Healing Through Habits | Michael Chernow on Hopeaholics Pt. 1

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Healing Through Habits | Michael Chernow on Hopeaholics Pt. 1"

Podcast: Kreatures Of Habit
Host: Michael Chernow
Date: August 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Michael Chernow, host of Kreatures of Habit, as a guest on the Hopeaholics Podcast. The conversation centers around Michael’s remarkable journey from addiction and trauma to health, success, and twenty years of sobriety. Through candid storytelling, he details the healing power of routine, the importance of community, and the unifying role of physical fitness—revealing how structured habits have been key to his transformation. The episode is rich with raw, personal anecdotes, practical habit advice, and encouragement for anyone struggling to find a way out.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Habits in Recovery

• Michael opens by reinforcing that anyone struggling can change, stressing structure, community, and a "fitness component" as essential (00:00).

  • "Anybody who's listening to this that's struggling, like, you can get out... you don't ever have to feel that way again." — Michael Chernow [00:00]

• The theme of mind-body-soul connection returns throughout, with all hosts emphasizing physical fitness as integral to staying sober and healthy (00:30, 52:19).

2. Personal Story: From Turmoil to Healing

• Rough Childhood: Michael describes growing up in an abusive, volatile New York City household with a mentally ill father who was "incredibly violent and aggressive" (20:23).

  • The family environment led to early manipulation tactics and "escape artistry" as a survival mechanism.
  • His first realization of positive family structure came from dining at a friend’s house, prompting profound longing for normalcy (20:23–21:30).

• Early Trauma and Addiction:

  • At age 12, a suicide attempt in front of his father marks an inflection point (24:11–24:25).
    • "I want this guy to see how bad he has made me feel... I just want this man to hug me." — Michael Chernow [24:25]
  • Drug use begins soon after, escalating quickly from weed to meth and selling drugs by 14.

• Life on the Streets & Consequences:

  • Violence, running with street kids, homelessness, and multiple brushes with death (30:41).
  • A harrowing story of being robbed at gunpoint, refusing to give up the combination to his safes, and narrowly escaping death (29:00–30:40).

3. Turning Points and Early Sobriety

• O.D. and "Bottom of the Barrel":

  • Michael recounts an overdose that nearly kills him, being revived in a bathtub with cold water (39:14).
  • Even after this experience, he relapses—illustrating just how powerful addiction is (39:41).

• The Final Bottom and First Steps to Recovery:

  • After being fired from the only job anchoring him to life, he’s offered a deal: sober up, start over in the restaurant as a cleaner, and he’ll be given another chance (44:02).

  • He’s guided into a strict daily routine by a sober mentor (46:20).

    • Morning Routine: Make the bed, hygiene, prayer for help (God, universe, etc.), physical movement (walk/jog), and a bowl of oatmeal [46:20].
    • “You need to start putting wins into your body as opposed to putting losses into your body.” — Michael Chernow's mentor [47:24]
    • Meal Structure: Chicken and broccoli for lunch and dinner, Muay Thai training, end-of-day gratitude prayer, “rinse and repeat.”

  • Michael sticks to this regimen obsessively, noting that Muay Thai and the surrounding community were life-saving.

4. 20 Years of Sobriety & Life After Addiction

• “I just celebrated 20 years on August 2nd. Holy sht.”* — Michael Chernow [50:37]
• Michael emphasizes that there is always a solution:
  • "...there is a f**ing solution. If you're stuck right now... how you're feeling right now, you don't ever have to feel that way again. And I know that to be true."* [51:16]
• Stresses fitness: "You gotta find a fitness component like mind, body, soul... it's saved and saves my life." [52:22]
• Observes that most of his friends from addiction days are “either sober or dead. There’s no one floating.” [54:32]

5. Building a Life Beyond Survival

• Rediscovering Passions: Michael describes how moving out of NYC, embracing rural life, hunting, and preparing his own food have given new meaning; relishing the connection to nature, family, and the food he produces (various, 05:12–14:12).

  • "It's a moment where I was like, wow, this is real... this animal is going to feed us for the next four months." — Michael Chernow [09:52]

• Career and Relationships:

  • Returning to work at Frank Restaurant, finding love, integrating fitness, entrepreneurship, and “habits over willpower” into his brand and message (59:21–60:00).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I think at heart, I'm really a hunter... I'm a hunter of life." — Michael Chernow [12:11]
• "Curiosity has been just, like, a big component to, like, the things that I’ve done over the years." — Michael Chernow [12:11]
• "I just want this man to hug me...so much so, I'm ready to just call it quits." — Michael Chernow [24:25]
• "If you don’t make that kill...then you’re not harvesting that season." — Co-host [17:14] (on responsibility in hunting)
• "There’s not like a maybe a solution. There is a fucking solution." — Michael Chernow [51:16]
• "All of my friends from my using days are either sober or dead." — Michael Chernow [54:32]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00] — Opening message of hope and the importance of habit and fitness
• [20:23] — Michael’s early story: family abuse, survival, and drug onset
• [24:11] — Suicide attempt and intervention by school/child services
• [29:00] — Armed robbery and realization of life’s danger
• [39:14] — Near-fatal overdose and moment of reflection
• [44:02] — Fired from job, offered last-chance sobriety plan
• [46:20–47:24] — Detailed daily sober routine from Michael’s mentor
• [50:37] — Marking 20 years of sobriety
• [51:16–52:22] — Refrain: There IS a solution, it’s habits, community, fitness
• [54:32] — Consequence: Friends are “either sober or dead”
• [59:21] — Quitting smoking as another important habit change

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Closing Tone and Takeaways

Michael’s storytelling is unapologetically raw—layered with dark humor, vulnerability, and an undeniable optimism. He disarms listeners by owning his darkest moments, yet never glamorizing them. The through-line is clear: profound change is possible, but it’s built on actionable routines, openness, physical movement, community, and the humility to ask for help. This episode is especially poignant for those struggling with addiction, seeking hope, or looking for models of radical habit change and resilience.

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Final Encouragement

"Anybody who's listening to this that's struggling... you can get out. The beauty of this thing is, how you're feeling right now, you don't ever have to feel that way again. And I know that to be true."
— Michael Chernow [00:00, 51:16]

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This summary covers the core content of the episode, capturing Michael Chernow’s central messages, turning points, actionable habits, and words of encouragement for anyone in pursuit of change.

Transcript

[Michael Chernow]

I'm just here to tell you, anybody who's listening to this that's struggling, like, you can get out, like, the beauty of this thing is, like, how you're feeling right now, you don't ever have to feel that way again. And I know that to be true. You guys know that to be true, right? Like, I just didn't think that it was possible for me. And then I had structure and I had community and then the piece that I think is so crucial, it doesn't matter how old you are, what gender you are, how far gone you are, you gotta find a fitness component like mind, body, soul.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

We're all about that part too.

[Michael Chernow]

Like, it's saved and saves my life.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

I'm Michael Chernow and this is the.

[Michael Chernow]

Creatures of Habit podcast.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

Our habits will make us or break us. It's just that simple. I've lived on both sides of the tracks and have learned that the decisions we make on a consistent basis truly define who we are as human beings. On this show, I will be interviewing some of the most inspiring motor and high performing humans I've encountered to share their daily habits, routines and rituals that help them stay on top of their game and ultimately happy. So sit back, relax and pay attention because what you hear over the next 30 to 45 minutes could potentially change your life.

[Michael Chernow]

Let's go.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Michael. Welcome to the hopeaholics podcast.

[Michael Chernow]

Thanks for having me.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yes, unfortunately, you're probably. Your cortisol level has spiked considering you came from Los Angeles.

[Michael Chernow]

I think my cortisol is definitely out of like, it's like at a nice high.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

High place.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

You know, I mean, was it, was the traffic bad?

[Michael Chernow]

Oh yeah, the traffic was miserable. Getting out of la and then as soon as I got some like roadway, I was doing like 98.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Which is, I mean, that's the other. That's the thing. You can, you can either drive really fast on our freeways around here.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

You're in stop and go.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, totally.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

The stop and go never makes any sense.

[Michael Chernow]

Well, I was actually pretty surprised that like I was doing like 80 and I was like, cars were like. And I'm like this, I'm going for it, you know, and I just like put it down and it was pretty awesome the whole way.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

That's, that's how we drive out here. I, I was in. She, she's, she's lives in Texas, but I was, My son's at Baylor and Texas and when you fly into Dallas, it's pretty far. Drive to Waco, you know, it's a. It's a. It's a solid hour 45.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

And I always get like, you know, just like a, a six banger car. But man, people drive crazy in Texas. Like, like people. There's like regular drivers that just drive regular speed and they're always kind of like scattered, right. But then there's everybody else that drives crazy and they're just like voom. And it's like swerving in and out. So I'm like driving like the people that drive crazy. Cuz that's just how I would rather drive than drive slow. And I'm in like some rental car that's got like I always feel like I'm in a golf cart cuz I drive like a, you know, like a Denali.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

A Tahoe.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. I, I live. I. So I moved out of New York City in the beginning of the pandemic and smart in like 2012. I bought a sick property 2 1/2 hours north of New York City. Like big piece of land and we would use it on the weekends. And in 2012 there was, you know, there was nobody from New York City up there. It was just. I was just like, Donna, like to my wife, let's get the, let's get a spot that's like just rural, super out of the way. Because she basically shook me one day and was. And I was building my restaurant sort of world. And she was like, I love you a lot. And I was like, I love you too. And she was like, I'm just gonna let you know that this shit is not sustainable. Like it is just not sustainable the way, the amount you. I don't. She was like, I don't even know you. And I was like, are you saying like you're like thinking about. And she's like, no, but I'm just telling you that like this is not sustainable. We can't build a long term relationship if this is what it's going to be. Because I'm alone all the time. And I was like, you're right. And we need to get me out of New York City. Like because I was. I'm such an alcoholic and an addict and like at that point in my life I was just building my first business. And so I just dove deep into business hard. You know, I had no idea what I was doing. And I just thought like, okay, I don't know what I'm doing. So as long as I'm there all the time, sure, I'll figure it out or it'll at least look like I Know what I'm doing, you know, Right. And it was just the wrong approach. But I do think kind of like the approach a lot of young entrepreneurs take, where it's just like, you don't understand how to be efficient with your time.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, sure.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, so you just. You just, like you're there all day, all night.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

Just in it, you know. And so we bought this house upstate, and it was like an absolute game changer for our relationship. But when the pandemic hit, we decided that we were just gonna pack up Brooklyn and just go move up there. And I never thought, you know, that I would be like a country bumpkin. I just didn't know I had it in me, you know?

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

But I was very wrong. Like, I love it there. I love it there. And I would never move back down to New York City unless, you know, maybe in my 60s, you know, like. But it's very slow paced, man. Nobody's driving fast. It's just like 55 on the Taconic, and, like, you're. If you're going 60, like, you run a good chance of getting pulled over.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

That's kind of like Jonathan and myself, we live in Texas and it's the same thing. There's like a. A road to get to our place, and 55 is like the speed limit. And if you're going above that, you're for sure you're asking to get pulled over 100%. And once you turn off of that, it's, you know, you're in, you know, kind of rural roads and it's country life.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, country. I mean, I. I just didn't think that it was me. I didn't. But I. You know, it's so interesting that you can. You can acclimate pretty quickly. Especially, you know, I think having a family is like a, you know, made it a lot easier for me to quickly acclimate. But now, like, I'm hooked on hunting and all sorts of that. I just, like, you know, didn't know was in me.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah, I never been hunting, but she hunts.

[Michael Chernow]

I love hunting.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

I do, too.

[Michael Chernow]

Hunting season opens in a week, and I'm just like. I got like seven cams on my property. I'm just. I got my buck. Like, I know where that is.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, we got two this season, so I wouldn't really call myself like a hunter because it's only been my third season, but. But I love it. I love it for many aspects. One, obviously, that's like the cleanest meat you could possibly get the best. I know where it is coming from. But all the other things that go into it from. You're really like, out in nature and it's the time where you really don't have. I don't. Even if I wanted to have my phone, I have my phone to take photos. Yeah. Of like wherever I'm at, but there's no service. So you have to really be locked in and present and then really enjoy all of the things that you're actually experiencing and seeing. And then obviously the camaraderie of your camp and things of that nature of who you're out there totally hunting with next year.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Next year. You're not allowed to go without a Starlink, though. I'm sorry.

[Michael Chernow]

I, you know, game changer. I had. I. Again, like, I, like, I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew I had a lot of deer on my property and I knew a lot of guys in my area were hunters.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And I was just like, that's it. I'm buying the gear, I'm getting the gun, I'm practicing. And then I just like, what I can't wait for is, you know, I wake up at 4:30 in the morning every single day at hunting season. And I get dressed super quiet so I don't wake anybody up. And then I just walk out into the woods and I've got a spot. I've got. Well, I've got two spots, but I got one main spot that's just like. There's like a bunch of downed trees that I kind of just fit right in there.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, sure.

[Michael Chernow]

And I just sit in quiet. It's crazy. It's like the only time where I feel like my brain really is like, stimulated enough by what I'm doing to shut it down and not like, obsess about the phone or.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

What's the rules in that part of New York and hunting and how, How. What's the length and how many. How much are you allowed to kill?

[Michael Chernow]

Well, typically you get. You get a tag for a buck and a doe and a bear and a bear and a bear. So you typically. A lot of. You know, I'm not a. I just. I have no interest in killing a bear. You know, I'm just not there yet. Who knows, Maybe down the road. I know a lot of hunters that, you know, do, but you get, you get a buck and then if you apply for this kind of lottery thing, they give you a doe and there's no real size, you know, like regulation. But, like, if you see a Bambi, it doesn't make sense to shoot that, you know, so I'm always, you know, I let a lot of deer go because I just know that, you know, I'm doing it for the meat. I mean, I'm doing it for the hunt, because I love the hunt, for sure. Last season, when I shot my buck, I went back to the house and I said to my wife, don't say anything. I'm doing this. And I grabbed my two boys and I brought them out with me, and I dressed the deer with them.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, wow.

[Michael Chernow]

And they sat and watched in awe, you know?

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yep.

[Michael Chernow]

I took the heart out and I, like, put it in my son's hands. And I was like, let's pray over this animal, because this animal is going to feed us for the next four months, you know? And it was just like a moment where I was like, wow, this is real. You know, this is, like. It's pretty awesome.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

It is. It's definitely something where I do feel that regardless of if you want to get into honey or not, it's a. It's an experience. I think that everybody should, especially if you eat meat, you know, should experience at least one time, because it does. It is a weird, sacred. It is.

[Michael Chernow]

Sacred components.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

It is.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

I feel like if you eat meat and I haven't. I haven't gone hunting, I'm. I'm totally down to do it. But if you. You can't really say anything bad about hunting if you eat meat. If you're a meat eater.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

I agree. I agree. If you're going to the grocery store.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

And you're buying yourself some. Some. Some cow, some ground beef.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

You go to a restaurant, you have some tacos. I mean, steak. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

No one's really giving me any for hunting. I mean, I. You know, I've posted a couple of things on Social, and, you know, there's going to be some haters out there.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Gets a little bit.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, there's going to be haters. But at the end of the day, it's like, look, I eat this meat.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

This meat is like, I'm not. I mean, I'm doing it, definitely.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Do you ever.

[Michael Chernow]

I love it.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Do you ever cook it, though? On, like, Like, So post your kill. Post your cook. Have you done that?

[Michael Chernow]

Do you do that, like, show, like, what it.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah. Like maybe you made a mistake or. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Oh, hell yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm like a trained chef.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

I was just gonna, like, get into.

[Michael Chernow]

All day, you know, and. And people are like, for Whatever reason people are scared of venison, the craziest thing about that is venison is, like, in my opinion, it is. It is the best tasting. It's lean as hell, but it has this, like, sweetness component to it that when you get a good sear on a piece of venison or you make a venison burger and you take a. You take a venison burger next to a beef burger or even. Or a bison burger.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

There's just no comparison.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

It is so good. It is so, so, so good. You know, And. And I just love the process. I love the process of it. You know, I think at heart, like, I'm really a hunter. Like, I think hunting in general, just, like, I'm a hunter of life, you know, I feel like curiosity has been just, like, a big component to, like, the things that I've done over the years. And so when I was. When I decided to take it upon myself to teach myself how to hunt.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Which is wild, by the way, I.

[Michael Chernow]

Was like, this is it.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

What did you do, YouTube it?

[Michael Chernow]

I did, yeah. Everything smart. All of it. Yeah, Everything from. From the. From the gear that I got, from the gun that I bought. The whole thing.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah, everything.

[Michael Chernow]

How to dress it. I still take. I still. When I'm dressing the deer, I've got the YouTube. I'm like, yeah, let me just make sure I'm not gonna nick this thing.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Ye. You could it up.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Like, if you. If you nick the innards, like, as you're. As you're coming up the. The. The torso.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

There's a good chance that you spoil the. The meat, you know, so you don't want to do that.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

You don't want to do that.

[Michael Chernow]

And the craziest thing is, is, like, you know, when you dress a deer and you, you know, you shoot the deer in the right place, which is basically, like right under the. The shoulder blade.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Kind of where you want to enter.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

When you dress the deer, there is no blood. If you do it right, you know, like, there'll be blood in the cavity from the wound, but, like, you don't get, like, blood everywhere.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Right.

[Michael Chernow]

It's, like, clean and, you know, it's shot.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

That's why I'm saying it's like an experience that everyone should, like, have, because it is totally not what you would think that it would be. You know, just because from. From all aspects, from the gear to the pack out to the dressing to the experience, from, like, a spiritual to all of the above. And then to be able to harvest it and then have your freezer full and then be able to prepare it and nourish your body with, like, the meat that you, like, literally physically went and got is just wild.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

What do you. What do you kill with?

[Michael Chernow]

I. I abuse a rifle, which I bought a new rifle last year, and it's called a tactica. It's. Gosh, I'm spacing the name of the actual model, but it was. It was highly recommended. I was shooting A. A Remington 308.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Okay.

[Michael Chernow]

And so now the new gun that I have is a. I think it's a. It's a. I think it's a.280. And it's just a powerful, unbelievably precise gun in comparison to the Remington that I had. The Remington was like. My wife actually bought me that gun.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Okay.

[Michael Chernow]

And it's a beautiful gun, but this thing is just, like. It's a totally different experience. Like, when I sight that gun in, I have to make very few adjustments. You know, it's just so, so, so.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Which is another component of hunting, too, is like, your sights. Like, yes, you can buy your gun, but then if you don't have your optic that has the sight to see what you're shooting, you know, good luck. Good luck. But that was another learning leg curve that my husband and I, you know, had the process of going through. I think I shot my first Elk with a.300 win Mag Begara. And then I went second season, I used the.6.5 PRC from Christensen Arms. And then this season, I did Christensen Arms 301Mag. 301Mag is definitely a nice, powerful round that I feel is. And then Christensen is pretty sick. It's just. And it's so light because all those things are huge components when you're out hiking and putting in some miles. Totally is. I'm carrying that rifle. So if it's really heavy and you're packing all the things, it does make a big significant difference from your pack out to just the physicality that is required.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. My new gun is also, like, insanely light. It is insanely light. It's weird. It's weird how bad it is, because when I put it up to my shoulder, I'm like, oh, my gosh, this thing is super duper light.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

You know, and then if you add, like, a suppressor component to it, Money. Like, the suppressor we used this year was from Alley Cat. So shout out to them, because that thing, not only is it light, but I didn't even shoot with Ears on, like, nothing.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

We will now take a commercial break.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah, I know, right?

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Alley cat.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Alley cap suppressor. For real. I know. Sorry, sorry. It's exciting. It's like, fun.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

She literally is sponsored by Christiansen.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah, so. So, like, that's true.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

But it's doing a commercial break.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

It's fun because you, you. I think people have a misconception of one. It's not like, like, you have social media where you're just posting, like, the animal and it's like, oh, my gosh, trophy. It's really not about that. It's like so much more that is required for you to even get that animal. And you can only have one tag. So like, and also, too, if you have your one tag and say that I wound the animal, I'm done. I don't get to go shoot a. Whatever. I see. It's like, if you don't make that kill on that specific animal, then. Then you're not harvesting that season and you.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm dying to go elk hunting. That is a dream. It's a dream of mine. I haven't. I haven't gone elk hunting, and I just know that that's a totally different beast. Oh, you know, like, I'm glad to do it.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

It's a. It's the next one, I think, on the. On the list is to do one with a bow. That's another animal because you're the amount. The how close you are to these, like, majestical creatures because they are. Once you looking at them and your binos and everything is nuts.

[Michael Chernow]

Do you shoot both? Now?

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

I got. I learned from Cam Haynes, so shout out to him and Wayne from the Bo Rack Savages and been hunting forever. So I think I learned from, like, the best. So that way I wouldn't make any. You don't learn any bad habits. However, I have not practiced nearly enough to feel confident or comfortable enough to go take, you know, try a bow. Because you're so close to the animal that I'm like, tripping. Like, I'm not doing it until I feel super dialed. And because you're 20 yards, like, and then your adrenaline in your heart and like, all the things that actually come up come about when you're about to make, you know, take the shot or with the bow. So not. Not remotely there yet.

[Michael Chernow]

But I haven't got. I just bought a Hoyt.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, yeah. And I'm like, shout out to Hoyt.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

I mean, this is just the pot. Oh, this is the Hoboholics, not a hunting podcast. But you Know.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Are you gonna try to shoot a bear with one? Yeah. Like can Hames? Yeah, this does bears.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

He does. He recommended my first bow to be a bear, but we're just not there yet. I'm one. I'm like terrified of bears. And you gotta crawl before you can walk.

[Michael Chernow]

So we're still promising this year. I kind of. I bought the bow with the commitment. Like before walking into the, to the store, I was like, all right, dude, if you're gonna go buy a bow, you're not gonna take that bow out for at least a year. And that. And not. That's not like, oh yeah, half ass year. That's a year where you're putting time on the bow at least three days a week.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Where you, you are just comfortable with that thing.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Totally.

[Michael Chernow]

And you know when you go out, you're. You're not like, oh, am I going to. Yeah, hit this thing?

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

You know, you're super. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

I think a year is probably the minimum amount of time like focused, I think be able to go for it.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

I think so a full like committed and dialed and, and doing the reps and the practice and all the things. But wait, let's circle back into like, okay, you're, I mean, chef restaurant to you be even becoming sober. All of the things we want to know it all. So how did your, how did your journey into actually realizing that you had a problem to begin with?

[Michael Chernow]

So I'll just bring it back. I mean, I grew up in New York City and kind of in the, you know, the center of it all really. You know, when I was born in 1980 and I didn't really experience much of New York city in the 80s because I was a little kid and. But I had a pretty rough and tumble household. My father was. He was mentally ill, physically ill and incredibly violent and aggressive and abusive. And you know, I watched my. We lived in a small apartment, you know, 600 square foot apartment. And my father was. Unfortunately, as his mental illness evolved, he became a hoarder. So it was like really difficult in the, in the apartment. And as I got older, you know, I mean the, the violence didn't really start until I was probably 11 or so with my dad. But like the verbal and the fear that I had for him started really young. And so that kind of propelled me to want it, to want to become an escape artist like little Houdini, every opportunity I could. And so escaping for me started with really going to friends houses and sleeping over. And I remember pretty clearly there was this kid, Ross Delafield who I grew up with, who was like, kind of one of my best friends in the early elementary school. And he invited me over to his house and I stayed for dinner. And his family sat around a table to eat dinner together. And my family had never done that. I'd never sat around the table to have dinner. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is like, this feels like the TV shows, you know what I mean? I was like, this actually happens. And I was like, I really like this. And I have to be able to convince Ross's parents to like me. Like, I gotta. I've gotta figure out how to make them like me so I can be here as often as possible. And that's kind of where my manipulation began in my life. That's when I knew that I was like, having that thought. I didn't know it at the time, of course, but now reflecting back on it like that is where my master manipulation skill set started in trying to make my friends, parents really like me. So I was. I would chameleon myself into. Into these situations to really have the ability to. To progress and get what I wanted, you know. And so because my mother was a secretary, my father was basically on permanent disability and totally just not interested in being a part of anything. My mom worked until seven every night and I was put into after school programs. And so sport was like what I did. And I was kind like this natural athlete. And I dove deep into sports in New York City, which is, you know, there's not like crazy sports programs there, right? Like, you're not playing football in New York City. But, you know, I got into street hockey, I got into soccer, but I really excelled at hockey. And I was always kind of the young kid and I always went to the park, like, you know, as often as I could to play, which is almost every day into the dark, you know, into as it got dark. And those kids were really up to no good, you know, even though we all played hockey together and this thing, like, they were just up to no good. So I was. I was kind of influenced by these older kids and I was probably like 10, 11, and things just got worse and worse in my house. And so before I. I met drugs and alcohol, I met suicidal ideation, you know, and like, I would think about it, but I never. I just didn't have the balls to like, do anything until one day where my father. I was 12 and my father and I got into a pretty bad battle and I was like, that's it. I'm going to show this. You know? Can I curse on this?

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Okay.

[Michael Chernow]

I was just like, I'm going to show him how badly he's hurting me. And I grabbed a scissor and I said, you know, come into my bedroom. Do you want to be like? You know, I was like, fuck you. Come into my bedroom. And he came into the bedroom, and right in front of him, I just went, boom.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, shit.

[Michael Chernow]

And I just sliced my wrists open. And I think for me, it wasn't like, I want to die. For me, it was, I just want this man to hug me. I want this guy to see how bad he has made me feel about myself. So much so that I'm, like, ready to just call it quits. And I don't think my father had. And I'll talk about later. I mean, I've had, like. I've had some crazy experiences with my father after he died, but I don't think my father had the tools to understand that. Like, I think he just. So he just came over and just kicked the shit out of me. And. And so I went to school the next day. They saw that I had, you know, I didn't go deep enough to shoot myself, but they saw that I had, you know, bandages around my wrists. And I was already in with the social workers at this point, you know, and so they were like, what happened? And I was like, if I tell them, I know it's going to get bad, you know, But I was just like, fuck it, I'm just going to tell him. I was like, I cut my wrist last night in front of my father, and he kicked the shit out of me. And they immediately called Child services. And so Child Services got involved, and, you know, they showed up in my house, and my sister and I were sharing a bedroom in super tight quarters. I was 12, she was 13. And child services were like, this can't happen. Kids at this age of opposite sex can't share a small, tiny bedroom like this. And so my mother and father were like, all right, well, we're going to put you on the couch. And I was like, I mean, I barely sleep here anyway. Like, I'm happy to tell the child services that, but you can kind of kiss me goodbye at this point, you know? And that's when I had smoked weed for the first time. And when I did that, I was like, oh, my God, this is it. I don't need to hide in hockey. I don't need to go anywhere. I figured it out. I licked it. I figured it out. I'm just gonna Stay high all the time. And very quickly that weed escalated to psychedelics, psychedelics escalated to crystal meth. And by the time I was 14 years old, I was a full fledged addict. And it wasn't like any one specific thing. It was everything. Anything. I was not afraid, you know, I was just not afraid. And. And at this point, every time I was home, my father and I would get into a brutal fist fight for the most part. And I had basically resonated that, like, I hated this man and I don't give a fuck, and they can't do anything to keep me down. Like, I'm like, I don't remember saying I'm gonna rebel, but it was basically just like, you have no idea what you guys created, you know, and my mother, who I love and I know loves me, she was a loving woman, but she was abused. She was. She was diagnosed with something called abused wife syndrome. Because my father was very abusive towards her as well. She just didn't. She wasn't able to. To cope. She literally told me that she thought he was going to kill her if she left. And so it just got real ugly. And at 15 years old, we. We got into another banger. And the neighbor called the cops. Cops shows up. And child services, anytime the cops were called to my house, child services were right behind them. And child services, you know, they. My mother had found a lot of. I was selling drugs at that point. My mother found a bunch of drugs in my bedroom. And my father used that as an excuse when the cops showed up to say, take that kid away. He's a drug addict, he's a drug dealer, he's a criminal. Like, get him out of this house. Get him out. We want him out. And my mother was crying, I was crying. Child services were like, if you don't take this kid out of here or take you, you know, have him leave. We're taking him to foster care now. And I heard that and I was like, foster care? In my head, I was like, you know, this is going to be a catch me if you can kind of situation. Like, I'm out, I'm done. Like, I'm not dealing with this. And that was it. You know, I, I like packed my. And I just left and I was. And I never moved back in. And I was just like this crazy New York City street kid. You know, like, if you've ever seen that movie, Kids, like, that was kind of like what it was like for me. And I got into a lot of trouble and I. The, you know, like the kind of party drugs very quickly became just alcohol and cocaine and then alcohol and crack and. And then when that got really dark, I was in. I introduced pills. And when I was like 19 years old, I was living in. I was living in an apartment in Lower east side. And I was in over my head with the amount of, you know, drugs I was moving and selling. And these guys came into my apartment, put a gun in my mouth, duct tape, pistol whipped me, threw me in the bathtub, you know, duct taped my mouth, duct tape my arms, my feet. And it was three dudes. And I was like, that's it. These dudes are gonna. These dudes are gonna murk me. Like, I was like, you know, because there were two safes that were bolted into the ground in the apartment in two different closets, and they were like, give us the combinations to the safes. And I just knew that if they got into those safes, I was gonna. I was dead anyway, you know? Cause there was just too much product in there for me to come back from. And the guys who owned the product were just not guys, you know, I wanted to really fuck with. And, you know, so I wasn't. I wasn't giving them the combination to the safe. And I was like, they're gonna. They're gonna probably, this is gonna go down in a really bad way. But then I just had this thought and I was like, it's a Friday. It's a Friday afternoon at 4:00'. Clock. Like, these guys aren't gonna shoot me, you know? And then luckily my roommate, like, came into the apartment and within 30 seconds they had him yoked up. But at that point, I think they were just scared and they kind of just like, they beat it. But that was just a moment for me where I was like, oh, my God, I've really got to move out of this neighborhood. You know what I mean?

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

You aren't looking good.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. I was like, I gotta move out of this neighborhood. I wasn't like, oh, my God. Like, what are you? Like this. You created this, Mike. You know, like, you created this. This is your fucking problem. And so that didn't stop me. So I moved to la. I was like, all right, I'm gonna move to la, you know, and I'm gonna try to get my shit together in la. I went to one AA meeting out here, locked eyes with this girl in the AA meeting, and her and I were just off to the races, you know, and. And I. And I got into a lot of. A lot of trouble here in LA, you know.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

I just like, really was this like 20? Were you 20 yet? This is like 1999.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Where was your, what about your sister during all of this?

[Michael Chernow]

So interestingly, my sister witnessed all this. My sister took some of the heat, but very little in comparison to me. Like, my father was not nice, you know, but he did not like, he never raised a hand to my sister, you know, my father took a lot of his anger out on me, you.

[Podcast Narrator/Announcer]

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[Michael Chernow]

Back to the pod. Interestingly, I, you know, I'm in therapy and I'm starting EMDR therapy.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Okay.

[Michael Chernow]

And it's hard because I feel like I've disassociated a lot from those days in my life, even from a young kid. Like I have, I have like, you know, little blanks and blocks of memory but not clear. And so this. So the therapist was like, let's, let's try to recall like a really, really, really, really bad moment in your life and let's bring it back. And I was able to pull off a few of them. And then she asked me the same question after I was like, I'm just having a hard time. Like, I just can't, like, lock into a specific memory outside of, like, the time that the cops came and the child services came. And I remember sitting on, being on the floor, like, with my head in my hands, and I was like, would you mind if we call my sister to just get her on here and see if she can remember some of this stuff? And interestingly enough, my sister disassociated too. She can't remember a lot. You know, she was like, I, I know that he was very rarely home, and when he was home, it was all chaos. It was all hell broke loose and my father and him would just battle. But anyway, I moved to LA and, you know, I got, I wrecked a motorcycle, wrecked two cars. Just, you know, just was not good for me. Came back to New York for Christmas and my father died on that trip. Yeah, he was young and he just, you know, he was just an unhealthy dude and, and he died on Christmas Eve. He had a massive seizure and we took him to the hospital. He never came out. And so that for me was like just the most epic excuse to just go absolute ham. And I never went back to la. I literally left. I mean, it wasn't anything fancy, but I had a Honda crv. I left the Honda. I left my, my clothes. I just did not come back, you know, I just did not come back. And at that point, I was only sleeping on couches anyway. So.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

How old were you at that time?

[Michael Chernow]

20. Okay, I was 20.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

So you lost your dad at 20?

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. And. And so at that point, I was back in New York. I, you know, I began to get very violent and I began to get, like, the anger, like, it had sort of come to a tipping point for me where I just really, it was like I hated myself so much I couldn't get out. I knew I had a problem. I knew, I knew about sobriety, but I didn't know it was possible for me. I just didn't think it was possible for me because I'm this unique, right?

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah, Terminally unique, right?

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. Like, it's just, it's not. Can't, can't help me.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah, you don't know what I've been through.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, you got no idea.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

You have no clue.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

So.

[Michael Chernow]

I, I, I just took it to the next level, you know, I took it to the next level and I was hanging out with a lot of bad kids and I was, you know, I was, I was going on runs for days and, you know, Just like. I mean, I.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Just.

[Michael Chernow]

Fully transparent. Like, my piss was. Was brown. My. Was water. I hadn't taken a solid in years. Like, literally, I remember saying that to myself. I'd be like, I can't even believe. Like, my body is. Is just rotting.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

I was tiptoeing around my apartment when nobody was home, you know, just crack.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Still your drug of choice at this time.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. So it was.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

It was.

[Michael Chernow]

I mean, it was really everything but, like, you know, we would. We started. We started cooking it, and then I got to a point where I was just like, I'm gonna fucking waste my time with this shit. I'm just gonna start buying it. And there was a kid named Jumanji in the city, and he would show up and he had, you know, 20 crack rocks in his. In between his lips and his teeth. And, you know, I would just be like, give them all to me, you know? And somehow, some way, I. I had always had a job in a restaurant. Like, I kept a job in a restaurant because my superhuman power in life is connecting with human beings like that is. And I know that today, like, that is my strength. I'm. I am so, like, I am deeply passionate about this, what we're doing right here.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

This is it for me. You know, I could do this shit all day. And. And I never knew that that was, like, a skill set, but come to find out now that, like, it really is, you know? And so in the restaurant world, I had that. And, you know, everybody knew that. I was like, you know, Mikey the bartender who was just like, you want to party? You come see this dude, you know? And anyway, long story short, I got into pills, and then those pills turned into heroin. And I shacked up with this really beautiful woman who was also into heroin. And we were in her apartment, or not in her apartment. I mean, we were in her boyfriend's apartment and shacked up with a girl. Yeah, that's what he said. And we were in her boyfriend's apartment, and we were. We were, you know, using pretty much only heroin at that point. And I remember kind of sitting on the edge of the bed. It was. I was kind of, like, sitting on the edge of the bed like this. And I was naked, and there was a mirror on the headboard. And I was, like, sitting there, and I was so high, and I looked over to the right, and I saw my reflection in the mirror. And from my head to my toes, my skin was white. Like your shirt. Like, white. Like paper.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yep.

[Michael Chernow]

And I was like, oh, my God, this Is. Whoa, that's scary. Like, I've never experienced that. Like, I looked down at my arms and I was like, oh, my God. Like, my tattoos were, like, so bright because everything was white and it was. And there was no blood on the surface of my skin. And I got terrified, and I, like, jumped up and I stood up and then, boom, face down, like, out. And I OD'd.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, shit.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, I OD'd. And I remember kind of like, coming to and being like, you know, I don't want to say her name, but I was like, hey, call the ambulance. I'm dying. And she was terrified. So she didn't want to call the ambulance because she's like, oh, my God, this dude's gonna die in the house. You know? Like, this isn't. This is my boyfriend's house. Like, you know, I'm sure all the shit was going through her mind. So she dragged me into the bathroom and. And she put me in the bathtub on my back and turned on the cold water. And the cold water. I can feel it now, like, the cold water hitting me in the chest from the shower. And she told me that I was in there for, like, 20 minutes. I mean, it felt like 20 years, you know, because I. I mean, I guess I died, you know, and was, like, at the very, very edge of life. And eventually didn't die and came to. And she slowly helped me get back into that bed, and I got under the covers, and my body was convulsing. But after about three hours, I felt okay, you know, And I'm. I feel. I'm so lucky, you know, that. That didn't take me out. If. If I was using, like, if I was using today, like, I was using, then I'd be. I would have been dead. Like, with fentanyl, I mean, you know, it's gone, gone, gone. No, there's no chance. I had no chance. No chance. So anyway, I remember leaving that apartment, and it was still, like, early evening, and it was late July of 2004. And I remember walking west on 13th street from Avenue B, and I said, dude, you've done it. Like, you are at the bottom of the barrel. You hate your life. You have so much to offer, and this is what you've done. You just fucking died. You have to put a stop to this. You have to figure out a way it has to happen. Today's the fucking day. Like, you gotta just change. And then four hours later, I was using, and I just couldn't do it. I couldn't figure. I Couldn't. I didn't know. You know, I just, like. I just couldn't do it. And that's when I kind of made a decision where I was like, okay, this is how I'm gonna die. Let's, like, make it go quick, you know? And that two weeks before I got sober was, like, very scary, you know? Very scary. I got 86 from every single bar south of Houston, north of Delancey, east of Allen, and west of Essex. So I was going into bars wanting to kill people, you know, and. And fighting all the. All the. Just. Just crazy person, you know, because I went from. It wasn't like, okay, I'm just using heroin now. It was just like, I'm gonna do everything, you know? And I was drinking and I was using, smoking crack and meth and heroin and pills, and it was just like a. It was just, you know, crazy anyway. It was not like any other. You know, there was nothing, like, special about this night. But it was a Monday morning, and we were on my rooftop in the East Village. I was with two dudes who I typically would run with, and we were probably up for 48 hours or so. And they were like, all right, Mike, we're calling it, man. It's over. We're going home. And I was like, peace. You know, I'm not. You know, I'm still. I've got drugs, and I've got, you know, like, probably warm beer, warm vodka in my room. And I went downstairs to my apartment, and I remember closing my bedroom door and locking it, and there was a wall mirror right behind my bedroom door, and it was a mirror experience again, you know? And I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror, and I just, like, walked over to the mirror for some reason, and I made eye contact with myself. And I can't remember ever doing that. You know, I do that a lot now. It's like, a powerful thing to do, but at that point, I don't remember ever doing that. And I made eye contact with myself, and I was just like, I fucking hate you. You should jump. You should. Like, you've been trying to end it like you live on the sixth floor. Like, you should just fucking do it, dude. And then I blacked out. You know, I blacked out, and I woke up 16 hours later. I slept through work, and I told my. I called my boss, and I was like, I'm so sorry, Frank. And he was like, mikey, come down to the restaurant, you know, And I went down, and they were like, look, man, everybody knows you're dying. Like, everybody, you know, I mean, you know, you're not doing a good job of keeping it a secret anymore. And I can't, I can't have you here, man. Like, I can't. I just. And my job was the only thing that was like, tethering me to life, you know. And he was like, I just can't have you here. Like, you got to get your. Together, you're young, you know, you've got a long life ahead of you, but the way you're going, you know, it's gonna be, it's gonna end soon and bad. And I don't want to do it on my, on my watch. So I gotta go. And I literally started crying and I begged him for my job. And I was like, please, you know, I. I'll do anything. It's the one thing that I have. And he was like, look, man, if you get sober, you can come to the restaurant at 8 o' clock in the morning and you can clean with the porters. If I find out you have a single drink or a single drug, you're out. And I'll. And I'll find out, you know, because at that point, I wasn't good at hiding it, you know. And that was it. That was the last day I drank. And I made a phone call to a friend who was like an older sister to me, who used to take me in, you know, in my teens when I was really strung out. And she would just, you know, let me crash on her couch. And she would always tell me, I didn't know that she was sober, but she would always tell me, like, there's a, there's a way out of this, you know, I know you're young, but there's a way out of this. And I called her, I called Karen. And then she introduced me to her boyfriend who I had never met, but he was like 10 years older than me, covered in tattoos, sober as. And like living this dope life. And I just didn't know that that was a real thing. Like, I just thought, you know, I was like, all right, I'm gonna get sober. My life is gonna suck. You know, Like, I'm like, I'm so used to living this fast and fast paced, like, just totally, you know, just gnarly life where nothing good happened. Like, nothing good happened. And for some weird reason I had an ego about it, you know, like, deeply insecure, but this, this, like puffed up, like so much so that I, you know, had no problem just punching people in the face, you know, and so I, I. This dude showed up and he, he listened to me. He didn't say a word. He was just like, just talk to me, man. And this tough dude, I'm like, this guy wants to hear me talk to him about my. And I sat and I spoke to him.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

We.

[Michael Chernow]

He listened to me for like four hours. And I'm sure I lied my ass off about everything in my life, you know, I'm sure I told him all sorts of weird, but he was like, listen, dude, I'm not going to chase you. I know that I can help you. I'm going to write this thing for you, and I suggest you take the suggestions, you know, I suggest you dive into this thing, because if you do, I promise with all my heart guarantee that in not a short period and not a long period of time, you're going to feel not only different, but good. And I was like, all right, tell me what to do, man. You know? He was like, I want you to wake up as early as you can in the morning, and as soon as you get out, get up, I want you to turn around and make your bed. As soon as you make your bed, I want you to go into the bathroom, take a piss, wash your face, brush your teeth, and actually put on your contact lenses. Because I was known to, like, not wear my contacts and be walking around blind, you know, like, putting on my contacts or like, taking them out before bed was like a big deal for me. And then he goes, as soon as you're done with that, I want you to drop down on your knees and ask God for help. And I don't give a if you believe in God, you don't believe in God, Call it God, call it universe, call it whatever you want. But the brass tacks is you don't know how to ask for help because your decision making has gotten you here with me. So I want, I want you to start asking for help first thing in the morning. And all you have to know is you're not it. That's it. And then right when you're done with that, I want you to put on a pair of sneakers and get out of your house. And I want you to take a walk or take a jog, if you can take a walk. It could be a block, it could be five blocks, could be 10 miles. But I just want you to move your body right away. And then when you get home, I want you to make yourself a bowl of oatmeal. A big fat bowl of oatmeal. And you can add whatever you want to it. You can make it taste any way you want. But oatmeal is easy. It's accessible, it's inexpensive. You can make it taste good, and it's healthy. And you need to start putting wins into your body as opposed to putting losses into your body, which is what you've been doing. So I'm gonna give you that, like, nutritional win in the morning. And then right when you're done with that, you're gonna head to this meeting, and you're gonna sit in the front row and you're gonna introduce yourself, and you're gonna tell them why you're there. And that sounds like this. My name is Michael Chernow. I'm an alcoholic. And, you know, and that was basically it. And then. And then he said. And then after you do that, you're not gonna say a fucking word. You're just gonna sit and listen, and you're gonna grin and bear through it. And then when you're done with that, you're gonna meet me at the Muay Thai gym, and I'm gonna teach you about discipline and humility and commitment. And. And he said, I'm gonna teach you how to be a man, and I'm also gonna teach you how to get back up no matter what. And so we're gonna train for two hours there, and then right when we're done with training, you're gonna eat chicken and broccoli. And you can get it from the Chinese store, the Chinese restaurant, you can get it from. You know, eventually you'll start cooking it yourself. But, like, chicken and broccoli is what I want you to eat for lunch. And then you're going to take a nap. I'm going to go to work and have chicken and broccoli again. And that sounds like my diet. Yeah. Have chicken and broccoli again and go to bed as early as possible. And right before you get into bed, you're going to drop down on your knees and you say, thank you for keeping me sober, and rinse and repeat. That's your life.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

You weren't allowed any rice with that broccoli?

[Michael Chernow]

No, no. He was just like, chicken and broccoli. And. And so, you know, that was the beginning of my journey. And very quickly, for whatever reason, I locked in on Muay Thai. And I'm sure it had something to do with the fact that I really, you know, that was like, a comfortable thing for me to, you know, get into because of what I was doing in the street.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And I. Within 90 days, you know, I had Such a good community around me. I feel blessed. You know, I really had a couple of. I had a couple of angels, Marcus and Gavin, these two guys that just sort of, like, came to the rescue. They were like, all right, dude, we're gonna wing this kid. And my life changed, you know?

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

How old were you right there?

[Michael Chernow]

23.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

23?

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. I was 23.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Have you been sober ever since?

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Wow.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, So I just celebrated 20 years on August 2nd. Holy. Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Did you have us both on the camera or what? The man. Like, like what?

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, my gosh. That was crazy.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

That's incredible.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

We obviously do a shit ton of podcasts.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, that was good. That was like a double and perfect unison.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

I know, right? We're gonna have to do a replay on that one.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah, you might have to. Is there any way you can make that happen? That's a good reel.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

That's hilarious. That's good for you. No slips, no falls, nothing.

[Michael Chernow]

No.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Wow.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. And honestly. So, like, anybody who's listening, right, Like, I think the. The. The crux of the situation is that there's a. There's. There's not like a maybe a solution. There is a fucking solution. There is an absolute solution. Like, if you're stuck right now and you're like. You think that you're just. You're. This one, this one, you know, like, unique snowflake that just fucking. You know, all the sober people are just, like. You know, they're the lucky ones. Like, I'm just here to tell you, anybody who's listening to this that's struggling, like, you can get out, like, the beauty of this thing is, like, how you're feeling right now, you don't ever have to feel that way again. And I know that to be true. You guys know that to be true, right? Like, I just didn't think that it was possible for me. And then I had structure and I had community. And then the piece that I think is so crucial, it doesn't matter how old you are, what gender you are, how far gone you are, you gotta find a fitness component.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Like, my own body, soul.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

We're all about that part too.

[Michael Chernow]

Like, it saved and saves my life.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

I will say this part about the fitness component, because what happened with me is I. I got sober at 22. The first time I had had a few slips and falls, I really got into fitness. Really into fitness. I forgot about the emotional getting rid of the. The. The. The baggage part. I did steps 1, 2, and 3. Thought I was good. I didn't. I didn't need to. I didn't need to do that step. Four and five for me.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Seven or eight or nine, 10, 11, 12.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

One, two and three. I'm good.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah, it's the one, two, three step.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Process. I remember working out, and my. My house manager at the sober living, and I was at. He was like. He was like, you're just working on the body, dude. That's all you're doing. He's like. And. And you know what? He was right. He was right. And I. I stumbled and I fell a few times. But thank God for the rooms, man. Thank God that I stayed sober the first time for three years. And what I learned from that experience was that there was a different way to live. And when I went out, the misery was refunded in full. The. The first few times. I didn't stay out that long. And then I got sober and did the same damn thing and did it for nine years. Built a life beyond my wildest dream during that nine years. And then. And then slipped and fell and I. I almost didn't make it back. You know, like, God is. Is not done with me. And had. Like you said, had I been you, had fentanyl been out, I would have been done. So I'm primarily a. A meth addict. But, you know, I like Valium, and if Valium's not around, I'll take any benzo, and if any benzo is not around, I'll do a shot of heroin, you know, but, like, you can't even. You can't even find heroin out here in California. Everything's fentanyl. And if I wanted to buy a Valium or any benzo off the street, it ain't going to be a volume, it's going to be fentanyl. It's going to look like Valium. It's not going to be Valium.

[Michael Chernow]

Well, I'll put it this way. All of my friends from my using days.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Are either sober or dead or dead.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

All of them.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

All of them.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

There's no. There's no one floating like they're all sober or dead or dead.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

What about you? What about your boss that gave you the really nudge?

[Michael Chernow]

He's definitely not sober, but, you know, somehow that guy's been able to, like, manage his life. Like, he parties, but, you know, he never took it to the levels that I did. I love that man, for sure. I'm forever indebted to him.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Do you still have contact with him at all?

[Michael Chernow]

Oh, yeah, totally. So. So look here's the funny part, right? So. So I get sober and I dive deep into this Muay Thai thing, right? And I'm at this point and then eight months into sobriety, so I move. So the first three months, I'm like, holy. Like, my life changes quick, right? Like, my body adapts. I feel good. I'm. I'm like. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I'm getting.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Jacked. Yeah, this is crazy. And it just gave me this confidence, right? And so I'm like, I'm moving to LA again. I'm gonna go chase this acting thing. And everybody was like, dude, be easy, bro.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, be easy. And I was like, I got this, moved to LA and it rained for like 90 days straight in LA, and I was lonely as fuck. I remember I was at a meeting at a. I think it was log cabin or something like that.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And there was this dude there that was like some famous person's son who just had like a real. Just. I just. He just rubbed me the wrong way. And I started to feel that kid, you know, that couldn't control his temper show up. And he, like, walked towards me and it was a packed house. And then he just stopped in front of me and just turned his back and stood right with his back right in my face and I just went off and it was not good. And I left. I walked out of there and this dude Jimmy came after me. And I'd never met this dude, but he was like, yo, dude, it's okay. Everybody hates that dude. Like, it's all right. Don't beat yourself up, man. You know, And. And he's one of my greatest friends today.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, wow.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. Every time I'm in la, we smoke a cigar together. I love that dude.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Jimmy.

[Michael Chernow]

Or the actor guy, Jimmy. I might still knock that dude, but. No, but do you know who he is? That guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, so. So. So anyway, I moved back to New York with my tailbone.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah. How long were you here for?

[Michael Chernow]

Three months.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Okay.

[Michael Chernow]

In and out.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah. 90 days. And you're like, yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

But it was a blessing. The one thing that happened to me while I was here that I'm grateful for is, you know, again, like, I started running because this dude told me I gotta. I gotta run every day. So I was running every morning and I was living in Los Feliz, but I would drive to the beach and I would run along the beach every morning. And then I do this, like, whatever, five mile run, and I get back into my Car, immediately light a cigarette.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Oh, that was like. That was me.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. Immediately I'm like, boom. Go for a long run.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

She's still vaping while she runs right now.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

No, I'm not.

[Michael Chernow]

Well, I mean, I'm. I'm a zerb.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

You guys are still addicted to nicotine.

[Michael Chernow]

Unfortunately, I'm not smoking, but I'm.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

What do you mean, the patch you have? Zen or. Zen.

[Michael Chernow]

That's my. That's. That's. That is definitely my downfall.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

It's the. It's the. Wasn't it. Patch. Patch.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

Pouches.

[Michael Chernow]

Pouches. Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

I'm thinking about. I'm thinking. I'm. You know what? I'm going back to vaping.

[Michael Chernow]

Nope, don't go back to vaping too soon. At least it's, you know, it's just.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Nicotine and not, like.

[Michael Chernow]

You know what? I. You know, this is my attic. Like, I justify it. It's like the thing.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Me too.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, I'm about to put one in my mouth. But anyway, so I. I remember after a good long run, I run from, like, you know, basically when we're like Windward circle all the way out to, like. I forgot. I forgot what it was. But it was a deep run. I mean, I was like. I put in like, eight, nine miles. And for me, at those days, that was a deep run.

[Co-host or Guest (likely another recovery advocate or friend)]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And I get back and I light a cigarette and I'm like, man, my chest. And I was like, one last drag. That's it. Done.

[Co-host or Guest (possibly a fellow recovery advocate)]

That was it.

[Michael Chernow]

Quit. That was it. And so LA allowed me to quit smoking cigarettes. I have not. Well, that's not true. I've had a few cigarettes since then, but I don't smoke cigarettes. Right. You know, and. And then I moved back to New York and I got a job at Frank Restaurant again. Frank took me right back in, and one night I'm bartending, and this girl walks in the bar with another really beautiful girl and these two dudes. And it was a really happening spot that I worked at. And so there was always beautiful girls, but there was just something about this girl. I was like, oh, my gosh. I mean, way beyond my pay grade. Like, no chance. Like, but I was just, like, beautiful, you know? And there you have it, folks.

[Podcast Outro Narrator]

I hope we delivered some valuable content for you to implement into your life on a daily basis. Please remember that our habits have the power to make us or break us. Replacing bad habits with great ones is the answer to living a life of happiness, optimism, and high performance. We are capable of achieving anything. We all have what it takes to.

[Michael Chernow]

Give it all we've got.

[Podcast Outro Narrator]

Commit to one great habit each day and truly commit and watch how everything in your life starts evolving from good to great. If you enjoyed this podcast, please follow us wherever you listen to your podcast, give us a five star rating and a nice review that will help us grow this podcast, bring on more amazing guests, and continue to deliver invaluable content on a weekly basis. Lastly, please share this podcast with any friends or family that you think might appreciate it. And always remember, want do equals have. Until the next one.

[Michael Chernow]

Fam Peace.