Ralph Nader Radio Hour — September 7, 2025

Main Theme:
A deep dive into the undercounting and erasure of Palestinian casualties in Gaza and the complicity of Western media and government in this process. Palestinian American writer and activist Susan Abulhawa joins Ralph Nader and co-hosts to break down the reality of the “Palestinian Holocaust,” the deliberate destruction of Palestinian life and culture, and the broader political context of ongoing Israeli actions. The conversation ranges from media misrepresentation, obstacles in casualty reporting, and the erasure of Palestinian identity, to a critical reflection on public opinion and activism in the U.S. and Israel.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Introduction: Framing the Context

• (01:01) Ralph Nader introduces the episode’s focus: the ongoing genocide in Gaza, gross underreporting of Palestinian casualties by media and international bodies, and difficulties faced by Palestinians in asserting their right to exist.
• (01:09) Steve Skrovan mentions the reluctance of mainstream media to platform Palestinian voices and the episode’s focus on “the infuriating experience of Palestinians constantly having to justify their right to exist.”

2. The Real Toll: Vast Undercounts of Palestinian Casualties

• (03:00-05:33) Nader and Abulhawa discuss severe underestimates in official Palestinian death counts; estimates that the true toll is between 500,000–600,000, far exceeding the commonly cited figure of 60,000.
• Nader: “In no other conflict have I seen such indifference by the mainstream press to the real death count.” (04:49)
• Abulhawa explains obstacles: destroyed digital infrastructure, paper records obliterated, death of administrators, and Israel’s blocking access to hospitals.
• Only people directly killed by bombs & identified by ID number are counted, excluding those dead under rubble, unidentified remains, those who died for want of medication, or of preventable diseases.
• Quote: “The ability to count and maintain records is compromised...further compromised by the outright murder of hospital administrators and the personnel who are tasked with keeping records.” (05:40 – Susan Abulhawa)

On Who Gets Counted and Who Doesn't

• Death tolls fail to include:

  • Dead under rubble or buried by family without hospital record
  • Unidentified body parts
  • Those dying of untreated chronic diseases or starvation
  • Newborns with no care (approx. 5,000 per month)

• Quote: “So that's already like a fraction of the death toll that we know of. But then you have this vast population of people who have been dying of preventable diseases...” (08:22 – Susan Abulhawa)

• (11:41-13:30) Ralph and Susan reiterate: “At least 500,000 people...the death toll accelerates as starvation, dehydration, and destruction pile up.”

3. Culpability & Complicity: Media, Government, and Western Institutions

• Nader criticizes media for repeatedly printing the official, lowball death count without context or caveats.

  • Quote: “Day after day...New York Times, Washington Post...they have this boilerplate sentence: Over 62,000 people have been killed...You can forgive the readers into saying, well, that's the number, period...It underestimates the kind of urgency that should be confronting this genocide.” (13:30-17:57 – Ralph Nader)

• Media obfuscates by not qualifying figures, echoing Israeli or official statements without scrutiny.

• On the scale of destruction: “...the TNT equivalent that's been dropped on Gaza exceeds six Hiroshima bombs. One Hiroshima bomb killed 130,000 people...” (17:12 – Ralph Nader)

• Abulhawa: “The complicity of Western media across the board is no less criminal than the genocide itself.” (20:49)

4. Erasure of Palestinian Identity & Culture

• (21:27-22:59) Deliberate destruction of universities, schools, museums – wiping out cultural identity and history, not just lives.
• Abulhawa (citing Fanon): “The idea is not just to kill the native, it is to erase their very identity. It is to strip them so utterly of their humanity, of their relevance to the land, of their history and their roots.” (22:59)

5. Debunking Common Propaganda & Exposing Myths

• Nader spotlights:
  • Israeli military always targeted civilians—contrary to official claims
  • Israel's historic use of Palestinians as human shields
  • The myth that Palestinians “hide behind civilians”
• Abulhawa: “Every accusation is a confession...The only way human shields works is if the other side has a compunction against killing civilians. Israel has shown that they will kill civilians in a heartbeat.” (25:59)

6. Internal Israeli Opposition & Public Opinion

• Nader: Human rights groups in Israel (e.g., Breaking the Silence, B’Tselem, Rabbis for Human Rights) exist, but...
• Abulhawa: “There are surveys showing that at least 82% of Jewish Israelis support what's happening. So I don't think that there is really a significant resistance in Israel.” (27:28)
• She expresses frustration over discussions of not generalizing: “I really don't care anymore, Ralph. And I have to say I think we need to speak very plainly about what is happening...If there is an opposition in Israel, it is a very small group of people.” (27:48-28:55)

7. International Law, the UN & the Role of the U.S.

• Discussion on Israel’s ongoing violations of UN resolutions, attacks on UN and humanitarian workers, and why the UN should suspend/expel Israel.

• Abulhawa: “They should have done that a long time ago. Yes, I do. Absolutely.” (31:37)

• On U.S. complicity: “The chokehold that Israel has on the United States is breathtaking...The hold that this foreign country has on the United States should concern every American, regardless of what they think of Israel.” (33:39-34:51 – Susan Abulhawa)

8. Campus Censorship and Suppression of Palestinian Voices

• Compliance of academic institutions (Harvard, Birzit) with Zionist donors and U.S. political interference to suppress Palestinian narrative.
• Abulhawa: “Any expression of Palestinian humanity...anything that challenges Israel's prevailing narrative is controlled.” (32:17)

9. Hostage Crisis & Media Narratives

• Steve Skrovan asks what Abulhawa would say to media figures who claim “this would all be over if Hamas released the hostages.”
• Abulhawa: “That's a lie...the hostage is not our main priority. The main priority is, quote, unquote, defeating Hamas. If they really wanted to get their hostages back, [they would negotiate]. But that's not the goal. The goal is to occupy Gaza...” (35:55)

10. October 7th, the ‘Hannibal Option,’ and Scuttling Ceasefires

• Abulhawa points out:
  • Many Israelis killed on Oct. 7 died from Israeli fire during their military’s response (Haaretz and international reports).
  • Sensational atrocities used to “manufacturer consent for genocide.”
  • Hamas is not a military threat to Israel.
• Nader: Motives for prolonging the war are domestic (saving Netanyahu’s government), not about hostages.

11. Gaza as “Prime Real Estate”: Colonial Ambitions

• Reference to U.S. and Israeli plans (Jared Kushner, Boston Consulting Group, Tony Blair aides) to clear Gaza for development.
• Abulhawa: “They have wanted Gaza for a long time...One of the greatest Israeli laments is that Ben Gurion did not finish the job.”

12. Impact on U.S. Politics and Public Opinion

• Support for Israel shapes U.S. elections; many disaffected Democratic voters.
• Nader: “...the effect is not ending. It's only going to get worse if they try to blow up the west bank and annex...”

13. The Question of Israel’s Right to Exist

• Hannah Feldman: “Does Israel have a right to exist, or does Israel have a right to exist as a Jewish state?”
• Abulhawa: “Of course it's no. No, I don't believe Israel has a right to exist. It has never had a right to exist. No political entities have a right to exist. People have a right to exist.” (46:55)
• Calls into question the notion of a singular Jewish people and the historical manipulation of identity for colonial ends.

14. Final Reflections: Dehumanization and Destruction

• Abulhawa recounts dehumanizing rhetoric from Israeli leaders:
  • Quote: “When we have settled all the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it is to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” (50:41, Rafael Eitan quoted by Abulhawa)
• The episode closes on the deliberate dismantling of Palestinian dignity and society.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “The ability to count and maintain records is compromised...further compromised by the outright murder of hospital administrators and the personnel who are tasked with keeping records.” (05:40 – Susan Abulhawa)
• “The complicity of Western media across the board is no less criminal than the genocide itself.” (20:49 – Susan Abulhawa)
• “At least 82% of Jewish Israelis support what's happening. So I don't think that there is really a significant resistance in Israel.” (27:28 – Susan Abulhawa)
• “It has never had a right to exist. No political entities have a right to exist. People have a right to exist.” (46:55 – Susan Abulhawa)
• “When we have settled all the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it is to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” (50:41 – Rafael Eitan quoted by Abulhawa)

Memorable Moments

• Susan’s detailed breakdown of why the official Gaza death count is so low—due to infrastructure destruction, rules requiring full identification, and exclusion of people not killed by bombs.
• Nader’s parallel between the bombing of Gaza and the bombing of Hiroshima: “...the TNT equivalent that's been dropped on Gaza exceeds six Hiroshima bombs.” (17:12)
• The frank discussion on Israeli and U.S. motives—land, real estate, gas fields—behind the continuing violence.
• Confronting the question of Israel’s “right to exist” and the distinction between the existence of people and the legitimacy of state entities founded on supremacist ideology.
• Naming the U.S. Congress and Washington as “Israeli occupied territory” in terms of political influence.

Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|--------------------------------------------------| | 01:01 | Opening/Context for the episode | | 03:00 | The reality and methods behind Palestinian death undercounting | | 13:30 | Media’s role in obscuring the real casualty figures | | 20:49 | Western media complicity and destruction of life in Gaza | | 22:59 | Erasure of Palestinian culture and identity | | 27:28 | Israeli public opinion and internal opposition | | 31:37 | Discussion on expelling Israel from the UN | | 33:39 | U.S. public opinion and governmental subservience | | 35:55 | “If Hamas released hostages, would it end?” debunked | | 39:18 | Who was killed on October 7th, and why Netanyahu blocks investigation | | 41:33 | Gaza as “prime real estate” and colonial ambitions| | 46:55 | The “right to exist” debate | | 50:41 | Rafael Eitan quote on dehumanization |

Tone

The conversation was urgent, candid, and deeply critical, marked by direct attributions of complicity and blame toward Western media, U.S. government, and Israeli leadership. The tone ranged from analytical to passionate and at times, deeply personal—especially during Abulhawa’s descriptions of life and death in Gaza.

For further information, visit the Ralph Nader Radio Hour website or refer to Susan Abulhawa’s writings and interviews on the crisis in Gaza.