Healing Through Habits | Michael Chernow on Hopeaholics Pt. 2

Summary

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Kreatures Of Habit Podcast

Episode: Healing Through Habits | Michael Chernow on Hopeaholics Pt. 2
Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Michael Chernow
Guest: Recovery Advocate(s), Hopeaholics team

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic and candid episode, Michael Chernow dives deep into his personal story of addiction, recovery, entrepreneurship, and transformation. Joined by recovery advocates from the Hopeaholics podcast, Michael discusses how creating and sticking to meaningful habits can foster both healing and extraordinary success. He shares details of his darkest moments, the roots of his wellness brand (Creatures of Habit), the pivotal role of commitment, and the ongoing effort to spread hope in recovery—highlighted by advocacy, giving back, and unapologetic vulnerability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Authentic Innovation Born from Habit (00:00–01:04, 21:37–25:41)

• The origin story of Creatures of Habit: Born out of his consistent morning oatmeal ritual, fueling both his wellness and entrepreneurship.
  • Quote: “If I can figure out how to get my oatmeal concoction into a pouch... I’ll be able to tell my story in a real way.” — Michael Chernow (00:00)
• Using daily positive choices as “dopamine hits” and building business around authenticity.

2. Meeting and Building a Life with His Wife Donna (01:41–11:18)

• Chernow recounts the serendipitous first meeting and courtship of his wife, Donna, and the foundational role of honesty about his sobriety and lifestyle.
  • Quote: "My life right now is sobriety. Two meetings a day, training for two to three hours a day, and work. If you can hang with that, I'm in." — Michael Chernow (04:32)
• The importance of vulnerability and “going all in” in relationships, especially during recovery.
• Getting a “1111” tattoo as a spiritual marker for their relationship.

3. The Power of Commitment: The "Three Cs" Framework (11:26–14:56, 41:03–42:38)

• Commitment, Confidence, and Courage: Chernow’s guiding philosophy.
  • Quote: “Commitment breeds confidence. Confidence ultimately breeds courage.” — Michael Chernow (12:37)
• Applying addict-level commitment positively: “You will do anything for that next one... channel that in a good way, you become unstoppable.”

4. From Recovery to Restaurant Mogul (14:57–21:36)

• Building Meatball Shop and Seymour’s: Stories of grit, community support, and unfiltered determination.
  • Funding via regulars at the restaurant who saw his transformation.
  • Rapid, unlikely success and opening new venues, even during times of self-doubt.
• “I was seconds away from death…to this dude who just committed to one fucking thing a day at a time.” — Michael Chernow (16:41)
• Reinventing himself multiple times (chef, restaurateur, bodybuilder, TV host).

5. The Birth & Mission of Creatures of Habit (21:36–25:41)

• Pivot from restaurants to wellness CPG brand during the pandemic.
• Emphasis on wellness, routine, and being mission-driven.
• Product summary: Meal One oatmeal, focus on nutrition and ease.

6. Advocacy: Giving Back Through Recovery (25:42–34:31)

• Chernow's partnership with Release Recovery for the “Will Wear the Weight” event: Raising money and facilitating treatment for those seeking sobriety.
  • Quote: “I was able to get people off the street… and they’re all still sober.” — Michael Chernow (25:42)
• Openly discussing his journey despite old-school AA reservations: The importance of “recovering out loud.”

7. Universal Nature of Addiction & The Value of Community (34:31–37:21)

• Conversation about addiction as an equal-opportunity affliction and the importance of speaking up for recovery.
• Stories of listeners and friends who reach out for help after hearing recovery stories.

8. Fatherhood and Breaking the Cycle (37:21–41:03)

• Candid fears about fatherhood and “generational curses.”
• Discovering that love for his children is instinctive and transformative.
  • Quote: “You don’t have to be shown how to love to love… We are all wired to want to love and be loved.” — Michael Chernow (38:09)
• Karate teacher’s mantra: “Seven down, eight up”—resilience is everything.

9. Winning Strategies for Life and Business (41:03–59:47)

• Patience and endurance: “Don’t quit before the miracle happens.”
• Proactively building relationships for business (pitching Gary Vee, Mind Pump, Whole30).
• Notable Gary Vee story: DM-ing Gary, forming connection over Empathy Wines, and leveraging courage to enter new markets.
  • Quote: “Straight up courage… I just DM’d him… and he replied.” — Michael Chernow (45:59–47:13)

10. Execution Over Talk: Building Winning Teams (51:06–62:29)

• Hiring advice: Prioritize executors over strategists.
  • Quote: “I have ‘walker’ tattooed on my hand…talk is sh*t — walking is what gets you from A to B.” — Michael Chernow (52:01)
• Focus on customer service through energized, invested teams rather than financial metrics alone.

11. Hospitality Mindset in CPG: Calling Customers, Creating Community (69:15–72:50)

• Michael calls customers directly, bringing hospitality to e-commerce, gathering feedback, and building rabid loyalty.
  • Quote: “I just call them… ‘I’m the founder, I want to thank you’… What better way to build community?” (70:08–72:35)
• Notable story: A customer lost 100 pounds after making Creatures of Habit part of his daily routine.

12. The Power of Small Wins & Staying Sober "One More Day" (73:12–74:41)

• Staying sober as “running to the next pole”—break overwhelming journeys into bite-sized wins.
  • Quote: “Just root for midnight. That’s it. And then you’re in a new day.” — Recovery Advocate (74:41)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Recovery and Potential:
  “Without drugs and alcohol in my system, I am capable of doing anything I want to do. Anything.” — Michael Chernow (25:41)

• On Courage and Transformation:
  “Anybody who’s great at anything is a commitment assassin.” — Michael Chernow (12:37)

• On Sharing Recovery Publicly:
  “If I continue being anonymous about my recovery, people won’t know that recovery exists…in today’s day and age, if I don’t let them know, people will die.” — Recovery Advocate (30:17)

• On Generational Healing:
  “You don’t have to be shown how to love to love…we are all wired to want to love and be loved.” — Michael Chernow (38:09)

• On Falling and Rising:
  “You fall down seven times, you get up eight. You fall down 100 times, you get up 101.” — Michael Chernow (40:17)

• Tactics for Breakthrough:
  “You want to get in front of someone? Do the work for them first, show up with it done. That person is more likely to say, ‘wow, this person is an executor.’” — Michael Chernow (51:06)

• Service Mindset:
  “If you put all of the energy not into the customers, but into the team…if the team is stoked, the customer will be on their feet, standing ovation every time.” — Michael Chernow (63:03)

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Suggested Timestamps for Key Segments

• Authenticity & Morning Rituals: 00:00–01:04
• Meeting and Marrying Donna: 01:41–11:18
• Commitment, Confidence & Courage: 11:26–14:56, 41:03–42:38
• From Addiction to Entrepreneurship: 14:57–21:36
• Creatures of Habit - The Wellness Pivot: 21:36–25:41
• Giving Back: Recovery Advocacy: 25:42–34:31
• Parenthood and Healing Trauma: 37:21–41:03
• Career Pivots, Courage & Pitching Gary Vee: 45:59–49:36
• Hiring, Execution, and Team-Building: 51:06–54:20
• Direct Customer Engagement in DTC: 69:15–72:50
• Final Motivation: One Day at a Time: 73:12–74:41

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Takeaways

• Radical commitment, routine, and vulnerability can transform even the darkest life into one of meaning and impact.
• Recovered addicts possess “superpowers” of commitment that, when redirected positively, generate outsized results.
• “Recover out loud”: Sharing personal stories is not only a lifeline for others in the struggle, but also a continuous source of hope and connection.
• Authenticity in business and relationships—showing up, doing the work, serving others—compounds trust and success.

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To learn more or order Creatures of Habit products:
Website: creaturesofhabit.com (with a K)
Instagram: @creaturesofhabit | @michaelchernow

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A must-listen episode for anyone fighting their way forward, curious about the habits behind transformation, or seeking evidence that lasting recovery and wild success can co-exist.

Transcript

[Michael Chernow]

And I went on this crazy long run and I was like, oh, my God, this is it. I, like, came up with the whole thing on the run. I've been eating this oatmeal every morning. Those guys told me to do it, and I've been adding all sorts of different shit to it. And I was like, man, if I can figure out how to get my oatmeal concoction into a pouch, this is what's fueled my body. Like. Like, there is nothing more authentic to me than the thing that I start my day with every single day. This positive nutritional win that just gave me confidence, that just gave me this bump of like, you know, I guess, like, you know, it's at that point for me, it was like I was. I was getting dopamine hits from, like, doing the good things. And I was like, man, if I can figure out how to get this shit into a pouch, not only do I have a business that I can just authentically stand behind, because I know this is fueled me and I love it and I look forward to it every day, but I'll be able to tell my story in a real way. I'm Michael Chernow, and this is the Creatures of Habit podcast.

[Podcast Host]

Our habits will make us or break us. It's just that simple. I've lived on both sides of the tracks and have learned that the decisions we make on a consistent basis truly.

[Michael Chernow]

Define who we are as human beings.

[Podcast Host]

On this show, I will be interviewing some of the most inspiring, motivating, and high performing humans I've encountered to share their daily habits, routines, and rituals that help them stay on top of their game and ultimately happy. So sit back, relax, and pay attention, because what you hear over the next 30 to 45 minutes could potentially change your life.

[Michael Chernow]

Let's go. And so they walk in, they sit down at the bar, they have a couple drinks, and then they go into the restaurant to eat. And like an hour later, the dudes leave. And like 15 minutes later, Donna and Linda come sit down at the bar.

[Recovery Advocate]

Donna and Linda. That's my wife's name and her sister's name.

Crazy.

[Michael Chernow]

What's your wife's name? Donna.

[Recovery Advocate]

Donna.

[Michael Chernow]

So is mine.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah, I. I thought I heard you say that at the very.

I was going to say something about. And I didn't want to derail.

Yeah, I didn't either.

[Michael Chernow]

Well, I spilled the beans on this. But already. But, you know, so they're sitting at the bar and.

[Recovery Advocate]

Like, how old are you at the time?

[Michael Chernow]

24. 24.

[Recovery Advocate]

So like a year in to just under a year.

[Michael Chernow]

Just under a year. It was like. So I know the. The exact date because it's two days before her birthday is April 23, 2000. 2005. And that's the date that you laid.

[Recovery Advocate]

Eyes on your wife?

[Michael Chernow]

Yep. Yeah. So. So she. So she's there and they're hanging out and, like, they're, like, being flirty. And I'm like, is this happening right now? Like, is this. I mean, What I'm telling you, like, I mean, when I, you know, my wife is. She's, like, unbelievably beautiful. And I. I'm so grateful that I still get, like. I still, you know, I still get like. I'm with my wife 20 years. You know what I mean?

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And she's so beautiful and such. She's like. She's my angel. She's every. You know. Anyway, we're talking and I'm like. And. And so they're there for, like, two, three hours, and they're getting pretty tipsy, you know, and she's like, yeah, it's my birthday in a couple of days. And I'm like, all right, that's it. I got it. I got it. I'm like, I'm going for it. I'm like, I'm taking you out for your birthday. And she looks at me and she goes, do you honestly think that I don't have plans for my birthday? And I was like, savage. Yeah. I was like. I was like, well, what are you doing tomorrow night? And she's like, I'm not sure yet. I was like, all right, well, I'm not working. Let me take you out at 10 o' clock and we'll go to my favorite restaurant, and I'm gonna get you the best chocolate cake in New York at midnight so I'll be able to celebrate your birthday with you. And she was like, clever, clutch, you know? She was like, all right, let's do it. And I picked her up the next day and we had the most amazing date. And then she straight ghosted me for a couple of weeks. Nothing. Not a peep, not a word. Just. And I was like, damn. I knew it was too good.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And then two weeks later, she texted me and she was like, hey, I'm. I'm at this restaurant. If you're around, come by. And that was that. You know, we have. We like.

[Recovery Advocate]

You're like, yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

But yeah, yeah, she. She. You know, so. So. So that happened.

[Recovery Advocate]

Play that one on purpose like that. The two weeks kind of thing.

[Michael Chernow]

Did she?

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

No, That's.

[Recovery Advocate]

That was breaking it off with her. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And was like, oh, she was with that dude? She was with one of those dudes. I mean, it wasn't her boyfriend. Boyfriend, but they were kind of. They were seeing each other for a few months, you know.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And. And so I just. But, you know, it was interesting because when we met, when we started dating, you know, I told her I was so. I was so, at this point, fixated on Muay Thai kickboxing. Like, it became my life. I was convinced I was going to be a professional kickboxer. Like, that was how I took it. Like, I. I was just in it, and I wanted to do it. I loved it. I loved getting my ass kicked. You know, I really did. And, like, I learned so much in the rings of Muay Thai. Like, so, so, so, so much. And I told her. I was like, look, you know, my life right now is sobriety. Two meetings a day, training for two to three hours a day, and work. And, like, I need to do that because I've got a lot of shit, you know, and so if you can hang with that, I am like, when.

[Recovery Advocate]

Did you tell her this? First date.

[Michael Chernow]

No, no, no.

[Recovery Advocate]

You wait a little bit.

[Michael Chernow]

I wait. I waited a little bit. Like, once, I felt like this was, like, getting somewhere. I like, okay, yeah. Like, not only is she beautiful, not only is she, like, one of the coolest, like, people. Like, I want to spend time with her all the time.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And. And it was mutual. Right? And I was like, okay, this could go somewhere. I can't. I still couldn't believe it because, like, you know, she's three inches taller than me and, you know, just, like, traveling around the world.

[Recovery Advocate]

Hear that? Emily?

Emily. It's possible.

Hear that? There's two. Two short guys, shorter guys, sitting in the room right now with tall. With tall women.

[Michael Chernow]

Huh?

[Recovery Advocate]

Don't put your. Don't put your sight so high. Look down a little bit, Emily. Look down a little bit. All right. Them short guys, you know, we.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, yeah. So she. So, you know, I. But I was still like, okay, you know, this. I just want to be real with her.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, because I'm. I'm like. I'm just vulnerable, and I'm just, like, I'm, like, basically addicted to training, you know, which I'm. You know, people will say, you know, like, you just replaced an addiction. And I'm like, listen, I would much rather be addicted to kickboxing than addicted to, like, smoking crack and totally trying to hook up with your girlfriend. You Know what I mean?

[Recovery Advocate]

And getting again, possibly put in my mouth every other week, right?

[Michael Chernow]

So, yeah, so, so she was like, I'm in. You know, I got patience, and. And that was that. And so, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I just, we just. I went all in with her, you know, and my, my sponsor, I told my sponsor, and I'm like, dude, I met the woman of my dreams. Like, I am in love with this girl. Like, this is like probably six or eight weeks in maybe.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And my sponsor was like, slow it down, my dude. Like, you went to la, you thought you knew everything. You came back, you know, you meet a girl. Yeah, she's beautiful, but, like, you know, you don't know what you know. You don't know what you think, you know?

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And I was like, I hear you, but I'm not listening. You know what I mean? I was like, this is like. I was like, I'm, I'm, I'm going all in here. And I called my grandfather, like, three months in. So another funny story, you know, like, once you get into the program, like, you become spiritual, all sorts of things start happening. All sorts of stories happen, you know? But I started seeing 1111, like, every single morning and night. I just started seeing it. And I started after, like, probably two weeks of seeing it every day. I was like, all right, I'm. This is weird. Like, son. And I had never seen that number before, like, noticing that I was seeing it. So I, I, like, I started seeing it and then basically for, like, two months straight, I saw it every single day. And I started writing about it in my ten step. And I was like, I'm seeing the, I'm seeing the 11 11. Like, I'm seeing the 11 11. And then I basically told Donna, like, I was like, look, you know, you might think this is weird, but I was like, I've been seeing this 11 11, and I just know it has something to do with you. And I was like, I'm not getting a tattoo of you, but I'm putting 1111 across my whole fucking stomach.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Chernow]

And she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, I just know that, like, this is something special. And, you know, and so she came with me and I just got my stomach blasted, you know, with this 11:11. And that's kind of when I knew.

[Recovery Advocate]

That I was like, all right, Such addict behavior.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally.

[Recovery Advocate]

You know. You know what's funny?

Like, legit.

A lot of the, Such a, A lot of such a talking about is I, I, I Can really relate.

Yeah.

1111 is the number that I see all the time, and I literally screenshot it all the time and send it to my wife and tell her to make a wish.

[Michael Chernow]

So I've been making the exact same wish on 1111 since the day probably, like, the day I got it tattooed on me. And I've never. I've never said that wish to anybody. Nobody knows what that wish is, but I say it every single time. And if I'm just being real here, that wish has come true over and over and over and over and over again. It's weird, but. So, you know, I'm deeply into the Muay Thai, and then I go out to Thailand, and I'm training Muay Thai in Thailand, and I'm fighting.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And so that was 10 years, right, of my life.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, my goodness. Like. Oh, wow. Deep. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And are you married at this point? So. So at three months, when I. When I told. I told my. I told. I told my grandfather, hey, I'm in love with this girl, and I think I'm gonna. I want to marry her, you know? And he was like, whoa, buddy. And. And I was like, well, you know, give me some advice. Like, what do I do? You know, I didn't have a blue. I had no blueprint.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

My father there was not. Like, I couldn't look back at my parents and be like, oh, that's a healthy relationship. So my grandfather was like, do you live with her? And I. He kind of sleeps at my apartment every night. He's like, nah. He's like, get an apartment with her. And if you feel the same way you do right now, in a year, I got. You got my blessing. Like, go for it, you know? And so that night, I, like, I was like, hey, babe, like, you've got a little apartment on Thompson Street. I've got this shitty apartment here with roommates. Like, let's get an apartment together. And we did. And a year later, or 11 months later, actually, I called up my grandfather, and I'm like, dude, I love this woman more than anything on the planet. Like, I really do. And I'm. I'm ready, you know? And he was like, go for it, dude. And so I asked her to marry me that summer, and we got married a year later, and she's my fucking best friend, and, you know, I love her with every cell in my body to the. To the ends of days. And. And so all these amazing things started happening in my life, you know? Like, I became. I just became. I kind of call it the three Cs. You know, commitment is, like, the hardest part.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

Of this sobriety thing, right? Like, but what I started to understand was that addicts or alcoholics in action, active alcoholics, Nobody, nobody can kind of draw this correlation unless you've been there. But you are the most committed, dedicated, loyal motherfucker on the planet. Like, you will do anything. You will rob, you will steal, you will commit crime. You will cross everyone and anyone and do other funky shit to get that next one. Anything. You are willing to and ready to just do anything it takes to get what you want. Now you strip away the drugs and the alcohol. That loyalty, that commitment, that dedication, that, like, honor to the thing that you want still is there. You know how to do that. Right? And so not all alcoholics that get sober are able to channel that in a positive way, but definitely a lot of them, right? Like, there are a lot of, like, unbelievably successful people in recovery.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yes.

[Michael Chernow]

Like, unbelievably doing extraordinary things. So I just, like, I kind of. I kind of clicked in on that, not knowing that that was a thing. But I just figured out that, like, the commitment piece is the hardest part. But I'm good at committing. And then what I learned about commitment is, like, you do the same thing over and over again, day in and day out. You build confidence, right? Like, commitment breeds confidence. And you can look at it and say, oh, you know, you eat the same breakfast, you eat the same lunch, you eat the same dinner, you train, you. You go to the gym, you know, you go to bed at the same time, you wake up at the same time. Like, some people would be like, that's kind of boring. That's kind of robotic. And I'm like, no, I get better and better every time. Like, it is not the same. Like, it is different. Like, every time I reflect back doing the same exact thing, I'm like, there's growth here, there's growth here, there's growth here. Anybody who's great at anything is a commitment assassin. Anybody, because that's what it takes. So commitment breeds confidence. Confidence ultimately breeds courage, you know? And, like, you know, they write books about people with courage, right? Like, courage is like, the difference between the good and the great. You know, it's just like, how much you. How. Like, how. How willing are you to believe in yourself? And I learned all of that in Muay Thai and in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. Like, I really did, you know, and I owe my life to it, right? And so When I was 20 when I was 25 or 26, I decided I was going to go back to school. And I went to school to learn to, you know, get my chef's culinary degree. And while I was there, Cornell was putting together a program with my culinary school for the restaurant management program that they have at Cornell, which is the best hospitality program in the country, arguably the world. And at that point I kind of knew that I was going to be in the restaurant world. And I kind of had this dream that I was going to have my own joint. And so I did both of those programs. And I graduated when I was 27. 27, 28. And I was still working at Frank Restaurant. Wow. I was at that point I was married. And I like, I was like, oh, the next step, I'm going to do this thing, I'm going to open up a restaurant, you know, And I had like, no fear about it, which was weird.

[Recovery Advocate]

And by the way, for anyone that's listening, being in the restaurant business and owning your own restaurant is like, I think 5% even last in their, like first year or something.

[Michael Chernow]

Oh yeah, 90% down within the first, you know, 12 months. And so I came up with this idea and I wrote a business plan about it. I called it the Meatball Shop. And I put a business plan in front of every single regular that came into that restaurant. And that was, it was a super regular spot. And these dudes and gals have seen me go from this crazy 20 year old kid to dark, dark, dark, dark 23 year old kid to getting his shit together, to finding him, getting married, to going back to school. So I was there for eight years, you know, and these people would come in there two, three, four times a week.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And they watched me turn into this person and, and 14 of them wrote me a check for 25, 000 bucks.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

So they funded, you know, they funded my first restaurant. And I opened up a restaurant right in the neighborhood that I caused the most trouble in. Right in the center of the Lower east side and small little joint called the Meatball Shop. And we sold meatballs and sides, you know, like that was our thing. And, and we crushed it. It was crazy. Like, we thought we were going to do like about a million bucks in our first year. And we did 4 million. We paid back our investors in six months. One of those investors was like, okay, you guys are onto something. He was like, my bank account's your bank account, go for it. Like, and you want to open up 5, 10 more of these things. Like, I commit And Daniel and I looked at each other and we were like, oh, this is real, right? Like, we were cooking meatballs on Jay Leno, Jimmy Fallon.

[Recovery Advocate]

Kelsey.

[Michael Chernow]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, Good Morning America multiple the Today's show, like, it was nuts. It was nuts. And I'm just here to say I'm not saying it for, like, a sure, you know, I'm saying it like, this is possible. This is possible from a dude who was seconds away from death through heroin and spent 10 years abusing my body and feeling like that I was useless and a piece of. And no one's business. And you know, to, like, this dude who, like, committed to just one fucking thing. I committed to one fucking thing a day at a time. And I was able to just build this thing. And so we opened up five more of these things over the next few years, and all in New York. All New York. And then I wanted to, like, you know, I wanted to reap some of the benefits. And I. I put $20,000 of my own money into this thing that was, like, all I had, you know, And I was like, I want to sell some of my equity so I can see if I can open up another one of these restaurants. And Daniel and I were kind of bumping heads on where to take it out of market. And, you know, we had a massive offer to buy the company. And it was going to change my life, like, in an unbelievably drastic way. And I couldn't convince him and the other guys to do it. So I was like, all right, let me go see if I can. If I can crank one of these things out solo. And so I sold equity. And I like that, Pete. That changed my life financially. Right? Couldn't believe that that happened, you know? And so then I said it. I've got. I've got, like, this confidence now, and I'm like, I'm gonna go out on my own and I'm gonna do another one. And I opened up a sustainable seafood spot called Seymour's, and I did the same thing. I opened it up, smashed it, and it was like New York Magazine number one restaurant in New York City for, like, nine months in a row. And. And we, you know, same thing. Cooking. You know, cooking fish tacos and doing all this shit on tv. And I had. I got a TV show called Food Porn and traveled around the country and shot a lot of tv. Shot, like, you know, just an ungodly amount of tv. And. And I took on a partner because the TV show was, like, taking a lot of My time. And so I was like, all right, I need to, I need a partner who understands how to scale restaurants. And so this dude, Jay Wayne Wright, he was, he was, he was leading this brand, Le Pencoen. They got thousands of restaurants and he opened, he literally, this guy opened up like himself with teams, of course, but he opened up over a thousand restaurants. And he had fallen in love with Seymour's. And he was like, I'm in. If you, if you want, if you want someone to scale this thing with you, I'm in. So I brought him on as my partner and four years in, I told him, I was like, hey, like, if we can build this thing to five to six restaurants, I probably want to sell some equity and go create another one. Because I love that part of it. I love the creative part of it. I love kicking indoors. You know, I don't love being the day to day guy following up with people and being a project manager. I'm the worst project manager. And so, you know, I sold equity there. But like, all the while I went from, like, for me, you know why? I also said in the beginning, like how important fitness was in my life. You know, like it was 10 years of Muay Thai. And then I got into endurance running. I was running these crazy long races. And then someone, once, someone said to me in 2018, hey, have you ever thought about bodybuilding? And I'm like, bodybuilding? I'm like, I'm 160 pounds. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I, you know, and, and they were like, well, you got, you kind of got a frame for it. Like, you should try men's physique bodybuilding. And she was a bikini bodybuilder. And she put the seed in my head. And I went home that night and I like hired a, hired a coach. And for the next five years I just dove into it, you know, and I ended up getting my pro card and competing as a pro. And my, you know, everybody, my wife thought I was crazy. My business partner was like, you are a psycho. And I was just like, I'm just doing the next right thing, you know, like, I'm just doing what I think is right, you know, for my life. And I needed those, I needed to chase after those things. And anyway, 2019, I sold a bunch of equity at Seymour's and the pandemic hit right after I did that. And so I got really lucky timing wise there. This is all because I'm sober, by the way. Yeah, like, like, like there is nothing available in my life. 0 like, not a damn thing. Not a wife, not kids, not fitness, not business, not anything. Without sobriety just would not be possible, you know? And so anyway, five years ago, I had to make a decision because the pandemic hit, and no one was. No one was going to restaurants. Right. Restaurant. And I kind of looked at it, and I was like, holy. Like, my career is over.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, like, who knows how long this is going to last? People were dying by the hundreds of thousands. You know, it's like, oh, my God, this is a real thing. And all the restaurants in New York were shut down, so I had to think about what I was going to do. And I knew that my true passion was aligned with this idea of wellness. Like, I just knew that, like, being in restaurants all the time is something that I loved. I felt like I was good at. But really for the next chapter of my life, if I have an opportunity to step out of this, like, hardcore grind business, you know, if I can get out of this business and create another. Create another avenue for myself to be able to have dinner with my family every night and breakfast with them and, like, be able to, like, you know. And that first year of the pandemic, like, I was, like, so close with my family. Like, we just. We moved into this house of state, and anyway, I was like, what am I gonna do? And I went on this crazy long run, and I was like, oh, my God, this is it. I, like, came up with the whole thing on the run. I've been eating this oatmeal every morning. Those guys told me to do it, and I've been adding all sorts of different shit to it. And I was like, man, if I can figure out how to get my oatmeal concoction into a pouch, this is what's fueled my body. Like, there is nothing more authentic to me than the thing that I start my day with every single day. This positive nutritional win that just gave me confidence, that just gave me this bump of, like, you know, I guess, like, you know, at that point, for me, it was like I was. I was getting dopamine hits from, like, doing the good things. And I was like, man, if I can figure out how to get this shit into a pouch, not only do I have a business that I can just authentically stand behind, because I know this has fueled me, and I love it, and I look forward to it every day, but I'll be able to tell my story in a real way. It was harder for me to tell this story in the world of restaurants.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know what I mean? Like, being a restaurateur in New York City, nobody wants to hear about your sobriety story. Nobody wants to hear about your God.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

They're like, dude, just something.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know?

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

Hungry right now.

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And so I was like, man, if I can combine these two things, like my passion for wellness and my passion for nutrition and fitness and sobriety and food, like, I think I can do something special. And that was that. I came home, I told my wife what I was gonna do. I was like, babe, I'm starting this oatmeal brand. She was like, what? I was like, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I just got this feeling. And so I came up the name Creatures of Habit. And I'm a creature of habit to the T. Like, I find something that works that I like, I am doing it. I'm doing it forever. Like, that plan that those dudes wrote me, I'm still doing it. My life is not. You know, there's been awesome shit in my life, but, like, my life has not strayed far from that plan, that structured plan. So I, you know, I opened up a bank account, I put some money into it, and I spent a year working on getting this. This oatmeal concoction put together. And after a year, I did it. And I knew nothing about this business, but I'm an alcoholic. If I say I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna fucking do it. And that's what I'd like. Anybody listening, like, I know this might sound corny, but I'm just telling you, like, without drugs and alcohol in my system, I am capable of doing anything I want to do anything. Like, I believe that. I really do. And. And so I did it, and I came up with the brand Creatures of Habit. The product is called Meal One. I got everything I wanted to get into it. It's this overnight oatmeal with 30 grams of protein and chia seeds, flax seeds, pumpkin seeds, vitamin D3, probiotic digestive enzymes. It's so easy to make, and it's like this full, satiating meal. And I just put this cool in your face brand on it. And I pitched it to Gary Vee.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Chernow]

And I was like, gary, I just came up with this idea, and I got this oatmeal, and I got this cool little apparel line that I'm gonna launch with. It's this little capsule colle. And I had no idea what he was going to say, but he was like, whoa, he was like, that's Kith meets Quaker. Let's fucking go. And he wrote the first check and then he brought in a bunch of people. And, you know, God has been so good to me. Like, just. God has just shown up in so many ways in my life, you know, like, he just. He's just shown up. He's just shown up, you know, and. Yeah, so, you know, I just celebrated three. We just did three years. We're three years in and we've got this oatmeal and it's kicking ass. And we have this sleep support hot chocolate without melatonin. So it's like this really delicious, like, cup of hot chocolate that helps you relax and, you know, get ready for bed. We got a protein bar coming out next and. And I'm able to really do the thing that I wanted to do, which was basically have a product that I really stand behind that will allow me to tell my story. And so last year I started a. I partnered with a charity organization and we raised a whole bunch of money in this event called Will Wear the Weight. And we partnered with this foundation called Release Recovery. And they've got really amazing deep connections with treatment facilities around the country where they're able to get these sponsorships where a treatment facility would charge 40 or 50 grand for a month. They're getting it for a full freaking big discount. And so I connected with Zach and I was like, hey, I'm going to. I'm going to use my platform to try to get addicts and alcoholics that are struggling who want treatment into treatment. I want to pay for everything. And he was like, let's go. So I put on. I created this event where we all wore weight vests. I did a custom weight vest with goruck. Goruck got behind it and a whole bunch of people showed up to New York and we rocked all of the bridges from Brooklyn to Manhattan. Three bridges. And we did this ruck and we raised a shit ton of money and I was able to get people off the street. And I. We paid for their, their, their whole entire experience. I'm still paying for some of their outpatient stuff. And, and, and they're all sober. It's crazy. They're all still sober, you know. And so we just finished the. In October, we had the second annual one, and we're gonna do it all over again, you know, and, you know, I'll be. I'll go on my. I've also kind of like, you know, in the program, you know, they're pretty. I think it's loosened up a little bit. But people used to give me.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

About talking about my sobriety. Talking about, oh, in aa.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah, yeah, they've loosened. I mean, they've loosened up. You know, I.

No one's a.

You're not. So. So here. The truth of the matter is, is that we're allowed to talk about our sobriety as much as we want to talk about our sobriety. Tradition really just states that we don't. We don't represent Alcoholics Anonymous to the public. So, like, I'm not out. I'm not out here saying, hey, I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Usually I'll just say, I. I'm. Which I'm actually more of a member of Narcotics Anonymous, but just my. Where I got sober, actually, I would say clean if I was actually speaking correctly. But yeah, it's like we can recover out loud.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Recovery Advocate]

And your experience, you're talking about your own personal experience and what you do. You're a creature of habits. So those habits are people having to be 12. So you know what I mean? Or at least, like, that's how I looked at it at first too, because it was a big thing for. I had to talk. I'd like talk to my sponsor before, like, being. Because she was getting flack from, like, old school because she's older than I am. So obviously her sponsor is older than her. So a lot of like the older.

[Michael Chernow]

Yo. Quiet her down. Quiet.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, she's getting a little too loud over there. But now I look at it very, very differently, where it's like, as long as, like, I'm not talking about people that I see in my meetings or anything that I. I go attend. And I'm not saying that I'm a member of any type of organization. I just say what I use, what I do.

I mean, I don't even know if there's a problem with you saying that you're a member. I, you know, there's so much interpretation and I, like, I've worked the traditions. Like, you know, I've. I know the traditions, but I'm not out here representing. When I'm on this microphone, I'm representing my own opinions.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Recovery Advocate]

And I'll be clear about that. These are not the opinions of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous. But if I don't, if I continue being anonymous about my recovery, people won't know that recovery exists 100 and to. In today's day and age. If I don't let them know, people will die.

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Yep. Agree.

[Recovery Advocate]

I mean, I don't know if you know why this podcast exists. It exists because I lost my son in law to Fentanyl. I remember hearing that on 911 of 2022. You know, my, my 21 year old, my, she's almost 24 now but she, at 21 years old, she found the love of dead from fentanyl and sorry about that, man. Thank you.

[Michael Chernow]

Man.

[Recovery Advocate]

I decided, I, I, I, I decided to like, you know, God, put it on my heart to be the voice for the people that have lost their lives. And then I started to see this movement across Instagram called Recover out Loud. And I was like, dude, I'm, I'm, I'm down with that now. Like I'm into that because I want people like you telling a story, man, of coming from nothing. Like I, I was, I was, my story is different. But I ended up homeless for like five years. And I've built a multi million dollar business since I've been, you know, in recovery. Like, I want people to know that you're capable of doing that, that you can live a life beyond anything I could have ever imagined.

[Michael Chernow]

So far beyond, so far, so far solution.

[Recovery Advocate]

And I was the guy.

You're not a unique unicorn.

[Michael Chernow]

No, no, no one is.

[Recovery Advocate]

I mean, it's just we're all the same. Grew up differently, different stories, different.

So I come from a really, I come, my dad's a doctor and my mom's a nurse and I ended up homeless.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, doesn't discriminate.

[Recovery Advocate]

No at all. Doesn't matter.

I became, I ended up being a homeless drug drug dealer who was terrible at selling drugs because I did too many of them.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, you know, I, I've kind of, I kind of made a decision too where every time I share about my story, which now is a lot, the amount of DMs I get, the amount of people that are like, hey, you know, honestly, right on the car ride over here, right on the car ride over here, I get a text message from a childhood friend and he, and he writes in the text, hey, you always told me to call you if it's getting real bad. It's gotten real bad. So I call him and I'm like, what's up? Like, where are you at? And he couldn't, he couldn't even say a sentence, he was so high and drunk. And so I was like, okay, you're calling me like, that's amazing. That's amazing, dude. I was like, be proud of the fact that you are on A call with me right now. I was like. And he. You know, he'd been in and out, in and out of treatment. And I was like, dude, you. He's like, I can't go to treatment. I was like, you don't need to go to treatment. I was like, you already been down that road. I was like, all I'm going to ask you to do, all I'm going to ask you to do is let me help you get into a detox. Like, let me just help you get into a detox. Are you ready to go today? He's like, I'll do it, you know? And I called up the people at Release Recovery. I'm like, yo, I need to get a kid. I need to get an old friend into detox. Boom, Things start happening. The next thing you know, the dude, they're picking them up tonight. You know, like, if I'm not vocal about my story, if I'm not out there just being like, hey, you know, I am a living, breathing example of someone who has experienced a really, really dark place. Did not think there was any light at the end of the tunnel, and there was no hope for me. I'm just here to say, if that's you right now, you're wrong. Like, you are wrong. Like, if you're listening right now and that's where you're at, I promise you, with every cell in my body, all my heart, you're wrong. You're just wrong.

[Recovery Advocate]

Well, and then what's so beautiful about it is one that. That they can look at your story and see how you started or even became sober, really, at a young age. 23, still sober now. And look at all of the beautiful things that you have done in your life, which is clearly. Obviously, I didn't know you then and just met you now, but those are two different people.

[Michael Chernow]

100.

[Recovery Advocate]

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a daily reprieve and that that other person is still in there wanting to kill you every day. But you know the tools and you know how to combat that every single day. To live the life beyond your wildest dreams. And look at the amount of times within your sobriety in the 20 years of continuous pivoting from like 10 years to then restaurant to going to school, to being a chef. Like, what the. And then all of a sud. Married, you have kids, beautiful spouse, clearly. Because we all know, like, having a. A partner that is willing to put up with our nonsense and also be supportive is huge. So shout out to her for allowing you to have those ideas and then like go run. You know, do it.

[Michael Chernow]

So supportive.

[Podcast Host]

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[Michael Chernow]

Back to the pod. The only thing that I didn't talk about that I think is also important to mention is being a dad, you know?

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And you know, I was so scared.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

To have kids, I was so, so scared. Because, you know, you hear the story, right?

[Recovery Advocate]

Like, generational curse.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. Like, you know, I'm gonna, I. I don't know what to do, you know, like, am I going to understand how to love these kids? You know? Like, is that something that's possible for me? You know, I know now through some deep, deep work that I've done that all the decisions that I've made, good and bad, have been subconsciously in an attempt to get my father to love me. All of them.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure.

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

All the decisions, I wanted my father to just give me a hug and say, dude, I love you. And I was so scared. And I'm just here to say that, like, what I learned through the process of becoming a father, you don't have to be shown how to Love to love. Like, you don't have to be shown. So like you can have this like, like we are love kind of beings, you know what I mean? Like, we are all wired to totally want to love and be loved. And it's a choice, you know. And I've been blessed with these kids, you know, like my, I have, like, I have these two sons, these two boys that are just. I love them. Like, I could feel the love. I could. Like, I, like, I, I love them so much and you know, it's, it's like, it's just a blessing, you know, like again, like I would not have any of this. Nothing. I owe it all. I really do. And now like, I did the work, you know, I got to give myself credit, you know. But the only thing that I know to be true is that like, there's only one thing that I've got to do perfectly in my life. Only one thing. And that's just to get back up. That's just, that's the only thing. Because I'm gonna fail. It's gonna hurt.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

Life is painful. Life is hard, especially if you're trying to do hard things. And you know, my, my son's karate teacher said some really profound shit to a group of five year old kids. You know karate. And this karate teacher who I've now become really good friends with, he, he started this karate school in Pandemic in his basement of his, of his house. And he had these like, Japanese, you know, like, posters on his wall in the karate studio. And he goes, hey guys, any of you guys know what these things say? And they were all like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know.

[Recovery Advocate]

They were like, it says karate.

[Michael Chernow]

And he was like, no, he goes, it says seven down, eight up. And one of the kids was like, what do you mean, seven down, eight up. He goes, you fall down seven times, you get up eight, you fall down 10 times, you got up 11, you fall down 100 times, you get up 101, you fall down 5,000 times, you get up 5,001. And I was like, man, like, that's it, you know, like that's just it, right? Like this ain't. It's, it's hard. But if all, you know, if, if what, you know, I, All I know is, is that like I can attempt anything as long as I'm willing to just get back up when I fail. Because I, I failed so many times. So many times, you know, and, and.

[Recovery Advocate]

You know why you can get back up though, though? Tell me your three C's. Because of all of those three. It gives you. The last one you mentioned, courage. And it's because you built all those habits. The daily disciplines, the daily structure, the daily wins, from the oatmeal to the runs to the working out to the being in the gym with your first dude for two hours. Those are building those. That's the esteemable acts, which then gives you the confidence, which then gives you the courage to go in and press on and to get the back up. Because, like you said, for sure, and we've witnessed it amongst other people and then with ourselves, like, when you're doing those things, you're creating a beast in a good way. Because then, you know, like, the resilience that an addict has when it's put towards something positive. You. Good luck stopping that.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally.

[Recovery Advocate]

Because you're. You're created a savage. And have fun with that.

[Michael Chernow]

Right.

[Recovery Advocate]

Because they're a stud.

[Michael Chernow]

I mean, that's basically. I think. I mean, you nailed it. Like, I think that's it, right? Like, all you got to do is commit to that one thing, which is not drink and use drugs, and just know that you're gonna fucking fail and it's gonna suck and it's gonna hurt, and there's gonna be moments that, like, you just don't think there's a way out. But. But the only other thing I would say is. Is patience and endurance are, like, you know, saving grace for me. A lot of times, you know, where I just know. I'm like, oh, man, most people quit. Oh, yeah, most people.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, he always says that all the time. Don't quit before the miracle happens.

Yeah, well, that's one of my. I have, like, four keys to success, especially, like, in business and in life, and I took the one from Alcoholics Anonymous, man, and I was. I seen a meeting in. In my early days back in the 1900s, the 1990s, you know? Yeah. Really? It was like, 1990s.

[Michael Chernow]

True. It is the 1900s.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

I guess that's what my kids. I guess, you know, I have kids. They say they call it the 1900s. None of my kids were born in the 1900s. They. They're all born in the 2000s.

Yeah.

But the. The. They always told you in Alcoholics Anonymous, don't leave five minutes before the miracle happens. So in. In business and in life, it's just a good life lesson to hold on to. Don't quit five minutes before the miracle happens. Most people in business quit right before that. If you just hold on a little bit longer.

Because it's hard and.

But you got to be aware, right? You got to be like, you gotta. You could be out of money. Money. And that person the next day might be the. The person that you run into, that is the guy that's going to take it to the next. To the level for you.

[Michael Chernow]

I could not.

[Recovery Advocate]

I mean, just like, think. I. I just think. Keep thinking about your story right now. Like, how in the hell do you get a hold of Gary Vee? You just call him up? No.

Well, it's probably from all the relationships, you being in the restaurant business. Gary Vee's in New York. You were eight years in the game as a bartender at Franklin Frank's, Then you went to school culinary. Then you have a business plan. Then you're sitting in front of some, I'm sure, heavy hitters because I'm not writing you a check for 25k sitting at your bar, you know, so you're talking to these people that are regulars. They see the. This guy. You don't think word gets out. And Gary Vee's obviously, you know, running and gunning in New York for. For a long time in that like, like, realm.

[Michael Chernow]

I'll tell you how.

[Recovery Advocate]

It's nuts.

[Michael Chernow]

Straight up courage.

[Recovery Advocate]

That too.

[Michael Chernow]

Like, I want. Can I. Can I just take a quick run to the bathroom?

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Two sex, for sure. I want to tell that story, though. A good one. Those are amazing dogs.

[Recovery Advocate]

This one will eat you. Yeah, so only.

[Michael Chernow]

All right, so anyway, so I'll be.

[Recovery Advocate]

Back from the pee break.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. So gary, he. In 2017 or 18, he launched a wine brand called Empathy Wines. And I had had a couple of mutual friends, you know, with him, but I had never met him before because he's.

[Recovery Advocate]

He. He started in the restaurant business, right?

[Michael Chernow]

He started in the wine business.

[Recovery Advocate]

Wine or something.

[Michael Chernow]

His dad had a wine store in Jersey.

[Recovery Advocate]

Okay. But in that realm of like restaurant.

[Michael Chernow]

Slash food and beverage, he became like a wine expert. Anyway, he launched this wine brand called Empathy Wines, the first, like, direct to consumer wine business. And when he launched that, you know, I was like, this is my. This is my. I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get into his head here. I'm gonna do. You know, I had. I had 12 restaurants in New York at that point. And I was like. I DM'd him.

[Recovery Advocate]

I was like, yeah, let me shoot my shot.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. I was like, hey, dude, like, I got 12 restaurants in New York City. I don't know if you've heard of them. Meatball Shop and Seymour's. I don't I don't think you're selling wine at any. Any restaurants, but I would love to be the guy to, like, launch Empathy Wines in the restaurant world in New York City. And the dude got right back, and he was like, coming to the office, and so I sat down with him and I, you know, he was like, you know, like, what's your story, dude? You know, and I gave him my story. And he was like, hey, Nate, Nick, get the podcast studio set up. And we went right into AskGaryVee podcast right there. Boom. Right on the spot. And he put me on the podcast right away. And, you know, I sold a shit ton of wine for the dude. And that's what, you know, and so when I knew that I had this brand in a business that I just did not have any idea how to operate in, but I was just like, I had this sort of like. Like, it's like, no matter what kind of mindset, like, I'm just gonna do it because I know I want to do it, and I'm gonna learn as I go. And I've been winging it to date, you know, I can winging this thing, you know, Like, I'm just winging it. I am. You know, and I think if you ask. If you ask most entrepreneurs.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah, I think everybody.

[Michael Chernow]

We're all winging it.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah, I'm still winging it 22 years later.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, winging it, totally. You know, and so, yeah. Yeah, that's how I met Gary.

[Recovery Advocate]

That's incredible. That's an incredible story.

I have to tell you. I love.

I love that.

Something. I. I really like Gary Vee, but. And I have to tell you a funny story, because, like, we. We. We just got, like, invited down to the Aspire tour by Tim Story one day, and because he was on and because, you know, they just wanted. They just wanted her down at the Aspire tour, so it was like, hell, yeah, I'm coming. You know, backstage, vip, all that. All this cool stuff, right? And. And it's a cool tour and everything, but Gary Vee was the, like, the last speaker or second to the last speaker. Second to the last speaker. And man, of all the speakers, of all the stuff, you know, the fluffy stuff that all the speakers do. These. He was so, so cool and calm. And he walked onto the stage and he had one hand in his pocket like this and just talked. And then a little bit later, he just walked over to the side of the stage and just kept on talking. No, nothing flashy. No flash. But was the best of all of them by far.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, he is.

[Recovery Advocate]

I was like, glued the whole time.

[Michael Chernow]

He is. He is not only a good friend at this point and like my biggest supporter, but the dude is exactly the dude that he says he is. And sometimes people like, oh, he, you know, he's. He's a little too much, you know, And I'm like, you know, you can, you can hate a guy that just speaks his mind and, like, takes. It takes a chance at everything that comes out of his mouth. The dude is just taking a risk. He's just taking a chance. He's like, this is what I believe. Believe it if you want. This is. This is how I see it. And the. Stop caring what other people think.

[Recovery Advocate]

Completely angle balls to the wall.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. And. And I. And I love him for that. I love him for that. And, you know, I don't ask a lot of him because I just know how busy the dude is.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

But I'm here to tell you anytime. And every time I have he's shown up, he's shown up, up, you know, and.

[Recovery Advocate]

And that's probably why he shows up too, is because you're not annoying, like, asking so. Because a lot of the times people will ask certain individuals, like, like a Gary Vee who, you know, can offer a lot, whether it's mentorship or financial gain or helping in some type of aspect, partnering, whatever it may be, and you're wasting his time. Time is money, and time is everything. That is.

Time is actually more valuable than money.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally.

[Recovery Advocate]

And time is money when it comes to guys that are, like, making money on the second to minute realm. But also, you're right, time is more valuable. Or money. No. What? Time is more valuable than money. Yeah.

Yeah.

But that's why he answers you is because you don't hit him with the nonsense.

[Michael Chernow]

I think so.

[Recovery Advocate]

I think so.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. Yeah, man. And I. And I also think that, like, you know, I also am just, like, also down to just be real, you know, Like, I'm not. I don't foot around. But don't sugarcoat.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know what I mean?

[Recovery Advocate]

Like, what do you need? What do you need help on? Say it how it is. Communication is key in every relationship, whether it's business or your marriage, a friendship. If you're able to use your words and say what you really need or what you really feeling or what you really want, whoever you're talking to is going to understand that crystal clear.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. And one other thing that I would also just say, like a really interesting tactic for getting into the ears of people that you want to get in front of, like, just because you want to do something. Like, if you're like, hey, how can I get close to this person? Or how can I get on this person's radar? You know, you can call them. You can call up somebody and be like, hey, like, you know, I'm just. I'll work for free. Like, whatever. Which is cool. Like, I. I support that. But just know that, like, you're not helping that person by doing that, because now that person has to work to figure out what to do with you.

[Recovery Advocate]

You know, bringing any type of value.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. Like, what are you bringing to the table? Right. Like, I would say a different thing that you could do is try to find something that that person does where, you know, it take. Requires work on their behalf to pull off what they're trying to do and literally put together a whole plan. And I know this sounds like a lot, but, like, this is. This is, in my opinion, do the work for them for sure, and show up with that work already done and be like, hey, I noticed that this was something that you do, and I just wanted to propose this idea. I spent this much time. I figured this thing out for you. Let me just. Let me execute this thing that I've already done for you. You don't have to put any thought into it. I've already figured this thing out. And that person is more likely to say, wow, this person is actually like an executor. You know, there's like, I have walker tattooed on my hand. You know, people are like, oh, what is that, your dog's name? I'm like, no, I'm a walker. Like, I got it real close. Like, I see it all the time. You know, like, talk is right. Like, you know, walking is what actually gets you from point A to point B, you know, And. And. And so when you can show that you're a walker, you know, like, strategists are great. You know what I'm saying? But, like, you got. You need people to execute on strategy. You know what I mean? Like, you need. It takes more time to just, like, if somebody hands you, like, a. An idea.

[Recovery Advocate]

Cool.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, read it. Yeah. Like, it's like, you know, you. There's got to be, you know, in hiring for my company, like, I. This is, you know, we're doing well, but we're still a very small, little, little company. And, you know, when I. When I interview people, if they even say the word strategy, I'm like, not gonna work. Like, you just gotta, like, you know, I I need people to roll up their sleeves because you better.

[Recovery Advocate]

I'm an executor.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, that's it. I am a sniper. Like, I want you to say, I'm a sniper.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sniper. I like that.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm a sniper. You know, like, go into a meet, go into an interview. And I'm not saying be cocky, of course, but walk in and just say, hey, I'm a sniper. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm going to quietly and efficiently get the job done for you. I'm not going to ask for resources. I'm gonna do the job quietly and efficiently.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah, I wish people. Sorry to cut you off. I just was like thinking when he said that because, like, that's how I've always been when I walk into a company. I've never, you know, like, I've gotten jobs, right? And I got a job, and then I. I would always work quietly, work my way to the top because I showed up on time early, worked late, never asked for overtime, never asked for anything. I just worked because that's what the program taught me to do. And then the next thing you know, I was, you know, an owner of, of, you know, Hope by the Sea. And then it's like just. It's like all you can do is execute, execute, execute. You've gotta. You've got to get into action, you know, And I feel like a lot of time that's what's missing a bit.

[Michael Chernow]

Especially in the younger generation.

[Recovery Advocate]

In the younger generation.

Yeah.

Is that you don't get. See, in my generation, you don't get paid until you've more than provided your value to that people. A lot of times people come in, they want the value for all. I'll work harder if you give me more money. This is just. It's not. And if anybody ever says that, it's just not true. You will not. You will work as hard as you work, period. Whether you're getting paid $5 an hour or $50 an hour, your work ethic is your worth ethic, not based on the amount of money you make per hour.

[Michael Chernow]

Right. And also, so what I like to say is if I'm interviewing somebody for a role and they're like, yeah, this is what I need to make. My response back is, okay, you want to make 200 grand a year, I'll pay you 500. Show me how you're going to make that money. Show me how you are going to pay for your salary at the company. Because you could. I'll pay you a million. Show me how you're going to pay for yourself.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yep.

[Michael Chernow]

I can't lose money on you. So if you're not prepared with a response, okay, this is exactly what I'm gonna do. This is exactly how I'm gonna pay for my salary. Plus, you know, because, like, if you can show any smart business owner that is interviewing for, like, a relatively higher position, you know, you're having these conversations, 150 grand, 200 grand. And I'm like, damn, that's a lot of dough. But I'm, I'm happy to pay for it all day, you know, Like, I'm, I'm learning about the, the direct to consumer packaged goods business for the first time. Right. And people are like, okay, you know, you know, you should try podcasts. Like, you should, you know, you should try to advertise on podcasts. And I'm like, all right, like, you know, let me figure. Like, I'm going to sort of to test the waters and see how it goes, you know, and like to, to advertise on, like, Andrew Huberman or something like that.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, I think it's a55,000 ad. Read for one for one.

[Recovery Advocate]

And damn, Huberman, you making that long dough.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, I think it's something like that. And I would imagine that, that, that Rogan's in the same kind of.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, for sure.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, maybe even more seing.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, no, for sure.

I feel like if you did advertise on rogan1 1, you might have to spend a bit, but man, the return on investment.

[Michael Chernow]

So that's what I'm saying, That's what I'm saying. Like that. So these people can warrant that because, you know, at first you're like, damn, that's a lot of money to have a guy or a gal read something from a piece of paper. But if that money returns itself 10x, well, that's. I'll do it all.

[Recovery Advocate]

That's the day. I mean, I'll do it. Like, I'll spend it. I'll spend a million dollars for, to, to make $2 million. Like, if. I know, like, you know, I'll spend a million dollars on a, on a 2x return, easy. I mean.

[Michael Chernow]

Right, right. Like, why wouldn't you. But like, I think it's, it's scary when you think, oh my gosh, you know, like, what if you do pay.

[Recovery Advocate]

That, pay that 50 grand to Joe.

[Michael Chernow]

Rogan and you get zero and, and, and that can happen too. And I experience that.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, I, like, I, you know, I Got some not, you know, the greatest advice. And, you know, I was told to, like, yeah, you got to do, you know, if you're going to get into Lola podcast, you really got a test. You got. Really got a test. You got to do comedy, you got to do news, you got to do entertainment, you got to do wellness, you got to do fitness, you know, and, you know, and I learned. I learned. Right. Like, I think with podcasts, for the most part, you really want to be. You really want to advertise on a podcast that has a super targeted audience. Right? Like the Mind Pump guys.

[Recovery Advocate]

Oh, super great one.

[Michael Chernow]

They. Those dudes, they had me on the show. I hit it off with them really well. They love the product. They are, like massive consumers of. Of meal one. And after that show, they were like, all right, dude, we're investing in the business. Like, boom. Just like that. I was like, it's like, wow, that's crazy. And. And so then I was like, well, I'm gonna give that money right back to you. You know, I was like, you invest it great here. Here it is right back. You got your equity plus the money back. Let's go on. On an advertising sort of run with you guys. And my God, like, I. At first, I was scared about spending that kind of money.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

But, my God, was that an amazing decision to make sure. Like, those guys, the return on that was just incredible. You know, there's a woman that. That has been a supporter of ours from. From day one, and she was the co. Founder and CEO of the Whole30.

[Recovery Advocate]

Okay.

[Michael Chernow]

And her name is Melissa. And early on, this really great advisor I had was like, you should just send Melissa some stuff, you know, and we did. And Melissa, like, she loved it. She called it her favorite CPG product of 2022. And I was like, wow. And like, I didn't. You know, she did that just on the strong arm. She just, like, did it. And I. And, like, things which went, wow. And I was like, wow. And so I connected with her, and I was like, hey, like. And she was like, yeah, you know, it's gonna cost as much dough. And in early days, I was like, that's like, you know, and my God, was it like. It was like the greatest. It was the greatest investment, you know, because, you know, you think about. I mean, it's just. I don't know. It's a. It's a real. It's a. It's a real. It's a gambling game, you know, it is like, I just know in the restaurant industry, it's a really hard business. But there's only one thing you got to do well. You got to do as close to perfect as possible. And it's simple. The guest has to be just a little bit happier on the way out than they were on the way in. And that's what I told the teams. I'm like, guys, here's the deal. All we got to do is make sure that every person that walks out the door is just a little bit happier than when they walk.

[Recovery Advocate]

And that's with customer service, right? And then hopefully you have a decent food product and. And, you know, a little bit of alcohol sometimes for, you know, the people that do drink with me don't need the alcohol with me. Just be nice. Like, I'll go to a place that has shittier food, that has great because. Because the people know my name. They like me.

[Michael Chernow]

That's it. That's it. And it's, you know, and I've. And I've had partners in the world of restaurants and people that worked on the team, you know, and, and. And it's, you know, it's a tough. It's a tough margin game. You know what I mean? Like, hard to make money money. And so they lead with the money, they lead with the P. Ls and they lead with the spreadsheets. And I'm like, hey, guys, here's the deal. Like, I'm a dummy. I'm not, I'm not afraid to say it. Like, you put me in front of a spreadsheet, you asked me to build out a model. I'm just gonna look you point blank. And I'm like, I'm not the guy. Like, it'll take me two weeks to do what you can do in two days or two hours. Like, this is the straight up truth, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just not that guy.

[Recovery Advocate]

Gotta fucking YouTube the damn work to Google, the Google worksheet, all that.

[Michael Chernow]

So, you know, but I've. I said, I said to these guys that are just like, you know, he's got to work on paper. And I just know in my heart, like, yo, man, on paper, I'm supposed to be dead. On paper, I'm supposed to be a violent, aggressive father. On paper, I'm supposed to be an abusive husband. On paper, I'm not supposed to have the life that I have. So I know that that paper, you.

[Recovery Advocate]

Know, it's just a piece of paper.

[Michael Chernow]

Piece of throwing the trash. And so I would say to these guys, I'd be like, hey, man, let me Put it. Let me just put it into perspective for you. You lead with the money, and you put fear in the staff about the money. If you think for one second that a guest has ever walked in the door of this restaurant and looked around and was like, man, I wonder what the P. L. Looks like in this Nice. I'm like, that never happened once. That never happened one time. I promise you. No one has ever thought that. I wonder what the balance sheet is in here. Like, I just. I'm so curious. Like, that's never going to dictate somebody's experience. Lead with the experience. And. And. And I think this is where a lot of restaurants fail, because it's hard to make money. But if you put all of the energy not into the customers or the guests, you put all the energy into the team, you know? And I used to use this analogy, too. I was like, hey, man, do you think that, like, in the locker room of the Kansas City Chiefs, before they go out onto the field, the head coach is like, all right, guys, we gotta make the fans happy. It's all about the fans. We just. I don't give a fuck what you do. All you gotta do is just make them happy. Hell no. They don't talk about the fans. They're like, you guys are the best. We are gonna go out there and crush. We are gonna kill it. We are gonna mop the floor with those other. With that team, and those guys come out and they perform, and guess what? The fans are on their feet. I did the same thing in the restaurant. I thought of myself as a head coach, and I'd be like, you guys are the fucking best. You guys are everything. We go out there, we are going to give it to them as good as we can. We are going to give them the greatest experience, period. Because you guys are the ticket. You guys are the tool. And that's when I learned that the team is by far and away, the customer is not first. They're just not. Because if the team is fired up and the team is stoked, the customer is just going to be on their feet, standing ovation every time. They're just going to be. Yes. They're going to tell all their friends, man, I went to this restaurant, this person sat down next to. They sat down at the table. They sat down and started talking to us. They. They put. He put his hand on my shoulder. Like, they were so kind and they were so invested.

[Podcast Host]

They knew the menu.

[Michael Chernow]

They, you know, that's what it is. You know? And I think you can apply that to any business. Yeah, you know, I agree.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah. Customer service. Customer. And, and that becomes customer service because of how the, the team is. If the team's happy, then it's kind of, this trickles down from the, from there.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally. Totally.

[Recovery Advocate]

I definitely have never been a, a fear monger. I would rather like command respect than demand respect, you know, and commanding respect means that you're giving respect to everybody.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah, man. That's been a really good podcast.

I love.

Crushed it. Where do we find, where, where do we find this pro product? This is, this is direct to consumer.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, it's direct to consumer. So it's only on, it's only on our website until we launch Amazon, which is coming up here soon. But it's creatures of habit.com with a K day. And you know, it's a simple product, but it's got, it literally covers all the bases. You know, I think a lot of people struggle with getting protein in the morning and you know, if you're not prioritizing protein and nutrition, like especially women.

[Recovery Advocate]

Should be throwing this stuff out to my client, to all of my clients that are in rehab feeling super easy.

Like, I can't wait to get my hands on it.

[Michael Chernow]

Well, I'm gonna send you guys a whole bunch, you know.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

But yeah, so creatures of habit.com@ creatures of habit on, you know, all the, all the interwebs, all the social, social medias and, and then at Michael Chernow is kind of where to follow me.

[Recovery Advocate]

And yeah, I think I, I found you off of, I think I saw you through Insta, obviously was the platform and it was, I think you were doing a talk and you were running and I was like, like, I like this dude. I like this dude.

Is that, is that, is that how you came about?

I, I, I mean, I, that's how I knew of him. Oh yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Awesome.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Works. Put it out there.

[Recovery Advocate]

It does.

[Michael Chernow]

You know.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah. I mean, hey, the one thing that Gary Ve always says is content, content, content. The more content you put out, the more you're flooding the, the, the social media streams. Don't go back and look and see how many people have liked or commented on your it because it doesn't matter.

Yeah. Joe Rogan's the post and Ghost.

[Michael Chernow]

Everybody, everybody's got a story. Everybody, Everybody's got a story. You know, I got to go back.

[Recovery Advocate]

And read my comments.

They're all mostly, I mean, everybody does regardless. Like, as much as like you try to stray, you're going to read your, some of your comments because sometimes the audience that you are posting to, you want to comment back to them as well. And so like, and we answer a lot of our own, like especially on the Hopeaholics page, the boys do answer our DMs, because obviously it's a life or death what we're doing out here. You know, as well as what you're doing as well by you like combining the two, you know, what you do on a daily basis. But also now you're, you're combining your, your passion to make a living. But also it's what you do on a day to day basis, which I think is like the best of both worlds worlds and makes it authentic to your consumer as well because you're actually like living what you're selling, essentially. So with the post and Ghost, it's like, it's, it's good because you can obviously get caught up in like mental health issues if you're being like cuckoo crazy about it. But also it's good to create a relationship with your community that you're also trying to reach.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally. I mean, I think community is everything, you know, I mean, especially coming from the world of restaurants, like, it's hard to get people off their ass and into the store. Right. It's just tough. And so like, if you're not taking, you know, if you're not taking initiative to genuinely develop community in the restaurant, you kind of flop quick, you know. And so I've kind of tried to parlay that into the, into creatures of habit. And I was struggling to try to fill that, like, try to, to find a way to do that in the brand. And then I figured it out and I basically, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I sit down at my desk for three hours and I opened up my Shopify store and I just start at the top of the orders and I just call everyone. I just call them and I'm like, hey, I'm the founder of the company and I just want to thank you. I want to introduce myself. I want to thank you.

[Recovery Advocate]

That's so smart.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. And you know, I, and I've spoken to hundreds and hundreds of people, you know, and I've spoken to so many people waiting.

[Recovery Advocate]

You know what that does? You receive a phone call and you're like, oh my God. And then all of a sudden they get off the phone and then immediately they call their, their friend or whatever and they're like, betty, can you believe this? Guess who just called me because I made a purchase. Unbelievable. This company's everything.

[Michael Chernow]

And that's fire. And then on top of that, like, because that definitely happens. But on top of that, like, I get to hear their stories.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

You know what I mean? And, like, you know, this is. This is. Look, we all know that people have been eating oatmeal forever, right? Like, so I'm not. I'm not, like, reinventing them. Yeah. I'm not reinventing the wheel here. I've just optimized it beyond any, you know, anyone that. That's ever done it before. Like, it's really an optimized product. But I get to talk to, like, people in their 60s, you know, that are like, hey, I can't believe you're calling me. I want to just share with you. Like, I started using Meal One a year ago. This is an actual story. I started using Meal One a year ago, and I was obese. And a guy that works at my job, a young guy who's. Who's fit, gave me a package of your oatmeal and just told me to eat it every day. And that was about a year ago. And I'm down to 180 pounds. A dude lost over a hundred pounds.

[Recovery Advocate]

Nice.

[Michael Chernow]

Five foot six. Dude in his 60s lost 100 pounds. He told me his cholesterol was 240. His cholesterol is now 180 or 170, something crazy like that. He's off his statins, and he's just. He's just like, dude, he's like, you know, you changed my life.

[Recovery Advocate]

Life.

[Michael Chernow]

And I, like, I can't believe that. That you're calling me. And, like, I hear stories like that, and I'm just like, my God. Like, you know, you don't know what you don't know until you. Until you start getting out there and ask, you know, And. And so that's been my. That's been the way that I've been able to bring the hospitality to the biz. And, you know, I speak to. I speak to somebody that's. That's, you know, ordering oatmeal from this thing. And now I've got. I've got them for life. You know what I mean? Yeah. In, like, a real way. It's not. You know, at first, my. My partner at the company was like, dude, what are you doing? He's like, you're gonna spend time calling customers, like, you think that's a good use of your time? And I was like, I think that's the best use of my time.

[Recovery Advocate]

Super smart.

[Michael Chernow]

I think it's the best use of my time. You know, the name of the game is community Man. Like, what better way to build community than actually to ask them to show that you're interested in their life.

[Recovery Advocate]

Mm.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, people want them that. People want that. You know, so.

[Recovery Advocate]

Because when they get off the phone, what do they feel? They feel better.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally.

[Recovery Advocate]

And then the word of mouth is the best way to grow your community, grow your brand, and grow that loyalty to that brand. That when people are just shooting the. And having a conversation and they're talking about whatever it may be, movies, things going on, that's a story that someone's going to tell.

[Michael Chernow]

And you know what's real crazy? All three of us at one point were absolutely out of our minds crazy and deep in the hole of drugs and alcohol.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Like that. That is crazy. Like, imagine. And I used to think about this sometimes in an AA meeting. I used to think about just, like, imagine someone just walked in and flipped a switch. And everybody that's in this room right now that's super loving and caring and sharing about their lives all of a sudden got taken to the day before they got sober. What do you think would happen in that room, dude? You know, like.

[Recovery Advocate]

Zoo animals.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. We were messes. We're lucky. We're so.

[Recovery Advocate]

We are lucky for the fortunate ones.

[Michael Chernow]

So lucky.

[Recovery Advocate]

Mm.

[Michael Chernow]

So many people. Don't. Don't give it. Don't give it. The amount of time, like.

[Recovery Advocate]

Sure.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, right before you think it's not working for you. You. I promise you. Just get to bed sober. Just say it. I'm gonna get my head to the bed sober.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm just gonna do it. You know, like, just one more day. One more day. You're going on a long run for the first time. You're going on a long run. Like I tell. You know, I always think of myself when I'm, like, going for a long run, and I'm tired of. I'm like, I'm running to that pole. All right? I get to that pole. I'm running to that pole. All right? To that pole. I'm like, I'm running that pole. Pole. It's the same without. With it. With. With sobriety, right? It's just like, run to the next pole. It's all good. Just get to the next pole.

[Recovery Advocate]

And if you're having a bad day, sometimes, especially early on in my sobriety, my brother. My oldest brother was. Would. He gave me this nugget. He's like, that's cool. Just root for midnight. That's it.

[Michael Chernow]

Root for midnight. Yes. Yeah.

[Recovery Advocate]

And then you're in a new day.

Yeah, totally.

But congratulations to you.

[Michael Chernow]

Thank you. Awesome. It's so much fun.

[Recovery Advocate]

Yeah. And your story is just another testament of the beautiful promises that do come true in an individual's life if they go ahead and get out of the driver's seat. Because once we start thinking that we ain't it, we are definitely not it at all. So once you step that aside and you do the work that is required, obviously, look what can happen. It's a beautiful thing.

[Michael Chernow]

Still can't believe it, you know? Yeah, still can't believe it.

[Recovery Advocate]

Your story is powerful.

Thanks for coming on.

Yeah. Thank you so much.

[Michael Chernow]

And there you have it, folks.

[Podcast Host/Outro]

I hope we delivered some valuable content for you to implement into your life on a daily basis. Please remember that our habits have the power to make us or break us. Replacing bad habits with great ones is the answer to living a life of happiness, optimism, and high performance. We are capable of achieving anything. We all have what it takes to.

[Michael Chernow]

Give it all we've got.

[Podcast Host/Outro]

Commit to one great habit each day and truly commit. And watch how everything in your life starts evolving from good to great. If you enjoyed this podcast, please follow us wherever you listen to your podcast, give us a five star rating and a nice review that will help us grow this podcast, bring on more amazing guests, and continue to deliver invaluable content on a weekly basis. Lastly, please share this podcast with any friends or family that you think might appreciate it. And always remember, want plus do equals have. Until the next one Fam Peace.

[Michael Chernow]

Sa.