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Kreatures Of Habit Podcast
How to Rediscover Intimacy with Your Partner | with Kelsey Kitch | Kreatures of Habit Podcast
01:21:18
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- [00:00]
A
The oneness experience could never work for my relationship. We don't, we haven't had sex in six months, a year.
- [00:08]
B
Yes.
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A
This could never work for that person. Give them a tool to potentially start to shake that tree a little bit.
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B
Yeah, I mean, I think this is where people over index to sex and it's actually not about that. When you have that conversation with your wife about we're not having sex, it's actually not about sex. It's that we're disconnected. So the greatest mistake I see people make is at 10pm they roll over and they tap their partner on the shoulder and say, maybe we should have sex. No. At breakfast you go up to them, you put your hand on their arm and you give them a small kiss on the cheek and you say, I miss you. And then the next thing is, you know, that night at dinner, you give them a wink. Like we have forgotten the art of flirting with our partner in a way that's just like I see you. We're far, but we can work our way back from there. And there's nowhere to go. Right. Me putting my hand on your arm and saying I miss you doesn't mean now I'm gonna, you know, put my hand up your shirt. You know, it's just like start at the beginning.
- [01:25]
A
An entrepreneur straight out of New York City. Michael Chernow. What's cracking? I, I believe that. Well, I just know for myself, and I can only speak for myself, but I would imagine that this is not an uncommon way of thinking for entrepr entrepreneurs. When you're thinking about someone to bring on as a asset to your team or a consultant or potentially an employee, a high level employee, you kind of go through a list in your head, your sort of your, you know, your mental Rolodex and you're like, oh God, I like that person a lot. Like I should reach out to that person. You're not going to stop on that mental Rolodex on the guy. That was a total. Even though if they were a high performing assassin, you're going to kind of, you're probably going to brush over that person and you might go back and say maybe this person would be interesting to come in as a tactical human.
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B
Yeah, we see them for that.
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A
Yeah, you're only a minute. And keep them away from everybody else.
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B
Yeah. Insulate the team.
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A
Like don't have them on the phone.
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B
No, no.
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A
Like I just, that is a fact.
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B
It's true. A lot of people go a long way doing just that though. But they're just Snipers, right. They come in, they do the kill, they leave. They're not a permanent fixture, right. And. And that's a way to be. I wouldn't want to wake up as that guy at night.
- [02:53]
A
But, you know, that's so interesting that you say that. So I was watching a documentary on Netflix about the Marines and it was about these, The. The sniper school in the Marines. And obviously having a sniper in the military is like a huge asset. But the interesting thing about the sniper is that the sniper is, is. Is skilled in one way.
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B
Right.
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A
They're long distance and they're very, very tactical. And the military. The Marines paused the sniper school. So, like, that documentary was about the last sniper school, okay. The last class of sniper school. Student of like, you know, guys, right. And it's so interesting that you say the sniper comes in, they make the kill, they're out. And I think the idea and the sort of philosophical way to look at that is like, do you want to be a sniper or do you want to be a well rounded human that people are going to look to for a multitude of things?
- [04:04]
B
Oh, I mean, being a sniper has got to be pretty lonely too, right? Like, you don't stick around for long. You're in and out. That's it. You're not meant to have any ties and you're not that adaptable, are you? I mean, I suppose location dependent, but your skill set's just the one thing. And things change. And now you're, you know, sniper school is closed. So sorry, buddy. I guess you're going black market. I guess it's the underground, but like.
- [04:29]
A
It'S that, you know, the. I think how I was kind of raised, and I've always been against the grain human, but like, even in the world of business and entrepreneurship, you know, you hear like, do one thing and do it really fucking well. Like, go all in on that one thing. Because everything else is a distraction. Me personally, yes. I couldn't be more different than that. I could not be more fucking different. Like, I thrive. Even though it's challenging, I thrive when I've got like three balls in the air.
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B
Yes.
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A
And I have like, you know, I have opportunities that like, I'm not shutting the door on because it's like, well, I, you know, like the meatball shop, my first business, it was awesome. But if somebody didn't want meatballs.
- [05:18]
B
Yeah.
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A
They're not coming to the meatball shop.
- [05:20]
B
It's reasonable. You know what I'm saying? It's reasonable.
- [05:23]
A
Like, so Kelsey, you are. You've Been named entrepreneur of the year in Canada two times in a row. Female entrepreneur of the Year in the. In Canada is fucking huge.
- [05:36]
B
It's not small.
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A
It's huge.
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B
We do. Okay.
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A
It's a massive plot of land. And you guys don't even. You don't even have states. You have. What do you call?
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B
Provinces.
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A
Provinces. Very fucking fancy.
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B
Yes.
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A
And you are your entrepreneur of Canada, like, of the year, two years in a row. So, like, just unpack that a little bit. Like, how does that happen?
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B
Kind of by accident. I mean, like, I think most good things by accident. I was never really one for awards. I've never really liked that kind of thing. And I had this business coach who was like, you should apply for this award. And I was like, nah, nah. Like, I couldn't be the best, whatever. I'm just running this little business and I had no perspective. I was just the kind of person who did the thing I did. I built the thing I built. I put my head down and worked at it. And so I sent this application in and then I won. And I was like, this is insane. What. So that was. It was interesting. I went to Toronto, which I was from bc, and I'm kind of, you know, and they this big photo shoot with hair and makeup and have me in front of this excavator and the gown and all. I was like, actually, this is probably just for the photo shoot. They just want some broad in front of a machine to sell magazines or something. But then the next year, when I got the email that said, you won again, or the phone call or whatever, I said, yeah, I think somebody just in PR made a mistake and they just accidentally got last year's thing. You should let the winner from this year know. And he said, no, you won it again. And that's when I was like, oh, okay, maybe I am good.
- [07:12]
A
So, like, I mean, how many people live in Canada?
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B
I, I. But this is where you lose me.
- [07:20]
A
Okay. A lot of people. So, like, what, first question, what is an entrepreneur as far as you're concerned?
- [07:28]
B
Hmm, good question. I mean, I think it really is anyone who's a creator who takes that notion of the idea or the thing or the opportunity that they see and they. And they exact on it, and they make something slightly new and differentiated. That's what I would say. Like, I don't care if you're selling lemonade and you decide to make a pink lemonade or whatever the case may be. I think an entrepreneur is like, they're out on the frontier. They're Doing the new. I think there's a difference between being a business owner and being an entrepreneur. Business owner is a person who does the same thing everybody else is doing with a different sign out front. An entrepreneur is a person who does something a little bit different.
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A
Mm.
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B
You know the meatball shop? I don't know many meatball shops. People even like, yeah. Guy's a restaurateur. He's like, yeah, but he's an entrepreneur. He's doing something different in that genre. So I would say, to me, that's what it is.
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A
You know, the way I kind of think of the whole entrepreneur thing is typically renegades. Right? Typically renegades. Like, the really good ones are like, typically renegades. Typically unhirable, accurate.
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B
Being fired from every job I ever had. Yeah.
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A
Won't do well.
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B
Yeah. No.
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A
In that environment.
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B
And we don't. No.
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A
And somehow, some way are able to convince a lot of people to want to try their crazy, audacious idea or.
- [08:58]
B
Join them in building the crazy idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
Like, it starts with joining.
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B
Yes.
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A
And then ultimately the team.
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B
Yes.
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A
Done well.
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B
Yes.
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A
Gets a shit ton of people to want to give it a shot.
- [09:09]
B
Yeah. Well, we're storytellers and dream makers, aren't we? I suppose in a way, if you describe it like that. I think I've always. It's like a gift and a curse that I'm living in the future all the time, and I just want to send out invitations, like, come. It's amazing. You should see. And then we build it. That's it.
- [09:31]
A
Like, it's so crazy to think that you could be walking down the street one day and have an idea, just an idea that pops up in your mind. I'm sure you're like me. You get bazillion of those.
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B
True.
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A
But then there's the very small, select few of those ideas that you're like, you know what? Like, I could fucking do this.
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B
That's the thing.
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A
And, like, not only can I do it, like, I think I can convince people to want to give it a go.
- [09:58]
B
Yes.
- [09:58]
A
And then the audacity that you and I have to actually go out there and, like, you know, people would say to me, you know, in the restaurant days, they'd say, so, like, what do you do? And I would say, I'm a memory maker.
- [10:13]
B
Great.
- [10:13]
A
That's what I do. I'm a memory maker. Like, I create environments with, you know, sort of like, chaotic but somewhat curated structure and a sequence of events that ideally make memories for people to cherish for you. Know, ever. And then they tell their friends.
- [10:34]
B
That's it. Yeah. I mean, I feel like when I was on this, like, I call it the propaganda machine, when everything thought I was a big deal and I was, you know, on magazines and traveling grounds.
- [10:48]
A
I mean, I want to just. You're being very humble. Like, I understand that you're. Because in your head, you're probably like, you know, I'm Kelsey Kish. But, like, you are a big deal. I mean, like, it's just a fact.
- [10:59]
B
You know, the Google would say, that's the Google. The Google, the World Wide Web would tell you it's, yes, of course you.
- [11:09]
A
Are, and you should take that a little bit.
- [11:12]
B
And I'm. But, you know, I think there's two things. The first thing on that to me is, look, I'm the underdog. Makes good. Like, ask anybody, Kelsey Kitsch, grade 12, who won class clown and worst procrastinator, how's that going to work out? When I finished my MBA and when I won that award, the Canada's Top Female Entrepreneur Award, I remember a classmate called me up and was like, I saw you on the COVID of this magazine. I didn't know you were smart. I was like, buddy, thanks a lot. So I think it's a little bit of two things, I think. One is, to your earlier point around the audacity, I never really thought. It's like, if you don't really think you have a lot, there's not a lot to lose. So if I'm not the smartest guy in the room, I might as well be the most clever, the most hustling, and the most audaciously dreaming creator. Because, sure, I could probably do just as well as you would on a math test, but that's not. That's not what I came here to do.
- [12:15]
A
I couldn't. I. I couldn't.
- [12:18]
B
I mean, spelling. I'm out. There's no spelling going on.
- [12:21]
A
I'm out.
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B
But I've always known since I was probably 7 or 8 years old that, like, I wasn't. I wasn't going down the middle of the road.
- [12:29]
A
Let me ask you a question. Can you recall a time where a problem arose that you were like, there's no way we're gonna figure this out?
- [12:43]
B
No.
- [12:44]
A
How do I know you're gonna say that?
- [12:46]
B
Well, I mean, I don't know. It's a funny. I mean, it's a great question. I've not considered it. I've never. I mean, there have been problems that I've been like, wow, okay.
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A
We're in trouble.
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B
This is a real issue now. I'm gonna lose 30 pounds and shake on the floor for a while and rocking my corner.
- [13:05]
A
But was there ever a moment that you were like, you know what, I gotta just throw in the towel on this one. It's over. There's no way around this. We're fucking like, like we might as well not try.
- [13:17]
B
No. But I have ended businesses where I knew it wasn't the thing anymore. You know, I have made the executive decision to say it wasn't a hands thrown up situation. It was the kind of situation that's exacting, that goes, you know what this is done, or a marriage or something where I'm like, you know what? I can outwork anyone and I will a thousand percent, but I, I'm not here anymore for this.
- [13:41]
A
But that was your way of fixing the problem. It wasn't.
- [13:46]
B
Yeah.
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A
You weren't like, I'm not willing to deal with the ramifications closing this thing.
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B
Right.
- [13:53]
A
You were just like, okay, something different has to happen. Yeah, we need. This is like, this is the courageous Right move.
- [14:01]
B
True.
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A
And that's it. Right. Like, how hard is it to close a business? Hard.
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B
It's not a good time.
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A
Hard.
- [14:08]
B
Yeah, it's not a good time. But, you know, I think with all of these big things, like, look, I think all of life is relative, you know, so not to get too deep into physics, but like, you know, what comes up must come down. And the bigger the highs are, the lower the lows are. And we've heard that statement a lot. But you know, I think society is all about this like, happiness being everything, being joyful and all these kind of things. And I think the times have been the hardest for me, like the closing of a business, you know, having cancer, whatever the story is, like the death defying lows where I'm, you know, just breathing shallow, keeping it together for that moment have resulted in a life where my highs are hard to surpass. Like, this is a life fully lived. And that's the thing that I'm about, like success. I like money maybe more than everyone. I call them freedom units. It's amazing. But what I'm here to do is that amplitude, you know.
- [15:13]
A
How many times have you started a business purely for the financial outcome?
- [15:18]
B
Well, one time it started that way because I was so in debt. I needed to start a business because I could never make that amount of money, like as an employee. But other than that, that one time. No, never. Just because I was. Every time it's Been I was just fixated, fascinated, or just like looking around, being like, hey guys, does everybody. Nobody else sees this? Like, you know, it's about like when you hear that sound and nobody else in the room hears it and you're wondering, am I crazy?
- [15:47]
A
Interrupting this episode? To share with you that creatures of habit of finally launched our protein bar. It's called the Daily Bar. It's made with 20 grams of plant based protein, 3 grams of creatine. Yes, you heard that right. It also has 3 grams of creatine. It is incredibly tasty and clean as a whistle. All clean ingredients. Take this opportunity. Hop over to creaturesofhabit.com that's creaturesofhabit.com with a K and use code K. O H pod 20 at checkout for 20% off your first order, back to the pod. So I want to tell a little story because I think it's. I want to like sort of bring to the surface how you and I have come to meet. And it was like a week and a half ago or something like that, but so I. And I'm like super vulnerable and open and everybody, you know, like Kat just shared that, you know, we were. I was a bodybuilder and she was a bodybuilder. And you know, I just. She was like, shove a suppository up your ass. And I was like, all right, that's what I gotta do. I'll fucking do it. I need help here. And so like, I just don't care about that stuff. And so, you know, I have been like, I have this, this fear that. This weird fear of. I don't want to call mortality or death, but this fear of being sick. And I shared it. And so, you know, Maddie and I have been good buddies. Maddie introduced us. And it's the one thing that I have had a really hard time shaking. And I know it's trauma, you know, trauma induced, but it really, it really shakes me to the core. This fear of getting cancer just shakes me to the core. Now I should also share that I did just get my grail results back and there are no signs of cancer in my body. Thank God. Amen. Thank God. And I know that you're a cancer survivor, so you understand, like, you know, like, I, I don't. Anyway, so I have, you know, done in sobriety. I've done a lot of work on myself in therapy, breath work and meditation and journaling and just a lot of self reflection.
- [18:03]
B
Yeah.
- [18:06]
A
When I fall into this hole of fear around being ill, everything stops. I am like, like I could get into this, like, complete, like, silo of. Of self pity. And I don't even know if it's self pity. It's just.
- [18:28]
B
It's. It's.
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A
It's like. It's like bondage of self in the realest way ever. And I've really been thinking about plant medicine as an OP as. As like a way to potentially just like, maybe uncover or unearth something that has, you know, could potentially, like, seeing it a different way. Like, and. And where I sort of thought of that about this for the first time was when I read Michael Pollock's book about psilocybin and how in hospice, all of these psilocybin practitioners were working in hospice, helping patients that were really struggling with facing the fact that they're gonna die, helping them and. And putting them through these psilocybin treatments, and then them coming out of them and being like, I have zero, zero fear of my mortality. Like, I am one. It is one. I am cool. It is cool.
- [19:28]
B
Yeah.
- [19:28]
A
And that was the first time when I was like, wow. You know, and I secretly was like, I didn't really share about that much because I think that was in, like, maybe 2017 or something like that. And, you know, I definitely abused all sorts of psychedelics as an addict. So I, like. But that was the first time that I was like, gosh, like, I wonder if that would be helpful for me. And so over the last probably five to seven years, like, I've heard plant medicine is obviously now like, a real thing. It's, like, very. There's a lot of studies on it. There's a lot of science behind it, and there's a lot. A lot of. I would. I think, you know, within the world of sobriety, there is drugs and alcohol. Like, it is cut and dry. If I have a drink of alcohol, if I drink a beer or I drink a fucking, you know, whiskey on the rocks, like, I'm no longer sober. Very, very cut, clear cut. If I do a line of cocaine, I am no longer sober. If I take a pill of, you know, Val, like, like Xanax for fun, not sober. Psilocybin, it's gray, okay? In a therapeutic. In a therapeutic way with the right practitioner, it's gray. And because I know a number of people in sobriety that have actually used plant medicine as a way to really work with their trauma and really work with, you know, just because you remove the drugs and alcohol and you can do a ton of work on yourself, there are still traumas that are existing in the Soul and in the, the physical body. So I was talking to Maddie and I was like, man, like, I'm really, I'm really contemplating, you know, you know, walking this path. And I had a friend, I have, I had a conversation with a friend like 3 weeks ago who I deeply respect, who's, you know, very influential person. He's got, I think he's got 25 or 26 years in recovery. And I sat down with him and we had lunch and I said, hey man, like I'm. I want to get your take on this. Like, I really am contemplating this because I, I just went through, I had gone through one of these like, really deep, dark. It's not depression, it's anxiety. It's anxiety. And, and it was bad. And it affects my wife, it affects my kids, it affects like me in business. It affects everything. And he was like, interesting you should bring that up. I was also exploring this and went through with it. And it was by far and away the most profound experience I've had in sobriety. I don't want to do it again. I'm not saying I'm not going to do it again, but I'm not like, it's not like I can't wait to go do like a massive mound of mushrooms again. But he was like, it was very hard and it was very, very, very eye opening for me. And it changed a lot in a very positive way. And so I was talking to Maddie about it and he was like, stop. I'm calling my friend Kelsey. She's like the fucking best person to talk to about this. She's, she's one of the very few people that was apprenticing the guy. And here we are, here we are. And I. And he put, he put you on, he put you on the call immediately. And I told you and you were like, I think I can, you know, answer a lot of your questions.
- [22:55]
B
So I think, I think a couple interesting things out of, out of what you just mentioned. One is this idea of like, what's a drug and what's not a drug? You know, I think a lot of people struggle with that, myself included. Like, Look, I'm a 49 year old mother of three. Do I want to be going around doing drugs? I mean, I used to really love drugs. We were quite close. Yeah, not really, but in my own journey, arrived at my own place where I was suicidally depressed and a functioning addict and wasn't feeling too good about things. And I had done the SSRIs and the therapy and the meditation and the, you know, all the done the racket as we do when we're like driven people who are, who are willing to put the work in. But there was something beyond the typical, something beyond the willpower. Like I could not will my way out of this. My willpower is relatively strong. My logic was failing me and all these things. And I know that psychedelics for me were transformational in returning to myself. And this idea of, you know, I take all sorts of drugs, I'm drinking coffee right now, I'm dealing, you know, it's a little bit of a lark in terms of what we call a drug or what we don't call a drug. But the way that I've categorized it, if it's helpful to the, to the people listening or to you, is it's intention. Am I intending on utilizing this tool? Let's call it a tool for good purpose, not for a good time. Because I would argue I've not met a person who said, to your point, yeah, I'd really love to do 4 grams of mushrooms today and tomorrow and Sunday afternoon and Monday. No, you do it one time and you have plenty of source material. There's a lot to work through. You're good maybe forever, but definitely for a while. That's the first thing, you know, if people are thinking, how's this gonna, you know, and then, you know, you think about something like ketamine. So there's lots of folks at raves doing ketamine.
- [25:11]
A
I did a lot of that, right.
- [25:13]
B
But then, you know, my middle aged child who broke his arm got some ketamine at the hospital. So was he taking drugs? You know, it's the application for the intention of the purpose. So that's the first thing I would say. And then the second thing I would say around that is it's also about your set and your setting and your substance and your facilitation. So the set is your mindset. What are you going in for? How are you going in? The setting is where are you doing it at the hospital, you know, in the shaman's dental, you know, in a warehouse. The substance is a little bit about like, how did it come to be in your possession? Was it held well? Was it grown with intent? Was it created with the like notion of healing? Or was it created and you know, no judgment. I'm not here to say people who are having a good time on drugs are doing bad things. It's like, I don't have a position on the matter. I have my own position for myself. And then the Final thing around the facilitation, which is really who is the person that's walking beside you in that experience? And in the same way they talk about, you know, you're most like the five people you spend the most time with. The same applies in the medicine world. The people who are around you in those experiences are going to dictate the kind of experiences you're having. So for anybody who's listening, who's curious, or even yourself curious about maybe I want to do this thing. Should I do it? How should I do it? How do you discern where to even go? Because there's plenty of folks who've done mushrooms three times and all of a sudden they're a shaman. That's a hard pass. You might as well just go down and buy some drugs at the park and do them with your friends. In that case, those are the things I would say to definitely look for and to definitely think through for yourself. Like, is this the kind of environment I'm willing to go into for a different kind of experience to do the work, to focus on this thing, to walk the path with someone who's gonna see me in it? You know, it's not a one man band kind of thing.
- [27:29]
A
You know, what have you sort of seen? What percentage of people have you seen that are now using these medicines? Like what is typically the intention that you see? People that are seeking this healing component of psychedelics.
- [27:53]
B
So for me, I think it depends on the medicine you work with. So for me, it's a subset of the general populace, but I would say it's almost equally split. There's people who are looking for growth and clarity, right. So they're doing pretty well. They're curious. Can I get a little bit leaner? You know, can I shed a few things so they're not bogged down, they're carrying, you know, it's just like going for a run with a 20 pound vest on. You're fit for it, but sure be easier if £20 weren't on. And then there's the folks who are really, really in a tough way, you know, anxiety, depression, ptsd. So those are the three predominant ones, lower level or lesser rather would be like folks who are suffering from some kind of like eating disorders, ocd, like habitual type of things, addiction. Addiction, smoking.
- [28:54]
A
And you've seen success 100%.
- [28:56]
B
Yeah. I don't mean 100% of the people, because that's another story. It's like, you know, doing the medicine, I would say like 15% is the preparation. 5% is medicine, day or days, and the 20 is integration. You know, what are you going to do with what you came to see and know and understand? It's not. It's not a guarantee. But for some of us, you can't unsee. You can't unknow what's known. You know, like people. People liken it sometimes to love. You know, the people who say, I know when I saw my wife, there was a moment where I was like, this is it. This. I can't unknow this. It's a bit the same, you know, and then that same thing that haunted you, that, like, you know, when you talk about the fear of being sick and this is like this haunting. It's. It's the opposite of that, you know, it's like the haunting of goodness. It's like the haunting of potential. You can't unsee the thing that needs to change, and you kind of can't escape it. It's like, that's inevitable now.
- [30:10]
A
So, like, I just think it's so. So obviously this is very new territory for me. Right. Like, and I shared with you, and I'm gonna share honestly here. Like, my identity is sort of wrapped up in this sobriety thing. And in. Not in a. Like, I'm not. I don't use sobriety as like.
- [30:35]
B
What'S.
- [30:35]
A
The word I'm looking for? Like, exploit it in an exploited way. Like, in a way to exploit it. But I'm not who I am today for sure, without being sober. So, like, it's. It's remiss for me to not say that, hey, like, everything I have in my life today, you know, I can't tell you what my life would be like had I not gotten sober, but I can tell you that I am sober. And the life that I've built is only happened in sobriety. Right prior to sobriety, I was painting the town fucking blood red and never not in trouble. Always, you know, asking people what I did the day before, you know, like, I was a different human. And so, you know, that means everything to me. And I've built a community of people that believe that are also like, okay. Like, you know, they lean. They look to me as the guy that's sober, that's, you know, who's been. Been able to figure out how to. How to. How to treat this addiction thing. Not solve or cure, but treat.
- [31:44]
B
Sure.
- [31:46]
A
So when I talk about potentially walking down this path, it's. It's like, it's not only is it scary for me, of course, like, you Know, I've been thinking about this, I said, Since 2017, and not obsessing over it, but just like, I wonder if that's for me. I have to. I am just going to sit and wait until, you know, I'm, like, potentially called to it or, like, there's some, like, real science that comes out now. What I asked Rich was like, how have you navigated that? You know, like. And he was like, you know, I, similar to you, was very, very on the fence about whether or not I was going to do this. Super skeptical. On the fence, like, identity wrapped up in this world of sobriety. People know me as the recovery, like, in recovery. And he was like, honestly, I had to question the validity of my identity in this thing. And am I. Do I care more about what people think about me and that's why I'm so questionable? Or do I.
- [32:54]
B
Or.
- [32:54]
A
Or am I actually questioning whether or not this is going to make me want to do other drugs and drink alcohol? And he said the last. He said the.
- [33:04]
B
The.
- [33:05]
A
The first thing, which was, I care what other people think. And that was not a good enough reason for him to not take the step because he was battling similar things to me, right? And so he was like, and now I don't care. Like, I'm. He's like, I'm sober. I don't drink. I don't use drugs. My life is not only. My life is better with my mental health because I've walked this journey. And. And I don't care what people. I don't care what category people want to put me into, you know, Like, I know what I am, and I am a man in recovery that is constantly looking for ways to be a little bit better, not a lot better. I'm not trying to win every fucking race, right? But, like, I just want to be a little bit better. And so, like, you know, I'm just. I. You know, and I'm sharing here on the podcast, like, I am. I am becoming just more and more comfortable with the idea that, hey, this could be something for me. And watching that documentary Waves, the newest documentary.
- [34:11]
B
Yeah. The one with Ibogaine and Marcus and Amber capone, the Navy Seals. Great production.
- [34:18]
A
It's undeniable what happened for them, 100%. They could be lying, but I just don't think so.
- [34:24]
B
I've met Marcus aunt ever. They're not. They're not. They're real people. When I first met them, it was early in that story, so it was probably 2019. So he would have been just back from his first Ibogaine and 5 Meo session. And they were just on a mad mission to let people know how much better he was. And it's not just Navy Seals like NHL hockey players that have had major concussive disorders, plenty of football players, people who have, to your earlier point, reputations to lose by virtue of, we're Navy SEALs, we don't do drugs, we're professional athletes, we don't touch that crap. But on the margin, you know, I think when we, whatever kind of person you are, but however you identify, when you arrive at a place where something has to change for something to change and we're able to be sovereign in our thinking and say, okay, is this a thing that I am willing to try? And there are other signals in the noise, right? Like, here's a whole bunch of Navy Seals, here's a whole bunch of athletes, here's a whole bunch of academics, here's a whole bunch of mini driving moms who aren't out there for shits and giggles, but they have a real problem to solve and they're going to do it in earnest with everything they have. They're going to really work at it. I don't know, I mean, of course I think you should consider it. I think, I think it's a, I think it's a mistake in your thinking if you don't look at psychedelics as a potential opportunity.
- [36:16]
A
Tool.
- [36:17]
B
Tool.
- [36:18]
A
And you know, I, I, like, I want to be clear here and just say, you know, and this would just be, Unfortunately, I'm going to make the blanket statement, but I think it's probably a good one. Like, sure, if you are listening to this and you're sober and you're newly sober, in recovery, under five years, like, probably not something to consider, you know, but I, I mean, I, I, like I said it's a blanketed statement because who knows, right? But at the end of the day, you know, I know for me that I'm sober a long time and I, I, I am deeply considering doing this and I don't want to paint the picture of like, this is the thing to do, you know.
- [37:02]
B
Yeah. Okay, so I have two points on that. The first one is something that I really dislike about the industry at the moment, which is all the jazz handsing like psychedelics is going to solve everyone's problem and it's for everyone. And that's absolutely not true. There are people who should be screened out and there are absolutely people who should not be doing it. And when we talk about psychedelics, we lump A lot of things into a category that's like saying alcohol or just, you know, like drugs. You know, as we know, there's a few different things going on in that category. And so the first point is, is just that. The second point is actually I'm going to just slightly disagree with you in that there is one psychedelic drug that I would say is far and away, like, I would say the dark horse. If anyone's listening to this in five years time, this is like one of those, mark my words, this is a big news story. Comments. It's called ibogaine. And ibogaine is far and away the best for opiate addiction recovery. So people, now, again, it's far and away one of the most challenging psychedelic experiences out there. So, you know, when we have something to kick or to knock or to, you know, scratch at in proportion, it's a psychedelic experience. Right? So addiction is not a thing to laugh at. It is very deeply embedded in our psyche, our soul. Ibogaine meets it there. And so for, you know, if anyone's listening and they're early in their recovery, they're considering, you know, getting sober, if, if they're struggling with opiates or a variety of other things, heroin being the way that they actually found out, no withdrawal symptoms and no cravings for up to six months with a high incidence rate of like 73% success.
- [38:56]
A
So I just want to understand how that, like, how does that work? Like, how, how is it that you can, you can do this thing and then when you're done, you have no interest in.
- [39:07]
B
It's bizarre, isn't it? It's really quite a thing.
- [39:10]
A
Like, is it explainable? Scientific?
- [39:12]
B
So there's a couple of things going on. So we think about it like, like hardware and software. Yeah. So we have our hardware, that's our actual. Here we are in this body, it's our brain, the software is our lived experience, our soul, what's happened to us? And psychedelics for the most part. And again, we're lumping a lot of things in, but most of them work in this fashion. We have a hardware upgrade, so we have a rewiring opportunity where we actually create new neural pathways. And then we have.
- [39:42]
A
How does that happen?
- [39:43]
B
Well, I mean, in simple terms, there's some really great imagery, actually, Robin Carhart Harris has produced, where your brain is effectively flooded with what lubricates in between the neurons for those jumps to happen. And so you have this, in simple terms, hyper lube in your mind that says, hey, we can go a different way. So there's a re patterning. So the opportunity is there for re patterning. This is what I talked about before with integration. So that's fine. There's an opportunity for repatterning in the same way you can run a new route, but unless you run it again and again and again, it doesn't become something. So it opens up all these opportunities for new re patterning. And then is a software upgrade. So this is the part where psychedelics downgrade your default mode network, which is that fight or flight. So it takes your ego and your judgment and all of your stories about the thing, and it just turns it right down to almost nothing. And so now you're observing. So in the way that you said you can see something differently, you observe it from a new perspective.
- [41:00]
A
So you're just no longer judging, basically, and you're just watching.
- [41:03]
B
Observing. Right. There's a great piece that I actually learned about through the Canadian rcmp, so our mounted police force. And they have these. They set a panel of people up and they watch a bit of a video. Yeah. And then they separate the people and they say, okay, describe what happened. And describe what happened. And it's for the witness program. And the one guy says, okay, yeah, there was a guy on a bike, he looked a little shady, had his hoodie up. He was. He was sketchy. He was a. He had, you know, this color skin and this color hair. And then another one goes, there was a man on a bicycle. He had his hood up. He was riding it. He had brown eyes and white skin. Right. Very different perspective. Yeah, perspective. And the same happens in these psychedelic experiences. So the software upgrade happens when it's just clean text, doesn't have all that other waste on it, clean text. So it rewrites the programming. So now you have new places for the programming to go. Hardware, new programming. And so you come out the other side. I'll speak from my own experiences. I wouldn't share about clients, but from my own experience I have a couple of things in my life, as we all do, that I saw a certain way that I carried heavily. And in my own experience, I was able to see them from another perspective that explained everything I needed to understand, to allow it to just be something that happened and not be something that was against me or for me or anything really transformative. And when we talk about addiction and we talk about these experience with psychedelics, I think there's a couple of things that people tend to show up with. They're afraid of going back into using again, and they're afraid of what they're going to see about what caused them to use in the first place the source material. And this isn't always true, but I would say more often than not, you come to understand something and your care for yourself and your love for yourself, which sounds pretty hippy dippy, but will change in a way that makes it easier to stay clean.
- [43:50]
A
Got it. So, so the upgrade in iOS 18 software, right, is now able to be applied to a somewhat slippery and flexible brain due to the chemical makeup of these psychedelic tools.
- [44:21]
B
Also, I'll wager something here that may is maybe not that popular as well, which is it's not all science. I think we like to make it about science because we can point our finger at a thing and be like, there is the math. We like the math. It's consistent and we know how it works. Anyone who's been practicing for long enough or who's really studied in, in medicine work will tell you there's soul in it, there's spirit, there's the oneness, the Godhead, the, you know, instant thing here, whatever, the energetic field. There's Jesus, there's Buddha, there's Allah, there's whatever it is that it is, the all that is is in it. And there's no math for that, you know. And I think that's what terrifies a lot of people is they say, well, what's gonna happen?
- [45:17]
A
It just makes me think, you know, like, probably more so in the western world, after a certain age, we are just led to believe that what you see is what you get and what you're told is actual reality, right? And there's no soul. Like, my wife and I were watching a show last night and there was a woman lying dead in the morgue. And in the show and Donna was like, isn't it so weird that that's like a, that's like a body that's just there? And I said to her, you know, I'm, you know, my wife is Danish and she's very practical. We're very different, but we are perfect for each other. But I am very unpractical. I am like as unpractical as you can possibly be. Like, you know, people tell me that, you know, I'm an old school soul. I'm like, great, I believe that. But it's, it's, it's very interesting that she said that because it made me think like, wait a second, like.
- [46:24]
B
It.
- [46:24]
A
Was like flashback of this woman who was like the life of the party. And just like in this body Right. And then boom, she's dead on a table in the morgue. And it's, it's, it's, it's pretty crazy to believe that you don't think that there is, like, the body is a shell of the soul. Like, I have a hard time wrapping my head around this idea that it's just about the science. Like, there's so much that we don't know to believe that it's just us, right? We born, we die. There's the, like, enter. Like, when you say energy, people roll their eyes.
- [47:11]
B
Sure.
- [47:12]
A
You know, when somebody walks into a room and you get a feeling from that person, they don't have to say a word. No, like, put some science to that. How do you put science to that?
- [47:26]
B
I mean, this is like that was there gravity before you dropped the apple, right? Like, then we did the math and, oh, there's gravity, you know, and the same thing applies to the energetic field. So, like, you and me can walk into a room and we can vibe and this, you know, again, for the anti woo folks. And I wouldn't necessarily consider myself that woo. I would actually consider myself a lot more scientific. But it's, it's, it's numbers, it's putting your reps in. How many times have you met a person that you're just like, that guy's not right. And then it turned out that guy wasn't right, you know, or you met a person. Like, that's my person. Like, is that, is that. How many, how many times do we get to do that before we call it science? I think I've done it enough. I'm 49 years old. I can kind of feel the energy in a person and go, that's my person. We're like, I don't really know about that. And to the soul piece, I mean, for anyone who does have children, we all know they came in with a thief thing. That's how they showed up. Like, that was their factory setting. I'm going to call it their soul. Like, there wasn't any way around that thing coming in. The way that thing came in. As much as you try and like, give it, you do, you know, you can do a little bit, but that's how they showed up. So you showed up an old soul. And I'm sure if you asked your folks, you'd be like, oh, man, this guy. He's been this guy since the get go, you know, and there probably isn't much change in that. There's adapting it, there's putting in a new ecosystem there's doing all these kind of things, but, like, same as me, same as us all. Everyone listening knows that, like, think of yourself at 7 years old when you strip down all your, you know, successes and failures and degrees and happenstances and whatever the case may be, you know, your real deep core. You're still either that curious kid who was wandering off, you know, or the one that was reading the book or the one that was getting in a fight or, you know, that real essence just came in, man, and that is not science.
- [49:31]
A
I was at five years old, walking downstairs in front of my apartment building, laying down a sheet and putting all of my toys on the sheet and selling them for a dollar. And my, like, my sister was roller skating and I was on the street corner, right, selling my shit.
- [49:57]
B
What's your sister doing now?
- [49:59]
A
She is. She was a teacher for a long time and she's an early interventionist now. We're very like, I like that spirit. You know they say entrepreneurial spirit. What the fuck does that mean? That means that, like, you have something that is, in my opinion, been here before.
- [50:28]
B
Oh, man.
- [50:29]
A
Been here before because you, like, I do think that there's levels to the thing. Like, I mean, we could go deep on.
- [50:34]
B
Yeah, we could be here for a year.
- [50:36]
A
Yeah, we could deep on that. But, like, so, okay, we've talked about the psychedelics because I, I, there's so much I want to ask you. And, you know, we're, we're like, I do, I do want to talk about sex because you've, you sent me. So you have a new business where you're working with and coaching people on having, like, a different way of thinking about marriage and sex and, like, how to open up, like, if that door has been closed, like, how to open that door. And you sent me just an offer.
- [51:08]
B
You didn't reply. I'm. Let's.
- [51:10]
A
I was waiting because I wanted to just bring it up here. So you sent me an email about your, your, the experience.
- [51:16]
B
The oneness experience.
- [51:17]
A
The oneness experience. And it's basically like, show up with your partner. You're going to be in a hotel room. There are going to be things that we're going to present to you, and we're going to. You're going to have, you know, time alone with your partner and activities that we are going to introduce that will hopefully and potentially change the way you have been conducting an intimacy with your partner. Now, I would imagine, bear in mind.
- [51:47]
B
Though, before you go ahead, people mistake this part, you're by yourself with your Partner, like we're not coming in the room and facilitating anything. If there's any training to do, you get that in advance. Like, let's say. So there's two intakes. You and your wife do it. You never see your wife's. Your wife never sees yours. I look at what you both say and I go, okay. And I build you a custom itinerary. So let's just say that your wife is curious about a little something that's new. And I'm not so sure that you know about that little something that's new. And I'm going to send you some training on that. So you show up to the party ready. You know you're going to succeed. She doesn't know what's coming. You don't get all your wishes. It is Christmas, but there's only one Santa. And. Yeah. And then you get a knock on your door with a tray. And when you arrive, you get an itinerary that tells you these are the times you're gonna get a knock on the door. So it's a surprise all night for this deepening in connection. It's not all sex. A lot of it is what we call intimacy, which we use that word interchangeably. But intimacy is about being really connected with the person that you're with. So I have some couples who come in and the big show is just actually relearning their partner's body. One's got a blindfold on and the other one's just pleasure mapping them. Just saying, tickling them with the ends of their fingers. How does this feel? When was the last time you did that with your partner to find out what's new? I mean, we're different. I'm right. I'm 49. The things that I like now are different than when I was 29.
- [53:24]
A
Do you think that there is a. Long term relationships? I've been with my wife for 20 years. Great. Long time.
- [53:40]
B
Amazing.
- [53:41]
A
And we have sex every week.
- [53:45]
B
Great.
- [53:46]
A
Which is rare. Rare. I believe it is rare.
- [53:50]
B
I believe that's rare. You're killing it.
- [53:51]
A
I believe that's rare.
- [53:52]
B
Yeah.
- [53:53]
A
And not every time we have sex is it like hot and heavy and like she sees me and I see her and I grab her. Sure.
- [54:04]
B
Of course.
- [54:04]
A
It's like we look at each other and we're like, let's go, let's go. We should probably do this now.
- [54:10]
B
We're always happier after.
- [54:11]
A
Yeah. And you know, but like, I think that is an abnormal within long term relationships. So is that something that you've identified and said, hey, like you're. There is similar to like people that struggle with addiction. Like, hey, like you think that there's no way out of this. Like, by the way, like is, is that, is that what you've identified?
- [54:32]
B
100. Okay, so I'm gonna tell you, everyone listening, I knew three things. One, I believe and there's starting to be research to support this. There is no single whole life elevator that's better than a healthy sexual relationship with your partner. So you can optimize your steps, you can do all your sleeping, do all the things. But if you have a solid intimate relationship with great sex, I don't say it has to be mind blowing all the time. But great sex, your immune system functions better. People have longer periods of clarity and flow states. Like just you can stack up all the health benefits. So that's part one. So like if you're into performance and health, just like have more sex, you're going to be doing better, period. That's easy. The second thing is in these long term relationships, look, we all want the beginning part when it's fun and exciting, but we're actually on drugs. Like we are just hyped up on dopamine. There's so much dopamine flooding through you and to be a hundred percent. And so we get this idea that it's supposed to be that way. No, that's drugs.
- [55:43]
A
And you see it in the movies.
- [55:44]
B
Yeah, this looks good. And I think if you're lucky, everybody had a ton like that. But 20 years on, you've seen all the shades of a person. And look, we're running an organization here. There's a house to maintain, there's children, there's dogs, there's holidays, there's my family in laws like whatever. There's a lot happening. We don't really in our culture prioritize the time to reintroduce ourselves to one another. Like if you met your wife for the very first time this Friday night and you actually approached her like she was an entirely new person than the first time you met her. I'll bet you all these folks who think they know their partners after 20 years, I'll tell you what, there's new things in there. Think about yourself. Is there anything that you can think about close as you are with your wife? I'm not asking you to share it, but that you might like her to know about somewhere deep in your soul.
- [56:40]
A
For sure, I'm sure.
- [56:41]
B
Yes, yes. It's not like you wouldn't tell her. It's just when did you take the time to take a minute to drop into that? That's intimacy. That's not sex.
- [56:52]
A
You know, one thing that I will say also, that's been so, so powerful for us. And I know this sounds simple, but I' Some of the things that you introduce to these, on these experiences are probably pretty simple, right?
- [57:05]
B
Like, a lot of them are. You think it's all whips and chains, but it's not sometimes. I mean, if you're into that.
- [57:12]
A
Something that my wife and I have, like, intentionally slash organically have started doing.
- [57:18]
B
Yes.
- [57:19]
A
And I owe this to my wife because she, like, was definitely like, the instigator here, but something that we've done which has been like, in my opinion, insurmountable. Like, that's the wrong word, in my opinion. Like, instrumental in us sort of like. Like getting to a different phase of our marriage.
- [57:49]
B
Yes.
- [57:51]
A
We have dinner every night at six.
- [57:53]
B
Okay.
- [57:53]
A
And forever it would be like, dinner and then, like, you know, hang out for a minute or two, get up and do the dishes and, you know, get on with putting the kids to, you know, doing.
- [58:04]
B
Yeah.
- [58:04]
A
The routine for the last year or so, we have sent the kids off and sat at the table for a half an hour and just downloaded with each other. Just talked about. Don't. Don't get up. Don't, like, just sat at the fucking dinner table and talked about her day, my day, you know, fun, like drama and gossip, you know, whatever. But like, even just that, you know, because I like, I think my wife knew nothing about my days and not because I didn't want it, like, care to tell her, but, like, it was probably like this guy fucking wakes up, you know, does this thing in the morning, shows up at seven when we're at the breakfast table, sits down, has breakfast, disappears for like nine hours, comes back and then like, picks up where he's left off at breakfast. And like, I don't know what the fuck that guy does, you know, Like, I don't know what his day is like. And like, I would come home and like, truly the last thing I really want to do is start talking to my wife about, like, the fucking business meetings I'm having. Said, however, that sharing about what the day is, not only is it, like, nice for your partner to know, like, what is happening in your life, but also it's an opportunity to reflect on the day and you feel better about your day when you can do that. So I know that, that. But that has heightened the intimacy in our relationship for sure.
- [59:36]
B
Well, I think anytime that you can be curious anytime that you can say, like, I'm, I'm genuinely curious about something about you. And then that oftentimes leads to a deeper curiosity like how did that make you feel? Or what did you do about that thing? And that tells me more about who you are today and so on and so forth.
- [59:53]
A
How do you deal with people that are like that, that, that ha. Like, if someone has to convince their partner to want to do the oneness. If they have to, like really convince them, like, come on, like, I, I know that, you know, but let's just do this.
- [60:10]
B
Yeah.
- [60:10]
A
And one of the two people, or maybe both of them just have not been comfortable, you know, intimately and sexually. Like, maybe they have sex every once in a while and maybe it's just like a quick, like, let's just do this to say we, you know, to feel like we're still.
- [60:25]
B
Yeah.
- [60:26]
A
A romantic thing. But like, how do you deal with stiffness in that experience?
- [60:32]
B
Great question. I mean, this is where the range comes in, you know, and it happens. So the classic is a woman who wants to do this experience because of something, something, or a man who wants to do this because of something, something. And they both kind of. And I'm going to generalize here, but usually the fellows are like, oh my God, this would be an easy win. Like, she's gonna love this. This is about love and something. So I don't know what's going on, but planning dates is hard and, you know, so it's a win. And when the women come, they're looking for something a little bit different because they don't exactly know how to have the conversation. And they'll come saying that and you get another level deeper. And then actually it is. The men don't really know how to have the conversation either. So what's unifying is this idea that in these longer term relationships, when things aren't the way that they were and it can get a little awkward to try and reinvent it, this experience gives people the opportunity to say, someone else is going to give us a suggestion. It's not me approaching you or you approaching me. It's like, let's just go and see what it is. And in the intakes, because it's really designed again, with a lot of science behind it, psychology behind doesn't have to be that wild. I would say the most compelling testimonial that I received was from a couple who'd been married 23 years. And their big assignment. So the one, you know, the fireworks part of the night she hadn't bought a piece of lingerie in 15 years. She wasn't comfortable with the body anymore. It had children, all the things. And so I said, okay, go and buy something that makes you feel good. Didn't specify exactly what, just that's your assignment and you'll know when it's time. And I said to him, pick a song that just brings you to your knees every time you hear it, that reminds me. Reminds you of your wife, of your partnership. Something that really, like, hits ya, and you'll know when it's time. Okay, that's the homework. Everybody gets homework. And they arrive and at 9 o' clock they get the platter and in the velvet bag, it's time. So she goes and changes it into her thing. He turns the song on, she comes out and they dance to the song. That's it. It's all to happen. So to your question about, like, how is it hard? You know, how do we get these people to come? Is just the imitation that it actually isn't as hard as you think it is. The other person wants to be there too. It's just no one really knows how to bring it up. No one really knows how to get that thing going. But just that, like, it's not about sex through the walls, you know, it's not about having the biggest orgasm anybody ever had. You know, I ask, people think about the best sex you've ever had. You're doing it right now, and everyone who's driving in their car is doing it right now. And everybody who's out for a run is doing it right now. This is the best episode you've listened to in a while. This is the best sex you've ever had. It wasn't you having an orgasm. The part you remember.
- [64:04]
A
Right.
- [64:05]
B
It wasn't that part.
- [64:06]
A
Right.
- [64:07]
B
It's almost, Almost never is that part maybe 10% of people will actually remember.
- [64:13]
A
Right to that.
- [64:13]
B
Right to that.
- [64:14]
A
Yeah. No, it's not yet.
- [64:15]
B
It's a whole bunch of other stuff that came through flashing. That's what we're there for. We're there to be connected in pleasure with ourselves and another person in this sense of us. Like this, this kind of oneness moment where time has stopped and we are. That's it.
- [64:36]
A
I think it sounds so fucking cool. Like I, you know, there's. I'm proposing this to my wife and we'll see. We'll see what, we'll see what she says. But, you know, I, you know, I think I really do feel lucky. And there's no doubt. Like, I really think that for whatever reason, in these long term relationships there is this, this level of discomfort that evolves.
- [65:08]
B
Yes.
- [65:11]
A
Even to talk about it. Right. So, like, the one thing that Donna and I have committed to and there's been periods of time and we're together, half our lives together. Right. So, like, there's been periods of time where we've had to look at each other and be like, hey, yeah, we haven't had sex in like three weeks. Like, you know, let's. Like, even if the, even if this feels a little forced right now, like, we should, we should do this, you know, like, I think that there, I think that there's like a, like a certain point potentially where you just don't feel like you can come back from, you know, and like, even to talk about it. So I, like, I've always said, and I've shared content around this before, like, if you are not having sex with your partner, a, you shouldn't feel isolated or alone. Because a lot of people don't have sex with their partner after a certain amount of time. And even in a certain amount, like, you know, for whatever reason, that is not an abnormal thing to happen if you are not having sex with your partner and you think about that and that bothers you. Because some people, like, hey, maybe, you know, it's not about the sex. And I don't think any relationship should be like, purely about the sex. Right. Like, if it's all about.
- [66:24]
B
If it's short, it can be. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [66:26]
A
But if it's all about the sex, you're kind of, I mean, yeah.
- [66:29]
B
Literally and figuratively, it's not going to go that long. Right? Yeah, because. Yeah.
- [66:32]
A
But like, having the confidence to talk about it, talk about not having sex, I think has been very. Even in our relationship where we are pretty regular when there are moments where it's like, where I feel like, okay, like this is getting a little off track here. I'm not going, like, I am going to say, hey, let's talk about this. You know. Oh, you've been dealing with this. I've been dealing with that. The holiday, you know, like, life happens.
- [67:02]
B
Right.
- [67:03]
A
But I think the communication. So let's finish on this. For the person that's listening to this podcast, that is like, the oneness experience could never work for my relationship. Mm. We haven't had sex in six months, a year.
- [67:22]
B
Yes.
- [67:23]
A
This could never work for that person. What is something that you can share with them that could potentially forget about the oneness experience? Give them a tool to potentially start to shake that tree a little bit.
- [67:43]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think this is where people over index to sex. And it's actually not about that. When you have that conversation with your wife about, we're not having sex, it's actually not about sex. It's that we're disconnected. And something under the disconnection is another thing. Is another thing. And I would say that, you know, for the person who's listening, who's gotten pretty far away from that, and I have been there, you know, I was in effectively a sexless marriage for 10 years. So I understand it is the notion of just something that is a pause that doesn't imply it has to go any further. So the greatest mistake I see people make is at 10pm they roll over and they tap their partner on the shoulder and say, maybe we should have sex. No. At breakfast, you go up to them, you put your hand on their arm, and you give them a small kiss on the cheek and you say, I miss you. That's it. That's the very first step. And then the next thing is, you know, that night at dinner, you give them a wink. Like, we have forgotten the art of flirting with our partner in a way that's just like, I see you. We're far, but we can work our way back from there. And there's nowhere to go. Right. Me putting my hand on your arm and saying, I miss you doesn't mean now I'm gonna, you know, put my hand up your shirt. You know, it's just like, start at the beginning.
- [69:18]
A
You know. One other thing that I just want to add to that, because I think it's. It's. It's also something that has kept Donna and I in this kind of, like, flow. And again, right. Like, there are times where it's just if there's bumps that show up and. But we have a routine like most married couples, you know, we got a routine, and every night we watch a show together for the most part. You know, the kids go down. We have our time for about an hour and a half where we're together, we watch a show, right? You know, she has her tea. I've got my creature sleep. And like, you know. But the thing that. That we have been very good at doing is when we're together on the couch, we are touching each other. Not, Not. She's not grabbing my crotch. I'm not, like, grabbing her tits.
- [70:05]
B
Yeah, but.
- [70:05]
A
But I've got my hand on her leg, and she'll grab my foot. I'LL grab her hand or she'll touch my hair.
- [70:14]
B
Right.
- [70:15]
A
Like every night when we are together next to each other, there is a connection, a physical connection. And it's never like, connection. It's just, I hear you. You. I love you. You love me. You're my partner. I'm touching you. You feel my hand.
- [70:33]
B
I'm here.
- [70:34]
A
I'm here. But there's not, like the distance between us. Doesn't need to be to feel like a foam barricade, because I think when you're in an argument or something and you're, like, sitting on the other side of the couch, like, it feels like there is a dense piece of fucking material. Two of you.
- [70:56]
B
So you. You raise a good point. And this is. This is something I'll encourage. So I think that all of intimacy is something in motion. So if I. If. If you're on the. If you're on the couch and you have your hand on your partner, that. That's nice, and that's connectedness. But what's intimate is a small motion. Like, remember the first time you held a girl's hand? Or you're at the movies when you're 14 years old.
- [71:22]
A
14, fourth grade. I remember when I put my arm around a girl for the first time. God, that was.
- [71:27]
B
And you landed the arm, and you're like, safety. Don't move a thing. It's. I'm. It's on it. I've got it. Right. Didn't you?
- [71:35]
A
Yes.
- [71:35]
B
And then if you even moved your.
- [71:38]
A
Thumb a little bit, changes the whole.
- [71:40]
B
Experience, changes the whole game that. The whole game. It's on now. Is on now, right? Oh, my God. And the same applies, you know, so this. This idea of a little bit of momentum. Yeah, just a little bit of momentum. So when you're. You're in that big argument and there's this dense wall in between you and all the things like, just give it a little bit of momentum. Don't try and fix it. Don't try and go for the home run. This is not the Hail Mary pass. You know, this is just like a little moment of something solid. I'm here, right? Hand on the leg, hand on there with this, like, the smallest thumb stroke, one.
- [72:20]
A
One thumbstroke, one other thing, and then we got to go.
- [72:22]
B
Because I. We've been doing this.
- [72:24]
A
But one other thing that I also think is really kind of. And I'm talking through a. A male lens here, like, when it comes to sex, and I'm going to talk about sex now, but I do think that Men. And I'm speaking from experience, you know, when you're in bed and whether it's early morning, which is our time, or at night, if that's the, your time, you can run this tape in your head. Should I, can I ask her? Is she going to blow me off? Like, is she, does she want to, does she want to have sex right now? I don't know if that, that energy that we, you know, we talk about, energy is very, very like easy for someone to sniff, sniff out right away. Like, I, like unsure, kind of nervous. Like, like, and like if you are in the mood for having sex and you've been with your partner for, God, for a long time, who cares if she says no? Confidently approach your partner wanting to have sex. And if she says no, all good.
- [73:35]
B
Yes.
- [73:36]
A
But the insecure.
- [73:39]
B
Oh man. Confidence is the sexiest fucking thing in town. I don't even know if we can swear.
- [73:44]
A
I'm sorry, but no. You could totally square. Like, swear square. This is not a square podcast. You could swear.
- [73:52]
B
No. Confidence is the sexiest fucking thing in town. And to add to that, for all the fellows listening, and I think this is just like such a almost. It gets like my temperature is increasing right now and I'm sweating a little bit because women want sex and a lot and more as we age. I think you guys, I think society has just got us wrong. I'll tell you what, like my girlfriends are a bunch of feral. Like, it's. No, it's true. There's a place in our lives where all of a sudden we had this like presence of self and knowing we become a little bit more sovereign even though our bodies are totally different and my, like, you know, my tits are longer than they were before. I am, I'm fucking amazing. And I have so much more confidence in myself and what I want and who I am. And I can tell you that like 30 year old Kelsey was having some pretty good sex. 49 year old Kelsey, 30 year old Kelsey doesn't even know what's possible. She has no fucking concept. And it's a good thing because she probably would have gotten no work done. So for the fella who's lying there beside his wife of 20 years or whatever the case may be, 25 years, it's not that she doesn't want it, you know, it really isn't.
- [75:24]
A
What is it?
- [75:26]
B
It's probably that society tells us it's not okay to be sexualized. Society makes us instruments of sex as opposed to like, you know, sexual beings. Sexual beings.
- [75:42]
A
We are Sexual beings.
- [75:44]
B
Oh my God, we're animals. Come on now, we forgot that part. The people who live the longest are having the most sex. It's true.
- [75:55]
A
I, I think we gotta that, I mean, what better way than to drop the hammer on that, right? Like I, you know, I am such an advocate for, for that, you know, having sex in relationships long term is, you know, there's not a, there's never a moment in time where you have sex with your partner and you feel worse than you did prior to having sex. Right. Like, it's just, I mean, unless obviously something really bad is happening. But like it's just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm confident you and I need to do probably a part two and a part three of this podcast because we could probably talk for hours and hours.
- [76:37]
B
Yes.
- [76:37]
A
One last thing that I want to do. We just launched these protein bars. Creatures of habit. You want them dry.
- [76:43]
B
Thank you.
- [76:44]
A
So this is a daily bar orange. It's got, it's chocolate peanut butter. The flavor is.
- [76:49]
B
Oh my goodness.
- [76:49]
A
Butter banger.
- [76:50]
B
Can I, can I. Yeah, go for it.
- [76:52]
A
I'm gonna have, I'm gonna have a bite with you too. It's 20 grams of protein, plant based.
- [76:57]
B
Wow.
- [76:57]
A
It's got 3 grams of creatine, no seed oils, non GMO, gluten free, dairy free. All the good stuff, really clean ingredients took me two years to develop.
- [77:10]
B
Okay. Do you want my absolute. Sorry, I'm talking with my mouthful. I'm going to tell you the texture is really good. I bring that up first because I'm a bit of a texture person and a lot of times the texture of these kind of protein bars to me is just like, where's my water? This is disgusting. Or like, how many years has this been in this container? It's just a perfect mix of like crunchy and chewy and kind of like, like, I know we're just talking about sex, so like, maybe I'm on a little bit of a tangent here. But like the mouth feel is good, but the flavor. So I like peanut butter and I like chocolate, but this is like more to me. And if you like chocolate more than peanut butter, maybe. But the peanut butter in this is like quality. It's not like sugary bullshit peanut butter. It's not the notion of a peanut. It's like, this is fucking good, dude.
- [78:17]
A
Let's fucking go.
- [78:18]
B
This is fucking good.
- [78:20]
A
You fucking rocked. You rocked that testimonial. Yes.
- [78:24]
B
I got a little like, I'm kind of fucking this thing with my mouth right now.
- [78:28]
A
Let's go.
- [78:29]
B
Did you hear? It's good.
- [78:31]
A
Fuck yeah. Well, it's very good. We're going to dinner tonight and so this is a little precursor. I'm taking you to Frank restaurant, which is a restaurant that I cut my teeth in. I worked there for eight and a half years. It holds us very special place in my heart. The food is delicious. The vibes are always like really, really good. You're amazing, Kels. Thank you so much for being here. You mind that I call you?
- [78:53]
B
You absolutely must.
- [78:54]
A
Okay, okay.
- [78:54]
B
We're pals now.
- [78:56]
A
This was such a great conversation and we talked about, I mean we covered so many different things from like pretty serious and intimate to like real levity and like really like, I think the conversation around sex, especially in long term relationships, be talked about more. There needs to be some levity to it. Like people need to just loosen the fuck up and just be like, yeah, whatever, we're together forever. Let's just fuck. Like, let's go and do it. Like we've been together a long time. Like, let's not make this weird and awkward. Let's just, we're together, we can have sex whenever we want. How awesome is that?
- [79:34]
B
It's the top of the pops. Really.
- [79:36]
A
I mean, I don't know how my wife is going to feel about this one, but you know, Donna, I love you more than anything on the planet. You know that. And like, you know, I just. Guys, this was such a great episode. We, I, I know you loved this one and share it with a friend. Share it with a family member. Share it with a foe. Share with an enemy. Bury the hatchet on this one. Say, hey, like, I've been thinking about you. Let me just share this podcast with you. It made me think about you. Let's have fucking coffee next week. This would be a great conversation starter to have coffee over with a friend or a foe. Where can people find you, Kelsey?
- [80:15]
B
They can find me@theparamountlove.com. that's the oneness experience. So they just find Kelsey kitsch. I'm around too.
- [80:22]
A
Awesome. Do me a favor, share the podcast. The only rent I ask you to pay is sharing the podcast. The little cherry on top that I am going to ask for. Because I do ask for it every week. Means a lot to us. Give us a five star rating and a review. If you didn't like the podcast and you want to bash me, send me a dm. Don't write a fucking bad review. I would embrace you like a friend. But just don't write a bad review. Have a great whatever time of the day it is going forward, have a great one. And thanks for tuning in. I appreciate you. I love you. Thank you for subscribing until the next one, y'. All.
- [81:01]
B
Peace, Sam.