← Kreatures Of Habit Podcast 
Kreatures Of Habit Podcast
Brushing Your Teeth Could Save Your Life | Dr. Kenny Brown on Feno & Radical Oral Health
00:49:05
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- [00:00]
A
So let's start at the top. The bacteria and periodontal disease, gum disease has been shown to be linked with dementia and Alzheimer's.
- [00:09]
B
Wow.
- [00:10]
A
So the same bacteria. So the way that the study was done, the same bacteria that was in the gums was on the plaques in the brain. The same exact one. So like, oh, where's this coming from? It's coming from the mouth, right? So if you want to start at the very top in the brain, there's actually no valves going from your mouth up to your brain. Right. So blood vessel wise, it just free pass. Right? So that is huge. Right. When I first started training in surgery, one of the first pages I got was from cardiovascular surgery and they said, hey, we have to take out the teeth of this, of this like 40 year old guy. Like, why? It's like because we have to replace a valve and we can't jeopardize the surgery in this person's heart because he has gum disease. We had to take out all the teeth.
- [00:53]
B
Wow. All his teeth.
- [00:54]
A
All the teeth. 40 something.
- [00:56]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [00:56]
A
Right? So poor habits can affect your heart.
- [01:00]
B
I'm Michael Chernow and this is the Creatures of Habit podcast. Our habits will make us or break us. It's just that simple. I've lived on both sides of the tracks and have learned that the decisions we make on a consistent basis truly define who we are as human beings. On this show, I will be interviewing some of the most inspiring, motivating and high performing humans I've encountered to share their daily habits, routines and rituals that help them stay on top of their game and ultimately happy. So sit back, relax, and pay attention, because what you hear over the next 30 to 45 minutes could potentially change your life. Let's go. All right, y' all, I wanna talk about oral healthcare. And you know, a few months ago, we put an episode out with Dr. Jonathan Lev where I was just blown away. I've been focused on my wellness, focused on my health for a really long time. A lot of you listening are too. And that episode kind of sent shockwaves through this community because of what we learned about oral healthcare and the fact that even in functional medicine, doctors are not really talking about oral health care. At the end of the day, our mouth is the gateway to our body, to our systems, to our overall wellness. And the stuff that goes on in our mouth could be a direct reflection of the things, or most likely is a direct reflection of what's going on inside of our bodies. So if you're not focusing on your Oral healthcare habitually. You might wanna rethink that. After that episode with Jonathan, with Dr. Jonathan Levine, I changed up my whole. And I thought I had a good system going. I really did. I thought I had a good oral program going. I brushed my teeth morning and night, I flossed my teeth, but I did not scrape my tongue. I did not put like use a mouthwash that was actually good for my mouth resetting the ph. I just didn't do those things. And so because of that, because of the feedback I got from that episode, I wanted bring on another expert who is doing something revolutionary, truly revolutionary in the world of oral healthcare. Dr. Kenny Brown is here with us today and he created something called the Feno, which is, it is truly the next level of teeth brushing. There's also something on the Feno and we'll show you what this thing looks like where you can literally do an oral, like an oral health scan. It has a camera in it, you open up your mouth, it scans your mouth, it takes an image of your mouth and sends it to a healthcare practitioner that could ultimately walk you through some stuff that you may need to focus on. So it is truly like one of the coolest things and the coolest thing about it as far as I'm concerned, is that I think it's got 18,000 bristles in it. And you put it in your mouth for 20 seconds and you know if you're doing it right, it takes two minutes to brush your teeth. You spend 30 seconds on the front top, you spend 30 seconds on the back top, 30 seconds on the bottom and 30 seconds on the front bottoms, 30 seconds on the back bottoms. It is a pain in the ass. And those two minutes can feel like fucking forever. You know what I mean? But as we know, this is a creatures habit podcast. Like you have a habit, you stick to it and you want to make the most of it. You optimize this product, this piece of hardware cuts that down by like a tenth because now you're spending 20 seconds. So it's unbelievable. And Dr. Kenny Brown has done some incredible things just in the world of oral healthcare. He's an oral surgeon and he brought this thing to market. And I'm just really excited to introduce Dr. Kenny to you. But also talk about Feno and all the things that we need to continue to look for in our oral healthcare. Bridging the between oral health care and our oral health care habits and general health. Doc, welcome to the show.
- [05:22]
A
Thank you. Thank you, Michael. Thanks for having me.
- [05:24]
B
So why don't we like, let's just get into the oral healthcare situation. Like, in terms of how we should be thinking about what's going on in our mouth and how not enough doctors, like your general practitioner or your general doctor is not going to mention the connection between what goes on in the mouth and heart health, cognitive health, kidney health, like, all of it.
- [05:50]
A
Right, Right. The way that we think about it is oral health is your overall health. It's just a piece. Right. If we think about. We've heard a lot about gut health. Right. Where do you think the gut starts? Your mouth. Right. Another way to put it is that the mouth has so much blood vessels. Right. A lot of times we take medication. One of the fastest acting medications is like a nitrous tab when we put it for, like, heart attacks. Right. Or people having chest pain. The fastest way to get in your system is under your tongue. So the amount of blood flow that comes from your mouth to the rest of your body is tremendous. And so this is why, you know, oral health is your overall health. It's connected to your brain, your heart, your lungs, your gut, reproductive system, et cetera, et cetera. And I feel like the world is finally catching up to this now.
- [06:37]
B
So what propelled you to want to sort of change the game? Like, what propelled you to want to bring this message?
- [06:46]
A
Yeah, so I think there's some critical issues. The problems that we're solving is the compliance. The toothbrush hasn't been invented since the 1500s. I mean, we're still using the same toothbrush shape since the 1500s. Right. Imagine that, like horse and buggy, like electricity. Right. We're still using that. We have cars driving on their own, but yet we can't brush our teeth more effectively. Right then. So that's when it's compliance. Nearly half of adults in the United States have some form of gum disease. Half in the United States. We're talking about developed country, like rich country that has education. Half. So that was one. So the time and technique that it takes to brush your teeth, and then we think about access and awareness. So you love this as far as the habits go, People don't brush their teeth properly. We say two minutes, people brush it 30 seconds. So it's like we need to come up with a way that, like, hey, makes it easier. Right. This is part of building great habits is make it easy, make it make sense. And that's why we started with the toothbrush.
- [07:49]
B
So I'll use a great example. My kids, right? Like, how many. How many parents do you know that, like, Just battle with kids to brush their teeth. Right. Like with my kids, this is what I've done. And it, and it and any parent listening, please take this, please take this little, this little hack to help your kids brush your teeth. So I've got two sons, 7 year old and a 10 year old. And about two years ago, I mean we used to fight, man. Like brush. Having the kids brush their teeth before bed is just like it's the last thing they want to do. Right. And so I know I'm not getting two minutes out of them but if I can get 60 seconds I'm going to take it.
- [08:31]
A
Right.
- [08:31]
B
So what I've done is I, I give both of their, both of their toothbrush and I was like gentlemen, your weapons. And I give them their toothbrushes and they stand next to each other and I'm like, this is a battle. And I introduce them. I'm like Finley Hudson Chernow coming out of the blue corner, you know, and Dakota Lane Chernow the rumbler. And they toothbrush battle.
- [08:52]
A
Yeah.
- [08:53]
B
And I count down from 60 and I'm like whoever's, whoever brushes their teeth best wins. And then as soon as I get down to the zero, they got to pull their toothbrush out of their mouth and so they, they battle every single night to br. Brush their teeth. It's, it's, it is, it's a battle between them which actually works but it's also been a battle to get them to that place.
- [09:12]
A
Right, right, right.
- [09:13]
B
It can this, is this, can this work for kids?
- [09:16]
A
Yeah. So we're actually going to come out with the kids version. Your oldest can probably try it at the lowest setting and be okay. For kids mouth, their teeth are a little bit smaller. We want to make sure it's gentle. So we are coming out with the kids product. I'll actually give you the prototype of the kids mouthpiece. Yeah, yeah. So you can try it with him. But yeah, so we definitely want to do it with kids. And I think that's the thing. It' like even from we're little we're not learning the proper habit so we just carry it all the way until adulthood. Right. It's like our parents only got us to brush for 30 seconds and we just carry that all the way to adulthood and then we expect the same thing for our kids. Not really thinking about it.
- [09:51]
B
I want to start with, for anybody who didn't listen to the episode with Jonathan, I would love to just hear like putting the fino aside, what would be a great oral care routine for anybody Listening.
- [10:06]
A
Yeah. I think it starts with brushing and flossing. Right. Consistently. I think, as you know, consistency is key for any of this. Right. Every brush counts and I think that we should acknowledge that. And it's a win. Right. When you brush your teeth, it's a win. A lot of times I hear constantly from patients who are in a, maybe in depressive state or even adhd, they have a hard time. Self care is one of those first things that goes totally right. And we just, and we need to. I think historically, providers have always separated themselves. Kind of like, oh, you're not doing the right thing. Right. You know, scolding, right. Like, oh, this is not working. But I think we need to just meet the patients where we're at, talk about it, celebrate it. Right. So brushing and flossing, whatever you are willing to do, brushing and flossing, that's going to be the best.
- [10:52]
B
And is. And brushing and flossing, both in the morning and at night.
- [10:56]
A
Yes. Some people will say you can just floss once a day, which is probably appropriate. But. And if that's what you get, then fantastic. Right. I think things like mouthwash are a plus. Right. I think regular senior dentist, I mean, you'll see all kinds of things out there. Right. Think about the mouth as a source of inflammation. So anything that you do in your body for that source of inflammation, including like red light therapy in your mouth, will be extremely beneficial. Right. So if you want to be the ultimate. Right, there are red light therapies for your mouth.
- [11:28]
B
Wow, I didn't know that.
- [11:29]
A
If you really, really want to go that high. But at the end of the day, if we can brush every day, twice a day, it makes a huge difference. Now the problem is we gotta brush correctly. Right. Half doing it, doing it for, you know, 30 seconds. Not touching this part, not touching, you're gonna hurt yourself. Right. So that's why we created fino, is because, like, hey, we need to give people a way to brush better now.
- [11:51]
B
That we've got sort of a good routine. Right. Just make sure you're brushing the right way. Make sure you're flossing at least once a day.
- [11:59]
A
Yeah.
- [12:01]
B
Some sort of a mouthwash that's not destroying your teeth and destroying your mouth. Right. Because there are those too, Right?
- [12:05]
A
Yes, yes.
- [12:06]
B
So, like, for mouthwash, like, what would you, like, how would you distinguish the right. From the wrong.
- [12:10]
A
Yeah. Ones with alcohol. Absolutely not. Right. It basically it burns so you think something's happening, but it's absolutely destroying even the good bacteria in your mouth. Right. That's what we want to stay away from the PH balance. You kind of mentioned that earlier. PH balance is important because the higher acidity we have, the. Our enamel gets eroded away. So if we can lower that acidity, then we have a better chance. Even out on, believe it or not, even rinsing after just eating allows some of those digestive enzymes that, that raise that level of acidity to break down the food. And you just lower that. It does wonders. Right. Avoiding sodas and things of that nature. Why? Because it's acidic. And so we just need to neutralize it. And that's what. That's it.
- [12:52]
B
Do you have, do you guys have a mouthwash? Are you guys developing something?
- [12:57]
A
Yeah, we are, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Developing. We're taking every single piece of this oral health routine and gonna dramatically innovate. For so long it's been about, oh, does it feel, you know, being a certain color or does it burn? Right. Or just white straight teeth? The mouth is so much more than white, straight teeth. White straight teeth are fantastic, but it's so much more. Right. I see white, straight teeth all the time and I gotta take them all out because there's decay, there's infection, there's bacterial overload in those mouths.
- [13:25]
B
W. So, okay, so the routine is kind of down. And anybody who is listening to this, chances are knows that a routine is kind of necessary for your mouth.
- [13:38]
A
Right, Right.
- [13:40]
B
Let's talk about the issues that a poor oral care routine can create.
- [13:49]
A
Yes. Yeah. I mean, where do we begin? Let's go deep.
- [13:52]
B
Let's go deep.
- [13:53]
A
So let's start at the top. The bacteria and periodontal disease, Gum disease has been shown to be linked with dementia and Alzheimer's.
- [14:02]
B
Wow.
- [14:03]
A
So the same bacteria. So the way that the study was done, the same bacteria that was in the gums was on the plaques in the brain. The same exact one. So like, oh, where's this coming from? It's coming from the mouth, right. So if you want to start at the very top in the brain, there's actually no valves going from your mouth up to your brain. Right. So blood vessel wise, it just free pass. Right? So that is huge. Right. When I first started training in surgery, one of the first pages I got was from cardiovascular surgery and they said, hey, we have to take out the teeth of this, of this like 40 year old guy. Like, why? It's like, because we have to replace a valve and we can't jeopardize the surgery in this person's heart because he's had scum disease. We had to take out all the teeth.
- [14:46]
B
Wow. All his teeth.
- [14:47]
A
All the teeth. 40 something.
- [14:49]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [14:50]
A
Right? So poor habits can affect your heart. Right. And it goes both ways. Not only does it originate in the mouth, but also it'll show up in the mouth. Diabetic patients. Right. If you have uncontrolled glucose, your gums will be inflamed and vice versa. Inflamed gums prevent you from being able to control your diabetes. Right. So it goes both ways. Let's go even further down. Reproductive health. Right. There was a health care executive from a big, big plan that talked about how their pregnant mothers, when they had periodontal disease, they were like five times more likely to have preterm labor or low birth weight baby. So that's huge. I mean, it's traumatic.
- [15:36]
B
I mean, we're talking about 50% of the United States has.
- [15:38]
A
Has periodontal disease.
- [15:40]
B
That's crazy.
- [15:40]
A
Right? So now. So now you're like, wait, if we have this disease and we're just ignoring it and it's slowly killing us from the inside out, because it may not hurt like, the same way. Right. Or may just be like, oh, I got bleeding gums. Or like, it's just a slow burn. Right. And. And that's why we have to pay attention. So, like, when you look at the body from the, from the tip of your head to the tip of your toes, it's affecting everything. It's affecting everything.
- [16:04]
B
So if you do have periodontal disease, can you reverse it?
- [16:09]
A
Yes. Yeah. So you can treat it. Right. And a part of that is just brushing your teeth appropriately. Right. There are, there are cleaning. So sometimes you have to get a deep cleaning where you get some of that plaque off of the teeth so that the gums can heal and the bacterial load is not as high. Sometimes you have to treat it with certain mouth rinses. There's some prescription mouth rinses. There are. Sometimes there's surgery you have to do, right. To get just like literally get rid of the stuff that's the source of the bacteria load. And sometimes that's the teeth. Maybe not all of them, except come with some of them. Sometimes you just have to. You just have to go all the way.
- [16:45]
B
Surgery, man. It's so crazy that it's just not more prominent, right?
- [16:52]
A
It is.
- [16:52]
B
It's crazy that not enough people are talking about this.
- [16:57]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's just been constantly overlooked. And it's always been about white, straight teeth. Right. And I think that's been the biggest disservice to our overall wellness and health.
- [17:07]
B
What. Like, so what would be a good. Like a symptom that, that you can, you can share.
- [17:12]
A
Yeah. That.
- [17:13]
B
That people could look out for bleeding.
- [17:16]
A
Gums or tenderness in your gums. Those are the easy, very easy things. Like when you brush or when you floss. Right. Those are two big signs that something is going on. Right. And the bleeding, like I say, you're flossing for the first time and you haven't flossed in a while, it's going to bleed for a couple days. And then if it goes away. Okay, cool. We're in a good spot. But if it doesn't, we need to be concerned. Those are two easy ways to tell. Right. And here's a. Here's a little bit scary thing, is that it can turn off and on. So just because you don't have it today doesn't mean you won't have it next week. It's a little bit scary. But that's why the habit is so important, is that we, we maintain this over the course of time. Because just because you're good today doesn't mean you're good next month.
- [17:55]
B
You know, it's crazy. So. So when I got my feno, I. I put it in my mouth and I just couldn't believe that it was gonna. That like a 22nd situation was gonna do. What I. Cause the fact is, is that like, I really do love I love routine. I'm a massive habit guy.
- [18:17]
A
Yeah.
- [18:17]
B
And obviously I created a business called Creatures. This podcast is called Creatures of Habit. I believe our habits will make us or break us. And if you choose the wrong one, chances are you're gonna end up somewhere not so pleasant. Right. And so I put this thing in my mouth and it was shit. It like, you know, I'll show everybody here. So this is. So this is the pheno. These things fired up.
- [18:40]
A
Yeah, you got. It's on sleep mode right now.
- [18:42]
B
So it's this. It's this piece of hardware and you get a custom mouthpiece to the size and shape of your mouth. It's got bristles on the inside, on the outside, and all along the bottoms here. And you put this foam in and then you just turn it on and it. This thing doesn't take a second to fire up, but there it is. So this thing goes in your mouth and it brushes the F out of your teeth. And you know, it's funny because at first I was like, I can't believe that this thing is 20 seconds right. Like 20 seconds. Is that enough? But then when you really think about it, this is covering every single surface of your teeth at one time. Whereas when you're brushing your teeth, you gotta hit the front, the back, the undersides. The front, the back, the undersides. This thing covers everything. So in 20 seconds, you are getting a much deeper brush than when you're just brushing your teeth traditionally with even electric toothbrush. The feeling of my teeth after a brush with this thing. I was saying to my friend Ben, who initially introduced me to Fino, I was like, dude, I feel like I just got out of like a dentist visit.
- [20:07]
A
Cleaning? Yeah, cleaning. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [20:09]
B
You know, and I mean, it's pretty incredible. The piece that I think is the most powerful though, and I think what you alluded to earlier is like, creating a habit is not easy. You know what I mean? Creating a habit, it's my, my whole message is like, better habits, better life. Right? Creating a habit is tough though. Changing behavior is really, really hard. If you, if, if you've worked a long day, you got home, you had some dinner with your, you know, with your, with your family, you're done, you're exhausted. Like, the last thing you want to do is sit there for two minutes brushing your teeth, right? What you did was take that two minute, which feels like two hour long experience into a 20 second, you know, situation that like, it's just, it's crazy that this hasn't come out before, you know.
- [21:01]
A
Yeah. I mean, people have tried, people have tried the U shaped brush or the full mouth brush, people have tried. The issue is that one, there may not have been a provider behind it from the design like you talked about. Those bristles are designed to be very specific. It's designed at a certain angle, at a certain length. I mean, we got a physicist on board to measure the sweep of these bristles, right. The way we developed this and all those different shapes and sizes, we use AI, we used an algorithm. We built an algorithm that allowed us to test so many different shapes and sizes. We went through over 100,000 iterations to make that.
- [21:36]
B
A hundred thousand.
- [21:38]
A
A hundred thousand, right. So when you really think about like the effort that was put into is tremendous. It's beyond what anybod has ever done. Which is why you feel that level of clean is. Because 100,000 iterations of that and we're still going, right? I'm gonna share the child one with you so you can see. And so like that, that makes all the difference, right? There's different speeds, so you still get a level of control, right? You still kind of move it around and make sure you get all the nooks and crannies. You can change the speed up or down so there's still a level of control there, but you really get that effective clean.
- [22:10]
C
Interrupting this episode to share with you how we keep this podcast going and that is by you supporting us through trying out or subscribing to Meal1 on creaturesofhabit.com I am giving a 20% discount on your first order or your first subscription order, which is a serious discount. Meal1 is a superfood meal. It is a blend of gluten and glyphosate free oats. It is packed with 30 grams of plant based protein, omega 3 fatty acids, a probiotic, digestive enzymes, vitamin D3. It also has chia seeds, flaxseeds, vitamin pumpkin seeds and a little bit of pink Himalayan Salt. There are 37 grams of healthy carbohydrates and anywhere from 7 to 10 grams of fat depending on the flavor. You will be full for hours, people, I promise you. We developed Meal one to help you perform at your absolute best to get that incredibly healthy and convenient edge on the competition. There is not a better, more convenient meal to start your day with or use as a pre or post workout meal. The macros are perfect and sourced with the cleanest ingredients in the game. Take your performance to the next level. Make your life much easier by saving time. Be able to eat healthy without sacrificing flavor and all while staying full for hours, making your urge to snack far far less. Hop over to creaturesofhabit.com that is creaturesofhabit.com and use promo code K O H P O d the number 20 for your first order of meal one today.
- [23:35]
B
Back to the pod. You know this podcast. So we tend to talk about habits and I do want to ask you about your habits as well because I think it's important important that, that you know, we touch touch on that. But I have kind of, I'm like a self proclaimed like wellness Google.
- [23:52]
A
Okay.
- [23:52]
B
For people that, for people that follow my, my, my personal journey. Because I just, I am, I am a glutton for optimization.
- [24:02]
A
Sure.
- [24:03]
B
And if I find a product that I really love that I use every single day, I just feel this obligatory responsibility to then share it with my community. And so the community has really kind of looked at me, looked to me as this person who shares really cool ways to optimize your life. Right. And, and I don't know how that happened. I Kind of just, like, fell into it because I'm. I really am like a. Like a discovery junkie and down to try things at least twice. But I didn't bring you on the show to, like, sell the fino.
- [24:36]
A
Right.
- [24:37]
B
I brought you on the show because, like, a. I think the oral healthcare conversation is, like, the feedback that I got from that one episode that I did with Dr. Jonathan Levy was so strong. People were like, oh, my God. Like, I had. No. I just didn't know.
- [24:53]
A
Right.
- [24:54]
B
Like, I just felt it was my responsibility to continue having this conversation. I think it's so important to have the conversation because the fact of the matter is, is that our exposure to environmental toxins, to microplastics, to things that are just in the air, in the water, in the food, it's almost impossible to stave away from. Right? Like, it's almost impossible. So we are just exposed. We are just exposed.
- [25:20]
A
Right?
- [25:20]
B
And that. You know that for me, like, I don't walk around in fear, but I certainly do walk around very interested in finding things that I can do and then share with the community to just prevent and. Or just be better.
- [25:37]
A
Yep.
- [25:37]
B
Right. Make, like, choose this, not that.
- [25:39]
A
Right.
- [25:40]
B
You know, and so with this, I was like, it just seems too good to be true. Right? It's 20 seconds, and it takes. You don't even have to do anything, right? You just throw the thing in your mouth and, like, you know, you can move it around a little bit. But it's like that. Like, it just. It just takes the whole experience to a whole nother level with brushing teeth. And I never. I never thought that I would just be so excited about a damn toothbrush.
- [26:06]
A
I hear you. I mean, you're familiar with all the books of Atomic Habits and Hooked, and I talked to Niriyal, author of Hooked, very early on about this because they said, hey, when we're thinking about taking care of ourselves, why can't brushing your teeth be the trigger that allows us to take better care of ourselves? It's sort of accepted as this norm, brushing your teeth, but whenever you're trying to build a habit, you kind of got to stack it. You got to need a system to be able to give yourself the best chance of being successful. I was like, well, why can't it start with brushing your teeth? It should. We visit the bathroom. We make our best efforts. We may not do it correctly, but we go to the bathroom, and we do in the morning, and we try to get there at night if we're not just passing out. But it's like, hey, why can't it start with brushing your teeth? And so really this is a trigger for a brain broader, like you're taking a step forward in optimizing your health and doing something good for yourself and beyond.
- [27:05]
B
You know, I like, I love that you say that because, you know, you are doing something that I did with, with Meal one and creatures of habit, right? Like when people think of habits, you know, the next sort of sentence is, you know, like brushing your teeth, like putting on your shoes before you leave the house. Right? Like habits, like one of the first things you think of.
- [27:27]
A
Right.
- [27:27]
B
And you know, but what I'm hearing from you, which I love because it's my, the same philosophy that I had with Meal one, which is like, you know, it's not, it's not just a toothbrush. This is not just an oatmeal.
- [27:42]
A
Right.
- [27:42]
B
This is a win. Right. It's a win in the beginning of your day to help you, to help trigger this, this better decision making process.
- [27:53]
A
Yeah.
- [27:54]
B
Right. Like if you can put those little flags, those winning flags. And I'm not talking about win the race, I'm not talking about be the best. I'm talking about just little small wins that you can stack up in the beginning of your day to ultimately help you make better decisions throughout the rest of your day. Like, if you start there, your chances of making better decisions are just far greater.
- [28:15]
A
Right?
- [28:16]
B
That is basically what we did here and that's what you've done here. It's, it's just this, it's, it's, it's, it's setting yourself up for success.
- [28:24]
A
It's our job. It's a calling. And for me, fino is a calling. This is like when you ask me why, why would I do this? Like, because I'm interested in scaling care. What's. The best way to scale care for me is through this, right? Is to be able to empower you to be able to make the better decision today and make it easy for you, make it fun for you. It's a part of like, it's a, that's, that's the calling, right? Your calling is like, hey, I need to, I'm going to deliver a nutritious first meal of the day because the calling, because I know this stuff and I know this is my, this is my realm of genius, right? It's like, and I'm going to give you it's a calling. It's a part of our role. And I think we all have these, right? Everybody has their zone of Genius that they can help give to others. And I think as a healthcare provider at the very, very core level of it, that's what it is. It's how do I care for more people?
- [29:14]
B
You know, this isn't your first rodeo. You've created a business before this, you've sold it, you went to Stanford. You're, you're a successful, ambitious dude. Right. And so that, that requires, I would imagine, systems and habits. Right. Like I do believe that the one common denominator amongst most successful people, and I'm not just talking about financially successful, I'm talking about just people that have accomplish things in life that one would consider to be, you know, like, like worth having a conversation about. Does the one common denominator is, from what I've seen is, is in habit.
- [29:56]
A
Right.
- [29:56]
B
Like the, the decisions that you make on a daily basis consistently. Because habit could be, like we said earlier, it could be, it could go both ways.
- [30:03]
A
Right? Yeah.
- [30:04]
B
So what, what is like, have you had a morning routine that you've stuck to for a while?
- [30:09]
A
Yeah. So I mean, morning routine wise. So I start surgery pretty early, like 6 in the morning. So it's like pretty dark and I'm kind of moving. But I would say the foundation of my mornings include prayer and so it's like kind of getting me ready for the day and like what I'm asked for. It kind of reminds me of why I'm up and doing this water, to be honest. And that's been the core foundation of it. As you know, with kids, your habits get interrupted and things all the time. I got three of them. Right. So 10, four and about to be two.
- [30:45]
B
Wow.
- [30:46]
A
So you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like your habits are interrupted. But I have found that for morning wise, prayer and the water have like been staples for me. Obviously I brush my teeth. Right. Like a bad man, but that's been it. But I actually think that my habits have gone throughout the day. It's not. Doesn't just start in the morning, it's throughout the day. So for example, surgery preparation is like a normal flow X ray medical history plan. Right. X ray medical history just kind of like flows like that. Right. And I think having these throughout the day can allow you to reset because you could have had an off morning. But if you can reset and you have a system that's at 10 or at 1, you get a chance to reset.
- [31:37]
B
Let's talk about a reset.
- [31:38]
A
Yeah.
- [31:39]
B
What does a reset look like for you?
- [31:40]
A
So let's say. So I think it's having the System. So if it's around surgery, I already know, like, okay, I gotta go with this one. Even if that previous surgery, let's say that something happened, there's complication, didn't go exactly the way I wanted to, or the outcome, like the next one is the next one. I get to start, I get to restart that, right? Meetings, same thing. I get to restart it every time. What is the, you know, what are we doing, what are we trying to accomplish? And I get to reset every time. So no matter. I'm a former basketball player, so like they call it the next shot mentality, right. Whether you missed that shot or not, like you got to get back on defense and you got to shoot the next one as if you made it, right? As if, like, who cares? You gotta have a very short memory, right?
- [32:18]
B
Past is history.
- [32:19]
A
The past is history. We gotta, we gotta have a very short memory and we just gotta keep going, right? We gotta keep shooting, right? And so that's really the thought process. So I think having the ability to like have these things throughout, these sort of check ins throughout the day, I think allow you to maybe have things that didn't go so well, but you can get back on track.
- [32:37]
B
What about an evening routine? Do you have an evening routine that you, that you kind of stick to?
- [32:41]
A
Yeah, it's centered around the family and because that's sort of my. Why that's where I get the most fulfillment, that's where I get the most gratefulness. And I think that allows me to get nice sleep right? When I have that time to play with the kids, eat with the kids, put them to sleep, and then hang out with my wife. It really. And that, that sort of like levels everything, right? No matter what the day did or didn't do, it allows me to like level it out. And so I think that, that, so it's a lot. Not so much as a, you know, I'm in a sauna for 30 minutes or like. Cause these things come and go. Like, you know, with kids and with a startup and with patients, like, you can't. It's hard to predict all that. And if I wait, if I have to have that to like set me up, then I'm not as adaptable as I should be.
- [33:27]
B
Totally.
- [33:28]
A
And adaptability in this world, right? You got to be adaptable. And so I think those are the things that ground me.
- [33:35]
B
I love that. I mean I, I have so much identification with you because I, you know, fast paced, busy life, right? Entrepreneurship, you're a surgeon and an entrepreneur. It's It's a lot to take on all the time. There's never a moment, I'm sure in your life that you're not working at some capacity. Like that's you are probably on whenever somebody reaches out, right? Like, it's not like you could physically shut the computer, you could physically leave the operating room. But at the end of the day, if the phone rings, I gotta answer it, you gotta answer it, and you.
- [34:13]
A
Gotta answer it, right?
- [34:15]
B
And so like I do believe that there is this, like, it just makes me so happy to hear that. You said you get the most gratitude from being with your family. I had to ask myself that question about six months ago because I found myself, I'm an out in front guy. I love this. This is what I was born to do. I love communicating and connecting with humans at scale. That is like my favorite thing to do on the planet. It wakes me up in the morning. That's what excites me. Lifting up rocks, getting to develop new relationships. Like, I love that.
- [34:48]
A
Yeah.
- [34:48]
B
And I know, like I'm confident. It comes in supernaturally to me. It is my superpower. And, and like that is what I was meant to do, right. And I found myself with creatures of habit, spending a lot of time in an office by myself behind a computer. And like I, like, I was, like I was, it was in, it was in the beginning of the winter and I was just feeling like, man, like this is not what I'm supposed to be doing. This is not what I'm supposed to be doing. Like I'm not, I'm not the guy, right? To be by myself in an office behind the computer all day long. And I said, you know what Chernow, like ask yourself what. Where do you find the most joy in your life? It could be anything. Where do you find the most joy? And I immediately went to spending time with my wife and kids. Yeah, that is guaranteed for me, right? Where I am just at my happiest when I'm with them, right? And then the next, the next sort of conversation I had was, okay, so if that's where you find the most joy and gratitude in your life, where, how can you, how can you give yourself the best opportunity to spend as much time there as possible? And I said, right now, where I'm at in building this business, this is a season in my life where I just got to do this, right? Like, I could easily say, oh, you know what? If this is what it's going to be, I don't want to do this anymore.
- [36:15]
A
Right.
- [36:15]
B
You know, if this is, this is what it is. If the business is contingent on my success or progress or productivity as a, as a guy in an office behind a computer, man, yeah, I might as well toss this thing, you know what I mean? It's a season. It's a season. And so I just, I love that you said that because I'm sure you spent a lot of time in places as an entrepreneur that you're not like, oh, yeah, this is the best use of my time.
- [36:42]
A
Right.
- [36:43]
B
You know, right. What, like with, with the business now, what do you think the conversation could be going forward about oral health care? Do you see people talking more about this, what sounds to be like a real issue?
- [37:02]
A
Yeah, I do, I do. And the research is showing it. More and more publications are coming about about the connection between the mouth and the body. And so I think it's going to be a bigger thing. But I think, you know, what I, what I am also aware of as a provider is overwhelming our patients or our customers. Right. We don't want to overwhelm them. So it's very important to make it easy, to make it accessible, to make it enjoyable because, or else you're like, you just get so debilitated by all the things that you have to do to optimize your health. Like, I can't, I can't do any of it. Right.
- [37:34]
B
Adding another thing.
- [37:34]
A
Right, right. And it's, and it's, it's actually the reason why we have the, our medic. Our medical spin in this country is so high is because of poor compliance in general. If you look at what, what are the reasons why we are, we have these medications, what are the reasons why we're in, you know, our health isn't the way it is, is because of our poor habits or non compliance. Right. If you said, oh, I can cure everything if you just eat these foods, it's like, well, okay, well that's cool. But like, if you don't have the habit to do that or you have the compliance to do that, then, okay, now these things are going to happen, right? You're going to have this trickle effect. And so I think this is going to become a bigger part of the conversation. It already has. And we will continue to be advocates for this and the future about oral health is your overall health. But I think it's up to the creators of the world to do entrepreneurs to like, how do we make this easy, enjoyable, fun? How do we do this for ourselves as, as, as humanity?
- [38:34]
B
You know, I read a statistic recently that said 43% of the United States is categorized obese.
- [38:44]
A
Right?
- [38:44]
B
Right. 43%. 50% of the United States, a stat that you just said has periodontal disease.
- [38:52]
A
Right.
- [38:53]
B
The number one reason for the obesity epidemic that we have in this country is poor nutritional habits. Right? It's the number one. It is the number one reason as to why. And so these numbers are really, like, they're sort of awe inspiring to see. The percentages have just gone up.
- [39:19]
A
Right.
- [39:20]
B
And if there's not, you know, not for people like you that are out there trying to just sort of say, hey, like, open your eyes. Yeah, like, open, open your eyes.
- [39:31]
A
Yeah.
- [39:31]
B
There is. There are things that we can do to mitigate these issues. And I think the hardest part is that the traditional healthcare system in the country is just not making it easy.
- [39:46]
A
No.
- [39:46]
B
You know, it's just not making it easy. And what. And I've had a lot of people on this podcast over the last few years that have sort of pointed to this idea that if you don't like, the healthcare system that we have is really a sick care system. Right. It's. They're there when it's either too late or the problem has already become apparent and very, very real.
- [40:15]
A
Yeah.
- [40:15]
B
I think with things like this and things like meal one and just like, functional medicine taking a sort of a step onto the platform, real health care is when you take it into your own hands. And I think more people need to hear that. I think that we have more control than we think. Go into your GP once a year for them to touch your lymph nodes, to have you follow the light, stick it in your ear, get on a scale fully dressed with your backpack on. You know what I mean? Like, when I walk into the doctor to get my physical, they're like, just hop on the scale. And I'm like, like, you know, like, I got like 10 pounds extra here. They're like, yeah, don't worry about it. You know, like, that system is. Is. Is not. Is not making the. The not helping us make the greatest decisions.
- [41:05]
A
It's reaction. It's not proactive. Right. And how. How are the. How does the billing work? So if you just wanted a little insight, all billing works off of the procedures that I complete. That's the only way I get paid is off the procedures that I complete. Now, this is not to demonize doctors or anything like that, but it is just to say, like, hey, it's a little bit backwards, right? Like, why would I only get paid for the. Cause whenever I need to do a Procedure, especially surgery, it means that, like, we've gotten to the last line. Surgery should always be the last option, not the first option. Right. And so if you said, okay, well, I only get paid off of. I only get paid or reimbursed or everybody only is here to do the last line. Right. And that's our motivation or not subconscious motivation, right? It's like, well, hey, this doesn't make sense. Shouldn't we have, like, tried to avoid this for as long as possible, right. Before we did this? And shouldn't all of our motivations be aligned to keep you out of my office? Right. That's what you would think. Right. And I think that's sort of like the way that we should be thinking about this. Right.
- [42:09]
B
I'm reading a book right now that somebody suggested I read on this therapeutic technique called Mental Emotional Release.
- [42:19]
A
Okay.
- [42:20]
B
It's really interesting, but it's basically a therapeutic technique that is tapping into the unconscious as opposed to the conscious mind.
- [42:30]
A
Okay.
- [42:31]
B
And I'm only about a quarter or halfway through the book, so I haven't gotten like, deep, deep, deep into it. But there was a really interesting story that was told in the book about a community in China that only pays the village doctor if people are not sick. So this doctor gets paid by everybody in the community when people are not sick. If people are sick, that doctor does not get paid.
- [42:59]
A
Right.
- [43:00]
B
That is crazy. Right? But when you really think about it, I mean, I think that's obviously an exaggerated version of what we're talking about here, but doctors get paid when people get sick, and that's just a fact. Doctors get paid when people get sick. And, like, you can be your own village doctor in, in. In China. Yeah, right. Like you can, with tools like this, with a number of things that have become available, you can prevent bad things from happening. I did not know two and a half months ago that potentially a lot of the stuff that I've experienced and I think my journey in wellness, you know, coming from addiction into recovery, and then I was bitten by a tick and I got Lyme disease. And like, all these things have happened to me, my gut and, you know, like, I just didn't know tuna before two and a half months ago that, like, taking care of my mouth is a. Is a very, very for sure, proven, scientific, studied way to prevent potential issues with other areas and systems in my body.
- [44:24]
A
It's vital. It's vital. And at the very least, at the very least, let's say, let's say we wanted to, you know, we can talk about optimization. But let's talk about just like keeping your teeth into your elder years, right? So think about what do our teeth do? Okay. They chew food. Like, do you know that the nutrition for like a lot of the elderly is so bad? Why? Because they can't chew. If they don't teeth then to chew so like they can't even get greens or, you know, like raw vegetables or to be able to nourish themselves because they can't chew. Right. And so like, I think just at the very fundamental aspect of why the mouth is important, how it's important, it's just, it's just been overlooked and it's been completely undervalued and it's starting to come out about how important the mouth really is. And we're here for it, right? We're here for it. We're going to be leaders in that we want to partner. We want to spread the message beyond any. Beyond the brush. Beyond the brush. We want to spread the message that, hey, your oral health is a part of your systemic health.
- [45:22]
B
Dude, it's so, so fun to have you here, man. I think this message needs to be, needs to be screened from the hilltops because I, I, you know, again, like the people that reached out to me after and, and what it did for me after having Dr. Jonathan Levy on, you know, and then other people that I know listen to the pod and have my contact just shooting me notes, being like, holy smokes. Like, that changed, like, really changed the way I think about my oral health care. My oral health care routine.
- [45:49]
A
Yeah.
- [45:50]
B
Because most people just think it's a quick brush and you know, flossing every once in a while.
- [45:54]
A
Yeah.
- [45:55]
B
And I just think that like that is at the bare minimum what, what it is the fact that like what happens in our mouth and the health of our mouth could really impact all the other vital organs and systems in our body, man. Like now, now we have like another way to really take our health into our own hands.
- [46:15]
A
Exactly.
- [46:16]
B
So how can people follow along your journey? How can people find out about the fino?
- [46:20]
A
Yeah, they can go to the website. FINO CO F E N O co. We have all the social handles. Just look us up F e N O and you know, learn more about what you can do to optimize your oral health, about what we're doing with our scanner and the AI that's able to like give you insights on these conditions. There's a lot more under the hood. We're really excited to be on this journey and thankful for everybody who is Interested?
- [46:44]
B
I gotta ask you one last question. Where did the name pheno come from?
- [46:47]
A
Yeah, so it actually derived from phenotype, and then we just took the ph and we used the F and the way it was. Because our design team was like, man, everybody's mouth is so different. I was like, yeah, this is why we have to do this algorithm, because if we don't, it won't fit you and you and you, right? And it won't be effective. And like, and we were sort of talking about that and the expression of genes, like, oh, that's your phenotype. And like, oh. And then so it's just kind of stuck.
- [47:10]
B
That's cool.
- [47:10]
A
Yeah, so that's how we go with pheno.
- [47:12]
B
Dr. Kenny, thank you so much for being here, man. Thank you, ladies and gents. I'm just here to tell you, you know, this is such a cool. It's such a cool. And it's a fun tool that really does make. Make brushing teeth more efficient, optimized, and really just kind of fun. Like, it's actually. It's actually a fun piece to have in your. In your. In your bathroom and now make part of your. Your oil care routine. I have changed my whole. My whole entire oral care habitual system because again, as you know, I am just an optimization junkie. I really do like to find the best possible way to own my health because, you know, you can have a thousand problems in your life, but if your health becomes a problem, it will be the only one. It will be the only one and it'll take you out of every other area in life if your health becomes an issue. So I hope this podcast gave you a little bit of inspiration to want to start taking your oral care more seriously, because the proof is in the pudding and not enough people are talking about it. I love you guys and I appreciate you guys for listening. It would mean the world to me if you shared this podcast with someone that you think could potentially use it or want to hear about it. That, again, is the only cost I ask. And if you're feeling super generous, subscribe to the podcast. Don't miss an episode. Give us a five star rating and a review. I'd love you forever for that. I mean, I already love you forever, but that would be like the forever forever. And you know, this community means everything to me, so I hope you got something out of this. Until the next one, y' all, Peace.