3c:I[58016,["/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0abq8zp15pmva.js","/_next/static/chunks/05gz47kazl1ze.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0fg30bidui1gn.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/0bbc2ioe2xmkf.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"ProcessEpisodeButton"] 3e:I[185,["/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0abq8zp15pmva.js","/_next/static/chunks/05gz47kazl1ze.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0fg30bidui1gn.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/0bbc2ioe2xmkf.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"SendEmailButton"] 3f:I[45269,["/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0abq8zp15pmva.js","/_next/static/chunks/05gz47kazl1ze.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0fg30bidui1gn.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/0bbc2ioe2xmkf.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"SignupCTA"] 35:["$","time",null,{"dateTime":"2026-04-23T19:27:00.000Z","children":"Thu Apr 23 2026"}] 36:["$","p",null,{"className":"text-base text-foreground/80 leading-relaxed","children":"We talk about how TikTok and Spotify algorithms work, and whether we can ever discover music without marketing having its thumb on the scale."}] 3d:T50b,

Some fans of the indie-rock band Geese have been feeling betrayed after learning that TikToks that looked like they were made by fans were actually created by a PR firm. But is this just what artists have to do to make it in our hyper-saturated music world? And when major record companies have long been accused of payola, is this even new? We talk about how TikTok and Spotify algorithms work, and whether we can ever discover music without marketing having its thumb on the scale.

Guests:

Glenn McDonald, former "data alchemist" at Spotify; founder, music microgenre catalog Every Noise at Once

Darren Hemmings, author, industry insider newsletter Network Notes; founder and managing director, UK marketing agency Motive Unknown

Bobby Davin, senior vice president of A&R and label partnerships, Stem Distribution

Hiroki Tanaka, former lead guitarist, Canadian experimental prog group Yamantaka // Sonic Titan; just released the solo album ISAN (遺産)

Olivia Jones, associate music analyst, MIDiA Research

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