Ralph Nader Hour — October 12, 2025:
Civic Restaurants, Corporate Complicity & Democracy at Risk
Episode Overview
This episode of the Ralph Nader Radio Hour focuses on the convergence of civic activism and business, both small and large, in a time of intense democratic crisis in America. The first half features a lively discussion with Andy Shalal, the activist, artist, and founder of Busboys and Poets—a DC-based restaurant and cultural hub. Shalal shares the inspiring story behind his restaurant, its role in political organizing, and his new book, A Seat at the Table: The Making of Busboys and Poets. The second half features Bennett Freeman, a corporate accountability expert, exploring why big business remains largely silent—or even complicit—in the face of increasingly anti-democratic actions by the Trump administration. The episode also includes the “Corporate Crime Reporter” segment.
Note: Ad, fundraising, intro, and outro sections are omitted below.
1. Andy Shalal: Food, Activism, and Creating Democratic Spaces
(Starts at 05:14)
The Immigrant Story and Founding of Busboys and Poets
- Andy Shalal recalls immigrating from Iraq at age 11 and how his father, originally a diplomat and literature PhD, entered the restaurant business by happenstance after being urged to embrace “American business” by a friend ([06:08]).
- Family worked together in the restaurant, learning from scratch.
- Shalal’s academic aspirations (his parents wanted a doctor/engineer in the family) gave way to a love for the restaurant business rooted in the power of food to “bring people together” and foster conversation ([08:58]).
Quote ([08:58], Andy Shalal):
"It wasn’t the business that I fell in love with. It was the power of food. The power of food to convene people, bring them to the table. And once you're there, once there are people are sitting, breaking bread together, opportunities take shape, and all kinds of things can happen."
Restaurants as Civic Spaces & Political Hubs
- Shalal describes intentionally designing Busboys and Poets as a “democratic hub”:
- A bookstore for knowledge and discovery
- A stage for speakers and performances
- Communal tables to foster conversation ([11:59])
- Encourages staff voices and pays above industry rates.
- Reflects on speaking out against the Iraq War as an Iraqi-American, facing fear and hostility, but determined to encourage civic engagement and discourse ([11:59]).
Quote ([11:59], Andy Shalal):
"Voting is the last thing you need to do. It's not the most important by far… I really started to think about restaurants as Democratic hubs, as places where people come together and actually learn something about their responsibilities, their civic duties."
Counter-Hegemonic Model of Business
- Ralph Nader highlights how Shalal disproves the longstanding advice that retailers should “keep your mouth shut” about politics.
- Shalal credits authenticity and quality for his business’s resilience, drawing in patrons across the political spectrum.
([15:57]–[16:27])
Quote ([16:27], Andy Shalal):
"I think people look for authenticity. They may not agree with you, but they respect you and they respect your opinion. I think we have a much, much bigger tolerance for that in this country than people are led to believe."
Langston Hughes, the Name, and the Art
- The restaurant is named after poet Langston Hughes, who worked as a busboy and was “discovered” by poet Vachel Lindsay.
([18:25]–[20:37]) - Art in the restaurant reflects social justice themes and honors the Harlem Renaissance legacy.
Bearing Witness to War, Activism, and the Power of Community
- Shalal reads a poignant passage from his book about the pain of seeing his ancestral land destroyed and the American amnesia surrounding Iraq ([20:37]).
- Activism—especially on issues like Gaza and Palestine—is described as an “antidote to depression,” encouraging people to take action, find community, and find meaning in struggle ([22:46]).
Quote ([22:46], Andy Shalal):
"Activism is the best antidote to depression… The only way you can really make sense of it… is to continue to fight for a better world and not just kind of accept it."
Memorable Moments: Famous Visitors, the Peace Ball, and Joy in Activism
- Steve Scrovan asks for stories. Shalal recalls the restaurant’s opening during the Iraq war and the sudden influx of activist icons—Jane Fonda, Susan Sarandon, Amy Goodman, Cornel West, Cindy Sheehan, among others—gathering in the cafe ([26:17]).
- Recalls “peace balls” as alternative inaugural events, vibrant gatherings of the social justice movement, reinforcing that joy and community are vital to sustaining activism ([30:04]–[32:12]).
Quote ([30:16], Andy Shalal):
"One of the things that I find is necessary for movements to be sustained is to have joy. You’ve got to have opportunities for joy… Because a lot of times the work we do isn’t fun. It's soul-sucking work, you know, and you need to have those opportunities to be able to refuel and reenergize."
2. Corporate Crime Reporter Segment
(32:49)
- Russell Mokiber reports on academic research showing that corporations with deferred or non-prosecution agreements are more likely to reoffend compared to those with plea deals, raising questions about the effectiveness of corporate discipline for misconduct.
3. Bennett Freeman: Why Won’t Big Business Stand Up?
(Starts at 33:58)
The Silence of Corporate America
- Freeman, a former GE executive and global human rights advisor, discusses the striking silence and “obeisance” of big business—especially tech CEOs—in the face of the Trump administration’s attacks on the rule of law.
- He describes a shift from “complacency” to “complicity”:
- Fear of retribution and intimidation (“extortion”) from Trump suppressed public dissent.
- Some past exceptions: former CEOs of American Express and Merck.
([35:56])
Quote ([35:56], Bennett Freeman):
"The silence of corporate America was deafening in the face of what were demonstrable threats leveled by candidate Trump to our rule of law and our constitutional democracy. I think the complacency now has become complicity."
The Pull of Deregulation and Short-term Benefits
- Many corporations are lured by deregulation, tax cuts, and unfettered AI development, sacrificing long-term interests for short-term gains ([35:56]):
- “They’re getting what they want… but they’re overlooking their long-term interest—if anybody in corporate America cares about anything long term anymore.”
- The rule of law is crucial to business stability—but corporate leaders have lost sight of this.
Possibility and Obstacles for Collective Action
- Nader and Freeman note businesses are not just cowed as individuals; even collective bodies like the Business Roundtable (top company CEOs) and trade organizations have avoided taking a stand, due to a lack of consensus and fear of targeted retribution ([39:12]–[40:27]).
- Freeman suggests the only possible jolt might come if “ICE raids” and “National Guard deployments” threaten business operations and public stability, but holds out little hope without extraordinary circumstances.
Quote ([40:27], Bennett Freeman):
"If not safety in numbers, at least a little less risk if all of the Business Roundtable, for example, were to come out... But they're just not doing it."
The Business Roundtable and Lost Civic Duty
- The Business Roundtable, once a rare voice for civic principles, has gone silent since its tepid call for peaceful transfer of power in 2020.
- Freeman recounts his years at GE under Jack Welch, observing the organization’s outsized influence—yet decries its present unwillingness to act, accusing CEOs of being “pulverized by intimidation and threats of retribution.” ([45:09])
Quote ([45:09], Bennett Freeman):
"What will it take? More deployments of troops in more American cities? Violence? Civil unrest? … Those are the kinds of things that could happen that should finally compel the Business Roundtable and the rest of corporate America to wake up and stand up."
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“Restaurants as Democratic Hubs” ([11:59], Andy Shalal)
"I really started to think about restaurants as Democratic hubs, as places where people come together and actually learn something about their responsibilities, their civic duties..." -
On Joy as Fuel for Movements ([30:16], Andy Shalal)
"One of the things that I find is necessary for movements to be sustained is to have joy. You’ve got to have opportunities for joy..." -
On Corporate Silence and Complicity ([35:56], Bennett Freeman):
"I think the complacency now has become complicity in a dramatic, historic Democratic backsliding in the United States with the erosion of rule of law and our constitutional democracy." -
On Business’s Lost Compass ([45:09], Bennett Freeman)
“They [the Business Roundtable] are, it really should be taking some responsibility here, but they aren't … the members remain pulverized by this intimidation and threats of retribution, which are very tangible. They're not imaginary.”
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 05:14 – Andy Shalal’s immigrant journey and restaurant beginnings
- 08:58 – The power of food, Busboys and Poets’ unique model
- 11:59 – Restaurants as democratic spaces and activism post–Iraq War
- 16:27 – On authenticity and political business models
- 18:34 – Langston Hughes and the naming (and art) of Busboys and Poets
- 20:37 – Reading from Shalal’s book on Iraq’s destruction
- 22:46 – Gaza, activism, and the importance of action
- 26:29 – Iconic activist gatherings at Busboys and Poets
- 30:16 – The Peace Ball and sustaining movements through joy
- 32:49 – Corporate Crime Reporter segment
- 33:58 – Bennett Freeman interview: why big business won’t stand up to Trump
- 35:56 – Complacency becomes complicity; deregulation’s lure
- 40:27 – Can collective business action break the silence?
- 45:09 – The Business Roundtable’s history and lost civic mission
Tone & Takeaways
The episode blends a hopeful tone—showcasing resilient, community-based activism—with an urgent warning about corporate complicity in undermining American democracy. Through real stories and sharp analysis, it invites listeners to consider not just voting or consuming, but the true responsibilities of citizenship and the crucial role of authentic, values-driven engagement—whether in a restaurant, at a protest, or in the boardroom.
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