Pavement, People, and Purpose: Inside NYC’s Run Club Culture with Matt Christopherson

Summary

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Pavement, People, and Purpose: Inside NYC’s Run Club Culture

Kreatures of Habit Podcast | Host: Michael Chernow | Guest: Matty Kristofferson | Sept 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Michael Chernow sits down with Matty Kristofferson—athlete, entrepreneur, and now an insider within New York City’s bustling run club community. They dive into the transformative power of running, the profound sense of belonging that run clubs foster, the intersection of fear and personal growth, and the habits that support performance and wellbeing. Matty’s journey from training for an ultramarathon amidst personal upheaval to running with 40 clubs in 25 days reveals vulnerability, resilience, and the magic of routine.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embracing Hard Mornings & Building Resilience

• Matty opens up about waking up mentally drained despite going to bed inspired after an uplifting track session, emphasizing the unpredictability of moods and the need for tools to reset oneself.
  • “If I could start my morning with doing something hard… now I’m set up for success for the rest of the day.” (Matty, 01:17)
• Cold plunges and doing challenging things early in the day are framed as ways to build mental toughness and shift physiological state for the better.
  • “Embarking on something hard... grows that resilience, that tenacity.” (Matty, 00:55)

2. Fear: Heights, Growth, and Taking Leaps

• Matty discusses his fear of heights, distinguishing between literal and figurative leaps, and how real change often comes from stepping into discomfort.
  • “It's always scary getting to that line…taking that leap.” (Matty, 02:57)

3. The Ultramarathon Story: Running for a Cause Amidst Crisis

• From not identifying as a ‘runner’ to running 125 km (nearly 100 miles) for a friend battling cancer, Matty describes how running became a vehicle for self-discovery and healing.
  • “Running specifically has now just given so much back to me and it's been a part of my life… it changed everything for me.” (Matty, 04:41)
• The challenge was compounded by personal hardships—marital separation and doubters of his ambitious fundraising and logistical goals.
  • “In that time frame that I was living alone suddenly.” (Matty, 08:29)

4. Identity, Community & Belonging in Run Clubs

• Michael and Matty explore the run club scene in NYC: 40 clubs in 25 days, over 200 miles logged, each club embodying a different flavor and community.
  • “The sense of belonging is a through line across all of them.” (Matty, 14:05)
• Run clubs vs. “gangs” analogy highlights how humans seek community; run clubs channel belonging into positive, supportive environments.
  • “They're basically gangs with positive outcomes.” (Michael, 16:16)
• Stories from the Bronx: The anecdote of kids running with untied shoes as a vestige of claiming one’s block, now transformed into a ritual within a run club.
  • “He has to tell some people… tie your shoes if you want to come run with us.” (Matty, 18:40)

5. Diversity & Accessibility of Run Culture

• Diversity is the norm—members range from elite athletes with high-end gear to those in street clothes, proving running “appeals to the masses.”
  • “There's no boundaries… Some guys are rolling up on BMX bikes… others are technically dialed in.” (Matty, 20:37)

6. Habits, Morning/Evening Routines, and Discipline

• Matty’s morning routine: Wakes at 4am, 10 minutes reading focused on gratitude, protein-rich breakfast, and exercise—all completed by 7am.
  • “I am, like, through and through, the epitome of a creature of habit.” (Matty, 24:36)
• On behavior change: Getting to the ‘start line’—whether of a run or a new goal—is the real act of vulnerability and courage.
  • “The greatest act of vulnerability is getting on the start line.” (Matty, 25:11)

7. Harnessing Fear as Energy

• Michael reframes fear as an abundant source of energy that can be redirected toward achievement.
  • “Fear is energy...imagine you were able to use it as opposed to allow it to force you in a different direction.” (Michael, 26:34)
• Matty on others’ doubts: He learned to use others’ projected fears as fuel.
  • “I use it as fuel to show them otherwise.” (Matty, 27:58)

8. Nutrition, Recovery & The Demands of 200+ Miles

• Lessons learned: Always know your distance—early mistakes (insufficient food, water, electrolytes) led to better preparation later.
  • “I learned my lesson really quick to really understand… the distances that we were doing.” (Matty, 29:18)
• Recovery tactics: Physical therapy, chiropractic, ice baths, sauna, and especially guided sessions for rest and mental reset.
  • “The mental and emotional pull… I underestimated the mental and emotional pull… allowed me to reframe and regroup.” (Matty, 32:26)

9. The Power of Cold Plunges

• Both host and guest use cold exposure as a reset button for hard days, noting its powerful impact on mood and mental resilience.
  • “Mentally, what the cold plunge does for me is… far more powerful… than what it does for me scientifically, biologically, or physically. The cold plunge is really this tool… like an antidepressant.” (Michael, 35:20)
  • “If I could start my morning with doing something hard… now I’m set up for success for the rest of the day.” (Matty, 37:25)

10. Sleep as Performance Foundation

• Normally disciplined, Matty’s routine (bed at 8:30, up at 3:45/4am) has been challenged by late-night run clubs.
  • “Sleep has been tough… it's just a sacrifice that I’m willing to make on this journey.” (Matty, 39:08)
• Michael shares his evolving relationship with sleep and self-grace.

11. Evening Routine & Supplements

• Matty’s wind-down: An “avid bathlete,” nightly Epsom salt baths for recovery, magnesium L-threonate before bed, and minimal screen time.
  • “I joke around that I’m like the bathlete... I immensely love baths before bed.” (Matty, 42:35)

12. Connection, Vulnerability & the Power of Men’s Retreats

• Importance of safe, vulnerable male spaces: Both express the lasting impact of men’s retreats.
  • “There’s very few spaces like the one that you created out there. And I think that the world needs it, men need it, women need men to do it.” (Matty, 44:15)

13. Notable Interactions in Run Club Culture

• Bronx Burners run club cited as the most engaged group, full of meaningful questions and younger members, e.g., interacting with 17-year-old Griffin about self-worth and universal deservingness of love.
  • “Every single one of these people… deserves to be loved. And that’s just a fact.” (Matty, 45:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On running as rebirth:
  “Eight months before that, I was… drunk, using heroin and smoking crack. Right. And so… absolute freedom for the first time that I can recall in my life.”
  – Michael, 13:08

• On the run club/gang parallel:
  “Run clubs are basically gangs with positive outcomes.”
  – Michael, 16:16

• On the vulnerability of beginnings:
  “The greatest act of vulnerability is getting on the start line.”
  – Matty, 25:11

• On deserving love:
  “Everyone deserves to be loved. And that’s just a fact.”
  – Matty, 45:44

• On inner drive:
  “You’re a human that does what he says he’s gonna do. And I really do think that… is a skill set, but also a character trait that is rare.”
  – Michael, 11:13

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – 01:20 | Matty’s rough morning + the power of cold plunges
• 02:08 – 03:30 | Confronting fears—heights, leaps, and personal growth
• 04:04 – 07:56 | The ultramarathon & running for a cause amid personal crisis
• 10:13 – 20:37 | Matty’s background & immersion into NYC’s run club scene
• 15:22 – 20:37 | Run clubs as positive “gangs” and stories from the Bronx
• 24:36 – 26:34 | Habit formation and the vulnerability of starting
• 26:34 – 27:58 | Fear as energy and fuel for achievement
• 29:18 – 33:48 | Nutrition, recovery, and physical/mental/emotional challenges
• 35:14 – 37:25 | The role of cold plunges for mental health and resilience
• 39:02 – 42:23 | Sleep discipline, disruption, and self-grace
• 42:35 – 43:36 | Evening routines and the “bathlete” identity
• 44:15 – 47:25 | Impact of men’s retreats and forming deeper connections
• 45:44 – 47:25 | Self-worth and memorable Bronx Burners run club interaction

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Tone & Takeaway

The conversation is raw, warm, and often deeply reflective, weaving humor and humility with actionable insight. Both men share a passion for the transformative effect of habits and community—and underscore that real strength comes from vulnerability, consistency, and daring to show up. Whether a runner or not, listeners are invited to rethink their relationship with discipline, discomfort, and the search for belonging.

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Transcript

[Matty Kristofferson]

So I woke up this morning and I was feeling beyond just exhausted. I was mentally drained. And so to your point, I was just having this rough morning. It was a late night. We did track work, man, we can talk about this later or another time, but the club that we met with last night was so inspiring. It filled my bucket, went to bed on a high, and I woke up this morning just defeated. And I was like, how is this even possible? And to your point, like, you can sit there and try to unpack it as much as you want, but it's not going to get you anywhere. And so I actually went and booked a session and enjoyed a cold plunge this morning. And I think in the same context, it was like, how can. This will shift things for me, right? This will shift things mentally for me. You know, embarking on something hard, whether it's doing a cold plunge for three or four minutes or doing that extra rep when you don't want to do it, it grows that, you know, that part of your brain, that resilience, that tenacity to be able to do those kind of hard things when you don't want to do it. And it suddenly shifted everything. And if I could start my morning with doing something hard, you know, whether that's a three minute or four minute cold plunge, now I'm set up for success for the rest of the day. And I felt so much better and it shifted my state, you know, mentally and physiologically, probably like you said.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm Michael Chernow and this is the Creatures of Habit podcast.

[Podcast Narrator]

Our habits will make us or break us.

[Michael Chernow]

It's just that simple.

[Podcast Narrator]

I've lived on both sides of the tracks and have learned that the decisions we make on a consistent basis truly define who we are as human beings.

[Michael Chernow]

On this show, I will be interviewing.

[Podcast Narrator]

Some of the most inspiring, motivating, and high performing humans I've encountered to share their daily habits, routines and rituals that.

[Michael Chernow]

Help them stay on top of their.

[Podcast Narrator]

Game and ultimately happy. So sit back, relax, and pay attention, because what you hear over the next 30 to 45 minutes could potentially change your life.

[Michael Chernow]

Let's go. Matty Kristofferson, I want to kick off by asking you about what scares you.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah, I think probably the. The biggest thing that scares me is the fear of not growing and not getting over those, you know, constantly if you get stagnant. I think that. I think, yeah, the fear of not growing.

[Michael Chernow]

I want to ask you what actually scares you.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Well, you told me about Hoax, that your previous guest, about being on the top of the Mountain and summiting those, those crazy peaks. I think heights, heights is a big thing, probably.

[Michael Chernow]

Okay.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

So what happens when you are up high and look down and like, what, what goes through your mind?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah. I don't know. Ever since a young, at a young age, I've always had that fear of heights. You know, you get those butterflies when you're standing on the edge. I think it's taken that leap. Right. Like, I think it's, it's quite literal how scary it is, but if you think about it figuratively is like taking that leap. And in any part of life, it's just. It's always scary getting to that line, you know, And I think the heights thing is, you know, the literal heights thing is scary for me. But yeah, not so much figuratively. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Do you think that running from Vancouver to Whistler, 185 kilometers. Is that what it is?

[Matty Kristofferson]

125.

[Michael Chernow]

125 kilometers.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Just shy of 100 miles? Basically, yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Were you scared going into that?

[Matty Kristofferson]

You know, I did not have any fear around that at all. I. No, never even crossed my mind.

[Michael Chernow]

Interesting. Were you a runner before? Was running your thing before you embarked on that massive challenge?

[Matty Kristofferson]

So. So, you know, running would be my choice of, you know, fitness, but not, I'm not. Didn't classify myself as a runner. I had only run one marathon 14 years prior. That was the last time I, I did a time 10K. You know, I would run, you know, one or two kilometers just to get warmed up, you know, part of my fitness routine. But no, I was not, not a runner before that last year.

[Michael Chernow]

Are you a runner now?

[Matty Kristofferson]

I would say that I am a runner, yeah. It is part of my life. It's changed my life since last year.

[Michael Chernow]

Why running?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Well, if we backtrack to the story about what happened last year and the choice that I made to embark on that ambitious plan in 90 days to run an ultramarathon to raise money for my friend battling cancer. It just. That sport, running specifically has now just given so much back to me and it's been a part of my life and, and ever since last year when I did that ultra, it changed everything for me.

[Michael Chernow]

In what way?

[Matty Kristofferson]

I think, you know, on the surface level you can see that, you know, I've, I've now become this runner identity around running. What's possible with, with running like running long distances and, and all of that on the surface. But if I dig a lot deeper, it's, it's much more than, than just a means to stay Fit last year. It really made me look inward and a sense of self worth and belonging and yeah, there was a lot of opportunity to reflect on that journey in the 90 days last year when I embarked on it.

[Michael Chernow]

When you were running that roughly hundred miler, can you point to a few moments that you had to really dig deep and what that felt like and how you got through it?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Well, first of all, the training, it happened really suddenly, so some people like to frame it that it was like off the couch into an ultra. I only had 90 days to train, so it's pretty foreign. Normally you're training for a marathon right now. Normally it's a four month, six month program for a marathon. And this was, you know, three and a half marathons that I was doing, embarking on. And in that tight window, it was 90 days. And so I was running two marathons every weekend for 12 weeks straight. And I think one of the hardest parts was where I really had to dig deep is in that training. Concurrently with that training, I was going through a lot of stuff through my marriage. My wife had asked for space that left me living alone at my mom's couch in a hotel room, all of that. And so just having the mental capacity and the fortitude to keep going during the training alone was a big undertaking and really, you know, forced me to really look at myself and look inward and see if I wanted to do this and then continue down that road. So that was a really hard part to dig is. Leading up to the run, did the.

[Michael Chernow]

News come from your wife prior to you making the decision to do the run, or was it after?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah, it was right after. So it was a couple weeks after I'd committed to my friend, two time Olympian, Olympic champion, that I would run for her in her fight against cancer. And it was around three weeks later, after my commitment, that my wife had requested space. Happily married for seven years, together for 10. And that came as a huge shock.

[Michael Chernow]

So you were blindsided by it?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Transparently. We were going through counseling. We had a counselor that we would visit once a month. You know, to my understanding and the way that it was presented and you know, still to this day I believe this to be true, that it was, you know, just for maintenance. Right. It's, it's a healthy thing to do and that's what we're going through. There was no indication that anything was wrong. But then when that news broke to me, it felt really blindsided. Like for me and my experience with it, yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

What do you think the hardest thing you've been through in life to date has been so far.

[Matty Kristofferson]

I think that was probably one of the hardest times for sure. There was a lot of people that said that I couldn't do it, and when I say couldn't do it, couldn't run that distance in that short period of training, couldn't achieve the goal because I needed to get the whole ultra marathon government sanctioned, which has never been done before, across five cities, across all five police forces and the government. I needed to get an event permit. In that short period of time, we had ambitions to raise 125,000 in just over three months. And there was a lot of doubters and a lot of people projected on me that it wouldn't be possible. And that was in the same time frame that I was living alone suddenly.

[Michael Chernow]

Who is Maddie Kristofferson?

[Matty Kristofferson]

I'd like to say that I'm a charismatic guy from Vancouver, born and raised. Yeah. I went to university for kinesiology at SFU in Vancouver. I swam for the Canadian national water polo team at a young age. So a lifelong athlete. Performance and athletics have always been part of my life. And after university, got kind of thrusted into entrepreneurship. Vancouver is a hotbed for venture capital and learned how to raise money at an early age and. Yeah. And then had a couple ventures along the way. And I just feel like I'm a guy that shows up for others and I take risks.

[Michael Chernow]

I'm here to tell you that you are one of the most genuine dudes I know. And I've only known you for about a year or so, but in the time that we've spent together, you are such a kind, genuine, hard working, relentless person. Anybody that meets you gets that immediate feeling. And it's a special thing because you're also, in my opinion, a fearless guy. Right. Like, I asked you about fear because it's not easy. I mean, what you've just done, right? Like, you literally uprooted your life. You came to New York to really uncover or discover the world of running club culture. Right? You just. You've run over 200 miles in the last 25 days. I don't know how many run clubs you've. You've run with and we'll talk about that. But you, you were the same age and you've decided to just do this and paused everything in your life to do it. Come to New York, bunk up in a hotel room and just, you know, you're a human that does what he says he's gonna do. And I really do think that that is for anybody Listening. That alone, someone who does what they say they're going to do is a skill set, but also a character trait that is rare. Right. We live in a world where there's a lot of smoke and mirrors.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

And so I want to dig into the desire to want to understand the run club culture because, look, sharing a little bit for me, when I was getting sober, I found running. And, you know, I don't consider myself a runner today, even though I'm training for the marathon then I was definitely a runner from 2005-20, probably 10. Running was like, a huge part of my daily protocol.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

I remember so clearly this one moment, and I've shared this before, but I remember so clearly this one moment where I was running over the Williamsburg Bridge one day and I was newly sober. Maybe I was within the first year of sobriety. And they had kind of just finished, like, the construction on the Williamsburg, or they were finishing the construction on the Williamsburg Bridge. And I was running over the bridge, and I was on the downside, coming from Brooklyn into Manhattan. And there are these, like, red. There's like this red frame on that side of the bridge. And I remember looking up and it was a perfect day. And I was running. And probably eight months before that, I was, you know, drunk, using heroin and smoking crack. Right. And so I remember looking up and seeing this blue sky and watching these red frames passing and opening up my arms like this and feeling absolute freedom for the first time that I can recall in my life.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Really like a gift from God gift.

[Michael Chernow]

That I could be out moving my body on a perfect day, experiencing the bluest of blue skies. And like, that was a feeling of pure bliss and freedom. And that, I think, is why people become obsessed with and or completely passionate about running.

[Matty Kristofferson]

I agree. Yeah. And we've heard a lot of those stories on the road. You know, similar sentiment, different. Different story. But just what. How running's changed so many people's lives.

[Michael Chernow]

What do you think it is?

[Matty Kristofferson]

You know, there's. There's a vast range. So as you said, you know, I'm here in New York. We've done 40 run clubs in 25 days. I've ran every single mile with every club. It's close to 200 miles. And we've shared the stories and we've shared stories in advance of, you know, commencing the run. During the run, people will approach me and share their story about running. One of the biggest things that is a through line across many of the clubs and the runners themselves is this sense of belonging, is One big thing, right? We had the opportunity to run with some clubs up in the Bronx. You know, I don't know, you know, the New York area as well as you do, but you know, there's underprivileged and, you know, low income communities. And what I found is this is a sense of belonging and that is a through line across all of them. You know, it's an identity to people. There's some clubs that I've been doing, you know, beyond, you know, just the last couple years, they've been running their club for over a decade and they haven't missed a single run. I have a couple in mind right now. But yeah, and people show up.

[Michael Chernow]

You know, it's so interesting, right, that you say it's a sense of belonging because when you really think of like a gang, right, A gang, when you talk to some gang members. And I've listened to a lot of podcasts with gang members, but I've also had the privilege of talking to some gang members. And honestly, as a young kid, like being involved with a lot of. In the city, we call them crews.

[Matty Kristofferson]

As a kid and we've chatted before. I grew up in an area of Vancouver that was surrounded by a lot of gang members and stuff. And so, yeah, I can relate to that.

[Michael Chernow]

I think like a gang is just a group of people that want to feel a sense of belonging. Right. A gang is also a football team, a gang is also a basketball team. It's just unfortunately there are directions that this sense of belonging happened to fall into based on environmental circumstances. Right. And so I think it's so interesting that you dove deep into the world of run clubs because they're basically gangs with positive outcomes. Right? So how can we convey that message? Like you're in a gang because of your environmental circumstance. You're in a run club because of your environmental circumstance and your values. And your values. But if you can take the environmental circumstance of the run club and try to seep them into more, less environmentally friendly places, you've got a shot at getting some young person to choose the run club over the gang. Right? Because you're going to get that same sense of belonging.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah. I got a story to share about this, if I may. So up in, up. Up in the Bronx uptown, there was a guy, I was running with a guy and this, this club was huge. We showed up at 7:15 at night and there was about six people on the corner. It's like, where's the club? And I walked up and, you know, two people stretching over here. There's another person stretching over there. And they're like, just wait. It was Monday night. Not a word of a lie. 220 people showed up within a couple minutes. Wow. And I had no idea where we were gonna run. No idea. There's no real sidewalks. There's no trail. And we took over the street. And these guys have been running the same run club every Monday night for 13 years. And I share this because when I was talking to one of the guys who is somewhat of a co founder, he's been there since day one, he was telling me about how in that part of New York, you wouldn't tie your shoes as kids. And the reason why you wouldn't tie your shoes is because you wanted to make a presence that you own that block of the neighborhood, that you're not running, you're not going anywhere. That's your turf. And he said, to this day, it feels strange that he has to tie his shoes when he runs. And to this day, kids show up at their club on Monday night with their shoes untied because they're so ingrained in them, like their habit as a kid to not tie their shoes because if you tie your shoes, you're a cop because you're running. And that's the story he shared. Wow. And so now he has to inform these kids that show up and don't have their shoes tied. So I go back to this whole, you know, belonging in this gang thing and the overlap of, you know, how parallel they are just with, you know, different outcomes and different values. But these kids are showing up and they're like, they're ingrained that habit of not tying their shoes. And he has to tell some people, some of the younger generations, like, tie your shoes if you want to come run with us. And I felt that it was a really fascinating thing about in this, like, you know, low income, underprivileged community.

[Michael Chernow]

So after 25 days, 40 run clubs, 200 miles, what do you think your greatest learning has been along this journey?

[Matty Kristofferson]

I think that the most fascinating part I'll start with that was the diversity across all of it. You know, think for the assumption that I made, maybe the assumption that many people make is, you know, you have to be a runner. Air quote. Right. The first thing, like, are you classified as a runner? We've seen all walks of life, right? We've been to all women's clubs. We've been to clubs that have been around for 24 years. We've been to clubs that are newly created, only like a year or two old that are more, you know, more with the current brands and cultures and stuff like that in performance and sport and what have you. But there's ones that have been around that are, I don't even know how to frame it properly. Like they're urban street, they're like street runner gangs, like you said. And the diversity is really, really interesting and really cool actually, because I feel like the sport can actually appeal to the masses. This is something that there's no boundaries, right? Some guys are rolling up on their BMX bikes and kind of parking them upside down and, and then going for a run. They don't have any kind of high performance gear, you know, they just have like their urban wear. But they're running on the track. It was fascinating. It's something that I would never even have thought would have been part of the experience, right? And then, and then you go from that spectrum all the way to like the high performance, right? The track clubs, they're clocking these really fast miles. They're really dialed in with all the technical gear, the watches and all that. So I feel like that sp. The sport of running is, is, is really something that has given back to a lot of people in so many different ways. But yeah, it's, it's, it's fascinating how, how many people it's touched and the different types of people interrupting this episode.

[Podcast Narrator]

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[Michael Chernow]

1 Today, back to the pod. We're on the Creatures of Habit podcast. We talk a lot about habits here. My habits nearly killed me for a period of time in my life and now have ultimately given me the life that I could have only wished for having. Of course, there's bad days, right? I had one yesterday. But I will say now, venturing back into running a little bit, for me, it is very, very hard for someone who's not a runner or is not accustomed to, you know, getting out there on the street to run, to just get their shoes on and go right. It's like, it really is difficult. And for me, too, like, this morning, I knew that I had a run to do this morning. It wasn't a long run, but it was a run. No matter. Long or short, fast or slow, like, running is not an easy thing to do. It doesn't matter how conditioned your body is, like, running is going to be a challenge for everyone who attempts to do it. And I think the hardest part is really getting your shoes on and getting out the door to just start right, like, that's it. That's, like, the hardest piece.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Because once you're doing it truly is. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Once you're doing it, even though, like, you're, you know, it might not, you're suffering a little bit, you're doing it already, so you're just like, all right, I'm going to finish this. How much do you think habit plays into the ability to join something like a run club or. Or, like, how much do you think habit plays into your life in general?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Well, you know, for the longest time, everyone knows me as a creature of habit. I started reframing it because I didn't want to get it confused. So I was like, a man of rout. That's what I started saying. Because I was like, I'm having creature habit. I'm a creature habit. And, like, you know, the name says it all. But I am, like, through and through, the epitome of a creature of habit. I wake up at the same time, I'm an early riser. 4:00am I read for 10 minutes. You know, typically, it's something around gratitude shifting my mindset. Like young play blow. Just a short read to really anchor the day. And then I get into, you know, my first meal, typically meal one or anything that has a minimum of 30 grams of protein depending on where I'm at. So protein dense meal. And then, and then I go to the gym or go for a run and that is my daily routine that's all done before 7am and you know, when it comes to running specifically and tying your shoes and how habits are so important around that, I think it's, you know, like anything in life. I heard this once that you know, the greatest act of vulnerability is getting on the start line. And I share that because when you approach any start line, whether that's starting a venture like a business, it's getting to that marathon start line, it's getting just to the start line of starting running. It's where fear creeps in, right? Fear of failure, fear of judgment. And once you start moving, like you said Michael, once you start moving, then everything else kind of shifts away. Yeah, you're going to feel the pain, you're going to have the pain of business pains and anything that you're advent like, you know, you're pursuing. But getting to that start line is the key thing.

[Michael Chernow]

I agree. I've been thinking a lot about fear, a lot, a lot, a lot about fear. And what I've concluded is that fear is energy, right? It's energy and a lot of it is manifested and created ourselves. The fear of getting your shoes on to get out the door, it's fear, it's energy, it, it rocks us. Our body feels the fear. It's all encompassing at times, right. It's truly some of the most powerful, if not the most powerful energy. Right? And what I've been thinking a lot about is imagine that that energy was, you were capable of encapsulating that energy in some way and not being, not allowing it to force you in a different direction. Right. Imagine you were able to take that energy, that fear energy, that fear of failure, fear of death, you know, self doubt, fear of, you know, judgment. Like all those fears, imagine you were able to use it as opposed to allow it to force you in a different direction. Because I think fear is so powerful, so powerful that it forces people away.

[Matty Kristofferson]

And I think that's the what separates the elite from the average. Right. If you think about, you know, even to put context to the run last year that I did not self categorizing myself in that department, but people were projecting their fears on me, telling me that I couldn't physically do it, telling me I, I couldn't actually raise $125,000. And that was their belief. That was the fear that they had bottled inside them. And when they projected it on me, I use it as fuel to show them otherwise. So I shifted and I shifted that energy to like. No, I. I know. You know, it was an educated bet. I didn't know for certain, but I knew well enough what I was capable of and that there was nothing that is going to get in my way from trying to achieve that.

[Michael Chernow]

24 days, 200 miles of running. I would imagine that there needed to be some nutritional decisions that you were making to make sure you were properly fueled. I'm sure that there were some recovery decisions that you were making to make sure that you were ready to run the next day. Can you talk about some of the things that you've done over the last month that have like really helped or not helped your performance on the road?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah. Well, first and foremost, fueling your performance is key. You know, I used to be a man that worked out on an empty stomach. And you know, that's okay if you're gonna go do a 45 minute workout, something light, what have you. However, your performance is that much stronger and that much better, and you feel that much better if you fuel it in advance. So, you know, on the road here, you know, we've had some cre, some meal. One, creatures of habit that in the morning, not every morning, but most mornings, also had some other protein bars that were 30 grams of protein. Again, I prioritize protein in the morning as my first meal of the day. So any opportunity, we had that throughout this journey, for the last 25, 26 days, most of the times the runs were either seven in the morning or seven at night. Many of the days we double stacked. So it was bookended during the days so I'd have something before I went out for the run. And then when we came back from the run and it varied, right, we'd run four miles or we'd run 19 miles. And sometimes I didn't know the distance that we were running. For instance, the very first run that we did, when I landed here in New York, I actually thought it was six miles. Turns out it was 13. That's a big difference. I didn't. So if you think about mistakes along the way, I didn't have any. I had a, I think that morning I had a protein bar, a grass fed beef protein bar. But after that I didn't have any water, I didn't have any electrolytes, I didn't have Any gels. I didn't have anything on on me during that run. And it was hot, it was summer streets here, so the entire roads were closed off. There was thousands upon thousands runners. Um, so that was a little bit of a trip. And I learned my lesson really quick to really understand and make sure that I knew the distances that we were doing. Some of these runs have been intense. Right. A lot of track work, speed work, which are equally as hard even if you're not doing the distance. So that's put a toll on the body, of course. Right. I actually have found that the track work, something that I'm not used to, it's not baked into my daily routine, has been a little bit tougher on the body than the long distance stuff. You're just recruiting muscles in a different way, much more force. So we've done quite a few track workouts which has required. I've got some physical therapy done by a local company that just opened up the store here. Myo their clinic here. Sorry, Myo. So RMT physical therapy work, chiropractic work. Fortunate to go there a couple times. And then I've been. Ice baths and saunas have helped with my recovery. There's a organization, a company here called Othership really caters to that. So I've been enjoying some ice baths to bring that.

[Michael Chernow]

Do you think that that makes a big difference, the cold and hot?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I think that you can use it in different realms. Optimization, adaptation, two different things. But the cold definitely brings down the inflammation for sure. Right. And I think the one element that I underestimated and we haven't talked about is what the mental and emotional pull has been to get through this. So physically is one thing. And I think my body has been primed because of all the consistency over the years, the habits I've created and baked into my daily life. I move my body every day, every day. Sometimes people ask me, so you're gonna work out every single day of the week? Well, yeah. Do you put on your socks every day? Do you put on your shoes? Do you put on your underwear? Like, do you eat every day? I move my body every single day. So the physical demand is one thing, but I underestimated the mental and emotional pull that it's taken on me over the last 25 days. And so I think that even enjoying a guided session at Othership with guides, talking about gratitude, going a bit inward, you know, sitting with my thoughts, you know, checking out, not on my phone for 75 minutes, has allowed me to Reframe and kind of re. Energize, regroup, if you will, throughout the whole journey.

[Michael Chernow]

I want to touch on cold plunge for a bit because I had. I mean, I have a plunge at home from that company, the Plunge, which I love. And for probably three years, I was plunging every single morning, super early in the morning, plunging no matter what the temperature was. I was going into the garage after meditating and sauna, and I would go sit in the Plunge for three to five minutes. And I was doing it then because obviously, you know, there's. There's a lot of science. The science is. Is kind of, you know, it's. It's not concrete in either direction. Right. What it does necessarily, I think there's a lot of moving pieces. But the one thing that I will say the Plunge does for me and I. And yesterday I was having a really hard day, and I think now when I'm having a really hard day, I have risen the self awareness knob, turned the self awareness knob enough over the last couple of years to stop trying to question what it is that's bothering me, even though it's not a bad idea to try to reflect a little bit. But trying to, like, understanding what it is that's bothering me isn't necessarily going to fix my problem. Yesterday I was having a really tough day, and I kind of knew what.

[Matty Kristofferson]

It was about physically or emotionally.

[Michael Chernow]

Or emotionally and kind of physically.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Right.

[Michael Chernow]

But I was just not in my best self, and I went for a run and I got back and I just sat in my cold plunge, and I sat in the Plunge for like six or seven minutes. And there's this moment in time in the plunge where you kind of got to get through the first minute and a half where, you know, you're. If you're like me. And unfortunately, I have Raynaud's, like, meaning my hands and my feet get very, very cold, turn white and then blue, and it's painful, but I get through that first 90 seconds, and then I could almost sit in there for ever. Right. But I know that that doesn't make sense, but I was sitting in the Plunge, and mentally, what the cold plunge does for me is, in my opinion, far more powerful and impactful than what it does for me scientifically, biologically, or physically. The cold plunge is really this tool that I am. I love and hate at the same time, but it is really like an antidepressant. It's bizarre how it works that way. I'm sure that there's a lot of science around it, and I Know that there is, but I'm really excited because I'm also, I'm getting the very brand new cold plunge from that company, the Plunge. And so I'm really excited about that. But I, you know, I think that there is an enormous amount of benefit to shocking the body. To shocking the body. And I think that could also be what running does for people. Right? Like, you go for a long run, it's really, really hard. You push through it, you get through it. The endorphins are sort of running. There's something almost addicting right to it. And so I love that you were doing that throughout the process too.

[Matty Kristofferson]

This morning I did it like before this. So I woke up this morning and I was feeling beyond just exhausted. I was mentally drained. And so to your point, I was just having this rough morning. It was a late night, we did track work, man, we can talk about this later or another time, but the, the club that we met with last night was so inspiring. It filled my bucket, went to bed on a high, and I woke up this morning just defeated. And I was like, how is this even possible? And to your point, like, you can sit there and try to unpack it as much as you want, but it's not going to get you anywhere. And so I actually went and booked a session and enjoyed a cold plunge this morning. And I think in the same context, it was like, how can. This will shift things for me, right? This will shift things mentally for me. You know, embarking on something hard, whether it's doing a cold plunge for three or four minutes or doing that extra rep when you don't want to do it, it grows that, you know, that part of your brain, that resilience, that tenacity to be able to do those kind of hard things when you don't want to do it. And it suddenly shifted everything. And if I could start my morning with doing something hard, you know, whether that's a three minute or four minute cold plunge, now I'm set up for success for the rest of the day. And I felt so much better and it shifted my state, you know, mentally and physiologically probably like you said. And yeah, I'm here now. So I intentionally did that this morning to kind of regroup. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

How much has sleep played a role in this 25 day sprint?

[Matty Kristofferson]

Sleep has been tough. You know, I'm back to the whole creatures of habit thing. I am religious about my sleep. I go to bed at 8:30. I know this is probably why I am still single right now. You can't See me out of the house past 8 o'. Clock. I go to bed at 8:30 because I always wake up at 3:45 and 4 in the morning. And I know my sleep cycles. I know that, you know, I need to get my restorative sleep. I'm not going to be able to capture that if I don't go to bed at that time. On this journey, it's been disrupted immensely. No fault of anything other than the fact that we're doing run clubs at seven o', clock, starting at seven o' clock at night, right. Which is, you know, the odd club. We've started at 9 o' clock at night. So sleep has been, you know, disturbed. That aside, I feel like we've done a pretty good job with our routine and it's just a sacrifice that I'm willing to make on this journey.

[Michael Chernow]

Sleep has been something that I have cherished and I will say, and I just wrote a note to the creatures of a community about grace and giving myself grace and knowing, you know, there's going to be seasons in life where you can totally get away with six and a half, seven hours of sleep and bust your ass, go hard, burn the candles on both ends mentally and physically and like six and a half hours of sleep is okay. And then there's gonna be other, other seasons in life where you're burning the candle on both ends or maybe not like you're just living. And six and a half hours of sleep is just not gonna cut it. And I'm just coming through a period of that where, you know, I'm very religious too, right, about my sleep. I go to bed, I'm in bed by 9, I'm typically up by 5:15 and I get my day going. And that's how it's been for me for a long time. Over the last eight to 12 months, I've been allowing myself to go to bed a little later. My wife wanted to stay up a little longer. It became a habit. Now that we're staying up until 10:15, going to bed a little later, and instead of waking up at 5:15 like I'm traditionally used to doing, I have sacrificed that early morning time to sleep until 6, 6:30. And am I like a better human being when I'm up at 5:15 and doing all those things in the morning? I hate to say it, but yes, I just am like I have now, I now know, but that doesn't mean that it's not okay for me to take a little grace and be okay with like, hey, you know, What? And I don't mean a better human being in terms of who I am spiritually or like, who my soul is, but I just mean, like, performing wise. Like, am I performing at my best when I'm not doing my hardcore morning routine? Definitely not performing as well as I do when I'm doing that and going to bed at 9, 9:30, waking up at 5, 5:30, and then spending an hour in the morning, red light, sauna, cold, you know, all the things.

[Matty Kristofferson]

So.

[Michael Chernow]

In your normal life, when you're not doing a crazy run club tour. Yeah. Are you like, do you have a wind down routine?

[Matty Kristofferson]

I do. I'm. I. I love baths. I'm a bath guy. Wow. Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Okay.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Yeah. I joke around that I'm like the bathlete. I'm like, you're a bathlete? Yeah.

[Michael Chernow]

Wow.

[Matty Kristofferson]

I. I immensely love baths before bed. That's one thing. Epsom salts, because I train so much, because I have adopted running as part of my routine. The Epsom salt thing really helps, I find. So I do enjoy that. And then other than that, I just. Yeah, just no specific wind down. You know, magnesium L threonate is something that I take before bed. Yeah, I think, I think really fundamentally that's it. I tend to get my reading done in the morning, so in the evening, it's just where I just kind of, you know, slow roll it, do the bath, a little bit of supplements and then. And then call it a night.

[Michael Chernow]

Dude, I love this conversation. And I. I can't wait to see what you guys ultimately put together for this journey that you've been on. I know that Austin's sitting across the room here. We all participated in the men's retreat in June on my property, which I thought was, you know, I was speaking to JJ yesterday on my drive down to the city. JJ's a buddy. And then also another participant of the men's retreat that we did. And, man, like, I wish I could live my life like that, you know, with my wife and kids, of course, but that was such an awesome experience for me.

[Matty Kristofferson]

It's incredible. It's incredible, dude. That men's retreat was, you know, and I don't say this lightly. It's. It's life changing when you have the opportunity to do a retreat like that with a container of trust and confidentiality and safety with men that can open up and share vulnerably and feel like they have a safe place to land. Yeah, there's. There's very few spaces like the one that you created out there. And I think that the world needs it, men need it, women need men to do it. Right. And yeah, it was, it was such a good experience.

[Michael Chernow]

So you haven't found your, your, your new girlfriend on the, on the road?

[Matty Kristofferson]

No, no new girlfriend. I don't. You know, we've been so focused on the, on the running. I haven't had much time for anything else really. But yeah, one of these days. I've always, I always said, I shared this last night, actually I reflected with this club that we had last night. They were so inquisitive, so engaged. Out of all the clubs that we've done, 40 clubs now run clubs. There's people always ask me which one, my favorite one, name the favorite and of course I give them the political answer. No favorites. Right. I mentioned some memorable ones that we experienced, but last night by far was the most engaged crew that we've run with.

[Michael Chernow]

What club was it?

[Matty Kristofferson]

We ran with Bronx Burners. And they gave me the opportunity to. Normally it's about a one to two minute, kind of explain what we're doing, explain who I am at the start. It must have been a 10 minute talk at the start and people raising their hands, asking questions how I managed to get through my run last year. What did I learn from it? What has running taught me? What other skills has that brought into other areas of my life? It was so many profound and meaningful questions. And last night one of the questions was anchored around self worth. And we were, I was Talking to the 17 year old, he was the youngest guy training with us. Anyways, there were some other kids there, but he was training with us and he was asking me a lot of questions when we were running around the track. And I looked at him and I looked at his dad who was also training, and the kid's name is Griffin, actually. And I said, every single one of these people, every single one of these people in this crew, every single one of these people at this track, every single person in the stands there. Everyone deserves to be loved. And that's just a fact. And I, I shared with him that like, you know, if that wasn't, if my wife couldn't provide that to me anymore, I have a lot of respect and honor for her, but everyone deserves to be loved. And you know, there's a lot of fish in the sea, so it'll come one day when everything's in alignment. Matty, you're the man.

[Michael Chernow]

You just are. I love our friendship. I've loved getting to know you. When I said that you're one of the most genuine Guys like you just show. Like you said, you show up. You're a guy that shows up, and you do. You show up and you're positive. You exude optimism. You exude energy. Positive energy. And I know we'll be friends to the very last day, man. I believe that in my core, and I'm so grateful to be able to share you with the audience at Creatures of Habit that listen to this podcast.

[Matty Kristofferson]

I so appreciate you, dude, like, immensely, our friendship. You know, you are an incredible human. And I remember the very first time that you landed on my radar was on Rich Roll's podcast. And then we just so happens, I listened to the episode. I'm like, this guy's me, same age. I'm like, I gotta. I gotta. I gotta get a hold of this guy. And turns out a mutual friend connected us and we connected in Austin just by. By fluke. Austin, Texas. And, yeah, it's been. It's been amazing since. And I'm just so happy that our paths cross. And, yeah, we get to share this thing called life together, guys.

[Michael Chernow]

I am confident that that was something that warmed your soul. If you are not a runner, maybe this podcast episode tickled your tummy a little bit, make you want to step into a pair of running shoes and give it a go. I could only tell you from my experience that running is a soul exploration. It is a freeing experience. It also provides a high unlike anything else, really. It's super interesting that, you know, after a good run, you just feel good. And Matty is harnessing that. Matty is harnessing that in the realest way. He's really. He's, you know, introduced his passion for connecting with human beings, because I think that that is something that Matty and I share together. This real passion. I know my passion is ultimately just, you know, getting to know people and connecting with people and creating environments and experiences for people to feel good in. And I know that, Maddie, that with me. So, long story short, if you're a runner, you're awesome. If you're not a runner, you're awesome. But you might want to give running a shot because it is something that you can do at your own pace. It is an incredible way of moving your body. It is incredible for cardiovascular health, of course, and it brings people together. It brings people together, and when people are together, good things happen. So it would mean the world to me if you shared this podcast. It would mean the world if you posted this on social media and followed Matty Addie Christofferson on his social media channels. He's got some really cool stuff that he is about to bring into the world that is a little under wraps, but I'm sure once this podcast episode launches, it may be a better time to talk about that. I appreciate you all. I love you. I can't thank you enough for tuning into the episode and subscribing. Giving us a five star rating and review would be super, super appreciated. And yeah, you guys keep crushing it and I'll keep grinding oats for you. Until the next one, y'. All.

[Matty Kristofferson]

Peace.