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- [00:00]
Pat Damiano
And I have a couple of clients who are like, I don't like using kettlebells. I don't want to use them. Like, all right, cool. You know, I've always said this as, like, you know, I've been a personal trainer for 12, 13 years. It's always been part of who I am. And I've always enjoyed, like, the process of it. And not just like the workout side of it, but more like the human interaction side of it is you can't force your training ideas onto your clients. You can push them in because you, at the end of the day, you do believe in them. You know, they work and you like them and, you know, you don't want to be doing a bunch of stuff with your clients that you can't stand. You want to have this stuff that you like. And. But at the end of the day, there are going to be people who are like, I'm afraid of barbells, or I don't like to use them, or these kettlebells hurt my wrists. And I don't mean like, injure you my wrist that don't feel great sitting on my wrist. Like, there are going to be people who just don't like certain things. And it's, you know, you got to work with that.
- [00:48]
Michael Chernow
I'm Michael Chernow and this is the Creatures of Habit podcast. Our habits will make us or break us. It's just that simple. I've lived on both sides of the tracks and have learned that the decisions we make on a consistent basis truly define who we are as human beings. On this show, I will be interviewing some of the most inspiring, motivating and high performing humans I've encountered to share their daily habits, routines and rituals that help them stay on top of their game and ultimately happy. So sit back, relax, and pay attention because what you hear over the next 30 to 45 minutes could potentially change your.
- [01:29]
Your life.
- [01:30]
Pat Damiano
Let's go.
- [01:31]
Michael Chernow
What up, guys? Welcome back to the Creatures of Habit podcast. I am pumped, pun intended, to introduce you to our guest today. This guy has built an incredible following on social media. He has been a personal trainer for well over a decade. He's built out an amazing online training platform and, and really what drew me to Pat Damiano's content was his passion and expertise in kettlebells. So this podcast today is going to talk a lot about kettlebells because I'm really interested in kettlebells.
- [02:10]
Pat Damiano
Why?
- [02:10]
Michael Chernow
Well, when I read Pat's bio, we had a lot in common in terms of our fitness trajectory outside of my 10 years of training, Muay Thai, before I really got into strength training, we really followed the same path, bodybuilding and strength training, CrossFit, and then ultimately now, which I'm potentially going to get into kettlebells. I did a lot of kettlebells when I was doing martial arts, when I was doing Muay Thai. In training for Muay Thai, we did a lot of calisthenics, a lot of conditioning, obviously a lot of Muay Thai. But the one thing that we lifted off the ground when we were training for Muay Thai was kettlebells. And so I really just want to dig into kettlebells and understand where kettlebells kind of fit into the mix. Pat's a local. He lives in Westchester. He's lived in Westchester his whole life. And he's married. He's building this platform, and I'm super fired up to introduce him to you. Pat, welcome to the show.
- [03:07]
Pat Damiano
Thanks for having me.
- [03:08]
Michael Chernow
Good intro, dude.
- [03:09]
Pat Damiano
Love a good intro.
- [03:10]
Michael Chernow
You know what really drew me to you, like I said, was like, seeing what you're doing with kettlebells, and it seems to me like, like I don't really see you lifting anything else off the ground outside of kettlebells. So why don't you give us a little bit of a bio and intro on you, just so everybody gets a better idea as to who you are and then we'll dive right in.
- [03:32]
Pat Damiano
Cool. So I'll try to do them kind of together as, like my training, the way I train and then like, business wise, how I've gone. So started, like you said, got into working out just to get better at baseball. 13 years old, started bodybuilding. Bodybuilding. Ish. Didn't really know what I was doing. Just went to the gym and worked hard. Did that for probably three. Got into CrossFit and drank the Kool Aid super hard. That was 2013, so that was like CrossFit's hot time. So I really drank the Kool Aid hard. Dove into that for a few years. Did some, like, local competitions, kind of like the idea of competing and having something to train for now that I was done playing baseball. Clean and jerks and snatch were always kind of my favorite part of CrossFit. I was getting slightly, like, mentally burnt out with CrossFit. So I made a transition into Olympic weightlifting. So just clean and jerk, snatch and back, squat for nothing and nothing else for basically three years. And I absolutely loved it. I fell really, really in love with that sport. Competed at a pretty high level, Got pretty good at that. I think that's Why? I kind of stuck with it for a while, ended up moving. So I was in Tampa at the time and I was doing Olympic Weightlifting and CrossFit for college. Moved back up here. Kind of fell out of it because I wasn't around my whole crew. My shoulder was being a little weird and that's when I was also, I moved back up to be full time CrossFit coach at a CrossFit gym. So then from I was, age wise, I was 23 to 26 or 7, I kind of fell into this lull of fitness of just kind of doing everything. Like a little bit of bodybuilding, kind of CrossFit, kind of Olympic weightlifting, kind of running. Like a bunch of random stuff, nothing programmed at all. I then started Jiu jitsu. So it sounds like we have a little bit of a similar background when it comes to the kettlebells, which a lot of people do now. Kettlebells are always part of the training plan. I actually weirdly discovered them when I was 15 years old. Yeah, I bought like my own set. My parents still have them. I was 15. So that was.
- [05:21]
Michael Chernow
And you were born in one.
- [05:22]
Pat Damiano
I was born 93. So I was young. That was.
- [05:24]
Michael Chernow
That's when I found kettlebells. Yeah, around that time.
- [05:28]
Pat Damiano
Yeah, that makes sense then. So I had kind of discovered them, bought a few. They gave me a pamphlet. I like to tell people that's how long ago it was. There was no Instagram, nothing like that. Kind of used them. It was like, hey, here's five exercises you can do. So fast forward to me discovering jiu jitsu. I was kind of going through a bodybuilding ish stint. Then like push, pull legs. First day Jiu jitsu was like tight, deconditioned all of that. I was like, I need to make a little bit of a switch here. So that's when I got back into the kettlebells again. Some more of the unconventional stuff like Bulgarian bags, maces, clubs. But kettlebells really became more part of it. So I did that for a couple years. It felt better. Jiu jitsu was a little bit of my priority in terms of like what I'm going to physically give more energy to. So my workouts were kind of supplemental, I'd say probably two years ago. Then at this point I was like, I want to go get strong again. Kettlebells are going to be my route of doing that. And then they just took off. And that's what turned into basically 85 to 90% of my training as kettlebells. They were always part of the mix from when I first discovered them when I was 15 years old to that time when I really decided to make them. Majority of my training, they were always part of it a little bit swings, maybe some carries, presses, but nothing like I'm doing now.
- [06:40]
Michael Chernow
So are you still doing Jiu Jitsu or no more?
- [06:42]
Pat Damiano
No, still doing it about twice a week. Okay. Prefer to train or workout over Jiu Jitsu. I've gone through stints of like Jiu Jitsu five times a week, workout two to three times a week, and dabbled back and forth with that. But yeah, I actually took a little time off Jiu Jitsu and I'm back in for the past month. It feels good.
- [07:00]
Michael Chernow
So, you know, it's interesting. Like I. So I did Muay Thai for 12 years and then after I decided I was not going to do Muay Thai anymore in that 12 years, I was also doing Jiu Jitsu for the last two, last two and a half years of the 12 year Muay Thai commitment. Got severely injured in 2013, like really, really bad. And Jiu Jitsu. In Jiu Jitsu. But it was, it was because a lot of the Jiu Jitsu guys were super strong. And I was like, all right, I gotta start lifting weights.
- [07:34]
Pat Damiano
Yeah.
- [07:34]
Michael Chernow
And so I picked like, no. I had zero guidance. And I just went to the gym and started deadlifting. And just the day, I remember it like it was yesterday. I had like £185 on the bar. I deadlifted with probably the worst form ever. I heard something pop and I was like, oh, that didn't feel good. I rolled that night. A dude stacked me, heavy guy stacked me. My foot got caught in his gi. So my. So I was like legit stacked. Like my legs came down on my head and everybody heard the pop in the gym. It was like a loud one and I ruptured my L4 L5 disc out. Like, couldn't move. And for eight weeks. It was probably the worst eight weeks of my life. I couldn't stand up past 45 degree angle. I had to sleep with three or four pillows under my hips because I just couldn't flatten out. Finally I was able to get a cortisone shot that worked and took care of the problem, at least I thought. But anyway, like, in those years, I. I also started long distance running. I just started doing a bunch of shit very similar to you. Right. Like I couldn't figure out exactly what I wanted to do. And then in 2018, someone had suggested, after I ran the New York City Marathon for the last time. Someone that I knew was like, hey, you should try bodybuilding. And I was like, bodybuilding? I'm like, I'm 155 pounds. Like, what are you talking about? And she was like, well, you kind of have the frame. Like, if you spent a year building muscle, there's a chance that. Know, you probably haven't spent a lot of time building muscle because of your conditioning training. So I started doing that, and then I fell in love with bodybuilding and I started competing in bodybuilding. And then I got my pro card in bodybuilding. And then after I competed as a pro, I was. My wife hated my life. Like, she hated everything about it. I was. I was like the Tupperware king.
- [09:28]
Pat Damiano
Grilled chicken and broccoli.
- [09:29]
Michael Chernow
Yeah. It was just, you know, I mean, I made it taste good, but at the end of the day, like, everything was accounted for. And that lifestyle is just. It's just not sustainable.
- [09:38]
Pat Damiano
No.
- [09:38]
Michael Chernow
Right. So then I got into CrossFit and I blew up probably very similar to you. I dove in heavy. Yeah, I got. I like, drank the Kool Aid. Before I knew it, I was like, crossfitted out. And then I just. One injury after the next, after the next, you know? Yeah, it was bad. It was bad. And so now I'm kind of back to. I'm doing high rocks. So I'm, like, doing a little running, doing more push, pull, leg stuff. I'm contemplating this cross, this kettlebell thing. And that's what I wanted to talk to you about. I feel like kettlebells are. It's not that it's like injury, like bullet. Bulletproof for injury, but I would imagine that there's far less. You're far less injury prone with kettlebells than you are with even. Even strength training.
- [10:27]
Pat Damiano
I'm obviously biased, but that's part of the reason I really do enjoy kettlebells so much. And what really kind of helped them take off is I like to work out hard. I love the idea of CrossFit, but my body doesn't want to do CrossFit five times a week. Or at least I don't want to do what I'm supposed to do outside of CrossFit five times a week. I don't want to stretch and foam roll and all of that stuff. The recovery for it is difficult. It just is what it is. I've done CrossFit. I love what it's done for my career. I love the concept of it. But really hard strength training. When I was Olympic weightlifting or doing CrossFit. It's just a lot on the body and I know what it takes to get there and I just don't want to do that. But I still like to lift heavy and work hard. And that's what kettlebells have allowed me to do. You know, If I snatch 106 pound kettlebell for a few reps, that's really difficult for me. But it's not nearly as taxing as doing a really heavy barbell snatch because it's just not as much weight. So that's kind of the way that I look at it. And what has helped me dive into the kettlebells hard is that it still gives me the ability to train hard, lift heavy, but I'm not doing as much. At least I don't feel like I'm doing as much damage on my body as back squatting heavy and deadlifting heavy and doing a super hard, hard crosshair workout where you're absolutely dying on the ground.
- [11:41]
Michael Chernow
Why do you think you like to work out hard?
- [11:44]
Pat Damiano
That's. I think it's because my life is just intensity. We were briefly talking about. I think I'm from New York. I think it's just kind of in us a little bit. I think I tend to thrive on intensity and it's just fun for me. I. I don't never really like taking a deep dive into it. As to why I like it, it just, it feels good. I like the pursuit of something. For me, I've always just enjoyed strength training. I've always kind of been a numbers chaser. I've never been overly like bodybuilding as a sport never really appealed to me. I get into bodybuilding when I buy. And I put bodybuilding in air quotes because I did. I was 13 years old and there was nothing else that existed, really. It's like I want a six pack, right? So I did curls and bench press and stuff because I didn't know any better. But once I got into CrossFit, I kind of learned the like strength training side of things. And I like the pursuit of chasing a number. So I think that's why I like to work out hard. It's a little bit more measurable for me.
- [12:32]
Michael Chernow
What do you. So with kettlebells, it's. It's a lot easier to chase a number in bodybuilding because you can always add weight to the bar. It's a lot easier to chase in Olympic lifting because you can always add weight to the bar. And you can very clearly see Olympic lifting is arguably the most challenging, most Technical style of strength training. I think I'd agree in ever, right? Like, it's the hard. I picked up on most things in CrossFit relatively quickly. Olympic lifting was the one thing that I think kept me super pumped on CrossFit because I felt like I was learning something every day. And it's kind of like skipping. I remember in Muay Thai years ago, like, jumping rope with style is hard as hell, especially when you're jumping with a garden hose, right? Because in Muay Thai, it's like the ropes are super thick. And so you really had to get this style down. And then. And I remember being so frustrated. Cause I just could not get the rhythm down or the style down for that kind of jumping roping. And then one day, all of a sudden, it was just like, boop. Like something happened and boom, I was skipping. Similarly in Olympic lifting, right? Like there could. You could be months at trying to figure out your. Your barbell snatch. And all of a sudden one day, someone says something to you and the bar just floats up.
- [13:54]
Pat Damiano
Yep. Right. My coach always said the same thing. He said it was like a staircase. It's like you feel like nothing's happening. And all of a sudden, in a month, numbers shoot up, everything clicks, and then it plateaus again and then it shoots up. It had happened every time with me.
- [14:07]
Michael Chernow
So what are you chasing in kettlebells right now?
- [14:09]
Pat Damiano
I'm addicted to buying kettlebells. Fortunately, I do. I'm not just some dude in my garage. I also have clients and a gym that I work at. And I train other people so I can. And I teach classes so I can justify buying a 203 pound kettlebell and a 237 pound kettlebell. They're stupid purchases. But I like to do it because one, I like to have my clients use them because they can. Some people can deadlift them and do some stuff, and it gives them something to work towards, like, oh, this obnoxiously giant kettlebell. I want to try and swing that one day, even if it's just one or two reps. So there's part of that. But really deep down, it's because I like to use them. It's what really helped me stick with kettlebells. Or one of the things was I treat kettlebells as Olympic weightlifting. I've always just loved the snatch movement, dumbbell, barbell, kettlebell. So I want to snatch as heavy as I can. I want to clean and press heavy as I can and squat as heavy as I can with the kettlebell.
- [14:59]
Michael Chernow
So when you're snatching kettlebell. Always a one arm snatch, Right. Like for the most part. So are you snatching one arm? £237?
- [15:09]
Pat Damiano
No, no, that's my goblet squat, but I'll snatch. You know, I've, I've hit the 124 for a few reps. I'm working towards the 141, so.
- [15:17]
Michael Chernow
Wow.
- [15:17]
Pat Damiano
Yeah.
- [15:18]
Michael Chernow
For someone who doesn't understand what kettlebells are like, can you just sort of break it down? Like what? I, I do believe that kettlebells arguably are like the OG functional fitness tool. You know, there's maces and there's those, there's.
- [15:33]
Pat Damiano
What are those things called Bulgarian bags, Bulgarian crescent shape thing. Yeah.
- [15:37]
Michael Chernow
But I would, I mean, from what I've seen and my experience, kettlebells really are sort of like the, the beginning of what functional training was.
- [15:47]
Pat Damiano
Yeah. So it's just a little cannonball with a handle on it. What I always try to tell people is it's not necessarily the kettlebell itself. It's more so the style. The thing is, dumbbells tend to lead to somebody training one direction. Kettlebells tend to lead people training another direction. Most of the things I do with a kettlebell, unless it's really swinging, you kind of can get away with doing it with a dumbbell and then vice versa. You could curl a kettlebell, you could bench press and so on, but people tend to go down a certain path when they pick a piece of equipment. But kettlebells tend to just be a little bit lead to more full body, functional approach and a more well rounded approach. I like to say that I really do truly believe. I don't think they're the greatest thing ever created, but I do think they are the most well rounded piece of equipment that there is. You can get strong with them, you can build muscle, you can get conditioned with them. Mobility, athleticism, all of that. They're not going to be number one at any of those things. If you want to be the strongest person in the world, you got to use a barbell. If you want to be as muscular as possible, you should be using dumbbells and machines and me using a bodybuilding style of training. But if you just want to be well rounded and do a little bit of everything, which 95% of people want to do that I do think they are the best because they just lead to. You swing them for athleticism, you can get powerful with them. You know, they tend to put you in different positions, which is where the whole functional type of thing comes into play. You're doing compound movements. You know, you're not doing curls and tricep extensions. You can, but they're not really meant for that. You can just do so much of that, and you can do it in a strength training fashion, but at the same time getting your heart rate up and so on and so forth. So.
- [17:24]
Michael Chernow
So you're really kind of crushing strength and conditioning at the same time.
- [17:28]
Pat Damiano
100% kettlebells.
- [17:30]
Michael Chernow
Question. So from my journey, right? Like, I've had a number of different esthetic body types over the course of the last 20 years that I've been really focused on training. When I was doing Muay Thai, I was just lean. I was just lean and light, and arguably I always had, like, an athletic build, but for the most part, I was skinny, you know? And then, of course, couple that with running, and I became like, you know, I was just a lean dude. Not a lot of muscle. Once I got into bodybuilding, I put on muscle fast and aesthetically, with the right macros, I was like, arguably the. Like, the best I've ever looked. Right. Then I got into CrossFit, and I looked like my body changed pretty drastically. And I was like, a beefy dude. I was just. I was beefy. Yeah, I was just beefy. And like, I look at a picture of myself, I was like 170 pounds, 5 foot 8, and just like, my wife was like, I don't know if I like that so much. You know, I was just. It was like, you know, all my clothes, you know, I was wearing larges for the first time. And now that I'm sort of. I'm not doing CrossFit as much, I'll hop in into a CrossFit workout or I'll. I'll incorporate some CrossFit stuff into my workouts. One guy's programming that I love to death is Marcus Philly.
- [18:51]
Pat Damiano
I feel like your episode with him, actually, he's great. He's.
- [18:53]
Michael Chernow
His stuff is, like, he's really incorporated all of those things. But the truth is unashamed. Like, I can't get away from the desire to want to look good. You know what I mean? And I think the majority of the people that get into fitness in the first place, really, at the end of the day, whatever modality they're doing, 85 to 99% of why they're doing it is to look good.
- [19:16]
Pat Damiano
100%.
- [19:17]
Michael Chernow
Right.
- [19:18]
Pat Damiano
Completely agree.
- [19:18]
Michael Chernow
And if anybody says differently, they're lying.
- [19:21]
Pat Damiano
Yeah. I always say it's always part of the pie chart. If Your goals is a pie chart. Being strong, being mobile, conditioned, whatever, aesthetics is always part of it. How big is it depends on whatever route you're currently in, but it is always part of everybody's pie chart. No one can deny that.
- [19:37]
Michael Chernow
Do you think kettlebells can actually get you to an aesthetic that is comparable to bodybuilding?
- [19:46]
Pat Damiano
Probably not comparable to bodybuilding just because again, it's more so the nature of how they're used. It's a little bit more traditional. Not traditional, but there's just a little bit more strength training and power into it. So at the end of the day, that like pump you get from bodybuilding, you're just not going to get that from kettlebells because you're not isolating, but you can definitely still build a really good aesthetic. And it's funny you bring this up because I actually made a post yesterday that's in my Dr. About this is most of the aesthetic that people are looking for is going to come from nutrition anyway. You know, like obviously your training plays a part. If you're running marathons, you're not going to be jacked, right? If you're a bodybuilder, you're probably not going to be super skinny and so on and so forth. But for the most part, if you're doing some sort of strength training combined with conditioning hybrid model, the aesthetics that you're looking for are going to come from your nutrition. And that's kind of my whole overarching philosophy on everything is you can look good, whatever that means to you, basically doing any sort of training as long as there's some sort of resistance and conditioning training in it. So I absolutely think you can with kettlebells. I'm bigger than I ever have been in my life. Even when I was Olympic weightlifting, my legs were probably a little bigger, but just overall I weigh more than I have right now. I probably have more muscle than I ever have in my body, just primarily by lifting kettlebells. But I think that's primarily from pushing and progressing because that's at the end of the day, that's the most important part in my diet.
- [21:07]
Michael Chernow
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- [22:32]
Back to the pod. So you're. And. And now you're, you're.
- [22:35]
Pat Damiano
You're.
- [22:35]
Michael Chernow
You're doing kettlebells five days a week and rolling Jiu jitsu twice a week. Roughly.
- [22:40]
Pat Damiano
Roughly, yeah.
- [22:41]
Michael Chernow
And are you doing anything else? Any sort of conditioning stuff or.
- [22:43]
Pat Damiano
No, no, I just get my ass kicked in Jiu Jitsu. That's my conditioning.
- [22:46]
Michael Chernow
Got it. What are your. Do you track your macros?
- [22:49]
Pat Damiano
Never in my entire life.
- [22:51]
Michael Chernow
Okay.
- [22:51]
Pat Damiano
Yeah.
- [22:51]
Michael Chernow
So like, what does a day of eating look like for you?
- [22:54]
Pat Damiano
So day of eating is meal one has been the start lately. I actually really like it a lot because one, it tastes good. But I can. I don't like eating. So I train people every morning. So about 6 to 10 or 11 Monday through Friday, I'm training clients in person. I don't like eating in front of my clients unless it's something simple like that. So meal one or something like that. Maybe a protein shake or a protein bar. Then I'll usually train after I'm done with my clients. I'll call it anywhere from 10 to 12. Then I get home and eat my first actual meal, which is usually like six eggs. I'm on team egg, some sort of protein. So if it's leftover turkey, chicken, steak, beef, something like that thrown in the mix, I have some honey on the side and then maybe some fruit. If I didn't have a shaker bar early in the day, that's usually when I'll get it in. Or a second one. And then I just have a big dinner of usually some sort of meat, usually steak or beef with rice and a salad. It's real simple.
- [23:48]
Michael Chernow
And that's it. You call it quits?
- [23:50]
Pat Damiano
That's it. Yeah. I'll snack on fruit and stuff like that throughout the day, but for the most part, that's it.
- [23:54]
Michael Chernow
Cool.
- [23:54]
Pat Damiano
Real simple.
- [23:55]
Michael Chernow
You're obviously a regimented dude. You know, you have to be to be the kind of person you are. Like, for someone who is constantly in pursuit of growth, I don't. I have yet to meet someone who is constantly in the pursuit of growth, which is typically the people I like to surround myself with because I'm very much like that routine is very important. Yeah, like super duper important. And obviously we're on the Creatures that have a podcast. This podcast does talk a lot about habit. So I'd love to hear sort of what your morning routine looks like.
- [24:28]
Pat Damiano
My morning routine is pretty boring. It is not the typical fitness influencer routine, you know, because I. I'm at the gym at 6am Every day, sometimes 5. So I'm up at 3:50 or 4:30 in the morning. I pour my coffee and I just kind of sit and drink it. I've gone through different phases of like being on my phone trying to get work done. I found it makes me very anxious and I don't like it. So maybe I'll write my to do list for the day because I do keep like an actual notebook, like an old man, with me every day. And I write down my to do list with a pen and then check things off as I go throughout the day. But that's really it. When it comes to my morning routine, I like to keep it calm. My day is super active. And active meaning me. Like I'm on all day. Like, you know, I have clients from 5 or 6am to about 10 or 11. That's four to six straight hours of talking to people. Being in a gym, there's a lot of stimulus. So I like to start my day just as quiet gym.
- [25:20]
Michael Chernow
Are you training out of?
- [25:21]
Pat Damiano
So I'm at Altifit and New Rochelle.
- [25:23]
Michael Chernow
Okay, cool. And then after your clients. So you do. You just. You load up clients in the morning and then. And then you're done for the day with clients.
- [25:31]
Pat Damiano
Yep.
- [25:32]
Michael Chernow
And then what do you focus on for the rest of the day?
- [25:33]
Pat Damiano
I'll get my training in and then eat, chill for a little bit, and then I'm at my desk and that's when I start hanging away at the online business. So that's when I've cleared my afternoon so I could do that now.
- [25:43]
Michael Chernow
That's great, man. Yeah, that's awesome.
- [25:46]
Pat Damiano
Very, very unintentionally structured, but that's the way it kind of like keeps me in the, in the routine of making sure everything's getting done.
- [25:54]
Michael Chernow
Are there any habits that you can think of that you use throughout the day that you might not think of as being a habit, but for someone listening to the podcast would potentially think it was a habit because of how routine you are? Are there any habits that you use throughout the day to sort of just keep you organized, keep you focused?
- [26:12]
Pat Damiano
Kind of what we were just talking about is I what I call intermittent fast social media. So I don't touch social media first thing in the morning. I don't look at my phone until 8am the earliest. Or sorry, not look at my phone social media. I don't open social media until 8am the earliest. And that usually turns into like 10 or 11 actually. Cause I'm with clients. Cause I'm obviously not gonna be on Instagram with them. And then I don't look at social media past 8pm so social media is just so much of what I do. And I try really hard not to doom scroll and be a consumer. I really try and just use it for business, post my stuff, interact with, you know, people who are commenting and DMing and stuff like that. Because I try and do that as best that I can, but I've had to consent condense that into a window because otherwise it's just a 24, 7 clock. That's why I've had to pull back on my mornings and not get any work or social media done, is because I would pour my coffee and first thing pop over Instagram or TikTok, comment back to people, reply to DMs and then I'm driving to work and I'm like shaking and anxious and I'm like, what the hell is that? It's just too much stimulation to start my day. Or, you know, I'm not the best at letting like stupid comments not get to me. So I'll read some dumb comment and I'll reply back angry at 4 o'clock in the morning. And then it bothers me the rest of the morning.
- [27:23]
Michael Chernow
So are you. And was there a moment in time where you were like, okay, I really need to look at this.
- [27:28]
Pat Damiano
But yeah. So when I first the reason that started was this is probably two, three years ago I started really gaining traction on TikTok and TikTok is super toxic. I don't know if you're on it at all.
- [27:40]
Michael Chernow
I mean, I have a presence on TikTok, but I am never on TikTok.
- [27:43]
Pat Damiano
Yeah, it's. It's not the best for your mental health, TikTok, sometimes because everybody's 17 in a troll. So I really started to gain a ton of traction. You see the way I train, it's not your standard way of training. So I get a lot of pushback, which at the time I wasn't good at handling. So I.
- [27:59]
Michael Chernow
Give me an example. Example.
- [28:00]
Pat Damiano
Just like, this is stupid. This isn't optimal. Why would you do that? You can't build muscle doing that. All the typical stuff that I get with the kettlebells and unconventional stuff, you're gonna hurt yourself doing that, Your shoulder's gonna pop out of its socket and so on and so forth. So all of that stuff. And I don't think I was good at one. I didn't think I was looking back, I wasn't fully, fully confident in what I was doing and I didn't have the way to articulate back to them. So now I'll be a little bit more educational, like actually X, Y and Z. And then I'd be like, you're an idiot. And then I just move on. So, like, that would get to me. And I kind of reached the point where I was like, I actually need to step away from social media. My Instagram and that stuff wasn't big. It was really just TikTok. But I was like, I need to get away from this because I didn't know how to handle it. And it was just getting to me and it was making me very anxious and stressed. And that's when I finally started to come back. Okay. As I start to grow a little bit more, just, I matured. I got better at dealing with stupid comments. I got more confident in what I was doing. And then I just kind of started to implement that intermittent fast of it and just don't look at it at certain times.
- [29:04]
Michael Chernow
I love that intermittent fast. Social media, smart.
- [29:07]
Pat Damiano
It's helpful because the days I don't. I very, very Rarely break it. 8am to 8pm, very rarely. But when I do, I feel it. I literally feel the difference.
- [29:19]
Michael Chernow
I could totally relate to that. I also have a wife, and I'm sure your wife is probably no different. That is like the social media sergeant, you know what I mean? She's basically just social media sergeant. Donna, I love you, but, you know, it's really hard Right. When your business, like now being out of the restaurant business for me and totally dialed in and Digital. Right. With Meal 1 and Creatures of Habit. My personal brand, the podcast, like, it's very, very.
- [29:49]
Pat Damiano
It's.
- [29:50]
Michael Chernow
It's ran digitally the whole thing. Right. And so I have to be active on social now. I figured out systems to help me with a bunch of. But ultimately I've, I've. I've gotten so much better at my. I do not consume social media anymore. Like, I don't. I try my best not to scroll, but I, I'm not like necessarily commenting and liking on other people's things and I used to do that because I know it helps grow the channel and now I've actually hired someone to help me with that.
- [30:23]
Pat Damiano
Smart.
- [30:24]
Michael Chernow
Which is like, some people would say, oh, that's dialing it in. That's fake, that's phony. And I'm like, actually, it's really not like it's the way I'm going to. It's the smart way to go because I can't. I tell them exactly who I want to like and comment on. It's not some random shit. It's like people that I genuinely like and appreciate and I want them to know that I am thinking about them and I am looking at their shit. But I just knew, no, also that like, I'm a father and a husband and really at the end of the day, like, that's so much more important to me than like spending time liking and commenting on other people's things. So I spend the brunt of my time now just like I schedule everything out and, you know, I've actually taken my social media back for, for a while. I actually had someone handle my social media for me. I would just give them the content. But yeah, I think social media, having boundaries on social media today is so important.
- [31:17]
Pat Damiano
Yeah. And it's, it's hard. I mean, I have those days where I'm like, the fuck just happened? It's been an hour.
- [31:23]
Michael Chernow
Right.
- [31:24]
Pat Damiano
So it happens. But it's, you know, like you said, it's, it's. It's how things are run now. You know, there's a lot of people whose whole thing is there, like you were saying about yourself, or like a big part of it, they're trying to grow. It's. It's difficult to not be a consumer and not doom. Scroll and to treat it. I always remember, I try and do this. I don't do very well, but I don't know if you know who Jocko willink is he always said post and ghost post it and then leave. Like yeah, you want to interact with the comments but try not to be so.
- [31:53]
Michael Chernow
I love Jocko William. He's the best I got. Discipline equals freedom tattooed on my hand.
- [31:57]
Pat Damiano
I love that. I love that he's the best.
- [31:59]
Michael Chernow
Yeah. And I also like, I love his products too. Have you tried any of his products?
- [32:05]
Pat Damiano
I've had the mulk a couple of times. I actually just recently bought his creatine and then I have a couple origin ghee's.
- [32:12]
Michael Chernow
So cool.
- [32:12]
Pat Damiano
He just, anything he touches is good stuff. I've always been, I don't really consume kind of like what we were just saying with social media like so much of it, our lives is put into it.
- [32:21]
Michael Chernow
Yeah.
- [32:21]
Pat Damiano
I try not to consume a lot so I don't really, I don't scroll on TikTok or Instagram that much or try to like even if I follow people it's primarily like someone I want to actually interact with or a friend or something. So most of my consumption of like other stuff is either on YouTube or podcasts and he's one of my favorites.
- [32:41]
Michael Chernow
I just, I just bought a bunch of his, his, his, his energy drinks. They're like super great ingredients, only 100 milligrams of caffeine. And so I have them stocked in my house and in my office. And then his, his hydration product is also really good.
- [32:58]
Pat Damiano
That's great.
- [32:59]
Michael Chernow
Yeah, so I've been on that. What about sleep? You know you said you wake up at 3:50 or 4:30 in the morning depending on what time you have to be at the gym. I would imagine for someone like you who's deeply passionate about fitness and living that lifestyle, sleep is important.
- [33:16]
Pat Damiano
Yeah.
- [33:17]
Michael Chernow
What does your sort of wind down routine look like?
- [33:19]
Pat Damiano
So social media is done at 8. Me and my wife are usually. Luckily my wife is basically on the same schedule as me, which is super helpful. So we're both in bed around like 8:30, read for probably 15 or 20 minutes and then passed out. So I don't get as much sleep as I would like just by the nature of what I do. It's hard to avoid. It's going to be hard for me to get in bed at 7. It's just not going to happen. Me and my wife have to hang out and I got to eat dinner so it's just really hard to do. I will say this, I do sleep well for the lack of hours that I get. It's the one like human optimization thing. I'm just kind of like right now, right now it's like, I'll deal with this later.
- [33:57]
Michael Chernow
I could use anything for sleep.
- [33:59]
Pat Damiano
My Kindle. If I read, I'll sleep better than any nyquil or anything I've ever taken.
- [34:05]
Michael Chernow
I gotta get you some nightcap, dude, you gotta try that.
- [34:07]
Pat Damiano
I'll try it out.
- [34:08]
Michael Chernow
Grab a bag of that when you, when you leave.
- [34:09]
Pat Damiano
Okay?
- [34:10]
Michael Chernow
It's just great. It's. It's a no melatonin sleep.
- [34:13]
Pat Damiano
Okay. See that's. I've always been afraid of melatonin because I know it kind of messes with.
- [34:16]
Michael Chernow
Your levels and it also like kind of makes you groggy in the morning. So I, I worked on creating that product for a year to make it effective without melatonin and not be groggy in the morning.
- [34:28]
Pat Damiano
I like that.
- [34:29]
Michael Chernow
Well, actually, one question that I wanted to ask you that I think is also probably helpful for the audience to hear that has not really dove into kettlebells or does know anything about kettlebells. Are there any people that you have either learned from or follow specifically in the world of kettlebells?
- [34:45]
Pat Damiano
Yeah, there's a few. So a lot of my stuff, I don't want to say self taught because I've just kind of used them forever. I'd say my training style, the way I develop, the way I train with kettlebells is fairly self taught, but I've learned from guys like Tom de Julie. I'm blanking on Glenn's last name. His Instagram name is the KB6. Eric does kettlebells. And there's a bunch of different people out there. I'm sorry to everybody that I'm forgetting right now, but those are three people. I do remember Eric specifically. I've been, I've known who he was for a while. I saw one of his posts and I was like, let me dive in a little bit harder with these. And then of course there's Pavel, which.
- [35:20]
Michael Chernow
I'm sure you know of as a trainer. Now, how often do you incorporate kettlebells into your programming for your clients?
- [35:28]
Pat Damiano
A decent amount. A part of that is because it's just I can't resist it at this point. But a lot of it is I truly do believe in them. Right. I believe in them. But I also have, I have a client and I have a couple clients who are like, I don't like getting kettlebells. I don't want to use them. Like, all right, cool. You know, I've always said this as like, you know, I've been a personal trainer for 1213 years. It's always been part of who I am and I've always enjoyed like the process of it. And not just like the workout side of it, but more like the human interaction side of it is you can't force your training ideas onto your clients. You can push them in because you, at the end of the day, you do believe in them. You know they work and you like them and you know, you don't want to be doing a bunch of stuff with your clients that you can't stand. You want to have the stuff that you like and believe in. But at the end of the day, there are going to be people who are like, I'm afraid of barbells or I don't like to use them or these kettlebells hurt my wrists and I don't mean like injury or my wrist that don't feel great sitting on my wrist. Like there are going to be people who just don't like certain things and it's, you know, you got to work with that.
- [36:25]
Michael Chernow
I remember after not doing kettlebells for a long ass time, doing like a pretty intense kettlebell circuit and the next day having my, yeah, purple, purple, purple bruises here.
- [36:36]
Pat Damiano
Yeah, it'll happen.
- [36:37]
Michael Chernow
How long is a traditional or your typical kettlebell workout?
- [36:41]
Pat Damiano
Not long, like 40 to 45 minutes if I'm focused. Like part of my, the reason my workouts take a little longer is because I'm filming and talking throughout and stuff like that. But if I don't have any sort of camera set up for filming purposes, It'll take me 40, 45 minutes. And that's part of the reason I like them so much for myself and for other people is as I've gotten older and I'm now like building a business, I don't have nearly as much time. I would love to work out for an hour and a half every single day, but it's just not the case. I have 10 kettlebells in my garage and I could bang out a 40 minute workout and get back to my desk and start doing stuff. And I can only imagine if I had kids, it'd be even more difficult and be more beneficial to have a few kettlebells in 40 minutes four times a week. To just be able to bang it out and be able to do a little bit of everything in that time frame. That's why I do truly, truly believe in them. Not just for myself, but for other people. I think they are the best thing to have at your house if you're someone who's busy and just Isn't looking to set any world records. You want to move, you want to do a little bit of everything and you want to do it in a efficient and time efficient manner. I really do believe in them. I think they're the best for that. And they don't take up any space. They really don't. That's the biggest thing. I have a lot of people on my program online and one of my favorite things is when people send me videos of form to critique and they're in their living room or their bedroom or their basement and they don't have high ceilings or whatever it is. You know, you don't need a full garage gym setup up with barbells and dumbbells in this. You can have a few kettlebells in your, in your living room.
- [38:12]
Michael Chernow
You know, just smash.
- [38:13]
Pat Damiano
You lived in the city, I bet you probably couldn't have fit a barbell wherever you lived.
- [38:17]
Michael Chernow
Definitely not.
- [38:18]
Pat Damiano
You know, a couple kettlebells though, you can. And that's. That's my main thing with them is there. There's a lot of people are busy, they got a lot of stuff going on. And sometimes not going to the gym or not having time to go to the gym is the reason they don't work out. And kettlebells can fix that for them.
- [38:34]
Michael Chernow
What's your favorite kettlebell movement?
- [38:36]
Pat Damiano
I've just always loved snatching, snatching, clean and press. I know it's cheating, but it's just the Olympic weightlifter in me is never gonna die. So I just always love those exercises. No matter what the piece of equipment.
- [38:47]
Michael Chernow
Is, where can the audience follow along and potentially, you know, work with you?
- [38:53]
Pat Damiano
Pat Damiano on Instagram and TikTok and actually Pat Damiano, I just changed it on YouTube as well. So Instagram's the main one. TikTok is there as well. And then starting to get YouTube off the ground a little bit, which has been an interesting process, but it's fun nonetheless.
- [39:08]
Michael Chernow
Awesome. So everybody can just hop over there and if they want to, if they want to actually work with you, you have links in bios and stuff like that.
- [39:13]
Pat Damiano
So link in bio and all of them. It'll take you to my kettlebell program project bell plex. 40 minutes a day, 4 times a week is all you need. Just a few kettlebells and new workouts get uploaded every week.
- [39:23]
Michael Chernow
Boom. I love it, dude. Brother, thank you so, so much, man. You know, I'll probably be hitting you up for some kettlebell programming that I've been putting so much wear and tear on these bones. But I just know at a certain point, man, you know, heavy squats, I barely deadlift anymore.
- [39:42]
Pat Damiano
Yeah.
- [39:43]
Michael Chernow
You know, it's just there is no way that I am going to be able to like live pain free in my 60s and 70s if I continue training the way I am now. And it's fun now and I love it and I've been doing it for fucking long time. But I also know that, like, who's it for? Right?
- [40:02]
Pat Damiano
That's. And you know, if you don't mind me saying one thing too, is one of the things I always tell people when it comes to kettlebells versus barbells is if you're just looking for the result of something, kettlebells can most likely get you there with a lot less wear and tear. If you want to deadlift 500 pounds because you want to be strong, you don't need to do that. You can be strong doing some heavy kettlebell deadlifts and some kettlebell swings. And you could do it with dumbbells too, whatever. If you want to deadlift 500 pounds because you feel like deadlifting 500 pounds and you think that's cool for the benefits that deadlifting heavy gives you, there are other ways to do that in a much friendlier way.
- [40:38]
Michael Chernow
Like, what are the benefits to deadlifting 500 pounds? Like, what would be the benefit of that for anyone? Just being able to. Obviously, aside from being able to say.
- [40:46]
Pat Damiano
I deadlifted 500 pounds, honestly, I think that's. Realistically, the trainer in me says that's the only reason. The ego lifter in me who also likes to lift heavy is like, because I need to be strong. It's like, if you can deadlift 500 pounds, realistically for normal everyday life, you are more than strong enough. You know, there is a level of strong enough when it comes to. Now I'm also talking to like the average person. Right. If you are a professional football player. Yeah. Maybe deadlifting going from 500 to 600 pounds in a deadlift have some benefit. I'm talking to the regular person. Deadlifting 500 pounds is plenty heavy enough. So was 400. So is 315, you know, so there's. Once you have that in you, you're strong enough. Right. And then maybe once in a while you do it just to make sure you still got it in you. But chasing those.
- [41:31]
Michael Chernow
Well, I know that we said that we would wrap it up, but I do have a few more things because now that we're talking about this, you.
- [41:35]
Pat Damiano
Know, like, sorry to open the box?
- [41:37]
Michael Chernow
No, no. But I do think, I think deadlifting is a great thing to talk about. So deadlifting is like, quote unquote, like the best, the best compound movement ever, right? It touches every single main muscle body in your, in your frame. And so however, it's also the most dangerous. Without a doubt. There's no. I, like, I don't care what anybody says it is the most conventional. Deadlifting with weight is the most dangerous. I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on deadlifting. Lighter weight and is that impactful? Like if you were to do steady, you know, tempos with 135 pounds, a deadlift, are you gonna get, is it going to impact change or growth in any way?
- [42:29]
Pat Damiano
Absolutely. And that's kind of the point I'm trying to make is like, you know, if you want to just get the benefits of deadlifting, which is a stronger lower back, you're a little bit more functional, your glutes are stronger, maybe you want to run a little bit faster. If you just want those benefits, you can do that with Tempo 135 or you can do RDLS at 185. You know, a lot of this is going to depend on the person, right? You know, depending on what is heavy for them. What's like a 75 to 80% in terms of intensity. But you can do all of that stuff with single leg RDLs, kickstand deadlifts, kettlebell swings.
- [43:00]
Michael Chernow
How important is progressive overload though? Like in your mind?
- [43:04]
Pat Damiano
Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's super important. But people tend to. I know you don't, but most people think progressive overload literally means put more weight on. And it's. If you gave me a 70 pound kettlebell, I could progressively overload that 10 different ways without just doing more weight. I could do more reps, I could do more reps in less time. Kind of like an AMRAP type of situation. I could go single leg deadlift instead of two legged. I can do tempo, I can do a longer tempo, slower tempo, things along those lines. There's so many different ways that you can do it without just being like, all right, more weight. Now that's the simplest way and it's most fun, you know, just add more weight. But there are ways to work around progressive overload without just being like, all right, put more weight on. And that's the question I get a lot with kettlebells is how do you progressively overload without buying another one? There's a lot of different ways it just takes a little bit of thinking and a little bit of learning.
- [43:58]
Michael Chernow
Yeah, What a great compliment. I love talking about this shit. I could talk about it all day long just because it's. I'm so passionate about it. And I think you and I think very similarly just like, in this idea of. In the pursuit of better, right? And not necessarily better, like, have to be the best, but better feeling as a human being, right? Like, seeing what I've got and how much I've got and really trying to tap into the upper limits of what life has to offer. And I think I apply that to every area of my life, realistically. Like, I definitely do it in the gym. I definitely do it at work. I definitely do it with my family. But I really try to, like, explore, you know? I think a great example for me was, like, this summer I went on vacation, right? And on vacation for me, like, I definitely train. I train differently. I train with bands, and I'll bring, You know, I'll go for runs and stuff like that. Maybe if I'm really feeling it, I'll bring my trx and if there's a great gym, I'll pop into a gym. But really, I don't put the pressure on, but I also allow myself to indulge in food, right? And I think that, like. Like, in our world, like, that, for me, is like, living the best version of myself, right? Where I can be in France and, like, totally explore the. The cuisine there without feeling, like, locked into this. Oh, man, I can't have that, you know, pile of cheese, right?
- [45:29]
Pat Damiano
Like, when you're in France, you gotta do it. You gotta do it, you know, you.
- [45:32]
Michael Chernow
Have to, and I don't.
- [45:33]
Pat Damiano
It's weird.
- [45:34]
Michael Chernow
I think that is also not, like. That's not spoken about often, right? Like, exploring how you can feel the best version of yourself, knowing that you have a routine, that you are disciplined, human, that, like, when you come back from a trip like that, you're right back on the. You're right back in the saddle.
- [45:51]
Pat Damiano
You know what I mean?
- [45:52]
Michael Chernow
It's not like, oh, man, I was in France and I ate baguettes and cheese all week. Now I'm like, now I'm the baguette and cheese guy.
- [45:58]
Pat Damiano
Yeah. And I think it goes into what you just said is being disciplined and knowing you're gonna snap back on it. Cause people ask me all the time, like, do you work out when you're away? Like, they think I'm crazy. I'm like, actually, when I go away, I never fucking work out. Almost never. Like, if we go up to the lake, I might bring a couple kettlebells and move for 20 minutes. But, like, I'm chilling, I'm gonna sleep, I'm gonna eat, and I'm gonna relax. Because as soon as I walk in my front door, the next like, and I'm back home, we're right back on track. And that's what lets you have fun while you're away, is knowing, damn, this isn't gonna screw everything up. It's like, no, just a few days. I'll get right back to it.
- [46:31]
Michael Chernow
All right, dude, we're gonna actually wrap it up now. Thank you, man. This was an awesome conversation. I know that the audience is going to love it. You know, whenever we talk about things like this, so many people that listen to this podcast are just fired up about the world of wellness and the world of sort of fitness, nutrition, mindset, and so this is like, really true, able content. We never really talked about kettlebells on the Creatures have a podcast. So happy to be the first. I got the. I got the man, the myth, the legend to give us the rundown. So thank you so much, brother.
- [46:59]
Pat Damiano
Appreciate you having me, man.
- [47:00]
Michael Chernow
Absolutely. All right, y'all. I am stoked about that conversation, and I'm really fired up to actually get potentially bring kettlebells into my programming a couple of days a week to see how my body feels, to see if I am able to get the output that I like from strength training, is what I'm doing these days with kettlebells. I've got a bunch of kettlebells at the house, and I'm gonna knock on Pat's door for a couple of programs that I can just throw in on a couple of days a week.
- [47:30]
And there you have it, folks. I hope we delivered some valuable content for you to implement into your life on a daily basis. Please remember that our habits have the power to make us or break us. Replacing bad habits with great ones is the answer to living a life of happiness, optimism, and high performance. We are capable of achieving anything. We all have what it takes to give it all we've got. Commit to one great habit each day and truly commit to and watch how everything in your life starts evolving from good to great. If you enjoyed this podcast, please follow us wherever you listen to your podcast, give us a five star rating and a nice review that will help us grow this podcast, bring on more amazing guests, and continue to deliver invaluable content on a weekly basis. Lastly, please share this podcast with any friends or family that you think might appreciate. And always remember, want plus do equals have. Until the next one, fam.
- [48:34]
Peace.