Recovery Beyond 12 Steps with Marcus Antebi | Kreatures of Habit

Summary

Kreatures Of Habit Podcast

Episode Title: Recovery Beyond 12 Steps with Marcus Antebi
Host: Michael Chernow
Guest: Marcus Antebi (Entrepreneur, Founder of Juice Press and Good Sugar)
Date: April 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around addiction recovery, looking beyond the classic "12 Steps," and delving deeply into personal accountability, self-mastery, and the science and philosophy behind creating sustainable change. Michael Chernow welcomes his mentor and early sobriety supporter, Marcus Antebi, for an open, frank, and often philosophical conversation about what it truly takes to recover—not just from addiction, but from lifelong anxieties and traumas. The duo explores powerful daily habits, the true utility of writing and meditation, the limitations of willpower alone, and how to meaningfully contribute to society through service.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Marcus Antebi’s Role in Michael’s Recovery

[01:43–07:27]

• The Origin Story: Michael recounts the day he got sober in 2004, calling his friend Karen, who sent Marcus to help. Marcus “just listened for hours” before offering, "I'm going to be able to help you."
• Mentorship and Reciprocity: Marcus downplays his savior role:
  • "It's no big deal. You do it too, right? Now you help a lot of people the same way...We can't become self-worshiping over it." (06:14)
  • He emphasizes the cycle of giving back in recovery and not seeking grandeur: "If I saved your life, let's go empty your wallets, pay me some money. But I think that you did it on your own. I was just a catalyst passing on a message." (06:23)
• Cause and Effect, Not Blame: An early bit of advice to Michael about “blaming your parents” is softened in retrospect, focusing instead on understanding cause and effect, not accusation:
  • “It's the wrong word. It's just looking at cause and effect...If I'm suffering and I want to fix it...I have to understand how I got there.” (08:15–09:02)

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Trauma, Shame, and the Power of Sharing

[10:00–12:10]

• Male Vulnerability & Sexual Abuse: Michael opens up about recent public discussions of his own sexual abuse and the associated shame men often carry.
• Validation and Healing: Marcus notes Michael’s growth, emphasizing the importance of both sharing and moving beyond self-focused gratitude. He urges Michael (and listeners) to "resolve your inner conflict and pass on good things to future generations...don’t get caught up in self-worship...Always maintain humility when you teach." (12:30)

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Rethinking Recovery & Tools for Growth

[14:26–19:44]

• Modernizing Recovery: Michael notes the 12-step texts are nearly 100 years old and invites Marcus to discuss his own writings and updates for modern life.
• The Power of Writing:
  • The fourth step—“a searching and fearless moral inventory”—is Marcus’s foundation for regular writing: “We have just billions of thoughts...What are the ones that really crystallize? They're the ones that we give gravity to...Writing crystallizes the thoughts that need to be crystallized.” (16:00–16:57)
  • He sees writing, physical exercise, and cosmic curiosity as balancing mechanisms to keep him present and reduce old obsessions.

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Who Can Recover? The Limits of Willpower

[19:44–22:55]

• Marcus dismisses the idea that “anyone” can always recover:
  • “There’s many mental illnesses and debilitation that make it beyond the capacity of that mind to improve...some people cannot change." (20:44)
  • Yet, "The vast majority of people in the world have the capacity to change. So we should focus on that." (21:35)

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Daily Practices: The “Circle of Things”

[22:55–24:04]

• Multiple Pillars: Marcus stresses it’s always a “circle of things”—keeping intellect sharp, pursuing hobbies, exercising every day, meditating in various forms, and engaging in self-inquiry: “I meditate in one form or another because now it works on me. Didn’t work on me for 25 years...now it’s the simplest.” (23:15)
• Modern Meditation: Marcus unpacks the root of meditation as self-regulation of the nervous system—"a medicine invented in the last few thousand years...to regulate the nervous system." (25:51)
  • Key practice: “Just take this moment right now and be present in it. Take a deep breath, slowly...declare in your mind that you’re observing your thought.” (29:52)

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Understanding and Managing Anxiety

[32:37–42:37]

• Breath as First Step: Marcus details how improper breathing heightens anxiety: "Holding your breath makes you feel anxious because your heart rate increases and signals your brain that there’s a problem..." (35:06)
• Practical Tactics:
  • Writing: “Start fucking writing. Even if you get an index card and write one word on it...instructing and writing and learning about yourself.” (39:29)
  • Exercise: “If you are physically capable...the body is meant to move. It’s impossible to have a relaxed chemistry, a relaxed nervous system, in that state [of inactivity].” (42:05)
  • Service: Reinforce communal bonds and “contribute something positive to our society.” (44:12)
• AA’s “HALT” Acronym: Used as a first step, but Marcus notes “there’s about 11,000 triggers” for adults, not just Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. (43:29)

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Structure & Discipline: Early Recovery vs. Later

[46:50–47:42]

• Early Recovery: Highly structured plans help stabilize—but over time, flexibility increases: “You were a wet drunk; it’s different today...Now, for you, it’s all about the discipline of showing up to meditation.” (47:04)
• Discipline Is Relative:
  • “Structure and discipline to a newcomer is completely different to me and you...we’re creatures of habit, we repeat what we do.” (47:42)

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Case Study: Health Anxiety and Childhood Trauma

[50:17–54:08]

• Michael’s Core Anxiety: Fear of getting sick and leaving his family—a clear tie to childhood trauma witnessing his diabetic father’s seizures.
• Therapeutic Process:
  • Marcus encourages Michael to "acknowledge that it’s completely normal...Don’t feel ashamed...This one is not even a hard one. This one comes out of the textbook. So you just have PTSD and it doesn't go away so easily." (54:08)
  • Practical interventions include mindful interruption of thoughts (“I am okay. I am safe. I am healthy...I will not manifest injury, disease, death, failure, catastrophe, repeat.”) and returning to the breath and movement. (55:33)

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Systems for Managing Anxiety: The Core Habits

[58:12–62:57]

• Breath:
  • “The first thing is you gotta control and regulate your nervous system. That’s breathing. Breath, it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. Breathe more, try more. Find different kinds of breath. There are no breath masters.” (58:40)
• Writing:
  • When feeling overwhelmed, "sit down and write about how you’re feeling in the moment.” (61:44)
• Movement, Reading, and Meditation:
  • As long as breath anchors activity, these each serve as “an opportunity to control and regulate your nervous system.” (62:17)
• Meditation:
  • “Meditation increases what you were doing in the breath...not to live in as an existence, you'll be eaten by a dinosaur if you don't get up and do something.” (62:21)
• Service:
  • Small communal acts foster connection and fight self-isolation.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Humility and Service:
  "Don't charge people money to teach them what was given freely to you. If you do that, you honor what you're saying that you appreciated me. It's not mine either." - Marcus (12:30)

• On the Mind as a Machine:
  "If we compare it to a car...that same question would be like, so you believe that any engine right now I can just turn on the key and it's going to start. It's a machine, it has to be in condition." - Marcus (20:00)

• On Meditation:
  "Just take this moment right now and just be present in it. Take a deep breath, slowly, don't make anything different, and declare in your mind that you're observing your thought...That's meditation." - Marcus (29:52)

• On Anxiety:
  "Every time I feel uncomfortable, I'm just experiencing a form of anxiety. If you don't like that word, I'm sorry, audience, it's a very precise word. It's not fear. It is a vibration...It is a specific chemistry." - Marcus (41:22)

• On Triggers and Adult Anxiety:
  "HALT: hungry, angry, lonely, tired. The four triggers, but there's about 11,000 of them. I wrote about 200 of them down." - Marcus (43:29)

• On Letting Go of Past Trauma:
  "You haven't dived deep enough into the actual emotion, the one that will make you feel exactly like you felt when you were 5 years old. Like you're sitting with it right now..." - Marcus (54:08)

• On Universal Human Quirkiness:
  "We're spinning on a rock at 17,000 miles per hour, corkscrewing around the Milky Way in an endless, vast cosmos. We're all headed towards death. How can we not be a little wacky?" - Marcus (63:17)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:43] Michael describes Marcus’s pivotal role in his sobriety
• [06:14] Marcus on not attaching to heroism or self-worship in recovery
• [10:00] Michael discusses sharing his sexual abuse story, shame, and seeking approval
• [14:26] Discussion of the 12-step book’s age and limitations
• [16:00] Marcus on writing and the power of the fourth step
• [19:44] Can anyone recover? The limits of willpower, mental health as a machine
• [23:00] Daily "circle of things": mind, hobbies, exercise, meditation
• [25:51] Meditation as nervous system medicine and modern interpretations
• [35:06] Breathwork’s direct impact on anxiety physiology
• [39:29] Tactical: Start with writing, exercise, deliberate breath
• [43:29] Triggers for anxiety and the simplistic limits of "HALT"
• [47:42] Structure and discipline: early vs. later in recovery
• [50:17] Case study: Michael’s health anxiety and root traumas
• [54:08] The enduring work of healing trauma: noticing, sitting with, writing, movement
• [58:40] Breath as the universal starting point for anxiety and emotional regulation
• [62:21] Meditation as extension of breath and presence
• [63:17] Marcus on embracing a little bit of craziness in everyone

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Actionable Takeaways & Closing System

• First, Start with Breath: Return to conscious breathing throughout the day; this regulates nervous system activity.
• Second, Write: Use writing as a tool to crystallize thoughts, explore feelings, and gain self-mastery.
• Third, Move: Exercise any way you can, as the body and mind are a feedback loop.
• Fourth, Serve: Start with those around you; service is an instinct and builds community.
• Fifth, Meditate: Use meditation to train focus, welcome presence, and decrease mental reactivity, not to seek “enlightenment” but a practical calm.

Memorable wisdom:
"Practice, practice, practice...We can end [addiction and struggle] if we just stay on it every day and practice." - Marcus (46:32)

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Final Notes

With a raw, philosophical tone and humor, Marcus Antebi and Michael Chernow model the humility, vulnerability, and pragmatic discipline needed for real recovery. Whether you're new to the journey or deep into your own growth, this conversation offers not just tactics, but the mindset required to keep evolving—one breath at a time.

Transcript

[A]

You believe that there is a way to recognize when you're sick with addiction and an opportunity to fix it for anyone?

[B]

No. You know, the mind is a delicate machine. If we compare it to a car, that same question would be like, so you believe that any engine right now I can just turn on the key and it's going to start. It's a machine, it has to be in condition. So there's many mental illnesses and debilitation that make it beyond the capacity of that mind to improve or to have any kind of self help mechanism. And it's us to just maintain our own mind and try to help other people maintain theirs.

[A]

You don't believe that anybody can change the, the direction they're walking if it's in the direction of addiction?

[B]

It's not, it's not a question of belief. It's, it's, it's evidence that I have in front of me. I mean, I know a lot of people that are dead that couldn't make change and they died. So I have evidence that some people cannot change. If life is the goal that we're talking about, if that's the goal, there's some people who just don't make it. It could be me, it could be you, doesn't matter. The vast majority of people in the world have the capacity to change. So we should just focus on that. It's like evolution, right? Most of the animals out there aren't going to make it tonight in the ocean. So the idea is which ones pass through. That's the ones we concentrate on. An entrepreneur straight out of New York City, Michael Chernow. What's cracking?

[A]

What's up guys? Welcome back to the Creatures. Have a podcast. So I haven't been doing intros for a while now. I just kind of roll right into it as I imagine if you listen to this podcast, you will have been witness to. However, I have a guest on the podcast today that you all have heard me talk about a lot, especially if you heard, if you've heard me on other podcasts as a guest on other podcasts. And I actually can confidently say that I owe my life to the guy I'm sitting across to. Because there was not many people when I was in the position that I was in about 21 and a half years ago that I knew or that were willing to give me a chance. Listen to my story. And this and this ties to the day I got sober. And so the day I got sober, August 2, 2004, I called the only person who I really knew that was Sober that I trusted, named Karen, and I called Karen and I. I used to work with Karen at a nightclub when I was like 16, 17 and 18. Actually probably 16 to 20. I worked there. And Karen also worked there. And she was like, kind of like an older sister to me. She would take me in when I was down and out in her East Village apartment. She would always just say, you know, come on over. And I would crash out there and she would really, really just sort of take me in. And I called her when I was ready. I had no idea what she was going to say or what she was going to do because she had been sober. And then she said, where are you? And I said, I'm at home. And she said, don't move. I'm gonna call my boyfriend to come and meet with you. And her boyfriend was the guy sitting across the table from me, this guy Marcus. And I had no idea what was, you know, ahead of me on the path. I really didn't. I was, I. I had overdosed two weeks prior to that. I basically wanted to die. And I just didn't have anybody to sort of lean on because all the people that I associated with were either doing the same thing that I was doing prior to that day, which was getting high and, you know, being debaucherous or dead, because a lot of the friends died. Marcus came and he just literally told me he didn't. You know, this guy walked in the room and he looks, he looks basically exactly the same as he looks right now, which you'll see in a second. But this shaved head, tough dude covered in tattoos walked in and just listened to me for hours. I don't know, two, three hours, maybe longer. And, and didn't really say much until the very end. And he's like, I'm going to be able to help you. And, and I'll stop there and introduce Marcus. So across from me is a guy named Marcus Antebbie and he is an entrepreneur. He is the founder of the Juice Press. He built that business to a massive company. He is currently the founder and CEO of Good Sugar, which is another really incredible cool plant based vegan store on the Upper east side of New York City. They make products as well. And he's, he's a father of three, three girls and a couple of step kids. And he has been a mentor of mine for 21 and a half years. And I'm really excited to get into it with you all. Marcus, welcome.

[B]

Thank you. That was great. I especially appreciated the fact that you use the word debaucherous. Because it's such a 18th century word I use it often times. But it's a great word to describe your behavior.

[A]

Well, you know, it's funny because for all the years that I've known you, you've never been able to actually embrace like you, you, you kind of like. And I don't know if it's because it's out of humility or it's because it is. You've helped so many guys over the years, but you, you actually did come in and save my life. I believe that in my core. Like the way I live my life today was, was, was seated by you.

[B]

It's no big deal. I mean you do it too, right? Now I know you help a lot of people the same way, so. But when you say that somebody, somebody did the same thing to me. When I was 15 years old they came in and it was you know, 1931 and I just went down and no, I got sober in 85 and there was a guy, his name was Alex Cosin. He's probably dead by now. I, I was 15, he was like 27, he was 6 8. Chain smoker of non filtered cigarettes. He'd pick me up every day and take me to AA meetings and he would just giggle at my jokes and we were like pen and teller. Like I was five' eight, he was six' eight and we just went to meetings together and he was, he didn't say anything intelligent but he was someone who kept the glue together. So we, we, we return it and we just, we can't become self worshiping over it. It's not something I'm going to sit here and go keep telling me more about how great I am and how I saved your life. If I saved your life. Let's go empty your wallets, pay me some money. But I think that you did it on your own. I was just a catalyst passing on a message that I was working on myself.

[A]

You know, something that you did. So I remember we were sitting at actually the bar at Frank.

[B]

Oh, food was great there.

[A]

And you, you came late and you had me like write a bunch of shit and I still have it at home. But you basically. And I don't know how you feel about it now, but then you said you have to take the worry off of your back and it's obvious that this is your parents fault. Like you have to blame your parents basically. Like just. And I don't know if you said

[B]

that because I don't know if I said it exactly like that. I Think you could remember it like that? I probably didn't use the word language like blame. Do you recall that?

[A]

I think you did.

[B]

It's possible. Sorry. Maybe you were, you were a tough case. I might have had to pick some really low brow words in my vocabulary. So if you understood what I meant regardless. I would not, I would just, just to be clear, I would never say it like that today because it would be very off putting to try to explain something as complex as cause and effect by using such, such a hammer. It's actually true. Like we could say that we, you and I are standing here, we, we should blame your car because it got us here. And we can blame the room, you know, we can blame the universe for turning. It's the wrong word. It's just looking at cause and effect. If I'm sitting here and I'm suffering and I want to fix it, I could either use substance or behavior, I could deflect it, whatever, or I could do something to cause a change, right. So I have to understand how I got there, what made me so hyper anxious. So my language today is just different. I mean, I lost, I feel like presence. I got too into something I was saying I lost my, my true chain of thought here. So I'll find my way back right now. But I'm just saying like for me to have a good flow with you, that's honest, you know, I just want to start off by saying we don't need to give each other that much credit. We help each other and you pass it back and that's part of your cause and effect. In the future. If you want to think about why you're doing better as a person, just remember that a big part of that is you give a lot of it back and there's, there's a science to why that works. If you want to talk about that. Yeah, I'm happy to as well too. But I don't know if you want to start with step 12 before it's step one, you know, awareness.

[A]

Well, I think, I mean, I've just, I've reflected a lot over time and really when I, and especially most recently because I have been sharing a lot about my sexual abuse as a kid because I feel like it's the right time for me to.

[B]

Great video that you did.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

What was that again? Soft white underbelly. Unbelievable. I, I, I, it jumped right at me. I looked, you know, my YouTube in the morning to look for some stuff on physics. I'm learning about black holes. I'm really A dummy. And there you were. I saw your face. I go, is that that guy? And then it was you. And I saw that saw and I watched it and I was very impressed by it. I thought, I thought you had developed a lot just by listening to how you tell your story. Thank God.

[A]

Thank you. I, I, but I just felt like it's, it's, you know, I feel like, not felt like, I feel like it's the right time to start talking about that, especially as a man, because most men really try to hold that close to the vest and ultimately carry a lot of shame around with that. So. But I've been reflecting on my story a bunch because I, when I started thinking about my, the sexual abuse in my life, it stemmed from not having love at home, not getting the love. And so I think about the trajectory in the journey, not getting it, the love at home, having to look for love elsewhere and finding men throughout my life that I wanted to impress, that I wanted validation from, that I wanted to get a pat on the back from, because I just didn't get it at the core foundation. Right. And you were probably the first guy that showed up in my life that I had the same exact feelings towards. I wanted to impress you. I looked up to you. I wanted you to pat me on the back. And by the way, you did. And you took me under your wing as I was this kid. But when I think about my life today and when I think about how I live my life today, I mean, I just, I want to thank you man, so much.

[B]

I appreciate it. You know, I think you're, I think we spent too much time on that.

[A]

I know, but I, but you're, you're a crazy human being. You're, you are.

[B]

No, no, no, no, you are, no, you're a crazy. I'm the most normal you ever met in town, man.

[A]

You're a crazy dude. And I just want, I, I keep it together. I asked you to come on the show today because I really do want to thank you and I know that

[B]

you want to hear it. I, I, I, I do want to hear it. I appreciate it. And I'm human. And I'd say is onward and upward, meaning that if you really believe those words, that you really truly believe those words, then you will hear me. And when I tell you of the absolute necessity for you to resolve your inner conflict and pass on good things to future generations and take that very seriously. Also, don't get caught up in self worshiping and your grandiosity because you don't know, neither do I. And we never will. So keep it at a very balanced level. Always maintain humility when you teach. And don't, don't, don't charge people money to teach them what was given freely to you. If you do that, then you honor what you're saying that you appreciated me. It's not mine either. That's why I can't sit here and gloss myself, because I remember where the transmissions came from. So for me to sit here and be like, I did it, I'm smarter than everyone else. It's just. It's an attachment that will make me suffer.

[A]

Interrupting this episode to share with you that Creatures of Habit finally launched our protein bar. It's called the Daily Bar. It's made with 20 grams of plant based protein, 3 grams of creatine. Yes, you heard that right. It also has 3 grams of creatine. It is incredibly tasty and clean as a whistle. All clean ingredients. Take this opportunity. Hop over to creaturesofhabit.com that's creaturesofhabit.com with a K and use code K O H P O D20 at checkout for 20% off your first order back to the pod. You've spent a lot of time over the last probably 10 years writing lots and lots of writing.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

And you have a. You have a different take potentially on the world of recovery and how recovery should be looked at and potentially written. The book that, that, that was written that a lot of people in the 12 steps rely on was written in 1930. What, seven or two, what was it?

[B]

The actual first edition?

[A]

Yeah, I think it's 37.

[B]

Okay. I think that sounds about right. I'm not. I.

[A]

So it's almost 100 years old.

[B]

That date would never stick in my head. I, I would, I would. I thought that, that the main book that I carried around and read cover to cover three times was in the 1950s when you said that it might have been that it goes through editions and I never read the first edition. I don't even know how wacky that would have been.

[A]

But it, but yeah, it was written in the 30s and so you've taken a lot of time to think about that and then add what you believe to be a potential addition or optimization or different way to receive. So can you just walk, walk me through, like what inspired that?

[B]

First of all, the fourth step of 12 step recovery is to make a Searching and for searching and Fearless moral inventory, which in old school language it was an invitation to just write constantly the way that all great masters of the past did to create mastery. It was a form of communication. I, I, my theories, they're just theories. They're not informed. I'm not a science guy, but my theories, I'm not a psychology expert either. My theories is that we, we have just billions of thoughts in our lives, right? And so what, what are the ones that really crystallize? They're the ones that we give a lot of gravity to or have a lot of sen attach them, generally positive or negative sensation. But the other thoughts that are swirling around in our mind, they just create a. Endless amount of chaos and noise that just has to trigger mild to severe forms of anxiety. Because the mind is just always in action. It's just trying to grab a hold of every thought and we lose presence of mind and we change our chemistry in this way and we, we lose the moment of reality that we exist in. Follow me with that.

[A]

I'm with you.

[B]

Okay. This is pretty easy stuff. Okay? It's very, I just feel as though writing crystallizes the thoughts that need to be crystallized. So I don't generally write about negative stuff. I let that pass or I deal with it. I just write about whatever I want. Sometimes I just find myself writing about my ideas of what's going on in the cosmos. You know, last night I was writing about the, the Fermi paradox, which talks about where, where are intelligent life forms in such a massive universe? How come we haven't encountered them? So to me, that's a meditation beyond the shit that I was obsessing on in my teens, in my 20s. And it gives me a sense of connectivity that I don't necessarily feel. And it's the next stage of me creating relaxation by putting the focus on much more cosmic things. So I balance it. You know, I, I spend a lot of time in my body, my emotions, I, I write about my feelings, I talk to my wife, I'll talk to you about my emotions. I spent a lot of time in the physical body. I'm always doing push ups and squats because I want to breathe and remember where I'm inhabiting. Okay? And then thoughts on addiction and recovery just became super easy to me. It's like talking about kindergarten stuff. I don't want to spend too much time on talking about something that's so blatantly obvious that you either see it or you don't. If you don't see it, go out there and smash into a brick wall or die. If you see it, then you come into the room, whatever that room is, and you Say, okay, what the fuck is addiction? And now let's break it down into its simplest forms and let's fix it so that we can move on to what we are really here to do. What is our purpose? And it's up to you to decide yours. As long as it's compassionate and it's non harm, best if it lives in accordance to the natural world. Obvious stuff, but that's what we're talking about now. So that's why I made a big book. Because I wanted something that had everything. There's no, there's nothing. It's my entire philosophy written in a what I believe, a very humble way where I'm not. It's not about me. I'm going to publish these anonymously because I want to show that in my work that I'm not seeking recognition or fame. I don't want the distraction or the attachment. I want to be able to change my mind. I don't want to be shot at from, you know, books, you know, depository while I'm driving in my Cadillac. It's not what the work is about. The work is about self mastery. So I make it about nothing else.

[A]

You believe that there is a way to recognize when you're sick with addiction and an opportunity to fix it for anyone, right?

[B]

No. No. You know, the mind is a delicate machine. If we compare it to a car, that same question would be like, so you believe that any engine right now I can just turn on the key and it's going to start. It's a machine, it has to be in condition. So there's many mental illnesses and debilitation that make it beyond the capacity of that mind to improve or to have any kind of self help mechanism. So we see that all the time. And it's not for us to decide. It's us to just maintain our own mind and try to help other people maintain theirs.

[A]

So you're, you don't believe that anybody can change the, the direction they're walking if it's in the direction of addiction?

[B]

It's not, it's not a question of belief. It's, it's. It's evidence that I have in front of me. I mean, I know a lot of people that are dead that couldn't make change and they died. So I have evidence that some people cannot change. If life is the goal that we're talking about, if that's the goal, there's some people who just don't make it. It could be me, it could be you. Doesn't matter. It's the idea is that it isn't a perfect system. And not everything has a happy ending. There's people who are certifiable narcissists that might not ever recognize that there's any such thing as a character defect. They may never make a single change. There's people that harm people. You think a serial killer that's killed a hundred people and murdered innocent people, you think that that person is going to have a 180 degree turnaround and become a saint? If it's possible. Anything's possible in life. I don't see. I don't see that much. Look, if it's happened once, it doesn't mean it's going to happen twice. The vast majority of people in the world have the capacity to change. So we should just focus on that. It's like evolution, right? Most of the animals out there aren't going to make it tonight in the ocean. It's a fact. They're just going to be eaten or crushed by something. So the idea is which ones pass through. That's the ones we concentrate on. So right now, for the moment in the present moment, us motherfuckers here in the room, we're passing through the unbelievable odds that nature will destroy us by just staying on the planet. So the work that you and I are even talking about is about that. How do we stay on this fucking planet? How do we economize energy, motion, thought and suffering? And we should have got that in our childhood through our community, our tribe, our extended family, and through actual ritual and dance and following ancient tribal knowledge passed on from generation to generation. But instead, in the fragmented world that we live in, in this massive civilization that's now global, really, we lose it. And we have to come back to it, sadly, on our own.

[A]

So how. What do you do to come back to it?

[B]

It you had to choose a few

[A]

things that you want.

[B]

It's, you know what there to me, it's. It's a. It's a circle of things. It's not one thing if it's a circle of things, right? You know, so the first thing is now is since the mind exists and it's the predominant machine, you have to keep your intellect intact. So that means I think about good things, I listen to physics so I can figure out what one plus one equals. Keep my mind sharp, right? I got to think about some. I build a store, I write a book, I have a few hobbies, I exercise every single day, seven days a week. I meditate in one form or another because now it works on me. Didn't work on me for 25 years. I was showing up to it and I didn't understand it. And it was. It's probably one of the most complicated things when you don't understand it, and then it just becomes the simplest.

[A]

Okay, so talk. Show us about that. I'm interested in that.

[B]

Are you hearing me? I am. This guy's a genius.

[A]

I mean, you're, you're, you're definitely floating.

[B]

Any sense? He's already enlightened, so we don't have to ask him any questions.

[A]

But.

[B]

So the first thing is, I had a very insincere with meditation. I got sober when I was 15. What the hell could I know about meditation except Jackie Chan and Claude Van Dam spreading his legs across the tables, doing this. What the ninjas flying out of trees? What the hell do Western people understand about this thing? And then if we get a little smart, we see guys with turbines doing handstands and there's incense and there's music. So that's meditation. Then when we got sober, step 11. I mean, holy shit. It was a program written by alcoholic people who were sober barely 10 years with. I say this in with no disparaging words from what I understand in my research, which leads me very clearly to the path that one of the founding primary members was being treated for depression with experimental drug that wasn't recreational at that time called lsd. And the whole concept of the book was adapted from the earlier Christian orthodox group called the Oxford Group. So look at the early foundation of what 12 step recovery is and try to see now how it might match in your life, in today's life. If that program, if those geniuses, they're all geniuses, every one of them who founded the program, they were enlightened people that they even were able to stop their addiction when there wasn't ancestry behind them to tell them how to do it. They broke the chain right there. Holy shit. Whatever they had to do today, we stand on their shoulders. So now we're a little bit more relaxed. We can say, okay, we understand. Step 11 says, sought through prayer and meditation to improve conscious contact with God or higher power. Well, we can look at that step and say, okay, what were these amateurs trying to say? They had to drop the prayer word there because they wouldn't want 1950s America, where they were trying to launch a 12 step program, to think that they were some kind of Hindu group. 1930s, 30s. I was thinking 50s because that's when it was at its peak. Okay, I'M sorry, I think of 1950s, AA. I don't know, 1930s. Sorry. So the idea is that first of all, a clear definition of meditation is now emerging in society, probably because of social media. There's a lot of people that are out there trying to talk about it, and there's a lot more ears to hear it. So the way I describe meditation is that if you and I were born into a peaceful tribal life that had fresh air, raw, wild, powerful nature, we lived in tribal life, we spent our time in non harm, celebrating creation, cooperating with each other, following the rhythms of nature. We would be in a waking meditation all the time. Every. Every movement, every plan, every activity would be sort of like a flow. Even an argument there would be a flow to it. Hard to explain. What you can say is over generations, that for survival, the way that humans pack themselves into massive cities and the way skyward facing gods took over and kingdoms and politics and commerce, you could say, is that what was lost is an individual's ability to feel connected and relaxed. And that projects itself into how we raise our children. And then we have many, many, many centuries where there were just horrible human beings in charge that just created widespread destruction and murder and terror for many generations that you and I are now born into. Cause and effect of the brutality and the horror of humanity in its own way, even with the good things that are out there, medicine, science, surgery, philosophy, we, we, you and I, are born without any control, into an anxiety world. You know that already by your confessions of what your child was like, that your parents really. What you're describing are people who were dysregulated. Their nervous system was dysregulated, and they did not have awareness to that, nor did they have a process to regulate their nervous system. So meditation really is a medicine invented in the last few thousand years of history that people practice to try to regulate the nervous system. And there's many approaches to it. It's not just one approach. The simplest approach is right now. I get very anxious when I talk about this stuff on tv, because if I'm getting it wrong, I think some of these great meditators will come after me. Just think about how simple meditation can be. Just take this moment right now and just be present in it. Take a deep breath, slowly, don't make anything different, and declare in your mind that you're observing your thought. There'll be thoughts that pop up in your head right now, uncontrollably. They might not even pertain to what I'm saying. Then there'll be moments where you can focus. You have total agency, but you're breathing. Okay, that's meditation. You'll break it. You'll get distracted by a noise or an itch in your balls. You got to end the podcast. 10,000 things will emerge. As long as you have the ability to bring yourself back to that present moment and that breath, you're gaining control over where the mechanistic mind goes. The mind. That's all it's about, the mind as a machine. Neurons firing, chemistry, reactivity, thought, feeling, sensation. Boom, all the time. That's what the mind was designed to do. You don't ever want it to stop. It doesn't stop when you're sleeping. You're awake, you're conscious. If you can observe that now, it's years of practice. What do you do with that? It's not just a puzzle that you're trying to solve. You're trying to gain control over your reactivity and change what your focus rests on throughout the day. It's not something that comes easy to young people. Our bodies are strong and pulling us in the opposite direction. We have ambition, we have our habits, and we have our conditioning. So meditation is the practice of just coming back right now to the moment, to the breath. Breathe. Don't complicate it. There's no philosophy, there is no teaching. There's nothing to learn. It's just right now. Oh, but wait. What about that question? What about that goal? Right? And then we get sucked back in. So the mastery of meditation begins when we can control the fluctuation between those two states of getting pulled into the thought and identifying with it and becoming the thought and losing ourselves in our amygdala brain, if you want to get technical, or coming back to the breath and coming back to the intelligent, compassionate, relaxed brain that's present. They didn't say that in the big book. So that's what I'm here to do. And I don't know why nature might have picked me. Because I'm a dummy. You know that I'm a brute, right? You know how I like to. How I used to punch in the ring. I think it happened getting punched too much, actually, that I just got punched Sense full and asked me another question about that, because otherwise I'm just gonna rattle. Well, so did you understand any of that?

[A]

I mean, I did my best. I mean, I. I definitely. I mean, I think you broke down the.

[B]

The.

[A]

The general in a. In a very floral way, like the general philosophy around meditation. Right? It's about doing your Absolute, very best to be able to control where you focus your mind. And ideally you're able to control being right here, right now. Because ultimately everything happens right here.

[B]

And you know what? Everybody's saying it. That's why you can repeat it. And that's, that's part of the positive collective consciousness that you're receiving. If it was just me saying this stuff now, you'd have to listen to it 300 times and you'd have to take out whatever mistakes or egoism that I bring to it, just to filter it out to get to the nectar, the nectar of what I'm saying. It's been repeated throughout history by people who practice it and achieved it. And it's relatively simple. And you've lived enough life now where you have no doubt in your mind what suffering is, is that correct? And you have no doubt in your mind that everything in the universe has an equal and opposite potential effect. So if there's great suffering, there can be great what joy, right? So where do those two things occur? They occur in the mind. So you have to sit with the mind and watch the mind to improve it. You have to be willing to examine the things that you do that are not humble, that are born from low self esteem, from low self image, from habit and pattern. We have to see it, to become willing to let go of it and say it's not necessary or it's, it's wasting energy, it's creating more struggling and suffering. So let's, let, let's, let's to, to demonstrate some of this stuff and to make it a little bit more accessible. Why don't we focus in on some of the things that are in your mind that give you trouble. And let's talk a little bit about anxiety, because when people start to understand anxiety, then they really understand what this thing meditation is. The meditation is the work to counteract the effect of anxiety. It's that, it's that very specific thing. Like I feel anxiety all throughout the day. Some of it's mild, some of it's intense. I have certain anxieties that have been walking with me for decades. So if I know that I have that present, then what specifically am I doing in my daily routine to address that? And the, and the dumbest of all things is to breathe, because you're already doing that anyway. So all you have to do is say, okay, I'm conscious of my breath. Because holding your breath does what?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Holding your breath makes you feel anxious because your heart rate increases and it signals Your brain that there's a problem. So the brain shifts modalities. You go into a different nervous system. It's that simple. It's not even mystical. It's that stupid. In our childhoods, we were doing that all the time. We were going from the relaxed state of a child into anxiety states because what. What garbage we were presented. And that became the pattern we toned. So, yeah, so let me nervous system to do that.

[A]

So if I pause you there for a second, this is a. A pretty interesting thing to bring to light. What you're saying is. And I. It's not like I haven't heard this before, but we don't know how to breathe, Right? Like that's something that I've heard about. Not a bunch, but enough where it's like we're just not breathing properly. And so what you're saying is if you break it down to the actual chemical chemistry of it, when you hold your breath, it triggers a fight or flight. Sort of converts from rest and digest to fight or flight.

[B]

Hallelujah.

[A]

The. The central nervous system goes into overdrive, and that is what is creating.

[B]

If a neuroscientist were listening to us, they'd be laughing at us because were scientifically illiterate, which is okay because they couldn't talk about retail either. So we're taught the way that you just described it is enough because you got it mostly right. There's a nervous system going on in there. There's a brain, there's a spine. Remember that. And there's an entire chemistry happening in there. There's neurotransmitters. It's a phenomenon that's happening. It's not just your mind thinking that. It's just the mind happening in vapor. It's happening inside your chemistry. And that is the easiest place to look because the mind isn't really something that you can grab a hold of.

[A]

So are you saying people that are anxious, that struggle with a lot of anxiety, are just holding their breath too much?

[B]

No, I did not say that. Thank you. But that's a very good question. I did not say that. That would be an oversimplification of it. What I said is that the easiest way for you to come back is through the breath. You with your particular mentality, with your health status, with your knowledge. Other people might need other steps, and it's not just one thing. The breath alone will not save you. Okay. Does it. It's just an important element. I could make a blanket statement and say if I took the most. This is a crazy thing to say on live television. If I took the most enlightened monk and I smothered him with a pillow. After about five seconds of their acceptance, they would fight and kick. They wouldn't just surrender because a panic reflex would kick in. That's part of the nervous system that we developed. Okay, when you hold your breath, you're building up CO2. Your chemistry is alerting you that you're going to die. In about a minute, you're out of here. So it's not that you don't know how to breathe. You know how to breathe for a person in fight or flight and panic as a child. A frightened creature does not breathe. A frightened child curls up and protects and by default restricts breathing. We go into panic breath in our childhood, but that doesn't alleviate the tension. Panic breath could be completely erratic. It's all observable science. There's nothing here that I'm saying that's groundbreaking or intelligent.

[A]

So let's just give the people listening a couple of things that they can do to potentially try. Because on the podcast, I really do love to talk about people's habits, rituals, and routines. That's definitely something that we cover. We've, we've, we've moved, like, we've definitely shifted more into storytelling and having experts on the show. But I also love to give the audience an opportunity to take something home and try it. So if you had to pick a couple of things based on what we're talking about here, whether it's meditation, breath work, or just being more conscious of the breath, can you give some tactical advice on how to do that?

[B]

The first thing, in my belief is that a person has to be willing. If they're listening to this, they're willing. They got to be willing to say, okay, I want to fix something. They got to get past the youthful, ignorant shame attached to it. Or this is corny. Or it's woo. Or analyzing my tattoos or judging me, stop sabotaging access to your own happiness, because this is the path. The path is to, first of all, start fucking writing. Even if you get an index card and you write one word on it, you have to start instructing and writing and learning about yourself. There's a hundred ways to do it. You could talk into your phone. You can etch it into your skin. I don't care. Just write. It gets better with time. Read, study.

[A]

So, like, can you just. Okay, so, right. So is there a good time of day that you like?

[B]

Does it matter?

[A]

Doesn't matter.

[B]

Why do it? First thing in the morning so you don't forget. Do it at night, do it in the afternoon. Talking to your phone. See, if I gave you a prescription like that, then I sound like a guru who's telling you the way to do it. It's just write. If you came to me as a friend and said I'm a dummy, I don't know what to write, I'd say write about your childhood for five years. Write about it for a year. Write about what you felt like when you couldn't find parking. Write about your 10 fights with your wife. Write about fatherhood, write about your dad. Write and make it become something that in the real time moment, you feel better when you're doing. Because I'm breathing right now and I'm writing and it's 10:30 at night and my wife went to bed and I'm thinking about gratitude and I started writing about alien life forms and then started moving into breath and then wrote about my sexual predation. That happened to me at age 15. I had a 32 year old girlfriend with insanity when I lived in California for 10 months. That I look back now and I say I was victimized, I was a minor, even if I wanted it, which made it more complicated to understand it. Right? But what I realized is that that relationship had a profound effect on me. And so I started to do an inventory on it. I tried to find the areas of my life that that relationship affect affected my later relationships. And so the most helpful thing I can do today is just constantly bring my mind back to what is actually happening. Every time I feel uncomfortable, I'm just experiencing a form of anxiety. If you don't like that word, I'm sorry, audience, It's a very precise word. It's not fear. It is a vibration. It is a state of mind. It is a specific chemistry. And in that chemistry, that is where my negative emotions are triggered. It's where I get into negative thought loops. It's where I'm struggling. I'm not a happy camper.

[A]

Okay? So if you find yourself there, then what you take.

[B]

So the first thing is just to notice that, to practice over years, just notice that. When is it happening? Does it happen when you're on the elevator and you have to pee and all of a sudden your body is like signaling your brain, Motherfucker, I got to pee. You got to let the bladder go, right? It's not level 10 panic the way a child would feel being abandoned, right? It's not the death of a loved one type of anxiety. That's like level 10, it's level one, but it's enough. It's enough because it's a trigger. Remember, AA talks about this. They talk about it very shallow. They have one major descriptor. Halt, hungry, only hungry, angry, lonely and tired. The four triggers, but there's about 11,000 of them. I wrote about 200 of them down. Triggers that will trigger us. It's also thirsty. It's boredom. Look at kids. They're triggered into sheer unbelievable acting out behavior. If the boredom goes on too long. You're a father, you know that. We're the same way as adults. So we have this low level anxiety, some of us, high level anxiety that we've been carrying since we were fucking born. It doesn't go anywhere. It stays in the mind. It's part of the program until you remove it. So other than writing, other than breathing, I would say if you're physically capable, okay, you can always do breathing exercises that are not, you know, super like conscious, that make people uncomfortable. Just take long, slow, deep breaths through the nose. Make that a cycle of breath. Do three or four of them. More importantly, notice when you're holding your breath and, and try to notice that sensation. If you're physically capable, you have to exercise. The body is meant to move. It's going to signal you and your self esteem is affected. That sensory system that determines what is happening in both mind and body at the same time. If we are falling apart because of inactivity, it's impossible to have a relaxed chemistry, a relaxed nervous system in that state, I believe. So we have to do our best. We're meant to do that. That's how we're designed. Obviously there's people with injury or disease, they're dealing with something different that's outside of the scope of what I'm talking about is. But I think reading and studying philosophy, you know, a certain amount of that service work that has such a broad terminology, starting off with the people that are right in front of you, family members, your children, your spouse, your best friend, your roommate. What can I do to improve this person's existence? That's a very important practice because it spreads that into the community, right? And somebody has to be the catalyst for that. Especially in a very self centered society. Somebody has to say, okay, what little thing can I do? Is it a smile, is it a podcast? Brush our teeth, right? Like those are all positive things that we bring into society. So service isn't really mystical either because it's what we were designed to do. We are communal creatures. We are designed to live in tribes. We do have instinct in spite of any neuroscientist that might say that we don't. I think one of our instinct is to contribute something positive to our society when we start working on those things. That, in my opinion, is the beginning of the changing of our chemistry the way we want it to be, which is we want to be in a dopamine oxytocin state. We don't want to be in an adrenaline cortisol state with a tight diaphragm and constricted and everything. We're alert to every problem and obsessions that take off, and we're still right there in front of our own eyes. We still have addictions. No matter how long we're walking up the path, we're still carrying addiction with us. We can end that. We can end that if we just stay on it every day and practice, practice, practice.

[A]

So when. When we first met, you were pretty adamant on giving me this structured plan. Like, this is what you're going to do now. This is what you're going to do now. This is what you're going to do now.

[B]

You were wet, drunk. It's different today. There would be a lot more. This what I'm saying to you now. The cameras are not even here. It's much more liberal. It's not. You get more sneakers, you know, it's nothing. It's nothing specific. You are your own person now, right? If I would tell you one thing that's important is that for you, it's all about the discipline of showing up to meditation. You don't need me to tell you to work out.

[A]

No, I know, but what I'm saying to you is, is that. Do you. How important do you think structure and discipline is for the. For someone who is at the very beginning of their journey.

[B]

But it's a relative term. Structure and discipline to a newcomer is completely different to me and you. Part of our structures and disciplines are taking care of children, getting reading the books to go to bed. Structure and discipline is always a part of this human's life. Because we aren't entirely instinctual creatures. We're cerebral thinkers. It's not like we get up in the morning and a thing clicks and says, go eat. Go eat your bananas. Click. And then we got, you know, we have some instincts. We got to pee, we go to the bathroom. But we're creatures of habit. We repeat what we do. What brings us to a chemistry that's familiar. We become addicted to negative chemistry, adrenaline and cortisol. Because it's supportive. Adrenaline pumps up us. Pumps us up and makes us strong. Cor. Cortisol kills pain as examples. Dopamine for is an example. Is. Is the real hormone behind the neurotransmitter, behind the chase of addiction, right? So if. If we don't find it in natural ways, like breathing and writing and watching the sunset, at some point our stress and our anxiety, we're going to look for anything. If this was a thing that helped, we would just do that addictively. It probably doesn't do much, right? But the guy that figured out rolling cigarettes and taking a puff and getting nicotine into the system, fireworks, spread that around. Everybody buys into it. Alcohol spending. There's a possibility to be destructive in any thought or behavior process, and that's the danger of being human. So even if you had a wonderful childhood, you'd still have to be on guard to things that are entirely human. The fact of the matter is not many people had wonderful childhoods. Even the ones that think they do oftentimes aren't aware of the problems that they carry with them because raising a human is difficult. You're awake for 7 million minutes in the first 20 years. That's a lot of opportunity for shit to happen. Just your feelings can be traumatizing. The first time you felt shame. So, you know, feeling rejected, the chemistry and the anxiety of just existing requires work. So, you know, I know not to get too personal too fast. We're running out of time, and it's your show. But you brought up something to me the other night which I thought was fascinating, and I just. I wanted to just use that as an example, to bring all this nonsense that I'm saying home. Would you tell me what that is?

[A]

Yeah. No, that. I think for me, the, the.

[B]

The.

[A]

One of the, if not the most sort of prominent slash prevalent anxieties I have today that shows up not all the time, but, you know, a couple times a year that really grabs a hold of me is my fear of, of. Of getting sick. My fear of. Of, you know, getting some sort of terminal illness. That. And, and if I really thought, you know, and I have thought a lot about it, it's. For me, I don't even know if it's. It's fear of. Of mortality or death. It. It is more a fear of not being able to spend time with my wife and kids and be there to support and provide for. For them like I love to, to do, and so that, you know, being a burden on them because I'm. I'm sick And I think that does come from my father, because he was exactly that. But that is the number one fear and anxiety that shows up for me in my life that will take me out of the game.

[B]

I got good news for you. If you got rid of that, the mind would create a new one as a pattern and a habit. And maybe you could say it's a perfect design in evolution to keep your ass anxious enough so that you try. I don't know. It's a theory I have, right? Like, I don't even know that this iteration of the human anatomy, biology, chemistry could ever truly be free of everyday anxiety unless that was the renunciation and we just lived as monks and we just meditated all day. And even then, for us, because we're so patterned, we would find something. That's my bowl. I love my bowl, you know, so the first thing is that, just acknowledge that it's completely normal that you have that particular anxiety. Don't feel ashamed of it, don't stigmatize it, because you have an early childhood experience that was deep, devastatingly traumatic to you where someone you loved and needed and idealized died from an illness and saw it happen right in front of your face, correct?

[A]

No, I didn't see him die in front of my face. But he had you see him slowly. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Decline.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But I, I mean, yes. And I think the, the bigger piece of it is, is the, from a very young age, I was, I, I was witness to a number of catastrophic diabetic seizures that he had that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That were insanely traumatizing for me that

[B]

I, I, So let's, let's figure out the first thing. Okay. And help me when you say traumatizing, what specifically was traumatizing?

[A]

That I thought he was going to die because I was, I, I, he, he would start convulsing, foaming at the mouth, face plant blood. And I, and I remember I was at Disney World. I remember like it was yesterday. And he.

[B]

Can I just interrupt you second? Can you try something with me? It helps me. Can you try to maintain eye contact with me when you talk about this?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So I remember very clearly kneeling down on the ground. I was no older than five and we were at Disney World. A crowd started to form around us because he was convulsing on the ground, turning blue and foaming. And I was like, I remember being like, kneeling down and looking at him sideways because he was lying on the ground. And, and my thought was this, he's going to my father's Going to die. And I had that a number of times with him. So that. So I think that is ultimately what has.

[B]

So you have. It's. This one is not even a hard one, okay? This one comes out of the textbook. So you just have ptsd and it doesn't go away so easily. Especially if many years of your life were spent repressing all your feelings. They went nowhere. So now you might say that you did such a great job repressing your feelings that you had to create 21 years of space from that to even get to the point where you can begin a superficial conversation about these things. You haven't dived deeper, deep enough into the actual emotion, the one that will make you feel exactly like you felt when you were 5 years old. Like you're sitting with it right now where you can feel that same experience and you can learn to sit with it and maybe even have grief wash over you and. And be present with that and breathe and practice that for a number of years. It'll get better if you allow those feelings to pass. Plus, there's some thought processes involved here that need to be interrupted, because I don't know how long it takes for you to grieve your traumas to completion, but there's some thought processes that we have to work to interrupt, which is. The first one is you're now in your life fully aware of that anxiety when it emerges. You're now aware of a concept called mind control meditation. So when that thing emerges, the thing that's needed is for you to spend more time in meditation, to sit with those feelings, to explore them, to not react, to not act out, to not try to push them down, to not get busy, to just be with it and then write and explore. And I think it's also valuable to keep doing what you're doing, which is to teach this. Talk about it as if you're teaching it, because we learn through teaching. And it's a very deep dive that you have. You know, I'm not going to. Off camera. I'll talk to you about how you can use stoicism and spiritual bypassing, which deny feelings and are limited in their effectiveness, but sometimes they're necessary to prevent you from manifesting the very thing that you're afraid of. So the idea is, when these anxiety feelings pop up for you at ground zero, the first thing I would do is interrupt the thought. Don't fight it. Just stop it. Stop. I am okay. I am safe. I am healthy. I will not manifest injury, disease, death, failure, catastrophe, repeat. I Will not injure. I will not manifest. I will not manifest. I will not manifest. It's the opposite of these manifesting psychos that are out there that tell you you can manifest anything, right? Just say it in a positive form. It's the opposite. I will not manifest that as a. It doesn't matter if it works. What matters is you're telling yourself that you're willing not to do that. And then keep breathing. When you get some distance from that immediate panic effect, then have a plan already in action what you do to regulate your nervous system. Because all that's happened is you went into a sympathetic nervous system. So what do you do? Do you go to the gym? Well, what are you really doing in the gym? You're moving, you're breathing better for a fact. That's all you're really doing at the gym is you're going, I gotta move and I gotta breathe better. Can you do that in the corner of your room? Right.

[A]

How I'd like to wind this thing down because we, there was a lot of information for everybody. For me.

[B]

Play it slow, Play it slow.

[A]

Well, what I, what I think was very helpful for me is I ultimately feel like I just sat through a therapy session. Right. Like I did. And I'm. And, and, and I have, I'm a demotivational speaker. But I have leaned on you for years. When things come up in my life, I call you on my anniversary, I'm like, give me something. And the last two years you have said it's all about the breath to me.

[B]

For you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To where you're at, it's all about the breath. Because, because I think that you're stabilized and now you're just a regular everyday schmuck like the rest of us dealing with everyday schmuck problems. Hallelujah. Took you a long time. Welcome to the planet Earth. So now it's how do we move to the next stage? So the first thing is you got to control and regulate your nervous system. That's breathing. And whatever else you can do that's not addictive, destructive or harming, whatever else you could do. If cleaning the house gives you that, if doing this podcast, anything that helps you to relax your nervous system that's not harmful, non harm, very important direction and path, do it. That's it. So breath, it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Breathe more, try more. Find different kinds of breath. There's no breath masters. Anybody that says they're a breath master is a schmuck in my opinion. I ask all the doctors what the hell is the perfect breath? They laugh in my face. Right? It's, we're talking about respiration. It's not circulation. It's a totally different thing. There's a million problems with your breathing and mine too because there's a million problems in the body. We're asymmetrical, we got tension, the lower back hurts, you know, so the best, the best breath you can do right now is even it's not herky jerky. It doesn't resemble how our mind is. Optimal breathing for the mammal is through the nose, conditioning the air so you don't get a direct hit from the garbage that's in the air through the throat and through the lungs. Exhale. It's a muscular activity to go beyond say six expansion, retention, release. It's an incredible, just an incredible mechanism. And this is like the metronome that's telling you where the action is. It's right here.

[A]

We're going to finish on that. I think everybody listening. If you've made it this far along, I would imagine, send me your money. I would imagine that, that you're, you're extrapolating a few things. One, anxiety is real in everybody's life. Two, there's a, there's a, there's an opportunity to manage it and potentially control it through paying attention to your breath throughout the day. Not like in some breath work session necessarily throughout the day. There's an opportunity to control it seven days a week. And if you're able to be self aware enough to understand what triggers the anxiety and when that happens, there are a few things that you can do. You can start with breath. You can start, you can right, start.

[B]

It has to start with breath.

[A]

It has to start, start with it. Can't.

[B]

Not right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because holding your breath is just digging you into the hole and in a few minutes you're dead.

[A]

So you, you, you actually get a hold of your breath and you, and you pay attention to your breath. You can sit down and write about how you're feeling in the moment and actually use that experiences.

[B]

Some people pray, some people fidget, they start to clean. Some people exercise.

[A]

But I'm trying to, I'm trying to give a little system here, read a book.

[B]

I'm saying the same thing. I'm just saying there's more than one thing you could do. As long as you're breathing while you're reading, breathing while you're cleaning, breathing while you're folding laundry, just breathe. Start with that.

[A]

And then lastly, meditation.

[B]

Well, meditation increases what you were doing in the breath. Because now what you're trying to do is pay attention to the thoughts and lightly deflect or push something away or bring something new and create that tranquility in the mind, lowering the activity not to zero thought, but more like to one thought, which is the breath. Come back to something that's grounded and present for the purpose of regulating the nervous system, not to live in as an existence. You'll be eaten by a dinosaur if you don't get up and do something.

[A]

Ladies and gentlemen, that was a lot. And I. There's obviously a reason why Marcus has played a big role in my life. The guy just, I believe, is probably a little crazy. I know he's a little crazy.

[B]

We not be. We're spinning on a rock at 17,000 miles per hour, corkscrewing around the Milky Way in an endless, vast cosmos. We're all headed towards death. How can we not be a little wacky? Come on.

[A]

But, but there is. There is true genius in, in, in what he has to say and the way he walks through life and the way he thinks about life and how he expresses it. And he's helped lots and lots and lots of people. And I believe that if you've been on this podcast or you've listened this far along about an hour and change, you've taken something from this. And as simple as I have potentially been holding my breath unknowingly or unaware of the fact that I've been holding my breath just as I walk through

[B]

the day for your whole life.

[A]

Like, like legit.

[B]

Since you were a little kid.

[A]

And so that one piece alone, I'm

[B]

like the doctor that just slapped you on your ass when you were born so you would take a breath. So do me a favor, listen to it again.

[A]

It would, it would, it would. It would mean the world to me is if you share the podcast with someone who you think could use it, friend, family member, husband, wife, brother, son, whatever. Share the podcast. That's the only rent that I ask you to actually pay. And if you're feeling super generous, hit that subscribe button. Write us a five star review and a review and a five star rating. And, and, and, and if you have any questions, don't do it.

[B]

We know where you live.

[A]

If you have any questions or concerns, just comment below. I read them and respond. Comment below. Until the next one, y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Peace.