a bone to pick with psychics. Yeah. And does not.

[Jordan]

Don't we all.

[Dan]

He doesn't like the way that they get away with predictions.

[Jordan]

No, no, no. You know, like, it's just. It's cheap.

[Alex Jones]

That quatrain wasn't even a real quatrain of Nostradamus. He wrote thousands and thousands of pages of Nebula stuff. And the king on the horse in the day of the 12 was pierced in the. In the head with a spear and died. I mean, kings were dying all the time. Jousting and in battles. And so 200 years later, somebody dies. Oh, my gosh. The king got killed with a spear in his face. Man, that never happens. I'd be like. I mean, I love these psychics. Oh, there's going to be a car wreck, a bus wreck in the next week. I feel it. It's going to happen somewhere and then no one pays attention if it doesn't happen. But if it does, see, I, I predicted it just, just right.

[Dan]

You can hear in this clip Alex describing what his business model develops into.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He makes hundreds of predictions, many of them contradicting each other, and then makes a big deal out of it when something he says appears to have come true while never owning up to all the times he's wrong. In fact, he's developed a defense mechanism about this that the psychics he's complaining about don't even get to enjoy. Where he'll pretend that some of his past predictions ended up being wrong because he predicted an event and that scared the globalists into not carrying it out. When Alex describes this dynamic and complains about psychics like this, it should make clear that he knows what he's doing. He's able to articulate how what they do is a scam. So it's impossible to pretend that he doesn't get it. Yeah, he knows how. He's fucking with people.

[Jordan]

Yeah. No, there is, there is definitely an element of like, I guess celebrity death match should, should happen. Where we've got present day Alex versus 2006 Alex. You know, in a clay fight where both of them are essentially, they're yelling the same things at each other.

[Dan]

I think 2006 Alex would win in a, in a walk. Like, it would be so easy. It does younger.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

He argues debatably fitter.

[Jordan]

I'm not sure he was drinking pretty heavily.

[Dan]

But I also think that he could get the crowd on his side. Like I think 2006 Alex could pretend to be sympathetic and get the. He could get some face energy.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Whereas present day Alex would have to heal it. You know, you'd have to be the full on.

[Jordan]

There would be very few fans in attendance for present day Alex.

[Dan]

So Alex is. He has these criticisms of psychics. You know, they never get held responsible for failed predictions.

[Jordan]

I appreciate that.

[Dan]

And he can say this because he's not a psychic. You know, granted, he predicted 9, 11.

[Jordan]

And he is a psychic. Well, he said he, he said he's a psychic.

[Dan]

Not back.

[Jordan]

He said a bunch of times he's a psychic.

[Dan]

Not back then.

[Jordan]

Oh, okay.

[Dan]

Well, maybe back then, but not today.

[Alex Jones]

No, I'm not psychic. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't read tea leaves. I don't gut a pig and read. I don't practice Santeria to Come up with this stuff. I got on air July 25th on TV and I got on the radio July 25th. I did it for months straight. Operation Expose the Government Terrorists. And I said, call the White House, Bin Laden's their agent. There's soon going to be a big attack probably on the World Trade Center. It's going to be huge. They're going to bring a police state in after it. How did I know that? From deep study, from deep research, from deep meditation. And I don't mean meditating in some mumbo jumbo way. I mean true, the highest form of intelligence art, which I have organically and it's indigenous to my brain.

[Dan]

Yeah, me too.

[Alex Jones]

A lot of problems. It's like my wife will be doing some calculations on a calculator and I just spit out the number with these huge numbers she's got and I can't control it and I can't say how I do it. And if I try to consciously do it, I can't do it. She's like, how did you know that? How do you do that? Like I could spell some big giant complex word, but if I try without thinking, but if I try to spell it, I can't even write at a fifth grade level.

[Dan]

So we know that Alex now says that God told him in repeated prophetic dreams about 9 11, and that was how he predicted it. But I guess he's still lying about research and deep study at this point in 2006. One of the things that I think is pretty fascinating is that Alex is describing his magical abilities in a specific way that's similar to how he plays the game. Now he can do nearly impossible mental math if he's not trying. But if he's asked to do the math, he can't. He can spell any word if he's just on autopilot, but if he's asked to spell anything, he's basically illiterate. This is how he describes his prophecy powers now where if God sends him some jolt, he can do magic. But if you confront him and demand that he tell you what's gonna happen in the future, it's probably not gonna work. You can't do it on command. Yeah, this is a very old con man trick and has worked pretty well historically because it has a built in excuse for why the trick didn't work. The con man isn't really in control of their own magical gifts and any attempt that they might make to prove their powers would require them to exert that control that they don't have. Yeah, the Other place you see this kind of thing is in adolescence. Everybody wants to be special. And a good way to be special is to have some kind of special power. The problem is that you don't have one. But that doesn't stop some creative kids from trying to convince people that they do. So you come up with something like Kel from Keenan and Kel, his power in Mystery Men, where he can turn invisible, but only when no one's looking. Yeah, kids tell each other shit like this all the time, and I don't want to deprive them of their fun. But if an adult is telling you something like this, you should know that you're either being scammed or you're in a mid tier Ben Stiller movie. It Alex's whole like, I can do all this shit, but I can't. You can't. I'm not. I can't prove it. Yeah, like, it's fucking kid shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it feels. It feels very early 1900s. It feels like that turn of the century spiritual revivalist, like, I mean, you know, you go back and you look at some of the stuff where people have just got wet rags and like, ah, this is from ghosts. And everybody bought it. So you're like, how. How gullible can you be?

[Dan]

I can talk to ghosts, but only when no one else and you can't hear them and they'll never talk to you. And yeah, yeah, it's all relatives of the same thing. It's all the breakoffs of. It's all the same jazz.

[Jordan]

Be surprised at my magic, but don't ask for it. Don't ask for more.

[Dan]

And honestly, asking for it is kind of an insult to the magical abilities.

[Jordan]

It is, you know, I mean, the magic is bigger than both of us, really, if you think about it.

[Dan]

You're trying to turn this into achievement.

[Jordan]

Would you, like, tell God what to do? I don't tell God what to do. So it feels like maybe you're the asshole here.

[Dan]

Yeah, right.

[Jordan]

You're going to need to give me $100.

[Dan]

It only makes sense. It only makes sense in 1900.

[Jordan]

That's $1,000.

[Dan]

So Alex discusses what sealed the deal for him on predicting 9 11.

[Jordan]

All right?

[Dan]

And it turns out he was watching Hardball.

[Alex Jones]

And I'm not trying to sit here and get off into, you know, how my brain works, but I understand the system. I can look at, at big, complex systems and I can integrate what's going on if I have enough data. And really, it's not that hard, frankly. I saw Warren Rudman and Gary Hart was the final straw and I jumped. I was back when I watched tv. I should watch TV because you can glean more from that than just reading the text. I just can't stand it. So I've selfishly don't really watch a lot of TV because I just can't selfishly I like to have a life and I feel so good and so free without it. But I saw them on Hardball. They were going big changes in America. They were smiling, they were real proud to be able to make this announcement. They've been told they could do this and they were kind of rising up out of their chairs and and Chris Matthews going, something big huh? Yeah, they're smiling. Yeah, Big changes, big buildings. Yeah. Gonna come down. Boom, boom. Bin Laden and I already. And I'd seen him introduce Bin Laden on the news. He's gonna get you soon. He's coming. I had seen how the government had bombed the World Trade center before.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that one helped.

[Alex Jones]

See you start to see it's not really that hard to do. What's hard to do is to just make very few predictions and have all those come correct, which mine have. Instead of just making a thousand predictions and a few come true, let's revisit.

[Dan]

That 20 years later. So it's complete bullshit that Alex saw Gary Hart on Hardball and that's what finally made all the pieces come together about his 911 prediction. Clinton had enlisted Gary Hart to co chair a committee on national security in 1998 and their findings included dire warnings about how it was likely that a terrorist attack would be committed on US soil within the next 25 years. Sure. He did interviews about it and gave speeches in 2001 because their report had been completed. So I think it's pretty likely that he was on Hardball at some point around when Alex is saying. And it's entirely possible that Alex saw it. Sure. The problem with Gary Hart was that people didn't really respect him. He was supposed to be the bit next big Democratic hopeful in 1984 who could make a run at Reagan. Hart narrowly lost the Democratic primary to Walter Mondale who went on to get beat about as bad as possible, only winning his home state of Minnesota and Washington D.C. crazy electoral map. Uh, bad news, real bad. Different days after that disaster. It made sense that Hart would get his shot in 1988 and all signs were looking like this was gonna be the case. Because if you look at the 1984 Democratic primary too, it's like he made crazy momentum on Mondale Yeah. And then it just wasn't enough to get him over the line. So, like, he had. He. He was a rising piece of business.

[Jordan]

Real Bernie Sanders style.

[Dan]

Yeah. But then someone released a picture of him being very cozy with a woman who wasn't his wife on a boat called Monkey Business.

[Jordan]

Oh, that's right. I remember one that thought that whole thing was made up and fake.

[Dan]

Well, motherfucker half made up, probably.

[Jordan]

Either way, this man would have been elected if he had done this in 2022.

[Dan]

Definitely. Yeah. But unfortunately, it was 1988, and Lee Atwater may or may not have decided to really run a nice PR campaign on this one. Yeah. So Gary Hart was the golden boy of the Democratic Party, and his first real run ended with Mondale getting the shit kicked out of him in historic fashion. And then the second run led to him looking very weak in the midst of a sex scandal, with him choosing to drop out of the race instead of trying to weather the storm that led to Michael Dukakis getting the Democratic nomination. And granted, he did better than Mondale, but he lost to George H.W. bush 426 to 111 in the Electoral College.

[Jordan]

Yeah, and that was H.W.

[Dan]

Mm.

[Jordan]

That was a man with so little charisma. He ran the CIA.

[Dan]

He was beatable.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah. And like Gary Hart probably could have been. Probably. He would have done better than Dukakis.

[Jordan]

Yeah, well, God damn, anybody would have done better than Dukakis.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Poor guy.

[Dan]

Nowadays, that picture of him with Donna Rice would have probably, like, boosted his numbers.

[Jordan]

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Weird, weird times.

[Dan]

Yeah. He was a bad messenger for people to hear a warning about imminent terrorist attacks from. To viewers, he was either someone they didn't know or someone they did know and kind of didn't like. To Republicans, he was a joke. And to Democrats, he was the guy who probably would have beat Bush but couldn't resist fucking on this boat or at least putting himself in a position where Roger Stone's buddy could, you know, run that PR campaign. Regardless, we know that Alex got his 911 prediction from psychic dreams that God sent him. So this whole act of trying to provide a rational explanation for his prophecy, to differentiate it from Nostradamus work, is kind of stupid and looks dumb.

[Jordan]

And for it to include Gary Hart in his alec. Okay, like, regardless of whether or not a person watching Gary Hart on this Hardball episode that may or may not have happened may be convinced of something terrible, Alex should not have been convinced of shit by watching Gary Hart on Harpal. Right.

[Dan]

You Know when I realized 911 was going to happen? When I was watching Bret Hart. The excellence in execution.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

The best there is. The best there wasn't. The best there ever will be.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Fight. Stone cold Steve Austin now. WrestleMania.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I knew 911 was coming.

[Jordan]

Did you know when I knew 911 was coming?

[Dan]

When Owen Hart.

[Jordan]

No, no, no, no, no. When Corey Hart fought those vampires.

[Dan]

Oh. I thought Corey Hart was the baseball player. Wasn't he on the Brewers? Who am I thinking of?

[Jordan]

Who are you thinking of? I think. I'm thinking Corey Hart was a musician. I think of two. No. Yeah. I'm thinking of the wrong Corey.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

God damn it.

[Dan]

Corey Haim.

[Jordan]

I was thinking of.

[Dan]

Corey Feldman. The Corey.

[Jordan]

I was thinking of one of the Coreys. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan]

Fool. Anyway, Jim the Anvil Neihardt. Yep. Not named Hart.

[Jordan]

No.

[Dan]

Was a member of the Heart Foundation.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

All right, we're back on track.

[Jordan]

There we go.

[Dan]

So Nostradamus was fake. All this shit was fake. His quatrain was fake.

[Jordan]

That is a big pronouncement from you, Dan. No, you better have something to back that up. I'm not saying Nostradamus was all shit.

[Dan]

I'm not saying it. Alex is.

[Alex Jones]

Okay, so that quatrain wasn't real. Now I forget. The exact verse in. In what got ignored by the counterfeit of Gnostic was in the final book of the Bible, Revelation, it said, to paraphrase, in the great port city of the new Babylon, the great towers will fall. They'll be covered with dust, and sea captains will say, babylon is burning, that great center of commerce. And it will have been the place of the trade, the towers of the. I mean, it's an incredible quote. That was real. No one wanted to talk about that. If you want to talk about prophecy, no one wanted to talk. It was just some fake quatrain. That's the thing people do for Nostradamus is they write fake quatrains, put it on a message board, and it's top news everywhere, Even on cnn. Taking it serious.

[Dan]

As I mentioned earlier, the Nostradamus quote is real, but Alex is wildly off in his paraphrasing of Revelation.

[Jordan]

So. So just to be clear on something, Alex is telling somebody that a real quote is fake and then is about to give a fake quote about something real.

[Dan]

I mean, quotes generous. A fake paraphrasing, whatever.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Just to be clear.

[Dan]

And from the Bible, no less.

[Jordan]

From the Bible, the thing that he cares about. But Nostradamus, again, he does not care about.

[Dan]

Yeah. So the party is talking about begins in Revelation 17 with the talk of the destruction of Babylon. But the specific thing he's referencing is from Revelation 18, beginning with verse 11 through 13. The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her being Babylon because no one buys their cargoes anymore. Cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen, purple silk and scarlet cloth, every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble. Cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and carriages and human beings sold as slaves. Babylon was an economic hub on the Euphrates River. So all that stuff about merchants and ship captains is completely understandable without having to make this New York City. Yeah, that's nonsense.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Verses 18 through 19 get a little weird, though. When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, was there ever a city like this great city? They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out that line. They will throw dust on their heads. Seems really strange, especially considering how many images we had after 911 of people covered in dust.

[Jordan]

True.

[Dan]

So if you do a surface level misreading of this verse, you can see how that might seem applicable, which seems to be what Alex is doing, I guess. However, if you read more of the Bible, you would know that the act of throwing dust on one's head is something that's frequently done to express despair. Job's friends do it to show empathy with his plight. Joshua does it after receiving news of a military defeat. And the Book of Lamentations contains this verse about the response to the destruction of Jerusalem. The elders of Daughter Zion sit on the ground in silence. They've sprinkled dust on their heads and put on sackcloth. The young women of Jerusalem have bowed their heads to the ground. Alex doesn't really care about the Bible or Christianity, so he doesn't have a broad spectrum grasp on what any of it means. He only has an interest in what the Bible says to the extent that he can use it to make his job easier or sound more interesting. So a reference to an ancient custom of expressing despair is entirely lost on him. He just sees the word dust and decides that it must be about 9 11. Yeah, it's just fucking garbage. He's an embarrassing dope.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I mean, that's. That sucks though, cuz. And it happens like this so often where it's like there is an incredibly interesting question here. And it's none of the things that Alex is talking about. It is, when did people start putting dust on their heads? Whose idea was it? Who is the first guy who's like, I'm so fucking sad, and just sprinkled a little dust on his head? And then everybody around was like, holy shit. We totally get this signal. This signal makes perfect sense.

[Dan]

I think if you saw someone pouring or throwing dust on their heads, you wouldn't assume, like, they're having a great time.

[Jordan]

No, of course not. You'd be like, man, that guy should go in Lamentations.

[Dan]

Yeah, that guy's having. He's having a rough one.

[Jordan]

He's having a rough one. Look at him sprinkle dust on his head.

[Dan]

Yeah. I mean, I think that without, like, some cultural context, future societies might look back on people splashing water on their face.

[Jordan]

Totally.

[Dan]

As kind of as confusing.

[Jordan]

No, Whenever. Every time you see a horror movie where somebody's like, ah, I just got a splash of water on my face, man. Who was the first guy to splash water on his face whenever in a horrible situation?

[Dan]

Right. These signifiers are culturally dependent. And, I mean, who knows?

[Jordan]

We just accept these things as having evolved naturally, anthropologically, as opposed to. We need to be building time machines to ask these very specific and pointless questions.

[Dan]

I honestly imagine if I'd spent about half an hour to 40 minutes more looking into this, I would have an answer for you.

[Jordan]

But not good enough. I need a time machine. I can't trust your answers with wor.

[Dan]

I think someone could very easily. We don't need a time machine for this one. This one, I think probably has been studied, but. But yeah, I mean, Alex is just like. He's pulling at these straws of the revelation, like the Dust Trade Towers, like, what the fuck are you talking about? This is nonsense.

[Jordan]

My feeling on prophecy is you can't. It's all or nothing with prophecy, right? Like, you can't have my prophecies better than your prophecy guy. Because once you admit that somebody's getting prophecies and God do weird shit at all point in time, even if even turning something that wasn't his into his, if you like, then any prophecy could be true. Yeah, right.

[Dan]

Well, yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Well, it's. It's. It's. It's hard to fight prophecy when you're trying to defend the. The sort of structure of prophecy. Yeah, you can't. You kind of have to be like, yeah, they got it wrong. He was listening to the wrong guy. Exactly. Prophecy. But it was from Beelzebub.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Or something.

[Jordan]

But you don't know that.

[Dan]

That.

[Jordan]

And even if it was from Beelzebub, all prophecies are given through God in some form or fashion, because all it comes from God in some form or fashion. So all prophecies must or must not be true.

[Dan]

Okay. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Yeah. I think they're not true. So the 911 hijackers.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Right. What do you think about them?

[Jordan]

Real pieces of garbage?

[Dan]

Oh, we heard that earlier.

[Jordan]

Real pieces of garbage.

[Dan]

Camera in the color informed us about that.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah. Overall, I think.

[Dan]

Let me narrow my question.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's a big question.

[Dan]

Do you think they did it?

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah, I do.

[Dan]

You think they fly. Flew the planes and, like, did the.

[Jordan]

I'm pretty sure based upon all the evidence I had available to me when this happened and now that those guys were flying those fucking planes at various.

[Dan]

Points in Alex's career, he would agree with you.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

However, in 2006, he does not. Ooh.

[Alex Jones]

Mohammed didn't do anything. Muhammad at it was a US government agent who thought he was taking part in drills. He was nerve gassed on board those aircraft. They were falling in the buildings. You can get 10 other versions of what happened. My version is correct. My version goes off the facts. My version goes off all the evidence. My version goes off the crime scene and the admissions and past operations. You see, we do multifaceted analysis here. Okay. And I know we had loaded phones. I just spent 10 minutes on that. Because that caller just. Sir. Get into real issues instead of just that idiot Nostradamus. The prophet Nostradamus. I mean, the guy was a charlatan. He was a carnival barker. He was a joke.

[Dan]

It's the wrong show, brother.

[Jordan]

I don't know, Like. Okay, so cognitive dissonance, very difficult to opposing ideas. Same brain, tough to do. I don't know how to deal with a guy fresh off of saying Mohamed Atta was nerve gassed in one of those planes. And that was remote control flight into the thing. And you're so stupid for believing what some random asshole from the past said.

[Dan]

Yeah. And I think there's a. There's a rich comedy too. And like, my version is based on fact research. My version will change in six months.

[Jordan]

That's what people who believe in prophecy say.

[Dan]

Yeah. And no one will hold me responsible for changing the version of the things I say. Nope. Yeah, he's. He's a real. But this is like. I don't know. I feel like I'VE said this in times we've done past episodes before, is like, this is radio. Yeah, like, this is radio.

[Jordan]

No, this is what it. I mean, oddly enough, this feels normal, right? This is like kind of what it's supposed to be. Crazy people making people on the radio mad.

[Dan]

Yeah. Alex has a position that is weird and wrong, and he attracts people who are weirder and wronger, and they call and annoy him.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And then there's attention in that. I think that's kind of delicious.

[Jordan]

Yeah, no, it's great. It's sports talk radio. That's what it should be. You know, that's the problem with stuff like this is that then it's like. And also, we should vote for somebody. And it's like, ah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Be mad at the coach. You know, just don't. Don't give me this.

[Dan]

So Alex goes to break, and he comes back and he takes another caller. And this person has an interesting take to try and sort of reassure Alex and bring him back to earth.

[Alex Jones]

Okay, let's talk to Robert. Robert, where are you calling me from?

[Caller]

Hi, good morning, Alex. I'm Robert in San Diego.

[Alex Jones]

Welcome.

[Caller]

Many times an RTP student in college. Hey, you know that first caller just was doing his job as an agent, you know, to try to distract you. You know, giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Misdirection propaganda, you know, taking away the true focus. He really did it.

[Alex Jones]

He did sound sarcastic.

[Caller]

Oh, it was totally a plant. I could hear it right from the word go.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah, man. That caller was totally a plant. That was a globalist trying to fuck with you.

[Jordan]

I could not be happier with that call.

[Dan]

You're cool, man. You're cool. That's the globalist, man. Someone's paying him to fuck with you.

[Jordan]

Here's what I feel like just happened, right? I'm at a bar, and then the guy who was next to me was dominating a conversation that I did not want to have. And he got up and he went to the bathroom, and I was like, oh, phew. Finally. And then this guy walks up and he just goes, that guy's a plant. I didn't ask for this, man. What are you doing here?

[Dan]

I think I see the feeling that I had more is you're sitting at a bar, someone next to you. There's a guy, and he's aggressively hitting on a lady who is not interested.

[Jordan]

Not interested, right.

[Dan]

He's like, you know, like, come on, come on. She's not interested.

[Jordan]

Muhammad Atta is a piece of garbage.

[Dan]

She walks Away.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

His buddy comes up and is patting him on the shoulder and like, you're a good looking boy. You're a good looking guy.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

This is reassurance. This is like reinforcing the like there's definitely that. The Alex ego.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I can see that. I also feel there's a lot of this guy in there too. I feel like he's talking to me out of the side of his mouth, you know, like, you know, that kind of thing.

[Dan]

Sure.

[Jordan]

As we have.

[Dan]

I would. Yeah, I'd love a bar that was just full of like. This is all of Alex's callers from one day.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

We're just gonna mingle.

[Jordan]

We're gonna call it the Alex's callers bar. Oh, everybody who calls in has to go to the bar afterwards. Yeah, I think that's a great plan.

[Dan]

God, if only.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

See this is what we need a time machine for.

[Jordan]

We need to go back and have.

[Dan]

A drink with these weirdos.

[Jordan]

Terrible reasons to use a time machine that have nothing with changing anything for the better.

[Dan]

Well, I feel like going back and having a drink with some of these weirdos. Probably wouldn't leave too many ripples. Sure wouldn't cause time paradoxes or it.

[Jordan]

Would wind up making the world a lot better place.

[Dan]

It could only help.

[Jordan]

Yeah, probably.

[Dan]

So we got commercial here. Oh, it's one of the delights of the past. 06 Sometimes we got commercials and here's one.

[Alex Jones]

Hello folks, Alex Jones here. Introducing Prudent places usa an interactive CD book that is your premier resource for hard to find information. Find out about everything from job migration to evacuation information such as major bridges in disrepair and FEMA evacuation time studies for coastal cities. Zero in on man made disaster zones, environmental areas of concern and natural disaster zones. Find out everything from where to get water in an emergency, the geographic income levels, housing prices, complete with over 3 gigabytes of detailed information on the 3000 plus counties in the U. S. Full color photographs, 550 high resolution full color maps and detailed information and analysis that you need. Order Prudent Places USA now for only 29 plus shipping by calling new millennium.

[Dan]

It's fun to listen to an ad read like this and remember that Alex pretended that he was one of the most sought after voiceover guys before Obama came along and made everyone hate Alex for being white. This is hacky ad reading even for 2006. And it works fine for like local businesses or someone with a tiny budget, but this would be considered pretty bad by professionals. Yep, this is a nice little Commercial for a CD ROM filled with advice about where to bug out when shit goes down. That seems like a normal enough thing for Alex to be selling. So at first glance this doesn't seem all that weird. But you might notice at the end there, he tells people to call New Millennium to buy this CD rom. Which also wouldn't sound that weird unless you've listened to a lot of infowars. New Millennium Concepts is the name of the company that makes Big Berkey water filters, which is one of Alex's primary sponsors at this time. That's a curious detail, and it raises some questions about why a company that produces water filters is also spending ad money to promote a CD Romabub bugout locations. It seems outside of what their company was made to do. Unless you understand the bigger picture. Yeah, New Millennium Concepts doesn't sell water filters because they're passionate about cleaner water or because everyone needs their filters. They sell water filters because it's a product that's easy to sell using fear. And Alex's show is a fear based marketing setup. Maybe it's not a terrible idea to use a water filter, but there's a difference between trying to sell someone one by explaining the upsides of it and selling them one by yelling about how the water is poisoned and is gonna turn you gay. Alex's content is a feeding mechanism that creates the fear that the products he sells are meant to alleviate. It's a predatory cycle where his show makes you scared that if you don't buy the water filters you'll die. But thankfully he has a filter company that he can vouch for. Buy Alex's friend's filters so you can alleviate the anxiety that his content has created. This CD ROM operates the same way. Alex is full of yelling at the audience that it's the end of the world and everything's gonna blow up at any moment, which creates a heightened level of fear. The audience is scared about where they can go to be safe during the societal collapse. And thankfully he has a friend who can sell them a CD ROM full of information all about it. And it's the same people who sell you the water filters.

[Jordan]

Really convenient.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's a little bit shady. And by that I mean a lot shady.

[Jordan]

Which do you think is worse? Do you think it's worse if the people running the company are making this CD rom and essentially it's going like. And you know what else you could really use? An air filter if you bug out here, or a water filter if you bug out here. Or you know all that stuff. Or if the people that made the company are like, our water filters are great. But also, we're terrified that we're going to need to bug out at any single moment. You know, like, is it better if the fear from them is real or if they're cynically taking advantage of it?

[Dan]

Which is better?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I think the effect is the same either way, because none of that can be communicated to the audience that just hears Alex's terrible ad read. That is true, but I think from a human perspective, it's probably better if they actually believe it.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Because then at least they're not, like, intentionally and maliciously ripping people off. They are just, like, thinking that it's of service.

[Jordan]

Right. They're just regular weirdos.

[Dan]

Yeah. But, like, I don't believe that.

[Jordan]

No, it would be hard to. It would be hard not to wisen up, especially if you were like, maybe you were afraid, but then shortly after, you started making a lot more money, you were less afraid and more willing to cynically exploit people. Imagine.

[Dan]

So we get to the second hour of the show, and Alex has some guests. One of them is a fellow named Robert, who's a filmmaker, and he has a new film out that Alex is helping promote. And he really has been laying a lot of groundwork, both in the episode the day before this and the beginning of this episode, about how, like, this guy's the shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He's won Emmys. He's so big.

[Jordan]

He's real. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

And so Alex does his little intro.

[Alex Jones]

My guests are here in studio with me. And of course, one of them is Robert Mancero. He's a producer, director, writer for over 10 years in the television film industry. After spending three years at Disney Studios, he formed his own production company, Full Vision Productions. And Robert has been honored with. Well, you know, instead of reading this long bio, Robert, tell us about yourself.

[Robert Mancero]

I come from a commercial music video background, done a lot of extreme sports, and now into the documentary filmmaking avenue.

[Alex Jones]

So when you first got into tv.

[Robert Mancero]

What did you do? When I first got into tv, I was a. Basically a temp. I walked down the Disney lot. I had no job whatsoever. I walked into a building, and they go, are you the temp? And of course I said yes. And I worked there, worked my way up, became a junior production executive, worked under Katzenberg, was in charge of quite a few films in development, and just got tired of the whole corporate scene because I wanted to go out and make films. So left.

[Dan]

Absolutely not.

[Jordan]

No, no. None of that was true.

[Dan]

Can't be.

[Jordan]

Was some of it true about him being an intern? Maybe for a while.

[Dan]

I feel like this is something from like how to succeed in business without really trying or whatever that. Do you mean?

[Jordan]

Michael J. Fox is starring in this movie about working your way up to the top very quickly with no difficulty.

[Dan]

I was a temp. And by that I mean I wasn't a temp. I just walked onto the lot and pretended to be a temp. And then I'm working for Katzenberg. I'm in charge of a bunch of. Yeah, that. That's like a person who imagines they like. Okay. So I. I'm an extra on some things. And then I just was so good at that. I'm now starring as. I was almost Star Lord. I was almost in Guardians.

[Jordan]

Very close. I do like the. I do like the. I was put in charge of several movies. Yeah. I was put in charge of several mo. Why? Why? And for what in which movies were they?

[Dan]

Yeah. Impossible number one. This is. Those are positions that are people who are. Have careers.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

There's not. Hey, we moved the temp up. And he's.

[Jordan]

I understand people think that the entertainment industry is very chaotic and it's more chaotic than a lot of other industries, but it's not that chaotic.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And I do. I do like the. I was under Katzenberg, though, because I guess everyone is.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

You know, like, how many steps removed.

[Jordan]

What a great. What a great name drop for him.

[Dan]

I believe he could have been a temp, though. So Alex has been trying to play this guy up like he's the most legitimate Emmy nominated director around. And the reason is because he just put out a documentary called Prescription Suicide, which is about the evils of prescription drugs.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Right off the bat, I want to make it clear that I tried to watch this documentary to prep for the episode, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I found a physical copy for sale on ebay, but it would take too long to get here, so I didn't buy it. But I did want to actually watch the film before I judged it too hard.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Dan]

There's a lot of really good critiques people can make about the prescription drug industry. And if this guy was saying something that was reasonable, then I don't want to just have a knee jerk reaction to hate him because he's on Alex's show.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

In 2006. And entirely sane people could find themselves on Infowars. So. So I want to be careful not to jump to conclusions.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

That said, it's important For Alex to present him as a very important filmmaker. Because the bigger story here is that Robert's film wasn't accepted to play at south by Southwest. And if he's a big deal in the industry, then that would seem to indicate that the subject he's covering is too hot. Too hot and he's being censored.

[Jordan]

Gotcha.

[Dan]

On the flip side, if he's just a guy who showed up as a temp at Disney and is pretending that he was in charge of getting movies made, that it starts to make a lot more sense why south by Southwest might have rejected his film. Maybe it wasn't good. Again, I would prefer to have watched it so I could just say that it's not good. But based on Robert's self told origin story, my instincts are to say it's probably bad.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Another bad sign is that previous to this, the only credit he has as a Director is a 2002 comedy short film about Viagra called Code Blue. He doesn't have another credit until a 2016 film called Veteran Charity Ride to Sturgis. So I don't.

[Jordan]

That sounds fun though.

[Dan]

Totally. But it's not a big career.

[Jordan]

No.

[Dan]

From what I understand and was able to glean, I think he's had a totally fine career. But it's mostly been like PSAs.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

And directing things for like local fire departments and like it's.

[Jordan]

That's great.

[Dan]

Yeah. It's work and it's creative and it, you know, I'm not. I'm not shitting on that. But it's not like making big budget.

[Jordan]

Yeah. We can't all become Michel Gondry and turn music videos into eternal sunshine in the smiles. Mine.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You know.

[Dan]

Yeah. Sometimes just make some music videos and there's no shame. No shame in that. But I don't think based on everything I can tell that this documentary was good.

[Jordan]

Yeah. There are. I'm not saying that the gatekeepers are always correct, but generally talent will find a way to do more than charity rides to Sturgis.

[Dan]

He. He was talking about the rejection letter that he got from south by Southwest.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And one of the things that he says was that they thought it was artless.

[Jordan]

And Jesus fucking hell. South by.

[Dan]

He interpreted that as the subject matter is too heavy for these people.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Which I think he could have taken the note a little differently.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, artless isn't really a great note though. I mean, what is it? What it. So it's artless. What does that mean?

[Dan]

Bad.

[Jordan]

Should I. Should I like, cut more Was the storyboarding bad?

[Dan]

It. It's an umbrella thing.

[Jordan]

That's what I'm saying.

[Dan]

You got no craft here, buddy.

[Jordan]

What does that even mean? I don't have any craft? Maybe I should just not make documentaries. Is that what you're trying to say?

[Dan]

Yep.

[Jordan]

Oh, shit. God damn, that does sound right.

[Dan]

Are you the template? We need someone to get coffee for the people.

[Jordan]

O, fine, I'll get it. Sorry for giving you my film.

[Dan]

So he talks a little bit about. About this film with Alex.

[Alex Jones]

Now you're making independent films. Tell us about this new documentary you've made, Prescription Suicide.

[Robert Mancero]

Prescription Suicide is a look into the families affected by antidepressant drugs. And basically what it is, it's six stories of six kids told by the families. It's. It's through their eyes, through their experiences. And there's no experts, there's no doctors telling you facts. It's just the families telling you what happened in their lives.

[Jordan]

Oh, that does sound artless.

[Alex Jones]

So you're personalizing it?

[Robert Mancero]

Absolutely. It's a very personal approach.

[Dan]

That's great. And I think that personalizing mental illness stories can be often pretty helpful. But I think that there's huge problems with Robert's approach. The first is that he's doing a documentary that's wildly critical of prescription drugs, and he has no interest in hearing from the pro medication interview subjects. Like someone who could give voice to the other side. Yeah, not interested. Just leave it alone.

[Jordan]

Let him out.

[Dan]

This means that he's not setting out to do a piece that actually gets into medication and whether or not it's helpful. Instead, it's just meant to be a slice of life kind of thing, looking at people who have had tragedies in their family that revolve around mental health. The second problem is that he can't interview the people who died from suicide. He can only hear their perspective through the lens of the family members who are alive. I'm not saying that the family members don't have a valid story to tell or that their experience isn't important, but I'm saying that they don't know everything. It's a harsh reality that for a lot of people struggling with mental health issues, their family members can often be a part of why they're struggling. Parental abuse or neglect can often be a big factor. And even when that isn't the case, family members are often in complete denial about what someone is going through. These interviews can provide a humanizing glimpse into what the family members thought was going on with their loved one. But it can't capture what they actually were going through. Externally, it might have appeared to a mother that their child was getting worse after being on a prescription. But the documentary isn't about that. It's about blaming medications for people committing suicide. His documentary is flawed in concept, and from an execution standpoint, it sounds artless.

[Jordan]

It does sound very artless. Yeah, that's no good. That's no good.

[Dan]

He later clarifies that there are six families, three with people who have died of suicide and three who attempted suicide. And again, I have not watched. I was not able to watch this. So I don't know, but one of the people that he is discussing, he. He does name this person. And I was able to look up their story. They ended up suing Paxil. The company that makes Paxil.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And in the course of the lawsuit, like, if you, if you read the, the description of what happened, this person was on like a bunch of drugs.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

They were on like PCP and had amphetamines in their system. Like, it was not just a situation where they were doing Paxil. Yeah. So, like, there's a lot of, I would say, confounding variables with some of the cases that they're talking about. And I don't think they, based on their interview, I don't think they handle it well. I can't imagine they do.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, the problem with anecdotal stories for mental illness especially is sooner or later you're gonna be in there with the doctor and the doctor's gonna give you an anecdote and it's like, how do you, how do you deal with that? Because the reality is most of the time they work, but nothing works all the time. And when you're dealing with the brain, that shit's crazy. So anything might get. Get rewired somewhere. And every time, the doctor is not trying to rewire you in the wrong place, but who fucking knows? So there's always going to be the most tragic story of a person who is fucking doomed and then the horrible things that happen because people exploit it or don't do it correctly in response, you know?

[Dan]

Right. And the stories, I mean, it's kind of tragic, but the stories of people who respond well to medication and go back to their lives and maybe have their lives saved by clinical and therapy approach to like mental health, health crises. That's kind of not interesting to people in a documentary. No, it's kind of a boring story that I got my life back together.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Like, the interesting part of the story is probably before you got help.

[Jordan]

It's way before. Yeah. Generally that's why it's very interesting.

[Dan]

So these human interest stories and these, these, these human humanizing things, I think they're valuable.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And they're. It's not wrong to do this, but, but to use that in a way as a cudgel against this branch of, of mental health, I think is wrong.

[Jordan]

I think you've, you've correctly identified one of the main problems, which is that at the end of the day, pulling back. The goal of any mental health intervention is to make your life more boring. Yeah, that is the goal. The goal is for you to have fewer interesting stories to tell.

[Dan]

Well, yeah, in a way.

[Jordan]

That's exactly in a way. But I think it's preferable because there are so many interesting stories that are interesting to you that are not interesting to other people. Like, it's very interesting to me whenever I go and just have dinner with my wife. Yeah, that is not a big story.

[Dan]

You know, so they have. There's another guest there.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And it's a lady who wrote a book and so Alex introduces her.

[Alex Jones]

We also have somebody here with us riding shotgun today, and that's Gwen Olson, Confessions of an Artist, Drug Pusher and God's Call to Loving Arms. And she's been on the inside and then had already gotten disillusioned, gotten out of the system. And then even after she'd already gotten out of the system, then her niece died a just horrific death like so many others that have taken this drug. And then we learned that even in the testing of the drugs it came out that they knew it radically increased suicidal tendencies. The opposite. So we'll tell that story and talk about our book.

[Dan]

So Gwen Olson wrote a book called Confessions of a Prescription Drug, God's Call to Loving Arms. Oh boy. Which is something of a mind fuck in title form. Her claim to fame was that she was a pharmaceutical rep who got disillusioned with the fact that her job was to try to convince doctors to prescribe drugs more. She came to view her job as being a drug pusher. And that's all good. And well, where things get confusing is the part where God is in the subtitle.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's a problem.

[Dan]

It makes total sense that someone would be a pharmaceutical rep and get disgusted with the whole industry of over prescribing drugs and come out with a tell all book that makes, that makes sense. It's a valid angle to attack big Pharma from. And it represents an actual problem that we could work on solving. The God part is a departure though, and it raises alarms. So I read through most of Gwen's book and it's basically a memoir that's been co opted into an anti medication tome. I think that she's a willing participant in that co option, but the core of what that book is about could have gone a different direction. Essentially, she's a person with a very tumultuous family history, full of abuse and chaos. People in her family have not had good outcomes with psychiatric drugs, which she is universalized into a belief that these drugs don't work.

[Jordan]

There we go.

[Dan]

Further, she seems to take issue with what she thinks is a universal belief that mental illnesses are passed on genetically, which gives credence to the idea that the solution to them should be drugs. Her family shared some mental health struggles, but her take on it is that it's not a genetic condition, it's a spiritual sickness. I don't really take much issue with that as a basic perspective. And my whole life has been in conversation with mental health issues. I've met people, including fellow mentally unwell people, as well as doctors, and some of them think medication is more important than other approaches and others don't. Some think that medication is right for them and others swear by it. Some people think I don't really want to mess with that. But everyone I've ever dealt with understands that there's a role for multiple approaches. I've never known anyone who thought a pill was a magic solution, but I do understand that that thinking did exist in the past. What perpetuated that kind of thinking was mostly marketing, where a company would try to brand their new pill as a miracle drug drug right up to the extent that the law would allow them to. Gwen worked in that machine. Her job as a pharmaceutical rep was to be the salesperson for these drugs. A different department was in charge of making the ads, but she was the part of the business that was on the ground asking the doctors, what can I put you down for? It makes total sense that existing in that world would make you think that the whole mental health approach in the country was based on pushing drugs. So I kind of don't judge Gwen too harshly for having that perspective. What she's presenting as the universal position isn't the universal position, but it probably felt that way to her. So I can see how that, like her coming from that place is sincere.

[Jordan]

Yeah, when I was sincere, when I was doing hearing aids, I was. I've done it in like general clinical areas where You've got an ophthalmologist and you got all that stuff. Right, right. And so I've seen so many drug reps buy so many lunches and it is, it is disillusioning. Don't get me wrong. There is no way to see one of those people walk in with like mediocre Chinese food catered and then realize that they're selling like oxycontin by the bucket load. But I don't know. What else are you going to do? Somebody's got to go.

[Dan]

I'm not going to ever argue that there is a major problem and has been for a long time with this structure of. Yeah, sure, but pharma is a business.

[Jordan]

Yeah, but I mean, once you start with like, oh, the medical industry is fucked as a business. Everybody agrees with you and so is everything. Exactly, yeah. Business is fucked as a business.

[Dan]

Yeah. When things like medications and shit have like gigantic financial incentives attached to them and shareholders and all this shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It becomes very messy and I think that's unhealthy. Healthy.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Insulin's free to make and it costs some amount of money. That's ungodly. So it's bullshit.

[Dan]

Yeah. So this book is generally, it seems like the story of a person who discovered that non medication approaches to dealing with mental illness and trauma existed and thinking that no one had ever heard of them. That seems to be what her journey is. Yeah. She worked as a pharmaceutical rep, so she probably wasn't exposed to as many people promoting yoga or meditation, which is being experienced as someone like, was trying to cover these things up and like. And that just is silly. It's all great to promote these kinds of things and taking a holistic approach to mental health, but if I'm being fair, that is not where this book stops. I agree with her on a very basic premise that she's making about this idea that medication isn't going to solve all your problems.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Dan]

But her argument expands to being anti medication in a way that her story does not earn. I resent this book and I think her approach and the impact of that book has done far more damage to people's mental health health than anything she did as a pharmaceutical rep. And I'm just gonna say this off the bat that I'm not gonna cover too much about what Gwen talks about on the show because a lot of is about her niece who died from suicide and that's very uncomfortable.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

The niece was struggling with mental illness and drug abuse and her mom was trying to get her help which Gwen didn't approve of because it involved medication. Gwen decided that all of her niece's symptoms were actually being caused by the medications and seemingly appointed herself as the niece's guardian and positioned herself as the enemy of her niece's mom, her sister.

[Jordan]

Oh, God.

[Dan]

It's honestly all very fucked up. And it's painfully obvious that Gwen projected a lot of her baggage onto the niece in a way that was entirely unfair and probably exacerbated what was already a horrible situation that she was in.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I read the story in Gwen's own words in her book, and I think an argument could be made that she's partially responsible for her niece's death.

[Jordan]

That.

[Dan]

That's.

[Jordan]

That would explain a lot of people's very vehement views. If you think about it for five seconds and go, well, you can either have that vehement view or recognize that you might be partially responsible for a lot of terrible shit.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Some people might think that that's taking it too far. So I'll just make a very safe statement, which is that she's exploiting her niece's death. And I find it disgusting.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that is what a lot of her interview is. So. So I don't. I'm not. I'm not engaging.

[Jordan]

It is. It is strange to have, like, the experience again. Like, one of my. My memoir. The memoir that. That did it for me, so to speak, was by Dr. K. Redfield Jameson. It's called An Unquiet Mind, and it's one of my favorite books anybody's ever written. And it is about somebody who is a doctor in the field who has bipolar type 1. The classic double whammon. Somebody's on both sides, you know, as opposed to somebody who's a pharmaceutical rep. And that is just not the space to be in. Yeah.

[Dan]

And. And I don't want to say that she's stupid by any means.

[Jordan]

No, that has nothing to do with intelligence as we consider it.

[Dan]

Well, there's a but coming. Well, I do think it's dumb the way that she presents herself as if she's a doctor in the book.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

She presents, like, a lot of. Well, I mean, I was selling these drugs to doctors, so I had to get. I had to learn a lot about them. Just like a doctor doctor. Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that's not really true. And it. It comes off really, really bad.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And I think that there's an. There's an extent to, like, I'm kind of trying to be gracious and nice by not covering her yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think I'd have really fucking horrible things to say if I did. And I. Let's not dwell on that.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it's, it's tough because it's like, like your clinical experience is talking to doctors. Doctors. Clinical experience is talking to people, you know, and so you can't have the same. You can't have the same point of view on efficacy.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. And your job is sales.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Dan]

Not medicine.

[Jordan]

The most evil job of medicine.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. So Alex talks a little bit about Prozac and how it is.

[Jordan]

Is great.

[Dan]

And really.

[Jordan]

Oh, nope.

[Dan]

Very bad.

[Jordan]

Unsurprising.

[Dan]

Surprised.

[Alex Jones]

In fact, let me ask you this, Gwen. Back in the early 80s when they approved Prozac, it's admitted now, and this actually came out a long time ago, right around that time that you were working for them. But it was in a few publications, but not really publicly widely circulated, that they knew it radically increased suicide around 15%, which is a huge increase, and was actually a suicide drug. I mean, it really encouraged it. That was one of the main effects. And then here they are pushing it for depression. Did you ever hear that when you were in the industry? Did you ever hear anybody criticize? Absolutely not. In fact, I only heard all of the positive information.

[Robert Mancero]

The drugs were non addicting, the drugs.

[Alex Jones]

Were benign, the drugs were not neurotoxic, all of that sort of thing.

[Dan]

So there's literally no reason why anyone in the pharmaceutical industry would be telling Gwen to say any of that stuff about their products. Yeah, none of it's true. So it would be entirely counterproductive for them to say like, oh, our product is neurotoxic or whatever.

[Jordan]

That would be crazy.

[Dan]

Silly.

[Jordan]

It would be crazy.

[Dan]

I'm not saying that pharmaceutical industry reps don't ever mislead people about their drugs. Just that it's not a lie to say that antidepressants aren't neurotoxic.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So there's a lot of studies about antidepressants like Prozac and whether or not they make things like suicidal ideation worse. Sure, most of it shows no evidence that they cause any increase, but there are some studies that suggest that they might. Because of that and because drug companies are very averse to getting sued, almost all medications prescribed for mood disorders have added a warning that say that they could cause an increase in suicidal ideation.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

This is less a reflection of a real risk that these medications pose and more of a way for drug handle companies to handle responsibility and spread it out. If you do A study about people who have depression with notable suicidal ideations, and you treat one group with Prozac and another group with a placebo, what outcome might you expect? Certainly with Alex's belief system, he would expect a higher incidence of suicidal ideation in the Prozac group after treatment because he thinks that the drug causes that. Right. That makes sense.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

The problem is that even if you had a study like that and those were the results you got, it would be very hard to untangle all the confounding variables. Yeah, you'd have a result that was worth discussing and retesting and looking more into, but you wouldn't have proven anything. A 2013 paper published in the Journal of Psychological Research hoped to find a way to get rid of some of the more serious confounding variables, primarily how severe depression, if you have it, can be hard to identify how much of the symptoms are caused by the condition compared to the treatment. Sure, an ideal situation would be to treat non depressed people with Prozac and see if they got depressed or suicidal. But that study wasn't available and no one's gonna do that.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Something kinda close was though. A 2004 outpatient study was done with patients suffering from minor depression who had much lower rates of suicidal ideation. These patients were split into double blind groups, one being treated with Prozac and the other with a placebo. And they were checked up on for 12 weeks. Basically, they had those questionnaires that you get and they ask you about your suicidal ideations, rated on a scale of 0 to 4.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

And this paper analyzed the rates that people in the Prozac and placebo groups had increases of one or two points. They found that people in the placebo placebo group had higher rates of increased suicidal ideation, but the amount was statistically insignificant. However, there was a wrinkle. There was no statistical significance in the difference in groups in terms of who had an increase of one or two points. But if you only included the people who had baseline suicidal ideation at the beginning of the study, people in the group treated with Prozac had significantly less of an increase. For patients without suicidal ideation before the study, 5.1% of the placebo group had an increase of 2 points, whereas the Prozac group was 3.5%. That's not that big of a difference. For patients who had initial suicidal ideation, 40.9% of the placebo group had increases of 2 points compared to 12.5% with the Prozac group.

[Jordan]

That makes sense.

[Dan]

Does this paper prove anything? Not necessarily. Although the data does tend to support the opposite of Alex's hypothesis. Sure. It seems to suggest that the severity of symptoms is itself a confounding variable to understanding what symptoms could be caused by medications and what could be a part of someone dealing with the condition that the medication is seeking to treat.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

There are a ton of studies out there about SSRIs, and I would never pretend to say that all of it says that every drug is safe all the time. But I'm comfortable saying that Alex is lying. And the question's so much more complicated.

[Jordan]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, the one. The one thing that is nice about it is that generally speaking, the profit motivation keeps you from making poison. It generally doesn't make you money, at least long term, to murder people instantly. That usually doesn't help.

[Dan]

Soft kill.

[Jordan]

Yeah, they're. They're not for it in an evil way. You can trust them for being evil. They just get more money if you don't kill yourself.

[Dan]

True.

[Jordan]

So there you go. You've got that going for you.

[Dan]

Yeah, I guess it's not really an optimistic thing to say. Well, based on just like pure capitalist motivations there, they want you to have a shit life, but not.

[Jordan]

But it's. But that's what I'm saying. That's what makes it more trustworthy. If you were like, oh, these people want you to live, I'd be like, Those motherfuckers make McDonald's and shit like that. But if you're like, they want more money, I'd be like, yes, thank you. I will take your pill.

[Dan]

Sure.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So, you know, a lot of this has to do with the idea of side effects from psychiatric meds and how. Oh, everyone, it's gonna make you all want to kill yourself. It's all bad.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Dan]

So, as I was listening to this, I got kind of weirded out by a commercial that came on right after that conversation.

[Jordan]

Don't.

[Alex Jones]

Do you know the truth about breast cancer? Did you know that the race for the cure is over? The best kept secret in the country today is that it is now possible to kill cancer without personal theft, suffering, mutilation, and poisoning of your entire system. Now it's cancer's turn to die. With laysmed Inc's patented methodology, without cutting, bleeding drugs or damaging radiation, we can destroy tumors of any size without adverse side effects.

[Dan]

Without adverse side effects.

[Jordan]

I mean, come on now. That's the most lying lie I've ever heard in my entire fucking life. Yeah, that's crazy.

[Dan]

We've talked about it on an episode way back. But just as a brief refresher, laysmed Inc. Was a company run by a person named Antonella Carpenter. She wasn't a doctor, and she lied to people about being able to cure all cancers and eliminate tumors with a laser. In 2011, she was successfully sued for $2.5 million by a patient she had defrauded. And in 2016, she was found guilty of 29 counts, including fraud, inducing people to travel and interstate commerce in an effort to defraud them and wire fraud.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

She got super lucky that the judge just gave her five years probation and required her to pay restitution.

[Jordan]

What?

[Dan]

Because, well, she was really old.

[Jordan]

I know.

[Dan]

I got 71.

[Jordan]

I'm fine. I don't care.

[Dan]

I think they were just like, whatever.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But, yeah, she could have done some the rest of her life, basically in jail. The charges she was convicted of.

[Jordan]

She did a lot of crimes.

[Dan]

I would take Alex's shit about antidepressants and Big Pharma a little more seriously if he wasn't accepting ad money from this wildly irresponsible and fraudulent company. His complaints about how the medical system doesn't take side effects of medication seriously just can't exist in the same broadcast as someone claiming they can use a laser and salient to get rid of all your tumors with no side effects. Yeah, it's cool to criticize Big Pharma, I assure you. I think it's cool. But if you do, you can't take that woman's money.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

One of the things that's particularly chilling about this commercial is that when this all went to court, it was really impossible to tell how many people Carpenter had played a role in killing. Anyone who went to see her. Got no treatment at all, but they left being told that they were totally cured. Yeah. None of them were cured, though. And all of them that had malignant tumors got worse. Seven former patients brought charges against her, and five of them were dead before she faced trial. Yeah. Antonella Carpenter was a piece of shit. And anybody who would air this ad is complicit and just as big of a piece of shit. Yeah.

[Jordan]

There's no way to listen to the ad and not be complicit in what is obviously a lie.

[Dan]

Yes. Yeah. It's a ridiculous claim that you. You would. If you had any instinct, you'd be like, we gotta prove this before we take this money.

[Jordan]

I mean, you're just saying, oh, I have magic.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And it's dangerous magic.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I have dangerous magic.

[Dan]

So keep in mind that this episode is from 2006 as I read to you this passage from an article in Tulsa World about this lady's trial. Quote, the daughter of one patient who died after being treated by Carpenter in 2006, said Carpenter screamed at her and hung up the telephone after she called. Called to say her father was paralyzed on his right side and the cancerous tumor had broken through his skin. It's entirely possible that that person heard about her through Alex's show. He's running ads for her in 2006.

[Jordan]

Yep. Yep.

[Dan]

I don't. I don't think it's impossible. Nope. Alex, in some way, indirectly.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Semi directly, profited off of. Of this lady, her dad getting paralyzed.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the side effects thing is such a. Is such a difficult one to pin down because anything that is a consequence of something we also describe as a side effect of something, you know? So it is like, oh, we can get rid of your tumor with no side effects is insane, because just by virtue of something growing inside of you and then removing it, there will be side effects to that, to having it removed. Your body is not just like, oh, cool, great, now we got that out of us. We'll just do nothing with this space.

[Dan]

Well, there'll be cool side effects.

[Jordan]

Exactly. There's going to be weird shit that happens no matter what. The. The idea of just being like, hey, we'll deal with cancer. You know that thing that humans have been really pissed off about for basically all of time by just zapping it with a laser.

[Dan]

And then you'll be, yeah, I read a number of articles about this lady, and I had discussed it all over again. It's crazy stuff. Like, she would just put a laser on people and then be like, your tumor is dead. It's fine. And then their tumor would grow.

[Jordan]

Of course.

[Dan]

Go to a doctor and they'd be like, well, your tumor's bigger. And then she'd be like, that doctor doesn't know what he's talking about. It's dead. They can't even tell the difference between living and dead.

[Jordan]

It's like. It's like when you meet somebody who's just truly a predator, you know? Like, this is a person who just feeds on people at no point in time. How could you even, like, look somebody in the face after zapping them with a laser and then they tell you that their tumor is bigger and be like, that guy's an idiot.

[Dan]

Yeah, Doctor, watch it.

[Jordan]

That's crazy. At the very least, be like, Yeah, I know. I fucked up.

[Dan]

You know, one of the things that I wanted to learn more about, but I was unable to figure out out was that the articles said that she made the lasers herself. And it did also say that she had a physics degree, so I could believe she made some sort of little machine.

[Alex Jones]

Sure.

[Dan]

But I wanted to know more about that laser.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I could not find. I could not get to the bottom of.

[Jordan]

We're dealing with a lot of stuff that makes a lot more sense in 1910. That's what it feels like. This episode, even though it's from 2006, should really be from 1916.

[Dan]

Nostradamus, Alex running magic ads. Also, one last thing about this lady. She saw a patient. Yeah, patient in quotes. Because she insists she was not doing medicine legally. I mean, so she saw someone who had growth and she decided that it was cancer, but it wasn't. But the way that she determined that it was was that she injected some food coloring into it and then was like, the color stayed. It's. It's cancer. This is classic cancer. She used food coloring.

[Jordan]

Oh, my God.

[Dan]

Because, you know they use dyes in hospital.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it's so. It's the same thing, you know, like a. Like a PET scan is really just punching you in the face.

[Dan]

Just food coloring.

[Jordan]

Jesus Christ.

[Dan]

Yeah. Awesome.

[Jordan]

Yeah. That is a person who is just fucking. That's the type of crazy where it's like, like, oh, you're not crazy, but you're the craziest person I've ever met in my entire life.

[Dan]

So, so, so crazy. Yeah. And it's just good to remember that Alex is doing this episode that is so much about attacking the institution of, like, medical based mental health interventions, and he's willing to take money from this malicious predator asshole who is allowing people to get worse and with their cancers for money. So fuck them.

[Jordan]

I mean, you know, like, there. There's just a small amount of honor that I wish for, which is like, hey, you've already given me your money. That's done. I scammed you. Go to a doctor. Get out of here, you scamp. Like, that's. That's at least better than the second call being. No, you're totally fine. Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's crazy.

[Dan]

So we have one last clip here. The end of the show, the last hour is Alex hanging out with his buddy George Humphrey.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

This dude is so fucking boring. I don't. I think he must be paying Alex to be on the show.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like, he sucks. He is so boring. He has so little to say he has no charisma. And Alex does on multiple occasions bring up that he is a successful, rich businessman. So I think that friends. But also maybe he's paying Alex to be on the show because he's adding.

[Jordan]

Nothing I've never said about people that I was having a good time with. He's a successful businessman. That's never been necessary.

[Dan]

Well, I think in some context that he does it. It does make some sense because they're talking about, like, NAFTA and gas.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

You know, like, they're talking about these things that affect business in the United States.

[Jordan]

And you're a business person.

[Dan]

Exactly.

[Jordan]

Do you do business? Yeah.

[Dan]

So thankfully, it's not just George.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

Alex gets a emergency call from Ron Paul. So he chats with Ron 2006, man. A little bit. And this is an interesting thing to hear.

[Alex Jones]

Last week, we talked about impeachment. Democrats winning control of the Congress. You believe that they'll then try to implement. Impeach Bush. How do you see that coming down?

[Caller]

I suspect they will. They've introduced the resolution already. And it would be both because they're angry, just for general political reasons, but they really, really would like to get payback for what Republicans did with Clinton. So if they get. If they get a majority in the House, I believe they'll take it up in a very serious manner.

[Alex Jones]

But overall, do you think it will be positive to see the executive branch punished? Just for precedent. I mean, right now, the executive claiming imperial power, Would it be positive to see the executive punished?

[Caller]

I think anything that diminishes the power of the executive branch or the central government is beneficial to the people and.

[Alex Jones]

To the cause of liberty. Congressman, you're a trooper. You're a champion of liberty. You are just an amazing American, and we're glad to have you up there as a standard of the paleo conservatism. And God bless you. Thanks for spending time with us. Have a great weekend.

[Dan]

Thank you.

[Alex Jones]

You bet.

[Dan]

And I will 100% support the opposite of this a little bit down the road when your son is a bummer. Your son sucks. Yeah. Couldn't be elected, so I decided to just abandon all this shit.

[Jordan]

You know, in a way, the Paul family let us down.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Jordan]

It's all them. If Rand hadn't been so shit, well, Alex might have stayed on that train.

[Dan]

Let me. Let me just say one thing. A Rand Paul presidency would not be great. Or a Ron Paul one, honestly. I mean, like, he's just as much of a. Like, destroy the state. White. White identity. Kind of fella, like he has a lot of those same inclinations. It's just. Yeah, no, they did let us down in a sense. They could have maintained a holding pattern with Alex that, that probably could have contained some of this stuff. If Rand Paul didn't suck, if Ron Paul wasn't too old to run again as a goof. Yeah. It's that let. That let Trump sneak in there. They needed a good candidate to like rally around and be like, he could have won.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Instead they had Trump in that slot and like he had. He fucked around and won.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And that, that ruined everything.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah, man. Let it not be said enough. That's how much Hillary Clinton sucked.

[Dan]

Well after, you know, after the 2016 election, a little bit down the road, Webster Tarpley wrote that essay about how the Paul family was the, the vestibule that led into fascism and how the falling apart of the libertarianism that they had created allowed for because it was ultimately shown to be fairly empty and destroyable. And that vacuum allowed Trump to suck all them up.

[Jordan]

Yeah. If, if Rand or Ron had gained real power, their direction would have been to keep the militia people in their foxholes like waiting, you know, like keep em small, Keep them in like little regions. Not take over the whole fucking country.

[Dan]

No. And, and I, I think that they at least. Well, I mean they never really had the opportunity, so who knows. But it feels like they would not like kidnap Maduro. They would not want to buy Greenland.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like they aren't interested in an imperial president. And Alex in that clip is pretending that he's not either.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Ross Perot would have kidnapped Maduro.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Jordan]

So for sure. I think we've understood something about allowing billionaire lunatics to have power.

[Dan]

Ross Perot would have tried to get Maduro to kidnap him. That's how crazy he was.

[Jordan]

Ross Perot really had some big plans. Yeah. Yeah. God bless him.

[Dan]

But yeah, I think that there's something fun about Alex interviewing his idol here in 2006 and expressing the polar opposite of what he believes now about restraining the executive and the imperial president needing to be punished and, and liberty and all this shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But when you.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it is, it is wild what 20 years can do.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Jordan]

Because it didn't used to have that power 20 years back in the day. I used to be the same 20 years in like the 1400s. Oh, 1420 to 1440. You probably had the same life.

[Dan]

Yeah, I bet. I bet not. I bet. I bet. I, I don't know. I mean the 60s and the 80s are pretty different.

[Jordan]

That's true.

[Dan]

But how much of that is just recency, you know? Like I bet. I bet.

[Jordan]

No, I bet on the day to day basis, I think people would have a more stable. Well, stable is the wrong word to use.

[Dan]

I bet, I bet also this is the. I bet it depends on the 20. I bet 1490 to 1510. Pretty crazy. That was at 1492. Columbus. Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

[Jordan]

Yeah. But that didn't really bother anybody. I mean, except for the people that he murdered here.

[Dan]

Down the line it bothers.

[Jordan]

Down the line, it bother. Bothered a lot of people.

[Dan]

Do you think within 20 years, probably.

[Jordan]

I don't know. Did he even bring back that much good shit? Like, I'm pretty sure that the Spanish didn't feel too much love from Columbus, if that makes sense. You know what I mean?

[Dan]

What?

[Jordan]

I don't think he brought too much back.

[Dan]

Well, I mean it's so much space on those boats.

[Jordan]

That's fair.

[Dan]

So many spices there's in there.

[Jordan]

Just not that big of boats. You gotta cross the ocean.

[Dan]

Also, what did they have back then? They didn't have like frozen pizza. They didn't have Twinkies?

[Alex Jones]

No.

[Jordan]

It was just a search for salt.

[Dan]

They didn't have Faygo.

[Jordan]

Yeah. That was it.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

They did not have fake whoop whoop.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

They did not have the dark carnival.

[Dan]

No. Nope. And I think that's what. That's why 20 years is all monotonous. They didn't have.

[Jordan]

That's why our last 20 years have been so interesting.

[Dan]

So I'd like the past.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I'm enjoying being in the past.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And so I'm going to stay in it. Certainly not indefinitely.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

I'll check back in on present stuff for a bit. But I think that for mental health and for everyone's well being, this is great.

[Jordan]

I think the present has got some work to do. Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And until that is kind of handled or at least, you know, addressed, I think we should just stick around.

[Dan]

Yeah. The arguments that Alex and his elk are making deserve a punch. Not a. Not a discussion very much. But also.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Did you see the news about what happened to our boy Elijah? No. Elijah Schaefer, the guy who hates Indians?

[Jordan]

No. What? Oh, what?

[Dan]

Okay, I'm gonna do my best to explain this. This is going to be tough. So there was this Catholic young lady who was an influencer who went on Jubilee. You know that surrounded show on YouTube where you got 20 people sitting in a circle and they argue with one person in the middle.

[Jordan]

Fine.

[Dan]

She was on that and she got. She went viral because she was like, what's wrong with white nationalism?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like she became kind of a poster child of Catholic, Dominionist, white nationalist.

[Jordan]

Good for her.

[Dan]

Yeah. Fuentes adjacent kind of shit. Anyway, Elijah Schaefer ends up fucking her in a way that she describes very much as sexual assault. She describes him giving her Benadryl.

[Jordan]

Jesus.

[Dan]

A bunch of drinks.

[Jordan]

Fucking hell.

[Dan]

And she was getting married to a guy and was apparently pretending to be saving herself for marriage and then cheated on him with Elijah Schaefer, who was married and had kids.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And I think was her boss. I'm not sure.

[Jordan]

Stuff.

[Dan]

Anyway, yeah, this all came out because Milo Yiannopoulos decided to leak a bunch of shit.

[Jordan]

Oh my God.

[Dan]

And destroy a bunch of people's lives.

[Jordan]

All of them deserve each other. All of them. You. I wish I could make a worse hell than the one they make for themselves because they deserve worse than it. And yet somehow they make themselves the worst.

[Dan]

Brutal. It's pretty crazy because not too long ago we heard Elijah on Alex's show and I thought maybe this would be a fun weirdo to check out.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And then this happens.

[Jordan]

Here we go.

[Dan]

My man. Come on.

[Jordan]

Yeah, man.

[Dan]

Career's done.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yep. That's the end of that.

[Dan]

Oh, well, anyway, we'll check in on Alex on what he's doing on 3 11, the day he hates.

[Jordan]

Because of the band.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah, he hates 311.

[Jordan]

Well, I mean, I didn't like their cover of Love Song. I'm not. I'm just going to tell that. I'm just going to be honest. I didn't like it.

[Dan]

Wrong. Everything by 311 is perfect. So that actually might be a Saturday. I think this is a Friday show. So there might not be a 311 show. But whatever. We'll check back in on Tuesday 2006. But until then, we have a website.

[Jordan]

Indeed we do. It's Knowledge Fight dot com.

[Dan]

Yep. We'll be back. But until then. I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I am the mysterious Professor.

[Jordan]

And now here comes the sex robot.

[Alex Jones]

Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.

[Dan]

Thanks for holding.

[Jordan]

Hello, Alex. I'm a first time caller.

[Caller]

I'm a huge fan.

[Jordan]

I love your work.

[Dan]

I love you.