Kreature Kane Conversation with Kane Footwear Founder John Gagliardi

Summary

Kreatures Of Habit Podcast
Episode: Kreature Kane Conversation with Kane Footwear Founder John Gagliardi
Host: Michael Chernow
Guest: John Gagliardi (Founder, Kane Footwear)
Date: September 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Michael Chernow sits down with John Gagliardi, founder of Kane Footwear, for an in-depth discussion about entrepreneurship, building a footwear brand rooted in innovation and sustainability, and the habits that drive high-performance founders. The conversation covers John's journey from college athlete and seasoned entrepreneur to leader in the sustainable footwear space. They explore the importance of risk-taking, personal routines, the power of fitness, the value of likability in business, and strategies for both product marketing and personal development.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Risk-Taking and Entrepreneurial Drive (00:00–02:28; 38:00–41:35)

• John’s Perspective on Risk: John describes himself as a lifelong risk-taker, both as an athlete and entrepreneur. He compares entrepreneurship to hunting: "You eat what you kill" (00:08).
• Entrepreneurship vs. Other Careers: “I would look at like the Forbes 500 magazine and I'd say…They're either entrepreneurs, real estate, or like hedge fund guys. I said...I'm not passionate about real estate...So I said, entrepreneurs. And I like this. This is like you eat what you kill.” (00:23–00:39)
• Relentless Hustle: John believes his competitive spirit and willingness to “out-hustle” competitors are key to his success. He works late at night after family time, emphasizing, “When it’s a hustle game, I’m good at that because I think I could out hustle my opponents.” (01:04–01:13)

2. The Origin and Ethos of Kane Footwear (02:29–08:19)

• Innovative Materials: Kane Footwear uses renewable, sustainable materials—namely Brazilian sugarcane—for its shoes. John shares, “When you're done wearing canes...you can ship yours back...and you could get a credit, $10 credit. And we make yoga mats out of those canes.” (03:05–03:39)
• Circular Business Approach: Beyond shoes, the company repurposes their products into yoga mats and coasters, reinforcing their sustainability ethos.
• Brand Launch and Growth: Kane Footwear launched in June 2021, and its adoption in the fitness community, youth sports, and professional athletics has accelerated. “We work with 26 NFL teams. They all buy them for their players and their staff… It just evolved.” (07:38–08:19)

3. Recovery Shoes and Design Philosophy (09:07–10:22)

• Recovery-Focused Footwear: “So you have your shoe you do like on field...and this is a shoe that you would wear…before or after working out...You're letting your feet breathe.” (09:12–09:48)
• Expert Design: Kane collaborated with podiatrist Dr. Geller to craft a shoe that prioritizes foot recovery, using features such as node stimulation, breathability, and elevated heels. “It’s a better-for-you shoe than like a slip on…or some of the other EVA shoes out there.” (10:08–10:22)

4. John’s Entrepreneurial Journey and Mindset (10:22–16:20; 17:02–22:27)

• From Athlete to Entrepreneur: John details his pivot from playing lacrosse at Johns Hopkins to a stint in finance, launching Blue Buffalo Pet Foods, then founding Maverik Lacrosse, which became the #1 collegiate brand and was eventually acquired by Bauer Hockey.
• Experiencing and Navigating Exits: John shares insights into being acquired by a major private equity group, the impact on his mindset, and his motivation for post-acquisition ventures. “It was life-changing for me...where I could buy a house...It was enough to give me some freedom to now invest in some other brands.” (14:31–14:57)
• Post-Exit Exploration and Learning: He experimented in new categories, including a tea business ("We were losing a ton of money" [17:45]), learned from failures, and solidified criteria for future ventures: D2C-friendly, lightweight, health-focused, and shippable.

5. Family Roots in Footwear and Brand Building (20:47–23:10)

• Retail Insights: As the son of a shoe store owner, John understood footwear’s emotional significance—“It's part of their uniform every day they love. And they. They don't have one pair. They have seven pairs.” (20:47–21:00)
• Market Differentiation: Inspired by Crocs’ dominance, Kane set out to make a technically advanced, athlete-oriented EVA shoe, emphasizing design and functionality.

6. Breaking Through: Brand Validation Moments (23:10–24:39)

• Early Signals of Success: Their first product launch exceeded expectations, selling out inventory quickly. Key moments—such as rapper Quavo and Drake wearing the shoes—convinced John the brand’s appeal extended far beyond fitness.
• Vision for Longevity: “We're looking to build something that's here 50 years from now.” (24:28–24:39)

7. Marketing: Influence, Events, and Grassroots Hustle (25:36–31:21)

• Micro-Influencers and Diverse Audiences: "Working with micro influencers, not necessarily the monster ones..." (25:45); expanding beyond fitness into new communities.
• Events as Growth Engine: “I come from that grassroots background...every weekend...just getting in front of people because a lot want to touch and feel it.” (26:27) Kane’s event teams activate marathons, running events, and youth sports.
• Direct Attribution from Events: They sell at events and provide unique discount codes for online orders, emphasizing the necessity of "getting out in the streets." (28:29–29:08)

8. Youth Sports, Nutrition, and Product Placement (31:21–36:44)

• Conversation turns personal as Michael and John discuss their kids’ participation in sports and the nutrition gap in youth athletics. “When we think about nutrition, not every parent is thinking…what fuel am I giving my kids to perform better?” (32:34–32:45)
• Barriers to Healthful Eating: Michael reflects on the challenges of getting children to eat healthy, illustrating differences between his sons’ eating habits.

9. The Power of Routine and Personal Habits (50:14–58:45)

• Morning Routine: John prioritizes a morning workout—“I don’t go to work unless I work out...I have to sweat every day...It clears your mind, gets your fitness, your body where it needs to be.” (50:20–51:03; 57:16–57:40)
• Work/Life Flow: Kids on the bus by 8:30, workouts before the workday, emails and “big things” tackled first, and evening work after family time.
• Sleep and Nutrition: Emphasizes 8 hours of sleep and not eating after 7pm.

10. Likability and Team Building (41:35–46:11)

• Culture over Resume: “I could train him…can't teach him personality and how to interact with others. He's got that, that's, that's the hard part." (42:33–42:50)
• Likability as an Asset: “If you’re an asshole, it’s not gonna work... Likability is huge.” (44:37–45:30)

11. Firing and Honest Conversations (46:11–48:26)

• Compassionate Exits: John asks team members if they’re truly passionate about the role—“I try to get them to come around to, ‘You’re right, I really love just...doing CrossFit’...Go do something in that space.” (46:21–47:49)
• Both men share firing philosophies that prioritize dignity and the option for future collaboration.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Out-Hustling Competitors:
  "When it's a hustle game, I'm good at that because I think I could out hustle my opponents.” — John (01:09)
• On Risk and Motivation:
  “You eat what you kill. This is like, you don't eat unless you kill something, a deer or anything.” — John (00:25)
• On Likability in Business:
  "I could train him. I could teach him how this works over here in this world. I can't teach him personality and how to interact with others. He's got that, that's the hard part." — John (42:40)
• On Entrepreneurship:
  “A very small percentage of people are willing to go out there and take a risk and...bring [an idea] to fruition.” — Michael (38:00)
• On the Power of a Workout:
  “Working out, you feel so good. Sweating everything out, you feel like...a shell come off you. It feels so good.” — John (57:16)
• On Fitness as a Lifeline:
  "If there's anything that I can point to as to what has been the catalyst to my happiness in life and then ultimately success...Working out. Neat and right." — Michael (56:53)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:08 – John’s risk-taker mindset and entrepreneurial roots
• 02:29 – Sustainable materials and product life-cycle at Kane Footwear
• 07:38 – Early brand adoption and expansion into pro and youth sports
• 09:12 – The design and use-case for Kane’s “recovery shoes”
• 10:28 – John’s career path through sports, finance, and pet food/startup life
• 14:31 – The experience and mindset behind a major business exit
• 23:10 – First signals of Kane’s runaway success
• 25:45 – The power of micro-influencers and grassroots marketing
• 28:29 – Direct sales impact of events for a new brand
• 31:21 – Youth sports, nutrition, and parental challenges
• 41:35 – Likability as a key trait for hiring and collaboration
• 46:21 – Firing compassionately: “Is this what you love doing?”
• 50:20 – John’s morning and evening routines
• 57:16 – The “antidepressant” effect of daily exercise

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Actionable Takeaways for Listeners

• Build routines that prioritize wellbeing. A daily workout clears the mind and jumpstarts productivity.
• Success in business often stems from relentless hustle and a willingness to outwork others—even late at night.
• Likability is often just as valuable a trait as performance when building teams and orchestrating partnerships.
• Failure and missteps (like a tea brand that didn’t pan out) are powerful teachers—learn and iterate for your next venture.
• Grassroots, in-person marketing continues to outperform in the D2C landscape, especially for new consumer brands.
• For aspirant founders, side-hustle your brand until it’s sustainable, and tackle the process one step at a time.

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Where to Find Kane Footwear and Connect with John

• Website: kanefootwear.com (Kane with a K) (58:51)
• Retail: 325+ Dick’s Sporting Goods, Nordstrom, Shields, specialty running stores, and major marathon expos.
• Social: Kane Footwear’s social feeds focus on founder stories and behind-the-brand content.
• DMs: John invites listeners to reach out directly with questions or for advice. (62:21)

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Episode in a Sentence

A deep dive into the mindsets, habits, and hustles that built Kane Footwear, emphasizing risk-taking, the power of fitting daily wellness into entrepreneurial life, and the underrated role of likability in the startup world.

Transcript

[Michael Chernow]

A very small percentage of people are willing to go out there and take a risk and like say, you know what, I got an idea that I'm going to bring to fruition.

[John]

I'm a big risk taker. I played sports, I made my living on my scholarship. Johns Hopkins was based on me taking risks and I was a risk taker. So when I then I would look, honestly, I would look at like the Forbes 500 magazine and I'd say, where are all the wealthiest people doing Forbes 500? They're either entrepreneurs, real estate, or like hedge fund guys. I said, I don't really, I'm not passionate about real estate. I know I don't want to go work in the finance. So I said, entrepreneurs. And I like this. This is like you eat what you kill. This is like you don't eat unless you kill something, a deer or anything. So I'm like, I'm going to do well in this environment because I'm going to out hustle the people. I'm going to be out in the streets on the weekends when I'm not a nine to fiver. And I could work at night. I work night. Right now. I work, put my kids to bed, I'll work for two hours. And I just think when it's a hustle game, I'm good at that because I think I could out hustle my opponents.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm Michael Chernow and this is the Creatures of Habit podcast.

[Podcast Narrator]

Our habits will make us or break us.

[Michael Chernow]

It's just that simple. I've lived on both sides of the tracks and have learned that the decisions we make on a consistent basis truly define who we are as human beings. On this show, I will be interviewing some of the most inspiring, motivating and.

[Podcast Narrator]

High performing humans I've encountered to share.

[Michael Chernow]

Their daily habits, routines and rituals that help them stay on top of their game and ultimately happy. So sit back, relax, and pay attention because what you hear over the next 30 to 45 minutes could potentially change your life. Let's go. Cane footwear is, it's a very, very unique and special thing, man. Like on my walk down, on my walk over here. Well, not walk. I mean, I ended up taking the train, but I was obviously anticipating you coming on the show. And I was in Williamsburg, Brooklyn and I saw three people wearing canes on the walk from my hotel to the train station.

[John]

That's great.

[Michael Chernow]

And what you did, I mean, forgetting about like how you spent years looking to create these things in the most sort of environmentally friendly way, which is super cool. I Mean, you make these shoes out of Brazilian sugar cane, which is super cool to think about. Are you like the first to utilize that as a medium?

[John]

Actually, all birds souls were made out of.

[Michael Chernow]

Okay, got it.

[John]

And we knew that. But I studied, you know, I hired, we, we. I hired a group to find us like materials that were renewable. They came back with sugarcane or algae. And so there was no compromise on the sugarcane. And that was all done down. A lot of it was done in South America and Brazil. And so, yeah, we went the sugar cane route. You know, it's renewable material. When you're done wearing canes, you can ship yours back after, you know, a year or two of wear and tear, and you could get a credit, $10 credit. And we make yoga mats out of those canes.

[Michael Chernow]

Wow.

[John]

And now we're making coasters. We're starting to get into other stuff as well.

[Michael Chernow]

I started seeing canes probably in, I guess, like in the beginning of the pandemic, I guess. 22, 20, 21, 2022. And I've got, you know, I'm in this world of fitness. Wellness influencer athlete Eric Kinman is an old good friend of mine. Brian Maza is an old good friend of mine. And these guys started wearing these shoes and I was like, what are those things? And I bought a couple of pairs. And dude, I'm just here to tell you that, like, I love the shoes. And right before the camera started rolling, you know, like, it's kind of, it's interesting when you think about something like a pair of shoes, right? Like we become, we become obsessed with our shoes. Shoes, sneakers, they're, they're almost, they're, they're like, they're anomalies in, in a weird way that people become massively obsessed with the things that they wear on their feet. Massively. Think about Nike, right? Like, they become obsessed with the things that they wear on their feet. And so, and these shoes. A story that I wanted to tell you was I, I've got a pair of boots that I've had for now, let's see, 2009, so 16 years. And it's a pair of Red Wing boots that I wore. I bought new in 2009 and I wore when building my first restaurant and after. And I built that restaurant with my business partner. We didn't have a contractor. Like, we built the place, right? And after wearing them through that six month period of time, they look like they were like 30 years old. I still have those shoes. I've sent them back to Red Wing to get the Soles replaced, like, five times. I won't let go of those shoes because they hold a special place in my heart. And I was thinking the reason why I wanted to tell that story is because I have. I just got a newer pair of canes, a white pair of canes with, like a speckle. And I took them with me everywhere. This summer we went to Denmark. This summer we camped in Denmark. We went to Lake George and camped. We went to Cape Cod and camped. And they're like the kind of shoes that like these shoes. They're a part of the experience. Right. It sucks when you wear shoes that suck. It just does. So not only have you created something cool, but you've created something that is going to be part of people's memories. Yeah, it's just. I know it sounds kind of cheesy, but it's a fact, man. Like, and the reason why I said, those boots I will have with me for I will never get rid of them. I won't get rid of it, you know? Yeah, that.

[John]

That's great. Yeah. Well, we only launched four years ago. We launched 21 June 21. We were launching, and Brian Mazza was like, oh, I have a fitness event in mid June. You should come down there, introduce the brand to all these guys and girls. So I did that. I flew down there and we were launching that Tuesday, like, right after, and I introduced the brand. I didn't know how people were gonna react to the brand because you never know. You know, this is the first time the public's seeing it outside, like our small circle. And people are like, you know, what the hell are those? Those are pretty cool. Those are cool. Those are awesome. Tell me about the attributes. Tell me about, you know, tell me all about it. How'd you come up with it? They made a sugar cane. They couldn't believe it. And then it just took off from there. You know, it took off and then, yeah, at that event, I met Eric Hinman. You know, we did at CrossFit in Miami. We did a. Like a Murph together. And then I just started developing a relationship with him. And he was wearing them organically. And we said, why don't we just get Eric more involved in the brand? And he's been great. But yeah, I mean, now we're starting to see it. You know, we work with 26 NFL teams. They all buy them for their players and their staff. And we work at ton of college football teams and foot basketball teams. They buy them other sports as well, lacrosse, soccer, basketball. So it just Evolved into, you know, more and more. And then we work with obviously, you know, a lot of fitness. Fitness is a big focus of ours. You know, runners. We were at the New York City Marathon, we had the Chicago Marathon this year.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm running the marathon this year.

[John]

You are?

[Michael Chernow]

Yes.

[John]

You gotta come to our expo setup. We'll have a cool expo and then we'll, we'll do a bunch of marathons and it's just evolving and it's going like you said and now the kids are starting to see it. And we watched the kids about only a year ago last April and the kids have taken off and now the kids are wearing it. They're seeing their adults, their parents or pro athletes wearing them. So they're wearing them and, and they love, like, people love putting them on after playing sports, playing hockey, playing lacrosse, football, basketball. And it's, you know, you let your feet breathe, they feel good in them. Your feet aren't sliding around. So, you know, when we built it, we didn't know what kind of reaction we were going to get. And it's been, it's been awesome. It's been, it's been great seeing people adapt it from all parts of life.

[Michael Chernow]

You call them recovery shoes.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

So how, like talk to us about that a little bit.

[John]

So, yeah, we see it as a third shoe in, I like for athletes. So you have your shoe, you do, you do like on field, like so, or a basketball shoe, you play hoops in or cleats, whatever. And then you have your training shoe which might be, you know, a running shoe or a lifting shoe. And this is a shoe that you would wear a cane you'd wear before or after working out. That's, you know, so before in the locker room, before, in the locker room, after you're recovering from a strenuous workout, you're letting your feet breathe. You know, we hired a podiatrist, Dr. Geller. We didn't hire him. He's part of our team and he, you know, he helped design the shoe with attributes to help you recover. Elevated heel firmer base with a two piece mold. There's nodes for stimulation, there's breathability there. Heel capture and all that stuff, you know, add up. It helps you, you know, recover after a tough workout. So it's better for you shoe than like a slip on or, you know, or some of the other EVA shoes out there.

[Michael Chernow]

Cane footwear is not your first rodeo. So let's just hear a little bit about your, your journey.

[John]

Yeah, I played college sports. I played lacrosse at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, graduated. I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I went to work here in the city. Solomon Smith Barney worked there for a year on the trading desk. I hated it. You know, I was at the desk at 6:40 every day and didn't leave till like, 5. Eating crap. You're stuck to a desk. I said to myself, there's no way I'm gonna do this the rest of my life. On the weekends, I was playing. The pro lacrosse league started, and I got lucky. I started playing pro lacrosse on the weekends and traveling to Denver or Rochester. And the owners of our team, the Bishop family and a guy named Jody Simone owns Lacrosse Unlimited. I. The Bishops, who owned Sobey, sold Sobey, and they were starting another brand up in Connecticut. And they said, why don't you. You know, I'd go out. I'd go out with them after games. We have drinks, ate burgers, and they said, why don't you come up to Connecticut? We'll be launching another brand, and you can learn how to start your own company. So I went. I moved up to Wilton, Connecticut. They started Blue Buffalo Pet Foods, and I was there. One of the first. I was one of six people in the office, launched Blue Buffalo. I was delivering product. I was going to. Going to Pennsylvania, where we produced our pet foods. And I saw how a company can start and then build and deal with issues from design to trademarks to cfo. I didn't know any of that stuff, so I learned a bunch there. And after like two and a half years, I left and I started my own company called Maverick Lacrosse. And we made all lacrosse equipment for players and of all ages. And, you know, now it's the number one brand in college. Maryland wears our gear. You know, all the big schools wear. Wear Maverick. But it started out small, and we. We got a lot bigger and then come to, well, Bauer Hockey pretty much bought us the big hockey company, biggest hockey company in the world. They wanted to get into lacrosse. They bought us and Kohlberg, which is a private equity group out of New York and Westchester. They bought all of us, and then they brought us public. So I learned sort of a ton during that whole process.

[Michael Chernow]

So I want to just. I want to pause for a minute and just talk about an exit. Yeah, right. So when. How old are you when you had the exit?

[John]

I was 34.

[Michael Chernow]

34, yeah. Were you working towards an exit? Was that the goal?

[John]

Yeah, I think it. I think it was. I didn't know. I mean, I was just grinding. I said, let's put our. It was. It was after five years of starting the company. So I told our team, let's just go five to 10 years, see where we're at. And then after five years, we were at an event, and the president of Kohlberg, which I didn't know, then said, we're buying a bunch of brands. We just bought a big hockey brand. We want to buy a lacrosse brand. And I said, who'd you guys buy in hockey? And he said, bauer. And I knew there big players in the hockey space. I said, all right, let's talk. And I said, holy shit. Like, they, you know, we just got approached to potentially get bought by a big private equity group. They're probably rolling up a couple companies and going public or doing something with them. They're interested in us. We're the only independent in the space. So he's like, let's talk this week. Give us a number. You think, you know, that would get the deal done. And then how. We were. We were still, like, grinding and growing and not even thinking about exit that early. We gave him a number. He said, Give us 24 hours. He said we could hit that number. And we're like, holy shit. And by. And then I was like, was that.

[Michael Chernow]

A number that you were. That was like a swing for the bleachers number or was.

[John]

It was high. It was based on, you know, 5x next year's projections. It was a number like, holy. Yeah. Where. You know, it was. It was life changing for me where I could buy a house, bought a place in New York City here. Bought a place at the beach where I saw you. Like, it was. It was. It was. It was enough to give me some freedom to now invest in some other brands.

[Michael Chernow]

So let's talk about that. I want to. I want to understand that. I think that that's such a. Selling a company is an entrepreneur's dream. Right. And I've sold two companies.

[John]

Yes.

[Michael Chernow]

And they, you know, at the time, for me, I sold my first business when I was 31, and it wasn't insane money, but it was. It was from starting a company with 20,000 bucks. It was a massive multiple from there.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

I want to just understand, like, when you sell a company for a lot of money, did anything change for you mentally?

[John]

I knew, like, people would probably have trouble hiring me again because they're like, this guy doesn't really have to do, like, he's not gonna listen. He doesn't have to listen. He has the freedoms now. You know, I was helping keith out over 10,000. A little bit. They were launching their brand, and I was sort of like, in a position where no one's really gonna hire me because they don't think I'm gonna hustle. Yeah. Hustle. Or listen. And they're gonna give me direction. I'd be like, nah, that's not the right way to do it. This is how we should be doing it. So I knew I had to start another company if I wanted to get back in the game. Like, they were not like, where am I gonna go work at a big company? Like, I had enough freedom. Where am I gonna go work at a 9 to 5 gig? It just wasn't gonna happen at that point. I wasn't gonna do that.

[Michael Chernow]

But did you even consider that?

[John]

No. I stayed on with the company for three more years.

[Michael Chernow]

Okay.

[John]

But I. We set up an office here on 24th and 10th with this beautiful office, and we started growing. And I knew. And then eventually they were like, we're going to move this up to New Hampshire where Bowers headquarters are. Do you want to come or go? Do you want to. You want to come with us or this is the end of the road for you here? And I said, yes, I'm not going to probably move up to New Hampshire. I love it up there, but just. I'm too. I'm at that stage of my life. And so that was the end of that road. So now I'm not getting paid anymore. You know, I had to reinvent myself in some ways.

[Michael Chernow]

And so what was the next business?

[John]

So I started to just see a lot of deals in New York City. Everybody was raising money from 10,000 to, you know, row Roman hair growth to all these. And I started dipping into a bunch of deals just to learn to see and how it all works. And what was becoming Hot health and wellness was obviously growing very fast. And, you know, I actually launched a tea business. I launched a tea business. I was like, I love tea. Why don't I launch a tea business? And we launched it, and we're in Whole Foods, Wegmans. It was doing good, but we were losing a ton of money.

[Michael Chernow]

Why?

[John]

Just that business is. That business is. You lose a lot of money before you make a lot of money. It's. It's. You could lose someone. One of the. Our attorney was like, you're gonna lose $10 million before you come above water. Like, it's just the way it is. You take a deep dip, spending and slotting and all this, and then marketing. And if you think about make it, you're selling a tea for $2, you're making 37 cents per or 50 cents. You gotta sell a lot of tea to pay all the bills. So you have to go back to your investors. Hey, it's. We're slowly showing some progress. It's moving off the shelves. And I didn't feel comfortable going back to my investors and being like, I think this is really gonna work. Like, I didn't know. And yet, can you write me a check for $5 million? Like, I didn't want to. I wasn't, I'm not comfortable doing that because it's just the risk. I'm a risk taker. But this was, it was too deep of a dive at that stage of, you know, I didn't want to, I didn't want. I like. And I saw other businesses, like, starting making profits on everything they sold. And direct to consumer was becoming like. Was monstrous. And I was, this is a product they can't sell. D to C. It's heavy. It's tough to ship. You know, you're not making any money. D to C. Because Tea. Yeah. Or beverages. So I cut my losses. We cut our losses before, and that was a big learning experience. The next one has to, Next company has to be D2C friendly. It has to be lightweight to ship. You know, it's got to be like, I, I built this whole thing, like all checkboxes gotta, you know, be health and wellness. It's gotta, you know, you gotta, you know, it's gotta be D2C friendly. It's gotta be Amazon friendly. Even though we're not, we're not on Amazon. But it's got to, you know, that's what, that's where this is going. And I want to take a deep dive to see if we got something. Like, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to spend $10 million or raise $10 million to do that. You know, I wanted something we could see in the beginning. It's showing a lot more progress. And so, so then we paused that, invested in some more companies. I saw, I also learned when I was investing with these other brands, I saw what was working over there. I saw what was working with this, a power brand, this fitness brand. And, and I said, okay, I see what's working. I got to create a product in this price point level, lightweight, shippable. And I, you know, and I love footwear. My family's been in the footwear business since, since the 70s. So my dad owns shoe stores. Cool. So I used to work in sneaker stores. Growing up in Brooklyn, Queens. And so I. I understood people's passion. To your point about footwear, they, you know, it's part of their uniform every day they love. And they. They don't have one pair. They have seven pairs.

[Michael Chernow]

I think people care more about their footwear than any other piece of clothing that they wear. Right, because, like, you can have a great T shirt, and that's awesome. But really, what ties the whole thing together is this is the shoe.

[John]

And selling shoes at my father's store in Queens, I saw how passionate people are about drops, new colorways, you know, and how marketing worked. And, like, I understood. Like, I've watched the commercials and. And now I learned from my learning there. And footwear has been in my blood. I said, you know, I gotta get back into footwear. And then you see, like, Crocs dominate the space. EVA space, dominate. So why don't we make an elevated shoe in the EVA space? You know, I like what those guys are doing. I don't. But we're gonna make an elevated shoe in that space. Pulling a podiatrist, just more thought behind it, the shoe where athletes can wear it. And. And how do we get there? And so we pulled in a great designer, podiatrist, ex eva, EVA expert, who understood where how to do EVA shoes. And we all worked together. We were all like 28th and Broadway just designing and figuring this out. And then that was during. Yeah, that was. That was, I think, beginning of. I mean, we. That was before COVID And then we launched right, like a couple of months after Covid hit. And then, you know, D2C was hot, obviously, and I think I got my timing right there, but.

[Michael Chernow]

And the shoes are definitely lightweight. You barely know that they're on your feet.

[John]

Yeah, they're great. And then. But, yeah, we designed it in the city. We, you know, then we went to a 3D mold. I understood all this from my other company, Maverick, had to work with manufacturers. I wanted to be with a premier, you know, manufacturer in South America. A lot of German manufacturing from the Germans that moved down there, like, years ago. And so we wanted to be that tier one factory where I could speak to them. And so that's what we got. So we have great, like, a great product that's. That's constructed really well, and there's no issues. And it's been great. Dealing with Brazil instead of going to Asia every, you know, every six months.

[Michael Chernow]

Is there a moment that you can point to in the cane journey over the last four years? That you felt like, okay, this is right, this is gonna, this is gonna hit.

[John]

I remember when we launched and the first asset, we, we didn't make enough shoes. We launched June 15th. We'd set up numbers, we gave, I, we raised not that much money. I put in half and some investors put the other half. And when we started selling D2C, I saw the power of direct to consumer and advertising and I was like, crap, we're not gonna have enough shoes to make it through the end of the year. And we beat our numbers which like blew through them and I couldn't believe it. Like, we produced based on what we presented to our like investment team and our plan. I knew that and then I, then we did a big event. We did an event with Quavo, like the rapper. And he saw them and he was like, oh crap. He was like all into them and he's wearing them and everything. And I was like, okay, this crosses over to different, you know, different groups. And then Drake was just wearing them in the city. Like, so you sort of start saying like, this is, this could be bigger than just, you know, our fitness circle or whatever. Our team, like this can go outside team sports and sporting world and that's. We're looking to build Something that's here 50 years from now.

[Michael Chernow]

Is that the plan? Are you planning to, are you going to exit this one? Are you going to hold on to this one for a while, you think?

[John]

I'm going to try to hold on.

[Michael Chernow]

As long as possible until, until that, until that offer comes across the table. That's just beyond hopefully.

[John]

I mean, or, or do we, do we? You know, I don't dare to dream. Just get dividend checks every year and, and go that route. Yeah, I don't know. I don't, I don't. I just tell the guys, let's get to this year and then we'll, let's think five years out and just get there and then we'll come above board to see where we're at. And then we look at five year cycles and so we'll see where we're at in five years from now and just see where we're at and just keep building and growing and we're having a lot of fun with it. So, you know, we're starting to do some, we got some big plans for 26. So we, I mean, I never, I mean we'll see in the next couple years, but I would love to hold this as long as possible.

[Michael Chernow]

What have you seen in the direct to consumer world to be the most successful way of marketing a product. Like where have you guys seen the most success?

[John]

I think it's, I think working with micro influencers, not necessarily the monster ones that, you know, micro working with them. And I think bringing into, bringing your product into different sectors, like not just focusing on like we did something with a hunting company, 247 hunt, great brand out of Georgia. And it just, it just you activate, you know, a different audience. I think that is key. I think.

[Michael Chernow]

Have you felt that, that showing up at events with the product, has that been a massive needle mover for you?

[John]

I think it's very important. I come from that, I come from that grassroots background. That's what my foundation was hitting the streets every weekend. We're hitting the streets just getting in front of people because a lot of people want to touch and feel it. They want to try them on. So we're doing like the Diplo run clubs that, you know, those are big running events that turn into concerts, eight to 15,000 people, you know, all over the country. So we're doing stuff like that to introduce the brand to different audience. I think it's very important interrupting this.

[Podcast Narrator]

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[Michael Chernow]

Back to the pod. Are you able to point to direct attribution from those events?

[John]

We sell at all these events.

[Michael Chernow]

You sell at all of them.

[John]

And then we give. We'll give a code. Sometimes people, oh, you don't have my color here. And so we'll give a code, free shipping, plus maybe 10%. And then they'll. They'll order. And that expires this weekend. So they'll know it expires so that the events are big for us. We have two event teams and we're all over. All over the US Just different events and just getting in front of people. We're a new brand. Like, a lot of people don't know about us, so we have to do that. Like, we. You can't. I don't think you can win behind a computer. Like, you cannot win. You're not going to get rewarded just living behind a computer.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm with you. I hear that, right?

[John]

Like, you got to get in the streets. You got to get in front of people. You got to get. So that's where I built my last company was every, you know, on weekends we were hustling and in the streets in front of kids and athletes. And now we're doing it, you know, at marathons and.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, man, I mean, you're making me so excited because with meal one for creatures of habit, it's so hard to show up to events because traditionally when we do it, I'm in some kitchen somewhere at like midnight making oats for a thousand people, you know what I'm saying? And I need refrigeration. And so anytime we show up in an event, like, I gotta rent refrigeration to keep the oats cold. And so it's a pain in the ass and it's really, really difficult. However, we're launching a protein bar, which I'm super excited about, and that is just gonna give us an opportunity to just be at his. At a. At events year round, right? It's just like it's getting people product and then they're trying it right there and it's not going to require me. I mean, dude, over the last four years, because we just celebrated four years. Like, alas, over the last four years, the amount of times that I found myself alone in some kitchen somewhere making oats is like, you know, I mean, I love the grind of it, I love the hustle of it, but it's impossible to scale something like that. Right.

[John]

Unless I'm like, you'll remember that. And that helped you get to the packaged, you know, I mean, bar.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[John]

Because you. You saw. I think it's necessary and not everything's going to be a W. Right. Like, we go to some events and wasn't a great event for us, just that crowd wasn't clicking. But then we go to other events that now this isn't a good audience for us. Boom. People call. You were right. That worked. Like, we test out a lot of audiences, too.

[Michael Chernow]

I think we just got. There's got to be a creature cane out there, man. There's got to be a collaboration.

[John]

You guys got to bring the bars to the events.

[Michael Chernow]

We'll bring the bars. We'll bring the bars.

[John]

Hand them out. You know, we're in front of a lot of people. Yeah. And not just, you know, the hierarchies of the world where the running events, the flag football events, lacrosse events.

[Michael Chernow]

I think the youth sport thing is a big deal. We were briefly talking about that. You know, my sons are still young, but they're starting to, like, you know, another topic. Right. Like, we briefly touched on before the cameras are rolling, you know, this idea like, do you get your kids specialized into one sport and go all in on that, or do you. Do you mix and match and give them, you know, three different sports to play until they come to terms with the sport that they want to play and specialize in? My sons are 10 and 7. And unlike me, you know, I mean, I was just an athlete. I wanted to play all day long, all night long. I mean, I didn't have the greatest home situation. So for me, getting out of there was always a win. But I slept at sky Rink on 33rd street and 9th and between 9th and 10th Avenue multiple nights a week. I would sleep in the rink. I would, like, hide behind the bleachers and sleep in there and try to sneak into the men's open hockey at 11 o' clock at night, you know, so, like, I was, you know, and sometimes I say, man, I wish my sons were a little bit like that. But they're. They love being home so much. Like, our house is like, they love just hanging with mom and dad. That, like, I don't blame them for not wanting to, you know, be out of the house and playing sports all the time. That said, I think, you know, youth sports is so important. And, you know, one of our investors is deeply involved in youth sports, and we're hoping to sort of seep into that world because I Think, you know, when we think about nutrition, not every parent is thinking about, like, how am I. What fuel am I giving my kids to perform better? Right.

[John]

I think you're right. Yeah. I think. I think, you know, these kids, I go to these tournaments and I have four kids, 10, eight, five and three, four girls. And like, we have to, like, steer them between games to eat healthy. A lot of kids are going to, you know, the fast food place. Yeah. And you're like, you're a game in an hour and a half. What are you doing? Like, I think. And then as you get older in high school, hopefully you start learning. Like, I gotta eat. Right. I think it's gonna come down as well to where kids are gonna start eating cleaner, you know, as is, you know, in the seventh, eighth grade, maybe even lower. But I think there's something there. People are taking these sports very seriously.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. Well, when I was talking to one of these guys at Hoop Culture who's, you know, in the au, and they go to all the tournaments and he was telling me, you know, sometimes there's 8,000 kids at these massive 350 teams at these massive tournaments, and they gotta be in the facility for three straight games. So they're playing three games. They gotta be in there. And the food there is like, hammers, you know.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

It's like, it's just not good. He was like, there are no protein bars there.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Like, I'm like, come on. He's like, there are no protein bars there. I'm like, are you serious? There's no.

[John]

Definitely not for sale. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. He's like, there's no protein bars. So it was like. You know, I just think that, like, there's a. There's a. It's untapped because the education isn't there yet. Right. Like, it's hard also, quite frankly, as a father, you know the deal. Like, it's hard to get your kids to want to eat anything that's not pizza, pasta, bread and butter, you know, like, that's what they want. My kids, you know, like, one of my sons, he's a savage. He is a beast. Like, he's a beast. He will eat anything that you put in front of him. It doesn't matter. He doesn't care. If it's oysters, steak, that's great. Salmon, raw sushi, fruity pebbles will eat anything. My. My older son, particular, like, that is an understatement.

[John]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

He will starve. He will starve.

[John]

What does he. Does he.

[Michael Chernow]

He. His favorite thing to eat on the planet is chips and guacamole. That is his favorite thing to eat on the planet. But after chips and guacamole, rigatoni, pasta with butter. Don't give him tomato sauce. Don't give him pesto. Olive oil, pizza, olive oil. He'll have rigatoni with olive oil. But, like, you know, he'll starve. He just won't eat.

[John]

That's great.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm like, dude, like. And it's so funny to see the difference between the two of them. My. My younger son, who's seven, he's got three inches on his older brother, and he's got, like, 40 pounds on him.

[John]

Oh, wow. Because he's eating. You think he's.

[Michael Chernow]

He's just eating and he's. He's just.

[John]

Your weights. Definitely.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, Like.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

My. My wife. My wife is tall and she's Danish. And her whole. Her whole family, all the men are like, six, four. So every time I'm in Denmark, I'm like, yes, everybody's bigger than me. All the women, all the men, they're all bigger than me. My younger son took after my wife's genes for sure. I mean, he's going to be, like, six, three. There's no doubt. I mean, he is a monster in his class. He's just a big, big boy. And my youngest son, Finn, I mean, my oldest son, Finn, he's going to be like me. He's going to be fast. He's a great athlete.

[John]

But the nutrition affects your height, affects your bones, right?

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. No, there's no. Look, seeing how Dakota eats and he doesn't eat, we don't feed them unhealthy shit. Like. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't knock anybody for this, but my kids have never seen the inside of a McDonald's. They just haven't, you know, And. And that's because I am so passionate about nutrition personally, that, like, I'm like, I could feed them better food for less money than taking them to McDonald's and going to spend eight, nine bucks on something that I just know is going to just definitely destroy them. You know, you had mentioned, like, I'm not a hireable guy.

[John]

I.

[Michael Chernow]

Right. Like, I'm not a hireable guy.

[John]

I got.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, But I would. I would argue to say that you probably never were. And, you know, I would imagine that that was, you know, because I was actually a hireable guy only in environments where I could do what I wanted to do.

[John]

Yeah, exactly.

[Michael Chernow]

Like in the job that I had before I opened up my first Business. There was no boss, there was no rules. Yeah, the inmates ran the establishment. And I thrived in that environment. It cut my teeth. That's where I learned how to be an entrepreneur.

[John]

Eat what you kill.

[Michael Chernow]

Eat what you kill.

[John]

Exactly.

[Michael Chernow]

What do you think? Like, the mind of an entrepreneur. Like, why do you think you were drawn after working at Blue Diamond, Blue Buffalo to want to go out and do your own thing? Because, look, a very small percentage of people are willing to go out there and take a risk and like, say, you know what, I got an idea that I'm going to bring to fruition.

[John]

I'm a big risk taker. I played sports. I made my living on my scholarship. Johns Hopkins was based on me taking risks, and I was a risk taker. So when I. Then I would look, honestly, I would look at like the Forbes 500 magazine. I'd say, where are all the wealthiest people doing Forbes 500? They're either entrepreneurs, real estate, or like hedge fund guys. I said, I don't really. I'm not passionate about real estate. I know I don't want to go work in the finance. So I said, entrepreneurs. And I like, I like this. This is like, you eat what you kill. This is like, you don't eat unless you kill something, a deer or anything. So I'm like, I'm going to do well in this environment because I'm going to out hustle the people. I'm going to be out in the streets on the weekends when I'm out of nine to fiver. And I could work at night. I work night. Right now. I work, put my kids to bed. I'll work for two hours. And I just think when there's, when there, when it's a hustle game, I'm good at that because I think I could out hustle my opponents.

[Michael Chernow]

Do you think that you're obsessed with the hustle? Like, do you think that you. Do you think that you're more like. I know for me, walking into every single day running a company, I am just fired up about the Hunt and lifting up the rocks. Like, that is what excites me. It really excites me to just know that the success is contingent on how well we perform, not on anything else. So what rocks are we lifting up? What are we finding underneath and how are we receiving it? Right. Like, do you think you're obsessed with that piece, the Hunt?

[John]

I think I'm competitive. I like, I love the competition. And I, and like, I make. Whether it's true or not, I think it's true. People want to kill us. Right. They want to kill my company. They want to kill. And so I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna make sure this thing does well. I'm competing. They're trying to beat us. They're trying to, like. And I just. I get very competitive, and I just out hustle them. And I love the competition. The out. The. The co. Like, I like the freedom of let me take my bets. And then, you know, I think I'm gonna get it right most of the time. It's not gonna be right all the time, but I think nine out of 10 times I'm gonna get it. I make the correct or the right decision.

[Michael Chernow]

Do you tend to lean into your gut, or are you a data guy?

[John]

A little bit of both. My gut is usually I'm starting to look at data more now, like, just, oh, wow, this. You know, I could tell now we have stuff that could be this. You know, we can. We could see where it's scaling and heat maps. And now I'm looking at stuff saying we should double down these areas. And. But I Usually a lot of it is gut, especially with personnel and, like, hiring people and. And. And, you know, partnerships we should do and relationships. I think that's all. It's all you got. You know, it's like, we have a good relationship. You know, let's do something. Like, it's. So if it feels right, you know, I think that I lean on God a lot.

[Michael Chernow]

I just did a solo podcast episode before you walked in the room about being likable.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And how important.

[John]

Yes.

[Michael Chernow]

I feel like being likable is.

[John]

Yes.

[Michael Chernow]

And you look at some of the. The most wealthy people in the world, right?

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Not all of them are likable.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, in many.

[John]

In a lot of cases, like, three people. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

But in a lot of cases, you know, they're. They're actually. They're not necess. They're not likable. Right. But I believe that being likable is such an asset as you are building your career as. Whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're an employee. Like, how important is being likable for you? When you're thinking about hiring someone?

[John]

It's. It's huge.

[Michael Chernow]

Is it more important than their performance? I think, like, their rap sheet.

[John]

Yeah. I think being likable. We're hiring for a position soon, and I met the person and extremely likable. Successful in what he does, but he's very likable. And I could train him. I Could teach him how this works over here in this world. I can't teach him personality and how to interact with others. He's got that, that's, that's the hard part. Like, I could teach him the other stuff. A lot of it's blocking and tackling and dealing with bigger numbers or whatever, but it's all the same stuff. And so we're dealing with pro teams, pro athletes, they want to deal with likable people. And like one of our athletes is very likable comes to mind, Jeremy Hills. Jeremy Hill played football at Texas. Most likable. Always in a good mood. Like, he's always in a good mood. So now like, you know, from Jeremy, working with him, get introduced to Marvin Harrison Jr. You get introduced to all these other pro athletes, Mika Parsons, all these guys, because they all love Jeremy, you know, and then Jeremy and I get along really well. I think likability is huge. Because if you're not likable, how are you supposed to do deals together? We're front facing. Unless you're a finance person behind closed doors. Like. But we're all front facing. We're trying to build this thing out in the streets and in front of people. I think likability is huge.

[Michael Chernow]

That's advice to the asshole listening to this podcast. Like, if someone, you know, if you're an asshole, chances are you know you are. Right. Because like people tell you probably a lot.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And there are just assholes out there. I believe that assholes have an opportunity to actually shift. It might not be overnight, but like, I think it's really just a filtering system. Right. Because most people, when you're, when you're an unlikable person, it's typically based on the words you use in the way you use them. Right. Like that's just what it is. Right. Like people find words are everything. So for the unlikable person, you just now saying likability is at least 50% of the thing. What can you tell someone that you.

[John]

Know is like in some businesses, like in finance, a lot of those people are most successful are kind of assholes. Yeah. Short, they're cutthroat. They don't care about you. I want to know anything. They just want to. Everything's about dollar and cents. Like, how much money you gonna help me make? And all that good stuff. Building a company is way more than that. It's. You have to be likable to get to the next step or to get to the next, you know, because people like you, they introduce you. Even if the Deal doesn't work with that group. They introduce you to this group and that's what happens to us all the time. And it's. And for the person that's being an asshole, it's not gonna work. It's gonna be tough to work in, in the environment, in. In the startup world because you're like, you need help. You need as much help as you can get. And your hand has got to be. If you're an asshole, people are gonna be like, I think they could be like, help that guy. Like, I don't know. I'm not gonna help that guy. I only have so much time on my hands. Like, I'm gonna help the people that are good people. Good karma. And I think that's a big piece. Likability is huge. And so, yeah, if you're gonna get into this space, you can't. I don't think you'd be an asshole. No one I know, from apparel brands to beverages to snacks to, like, they're all mostly good people just trying to climb the mountain, which is very tough. And you need as many hands as possible to help you climb that mountain. Do you.

[Michael Chernow]

Can you recall over the years of being a business owner, a time where you had to let somebody go fire somebody that stands out to you and what you like, how you did it?

[John]

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's never tough. I'm sorry. Never easy. You know, I just, I go back to. I put it on them. I asked them, first thing, I said, do you love what you're doing? And I say, do you love what you're doing? Do you love doing this? Because I'm sensing you're checking out on Fridays at 5 and I don't hear from you till Monday, and we're going seven days a week a lot of times in these startups to make sure we win. Like, we're interacting. I said, if you don't love what you're doing, that's okay. Let's trick, let's. Why don't you do something you do love? Let's talk about what you love doing. And I try to like, get them to come around to, oh, you're right. I really love just, you know, doing CrossFit or this or that. And yeah, then that's what you should be doing. Go do something in that space. Like you live, live once. Go do that. You don't have to be. You know what I mean? This is what we're doing. I need people that are bought in that want to be here because it's so obvious to people that want to do it. And they're texting you on Saturday afternoon at 7. Do you see this? Do you see this guy? Like, this weekend I got two text messages. Josh Allen was wearing canes in a Pepsi commercial, which was big. And then yesterday, like, just stuff on.

[Michael Chernow]

The weekends, you got to get some canes to Jackson Dart, baby.

[John]

My guy, we love Jack Start.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, gotta get him some. Some canes, man. I gotta get him some meal one. But, man, I'm so excited for that guy.

[John]

The but I think. I think it's having an honest conversation with them and be like, is this where you want to be? And like, that's when I like. Cause you sort of get it out of them that, you know what, man? This is. I just want to do this and like, go do it, dude. Go. You live once. Why are you wasting your time here? And I have conversations like that. I've had those twice. And I can remember that popped in mind. But I like, because you're not, you know, you're not engaged as much as this is a startup, this thing's breathing D2C seven days a week. We gotta grind here.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, I have used very similar tactics over the years. When I was. When I was in the restaurant business, you know, I had 700 employees between the restaurants, and it was a lot of employees. And I didn't have years and years of experience managing hundreds of people. So I was kind of thrown into the. Into the den. And I am a good guy.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And so for me to just be like, boom, fire. You know, hit the bricks, like, that's just not who I am. So I had to figure out ways to actually make people feel like it was a decision that they chose themselves. Right. And I will say the one thing that I am confident in as a founder is seven out of 10 people that I've had to fire. And there's been a lot over the years, right. I've probably hired over a thousand people and fired maybe 300. The one thing that I feel confident in is that 7 out of 10 people that I have fired in the past would come and work back for me again. And I think if you could think about it that way, how can I let this person know that what they're doing here isn't working and this is not going to work. How can I let them know that without hurting their feelings and making them feel bad and then potentially even think about it as in the event that maybe one day they'd want to come back after some time off because I hired them for a reason. They're on the team. I brought them in because I really liked them. I think that's always an interesting thing to talk about entrepreneurial wise. But I want to just get into, into routine with you a little bit because you know, athlete, entrepreneur, husband, father. I would imagine that routine and habits have played a role in your life.

[John]

Yes.

[Michael Chernow]

What does a morning typically look like for you?

[John]

So now every morning I have to work out. I don't go to work unless I work out. Like I have to do either. Like this morning did four miles in the park. I have a trainer I work out with two, three times a week for weights, but every morning I have to work out. And I learned that from someone, a big athlete who's now in the business world. And he was like, I don't do anything until I work out. Just get, you know, get the stress de stress clear my mind, get my fitness, my body where it needs to be and then I'll start my day. And so I was like that makes sense.

[Michael Chernow]

When did that happen for you?

[John]

That happened like four years ago.

[Michael Chernow]

And before that, what was, what was your morning like?

[John]

I used to work at it, I mean back in the day, working at night, you know, and I thought that was like I used to go to work, I wake up, not probably not eat the healthiest meal, you know, get like a bar or something from like Starbucks and then have a coffee and now I try to eat lighter. But back, I mean back then I would, and then I'd go, go to work till like 5 and go train at like 5:36. And I was, thought I was, you know, I was single then and I was then go eat at like 7:38 and then I would watch some TV and then go to bed. But now it's totally different and I'm just, I think, I think it's, I think working out in the morning is the best time. And so I've actually have a peloton in my office. So I wear the days off or something if I don't walk or I'll hit the peloton for 45 minutes. We have a peloton treadmill as well. And so if I don't, you know. But my mornings now are get the kids ready on the bus by 8:30 and then go work out till 9:30. Then we have showers at work. So I'll just change at work and then I'll be at work ready to go like 10 o' clock and then I'll work until like 5:30. And then I'll go to one of my kids. Sports is always something going on. And I'll feed them. They'll go to bed by like 9:15. And then I'll go do. I'll do like at least an hour's worth of work. I answer a bunch of emails, get ready for the next day, clear everything out so I can focus on the big things the next day. Because you got all these emails coming in like, oh, can you help us whether. Whatever it might be. I clear those out. Like, I don't want to deal with the next morning. I want to, I want to focus on the big things. Like I got to take. And I always tackle the biggest things first. I like line them up. These are the five things. And I go big, you know, biggest, you know, big, big, big. And then I, I go after the hardest things first. And then I get, Then I, you know. But I work out every morning. I have to work out. It's. And then I try to eat clean in the morning.

[Michael Chernow]

I gotta get you some of this stuff, man. Yeah, I think it'll, it'll. You'll enjoy sleeping.

[John]

I need this.

[Michael Chernow]

I'll get you to sleep too.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But yeah, that's, that's my habit. I mean. And then, you know, I used to go out in the city a lot, drink, hang out, go out, be hungover. Those days, kids and, you know, my beautiful wife, like, I don't got. We don't got as much. We go out to dinner and we'll be home by 10 o'. Clock. That's like a big night, you know, that's like. Which is fine. We, you, you. I don't go out as much, which is good. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You're born and raised in the city.

[John]

I was born in Brooklyn. I lived in Brooklyn for 10 years and then I moved to Long island when I was 10.

[Michael Chernow]

Okay.

[John]

My dad's store started doing really well and he worked for Pepsi and did both. And he was Hustler. He worked for Pepsi, had a route in Brooklyn and then he had a store. He'd do both. Trying to like.

[Michael Chernow]

It's in the blood.

[John]

Yeah, yeah. And so he did both and then he started doing pretty well. And then we wanted to. A lot of families started moving out to Long island, so we moved out there, moved out to Manhasset, and it was great. And as I introduced a lot lacrosse, which is like the biggest thing out there. And so I start playing and all of a sudden got pretty good at it. And I started getting scholarship offers so, but yeah, I think having the habits. Eight hours of sleep is like a must. I gotta go to bed, I gotta. And then eating cleanly, like, not eat now. I don't. I won't eat after. Like, try not to eat after, like 7 o', clock, which is probably too. But you try to. You learn as you get older, like, what to do, like the right habits are, and try to eat as healthy as possible.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, it's crazy. I. I have been training. I got sober when I was 23, so I've been in recovery for 21 years. When I got into recovery, I was immediately introduced to this world of fitness, wellness, nutrition. That's what saved my life, quite frankly. I mean, the sober community for sure. But really what I sunk my teeth into was this fitness, nutrition, great world, ultimate mindset world. Right? And like, there I. When I really think back on, if there's, if there's anybody listening that is like struggling in any way. Right. It could be in work, it could be in a relationship. It could be like, just personally, in general, I really do think that fitness is. It is just the solution and it does not discriminate. It's not like, oh, it's good for this kind of person and not this kind of person. For me to hear you say, you know, I just, you know, I can't, I can't. I can't start my day without working out. It's literally like taking an antidepressant.

[John]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, and for me, it has been that for the last 21 years. It has truly been like, if I'm not feeling well, I know for sure. Training and eating a good meal, a healthy, clean meal.

[John]

So good. Right.

[Michael Chernow]

It's just, it's just a game changer. It's just what it is. And, and it, and, and there's not a single person that I can point to that would be like, nah, yeah, nah. That has experienced it. Now that there's a. There's way more people that don't believe it because they haven't actually given it a shot. But I do think habitually, you know, the people that listen to this podcast probably are already doing the do, or at least interested in doing the do and getting involved in those things. But if there's anything that I can point to as to what has been the catalyst to my happiness in life and then ultimately success. Working out. Neat and right.

[John]

I mean, working out, you feel so good. Sweating everything out, you feel like, you know, like a shell come off you. It feels, it feels so good. So I Have to sweat every day. I want to sweat everything. The toxins out, everything that, you know, anything that needs to come out. I try to get it out every morning and I love it. I think it also clears your mind. Like you're just in a better mood.

[Michael Chernow]

What I've started doing, which has been really interesting, is I don't use headphones anymore when I train, when I lift weights, when I run. Yeah, I don't because it's so rare to get blocks of time without either people in my, in my ear, kids in my ear, wife in my ear. So being able to be alone with my thoughts, whether I'm training resistance or I'm on a run or whatever, it has been really incredible to just be with my thoughts that way, doing the things that I love doing alone.

[John]

Unless you're listening to Creatures of Habit.

[Michael Chernow]

Unless you're listening to Creatures of Habit podcast, of course.

[John]

But I do both. Some days I go, no headphones, no music. And some days I'll be like, I want to listen to this podcast. Or, you know, I want to listen to musician. You know. So I go back and forth. I do both. But I think you're right, though. It's something about being in nature and you hear in the leaves and the birds. It's, you know, it's also refreshing.

[Michael Chernow]

How can the, the community here get their hands on some canes? Where should they go?

[John]

Our website is always a great place. Canefootwear.com Kane with a K Kane with a K K A N E cane footwear.com we sell specialty running stores all over the U.S. now we own 325 Dick's Sporting Goods. We're in Nordstrom's, we're in Shields, D2C or if you want to go try them on if you're near a big marathon here like Chicago or come to the Expo. One of these expos in Miami, New York, Chicago, Houston, Austin, you know, Boston will be. Come to the expo. Check out the shoes. That's probably, you know, or yeah, yeah. Where you could see where we're going to different events. You know, we go to football events, basketball events, but yeah, or buy men online is probably the easiest if you're not near one of those big, big stores. Cool.

[Michael Chernow]

And then for people to follow along your journey. Are you active on social media?

[John]

Pretty active. I, I, I, I, you know, I give the. Every month I'll give like I, I not as actively could be or should. No, I just, you know, it's more family and, and I talk about business and stuff.

[Michael Chernow]

Like that.

[John]

But I. I have to get better at that, you know? You know, I talk more through Kane than I do through my personal. Because, you know, founders content does really well now, and people want to see who's behind the brand. Tell me the story. And. And so we've been doing a lot of shooting, you know, with me and at the office and at different events, and we play that on social, and that's been doing real well. But I mean, to people who. Listen, I know you got a lot of people who want to start their own company or do their own thing. I think it's. I think the best way to do your own thing is to have, you know, do. Do your. While you're in your current job, have. Maybe have a side hustle. Like this is your side hustle, where you bust your ass, get it going, and then you could potentially drop your current gig. That is probably the smartest transition. So you have some income coming in to feed your new business, and then you just got to go step by step. Don't look at the whole mountain. Just look at the step in front of you and the step in front of you. Just go to, like, certain points and get confidence and. And just make adjustments. And it's. It's. It's. It's not impossible. It's just. And then you figure out a lot of stuff as you go. How to set up an llc, bank accounts, trademarks, patents. You just figure it out. A lot of it you could just figure out talking to people, being a good person, you know, getting likeable friends. Yeah. Being likable.

[Michael Chernow]

John, this has been awesome, man. I really appreciate you. You coming on the show, what you've put out there, it's an incredible product. I love them. I gotta get some pairs for my kids. They were jealous of me. We will this summer and. Yeah, man, I can't wait to see what you do with it, dude. It's been an inspiring journey to watch.

[John]

Yeah, let's. Let's stay in touch and we'll do this every year. Maybe we'll do at the beach next year.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, man, we got. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be hounding you for a creatures cane collab. Dude, we're gonna do that.

[John]

I want to get. I want on one of these bars.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm gonna get them. I'm gonna get them to you and.

[John]

We'Ll check it out. But yeah, definitely. Let's. Let's talk about it. Come some of our events.

[Michael Chernow]

Totally 100.

[John]

I really appreciate you having me on the podcast and yeah, if anyone wants to DM me personally, they have any questions about anything I talked about or Mike, just, you know, hit us up and we'll take it from there.

[Michael Chernow]

Awesome.

[John]

Thank you, guys.

[Michael Chernow]

Ladies and gents, another one in the books. Cane footwear. I was really excited to get to sit down with John, another entrepreneur that is a New York City born person. We're sort of born with this concrete in our blood where, you know, no doesn't exist in the vocabulary. We rarely take that for an answer. And we grind until we get to the. Get to the stuff that we're looking to do. And it's always fun for me to sit across the table from somebody who has that mentality and mindset. And by the way, like this, the. The. The fallacy or myth that New Yorkers are assholes, it's wrong. It's actually wrong. The people that move to New York are assholes. Most New Yorkers, the greatest people on earth. And I'm glad to say that I got to sit across the table from John for the last hour to sort of cement that into reality. I appreciate you guys so much for tuning into the podcast. It really means a lot subscribing to the podcast. What I'm gonna ask you to do is to share it with a friend, family member, send it to your mom, send it to someone who you think would appreciate this. Send it to an entrepreneur that you. That you know, or potentially an entrepreneur aspiring to do something on their own. Maybe share it with your kids. If your kids are interested in getting into the world of entrepreneurship, sharing the podcast is the rent I ask you to pay for. Listening means a great deal when you do it, and I see it when you do it, especially when you post it on social media. Five star rating in a review, cherry on top. That would be awesome. Anything less than a five star rating in a review, please don't publicly put that out there. You could DM me and tell me how much you hate me. I'm happy to take that. I love you guys. I appreciate you guys. Until the next one, y'. All, Peace.