Ralph Nader Hour - Sunday, August 24, 2025

Summary

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Ralph Nader Radio Hour – August 24, 2025

Main Theme Overview

This episode of the Ralph Nader Radio Hour delves deeply into two of the most significant humanitarian and political crises facing the U.S. and the globe today: the unchecked expansion and wastefulness of the U.S. military budget, and the severe underreporting and framing of Palestinian casualties in Gaza.
The program features two prominent guests:

• Ben Cohen (co-founder of Ben & Jerry's and anti-war activist), discussing his new advocacy group Up in Arms and broad efforts to rein in military spending.
• Arwa Mahdawi (Guardian columnist), challenging Western media coverage of Gaza and arguing the actual death toll is vastly undercounted.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Military Budget and Up in Arms Campaign

Guest: Ben Cohen

Segment starts [03:40]

• Background and Motivation

  • Ben Cohen describes the U.S. government’s replacement of values like "heart and soul" with a "bloated, wasteful, and very damaging military budget."
  • He criticizes the bipartisan political consensus to expand the Pentagon budget, equating it to prioritizing killing over the American dream.
  • Notable quote:

    "They've turned us all into mass murderers... they’re spending all the money on preparing to kill literally millions of people around the world. And that’s why we are up in Arms." – Ben Cohen [04:39]

• The Up in Arms Organization

  • Up in Arms is a 501(c)(3), open for tax-deductible contributions, and is running a 4-year campaign to raise awareness and pressure Congress.
  • Cohen describes innovative protest actions, including inserting a “Remember Hiroshima” dollar bill into Disneyland’s “It’s a Small World” ride—a viral moment garnering social media traction.
  • The campaign is framed as fighting a “moral malaise” rooted in misplaced societal priorities.

• Concrete Reforms & Congressional Resistance

  • Ralph Nader and Cohen discuss decades of declining congressional oversight and abetting of military industrial contractors.
  • The military budget now eclipses even what generals request, with rampant bipartisan support.
  • Nader suggests "shadow hearings," collaboration with veterans groups, and direct action for media coverage.
  • Cohen agrees, referencing partnerships with Veterans for Peace and the need to amplify whistleblowers and credible retired military voices.

• Benefits of Reallocating Military Funds

  • Cohen details what even a fraction of Pentagon funds could accomplish:
    • Fully fund public schools for $20B/year
    • Eliminate homelessness for $10B/year
    • Significantly reduce world hunger for $40B/year
    • Universal access to solar-powered homes for $20–$40B/year
  • Notable quote:

    "For $20 billion a year, we could fully fund all of our public schools. For $10 billion a year, we could eliminate homelessness." – Ben Cohen [12:52]

• Oversight and Corruption in the Pentagon

  • Nader highlights that the Pentagon is in violation of federal law by failing to provide an auditable budget since 1992.
  • Cohen emphasizes universal public support for accountability:

    "If there’s a poll of the American people and said you think the Pentagon budget should be auditable, you probably break 95%." – Ralph Nader [19:23]

• The “Priorities Pen” Awareness Tool

  • Cohen has developed and updated a pen with a pull-out bar graph comparing U.S. military spending to other countries—a simple but impactful educational device.
  • Nader endorses it as a powerful visual for public events.
  • Notable quote:

    "It’s a pen that has a banner that pulls out of the barrel... shows how much the Pentagon spends versus how much other countries spend." – Ben Cohen [21:09]

• Call to Action:

  • Cohen appeals for listeners to visit UpInArms.Life, sign up, write letters to editors, and contact legislators to challenge military spending priorities.
  • Direct quote:

    "Legislators are affected by letters to the editor in your hometown paper. They're affected by phone calls... Let them know what you think." – Ben Cohen [22:39]

• Additional Angles & Conclusions

  • Discussion of how budget bloat actually weakens military readiness, delays weapons delivery, and breeds corruption ([24:03]).
  • Nader emphasizes the importance of investigating and exposing corruption, reduced oversight, and lobbying influence.
  • Cohen critiques the ongoing marginalization of oversight bodies and testing agencies within the Pentagon.
  • On the consequence of left/progressive political leadership, Cohen is optimistic:

    "I think I end up living in a much kinder, compassionate world... The idea that we’re not able to provide for our people, as well as a bunch of other countries that are a lot poorer than us, is illogical." – Ben Cohen [29:01]

  • Concludes with an urgent call to hold politicians accountable, especially regarding U.S. weapons to Israel:

    "We need to make our politicians pay the price for continuing to arm Israel. Vote him out." – Ben Cohen [34:30]

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2. Gaza Death Toll and Media Misrepresentation

Guest: Arwa Mahdawi

Segment starts [37:16]

• Undercounting Palestinian Deaths

  • Mahdawi underscores a severe undercount of deaths in Gaza—likely in the hundreds of thousands, not the official “about 60,000.”
  • She argues that to underreport the death toll is journalistic malpractice, pointing to peer-reviewed studies and on-the-ground evidence.
  • Direct quote:

    "As journalists, you’re always supposed to report facts... We have absolutely no idea how many people are dead in the Gaza Strip." – Arwa Mahdawi [39:35]

• Western Media Framing and Systemic Bias

  • Mahdawi critiques U.S. legacy media (New York Times, Washington Post, etc.) for defaulting to official Israeli or U.S. government lines and implicitly distrusting Palestinian sources.
  • She observes a pattern of dehumanization, referencing U.S. government statements and a willingness to trust unsubstantiated Israeli government claims while dismissing Palestinian accounts.
  • Notable quote:

    "Palestinians have been dehumanized in the media for decades... there’s this instinct to believe that Palestinians are lying and Israelis are telling the truth." – Arwa Mahdawi [39:35]

• Media & Political Pressures

  • Both Mahdawi and Nader identify a climate of fear among reporters and editors, who are wary of pro-Israel lobbying and political backlash—a key reason for editorial timidity.
  • Mahdawi recounts personal experiences with coordinated pressure campaigns over Gaza coverage.
  • She notes a growing divide as younger generations rely more on social media, where alternative narratives and uncensored images circulate more freely.

• Magnitude of Gaza Destruction

  • Nader compares the scale of bombing and casualties to WWII:

    "Twice as many Palestinians have been killed than the number of fatalities from Hiroshima, Nagasaki in Dresden during World War II." – Ralph Nader [44:10]

• Citizen Action

  • Mahdawi urges listeners to push for more diverse coverage, write to media outlets, and request reporting on the true scale of casualties, media access, and the inclusion of Palestinian voices.
  • She spotlights how even terminology (“Hamas-run ministry”) is used to delegitimize casualty figures.
  • Notable quote:

    "Write to the media outlets and say you want to see more Palestinian narratives... Reader pressure. It does work." – Arwa Mahdawi [55:23]

• The Legal Definition of Genocide and Its Ramifications

  • Mahdawi references the destruction of Gaza’s IVF center, withheld medical supplies, and lasting consequences of malnutrition, aligning Israeli actions with the UN’s definition of genocide.
  • Importance of accurate tolls for historical record, moral clarity, and legal accountability.
  • Direct quote:

    "For the legal definition of genocide, numbers don’t matter... But so many people use that 60,000 figure to say, 'only 60,000 in two years, it’s not genocide.'" – Arwa Mahdawi [53:49]

• Role of Citizen and Data Journalism

  • Mahdawi highlights the importance and challenges facing new-media and independent outlets in surfacing untold stories—suggests that much of the best reporting now comes from social media and smaller organizations, given mainstream barriers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "A nuclear arsenal capable of blowing up the entire world several times over, that's not deterrence, that's delusion. I'm a Jew, but even I know this is not something that Jesus would do."
  – Ben Cohen [04:39]

• "When you have more money than is needed, you tend to invite corruption... throwing money at a government program, especially at that scale, and corruption."
  – Ralph Nader [25:14]

• "Every major defense contractor has been prosecuted for fraud. Mostly they settle out of court."
  – Ben Cohen [26:40]

• "For $40 billion a year you can eliminate world hunger in a way that helps people to become food self sufficient."
  – Ben Cohen [12:52]

• "If the true casualty figure of deaths in Gaza is publicized... more have been killed than all U.S. soldiers killed in World War II... twice as many Palestinians as Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden."
  – Ralph Nader [44:10]

• "There is this gap between these great features and the sort of supposedly objective reporting, which has this sort of insidious slant to it."
  – Arwa Mahdawi [47:37]

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Key Timestamps

• 03:40 – Ben Cohen introduced; Up in Arms campaign mission
• 04:39 – Cohen critiques moral loss fueling military expansion
• 08:56 – Up in Arms' structure and direct actions
• 12:52 – Cohen details what shifting Pentagon funds could accomplish
• 21:09 – The “Priorities Pen” explained
• 22:39 – Listener action steps against military budget creep
• 24:03 – Military budget bloat weakens U.S. actual defense
• 29:01 – Cohen on the potential for a more compassionate U.S.
• 34:30 – Cohen’s call to action: accountability for continued U.S. arming of Israel
• 37:16 – Arwa Mahdawi segment begins: Gaza undercount and media bias
• 39:35 – Mahdawi: Journalistic malpractice, media bias against Palestinians
• 44:10–46:24 – Nader’s comparison of Gaza to WWII, public/media responsibility
• 47:37 – On insidious media framing and marginalization of Palestinian accounts
• 51:51 – Destruction of Gaza’s IVF center and targeting reproductive health
• 54:09 – Independent media and data journalism’s role
• 55:23 – Mahdawi urges listener activism targeting news outlets

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Action Steps for Listeners

• Visit UpInArms.Life to join the Pentagon budget reform movement.
• Write to local and national media, urging deeper investigation into the Gaza death toll and broader Palestinian representation.
• Call your elected officials to demand transparency and a reevaluation of U.S. military spending priorities.
• Speak up in your community, at town halls, in the press, and on social media to counter apathy and expose corruption.
• Leverage simple educational tools (like the Priorities Pen) to visualize and communicate budget realities.

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Concluding Thoughts

This episode is an urgent call for American citizens to question official narratives—on military spending and foreign policy alike; to demand transparency, compassion, and a realignment of national priorities to better reflect human welfare both at home and abroad.

Transcript

[Host/Announcer]

Evening from 10pm until midnight. Coming up tonight, Kate Burton and Matthew Riis honor the centenary of Welsh poet.

[Steve Scrovan]

Dylan Thomas in our brand new production.

[Host/Announcer]

Of his famed play for voices.

[Ben Cohen]

The Shops in Mourning.

[Host/Announcer]

The Welfare hall in widow's Weeds. And all the people of the lulled and dumbfound town are sleeping now Under.

[Steve Scrovan]

Milkwood by Dylan Thomas.

[Host/Announcer]

Next time on L a TheatreWorks. That's LA TheatreWorks coming up here on KPFK tonight at 10pm.

[Ralph Nader]

This is Ralph Nader and you're listening to Radio Powered by the People, KPFK, 90.7 FM Los Angeles, 98.7 FM Santa Barbara, and across the globe at kpfk.org.

[Ben Cohen]

This is Ben Cohn, the Ice cream guy. And you're listening to my hero, Ralph Nader, the Ralph Nader Radio Hour.

[Ralph Nader]

Stand up. Stand up.

[Ben Cohen]

You've been sitting way too long.

[Steve Scrovan]

Welcome to the Ralph Nader Radio Hour. My name is Steve Scrovan, along with my co host, David Feldman. Hello, David.

[Arwa Mahdawi]

Hello, Steve.

[Steve Scrovan]

And our producer, Hannah Feldman. Hello, Hannah.

[Hannah Feldman]

Hello, Steve.

[Steve Scrovan]

And the man of the hour, you know who that is. Ralph Nader. Hello, Ralph.

[Ralph Nader]

Hello, everybody. This is a good one for you. One of the biggest issues of our time.

[Steve Scrovan]

First up today, we're joined by Ben Cohen, co founder of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream and a longtime anti war activist. Today we'll speak to him about his new campaign, up in Arms, targeting the nearly $900 billion Pentagon budget and the $100 billion spent on nuclear weapons. His goal is to, quote, get our country to start funding the American dream instead of the death of millions of people, unquote. He's co founded up in Arms with retired military officers and national security experts, including friends of the show, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson and Matthew Ho. And they argued that a budget is a moral document. The US Budget literally shows us what our country values. So we'll speak to him today about how up in Arms is planning to advocate for a common sense Pentagon budget. Next up, we speak to journalist Arwa Madawi, who writes in the Guardian, quote, we have no idea how many people have been killed in Gaza, but I would bet my own life that the number is far higher than the 60,000 number the media uses, end quote. And she goes on to say, quote, at this stage, it feels like journalistic malpractice to talk about 60,000 people being dead with without explaining that the number is likely far higher. As always, somewhere in the middle. We'll check in with our indomitable corporate crime reporter, Russell Mokhiber. But first, it's time to reevaluate America's military budget.

[Arwa Mahdawi]

David Ben Cohn is an entrepreneur, philanthropist and longtime anti war activist. He is co founder of the ice cream company Ben and Jerry's and a prominent supporter of progressive causes is co founder of up in Arms, a public education and advocacy campaign. Public pushing for a common sense approach to military budgeting. In May of this year, Ben was arrested by Capitol Police after he interrupted Robert F. Kennedy Jr's testimony by screaming, quote, congress kills poor kids in Gaza by buying bombs and pays for it by kicking kids off Medicaid, unquote. Welcome to the Ralph Nader Radio Hour. Ben Cohen.

[Ben Cohen]

Ah, hello David. Happy to be here.

[Ralph Nader]

Welcome again, Ben Cohen. We've known each other for a long time and we want to have you publicize your new group which you announced in June in Washington D.C. called up in Arms to take on the bloated, wasteful and very damaging military budget. Listeners should know that you for years funded and participated in a bus to educate public about the military budget that went all over the United States. Isn't that correct?

[Ben Cohen]

Yep, that's correct.

[Ralph Nader]

And you just met hundreds of thousands of people in your tours. You were indefatigable, so that's the background.

[Ben Cohen]

You're also indefatigable, pal. I'm just following in your footsteps.

[Ralph Nader]

Well, the big footstep you've now imprinted is this group called up in Arms. Tell us about it. Where is it at? And I'm curious to know why you didn't get much press in that major press conference in Washington D.C. on June 14th.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, well, the campaign is called Upinarms Life. And essentially we're up in Arms because the government has taken the kindness, the heart, the soul of the American people and essentially replaced it with so many bombs that there's no rational use for them. They've turned us all into mass murderers. And you know, Americans are compassionate. They don't want to kill families just like ours in other countries. People want a good life for themselves and their kids, a decent place to live that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, good schools, affordable childcare. But when they go to the government talking about that, the government says, hey, there's just not enough money. What the government doesn't say is that they're spending all the money on preparing to kill literally millions of people around the world. And that's why we are up in Arms. You know, politicians starting from Reagan are fond of saying a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought. And then they turn around and spend $100 billion a year on a nuclear arsenal that's capable of blowing up the entire world several times over. So, you know, they say one thing and they do another. I mean, a nuclear arsenal capable of blowing up the entire world several times over, that's not deterrence, that's delusion. I mean, I'm a Jew, but even I know this is not something that Jesus would do. I mean, he's the guy who said, where your treasure is, there lies your heart. And that's the big problem. That's what is leading to the moral malaise that's infected our country. And that's what up in Arms is looking to change.

[Ralph Nader]

We want to dig deeper. Now, up in arms is a 501C3 organization. Therefore you can contribute to it and have it deductible. We'll give you more information later. But it comes at the worst time for waging peace in our modern history apart from wartime, because now we have both Democrats and Republicans on the same page in Congress pushing for more military budget dollars than the generals have asked for. And on April 1st in the Washington Post, Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican, and Senator Chris Coons, Democrat, had an op ed jointly authored on the need for more of everything. More munitions, more weapons of mass destruction, more money, and indicated we needed to be all over the world opposing our adversaries that they listed as China, North Korea, Iran, Russia. I mean, it's beating the military drums of war and they're reflecting a bigger budget. Reported from the Senate Armed Services Committee on a 26 to 3 vote for the next fiscal year. Well, it wasn't just McConnell and coons. It was the majority of Republicans and Democrats in the Congress that has since 2011 looked the other way. The waste, corruption and other devastating effects of the military budget with its never ending. Insatiable contractors like Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Boeing, General Dynamics, they don't know the word enough. They want more submarines, more F35s, more artillery, more this, more that. Totally out of control. And the Democrats and Republicans have blocked any congressional investigation hearings that used to be held routinely in the Senate and House and just oversight trying to publicize Defense Department audits that used to come out with some frequency showing all the waste and fraud and. And the Government Accountability Project that used to put out more reports at the request of members of Congress, which that has diminished as well. So with that background, up in Arms is the first pulse of a organized citizenry. And how are you communicating the need for it? Ben Cohen?

[Ben Cohen]

Well, actually, the up in Arms campaign is a four year campaign. We have planned activities to get this message out into the public every two weeks. And actually today is the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima which killed about 150,000 people. And you know, that was one little nuclear bomb. The ones we have today are 10, 20, 30 times bigger. And the reality is that today's nuclear arsenal is the equivalent of 50,000 Hiroshima sized bombs. That's not deterrence, that's delusion. That's absurd. And so actually I think it was yesterday up in Arms operatives entered Disneyland and inserted a dollar with us holding up a sign that says remember Hiroshima into the It's a small world after all ride. And that has started to get a whole bunch of media coverage, social media coverage. I'm told it's already got a million views from something somebody posted that we didn't even post. So yeah, that's one of the ways where we're looking to get the message out. And you know, I don't know if I want to reveal some of the other stuff.

[Ralph Nader]

Are you pushing for shadow hearings maybe by the Democrats? They're in the minority but nothing can keep them from having shadow hearings and committee rooms with witnesses. And you got plenty of them who are well known and experienced in military affairs and want peace as well as the media. Have you thought about doing that? This is just the beginning of a series of suggestions on this program, listeners, because I know Ben Cohen believes in the following truism. None of us are smart as all of us. So let's start with hearings that could get you media coverage that you didn't get on your announcement because it's in Congress.

[Ben Cohen]

It sounds like a great idea to me. Ralph, we haven't explored that idea. I really appreciate you raising it and I'm going to talk to our guys about it.

[Ralph Nader]

Okay, Connect with Congress Watch. They're looking at the military budget that's part of Public Citizen and they have people who go up on the Hill regularly. So that's a good ally. Second suggestion is have you connected with Veterans for Peace, which is all over the place, demonstrating, marching, nonviolent, civil disobedient. They have 100 chapters all over the country. They just finished a 40 day fast. A number of them in communion with the starving people of Gaza. Have you connected with them?

[Ben Cohen]

I certainly have. I had a conversation with Mike Ferner who used to be the leader of it and was on this hunger fast and ended up in the hospital. Great guy. And yeah, I have tremendous respect for Veterans for Peace. They put Their bodies, where their mouths are. And they're dedicated and they do great work.

[Ralph Nader]

Another suggestion is to quote former retired top military who know where the waste is from their experience in the Pentagon and they're willing to speak out. I recall about 2003, the top Air Force general made a statement, this was when we were in Iraq with the criminal invasion of Bush and Cheney. He said a very close paraphrase. If we can't protect the United States of America with $300 billion, we better get a new set of generals. Okay, let's say it's now 500 billion in inflation, etc. Well, the military budget now, give or take, is about a trillion dollars. And what you're saying is you cut that budget in half and you can rebuild America. Why don't you elaborate on that?

[Ben Cohen]

Absolutely. It's amazing how much a billion dollars will buy once you take it out of the Pentagon. It doesn't buy that much in terms of F35s or aircraft carrier, but once you take it out of The Pentagon, for $20 billion a year, we could fully fund all of our public schools. For 10 billion a year, we could eliminate homelessness. It's kind of amazing. I mean, you know, in terms of alternative energy, I think again, it's like 20 or 40 billion a year. And you could have solar roofs on a million more houses every year. And you know, and in terms of people around the world that are starving, you know, we always hear, well, world hunger, yeah, we'd love to eliminate world hunger, but it's impossible. For 40 billion a year you can eliminate world hunger in a way that helps people to become food self sufficient so that in 10 years you don't have to keep on giving them money. They can grow their own food. And, and then you get into the issue of being able to have a house that you can afford. I mean, the government plays a big role in making housing affordable. And they can do it if they choose to use our money for that.

[Ralph Nader]

Purpose, return our taxes to the people, like for daycare, maternal leave, paid family, sick leave. That's why there's less opposition to taxation in Western Europe, is because they get it back in the form of universal health care and all kinds of other benefits that we don't have, including ones I just mentioned. Let's turn to another subject, which is the decline in resistance in recent years to the bloated military budget. As the budget ran out of control, with the big corporations running the show and putting their own people inside the Pentagon, the resistance got less and less There used to be a group in the 1970s and 80s called center for Defense Information. It was run by a top retired general and a top retired admiral, the former head of the Pacific Fleet. And they had a program on public radio, a weekly program. So why don't you resurrect that and contact NPR and say, hey, how about a program? You have a military analyst that talk about war and empire. What about talking about waging peace, generating peace negotiations before and during conflicts around the world, and establishing treaties that control the arms race, which are now wobbly or being ignored or not being renewed between Russia and the United States as we speak. Give me your reaction to all that.

[Ben Cohen]

I was a huge fan and supporter of the center for Defense Information. I met Jean Larocque, the admiral who started it. I became quite friendly with Jack Shanahan, another admiral who ended up running the place. And much of what I've learned about the Pentagon and the way the military is run, I learned from those shows. I bought the videos, I have the VHS tapes. And so, because of several different reasons, the center for Defense Information has essentially ceased to exist. I mean, it's a shadow of its former self. But to me, the key benefit of the center for Defense Information is what you had was retired high level Pentagon officers who could speak with credibility on these issues. I mean, a lot of this stuff is just common sense. Nuclear weapons being the easiest one to understand, that if it's about deterrence, you don't need to be able to blow up the entire world several times. But when you get into some of the more complexities, I mean, when you have the current generals, the members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff standing up there with their uniforms and their medals and stuff, you need some other credible person with the experience to support what you're saying. And that's what the center for Defense Information was doing recently. Well, a few years ago, I helped to found the Eisenhower Media Network, which is a home for retired high to mid level military officers who disagree with the direction that the country is going, disagree with Pentagon policies, and we're trying to get them into the media. It's a little harder to get them into the media because the media tends to use these retired generals that are on the payroll of military contractors. And you think that what you're hearing is an impartial view from a retired general, but what you're getting is a spokesperson for war profiteers.

[Ralph Nader]

Well, one of the strongest arguments you have is this gigantic military budget which is now run by, yes, people to Donald Trump. Nobody's going to push back on Trump the way the did in the first term of Trump. In the Pentagon, people like Secretary of Defense Mathis and Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley and others is this budget is in violation of federal law. Starting in 1992, the Congress required all departments and agencies in the executive branch to provide an audited budget every year to the accounting review arm of Congress called the gao. Every other department has complied except the Pentagon. Now, they admit that they're in violation, but they say it's so complex it's going to cost billions of dollars for outside accounting firms and several years to audit the sprawling worldwide operation, this empire with hundreds of military bases with inventory all over the place that is unaccountable for. And therefore they reorder the inventory that they have but they can't locate. That was true of the Air Force, for example, and they are in violation. Every Secretary of Defense, except the current one, has admitted it. And they said, we'll get it done in four or five years. Well, they never did you make a big argument that. I would guess if there's a poll of the American people and said you think the Pentagon budget should be audible, you probably break 95%.

[Ben Cohen]

Yep, yep. I think that's exactly right. I mean, I remember, I think it was on a Center for Defense Information video where they had the footage of Rumsfeld testifying before Congress. And Congress is saying, hey, man, you know, the Pentagon budget can't be audited. And he's saying, oh, yeah, I'm really, really, really sorry. It's a big job. We're going to have it done in, like you said, four years. And that was sometime in the 1990s.

[Ralph Nader]

Well, when you don't have an audited budget or it isn't even auditable, according to the gao, that is, they don't even have the figures that could make it an audited budget for the Marines, Navy, air force, army, etc. When you don't have an audit budget and you have a greedy, demanding corporate contractors all over the Pentagon. More, more, more. Forget about our delays, our defective weapons, and recontracting and upping the price like the F35 Boondogo, you have a lot of waste and corruption, but you also have a lot of black budget, illegal uses of Pentagon money. And that's very mischievous around the world. Overthrowing regimes, messing around on people's backyards gets the U.S. in trouble. That's why we have what Trump calls endless wars, which he's having trouble ending if indeed he wants to he's starting more of them. Yeah, that seems to be the recent events here. Let's go to another technique you developed that I must have given out all over the country. It's called the Priorities Pen. What is the Priorities Pen? Which is a great discussion starter. And you've updated it.

[Ben Cohen]

That's correct. It's updated to the current horror. It's a banner pen. So it's a pen that has a banner that pulls out of the barrel, which is quite unusual. People get quite a kick out of it. And on one side is a bar chart that shows how much the Pentagon spends versus how much other countries spend on their militaries. And essentially what it shows is that The Pentagon spends 300% more than the next highest spending country, which is China. And, you know, and in terms of Russia, I think it's spending probably eight times more than Russia. And in terms of Iran, I mean, Iran, you know, we're spending, like you said, about a trillion. I think Iran is spending under 10 billion. So it shows the disproportionality. And, you know, if the idea is to defend ourselves from what they call possible adversaries, I personally don't believe that those countries are really trying to invade.

[Ralph Nader]

The U.S. i've seen the effect of this pen. I've held it up before large audiences. We even auctioned it off to raise money for our campaigns. People love the pen. It's so graphic and it shows the abysmal failure of the Congress and the lack of resistance by the citizenry. And now I want you to appeal to our listeners. What would you like our listeners to do?

[Ben Cohen]

Go to Upinarms Life and put your email in so that we can keep in touch. And I think that legislators are affected by letters to the editor in your hometown paper. They're affected by phone calls. They're not affected at all by clicking and let them know what you think. We believe that we need to get the public to understand what's going on in order for Congress to finally make some changes. And of course, we need to elect some legislators that are not married to the military industrial complex, that are not being funded by the military industrial complex.

[Ralph Nader]

Let's go to Steve.

[Steve Scrovan]

Ben. A few years ago, we had the journalist Alexander Coburn on the show who wrote a book called the Spoils of War. And one of his arguments about the bloated military budget had not anything really to do with how it drains domestic priorities, but how all this spending actually weakens the military itself. And I thought if you could make that case, then you could get the more hawkish element of the military industrial complex on your side by saying, actually, this bloat actually weakens, are fighting for us. Has that occurred to you as an angle?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, it's definitely an angle. When you're in a campaign and you're trying to communicate a message, you know, you have to kind of simplify and you have to, you know, there's so many things to communicate, and you have to focus on just a very small number. But the point that Coburn was making is that that half the money in the Pentagon budget goes to acquiring weapons from weapons manufacturers. And the new weapons that they want to use to replace the old weapons are always way more expensive than the old weapons. So you end up getting less weapons for the same amount of money. And then what happens is that the time schedule is way behind. They never hit the dates when they're supposed to have these weapons delivered. So then what happens is that they need to extend the lifespan of the existing weapons, and you end up spending more money and having a weaker Pentagon.

[Ralph Nader]

I think also what Steve is implying is that when you have more money than is needed, you. You tend to invite corruption, cost overruns, machinery that doesn't work. And I would advise that you look into why the GAO and the Pentagon auditors are being asked to do fewer audits of the military budget. Because there's almost a direct correlation between throwing money at a government program, especially at that scale, and corruption. And corruption is understandable to everybody. It's the number one political issue all over the world when the pollsters pull and corruption and its exposure will help your group up in arms immeasurably. So you want to ask your members of Congress why you're not asking the GAO to conduct as many investigations of the military budget as it used to, and why Donald Trump wants to cut the GAO budget, which is not under its jurisdictions under Congress, because he doesn't want any monitors of what they're doing there. And you can bet almost for sure that there's going to be more corruption under the Trump regime and Secretary of Defense Hexest than in previous administrations, just because more money and more reckless jingoism and more approval of whatever the Lockheed Martin matrix wants to do is prevailing now in the Pentagon.

[Ben Cohen]

Every major defense contractor has been prosecuted for fraud. Mostly they settle out of court. And in addition to reducing the reports from gao, they've already decimated, I think, as part of doge, the internal Pentagon Office of Testing and Evaluation. So they don't want to know if stuff doesn't work. Right. You know, I mean, they talk about, quote, unquote, acquisition reform for military hardware. And what they mean is we're going to get rid of all of the oversight. We're going to get rid of making sure that you're delivering the right stuff, that your stuff works. So that's, that's what they're about.

[Ralph Nader]

We're talking with Ben Cohen, one of the founders of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream, and of course, one of the founders of the group we're talking about up in Arms. The one thing the press will jump on is corruption, and there's going to be more of it. So the more that can be stimulated in terms of sunlight and oversight by Congress and whistleblowing from Pentagon insiders, the more trouble for this bloated military budget and the Trump regime. David.

[Ben Cohen]

Ben.

[Arwa Mahdawi]

Excessive military spending seems to be a political problem as well. So this, this is a serious question because it addresses how hard I think, it is for the left to control the narrative. Bernie Sanders, Zoran Mamdani, he's going to be the next mayor of New York. AOC Omar Fateh is going to be the next mayor of Minneapolis. These are all Democratic socialists who believe in a mixed economy with both public and private ownership. So if the Democratic Socialists were to take over the Democratic Party and our government begins implementing parts of their agenda, what would that mean for you? You're a friend of Bernie Sanders. Is he threatening to ship you off to a reeducation camp, Subjecting you to struggle sessions, accusing you of being a class enemy? Because we don't control the narrative? That's what a lot of people think. So what happens to you if Bernie and AOC and Zoran Mamdani control the Democratic Party?

[Ben Cohen]

I think I end up living in a much kinder, compassionate world where my kid, my grandkid, is going to a public school that's more well equipped, where my child can afford a decent place to live, and where they can afford to childcare. I mean, a country that is putting its money where its mouth is in terms of caring about its people. I mean, we are the richest country in the history of the world. The idea that we're not able to provide for our people, as well as a bunch of other countries that are a lot poorer than us, is illogical.

[Ralph Nader]

Here's an illustration of what you mean. The Republicans in Congress just rescinded $8 billion with a B that was already appropriated for the Agency for International Development. Aid for AIDS medicines, clean water, food supplements for people. And it costs less than $1,000 to save a life over there, simply because the precipice of dying results on a prescription or clean water doesn't give babies dysentery. So they got rid of $8 billion, which Trump quote about saving, and it's going to kill over the next few years. Eight million people, mostly children and women in these poor countries. Eight million people. Now, at the same time, Trump added $150 billion to the military budget. $150 billion and then 44 billion more to deport anybody who he doesn't like, who's a recent immigrant, whether undocumented or not, to countries around the world paid for by the US Taxpayer. So their listeners is a perfect example what Ben is talking about. The priorities are the priorities of an official death code.

[Hannah Feldman]

Hannah, my question is about what could be argued is sort of the myth of a balanced budget. Isn't it a red herring at this point to say that if we stop spending money on the military, we'll have all this money free to do good things domestically? It's malicious. They know people are aware that they're killing people with the way they're spending money. And isn't it a little Pollyanna ish at this point to say, oh, if we just inform people that things will change, what would you say to that?

[Ben Cohen]

Well, I think people need to understand the concept of economic violence, which is that you harm and hurt people by decisions to spend money on weapons, and that means that you're not spending them on the things that people need, like health care. So when you talk about the balanced budget, I mean, for one half of the debt that we have has been driven by wars. We continue to, you know, have more wars that we don't pay for in real time, that we go to war based on borrowed money that our kids and our grandkids are supposed to pay off. So there's this idea that, economically speaking, you can invest money in things that help produce a more educated workforce, a healthier population, and those are investments. They pay off. You end up having value that's worth more than what you invested. But in terms of spending money on the Pentagon, that's not an investment. That's spending, and that's money that you never get back. I mean, it kind of amazes me every year, that Pentagon budget. I don't get it. You know, I mean, we've got all these weapons. How come you need to keep on spending the same amount every year? I mean, it's kind of like you have a car and you get a new car every year and keep the old one.

[Hannah Feldman]

I think it's, you know, they don't actually need it. I think you're trying to make sense of something. There's a reason your brain can't make sense of it because it's, there's no actual valid justification. They're just greedy liars.

[Ralph Nader]

Well, there are people in this country are paying more than an economic price. They're not getting protection for the air, water and food. Safety, safety. All kinds of disclosures recently about the forever chemicals that are in the environment, in people's bodies. In the chemical industry. There's microplastics. Now more reports on that. And what are the Trump military industrial complex doing? They're cutting all these budgets that are designed to alert, warn, protect, save lives and health in the various federal agencies and bloating the military, national security and deportation budgets beyond the wildest avarice of their managers. I mean, the Democrats, Republicans in Congress are giving the generals more money than they've asked for. That's how bad it is. So the focus on Congress. Ben Cohen, summon them back. You got 535 members. They'll put their shoes on every morning the way we do. They have enormous amounts of our power that they can turn to our benefit instead of adversely against our interests. We have to conclude. But I want to ask you, is there anything you want to say to our listeners that we haven't covered and give the website.

[Ben Cohen]

Once again, the website is upinarms life. And you know, I just kind of go back to the moral issue of our time, which is Gaza. Two thirds of the American people don't support continuing to arm Israel. And we need to make our politicians pay the price for continuing to arm Israel. And we need to start, I mean, we have a midterm election coming up. If, if your guy voted to continue to essentially facilitate the genocide, vote him out.

[Ralph Nader]

I'm glad you raised this. You've been very courageous on this, including Ben and Jerry's, and we applaud you and Jerry immensely for your work over the decades. Just showing that you can run a business, make a profit and do a lot of good for the world. Thank you very much, Ben Cohen.

[Ben Cohen]

Well, thank you, Ralph. You've been doing amazing stuff for the world. I'm just totally honored to be on your show. And what can I say? You're my hero, baby.

[Ralph Nader]

Well, what you can say is we're all going to follow through on these suggestions.

[Ben Cohen]

All right? Sounds good to me.

[Ralph Nader]

Thank you, Ben. Stay in touch.

[Ben Cohen]

All right, take care, Ralph.

[Steve Scrovan]

We've been speaking with Ben Cohen. We will link to his [e-mail] up next, we continue our chronicle of the vast undercount in the ongoing genocide in Gaza with journalist AWA Madawi. But first, let's check in with our corporate crime reporter, Russell Mulcaiber.

[Russell Mokhiber]

From the National Press building in Washington, D.C. this is your corporate crime reporter Morning minute for Friday, August 22, 2025. I'm Russell Mulcaiber. Jerry Spence, one of the nation's top trial lawyers, died last week at his home in Montecito, California. He was 96. That's according to an obituary in the New York Times. Spence often boasted that he had never lost a criminal case with a jury trial as either a defense lawyer or a prosecutor and that he had not lost a civil case since 1969. According to the Times, that was not actually true, but it was not far off. He was known to lose now and then, and several of his notable civil verdicts were overturned on appeal. But he seemed unbeatable not only to courtroom foes, but also to lawyers who attended his seminars and to Americans who read his best selling books and tuned in to his television programs and network commentaries. For the corporate crime Reporter, I'm Russell Mulcyber.

[Steve Scrovan]

Thank you, Russell. Welcome back to the Ralph Nader Radio Hour. I'm Steve Scrovan along with David Feldman, Hannah and Ralph. Our next guest asked the question, when will we finally admit the Gaza death toll is higher than we've been told?

[Arwa Mahdawi]

David AWA Madawi is a columnist for the Guardian and author of Strong Female Lead Lessons from Women in Power. Welcome to the Ralph Nader Radio Hour. Ara Madawi.

[Host/Announcer]

Thanks for having me.

[Ralph Nader]

Welcome indeed. Ara, you wrote a column in the Guardian. You're a regular columnist in the Guardian. I on August 8, 2025, quote, it's far more likely the real death toll is in the hundreds of thousands. And by quote, real death toll, quote, I mean direct deaths from military campaigns and indirect deaths due to the famine created by Israel's siege on Gaza, as well as deaths from preventable illness or medical conditions that couldn't be treated due to Israelis blockade on medical supplies and destruction of hospitals. It also means bodies that are rotting under the rubble and may never be formally identified, end quote. I want to ask you as a member of the journalistic profession, how can you explain the indifference of newspapers like the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Associated Press. They have reporters over there who've been doing their best because they're excluded from Gaza, out of Jerusalem and other areas, doing their best to describe the mass murder, the slaughter, the deaths by contaminated water, no food, no medicine, no electricity, no shelter, no fuel for hospitals, for example. It's all being printed, including amazing graphics, for example, that the New York Times has printed showing the devastation in Gaza from the air. And yet you can't get them to address the vast undercount of deaths and serious injuries in Gaza. And I've talked to many of these reporters, and Karen DeYoung, who is the foreign affairs editor of the Washington Post, told me that all they have to go with is the Hamas figure and they don't have anything to cling to. Well, we've had an extensive interview with Dr. Frozen Sidwa that shows that there are great opportunities for them to do investigative work and come up with more realistic estimates. How do you characterize your peers here who are not willing to put in print what you have put in print in the Guardian?

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah, I mean, as journalists, we're supposed to. I mean, I'm an opinion writer, but as journalists, you're always supposed to report facts. And the fact is we have absolutely no idea how many people are dead in the Gaza Strip. But there are plenty of studies in which I reference in the article. One Lancet peer reviewed study, one letter to the Lancet by a highly respected scientist, one empirical study by David Spaggott, which show that the death count is a lot higher. So I truly believe that unless you're saying the official figure from the Ministry of health is around 60,000, but studies show it is probably much higher, then that's just journalistic malpractice. I mean, you're just not looking at one set of facts. I mean, again, it goes back to like the first stage of genocide. And I think the consensus now is this is genocide. The first stage of genocide is dehumanization. And Palestinians have been dehumanized in the media for decades. In America, you very rarely see the Palestinian point of view. And Palestinians are just always cast as unreliable liars. You'll remember the very first days of this genocide, Joe Biden saying, we can't really trust the Palestinian numbers. We don't know if the Palestinians are lying. And there's this thread in American political at the top of the government, top of media companies that they just don't trust what Palestinians say, while any rumor or anything that Israelis say that comes from the Israeli government is immediately published as Israel says. This you'll remember again after October 7th, this rumor, completely unfounded, that 40 beheaded babies were killed. Two CNN reporters said this clearly inflammatory lie on air without fact checking it. That would absolutely never happen with anything from that Palestinian said. So I think there's just this instinct to believe that Palestinians are lying and Israelis are telling the truth. And it also goes back to what fir was saying. This isn't just Israel's war, this is America's war as well. And this desire to see America as the good guys, the good guys, the Palestinians are the bad guys, and to kind of have this like black and white narrative where obviously we're the good guys, you know, and so if the Palestinian narrative casts doubt on that, then it must be wrong. But yeah, it's very, it's very frustrating. And, and I think that's why a lot of Arab are leaving the media and feeling like a lot of our colleagues in the Western media don't really seem to think of us as, as human beings.

[Ralph Nader]

What I'm inferring from my many conversations with literally dozens of reporters on this subject as they and their editors are afraid to go beyond the Hamas figures because of the reaction, the denunciation by the domestic lobby, by the Trumpsters, by members of Congress who want to reduce Gaza to rubble, like Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas and Lindsey Graham from South Carolina. So they're very wary of the counter pressure that can come on to their newspaper and who knows what else can occur, the shrinking of advertising boycotts. So it's a matter of fear here rather than, I think, insensitivity. And so I want to ask you, what was the reaction to your column?

[Host/Announcer]

Well, I imagine there were probably a lot of complaints, but the reader said it only forwards them to me when there's like a factual error. But the pressure is immense. I've had to change articles thanks to pressure campaigns from pro Israel groups because of like a technicality about speaking about the ICJ ruling last year. There is just this big, big pressure campaign to water down coverage of Gaza. But, you know, and so I do understand the fear, but I also think that a lot of editors are not looking at the big picture because if you look at young people now, they mainly get their news from social media. And that's because when they open the page of the New York Times and I'm, you know, I write for the Guardian and I think the Guardian is doing a, a much better job than a lot of the US Media. If you look at the New York Times, especially in the early days, is completely different reality from what you're seeing on social media. So if you're a young person, like, you're like, how this legacy media is really not reflecting what I'm seeing on social media. Like, I don't trust it. I think that so that a lot of these legacy publications are not understanding that they're going to lose a lot of young readers who are getting their news from social media because they're just not trusting what they're reading in these papers or they're just not seeing all the points of views that they want to see.

[Ralph Nader]

I think the pro Netanyahu cry know that if the true casualty figure of deaths in Gaza is publicized around the world, which is at least over 500,000, then the following comparisons can be made. Out of this tiny strip in Gaza, with only 2.3 million people before October 7, more have been killed than all US soldiers killed in World War II in the European and Pacific theaters. Twice as many Palestinians have been killed than the number of fatalities from Hiroshima, Nagasaki in Dresden during World War II. And a professor emeritus, Paul Rogers from the University of Bradford in the United Kingdom, who's written numerous books on the military weapon devastation, says as of April, he believes that the amount of tonnage dropped on this tiny strip, the geographical size of Philadelphia, is the equivalent. Listen to this quote. Is about the equivalent of six Hiroshimas period bombs. Well, the single Hiroshima bomb killed about 130,000 people. So what would you suggest, readers of newspapers and listeners to NPR and viewers of television, what do you suggest they do about this?

[Host/Announcer]

Well, I always suggest that people write to the media outlets and say that they want to see more Palestinian narratives. They want the media outlets to voice their concern that foreign reporters are not being let in, that more aid workers are not being let in, that pictures are not coming out. I think, as you were saying, you don't have to be a genius or a scientist to understand that if you're dropping like six nuclear bombs on a tiny enclave, there are going to be a lot more people dead than 60,000 people. There are very few pictures coming out of the scale of this destruction in Gaza. But when you see the ones that do come out, it is very, very obvious that there are more people than 60,000 people dead. But there seems to be this lack of curiosity with some of my peers, like, why aren't they asking, why aren't we seeing more pictures? There should be nonstop outrage that this press freedom is being stifled like this and so many Palestinian journalists are being slaughtered.

[Ralph Nader]

The conundrum here we're talking with the Guardian columnist Arwa Mahdawi. The conundrum Here, Arwa, is that to be fair, The New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal have published some pretty devastating reports from their reporters in that area. They put some devastating features on what's going on there, but it doesn't translate into editorial denunciation by these papers and it doesn't translate into taking the next step and doing what they would do in other conflicts around the world where there isn't so much prejudice and domestic pressure. And find out what the death toll is. They estimated death toll in Rwanda that they didn't have people on the ground and in other conflicts, as I've noted repeatedly. So there's this gap between what the reporters are sending and what the lack of pursuit of the true death and serious injury toll, which changed the whole dynamics of the diplomatic, political and civic pressures around the world. When you have a real death count, in addition to respecting the Palestinian dead, I mean, there's almost no explanation to this beyond gross fear, intimidation and some racism. What do you say?

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah, I mean, I think as you say, every outlet has put out some really great investigative reporting, some great features. Every but a lot of the time it's undercut by like insidious framing in the reporting. So for example, the New York Times will often, and not just the New York Times, a lot of people will talk about the Hamas run ministry to kind of push the idea you cannot trust them because it's Hamas. Also, the New York Times quite a few times has used the phrases like the Hamas death toll does not distinguish between civilians and combatants. And it doesn't go on to explain what constitutes a combatant because Israel will often just say any male over the age of 16 is a combatant. So you know, it will cast doubt in these insidious ways. So there is this gap between like some of these great features that come out and the sort of supposedly objective reporting which has this sort of insidious slant to it. And there is the New York Times when it some of the most powerful writing I think comes from the doctors who are really the people on the ground and people that we, you know, instinctively trust and people with no agenda other than helping people. And when the New York Times put out an op ed and it had to go into the opinion section, even though this is fact from multiple doctors showing that Israeli soldiers have been shooting children in the head, there was an enormous outcry about it. It got so many complaints, the New York Times had to put out a statement saying it stands by is journalism. So I mean, again, it goes back to this pressure that you were talking about that there is this massive desire to believe that the US And Israel are the good guys. And even when you look at all of the evidence, even when you look at all of the CT scans of kids being shot in the head, that this is somehow being made up, that this is Hamas propaganda. And the way that people talk about Hamas propaganda, you'd think that Hamas has like a Hollywood style production suite in the ruins of Gaza. Because, I mean, this is just obviously nonsense. You know, Gaza is in ruins, not. They're not out there filming. People are literally saying, and it's the same thing that Russians were saying about Ukraine, that these are child actors. I mean, it is just, it is unbelievable, this desire to just pretend that nothing that is happening is true and that you shouldn't believe your own eyes.

[Ralph Nader]

Of course, they don't pay attention to how this all happened. So whether it's Netanyahu's colossal blunder, which he's taken huge advantage of, enlisted the unconditional support of the US which is violating six federal statutes by sending weapons to countries, violating human rights, et cetera, the depressed forgotten about that, why do you think the press has gone along with this?

[Host/Announcer]

Well, I think in general, a lot of context is lost. And beyond what you're talking about, I think there's also this desire to say this all started in October 7, when a lot of people still have no idea what was going on in Gaza years before and what life was like in Gaza years before. So again, this is like a failing of the media that constantly frustrates me is putting forward the narrative that this all started on October 7th and there have been things written about how Hamas was actually useful to him because they're not at all sympathetic and they make Israel look, you know, much better. And so I think that there is some journalism there. But again, it goes back to the framing in reporting where it all says, you know, this started on October 7th and all of this, everything that's happening is the Palestinians fault. And everything started with the Palestinians. Nothing should be blamed on Israel.

[Ralph Nader]

The resistance of Israel is growing. Reservists are starting to speak out. Newspapers and television stations are starting to report because a lot of established military, national security people in Israel are beginning to go after Netanyahu more effectively. So I noticed one thing in your column that I have not read about. When you said the IVF center in Gaza was destroyed by Israel, and you wonder whether it wasn't targeted because as the United nations report says, as part of an effort to destroy, quote, in part the reproductive capacity of Palestinians in Gaza as a group. End quote. From the UN report. Could you tell us a little more about that?

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah. I mean, again, this is very interesting that, you know, a lot of the Christian Zionists who are very pro life seem to have absolutely no interest in the fact that they an IVF center was targeted. Embryos are Hamas now apparently then just absolutely devastating for a lot of families who will, you know, that was their last chance to have a child. And as Faroese was saying, family is so important to Palestinians. And the IDF has never said why it targeted an IVF center. So as that UN report says, the IDF's targeting of the IVF center, of maternal health, of the food supply, it all looks a lot like it's trying to prevent future births. So when we're looking at deaths, we're not just talking about like people who have been killed now. We're also talking about what is the effect in the future of this genocide? What is the effect on future births? Because we've got a whole generation of kids who are going to suffer lifelong if they get out of this life, they're going to suffer lifelong consequences from childhood malnutrition. That's not something that you can just fix when you start an eating normally. Again, that's like lifelong consequences. You know, you've got a lot of women whose fertility might have been destroyed from, you know, not eating for so long. And again, this is why there is a consensus amongst genocide scholars that this is genocide, because it's not. It's about destroying a group as a whole and going back to the numbers again, this is why it's important to get to the real death toll, because for the legal definition of genocide, numbers don't matter. You can kill one person and it could still be considered genocide. For moral purposes, numbers don't matter. But so many people use that 60,000 figure to say 60,000. Only 60,000 in two years. It's not genocide. Bret Stephens used that argument in his New York Times op ed. So it is really important that we do get to a more accurate figure because so many people are using it, the 60,000 number, to minimize the atrocities and to say that this isn't genocide.

[Ralph Nader]

We've been talking with Aroua Mahdawi, the columnist for the Guardian. We're going to send your column around to have it reach even more people. It was called When Will We Finally Admit the Gaza Death Tolls Higher Than We've Been Told. And it was published on August 8, 2025. Let's have a few quick questions from Hannah, if you don't mind.

[Hannah Feldman]

Arwa, my question is, you talked about some of the failures of mainstream media and professional journalism. I would imagine that citizen journalists and data journalists, projects like Bellingcat, are probably gathering information that traditional journalists aren't able to access, go in and access on the ground. Could you speak to any projects like that that might shed some light on the real figures?

[Host/Announcer]

Well, I think it's very, very difficult for anyone to get information from Gaza. But I mean, Dropsite News has been doing a lot of great work and I think just sharing a lot of the, you know, through social media. We just seen a lot of stories that don't get reported in press, like people who have died unnecessarily because they don't have insulin and they have diabetes. You know, when you start to see stories like that, then you start to get a better understanding of the actual death toll. But again, yeah, I think that a lot of the best work that is being done in this regard is from more independent smaller outlets like Job Site News.

[Ralph Nader]

Well, we're out of time. We're talking with Guardian columnist Ottawa Mahdawi. And before we conclude Ottawa, is there anything else you want to say to our listeners who are very serious listeners and publicly spirited?

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah, I would really encourage everybody to write whatever media outlet you get your news from and urge them to look more into these stories. I mean, reader pressure. It does work. And it is shameful how little of the Palestinian narrative is still shown in mainstream media. There was one study published in the Nation a while back which showed that US cable TV shows have basically had one Palestinian voice for every like 20 Israeli voices. That statistics wrong, but it's just that the amount of Israeli voices versus Palestinian voices is immense. So really just write to your media outlets. It may seem like it won't make a difference, but enough people do it then it really will.

[Ralph Nader]

And call your local NPR station over a year ago they did have a report on the undercount by their reporter in the region, but they haven't updated it.

[Host/Announcer]

When you write, your media outlets do focus on specific asks, like when you talk about the death toll, please can you mention that studies have shown that it is probably much higher, you know, when you so really asking them for specific things because I think that's the way you change things slowly.

[Ralph Nader]

Well, as you point out, all foreign journalists, including Israeli journalists, are banned by Netanyahu from going into the Gaza Strip to document even further the horror, the Palestinian holocaust. What's being done with us tax dollars and the full support of Trump and the Republicans in Congress and some Democrats as well. We've been talking with Arwa Mahdawi, the columnist for the Guardian. Thank you very much, Ottawa.

[Host/Announcer]

Thank you.

[Steve Scrovan]

We've been speaking to Arwa Mehdawi. We will link to her work at Ralph Nader Radio Hour. I want to thank our guests again, Ben Cohen and Aramidawi. For those of you listening on the radio, that's our show. For you podcast listeners, stay tuned for some bonus material we call the Wrap up featuring Francesco Desantis with a new version of in case you haven't heard, a transcript of this program will appear on the Ralph Nader Radio Hour substack site soon after the episode is posted.

[Arwa Mahdawi]

Subscribe to us on our Ralph Nader Radio Hour YouTube channel and for Ralph's weekly column. It's [e-mail] for more from Russell Mokhyber, it's at corporatecrimereporter.com the American Museum of.

[Steve Scrovan]

Tort Law has gone virtual. You can visit tortmuseum.org to explore the exhibits, take a virtual tour and learn about iconic tort cases from history.

[Arwa Mahdawi]

To order your copy of the Capitol Hill Citizen Democracy Dies in Broad Daylight. It's@capitol hillcitizen.com and remember to continue the.

[Steve Scrovan]

Conversation after each program, you can go to the comments section@ralphnader radio hour.com and post a comment or question on this week's episode.

[Arwa Mahdawi]

The producers of the Ralph Nader Radio Hour are Jimmy Lee Wirt, Hannah Feldman and Matthew Marin. Our executive producer is Alan Minsky.

[Steve Scrovan]

Our theme music, Stand Up, Rise up, was written and performed by Kemp Harris. Our proofreader is Elizabeth Solomon.

[Arwa Mahdawi]

Join us next week on the Ralph Nader Radio Hour. Thank you, Ralph.

[Ralph Nader]

Thank you. Everybody up. You ought to step up, Rise up, Arise up. I know you want to rise up, Stand up. I think that you should step up Rise up. Don't laugh. The system pulls you down.

[John Crumshow]

This is John Crumshow with a special Politics or Pedagogy education report on kpfk. You hear more than a sound bite. That's education. That's our mission. Please make Your contribution at 818-985-5735 or pledge [e-mail] I'm on the line with Lorraine Evanoff. She is an author who has worked in the mystery field for a number of years. Welcome to Politics or Pedagogy.

[Hannah Feldman]

Thank you.

[John Crumshow]

Glad to talk with you about your work because an author's work is really never done. Tell us about how you got started and what your process is.

[Host/Announcer]

Oh, thanks, John.

[Hannah Feldman]

I was, believe it or not, originally an accounting major in college, and I was putting myself through college. I do think an author's work is never done, but that's because we can't help ourselves. We just have to write.

[Host/Announcer]

I get really disciplined when I'm writing the novel.

[Hannah Feldman]

I am a pantser, as you know.