Michael Chernow: “I Overdosed… Then Used Again 4 Hours Later”

Summary

Podcast Summary
The Michael Chernow Podcast
Episode: “I Overdosed… Then Used Again 4 Hours Later”
Release Date: August 5, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this intensely personal episode, host Michael Chernow shares his own harrowing journey through addiction, trauma, and recovery. With candid honesty, Michael details a childhood marked by abuse, his teenage years spent deep in New York City’s party and drug scenes, and the near-fatal heroin overdose that finally forced a reckoning. Through exploring themes of pain, self-medication, fatherhood, mentorship, love, and lasting transformation, Michael offers hard-earned wisdom for anyone struggling, as well as for listeners seeking greater empathy and understanding.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Addiction and Childhood Trauma

• Early Exposure & Escapism (01:00 – 07:00)
  • Michael recounts smoking weed at age 12 with friends. Drugs quickly became a way to mute pain from an abusive father and a violent home.
  • Quote:

    “It kind of went from there... when I got into high school, that’s when I would say, you know, what someone would potentially call drug reliance.” (03:40)

• Entrepreneurial Spirit Directed to Drugs
  • Michael began dealing acid and mushrooms to buy more for himself. He hid drugs in CD cases and created an underground network during high school.
  • The party scene and selling drugs led to riskier behavior and crowd.
• Attempted Self-Harm as a Cry for Help (05:15 – 09:30)
  • At 12, after a fight with his father, Michael cut his wrists in front of him—desperate for attention rather than suicidal.
  • Quote:

    “I just wanted... this was a cry for help. I wanted my father to love me.” (08:20)

---

2. Parental Pain and Lessons for Parents

• Lack of Attention as Core Issue (09:55 – 13:18)
  • Michael urges parents to recognize that kids mainly want their attention, not gifts or trips.
  • His own mother tried her best despite working long hours and suffering abuse.
  • Quote:

    “All these kids want in life at that age is their parents attention. That’s it.” (10:46)

• Dedication to His Own Sons
  • He describes coaching all his kids’ sports, dividing school pickups, and constantly being present, correcting what was missing from his own upbringing.

---

3. Early Realization of Addiction

• Self-Awareness & Early Rehab (17:40 – 21:14)
  • Michael knew by age 16 that his use was problematic; he attended his first outpatient rehab and AA meetings as a teenager.
  • Quote:

    “...when I did it, I didn’t want to stop ever. So I would want to go for days.” (17:48)

  • Many friends from those times either got sober or have since died from addiction.

---

4. Overdose, Rock Bottom, and the Turning Point

• Near-Death Experience (21:19 – 23:19)

  • Michael describes a 2004 heroin overdose:

    “I looked over to my right and I saw my image in the mirror... from my forehead to my toes was white like paper... I jumped up... and boom, out.” (21:27)

  • The woman he was with was too afraid to call an ambulance; he survived after being splashed with cold water for 20 minutes.

• Using Again Just 4 Hours Later (23:26 – 25:01)

  • Despite vowing to never use again after the overdose, he relapsed hours later, illustrating the cycle and power of addiction.
  • Quote:

    “Four hours later, I was using again. I didn’t know how to stop. I just didn’t know that there was a way.” (23:42)

• Internal Self-Hatred and Moment of Change (25:48 – 29:04)

  • After a dark two weeks and failed attempts to quit, a moment of disgust with his reflection almost led to a suicide attempt.

---

5. The Role of Mentors and a Structured Path to Recovery

• Help from a Surrogate Father and Mentor (Frank & Marcus) (29:21 – 33:25)
  • Restaurant owner Frank, a central figure, fired Michael but encouraged him to get sober, offering a cleaning job if he did.
  • Marcus, a sober friend’s boyfriend, arrived, listened, and outlined a strict recovery plan focusing on:
    • Early rising, bed making, prayer—even if not religious
    • Physical routines: pushups, walking, Muay Thai training
    • Healthy, basic nutrition (oatmeal, chicken, broccoli)
    • Daily AA meetings
    • Simple, repeatable actions every day to replace old habits
  • Quote:

    “He wrote a plan hour by hour... if you can do that, you’ll build a life way beyond anything you think is possible. And he was right.” (36:55)

• Fitness and Nutrition as Tools for Recovery (33:34 – 41:44)
  • Michael credits the discipline of daily routines—fitness, food, faith—as critical in keeping him sober.
  • First true feeling of freedom came 30 days sober, lying on his apartment floor:

    “For the first time, I felt freedom. First time in my life, legit. And I felt free.” (39:17)

---

6. Common Misconceptions and the Psychology of Addiction

• “Just Stop” and the Experience of Powerlessness (39:35 – 43:51)
  • Michael challenges the myth that addicts “just have to stop”:

    “Every single drug addict I know... has no interest in doing what they’re doing. They hate it.” (39:43)

  • Describes drug use as one of the only things users feel in control of, even though it destroys that very control over time.
  • Michael now channels that need for daily victory into health and positive relationships.

---

7. Love, Relationships, and Self-Worth

• Meeting His Wife in Sobriety (45:49 – 52:12)

  • Michael met his wife nine months after getting sober; credits timing and transformation for being ready for a healthy relationship.
  • She accepted his history, sobriety, and need for structure.

    “She taught me how to love. She Taught me what love is. My wife taught me that.” (57:53)

  • Sobriety played a pillar role in their lasting, healthy marriage, preventing drunken arguments common in other relationships.

• Self-Love as Precondition for Receiving and Giving Love (59:02 – 59:57)

  • Quote:

    “I think you have to love yourself in order to receive love from someone else. Because if you don't love yourself, you won't believe that anybody else loves you.” (59:02)

---

8. Gratitude, Service, and Humility

• Empathy for Others in Addiction (60:52 – 62:25)
  • Michael often helps those struggling on the street, emphasizing their humanity and paths that led them there.
  • He strives to be a “Marcus” for others, serving as support and mentor for people seeking recovery.

---

9. Advice for Those Struggling with Addiction

• Ask for Help & Get Back Up (62:52 – 65:44)

  • Keys to breaking out of addiction’s cycle:
    1. Courage to ask for help—not weakness, but strength, and rarely successful alone.
    2. The only thing you have to do perfectly is get back up. Every relapse or mistake can be overcome.
  • Quote:

    “I am a changed human... a living, breathing, thriving example of someone who wanted to die desperately, who overdosed on drugs... and I have changed a day at a time. All it took was for me to pick up the phone and call the right person.” (64:20)

• Life Is About Love (65:44 – 67:18)

  • Addiction, recovery, and personal growth all relate to seeking love and connection—to others, to oneself, to life’s meaning.
  • Quote:

    “This life we live is about loving and being loved. It’s a love game.” (65:44)

---

Notable Quotes

• On addiction’s grip:

  “Four hours later, I was using again. I didn't know how to stop.” (23:42 — Michael Chernow)

• On parental attention:

  “All these kids want in life at that age is their parents attention. That’s it.” (10:46 — Michael Chernow)

• On recovery:

  “If you can do that, you’ll build a life way beyond anything you think is possible. And he was right. I still do that. That’s my plan.” (36:54 — Michael Chernow describing Marcus’s recovery structure)

• On empathy and humility:

  “My story has kept me 100 humble. I’ve never let the successes that I’ve had over the years blow my head up to the point where I’m not ready to drop down and do 50 with someone.” (61:09 — Michael Chernow)

• On love’s role in self-worth:

  “Because she showed up in my life, it was a great example... now I could say, I could tell you without any shame, I fucking love the guy who’s sitting in this chair right now.” (59:38 — Michael Chernow)

• On perseverance:

  “There's only one thing we have to do perfectly in life, just one, and that's get back up.” (63:40 — Michael Chernow)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Early Drug Use & Childhood Trauma: 00:48 – 07:00
• Parental Lessons & Reflections: 09:57 – 14:44
• First Rehab and Early Realization: 17:40 – 21:14
• Heroin Overdose & Aftermath: 21:19 – 25:01
• Frank and Marcus, Recovery Structure: 29:21 – 33:25
• Sobriety, Fitness, and First Love: 36:55 – 52:12
• Empathy & Being a Mentor: 60:52 – 62:25
• Advice for Those Struggling: 62:52 – 68:18

---

Tone and Style

Michael's delivery is raw, unfiltered, and genuine—a blend of New York bravado, humility, self-awareness, and gratitude. He’s candid about his darkest moments but always steers toward hope, practical action, and the possibility of transformation. The episode is a testimony to the power of mentorship, human connection, discipline, and self-love, delivered with a grounded sense of service to others.

---

For listeners struggling or knowing someone in the grip of addiction, Michael’s story is a testament: there is a way out—often one structured, honest, and humble day at a time.

Transcript

[Michael Chernow]

An entrepreneur straight out of New York City, Michael Chernow. What's cracking?

[Interviewer 1]

Michael Chernow, thank you for joining us.

[Michael Chernow]

Thanks for having me.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, yeah. This is. This is going to be good, man, because I know you have a crazy story. It's inspiring. And I know your message is to really help people, so. So that's what we try to do. So we like having a shared conversation in that space.

[Interviewer 2]

So excited for.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm fired up.

[Interviewer 1]

Let's do it. I want to start with your story. And where did addiction start for you? What was the moment that you realized, like, oh, I kind of. I like this.

[Michael Chernow]

I mean, if I'm being totally honest, I think the first time I remember it was the summer between sixth and seventh grade, and I was really good friends with this girl, Danny Nash. She was like my best friend. Her parents kind of took me in as their surrogate son. They had a house in the Hamptons, and nobody I grew up with, really before that had a house in the Hamptons. I went to public school, you know, but they had a house in Bridgehampton. And we would go out there, and her older sister was like, a real hippie ally. I love that family. I love Allie and Danny. And I actually haven't really told this story much, but that summer, I mean, I was probably. See, I was probably, like, 11 or 12. It's probably 12. And Danny's older sisters, you know, smoked a lot of weed. And so I remember we somehow got our hands on some weed. It was probably from Ali. And we went across. Across the road, and there was like. It was like these, like these. These grassy, like, knolls, and there was nobody around. And we just smoked weed for the first time. And I fucking loved it. I loved it. And I knew that that was, like, what I was going to be spending some time doing. And it kind of. It kind of went from there. And, you know, I mean it very quickly. I probably didn't smoke a ton of weed in junior high school, but I was definitely smoking a lot of cigarettes and, like, weed every now and again. And then when I got into high school, that's when, you know, I started. I started doing freshman year. I remember the first time I took acid was at Roseland Ballroom for this rave that this dude took me to. And I had the best time ever. And, you know, my life at home was pretty up. My life at home was abuse. You know, my father was very abusive. It was a violent place. It was not a safe place. My father was physically and mentally ill. My mother was also had also Made the abnormal normal. She was abused by my father pretty, you know, pretty badly. Not he didn't, like, beat the shit out of her, but, like, he would, like, grab her, shake her, throw her. And the fight, the. The. Just the verbal violence at the house was a lot. You know, it was just growing up in that place was just. It was just a. Not. Not a safe environment. And so I always dipped out of there. I always found a way to, like, sleep over a friend's house is, like, spend as much time out of the house as possible. But really, you know, freshman year of high school was my first sort of, I would say, you know, entryway into, like, what someone would potentially call drug reliance. You know, I used. I used it because I wanted to mute out, you know, the stuff that I had been through already and the stuff that I was going through at home. And by the end of my freshman year in high school, because I think I'm inherently an entrepreneur, I very quickly realized that, like, people were going to Central park in the meadow to get, like, acid and mushrooms. And I was like, I'm gonna take care of that for everybody. So I would get orders on, like, Wednesdays from people. Fridays I'd show up with, you know, a lot of. And it was like, Friday after school, I'd just be, you know, I. I take care of everybody. And what I used to do is specifically with acid, I would, like. I would buy those burner CDs. You know, this is in the days of CDs, and I would buy the stacks of burner CDs, and I pop out the back, and there was always, like, a sheet back there. I pop out the back that the CD was sitting on, that black piece, and I popped it out, and I put the acid in there, and I pop it back in, and I just write, mixtape for Joan, mixtape for Sam Smart. And that was how I was just, like, selling mixtapes on cd. And that was kind of how I did it. And in high school, and I just got into this. I just started. You know, that obviously pushed me into hanging out with, you know, less savory human beings. But they were my friends when we were teenagers, and we would get a lot of trouble, but the drugs

[Interviewer 1]

over

[Michael Chernow]

the next two or three years, you know, really, it became like, a pretty much daily occurrence for me. And. And I remember, you know, we used to go to the summer of 1995. We used to go to the Roxy on Friday nights. I mean, I was fucking 14, 15 years old. You know, I was going to the Limelight on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, or Lime Tunnel on Tuesdays, Limelight on Wednesdays and the Roxy on Fridays. And we would end up in Washington Square park on Saturday mornings. You know, after the Roxy, we get out at like 5 o' clock in the morning. We'd all go to Washington Square and we, you know, we continue the park party there. And I remember being in that park really high and looking at whoever. I don't know who I said it to, but, you know, I, I looked at this guy and I was like, I'm like very happy to be addicted to chemicals. Like I said that, you know, and I just, at that moment in my life, like, I think it was the. I really do believe that the alcohol and the drugs and it was way more drugs early on because it was a lot easier to get drugs than it was to buy alcohol. So it was really party drugs. But it was, it saved my life, actually, because I got put into a mental institution at 12 for trying to cut my wrists. And that was not done specifically because I was suicidal. But the pain of my abusive relationship with my father was so intense that I thought that maybe cutting my wrists would wake him up. And I did it in front of him. And so it was a pretty, like. It's like a scene out of a movie, you know, we got into a fight. I called him into my bedroom and I had a scissor and I just went, bomb, bomb. And my thought was, okay, this is going to be enough to get him to want to hug me. And like, I wanted a hug. I wanted a hug from my father. And he beat, he beat the shit out of me. And so when I went to school the next day, the social worker that I've already been going to, she was like, what's going on with your wrist? Because I had bandages on my wrist. Obviously I didn't cut myself deep enough to die. You know, it was like a quick, like. Yeah, but she, she. I told her what happened because I wanted her to, I wanted a reaction from her because I was thinking, oh, maybe if I tell her, she'll. She'll have to call my father and be like, what are you doing to this kid? But instead, which I didn't think was going to happen, but I didn't know. I was, whatever, 12 years old. They sent me immediately to the, to the, to. To get evaluated at pain. Whitney. And so when I got there, I, you know, the doctors sat me down and they were like, so, do you want to die? Are you. Are you, you know, at risk of harming yourself. And I looked at these doctors and I told them what was going on at home and I said no, I don't want to die. If I wanted to die, I would have cut myself a lot deeper than I did. I just wanted. This was a cry for help. I wanted my father to love me. So interrupting this episode to share with you that Creatures of Habit finally launched our protein bar. It's called the Daily Bar. It's made with 20 grams of plant based protein, 3 grams of creatine. Yes, you heard that right. It also has 3 grams of creatine. It is incredibly tasty and clean as a whistle. All clean ingredients. Take this opportunity. Hop over to creatures of habit.com that's creaturesofhabit.com with a K and use code Kohpod20 at checkout for 20% off your first order back to the pod. Right at that time is when these kind of drugs came into my life. That actually gave me an opportunity to medicate the pain that I was dealing with and numb out the insecurity and the self doubt that like you know, I didn't want to kill myself. But who knows, maybe a few months beyond that without using substances, I would have just done it.

[Interviewer 1]

Wow.

[Michael Chernow]

And I'm grateful for finding drugs at that time. And I'm not saying that for anybody here listening you're like oh yeah, that's a great, that's, that's. But I am just being real.

[Interviewer 2]

I think being 12 years old and being that self aware of going to the hospital and be like no, I didn't want to kill myself, I just wanted love for my father is amazing. Like that's, I don't know, 12 year olds ain't thinking like that nowadays. It's way different.

[Michael Chernow]

No, can I say something though? And I think this is important for parents now being a father myself, I have two sons. I've got a 10 year old son and an 8 year old son. And what I have learned from my journey and also now being a dad is very simple. So parents turn the volume up on this. All these kids want in life at that age is their parents attention. That's it, that's all they care about. You know they might love getting a, you know, a pile of presents on Christmas, they might love going on vacation and they might love going skiing or snowboarding or by far and away setting that child up for success is paying attention to them when that, when you're in the room with them. That doesn't mean that like I'm a busy guy, I travel that doesn't mean that, like, oh man, like I gotta be there 100% all the time. Because it's just like a fact, right? Like busy parents have to work late, have to travel, whatever it is. But when you're there, attention is all they care about. And I didn't get that at all. My mother was working her ass off. She was a secretary in a dentist office for years and years. She'd get to work at 7am, she'd leave at 7pm My father had nothing to do with our childhood outside of bring pain and destruction. So it was left up to me to figure out how I was gonna find the love that I was looking for. And by the way, my mom, I love my mother. My mother and I have a great relationship and my mom tried her best, but she was also, she was diagnosed with abused wife syndrome. She was also caught in the crossfire here, you know, So I just want to say to parents, you know, like, if, if the one most. Go to the fucking games, go to the practices, pick them up from school, drop them off from school, go do things together, it doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have to be fancy. But like, the kids want attention. And I, I know that because of my childhood. Maybe I wouldn't have known that had I not gone through the things that I've went through. But ultimately, now, as a father and a parent, I pour my life into those boys. I coach both of their teams in all of their sports. I go to every single practice and every single game. If I'm not coaching it, I'm there on the sidelines and I drop them off at school. My wife picks him up from school, I put him down every other night because my wife and I split that up. These are the things that I didn't get as a kid. And I can't blame my 10 year, 11 year destruction path to almost death from an overdose. I can't blame that on my father. But I could certainly tell you that it was fuel. It was major fuel to my fire, you know?

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, it was a catalyst. Yeah. It's scary because we don't see it when we're kids of how much this is shaping our teens to our early 20s, the things that we're going through. And I've seen it a lot. Like I lost my mom when I was 12. So right around that time where you're going through a lot, like I went through a lot. And I've had kids that I grew up with that lost a parent at that age too. You can always, you can always go down the better road. And to judge a 12 year old at that time, you can't. And especially to look back at the 12 year old mind, it's like you don't know what you're doing. You have no idea how this is going to affect you in 5, 10, 15 years from now. But it's just, it's so crazy how like these, these big things that happen to you, these micro decisions, that was a catalyst, change your future. You know, I didn't, I didn't go into drugs and stuff like that. I could have, I could have ran from the pain, I could have done that. But like my dad was great, right? So like that was a huge thing for me where like my dad was my coach, he was, he would take me to all my practices and train me and, and pay for the sports, right? Like I had that support so I didn't have to do that. Kids that I know that lost a parent that didn't have support because maybe they lost their father and then the mom was going through it, they started hanging out with the wrong crew, started doing the drugs and now you look at them and it's like, damn, same thing.

[Michael Chernow]

But we have two different ways to just be mindful of is like, you know, by the time I was 12 and I had gone through a lot of shit already, I was self aware enough to be able to sit down with those doctors and be like, hey, this is the situation. But at 8, I wouldn't have been able to tell you that I needed love from my father. Like I don't, you know, how do you, you don't know? As a, as a young kid I had the first real conversation, real difficult conversation with my son last week. The first one where he really. And it made me so, even though it was hard to hear from him, it made me so happy that my son at 10 felt comfortable enough to say, dad, can I talk to you about something that's really bothering me? I was like, oh. And it was right as he was going to bed and his younger brother was asleep and he was crying and he was like, I don't feel like I fit in because I'm short. And man, at that moment I would have cut my fucking hand off to give him six inches right there. I would have just, God, take this hand, give that boy six inches. Because he is, you know, he is on the shorter side. I'm a short guy, my wife is tall, taller than 2 1/2 inches tall than me. My, his, his, his younger Brother is two and a half years younger than him, is taller than him. So he had this moment with me that was just moving, dude. He was telling me something that. A real feeling that was. That that was, like, digging at him. And, you know, we walked through it together. But it made me so happy to know that, like, he's having this. He's having these hard, tough, tough emotions, having these hard feelings, and he felt comfortable enough to. To take me and talk to me about it. I was not there at that age. And it's because I know firsthand that if I'm not paying attention to my son when he addresses me, when he talks to me, I'm missing the boat, man.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know?

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

It's a testament to how good of a father you are. Yeah. For the. For his son to be that young and to bring something up like that that's bothering him.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

You know.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. I want to. I want to fast forward a little bit to where your story gets a little darker and you're at the rest. You're working at the restaurant. And when did you realize that, like, yeah, drugs and alcohol, it was fun in the beginning, and it seemed harmless. And then it slowly started. You started to realize you had a problem. Was it around this, you know, early 20s age, where you, like, it became survival at this point instead of just like, this recreational escape?

[Interviewer 2]

No.

[Michael Chernow]

I went to my first outpatient rehab when I was 16. I went to my first AA meeting when I was 16. I knew that young, that this was a problem. I just knew it was a problem based on how much I was doing it. When I did it, I didn't want to stop ever. So I would want to go for days. And I just knew that it was an issue. Now, I grew up in Manhattan, so I gravitated towards the kids that were doing that too. So we all kind of had this awareness that, like, this isn't good. But we were all also kids, you know, 16, 17, just going hard and partying, you know, like, to be a

[Interviewer 2]

senior in high school and then have the self awareness to be like, I'm gonna have a problem. I gotta go to aa is insane to me.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. Well, you know, it was also the time, like, if you really think about it, right. Like, it was 1997, 98. Like, I was part of the kids era.

[Interviewer 2]

It was a different time.

[Michael Chernow]

Well, you know that I grew up. I grew up all over. I. I grew up on 87th street and First Avenue. And by the time I was 15, I'd moved out of My parents house. And so I moved to 9th street between B and C. And then I moved out to Brooklyn and then I moved back to the East Village. So I lived kind all over the city between Manhattan and Brooklyn. But the kids I hung out with from like, you know, 14, 13, 14 on was like Harold Hunter, you know, and that crew. And they were older than me, but I just kind of ended up in that circle and we just did not care much. So I think when I really started realizing it was like 16, 17. And you know, I had a couple of friends that were just actually getting sober. Like I have friends who are sober now. I'm sober 21 years, but I have friends who are sober like 32 years that got sober of 10 years before I did. And then I got a lot of friends that are dead. A lot, Like, a lot. You know, half of the friends that I had as a kid who went down the same path as I are dead. And they all, they all died. Really. You know, I got lucky and got sober young, 20, just before my 24th birthday. But those kids stuck around with it for a while. And the first one to go, like, we started seeing things happen with like Dash, Snow and you know, Kenji and Moose and like kids started dropping in like, like 2007, eight things started like people started dying. And that's kind of when oxycontins came in. And you know, the, the, the everybody's addiction graduated from like coke and, and, and alcohol to pills and heroin eventually. And then as soon as fentanyl hit the scene, it was like I was getting a call every two months that like, this one's dead, this one's dead, that one's dead. Found in the hotel room, face down in the apartment, you know. And fentanyl was the one that would show up in the toxicology report.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. So what was your closest near death experience?

[Michael Chernow]

I overdosed on heroin in July of 2004, the summer of 2004. And the girl that I was with didn't. Was too afraid to call the ambulance. And I knew what was happening when it was happening because I'd never felt like that before. And so I was sitting on the edge of the bed. I was naked. There was a mirror on the headboard. We have been doing heroin. I looked over to my right and I saw my image in the mirror on the headboard. And from my forehead to my toes was white like paper. And I had never seen that before. I, you know, I looked in the mirror and my, I'd be gray and green and Pale. But I'd never seen, like, my chest, my stomach, my legs, everything white. And so when I saw that, I, like, looked at my body to, like, check that, and it was. And so I jumped up because I was terrified. I was like, this is bad. I jumped up like that, and boom, out. And she. She. I remember, like, kind of like being like, call the ambulance. She dragged me into the bathroom and put me on my back in the bathtub and turned on the cold water. And she was crying, and I was in and out of consciousness. And, you know, I think she let the water run on me for, I don't know, 20 minutes. Luckily, I didn't. She said I stopped breathing. Luckily I didn't die. But that was. Yeah, that was the closest. And I'd had other experiences where, like, I felt like my heart was gonna pop out of my chest. And, you know, things like that when you're using stimulants and up for days. No food, probably no water, you know, I used to drink a lot of Orangina. That was my drink. I used to go to the corner, I'd be like, let me get five Oranginas. But, yeah, that was the worst. And. And I got sober two weeks after that.

[Interviewer 1]

So then what. What's going through your mind between those two weeks before you got sober? Like, what's the next day look like when you kind of come back to your senses?

[Michael Chernow]

When I left that apartment, I swore to God that I would never use drugs again. And I was like, dude, you've got way too much to offer. Like, you literally just flatline. This is insane. And obviously, I'm talking about it kind of calmly now, but in my head, it was racing. Like, you just died, Mike. How could you have let this get this bad? Imagine you died. Imagine what would have. You know? And then four hours later, I was using again. I didn't know how to stop. I just didn't know that there was a way. There was a couple of steps I could have taken in between me thinking about using and using. That's the difference in being sober and being an active addiction. You know, like, there's just a few things you got to do between the thought and then the use.

[Interviewer 2]

24.

[Michael Chernow]

I was 23, so I turned 24 in October, and I got sober in August. So it was, like, right before my 24th birthday. But basically, I was using again. And whether it was that next day or that night, I don't know. You know, it's a blur. But I basically said, all right, dude, you don't have the balls to kill yourself. So you might as well just, you know, you cannot get sober. You don't, you don't know how to do that. You might as well just go as hard as you can until it's over. Like you just almost ended it. You didn't really feel terrible. Like if you would have died, it wasn't, it wouldn't have been like a massively painful thing. Just, just go hard and it'll end soon.

[Interviewer 1]

Go harder on the drugs.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, just whatever you can do, whatever happens, happens.

[Interviewer 2]

So then what happened that got you sober? If it was so difficult in that moment to realize, fuck, I don't even know how to get sober. I'm just going to keep on going.

[Michael Chernow]

So I, about two weeks after that it was, I really don't remember what happened in those two weeks, but I know it was bad and dark and ugly and violent. And at the end of my using days I was, I was violent. I was getting into fights everywhere I went. I was a small guy that would be the first one to tee off always. And I got 86 from every bar in the Lower east side. If I was show up they would just be like fuck.

[Interviewer 2]

And

[Michael Chernow]

it was bad and, But I wasn't alone. I had, I had a right hand man. Always, you know, and we were always partying the same way and getting into the same fights and creating the same trouble and I got away with murder. You know those, you know those last few years, just the things that I did. The fact that I'm not doing a bid is insane. But thank God for that. I was with two guys, one of them who is now sober, one of them somehow some way is not sober. He's not dead and he's not in jail, but he's not sober. So he, he, this dude somehow figured out a way to like moderate it I guess, keep it going. I don't know how. He's one of the, one of the few, you know because most of the guys, cuz he did not go light. He and I, anyway, we were up for a few days. We were on the roof of my apartment building. Those two guys are like, okay, I'm calling it a night. It's done. I'm, I'm going home. And I was not ready to go home. And I got. So they went home. I walked downstairs into my apartment and again I caught a glimpse of myself in the wall mirror right behind my bedroom door. And I had drugs on me, I had beer and I was like, I'm just going to keep going. You Know, I'm going to keep going because that was, like, what I had basically committed to, you know, like, I'm going to just try to figure this. Figure out how to end it this way without having to, like, jump out the window. But then I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror, and I looked at myself, probably at a hard time looking at myself in the eyes, but I was disgusted with the guy I saw. I was disgusted. I was like, dude, you are. You are the biggest piece of on the planet. Like, you should just open the window and jump. Just do it. Just do it. Get it over with, man. Just do it. And I proceeded to, like, put back a lot of alcohol, thinking I get drunk enough to just have the courage to do it. And I ended up blacking out. And I woke up 16 hours later. I had slept through work because I always had a legit job. Even though I was selling lots of drugs, I always kept a legit job in a restaurant, and I had slept through work. And, you know, I also want to, like, paint this picture that, like, internally I hated myself, but I always also managed to, like, preserve this Persona of someone that kind of, like, was this downtown, you were functioning. I was functioning. I was functioning, but in the.

[Interviewer 1]

To the.

[Michael Chernow]

To the people that were associated with me, I was functioning in the restaurant industry, you know, top functioning.

[Interviewer 2]

It's quick, it's fast, It's. Let me take a shot and get right back to it. I mean, I worked in restaurants six years.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah. So, you know, that's kind of like the way it was. And so people really did love me, too. It wasn't like I was just as, like. Like, you know, criminal mania junkie.

[Interviewer 2]

You weren't a degenerate. You were functioning. You had a job.

[Michael Chernow]

I was a degenerate. And people used to call me. They love you, like, a lot. I had a lot. I, you know, I had a lot of friends.

[Interviewer 1]

They knew you meant well, though.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm saying the same guy.

[Interviewer 2]

That's what I'm saying.

[Michael Chernow]

My heart is. I got a heart of gold.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And everybody saw that. They just. They just wished I would have gotten sober, you know? They wished I would have gotten sober. So, anyway, so I slept to work, and Frank, the owner of that restaurant, was like a surrogate dad for me. Like, I looked up to him so much because he had built such a great place, and the restaurant was so dope, and I loved my job. I loved my job. And I call. I called him up and I was like, oh, man, I'm sorry, dude. He's like, mikey, I love you, but it's happened too many times, man. You're dying, bro. Like, you are. You know it. Everybody knows it. Like, I can't. I can't let you continue working here. You gotta get sober, dude. You gotta get your life together. You're. You're too young for this to, like, be such an issue. And for whatever reason I'd like to call it, the grace of God showed up in my life. I heard him. So many people have tapped me on the shoulder over the years and been like, mikey, not looking good, dude. You should consider getting sober. And I would always hear them, but not take the bait. Frank said it and I heard it, and I begged him for my job. I said, dude, I'll get sober. Please don't fire me. This is the only thing I have in my life. I love my job. And he was like, look, man, if you come to the restaurant at 8 o' clock in the morning and clean it with the porters, you can have your job, but you got to get sober. Like, I begged him for my job, and I think he just felt like, all right, I'm gonna give this kid one more chance. And so I made a phone call to my friend Karen, who was, like, kind of like an older sister figure to me. She used to take me in when I was down and out. She was also mega hot, and I had a massive crush on her. And I knew that she was sober. She had gotten sober eventually. And I called her and I was like, hey, Karen, I'm, like, ready to throw in the bat, you know, throwing the towel here. Like, I'm dying. I'm gonna die. Please. Like, I don't know what to do. You're the only person I know that I trust that is sober. And she's like, don't move. Where are you? And I was like, I'm at home. She was like, don't move. And so she called her. Her boyfriend Marcus, who just showed up and saved my life.

[Interviewer 1]

Dude.

[Michael Chernow]

This guy swooped in. Tough dude. Like, I. I felt immediately like I wanted to make him my older brother. He listened to me for hours, tell my story. He told me he can help me. And I haven't had a drink or a drug from that day.

[Interviewer 2]

Wow.

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

It's amazing.

[Interviewer 1]

It's awesome.

[Michael Chernow]

It's crazy.

[Interviewer 2]

It's.

[Interviewer 1]

Wow.

[Michael Chernow]

It's a long time, you know, but that dude taught me about. He really gave me a master class in the. In the. The first few weeks of. Of being sober. He wrote a plan hour by hour, Structured. And I was so desperate. I didn't. You know, it's so crazy that you asked that question like.

[Interviewer 1]

Like.

[Michael Chernow]

So, like, how did. How did you just figure, you know, like, what was different that day? And I. I could honestly say, like, I don't know, outside of this, I really believe that God was there for me. I do. I believe God, like, was like, okay, this kid is actually ready. I'm gonna send in Frank. I'm gonna send in Marcus. I'm gonna set him up, and I'm gonna give him a field to play on, you know?

[Interviewer 2]

Well, it just sounds like Frank was the dad that you never had. So you finally had an Alpha role model tell you. Yo. And you were like, oh, you can tell he cares. Somebody that cared.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

You know. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And he cared. And Marcus really cared. They both cared. And by the. You know, they're both. Frank is still partying his ass off, but he's still a figure in my life that I'll never, ever be able to repay, that I love more than anything. And Marcus is like, I speak to Frank probably once every six to eight months. I speak to Marcus, like, once a week, you know, once every couple weeks. Marcus is still my brother.

[Interviewer 2]

And so you didn't go to rehab, you did it?

[Michael Chernow]

No.

[Interviewer 2]

Let's talk about that, because I feel like that's not a normal way to get sober. For the most part. You hear people, they go to rehab or they go to aa. What was that like?

[Michael Chernow]

Yeah, so. So Marcus came, came in, listened to me for a few hours, and he said, dude, I'm going to be able to help you. Like, you're young enough. Like, I got you. And he was like, you know, I'm gonna write a plan. And if you follow the plan, the chances of success and, like, unstoppable potential are great. You don't follow the plan, I'm not gonna chase you. You'll be dead soon. You know, like, it's up to you. It's kind of like the way I see it. And so he wrote this plan, and it was basically like, here's what I want you to do. I want you to wake up as early as you can in the morning, and as soon as you get up, you open your eyes. You don't roll around, you don't fuck around. You don't hit snooze. You jump out of bed. You turn around and you make the bed. Done making the bed. Go to the bathroom, take a piss, wash your face, brush your teeth, put on your contact lenses, and then get on your hands and knees and ask God for help. It's like, I don't care if you believe, if you don't believe, if it's the first time you've ever prayed, doesn't matter to me. You need help. This is the best way to start getting comfortable asking for help. Starting your day with that, that's what I want you to do. And as soon as you've done prayers, I want you to do as many push ups as you can. And then when you're done with that, I want you to put on a pair of sneakers, have a glass of water and then go outside and take a walk. It could be a block, it could be a mile. Just get outside, get some fresh air in the morning, move your body, get the blood flowing. And then when you get back, I want you to start eating oatmeal every morning. And so he was giving me this nutritional plan too. He's like, I want you to eat oatmeal. It's easy, it's inexpensive, it's satiating, it's healthy. And you can add whatever you want to it, make it taste any way you want. You put maple syrup on it, nuts, berry seeds, whatever you want to put in it. Just get yourself a big bowl of oatmeal. First thing in the morning, when you're done with the oatmeal, head out to 12th street and I want you to go to that sober community meeting and Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. And I want you to tell them who you are and why you're there. And you'll, you'll say, my name is Michael and I'm an alcoholic. And I was cool with that because I knew I was, you know, I, like, I wasn't one of these people that was like in denial of it. I knew since I was a kid. And then he said, once you're done with that meeting, you're going to meet me at this gym, this Muay Thai kickboxing academy, and I'm going to teach you how to be a man. I'm going to teach you what it means to, to get back up. And I'm going to teach you about commitment, consistency, and I'm going to teach you about mental toughness through physical toughness. And he says, we're going to train for an hour and a half to two hours from, you know, 11:30 until 1:00 o' clock in the afternoon. And then you're going to have, you're going to leave, you're going to have chicken and broccoli for lunch. You're going to go to work, you're going to have chicken and broccoli for dinner, ideally before 9pm and then you're going to try to get home and get to bed as early as you can. For me, at that time was like one o' clock in the morning. And then he said, right before you go to bed, you're going to drop back down on your knees next to your bed, you're going to thank God for keeping you sober, you're going to undress, you're going to get into your bed, you're going to put your head on the pillow, doesn't matter if you're tired or not. And you're going to close your eyes until you fall asleep. And if you can do that, you'll build a life way beyond anything you think is possible. And he was right. I still do that. That's my, that's my plan. That's what I do.

[Interviewer 2]

And was it difficult to still work in the restaurant during this time?

[Michael Chernow]

You know, the interesting thing is, I think because of how dark my life was and just how the stars align for me with Marcus coming in, I mean, I wanted to impress him. He. A guy showed up in my life that I wanted to impress. I wanted a pat on the back from him. I needed his validation. And I wouldn't say that that's the healthiest way to live life on a regular basis, but I do believe that there are phases and times in life as we're coming up and developing that having somebody that you're chasing, having somebody that you want to impress, having someone that you really want to mentor, you fucking very important. Yeah, he may. Because of that desire. No, I didn't care about alcohol. It was crazy. But again, right, like I, you know, faith is something that is very important to me and it wasn't before I got sober I had none. But I do believe in God and I do believe that God showed up. I don't know how else to say it. I had no interest in drinking alcohol or using drugs. And I remember in September of that, that year, you know, I got sober August 2nd. And I remember like 30 days in, I was in my apartment, same apartment that I used to smoke crack in, same apartment that I used to do drugs in. All day, all night. Dark memories in there. It was a hot September, I remember, and it was like, it was like early September and I had the AC cranking in my apartment and I was lying on my back in the, in the middle of the living room on the floor, like spread out, lying on my back sober 30 days, give or take. And for the first time, I felt freedom. First time in my life, legit. And I felt free. And I remember feeling that, like, wow, I am not locked up behind these bars anymore. Like, what was I doing? You know?

[Interviewer 2]

You never look back. Amazing. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

That's awesome.

[Interviewer 2]

It's a movie. Nobody's come to you yet. Try to write a movie. What's up?

[Interviewer 1]

What. What do you think the biggest misconception is about addiction to people that don't struggle with it?

[Michael Chernow]

That all you. That all you gotta do is stop. Oh, it's all. Just. Just stop. Just stop. What are you doing? Every single drug addict that I know, that's. That's beyond. That one would say is beyond repair, has no interest in doing what they're doing. They hate it. They. And I've worked with a lot of addicts over the years. You ask them, are you happy with your life? I hate my life. I hate myself. I hate my life. I want to die. So the thought process of, oh, yeah, just stop is really difficult. Now. The part of that that I know to be true is that it is just stop. You know, I mean, that is the truth. Like, but it's just so e. It's much easier said than done, because as simple as just. Yeah, you just, you know, like, you live your life with.

[Interviewer 2]

With a,

[Michael Chernow]

you know, a safety net for everything. It's just, oh, you feel bad? Boom, I feel better. Oh, you feel good? Boom, I feel great. Oh, you don't feel anything? Boom, I feel better. You know, complete control over how you feel for a short period of time. Quick, quick short period of time. 20 minutes, 30 minutes. And then you got, boom, you got to do it again. And when you have control over that, it's very, very difficult to just, like, let go. But that's where the nutrition and the fitness have come into my life and saved me, is that now I know I've got control over wins that I want every day. If I want to win, I know what I got to do. I got to eat healthy. I got to train hard. I got to tell people I love them. Yeah, I win that way.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember. I remember hearing Theo Vaughn talk about that because I think he struggled with cocaine addiction for a while, and he said, someone that uses like that and can't stop, they probably lack a lot of control in other aspects of their life. But he goes, that is the one thing that I can control. And it is crazy that even though it's not good for you, that that sense of not feeling like you have control of your life and all the other aspects for, for that short amount of time, it's like, all right, well, at least like I know how I'm going to feel. I'm in control of this. I'm choosing to do it.

[Michael Chernow]

And, and nothing else matters. Nothing else matters for that period, like the pursuit of getting it and the act of doing it and the 15, 20 minute outcome of doing it. That period of time. Nothing else matters in life. It's just everything is out the window

[Interviewer 1]

and you'll do whatever it takes to get it.

[Michael Chernow]

Whatever it takes. I've done some crazy, you know, whatever it takes. And the. So the perception from the person that's never dealt with it or had somebody close to them that unders, you know, that have had the experience is waste of flesh. You know, look at that bum. I walk around with those protein bars and I give them out to homeless people. I have conversations with these guys. I had a conversation with a guy this morning waiting for the F train. This guy was. Nobody's ever walked up to this guy to talk to him. He stunk like a sewer. I walk up to him, I say, hey man, give you a couple of protein bars. These things are awesome. He looks and he reads the, the branding and he goes. And I was like, when was the last time you had a protein bar? I don't know, man. You know, these guys are, they're humans, they're people. That guy would, would be it. That guy could be you or me.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Took made a couple of bad decisions, you know, couldn't get out of his own way. So it's. That is the, the misconception that kid, that guy, that whatever he was 60 year old dude, was a kid, had parents. Maybe he didn't, maybe he grew up in the system, like, who knows? But you know, it's not like, it's not like people have people that are relying on substances. They didn't plan it to be that way. And there is a solution. It's just a hard one for people to believe is possible. But I, this is why I'm so grateful that you guys have me on the podcast. But this is my mission in life. I've had a crazy story and I tell it as much as possible. I launched my business because I wanted to be able to use my business as a platform to tell this story that yes, it is painful to get sober, but yes, on the other side of that coin is freedom and like unstoppable potential. Truly, the you you took, I forgot that guy's name is that. That. That gambler with the tattoos all over?

[Interviewer 1]

Mickey Maze.

[Michael Chernow]

Mickey Maze. Like, if you took that guy, one of the biggest gambling men. Men in the world, and you put a picture of me at 23 years old prior to getting sober, and took a picture of me now with, like, my family, be like, what are the chances of that happening? He'd be like, none. Like, would you bet money on that? No. You know, yeah. And so the possibilities are. I've seen miracles happen, you know, like crazy miracles.

[Interviewer 2]

Because you are one in a way, right?

[Michael Chernow]

I believe that I am. You know, let's lean into the.

[Interviewer 2]

The relationships real quick. I know we kind of spoke about it off camera. When did you meet your wife and how did that happen?

[Michael Chernow]

So I met my wife nine months after I got sober. So when I say, like. Like, God was, like, throwing things at me, I mean, my wife is so out of my league. Like, so out of my league. And I'm not just saying that because the chances of her listening to this podcast, first of all, are very slim. If you don't listen to podcasts, I. I'm not saying that because. I'm saying that because it's a fact. Dude, my wife is a fucking supermodel. When I met her, you know, I mean, she's not a supermodel anymore, but, like, she was 22. I was 25. Yeah. Nine months after I got sober, she came into the. She. I was bartending. She walked into the restaurant. And now, mind you, at this point, nine months in, I was a totally different person. I mean, night and day, different from when I got sober. I was in. I was in insane shape. I was, like, high on life. Things were just working. I was a totally different person. And so I think that obviously has something to do with how I was perceived. But anyway, Donna and Linda, her best friend, and these two guys walked into the bar. Half of the restaurant is a bar. The other half is the restaurant. They walked in, and I saw them, and I was like, wow. Okay. I mean, there were really hot girls that walked into this place, but I was like, wow, they're fucking hot. And I. If, you know, your model walks in the room, you know, immediately, oh, yeah, that's like some hot model. Anyway, they come in, they walk in. There were two dudes. So I'm like, all right, dude, don't. Don't put out that energy.

[Interviewer 2]

They're.

[Michael Chernow]

God, they're. They're. They're. They're off the market. They sit down at the bar, they order a Couple of beers. The guys then they end up going and sitting down in the restaurant. They have dinner in the restaurant. And then like an hour later, I see the dudes walk out. And I was like, all right. And then 10 minutes behind them, Donna and Linda come sit down at the bar. And they're giddy, they're like, really interested in talking and, like, you know, chewing it up. And I was like, all right, I mean, maybe those weren't the boyfriends, you know? And so they end up hanging out at the bar from 10 o' clock to like, closing time to like 1am and it was Donna's birthday. Her birthday's on 20 on April 25th. And it was two days before her birthday. And so as we were just like, the conversation, you know, the restaurant was slowing down. They hung out. I was giving them espresso martinis. They were getting toasty. And, you know, like, I was like, if I don't take the opportunity to ask this girl out, I will. I will kick myself in the ass. Because I felt like that was like a once in a lifetime chance with this beautiful girl who was so cool. And so she was like, yeah, it's my birthday on Friday. Which was. It was a Wednesday night. I was like, donna, you just gotta let me just take you out. Like, I'm, I'm. I'm like the New York City restaurant king. Let me take you to the best restaurants and then, and then we'll have the best molten chocolate cake in the city to celebrate your birthday. And she looked at me and she goes, do you think that I don't have plans on my birthday? My birthday's in two days. You think that I just don't have anything planned? And I was like, good point. I was like, I'm off tomorrow. Let me take you out on a late night date and at midnight we'll celebrate your birthday. She was like, okay, I like that. I was like, great. Now, mind you, they were sitting down at the bar. I'm standing behind the bar, I'm a whopping five foot eight. Donna's like, like five, eleven and a half. My wife, she's tall. So I go to pick her up the next night and she's like, in heels. She comes walking up and I'm like, oh, man, this shit ain't gonna work. No chance. Like, she could, like, put her arm around me, you know? But we had the best night. We had the best date. I took her to Blue Ribbon Brasserie Oysters for the first time. We had the molten chocolate cake at midnight. I knew everybody over there, so they took really good care of me. And then we went to Cafe Regio in the West Village, and we, like, made out for, like, two hours, and. And I dropped her off, and I was like, this is it. I met the woman of my dreams. Like, we just had the best night out. And then she just ghosted my ass. Just ghosted me. No response to text. No text. And I was like, of course this happens this way. You know, of course this would be the way it happens. And so I kind of just like, after a week and a half, I texted her a few times. I gave up. And then, like, a few days later, I got a text from her, and she was like, hey, I'm at little Frankie's. Come meet me. And I, like, stopped everything I was doing. I called out of my shift at work, and I met her there, and that was it. Tied at the hip ever since.

[Interviewer 2]

Wow.

[Michael Chernow]

And I. Three months in, I was like, I'm going to marry this girl. Like, I knew it. No one would have ever thought that Mikey C. Would be locked up by at 25, but I just knew it. And so I called my grandfather, and I was like, hey, I'm gonna marry this girl. And he's like, what girl? And I was like, my girlfriend Donna. He's like, oh, your girlfriend Donna? He's like, how long have you been with Donna? I was like, three months. He was like, mike, don't ask her to marry you right now. Live with her for a year. If you feel the same way in a year, you got my blessing. And, you know, my grandfather, who's my father's father, was actually another figure in my life that I really looked up to. I really wanted to impress. Even though he was tough, like, he. He did love me, and he was a good grandfather. So I took his advice, lived with. I said to. That night, I was like, hey, babe, let's get. Let's get an apartment. We got an apartment a couple of months later, and we lived together for 11 months, and I asked her to marry me. That was it, you know? So, yeah, his advice was good. His advice is good.

[Interviewer 1]

Why in. Why in sobriety do they tell you not to date in the first year?

[Michael Chernow]

Because if someone breaks your heart, it's a very easy excuse to go out?

[Interviewer 2]

That was going to be my question. When she ghosted you, did you. Did you almost fall off the wagon?

[Michael Chernow]

It was only one date. Had it been. You know, had it been month? You know, three months? It's very, very slippery slope.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, like, you're walking on a mudslide. I. I do understand that philosophy, but I will say that my first sponsor or not my first sponsor, my second sponsor knew that I was, like, dating this girl, and he was cool with it. But when I told him that I love her and I wanted to tell her that I loved her, he's like, you don't love her. He's like, you just.

[Interviewer 1]

You're.

[Michael Chernow]

You're newly sober, dude. You don't love her. And I'm like, dude, I love her. Actually, I'm telling you that I've dated a lot of girls in my life. You know, at that point, I was a total slut. You know, I was like, this is different, man. I'm telling you. And he was like, well, I can't. Look, you do what you got. Do what you want to do. I can't sponsor you because I don't. I'm telling you what I think is. I'm telling. I'm telling you to make a decision based on my experience of sponsoring other guys and seeing guys fall off and die. I can't sponsor you. And I was like, okay, I understand that. Thank God I, like, didn't take his advice.

[Interviewer 1]

Right?

[Michael Chernow]

I met, though. I literally met my soulmate. Like, Donna is my wife. She's my partner. She's my soul mate. 21 years in a relationship, still madly in love with her, still madly attracted to her, still having sex. Like, we have two kids. She's the best mother I've ever experienced in my life. So, yeah, she was my rock.

[Interviewer 2]

I think it's a testament that once you get on the right road, God is gonna give you the right stops on that road. Right.

[Interviewer 1]

You know, and how. How quickly were you open with her about your past, like, being vulnerable and letting those walls down with her? Because I'm sure that was one day. 1. And how did she receive that?

[Michael Chernow]

Like a champ. I told her, look, I said, I'm sober. And at that point, I had become obsessed with Muay Thai kickboxing. So I said, I'm. I'm sober, and I'm like, a raw nerve. I'm afraid to have sex. I don't. I mean, I was, like, straight up with her, you know, I was like, I'm afraid to have sex, learning about God. I train three hours a day to keep me from feeling like I need to use, and I'm structured as hell. My life is very structured right now. And she was like, great. She didn't have sex with me for a month, and she was so kind about it. She was like, I mean, you know, you could say what you want, right? But like, that doesn't happen on a regular basis. You know, you meet someone who's just like an angel. So cool. So cool. Strong. She's like a strong woman. And also was just like, so willing to just like, totally move at my speed, my pace, you know, it's amazing.

[Interviewer 1]

Does she, does she drink?

[Michael Chernow]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

How is that for you?

[Michael Chernow]

I could care less.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

You going back to work as a bartender after being solo for however long,

[Michael Chernow]

I could care less. And she, you know, my wife, you know, she has a glass of wine every night sometimes too, when we go on vacation. She'll have a. You know, she'll get a little tipsy, which I love. You know, my wife, I'm sure wishes that I. And you know, full transparency. Sometimes I play a little game where I'm like, babe, you know, when the kids are out, kids are in college and we're empty nesters and we're in our 60s, like, we'll go have a. We'll have a bottle of wine in Capri. She's like, okay, yeah. You know, and so she's, she's. She supports the. Out of me, you know, of course. I'm sure she. She's not an addict or an alcoholic. Never had real experience with anyone that has been. My wife has never seen me have a drink or a drug, so. And I honestly think that that is one of the most. Probably that is a pillar as to how. Why we've stayed together for so long. Because even if you're not an alcoholic or a heavy drinker, couples drink and get drunk together. They fight. You know, we don't have any of those irrational fights. Yeah. Ever. Like, we have, we argue. We'll. We'll have a fight, but not because we're both drunk and saying to each other that we don't want to say. And that's a lot of relationships. You know, you get drunk, you say some shit you don't want to say. The other person's drunk, they fight back. You guys are not. Now you're fighting over nothing because you just had too much. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

As someone that grew up kind of like yearning for love and like seeking it, obviously from a parent, it's different than a partner, but at the end of the day, it's still love. How has she, like, changed your perspective on love and what love is?

[Michael Chernow]

She taught me how to love.

[Interviewer 1]

She taught you how to love?

[Michael Chernow]

100%. She taught me how to love. She Taught me what love is. My wife taught me that. And she did a really good job, like, a super good job, because prior to her, I began to start learning to love myself. But because she showed up in my life, it was a great example of. Of why I should love myself. That this person sees something in me. It just. It just totally expedited my. Now, I could say, I could tell you without any shame, I fucking love the guy who's sitting in this chair right now. I do. And there's obviously days where I'm like, life sucks, of course, you know, but. But I love this guy. And she taught me that I could. That she gave me the permission to love this guy. And then I understood how to truly love someone back, you know?

[Interviewer 1]

So do you think you have to love yourself to be able to properly love someone else?

[Michael Chernow]

I think you have to love yourself in order to receive love from someone else. Because if you don't love yourself, you won't believe that anybody else loves you.

[Interviewer 1]

Right? You don't think you're lovable.

[Michael Chernow]

You don't think you're lovable. So if you can learn to love yourself, then you can ultimately receive. And once you receive, there's only one thing that is reciprocated, right? Because receiving love feels so good, it makes you. You start to speak the love language. Yeah. So my wife gave me the confidence. I was already on the path of doing things like stacking my habits and giving me the confidence to love myself. And then my wife was the cherry on top where she said, no, no, no, you are special person. And, you know, yeah, it's awesome.

[Interviewer 2]

It's amazing.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, it's. It's crazy. Just for someone that, say, looks on your Instagram, right? And stuff like that. Like you said, like, Mickey May. Like, like, if you brought Mickey Maze, would you bet on that? Like, everything, like, your life right now, if someone were to just look at it from a bird's eye view, like, it seems like, bro, it's perfect. Like, you got businesses, you're yoked, you're an athlete, you have a beautiful model wife, you have children, you have family, you're doing well. You know, it's. If someone looked at it, that's why it's so hard to judge. Because, like, someone could look at you and say all these things like, oh, he has a perfect life. He. Look, look at him. Look at him. Look at his Instagram. Look at the way he carries himself. Look at all. And it's like, you don't even know how do you? What. What does that do to you for, like, empathy with just other people in general. Like you were saying with the guy on the street. Right. Like the homeless guy. And I know you're in this space of trying to help people. Like, were you a Marcus for someone else?

[Michael Chernow]

I've been a Marcus for so many because I know the power of that. I'm sitting here with you guys right now with the hopes that I can Marcus a couple of guys from this. My story has kept me 100 humble. I've never let the successes that I've had over the years blow my head up to the point where I'm not ready to drop down and do 50 with someone, you know? And I know. And there's. There's a lot of guys like that, you know, like, you know, some of these guys that have been super duper successful in sobriety, you would never know their story unless they told it to you, you know, but the. The humility is so real. I mean, you know, when I opened up my first business, the meatball shop, I. I was young, man. I was 20, just turned 29. And if you didn't know that I was the owner of that restaurant, you would have thought I was a busboy, because that's what I did there. I ran around, grab tables, sat people, took orders, cooked meatballs. You know, I was, like, doing everything. And sometimes people would say, hey, man, you kind of look like a busboy, you know, like a waiter. And I'd be like, yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

Yes.

[Michael Chernow]

So that's what I'm. That's what I. That's who I am.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

I spent my life in this world. Like, what do you think? I'm. I'm also gonna come to work in a suit and a gold Rolex.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

But I think people also get misconceptions that aren't business owners. They think once you open a business that you don't have to work anymore

[Michael Chernow]

or that you're, like, all of a sudden rich.

[Interviewer 2]

Well, that's it. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, that guy owns a restaurant. He must be rich.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Be like, no, all my money actually

[Interviewer 2]

goes back into the restaurant.

[Interviewer 1]

If there's someone listening right now. Late teens, early 20s, trying to get sober. They're really struggling with addiction. What's a piece of advice you would have for them right now?

[Michael Chernow]

The one thing. So I'll say two things. First and foremost, the only piece of the puzzle that you may be missing, if you're listening to me now, is the courage to actually ask for help. Asking for help saved my life 21 years and change ago and now saves my life on a daily basis. Asking for help is the one thing that a lot of humans struggle with, but specifically people that struggle with substance abuse struggle with genuinely asking for help. You think you can do it alone. And I'm not here to tell. I'm here to tell you that asking for help is not a sign of weakness. Asking for help is a sign of strength. You're not going to do it alone. Hear me again, like, you are not going to do it alone. I don't know anybody who's done it alone and been successful. And then the second piece is, there's only one thing that we have to do perfectly in life, just one, and that's get back up. That's it. You're gonna fail. You get back up. You're gonna fail. You get back up. It's okay. Where you're at is okay. You're not dead. Which means you have an opportunity to change. I have seen. I am a changed human. A living, breathing, thriving example of someone who wanted to die desperately, who overdosed on drugs, who lived a lifestyle that I couldn't even fathom myself living today. Then I can't even believe some of the things that I did those days. And I have changed a day at a time. And all it took was for me to pick up the phone and call the right person. And then the stars aligned. You know, it's that first step of asking for help. And then when I. When I would fail, you know, I surrounded myself with people. And you can find that in the. In the community of the 12 steps. They'll reach out your hand. You know, it's like so hard to

[Interviewer 1]

really.

[Michael Chernow]

I think what it all boils down to is this life we live is about loving and being loved. It's a love game. The decisions that we make are all in a effort, the good ones and the bad ones, to love and be loved more. I drank because I didn't love myself. And when I drank, it made me feel a little bit more comfortable in my own skin. I cheated on my girlfriends because I was in fear of losing them, because I didn't think that they actually loved me. And so I did it in the name of love. I married my wife because I now understand what love is. I had children because I now understand what love is. I make mistakes in the name of love. I make great decisions in the name of love. We all. It's a love game. We are one of the only beings on this planet that are capable of actually loving us elephants. I think Dolphins and I think maybe penguins have this thing, maybe whales. Very few animals in the animal kingdom are capable of loving. It is what we're here to do, to love and multiply.

[Interviewer 2]

So

[Michael Chernow]

it's cape. It's possible. It is 100% possible for everyone. I'm not a unique dude. I'm just not. I just had the courage to ask for help and continue to ask for help. So anybody who's out there thinking, oh, there's no possible way, you know, fentanyl has really things up. But I've seen people come off of it and stay off of it. Yeah. So no matter how far down the road you think you are, no matter how far down that dry well, that barrel, you rob and steal and cheat all the time, you hate your life, all those things that you hate about yourself, I just, I will put every dollar I've ever made on it. That you can get sober and live a better life. Because I know it's true. I know it's possible for everyone, you know?

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. Well, you're a living testimony.

[Interviewer 2]

Yep. So it's amazing. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

You have an inspiring story, brother. And keep inspiring because, please, you're helping people.

[Michael Chernow]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Let's do it. I'm doing a live.

[Interviewer 2]

Was just about to say that.

[Interviewer 1]

The daily bar. Creatures of habit. 20 grams of protein, 3 grams of creatine.

[Interviewer 2]

Non GMO.

[Interviewer 1]

Non GMO.

[Interviewer 2]

Branding's really cool.

[Interviewer 1]

Better habits, better life. Can people buy these in stores or. It's strictly online.

[Michael Chernow]

So right now it's just on our website and Amazon.

[Interviewer 1]

Website and Amazon. Oh, my God.

[Michael Chernow]

And you guys are having the chocolate peanut butter banger. This is a cookie dough.

[Interviewer 1]

Good texture.

[Interviewer 2]

Very good.

[Interviewer 1]

Get the other half of this. Either half of that.

[Michael Chernow]

These things are seed oil free sugar, alcohol free. So these are not going to make you run to the bathroom. You can eat them every day. It's a treat, you know, it tastes amazing.

[Interviewer 1]

I do protein bars every day.

[Interviewer 2]

Every day.

[Interviewer 1]

Every day. That's my pre workout. So I've been vitamin shop. Buy one on the way to the gym and you get a case of these.

[Interviewer 2]

And I love the branding.

[Interviewer 1]

Did you know the branding?

[Michael Chernow]

Thank you. I did it. I did the branding with these guys out here in Greenpoint called the Young Jerks. They're amazing.

[Interviewer 1]

I like the texture. I hate when a protein bar, like. I mean, I don't know, whatever. I'm not. This is your comment Met rx. It's so hard to bite down and chew them and I'm chewing for 30 times and like hurt my Teeth.

[Interviewer 2]

Oh, even that.

[Interviewer 1]

These are soft. You know, like that one that just went viral.

[Interviewer 2]

What is it, like, Dave's or something? I don't like it.

[Interviewer 1]

All right.

[Interviewer 2]

You know, I don't like it.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. The texture, it's, like, almost rubbery.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

These are good.

[Interviewer 2]

These are amazing.

[Michael Chernow]

The difference between these bars and pretty much everything else out there, honestly. So I spent two years working on this. On this bar. We launched the business with this high protein overnight oatmeal. And that goes back to my story with Marcus told me to eat the oats, and that's what I wanted to launch the business with, which kills it. But I was like, I want a protein bar, but I cannot commit to any protein bar because either a, I don't like the taste of them, the texture of them, or the ingredients suck so bad that, like, has me in my pants.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. All artificial nonsense.

[Interviewer 2]

Not doing what it's supposed to do.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

This bar took me two years to make because what I learned is it's very difficult to make a clean protein bar without using all those crazy ingredients that tastes good, that has good texture, and you want to eat every day. And we did it.

[Interviewer 1]

What flavor is that?

[Michael Chernow]

This is the cookie dough dazzler. Yeah.

[Interviewer 2]

That was amazing. Thank you, brother.

[Michael Chernow]

Thank you. This is my third one today.

[Interviewer 1]

You're at 60. 60 grams.

[Michael Chernow]

I eat a lot of protein bars.

[Interviewer 1]

60 grams of protein. Yeah. Thank you, Michael Cherno. This was awesome. I'm sure this helped a lot of people. Absolutely. And, yeah, like I said, just keep doing what you're doing because you're making an impact.

[Michael Chernow]

Thank you guys so much for having me.

[Interviewer 2]

Thank you.

[Michael Chernow]

This is awesome.